I'm not following. Doc arrived in the past, and then when they arrived in the future together Marty figured out why Doc came to that year in the first place... which was to track down Marty's grandma.
Edit: How the hell did this post wind up in this thread!? This belongs in the "Watched all five episodes, shook my head thread" and I legitimately have no clue how it got here. I know I didn't have this topic open at all.
Edit 2: Oh, they've been merged...which means I just deleted this for nothing. Oh well.
I'm not following. Doc arrived in the past, and then when they arrived in the future together Marty figured out why Doc came to that year in the first place... which was to track down Marty's grandma.
Doc came back in Episode 4 because he looked at the newspaper clipping Marty gave him in 1931. If THAT had been when he came back for the genealogy project, then there's no way he could have gotten a picture of Trixie in the first place. You see, when Doc reappears he asks what Marty was doing in 1931, implying that he doesn't remember the events from the first two episodes. But then when he gives Marty the book and Marty says "So that's why you went to 1931," Doc says yes, implying that he DOES remember the first two episodes.
I don't think Doc ran into and if he did learn the real identity of Trixie Trotter in the first two, and he wouldn't know why Marty would still be in 1931, as the events in this one took a bit of time after the first two episodes.
then doesn't that completely override the events of the first episode? Marty never goes to Docs, never has to rescue the blueprints from Biff, never gets the Delorean...never goes back in time to save Doc from a situation Doc doesn't even seem to remember.....
Concerning point 1: I think if Doc did notice, he wouldn't mention anything. Besdies, as Doc himself noted, he remembered Marty being taller.
Concerning point 2: Think about it. Young Emmett didn't know that Carl Sagan owned a futuristic car. All he knew about Sagan was that he was an older man who tried to give him a business proposition then disappeared and was never seen again. He would think nothing of it and might even forget all about him in the excitement of the Expo.
Concerning point 3: That timeline erased all time travels because it was Doc himself whose timeline was rewritten extensively enough to actually erase him from existance. Marty was presumably saved because he was in the DeLorean and for some reason it took longer for time to catch up with him than with Einstein and Doc. Also, I've seen people theorize that the DeLorean survived because it was the temporal duplicate. The 1931 time trips remain intact because they are the cause of this timeline. If they disappeared, Marty would have jumped forward into the Twin Pine timeline he left in the first movie!
When Doc reappears in the Delorean in 1931, shortly after Edna drives off in the other Delorean, Marty greets him as the Doc he knows, and who disappeared in Ep. 2 and has now returned. But technically, this is a different version of Doc, from the new timeline caused by Marty's actions in 1931. The Doc who reappears is the future self of the younger Emmett Brown who dated Edna for two months, and who befriended Marty (in the guise of 'Michael Corleone'), and to whom Marty gave the newspaper clipping...he clearly remembers meeting Marty in 1931 as a teenager. In fact, it seems that he travelled back to '31 to meet Marty simply because he remembered him being there. Which begs the question, exactly what is this Doc's story, and what does he remember?
Does he remember the events of Ep 1 and 2? Does he remember assuming the identity of Carl Sagan, and of being accused of being the speakeasy arsonist?
Its pretty obvious that he has experianced the events of the first 3 films, and he was trapped in the Old West and had kids with Clara...but seeing as he was living in the present, is it possible that the last scene of BTTF3 would have been slightly different, with Doc, Clara and the kids staying rather than flying off in the train? Also, the Delorean he arrives in, its obviously not the one Marty has been travelling in for the entirety of the Game (Edna has that one)...so is it ALSO a temporal duplicate he picked up from 2025, albeit in the new timeline? Or in the new timeline, did the original Delorean not get destroyed on the train tracks?
Also, if Doc was around in the new timeline all along, why did Marty (or at any rate, the Marty of the new timeline) travel back to 1931? Wouldn't he wonder why the Delorean suddenly popped up outside Doc's garage, when it was supposed to be with Doc? Wouldn't he wonder how Doc was supposedly in 1931, when he was in 1986 with Clara and the kids all along? More to the point, what does this new Doc remember about Marty's disappearance on May 14th 1986?
Also going by memory here...
Didn't Doc ask Marty what he was doing in 1931?
So it looks like he doesn't remember being rescued by Marty.
A further indication that the time line now is seriously messed up.
But no worries, it is just a small paradox, the effects will probably only destroy this galaxy
It's possible that Doc might've wondered what Marty was doing back in 1931, figuring that everything was already resolved. Because, remember, when Marty goes back to 1931 a third time - he came with CB-Doc. CB-Doc, of course, doesn't exist in "normal" Doc's timeline - so it's possible that, from his timeline's perspective, Marty just disappeared from 1986.
Still can't figure out what Edna's status would be, from that timeline's perspective - since Hill Valley still exists.
When the last version of Doc comes he doesn't do anything to alter Edna's actions. But Edna jumps past and burns Hill Valley, which would be the case even if Doc didn't come. So how come this new Doc came from a future Hill Valley when it was burned down by Edna?
There is something I'm curious about. If Doc arrived from 1986 after Edna went back to 1876, then he would have arrived from a hill Valley which doesn't exist. I know there is a time ripple effect, but wouldn't that only be in effect if Edna left after Doc arrived in 1931? Confused. Also I don't understand how Doc and Marty both had about 1 hour by Doc's estimations, before changes happened to them? Doc is much older than Marty so shouldn't Doc have less time?
I was under the impression that Doc left 1986 just barely in time before Edna's 1800s chain reaction. As for the ripple effect, in theory doesn't that mean that after Edna has torched the town the ripple is moving forward in time and it hasn't fully reached the future yet hence why Doc and Marty still exist.
As for what you said about having Doc having less time, STOP NITPICKING! At the end of the day Doc has made a scientific estimation so what he says isn't necessarily 100% accurate! Hence the word ESTIMATE!
I actually believe Doc arrived in 1931 BEFORE Edna went back to 1876...
Here's what I think the sequence of events are...
Edna steals the Delorean and runs over FCB Doc. She then drives off, being chased by Officer Parker. At the same time, Emmett has irrevocably decided to dedicate his life to science, and there is a ZERO probability of his hooking up with Edna...so the FCB timeline will never happen; thus, FCB Doc fades from existence, as his timeline is now irrevocably erased. The ripple effect has moved forward through time, instantaneously transforming FCB 1986 into the new 1986 (where Doc is living in the present, and runs his father's foundation). In this new 1986, on May 14th, Doc, after receiving the Key to the City, reads the newspaper fragment he remembers receiving in 1931 on the day of the Expo. He realises it was Marty and that he's in 1931, so he decides to go back to that date, shortly after he remembers receiving the paper...and meets Marty.
Now Doc has arrived from a future where all is well, but he arrives at a point in the past on this timeline where Edna is just moments away from jumping back to the past. Just after Doc reunites with Marty, Edna makes the jump back into the past. Shortly after, Officer Parker claims he saw her disappear...and instantly, Marty and Doc are shifted to the new timeline, where Hill Valley no longer exists.
So basically, until the precise moment Edna hits 88 miles per hour on the Delorean, Hill Valley still exists, in both 1931 and 1986...and Doc returned to 1931 minutes before Edna hit 88...
I actually believe Doc arrived in 1931 BEFORE Edna went back to 1876...
Here's what I think the sequence of events are...
Edna steals the Delorean and runs over FCB Doc. She then drives off, being chased by Officer Parker. At the same time, Emmett has irrevocably decided to dedicate his life to science, and there is a ZERO probability of his hooking up with Edna...so the FCB timeline will never happen; thus, FCB Doc fades from existence, as his timeline is now irrevocably erased. The ripple effect has moved forward through time, instantaneously transforming FCB 1986 into the new 1986 (where Doc is living in the present, and runs his father's foundation). In this new 1986, on May 14th, Doc, after receiving the Key to the City, reads the newspaper fragment he remembers receiving in 1931 on the day of the Expo. He realises it was Marty and that he's in 1931, so he decides to go back to that date, shortly after he remembers receiving the paper...and meets Marty.
Now Doc has arrived from a future where all is well, but he arrives at a point in the past on this timeline where Edna is just moments away from jumping back to the past. Just after Doc reunites with Marty, Edna makes the jump back into the past. Shortly after, Officer Parker claims he saw her disappear...and instantly, Marty and Doc are shifted to the new timeline, where Hill Valley no longer exists.
So basically, until the precise moment Edna hits 88 miles per hour on the Delorean, Hill Valley still exists, in both 1931 and 1986...and Doc returned to 1931 minutes before Edna hit 88...
That sounds pretty plausible, and I love the tags to this thread, particularly the magic one.
But edna still would have faded out cos she never went back in time in that timeline.
Not neccesarily. If you allow for the possibility that Edna, Marty, and Doc might actually exist in the "Haysville" timeline (I know Doc says that they have only an hour before everything goes to hell, but he also thought that meeting your younger self could be catastrophic) Edna might've gone back in time, and maybe driven out all the way to Hill Valley.
It's possible that Doc might've wondered what Marty was doing back in 1931, figuring that everything was already resolved. Because, remember, when Marty goes back to 1931 a third time - he came with CB-Doc. CB-Doc, of course, doesn't exist in "normal" Doc's timeline - so it's possible that, from his timeline's perspective, Marty just disappeared from 1986.
Still can't figure out what Edna's status would be, from that timeline's perspective - since Hill Valley still exists.
Hmm...that's interesting.
So what you're suggesting, is that even in this new timeline, Doc remembers going back to 1931, assuming the identity of Carl Sagan, and getting arrested for the speakeasy fire. He then remembers Marty coming and enlisting the aid of his younger self to rescue him, visiting the Tannen Mob timeline in 1986, witnessing the defeat of Kid Tannen by his younger self and Edna (which he would remember as having participated in as a teenager anyway)...and then returning to 1986. Except that in his case, he safely makes it back to '86 along with Marty.
So then what does he remember happening? Does he just remember going home, or perhaps waiting for the whole Key to the city ceremony to start? And what about Marty...does he just disappear from 1986 at the time when he left the FCB 1986, and reappear in 1931 in the other Delorean along with FCB Brown...does Marty even make it back to 1986 in the first place along with Doc when leaving 1931 after Kid Tannen's arrest?
So what you're suggesting, is that even in this new timeline, Doc remembers going back to 1931, assuming the identity of Carl Sagan, and getting arrested for the speakeasy fire. He then remembers Marty coming and enlisting the aid of his younger self to rescue him, visiting the Tannen Mob timeline in 1986, witnessing the defeat of Kid Tannen by his younger self and Edna (which he would remember as having participated in as a teenager anyway)...and then returning to 1986. Except that in his case, he safely makes it back to '86 along with Marty.
So then what does he remember happening? Does he just remember going home, or perhaps waiting for the whole Key to the city ceremony to start? And what about Marty...does he just disappear from 1986 at the time when he left the FCB 1986, and reappear in 1931 in the other Delorean along with FCB Brown...does Marty even make it back to 1986 in the first place along with Doc when leaving 1931 after Kid Tannen's arrest?
I think that when the Delorean showed up in the new 1986, it was just Doc and Einstein, and Marty might've disappeared. Then he remembers that he needs to get the key to the city so that he can see 1931 Marty's message, (and possibly suspects that it IS the same Marty) and that takes priority so that Marty would have a message to give to young Emmett.
When the last version of Doc comes he doesn't do anything to alter Edna's actions. But Edna jumps past and burns Hill Valley, which would be the case even if Doc didn't come. So how come this new Doc came from a future Hill Valley when it was burned down by Edna?
Most likely, Edna didn't time travel to 1876 until AFTER Doc came back to 1931. We don't know how far from the school Edna drove before she time traveled.
I was under the impression that Doc left 1986 just barely in time before Edna's 1800s chain reaction. As for the ripple effect, in theory doesn't that mean that after Edna has torched the town the ripple is moving forward in time and it hasn't fully reached the future yet hence why Doc and Marty still exist.
As for what you said about having Doc having less time, STOP NITPICKING! At the end of the day Doc has made a scientific estimation so what he says isn't necessarily 100% accurate! Hence the word ESTIMATE!
sorry guess I was nitpicking. Yes I think it's plausible that as Edna was being chased by Danny Parker, Doc ended up arriving just before Edna left. Having said that even if the time ripple caught up with Marty and Doc, they could still exist. The Mcfly's and Brown's didn't arrive in Hill Valley till after 1876. Or maybe without Hill valley, they are just never born because their ancestors met somebody else? Hmm who knows.
sorry guess I was nitpicking. Yes I think it's plausible that as Edna was being chased by Danny Parker, Doc ended up arriving just before Edna left. Having said that even if the time ripple caught up with Marty and Doc, they could still exist. The Mcfly's and Brown's didn't arrive in Hill Valley till after 1876. Or maybe without Hill valley, they are just never born because their ancestors met somebody else? Hmm who knows.
IIRC, when you talk to Doc he estimated that they had about 1 hour to go back and stop Edna before the ripple effect would catch up to them.
Good parts...bad parts...and illogical parts. Consider this a request for someone to possibly explain the illogical ones.
Ok, in order:
Purpose of the CGI version of BTTF 1 with the "you're gonna see some serious..." and the whole nine? Dream sequence? Doc fading out was not relevant to the game, in other words?
Pretty much. Introduce the player to the basic controls and inventory system, with a twisted version of a famous scene.
[*]Einstein shows up in a DeLorean. How'd he get in it? Better question: why did Doc take Einstein in the first place instead of leaving him with Clara and the kids given later questions?
*shrug* I guess when you're loose enough with time travel to use it for a photo for a graduation present, you're also loose enough to let your dog come along.
[*]Why did Einstein take Edna's shoe? For what purpose?
He's a dog.
[*]If Edna Strickland was an arsonist - a criminal act, BTW - then why did James Strickland turn out to be so righteous?
One, relatives aren't identical. Two, we don't know that Vice Principal Strickland also wasn't doing illegal things he considered right.
[*]Doc's scientific future hinges on a tech expo that happens in the past. HIs father, the judge, disapproves. The reconciliation only happened when Marty went back and played mediator. So doesn't that basically mean that the movie could never have happened because the father would not have allowed the work/tech expo success? <<< This one REALLY gets me
You assume that without Marty there, Doc lets his father stop him. I get the picture that without Marty around, he says "Get out of my life, old man!" and goes on with his demonstration.
[*]If we're looking at this whole "time lag" and " timeline decay" and all of this, doesn't that mean that the moment Edna disappeared from Parker's sight, Hill Valley would have disappeared?
Hmm? The whole point of the lag/decay is that changes don't happen instantaneously.
[*]If Edna burned down the saloon before Marty had a chance to meet Buford and spill spittle on him, doesn't that mean he would not have been near hanged, never saved by Doc, etc?
Or maybe it happened in the next town over. This goes for the next few questions I've cut, too. The Hill Valley-less timeline is too big an unknown to say much about.
[*]Edna had the blacksmith sign and Saloon sign. Given they're wood, wouldn't they have burned away, too?
I kind of wondered if she tried to take it as a trophy. Or it just happened to be some of the small percentage of stuff that didn't turn completely to ash. Fell away during building collapse or whatever.
[*]In BTTF3, Doc said " I set myself up as a blacksmith as a front while I attempted to repair the damage to the time circuits." Him setting up as a blacksmith implies that there wasn't one prior to his arrival. So where'd Edna get the sign from?
I figure Doc took over a building used by another blacksmith some time before 1885.
[*]If the town burned down in the 1870's where'd William get his vehicle from in 1931?
Unless the vehicle was manufactured in Hill Valley, doesn't seem like much of a problem.
[*]The changes in the storyline by the beginning of Episode 5 would seem to indicate that the Doc that was in prison in the first episode should have reappeared, and still in prison. That didn't happen...why not?
Probably the whole ripple thing. Same reason Citizen Brown was still around.
I again think there are two possibilities with regards to why regular Doc didn't 'ripple back' into prison...
Firstly, you forget that Doc WAS freed by Marty in June 1931...why would he 'ripple' back into prison in October 1931...
Also, if you assume that the regular Doc in Episode 5 was a totally new version of Doc who WASN'T the same one in Episodes 1 and 2, then this is pretty much a moot point.
I dunno...watching the episode at first, it seemed to me that this new Doc didn't remember the events of Episode 1 and 2...hence, Marty tries to explain that he was in jail and stuff like that...but in the end of the episode, he claims he went to 1931 to research Marty's family tree...a question Marty had asked Doc in Episode 2, implying that they ARE the same version...
But they aren't the same version! :rolleyes:
Doc A the original character from the films vanishes from existence, only to be later replaced by Doc A.1. Now Doc A.1 is the exact same as A except that A.1 has a better relationship with his father. Do you get it now?! :rolleyes:
[*]Why did Einstein take Edna's shoe? For what purpose?
He's a dog.
Yes that's true but Einstein isn't a stupid dog. Personally I think he tried stopping Edna burning down the speakeasy by biting her, and he ran away when Doc was captured and hid in the car. It also explains why he growls at her everytime he sees her because of the fact he knows what an evil woman she really is! The fact he took a shoe back to the future was just pure luck for Doc.
[*]If the town burned down in the 1870's where'd William get his vehicle from in 1931?
That's a stupid question! Hill Valley wasn't the only town around and it's obvious that William was just passing through to go somewhere else. So in answer to that question he got his vehicle from another town!
[*]If Edna Strickland was an arsonist - a criminal act, BTW - then why did James Strickland turn out to be so righteous?
Righteous?! In Bttf part 2 he almost shot Marty point blank with a shotgun in an alternate timeline! Also later in part 2 he starts reading what he calls sports statistics, well imagine if it really was the sports statistics he'd probably do what Biff did! On the other hand of course no 2 people are the same and James has always been on the side of enforcement.
But they aren't the same version! :rolleyes:
Doc A the original character from the films vanishes from existence, only to be later replaced by Doc A.1. Now Doc A.1 is the exact same as A except that A.1 has a better relationship with his father. Do you get it now?! :rolleyes:
I think having a better relationship (or having one) helps Doc out.
But they aren't the same version! :rolleyes:
Doc A the original character from the films vanishes from existence, only to be later replaced by Doc A.1. Now Doc A.1 is the exact same as A except that A.1 has a better relationship with his father. Do you get it now?! :rolleyes:
That's what I thought too. On the surface, everything seems to point to that. Then again, Doc does mention a previous trip to 1931 to research Marty's family history at the end of Episode 5...so it COULD possibly be the one which results in his being imprisoned as the speakeasy arsonist.
The strongest point in favor of it being another version of Doc is that he has a different Delorean, allowing his and Edna's Delorean to both exist (at least temporarily). The first Delorean was a temporal duplicate of the original, which belonged to the original Doc from the films, and is later repaired by FCB Doc before being stolen by Edna...the second Delorean belongs to the new Doc (its origins are unknown, though its clearly a distinct entity from the first).
Again, the thing I'm most curious about is, if this new Doc isn't the same as the one from the first 2 episodes, then what does he remember about Marty's disappearance in 1986. Does he simply remember Marty disappearing? If the Delorean showed up outside his garage in Episode 1, then didn't the new Doc notice it and wonder where it came from? If Doc lived in '86 then wouldn't the Marty of this timeline wonder why the hell did the Delorean suddenly pop up with a message that Doc is trapped in the past?
That's what I thought too. On the surface, everything seems to point to that. Then again, Doc does mention a previous trip to 1931 to research Marty's family history at the end of Episode 5...so it COULD possibly be the one which results in his being imprisoned as the speakeasy arsonist.
Like I said it's the same Doc except he has had a better relationship with his dad, that and the fact that this time Marty gave him the piece of paper to read later in the future. Which he then did and realised Marty was stuck in the past. The events of the films still happened but Doc knew in the back of his mind never to read that information until 86.
The strongest point in favor of it being another version of Doc is that he has a different Delorean, allowing his and Edna's Delorean to both exist (at least temporarily). The first Delorean was a temporal duplicate of the original, which belonged to the original Doc from the films, and is later repaired by FCB Doc before being stolen by Edna...the second Delorean belongs to the new Doc (its origins are unknown, though its clearly a distinct entity from the first).
Doc probably just built another one seeing as he has the plans for it.
Again, the thing I'm most curious about is, if this new Doc isn't the same as the one from the first 2 episodes, then what does he remember about Marty's disappearance in 1986. Does he simply remember Marty disappearing? If the Delorean showed up outside his garage in Episode 1, then didn't the new Doc notice it and wonder where it came from? If Doc lived in '86 then wouldn't the Marty of this timeline wonder why the hell did the Delorean suddenly pop up with a message that Doc is trapped in the past?
The strongest point in favor of it being another version of Doc is that he has a different Delorean, allowing his and Edna's Delorean to both exist (at least temporarily). The first Delorean was a temporal duplicate of the original, which belonged to the original Doc from the films, and is later repaired by FCB Doc before being stolen by Edna...the second Delorean belongs to the new Doc (its origins are unknown, though its clearly a distinct entity from the first).
This isn't the first I've heard this theory, but I'm unclear why the one Doc shows up in in episode 5 can't also be the temporal duplicate used by Edna. However, the one Doc is using is the revised fate of said DeLorean, which is why Edna's was fading away.
Again, the thing I'm most curious about is, if this new Doc isn't the same as the one from the first 2 episodes, then what does he remember about Marty's disappearance in 1986. Does he simply remember Marty disappearing? If the Delorean showed up outside his garage in Episode 1, then didn't the new Doc notice it and wonder where it came from? If Doc lived in '86 then wouldn't the Marty of this timeline wonder why the hell did the Delorean suddenly pop up with a message that Doc is trapped in the past?
Here's what I've heard suggested, and sounds fairly plausible to me: This current version of Doc remembers most of the events from the first two episodes. However, from his point of view, he did not disappear, so he and Marty arrived back in 1986 safely. It's therefore curious to him when he realizes that apparently Marty is back in 1931.
I guess it could be attributed to the changes in the timeline, but it's probably because :
- They didn't model the exterior of his garage and used Lyon Estates instead.
- The real exterior is a bit "industrial" and might not look very good if done exactly the same, so they used this instead because it makes for a better environment.
I guess it could be attributed to the changes in the timeline, but it's probably because :
- They didn't model the exterior of his garage and used Lyon Estates instead.
- The real exterior is a bit "industrial" and might not look very good if done exactly the same, so they used this instead because it makes for a better environment.
My money is on the 1st point.
And it would cost more money to design a place that is only used for one part.
Didn't Doc say that he had to manage his father's property? So maybe that's why it's in a different location. But what's strange is that his house number, is the same as his garage number in 1955. Telltale kinda messed up a lot of stuff in this game, and created dozens of paradoxes and closed loops, but what can we do?
Didn't Doc say that he had to manage his father's property? So maybe that's why it's in a different location. But what's strange is that his house number, is the same as his garage number in 1955. Telltale kinda messed up a lot of stuff in this game, and created dozens of paradoxes and closed loops, but what can we do?
This isn't the first I've heard this theory, but I'm unclear why the one Doc shows up in in episode 5 can't also be the temporal duplicate used by Edna. However, the one Doc is using is the revised fate of said DeLorean, which is why Edna's was fading away.
Here's what I've heard suggested, and sounds fairly plausible to me: This current version of Doc remembers most of the events from the first two episodes. However, from his point of view, he did not disappear, so he and Marty arrived back in 1986 safely. It's therefore curious to him when he realizes that apparently Marty is back in 1931.
So, from his POV, does Marty just disappear from 1986 when they return (after the arrest of Kid Tannen)? If Marty (his timeline's version) did return to 1986, then the only explanation is that he disappeared at the time 'our' Marty leaves FCB 1986? Or could it be that Marty disappears from the Delorean when Doc returns to 1986, just like, from Marty's POV, it is Doc who disappears...
One thing is clear, if the new Doc was travelling with Marty in Episodes 1 and 2, then while in 1931 during the first two eps, he definetly still had the memories of Lone Pine Doc (as, at this point of time, he doesn't remember meeting Marty or Edna in the past)...then again, I suppose this is similar to LP Marty having TP Marty's memories during the first trip to 1955...
I dunno, it certainly was in the same location as Doc's abandoned garage at the start of Episode 1, because Marty recognises it and his first reaction is that the sale of the estate is still on...
This isn't the first I've heard this theory, but I'm unclear why the one Doc shows up in in episode 5 can't also be the temporal duplicate used by Edna. However, the one Doc is using is the revised fate of said DeLorean, which is why Edna's was fading away.
The temporal DeLorean started braking down after Episode 3 simply because Doc never invented it, due to young Emmett's path being changed! It started slowly malfunctioning out of existence just like Marty did in Bttf1. This is also why in the later episodes when FCB keeps testing it the time circuits aren't working properly, and when Edna steals it it's apparent that it's starting to fall apart. I see what you're getting at but where would the same Delorean come from? There's a bit in episode 2 when Marty drives past himself in the Delorean going the other way. But if Edna drove away in it at the expo, and more importantly in the future Marty is going to drive it to 1931, where is Doc going to find it? Nah I think Doc just built another time machine it makes more sense to me.
Comments
Edit 2: Oh, they've been merged...which means I just deleted this for nothing. Oh well.
Doc came back in Episode 4 because he looked at the newspaper clipping Marty gave him in 1931. If THAT had been when he came back for the genealogy project, then there's no way he could have gotten a picture of Trixie in the first place. You see, when Doc reappears he asks what Marty was doing in 1931, implying that he doesn't remember the events from the first two episodes. But then when he gives Marty the book and Marty says "So that's why you went to 1931," Doc says yes, implying that he DOES remember the first two episodes.
Concerning point 2: Think about it. Young Emmett didn't know that Carl Sagan owned a futuristic car. All he knew about Sagan was that he was an older man who tried to give him a business proposition then disappeared and was never seen again. He would think nothing of it and might even forget all about him in the excitement of the Expo.
Concerning point 3: That timeline erased all time travels because it was Doc himself whose timeline was rewritten extensively enough to actually erase him from existance. Marty was presumably saved because he was in the DeLorean and for some reason it took longer for time to catch up with him than with Einstein and Doc. Also, I've seen people theorize that the DeLorean survived because it was the temporal duplicate. The 1931 time trips remain intact because they are the cause of this timeline. If they disappeared, Marty would have jumped forward into the Twin Pine timeline he left in the first movie!
Does he remember the events of Ep 1 and 2? Does he remember assuming the identity of Carl Sagan, and of being accused of being the speakeasy arsonist?
Its pretty obvious that he has experianced the events of the first 3 films, and he was trapped in the Old West and had kids with Clara...but seeing as he was living in the present, is it possible that the last scene of BTTF3 would have been slightly different, with Doc, Clara and the kids staying rather than flying off in the train? Also, the Delorean he arrives in, its obviously not the one Marty has been travelling in for the entirety of the Game (Edna has that one)...so is it ALSO a temporal duplicate he picked up from 2025, albeit in the new timeline? Or in the new timeline, did the original Delorean not get destroyed on the train tracks?
Also, if Doc was around in the new timeline all along, why did Marty (or at any rate, the Marty of the new timeline) travel back to 1931? Wouldn't he wonder why the Delorean suddenly popped up outside Doc's garage, when it was supposed to be with Doc? Wouldn't he wonder how Doc was supposedly in 1931, when he was in 1986 with Clara and the kids all along? More to the point, what does this new Doc remember about Marty's disappearance on May 14th 1986?
Didn't Doc ask Marty what he was doing in 1931?
So it looks like he doesn't remember being rescued by Marty.
A further indication that the time line now is seriously messed up.
But no worries, it is just a small paradox, the effects will probably only destroy this galaxy
Still can't figure out what Edna's status would be, from that timeline's perspective - since Hill Valley still exists.
As for what you said about having Doc having less time, STOP NITPICKING! At the end of the day Doc has made a scientific estimation so what he says isn't necessarily 100% accurate! Hence the word ESTIMATE!
Here's what I think the sequence of events are...
Edna steals the Delorean and runs over FCB Doc. She then drives off, being chased by Officer Parker. At the same time, Emmett has irrevocably decided to dedicate his life to science, and there is a ZERO probability of his hooking up with Edna...so the FCB timeline will never happen; thus, FCB Doc fades from existence, as his timeline is now irrevocably erased. The ripple effect has moved forward through time, instantaneously transforming FCB 1986 into the new 1986 (where Doc is living in the present, and runs his father's foundation). In this new 1986, on May 14th, Doc, after receiving the Key to the City, reads the newspaper fragment he remembers receiving in 1931 on the day of the Expo. He realises it was Marty and that he's in 1931, so he decides to go back to that date, shortly after he remembers receiving the paper...and meets Marty.
Now Doc has arrived from a future where all is well, but he arrives at a point in the past on this timeline where Edna is just moments away from jumping back to the past. Just after Doc reunites with Marty, Edna makes the jump back into the past. Shortly after, Officer Parker claims he saw her disappear...and instantly, Marty and Doc are shifted to the new timeline, where Hill Valley no longer exists.
So basically, until the precise moment Edna hits 88 miles per hour on the Delorean, Hill Valley still exists, in both 1931 and 1986...and Doc returned to 1931 minutes before Edna hit 88...
That sounds pretty plausible, and I love the tags to this thread, particularly the magic one.
Not neccesarily. If you allow for the possibility that Edna, Marty, and Doc might actually exist in the "Haysville" timeline (I know Doc says that they have only an hour before everything goes to hell, but he also thought that meeting your younger self could be catastrophic) Edna might've gone back in time, and maybe driven out all the way to Hill Valley.
Hmm...that's interesting.
So what you're suggesting, is that even in this new timeline, Doc remembers going back to 1931, assuming the identity of Carl Sagan, and getting arrested for the speakeasy fire. He then remembers Marty coming and enlisting the aid of his younger self to rescue him, visiting the Tannen Mob timeline in 1986, witnessing the defeat of Kid Tannen by his younger self and Edna (which he would remember as having participated in as a teenager anyway)...and then returning to 1986. Except that in his case, he safely makes it back to '86 along with Marty.
So then what does he remember happening? Does he just remember going home, or perhaps waiting for the whole Key to the city ceremony to start? And what about Marty...does he just disappear from 1986 at the time when he left the FCB 1986, and reappear in 1931 in the other Delorean along with FCB Brown...does Marty even make it back to 1986 in the first place along with Doc when leaving 1931 after Kid Tannen's arrest?
I think that when the Delorean showed up in the new 1986, it was just Doc and Einstein, and Marty might've disappeared. Then he remembers that he needs to get the key to the city so that he can see 1931 Marty's message, (and possibly suspects that it IS the same Marty) and that takes priority so that Marty would have a message to give to young Emmett.
Most likely, Edna didn't time travel to 1876 until AFTER Doc came back to 1931. We don't know how far from the school Edna drove before she time traveled.
IIRC, when you talk to Doc he estimated that they had about 1 hour to go back and stop Edna before the ripple effect would catch up to them.
Though he didn't sound too sure about the whole thing.
Firstly, you forget that Doc WAS freed by Marty in June 1931...why would he 'ripple' back into prison in October 1931...
Also, if you assume that the regular Doc in Episode 5 was a totally new version of Doc who WASN'T the same one in Episodes 1 and 2, then this is pretty much a moot point.
I dunno...watching the episode at first, it seemed to me that this new Doc didn't remember the events of Episode 1 and 2...hence, Marty tries to explain that he was in jail and stuff like that...but in the end of the episode, he claims he went to 1931 to research Marty's family tree...a question Marty had asked Doc in Episode 2, implying that they ARE the same version...
Doc A the original character from the films vanishes from existence, only to be later replaced by Doc A.1. Now Doc A.1 is the exact same as A except that A.1 has a better relationship with his father. Do you get it now?! :rolleyes:
Yes that's true but Einstein isn't a stupid dog. Personally I think he tried stopping Edna burning down the speakeasy by biting her, and he ran away when Doc was captured and hid in the car. It also explains why he growls at her everytime he sees her because of the fact he knows what an evil woman she really is! The fact he took a shoe back to the future was just pure luck for Doc.
That's a stupid question! Hill Valley wasn't the only town around and it's obvious that William was just passing through to go somewhere else. So in answer to that question he got his vehicle from another town!
Righteous?! In Bttf part 2 he almost shot Marty point blank with a shotgun in an alternate timeline! Also later in part 2 he starts reading what he calls sports statistics, well imagine if it really was the sports statistics he'd probably do what Biff did! On the other hand of course no 2 people are the same and James has always been on the side of enforcement.
I think having a better relationship (or having one) helps Doc out.
Like I said it's the same Doc except he has had a better relationship with his dad, that and the fact that this time Marty gave him the piece of paper to read later in the future. Which he then did and realised Marty was stuck in the past. The events of the films still happened but Doc knew in the back of his mind never to read that information until 86.
Doc probably just built another one seeing as he has the plans for it.
You're not thinking fourth dimensionally
Doc's garage should be in John F. Kennedy Drive (see the photo)
IN Game...
They just came back to the future.
And went to Doc's garage
But it look like Doc's garage is in Lyon Estates now!
Sorry, my english is very bad!
- They didn't model the exterior of his garage and used Lyon Estates instead.
- The real exterior is a bit "industrial" and might not look very good if done exactly the same, so they used this instead because it makes for a better environment.
My money is on the 1st point.
And it would cost more money to design a place that is only used for one part.
I think that was the point though.
But, obviously they left. And a tree was placed on the street.
So, from his POV, does Marty just disappear from 1986 when they return (after the arrest of Kid Tannen)? If Marty (his timeline's version) did return to 1986, then the only explanation is that he disappeared at the time 'our' Marty leaves FCB 1986? Or could it be that Marty disappears from the Delorean when Doc returns to 1986, just like, from Marty's POV, it is Doc who disappears...
One thing is clear, if the new Doc was travelling with Marty in Episodes 1 and 2, then while in 1931 during the first two eps, he definetly still had the memories of Lone Pine Doc (as, at this point of time, he doesn't remember meeting Marty or Edna in the past)...then again, I suppose this is similar to LP Marty having TP Marty's memories during the first trip to 1955...
The temporal DeLorean started braking down after Episode 3 simply because Doc never invented it, due to young Emmett's path being changed! It started slowly malfunctioning out of existence just like Marty did in Bttf1. This is also why in the later episodes when FCB keeps testing it the time circuits aren't working properly, and when Edna steals it it's apparent that it's starting to fall apart. I see what you're getting at but where would the same Delorean come from? There's a bit in episode 2 when Marty drives past himself in the Delorean going the other way. But if Edna drove away in it at the expo, and more importantly in the future Marty is going to drive it to 1931, where is Doc going to find it? Nah I think Doc just built another time machine it makes more sense to me.