NO, I know they got a license, later. But as far as I know that was already after they had started making their games..., and after it came to the IP's owners attention.
No, I don't think they "don't like the older games". It just seems to me that whoever was "whining", that they didn't get control of the "IP", and now want to continue their own version of the story (instead of the old). They need to step back and look at the fact that every other fan developer wants to do the same thing...
POS for example, have said they wanted to buy the IP...
I don't want to see that either...
I feel slightly better with Telltale getting it, as they are a professional company, with industry experience, and hopefully can pull some of the older Sierra developers into the mix. But if they try to do the same thing as POS, AGDI, or even IA, I probably won't buy buying their products.
I don't dislike the 'remakes', I just don't want that to be the direction the series takes in the future. I don't want future 'official' sequels making references The Father, or to Valanice being the daughter of Manannan... I want things to be simple. I don't wanted convoluted explanations. If references are made, I want the references to conform to what occured in the originals.
I feel exactly the same way. Just that I feel that both the TSL team and AGDI wants to make a major mark on the KQ mythos with their own vision of the story; both games threw quite a lot of the original material out to make room for theirs. While it may sound good, both teams have less experience than TT in terms of storytelling and game design. It is why I don't like the direction they took with KQ2+ by adding elements such as the vampire family and the Sharkee. I understand not everyone feels the same way as me, which is fine, but I don't feel that these additions add to the original storyline.
One of the gripes I have about fanfiction in general is that the fanfic writer tries to tie everything up by making everyone related. It isn't just King's Quest fanfiction that is affected by this, but also many others. Because of this, I always refer the KQ fangames as fangames since they are written by fans with a fan perspective on the storyline.
The way I read the comments on AGDI made me assumed that one of the AGDI creators is pretty upset that TT has gotten the license and have suggested to us fans to write to Activision for a proper company to handle the license. I can understand his/her frustration, (being awarded an official license to make the game is an honor) but Activision simply went with TT since they have more experience releasing games. I do not know how long Al Emmo or that other game has taken AGDI to make, but if it takes as long as the KQ games, surely that can be a problem to meet deadlines.
Just that the way AGDI creator 2 and a few of the AGDI team have been acting with the announcement that TT has gotten the license is very unprofessional in a business standpoint, in my honest opinion.
I think if AGDI 2 have written his comments like this:
"While we are pleased that TT was granted official license to the King's Quest series, we wish that in the future, Activision would grant us such a license so that we can create new adventures for an IP that is so dear to our hearts."
Or for a more honest response
"While we are pleased to hear that Activision decided to revive the King's Qust IP with new commercial games,..."
People wouldn't be reacting the way they are now. Having poor PR can hurt the business, which is why a lot of companies hire PR rep or talk in such a professional matter.
I am both a fan of Sierra and Lucasarts games and have no sense of picking sides. However, if I read comments similar to that AGDI creator 2 made by a top Sierra/Lucasarts rep, it might make me pick sides. Just saying..
Being fans making fangames is one thing, but if you want to make professional games, you have to act professional...at least when you are a new company; you can act cock and unprofessional once you have a good track record.
I feel exactly the same way. Just that I feel that both the TSL team and AGDI wants to make a major mark on the KQ mythos with their own vision of the story; both games threw quite a lot of the original material out to make room for theirs. While it may sound good, both teams have less experience than TT in terms of storytelling and game design. It is why I don't like the direction they took with KQ2+ by adding elements such as the vampire family and the Sharkee. I understand not everyone feels the same way as me, which is fine, but I don't feel that these additions add to the original storyline.
While I can clearly see where you're coming from, I don't get why do you expect Telltale to make a better job in the mythos and storyline department.
How could they without the direction of the creators of the series (manly Roberta)?
I also share your gripes about fanfictions that tie everything together, but I don't think the fan games could deepen the characters and the meaning of previous events without it.
Particularly KQII is a bland fairy tale collection without some meaning or a exciting story in the least, there is barly anything original about it. That's why I greatly appreciate what AGDI did with the material.
Whenever a group of creative people remakes, or reboots, or makes a sequel for an existing franchise that was developed by a different group of creative people, I think it's pretty common for the fan base of the original to be split, largely on subjective reasons, as to whether they like or even accept the second effort. It doesn't really matter whether the second effort was "professional" or fan-made or anywhere in between. I have found myself on both sides of this situation for various franchises, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that TTG's KQ game ends up in a split decision from the fanbase, too.
It's also pretty clear that from a business perspective, the only one that matters to Activision, none of the fan groups producing KQ content are realistic choices for licensed continuations of the series. TTG has a larger customer base, commands more gaming media attention, has more resources in terms of finances and people and a modern gaming engine and sales and distribution channels, has a track record for managing resources and delivering on time, and is capable of producing for all of the major gaming platforms.
I don't really think it's fair, though, to label AGDI's remakes as unprofessional even though (or just because) the group of people who made them didn't do so under the auspices of a for-profit game company. Personally, I found their level of quality -- their artistic and technical merit -- quite high, but certainly well within the range that comes from the professional game industry, broadly defined. It's not that criticisms of the AGDI remakes' artistic and technical quality aren't valid, it's that they could easily apply to some paid-for games as well. Have you really never played a "professional" game that lacked polish or had ugly graphics or an unsatisfying story or crappy gameplay or music that was out of place? The professional game industry is quite capable of producing games with terrible UI, poorly designed or implemented controls, not to mention crashes, bugs and frame-rate issues. I'm pretty sure the company responsible for the infamous line "All your base are belong to us" was a "professional" game producer. (
Extreme example provided only for purposes of levity.
)
In any event, my concern about TTG making KQ games isn't really about the story, though I don't think it's a given that they'll nail it. It has to do with the fact that TTG's game-worlds have become too small with limited points of interactivity and a minimal set of ways the character is able to interact with the world, and therefore gameplay suffers from a lack of complexity. Playing AGDI's latest KQ3R served as a strong reminder of how wonderful it is to explore a complex world, discover its mysteries, face its threats (at risk of death), overcome its challenges, and how I'm just not getting that from Telltale's recent offerings.
While I can clearly see where you're coming from, I don't get why do you expect Telltale to make a better job in the mythos and storyline department.
How could they without the direction of the creators of the series (manly Roberta)?
I also share your gripes about fanfictions that tie everything together, but I don't think the fan games could deepen the characters and the meaning of previous events without it.
Particularly KQII is a bland fairy tale collection without some meaning or a exciting story in the least, there is barly anything original about it. That's why I greatly appreciate what AGDI did with the material.
I expect TTG to do a better job in story development because they have more resources. I would imagine them being able to pursuade Roberta Williams or a top name ex Sierra employee to help make the game. Even if Roberta is retired, they may ask her for her input or blessings. I would think AGDI would most likely tackle the sequels themselves since they have experience making KQ games whereas TTG doesn't and would get ppl who worked on the official titles to help make theirs. Not sure if that makes sense - Just that I would picture TTG hiring a professional writer whereas AGDI would use their own team to make the story. Maybe I am bias, but I feel more content that a good, professional writer with years of experience who researches the games story than a group of fans. Nothing against fans, but fans tend to think in a degree of trying to make things work through the perception of what they like about King's Quest whereas an experienced writer would focus on character development and story rather than trying to add things he/she likes like a fanfic writer. To clarify, a fanfic write might like Jolo, so he might give him a big role in a KQ with a heroic storyline and a completely different personality. A professional writer might analyze the king's question stories with other fairy tales and try to fit that same tone, yet adding something new to the table.
I might be giving TTG too much credit, however; they might end up with a plot that is worse than the AGDI KQ2 remake
I would imagine them being able to pursuade Roberta Williams or a top name ex Sierra employee to help make the game. Even if Roberta is retired, they may ask her for her input or blessings.
Most of the fangames already HAVE Roberta's blessing. While they don't have any direct story/design input from any Sierra employees, AGDI is on very good terms with many people from Sierra (including having several of them as voice actors). They're just as likely to reach out to Sierra employees for an official game as Telltale is.
Maybe I am bias, but I feel more content that a good, professional writer with years of experience who researches the games story than a group of fans.
Who says a group of fans can't contain a good, professional writer with years of experience? Do you know for sure how much writing experience the AGDI writers have? (Not trying to be insulting/challenging here, I genuinely don't know myself.)
whereas an experienced writer would focus on character development and story rather than trying to add things he/she likes like a fanfic writer.
Most of the embellishments AGDI made to the King's Quest universe were in the name of character development and story. Sure, there was some fanservice in there (especially in KQ3Redux), but the games made the stories more logical (Why does Grandma have Dracula's cloak? How does Gwydion know he's in danger?) and gave the characters fleshed-out motivations (Why does Hagatha steal the nightingale and kidnap Valanice?).
Now, I'm not necessarily saying that AGDI would have been a better pick for the KQ license than Telltale. We'll have to wait until Telltale's game comes out to know for sure. But I *do* think you're making some broad and unfair generalizations about "fan groups" versus "professional groups". Never forget it was a professional group that made Mask of Eternity, and regardless of your opinion of the game, I don't think anyone would say it fits in with the series.
TTG may ask Roberta for her input or blessings. I would think AGDI would most likely tackle the sequels themselves since they have experience making KQ games whereas TTG doesn't and would get ppl who worked on the official titles to help make theirs.
I believe - correct me if I'm wrong and I might be - that the Coles themselves wrote most if not all of the additional material in AGDI remake of Quest for Glory 2. As for King's Quest, Mandel's involvement went beyond voice acting if early interviews with AGDI are to be believed.
Ya, while you are right about the Space Quest Companion, connecting all the villains together...the King's Quest Companion, never did anything of that sort.
Maybe I was bit vague. I never claimed that it made all the connections, just that it connected some of the baddies with each other and fans did the rest.
Particularly KQII is a bland fairy tale collection without some meaning or a exciting story in the least, there is barly anything original about it. That's why I greatly appreciate what AGDI did with the material.
And I love the game the way it is. It fits perfectly into the faery tale canon and there is absolutely no need for added explanations or story elements. In similar manner Peter Jackson's King Kong added many new story elements and cool special effects, but it simply don't have the charm of the original 1933 movie. In many ways first KQ games are like old movie classics. Story may be bit clumsy and visual effects are badly outdated, but still you love those works the way they are and changing things just doesn't feel right.
Never forget it was a professional group that made Mask of Eternity, and regardless of your opinion of the game, I don't think anyone would say it fits in with the series.
I don't see why it wouldn't fit. KQ has changed it's style many times over the years. For example KQ6 and KQ7 have quite different style compared to each other or any of the earlier games.
Maybe I was bit vague. I never claimed that it made all the connections, just that it connected some of the baddies with each other and fans did the rest.
I think KQ5 and KQ6 did the most 'damage' as far as connecting the most villains together. KQ5 connected Mordack, Mananannan and the Vizier in the dialogue. KQ6 then connected Vizier Alhazred, Shadrack, Shamir, and Mordack. KQ6 invented the the whole Black Cloak Society thing.
Lolotte and Malicia are often connected by the fans because their treatment of Edgar mirror each other, and both are fairies from the same land, and because of KQ7. Are there other reasons?
Then there is the coincidence that nearly every villain in the series wears black.
Like you said at that point the fans did the rest.
The Companion/King's Questions only gets the blame for Hagatha being connected alone, other than King's Questions the idea is not mentioned in any other Sierra game. KQ5/6 and to lesser extent 7 did most of the 'damage'
And I love the game the way it is. It fits perfectly into the faery tale canon and there is absolutely no need for added explanations or story elements. In similar manner Peter Jackson's King Kong added many new story elements and cool special effects, but it simply don't have the charm of the original 1933 movie. In many ways first KQ games are like old movie classics. Story may be bit clumsy and visual effects are badly outdated, but still you love those works the way they are and changing things just doesn't feel right.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, intact it's one favorites in the series. Has some of my favorite characters in the series. I also love the 8-bit graphics. I'd love to get a retro 8-bit Graham t-shirt!
I just meant that my impression is that Valiento has been expressing his or her sincere opinions without intent to cause offence, and that any misinformation has not been deliberate.
As far as I can see, his or her reactions stem from a deep love of the source material. But I know so do yours, and indeed those of everyone involved with the fan games!
I am not taking sides, I just think the word "inflammatory" should be reserved in online interaction for posts whose main intention is very clearly to get a rise out of people. All I wanted to say is that this was not my impression in this case.
Sorry for the long explanation... I will shut up now.
One thing you can be sure of - Telltale isn't going to bring on anybody from the Sierra days to help with the project. They might chat with Ken / Roberta if they can get ahold of them (good luck, most of their time is spent sailing all over the world, can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were retired!) but they certainly aren't going to professionally consult with them about the series. Telltale has their own writing and design people, they're not going to go to the expense of paying someone else for something that doesn't fly with how they currently make games.
That's one big difference between a major commercial company making these games and what would have happened if a fan group had gotten a license to do so - fan groups would likely be far more interested in consulting with and involving the original game creators, major commercial companies wouldn't.
One thing you can be sure of - Telltale isn't going to bring on anybody from the Sierra days to help with the project. They might chat with Ken / Roberta if they can get ahold of them (good luck, most of their time is spent sailing all over the world, can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were retired!) but they certainly aren't going to professionally consult with them about the series. Telltale has their own writing and design people, they're not going to go to the expense of paying someone else for something that doesn't fly with how they currently make games.
That's one big difference between a major commercial company making these games and what would have happened if a fan group had gotten a license to do so - fan groups would likely be far more interested in consulting with and involving the original game creators, major commercial companies wouldn't.
Uh...can we really be sure of that? They've gotten consulting help from the creators of every franchise they've acquired the rights to, from Bone to Sam and Max, to Monkey Island, to Back to the Future. Honestly, it seems far LESS likely that they'd NOT consult the creators/designers of King's Quest.
Even Cesar implied in comments that he had heard that they had gotten in contact with at least one important Sierra designer for the project.
Yes we can be sure of that - they may consult with original creators, but only to learn a little more about the story. Those people they consult with aren't going to be influencing the design or writing in any way, that's not how Telltale operates. If Telltale did get ahold of Roberta Williams it wouldn't be to ask her for story or direction ideas, it would just be historical research into the series. They wouldn't even be looking for her approval or blessing or anything along those lines. Just information. Bringing her on in any kind of paid role would go against every aspect of their production model.
Yes we can be sure of that - they may consult with original creators, but only to learn a little more about the story. Those people they consult with aren't going to be influencing the design or writing in any way, that's not how Telltale operates. If Telltale did get ahold of Roberta Williams it wouldn't be to ask her for story or direction ideas, it would just be historical research into the series. They wouldn't even be looking for her approval or blessing or anything along those lines. Just information. Bringing her on in any kind of paid role would go against every aspect of their production model.
I don't think anyone really expects Telltale to attempt to hire Roberta or anything like that. That would be pretty ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Roberta herself is almost completely closed off to the idea of working on computer games again.
But there are several OTHER prominent ex-Sierra designers that are VERY approachable, and would probably be happy to offer consulting or any other requested aid to the design process. Again, actually HIRING those people for the express purpose of working on one game is totally unrealistic--I think everyone gets that.
I also think that Telltale must know that they have a HUGE King's Quest fanbase that they need to try and reach here--far moreso than with almost any of their other products. They are going to have to WORK to please the fans, and they know this. They also know that most fans of King's Quest don't want a thoughtless, spoon-feeding game like some of Telltale's other offerings. So hopefully they will step up and deliver something good. I don't hold out all that much hope, but I'm certainly willing to wait and see.
I agree with you 100% right there - I'm very hopeful for this project, but I'm not holding my breath for the next KQ6. If they want to re-make MoE Telltale style that would actually be nice just about any way they approached it.
Who knows? I do. Telltale just doesn't hire outsiders to work on their projects, they have a system setup that works perfectly for them and doing something like that would totally screw up their system. They don't even have the same person direct more than one episode in any episodic release, there'd be no point in bringing in outside help for just one when they already have an entire team dedicated to doing just that.
Who knows? I do. Telltale just doesn't hire outsiders to work on their projects, they have a system setup that works perfectly for them and doing something like that would totally screw up their system. They don't even have the same person direct more than one episode in any episodic release, there'd be no point in bringing in outside help for just one when they already have an entire team dedicated to doing just that.
Just because your own team didn't get the license, don't try to bring it down for everyone else.
That's one big difference between a major commercial company making these games and what would have happened if a fan group had gotten a license to do so - fan groups would likely be far more interested in consulting with and involving the original game creators, major commercial companies wouldn't.
Sort of the same way you guys "consulted" with Josh Mandel on your own project? And from what I heard, he was given the cold shoulder to any suggestion he made.
Who knows? I do. Telltale just doesn't hire outsiders to work on their projects, they have a system setup that works perfectly for them and doing something like that would totally screw up their system. They don't even have the same person direct more than one episode in any episodic release, there'd be no point in bringing in outside help for just one when they already have an entire team dedicated to doing just that.
They did hire the guy who wrote the original BTF scripts fot the game and had Ron Gilbert as consultant, as well as Steve Purcell for Monkey Island and Sam and Max, respectively
True. Valanice as Manannan's daughter doesn't make sense at all. Manannan doesn't seem to hate his own family as it's shown in KQ5 where he went to his brother Mordack, who was willing to take extreme measures to save his brother from his feline condition. And if we believe King's Quest Companion he kidnapped Alexander, because Graham humiliated his sister Hagatha by rescuing Valanice.
If he was Valanice's father it would seem more logical that he would have raised Alexander to be evil and made him his apprentice and ally rather than made him his slave with the interntion to eventually murder him.
It would also make ridiculously good commercial sense to hire one or more of the original Sierra designers. The positive PR alone generated by such a move would give sales an enormous boost.
So it is not only what every Sierra fan is hoping for, and what makes sense in creative terms, and something that would put a substantial stamp of authenticity on the project, but it would also be absolutely guaranteed to increase sales.
Creative and practical considerations are not at odds here, they lead to the same conclusion: Hiring original Sierra designers or other creative folk just makes sense.
Manannan doesn't seem to hate his own family as it's shown in KQ5 where he went to his brother Mordack, who was willing to take extreme measures to save his brother from his feline condition.
Well, he doesn't hate Valanice either. He shows quite a bit of remorse when he has to lock her up.
True. Valanice as Manannan's daughter doesn't make sense at all. Manannan doesn't seem to hate his own family as it's shown in KQ5 where he went to his brother Mordack, who was willing to take extreme measures to save his brother from his feline condition. And if we believe King's Quest Companion he kidnapped Alexander, because Graham humiliated his sister Hagatha by rescuing Valanice.
If he was Valanice's father it would seem more logical that he would have raised Alexander to be evil and made him his apprentice and ally rather than made him his slave with the interntion to eventually murder him.
The whole plot line is ripped directly from Star Wars, and makes absolutely no sense in the context of the KQ games. Such insane connections do not fit.
Just because your own team didn't get the license, don't try to bring it down for everyone else.
Easy tiger, I'm not trying to bring anything down for anybody, just stating a plain and simple fact about Telltale's production model. It's open public knowledge that they don't hire in outside assistance on their projects from past games or use directors for multiple episodes. It's not me being pessimistic and we really don't care at all that we didn't get a commercial license to do King's Quest. I'm just trying to keep people thinking clearly about this project and not getting their hopes one for this one aspect that definitely won't happen.
The whole plot line is ripped directly from Star Wars, and makes absolutely no sense in the context of the KQ games. Such insane connections do not fit.
Amazing how much you know about a full plot for a game that's only half released...
It's also not like ANY of those elements were unique to Star Wars. Star Wars isn't exactly a beacon of originality. :P
I have my issues with TSL, but I'm still intrigued by the story, and everything makes enough sense to me so far.
These are fairy tales, not epic fantasy stories. Things are not meant to be tightly wrapped together, and never were meant to be, and the whole Valanice = Manny's daughter revelation is just kind of a "WTF were you thinking?!" moment for me because it makes no sense in the context of the series.
Roberta may not have meant to tie them all together, but why does that mean we can't have fun doing so?
Some of us like speculating about connections and backstories. Hell, it's half the reason the WMG section of TV Tropes exists. For a lot of us, a cohesive mythology is much more fun and engaging than unrelated little stories and events. I say that the people who have managed to channel their interest in a franchise and their questions about it into creativity should be applauded.
Now, if a "canon" explanation was given for everything, I'd probably be a bit upset, partially because I'm having so much fun with the various fan theories that I would be let down by any official version. :P
As for the daughter thing...it doesn't directly contradict anything in the games, it offers a character motivation for why Manannan chose Alexander, and it probably sets things up for the rest of TSL. We can debate whether or not it we liked the twist, but it's not like it's an affront to everything KQ stands for.
Roberta may not have meant to tie them all together, but why does that mean we can't have fun doing so?
Some of us like speculating about connections and backstories. Hell, it's half the reason the WMG section of TV Tropes exists. For a lot of us, a cohesive mythology is much more fun and engaging than unrelated little stories and events. I say that the people who have managed to channel their interest in a franchise and their questions about it into creativity should be applauded.
Now, if a "canon" explanation was given for everything, I'd probably be a bit upset, partially because I'm having so much fun with the various fan theories that I would be let down by any official version. :P
As for the daughter thing...it doesn't directly contradict anything in the games, it offers a character motivation for why Manannan chose Alexander, and it probably sets things up for the rest of TSL. We can debate whether or not it we liked the twist, but it's not like it's an affront to everything KQ stands for.
Fans tying things together in their minds or fan fiction is one thing. That has no place in an official game.
That's fine. I don't mind if Telltale has a deeper story than previous games, but I don't want them to undo all the fan speculation with their own retcons.
That's fine. I don't mind if Telltale has a deeper story than previous games, but I don't want them to undo all the fan speculation with their own retcons.
Undoing the fan speculation would be sticking the originals. The fan speculations are retcons of the originals. There is nothing in the KQ games to suggest that the Black Cloak Society is behind everything; nothing to suggest all the plots are tied together in some intricate web of intrigue; Nothing to suggest a 1000 year old prophecy; nothing to suggest there's an all powerful Father pulling the strings and cursing the Royal Family.
Each KQ game is pretty much a standalone adventure, and that's how TT should approach the series.
That's probably actually how they will approach it - TT is typically fairly good at rebooting things and giving games a fresh perspective. Whether doing that will successfully hold the interest of long time KQ fans or not remains to be seen, but it's highly doubtful they'll try to tie things together the way that fan groups do.
There is nothing in the KQ games to suggest that the Black Cloak Society is behind everything; nothing to suggest all the plots are tied together in some intricate web of intrigue; Nothing to suggest a 1000 year old prophecy; nothing to suggest there's an all powerful Father pulling the strings and cursing the Royal Family.
I'm aware that these are retcons (although there's nothing to suggest that these things AREN'T happening :P ). My point is, I'd rather all retcons be fanbased, not officially sanctioned with no room for speculation or alternate theories.
Comments
I feel exactly the same way. Just that I feel that both the TSL team and AGDI wants to make a major mark on the KQ mythos with their own vision of the story; both games threw quite a lot of the original material out to make room for theirs. While it may sound good, both teams have less experience than TT in terms of storytelling and game design. It is why I don't like the direction they took with KQ2+ by adding elements such as the vampire family and the Sharkee. I understand not everyone feels the same way as me, which is fine, but I don't feel that these additions add to the original storyline.
One of the gripes I have about fanfiction in general is that the fanfic writer tries to tie everything up by making everyone related. It isn't just King's Quest fanfiction that is affected by this, but also many others. Because of this, I always refer the KQ fangames as fangames since they are written by fans with a fan perspective on the storyline.
The way I read the comments on AGDI made me assumed that one of the AGDI creators is pretty upset that TT has gotten the license and have suggested to us fans to write to Activision for a proper company to handle the license. I can understand his/her frustration, (being awarded an official license to make the game is an honor) but Activision simply went with TT since they have more experience releasing games. I do not know how long Al Emmo or that other game has taken AGDI to make, but if it takes as long as the KQ games, surely that can be a problem to meet deadlines.
Just that the way AGDI creator 2 and a few of the AGDI team have been acting with the announcement that TT has gotten the license is very unprofessional in a business standpoint, in my honest opinion.
I think if AGDI 2 have written his comments like this:
"While we are pleased that TT was granted official license to the King's Quest series, we wish that in the future, Activision would grant us such a license so that we can create new adventures for an IP that is so dear to our hearts."
Or for a more honest response
"While we are pleased to hear that Activision decided to revive the King's Qust IP with new commercial games,..."
People wouldn't be reacting the way they are now. Having poor PR can hurt the business, which is why a lot of companies hire PR rep or talk in such a professional matter.
I am both a fan of Sierra and Lucasarts games and have no sense of picking sides. However, if I read comments similar to that AGDI creator 2 made by a top Sierra/Lucasarts rep, it might make me pick sides. Just saying..
Being fans making fangames is one thing, but if you want to make professional games, you have to act professional...at least when you are a new company; you can act cock and unprofessional once you have a good track record.
Same here.
Your welcome?
He was being inflammatory. He was declaring "facts" based on misinformation and painting fan groups in a bad light. He still is.
While I can clearly see where you're coming from, I don't get why do you expect Telltale to make a better job in the mythos and storyline department.
How could they without the direction of the creators of the series (manly Roberta)?
I also share your gripes about fanfictions that tie everything together, but I don't think the fan games could deepen the characters and the meaning of previous events without it.
Particularly KQII is a bland fairy tale collection without some meaning or a exciting story in the least, there is barly anything original about it. That's why I greatly appreciate what AGDI did with the material.
It's also pretty clear that from a business perspective, the only one that matters to Activision, none of the fan groups producing KQ content are realistic choices for licensed continuations of the series. TTG has a larger customer base, commands more gaming media attention, has more resources in terms of finances and people and a modern gaming engine and sales and distribution channels, has a track record for managing resources and delivering on time, and is capable of producing for all of the major gaming platforms.
I don't really think it's fair, though, to label AGDI's remakes as unprofessional even though (or just because) the group of people who made them didn't do so under the auspices of a for-profit game company. Personally, I found their level of quality -- their artistic and technical merit -- quite high, but certainly well within the range that comes from the professional game industry, broadly defined. It's not that criticisms of the AGDI remakes' artistic and technical quality aren't valid, it's that they could easily apply to some paid-for games as well. Have you really never played a "professional" game that lacked polish or had ugly graphics or an unsatisfying story or crappy gameplay or music that was out of place? The professional game industry is quite capable of producing games with terrible UI, poorly designed or implemented controls, not to mention crashes, bugs and frame-rate issues. I'm pretty sure the company responsible for the infamous line "All your base are belong to us" was a "professional" game producer. (
In any event, my concern about TTG making KQ games isn't really about the story, though I don't think it's a given that they'll nail it. It has to do with the fact that TTG's game-worlds have become too small with limited points of interactivity and a minimal set of ways the character is able to interact with the world, and therefore gameplay suffers from a lack of complexity. Playing AGDI's latest KQ3R served as a strong reminder of how wonderful it is to explore a complex world, discover its mysteries, face its threats (at risk of death), overcome its challenges, and how I'm just not getting that from Telltale's recent offerings.
I keep picturing Roberta's face and hair with Ken's mustache and body.
I expect TTG to do a better job in story development because they have more resources. I would imagine them being able to pursuade Roberta Williams or a top name ex Sierra employee to help make the game. Even if Roberta is retired, they may ask her for her input or blessings. I would think AGDI would most likely tackle the sequels themselves since they have experience making KQ games whereas TTG doesn't and would get ppl who worked on the official titles to help make theirs. Not sure if that makes sense - Just that I would picture TTG hiring a professional writer whereas AGDI would use their own team to make the story. Maybe I am bias, but I feel more content that a good, professional writer with years of experience who researches the games story than a group of fans. Nothing against fans, but fans tend to think in a degree of trying to make things work through the perception of what they like about King's Quest whereas an experienced writer would focus on character development and story rather than trying to add things he/she likes like a fanfic writer. To clarify, a fanfic write might like Jolo, so he might give him a big role in a KQ with a heroic storyline and a completely different personality. A professional writer might analyze the king's question stories with other fairy tales and try to fit that same tone, yet adding something new to the table.
I might be giving TTG too much credit, however; they might end up with a plot that is worse than the AGDI KQ2 remake
The only resources you need to make a good story are creativity and a knowledge of story structure and architecture.
Most of the fangames already HAVE Roberta's blessing. While they don't have any direct story/design input from any Sierra employees, AGDI is on very good terms with many people from Sierra (including having several of them as voice actors). They're just as likely to reach out to Sierra employees for an official game as Telltale is.
Who says a group of fans can't contain a good, professional writer with years of experience? Do you know for sure how much writing experience the AGDI writers have? (Not trying to be insulting/challenging here, I genuinely don't know myself.)
Most of the embellishments AGDI made to the King's Quest universe were in the name of character development and story. Sure, there was some fanservice in there (especially in KQ3Redux), but the games made the stories more logical (Why does Grandma have Dracula's cloak? How does Gwydion know he's in danger?) and gave the characters fleshed-out motivations (Why does Hagatha steal the nightingale and kidnap Valanice?).
Now, I'm not necessarily saying that AGDI would have been a better pick for the KQ license than Telltale. We'll have to wait until Telltale's game comes out to know for sure. But I *do* think you're making some broad and unfair generalizations about "fan groups" versus "professional groups". Never forget it was a professional group that made Mask of Eternity, and regardless of your opinion of the game, I don't think anyone would say it fits in with the series.
I believe - correct me if I'm wrong and I might be - that the Coles themselves wrote most if not all of the additional material in AGDI remake of Quest for Glory 2. As for King's Quest, Mandel's involvement went beyond voice acting if early interviews with AGDI are to be believed.
Maybe I was bit vague. I never claimed that it made all the connections, just that it connected some of the baddies with each other and fans did the rest.
And I love the game the way it is. It fits perfectly into the faery tale canon and there is absolutely no need for added explanations or story elements. In similar manner Peter Jackson's King Kong added many new story elements and cool special effects, but it simply don't have the charm of the original 1933 movie. In many ways first KQ games are like old movie classics. Story may be bit clumsy and visual effects are badly outdated, but still you love those works the way they are and changing things just doesn't feel right.
I don't see why it wouldn't fit. KQ has changed it's style many times over the years. For example KQ6 and KQ7 have quite different style compared to each other or any of the earlier games.
Lolotte and Malicia are often connected by the fans because their treatment of Edgar mirror each other, and both are fairies from the same land, and because of KQ7. Are there other reasons?
Then there is the coincidence that nearly every villain in the series wears black.
Like you said at that point the fans did the rest.
The Companion/King's Questions only gets the blame for Hagatha being connected alone, other than King's Questions the idea is not mentioned in any other Sierra game. KQ5/6 and to lesser extent 7 did most of the 'damage' I wholeheartedly agree with you, intact it's one favorites in the series. Has some of my favorite characters in the series. I also love the 8-bit graphics. I'd love to get a retro 8-bit Graham t-shirt!
As far as I can see, his or her reactions stem from a deep love of the source material. But I know so do yours, and indeed those of everyone involved with the fan games!
I am not taking sides, I just think the word "inflammatory" should be reserved in online interaction for posts whose main intention is very clearly to get a rise out of people. All I wanted to say is that this was not my impression in this case.
Sorry for the long explanation... I will shut up now.
That's one big difference between a major commercial company making these games and what would have happened if a fan group had gotten a license to do so - fan groups would likely be far more interested in consulting with and involving the original game creators, major commercial companies wouldn't.
Uh...can we really be sure of that? They've gotten consulting help from the creators of every franchise they've acquired the rights to, from Bone to Sam and Max, to Monkey Island, to Back to the Future. Honestly, it seems far LESS likely that they'd NOT consult the creators/designers of King's Quest.
Even Cesar implied in comments that he had heard that they had gotten in contact with at least one important Sierra designer for the project.
I don't think anyone really expects Telltale to attempt to hire Roberta or anything like that. That would be pretty ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Roberta herself is almost completely closed off to the idea of working on computer games again.
But there are several OTHER prominent ex-Sierra designers that are VERY approachable, and would probably be happy to offer consulting or any other requested aid to the design process. Again, actually HIRING those people for the express purpose of working on one game is totally unrealistic--I think everyone gets that.
I also think that Telltale must know that they have a HUGE King's Quest fanbase that they need to try and reach here--far moreso than with almost any of their other products. They are going to have to WORK to please the fans, and they know this. They also know that most fans of King's Quest don't want a thoughtless, spoon-feeding game like some of Telltale's other offerings. So hopefully they will step up and deliver something good. I don't hold out all that much hope, but I'm certainly willing to wait and see.
Let us root for the best outcomes and not give up until the game is well and truly over!
Just because your own team didn't get the license, don't try to bring it down for everyone else.
Sort of the same way you guys "consulted" with Josh Mandel on your own project?
Valanice isn't Manannan's daughter.
They did hire the guy who wrote the original BTF scripts fot the game and had Ron Gilbert as consultant, as well as Steve Purcell for Monkey Island and Sam and Max, respectively
True. Valanice as Manannan's daughter doesn't make sense at all. Manannan doesn't seem to hate his own family as it's shown in KQ5 where he went to his brother Mordack, who was willing to take extreme measures to save his brother from his feline condition. And if we believe King's Quest Companion he kidnapped Alexander, because Graham humiliated his sister Hagatha by rescuing Valanice.
If he was Valanice's father it would seem more logical that he would have raised Alexander to be evil and made him his apprentice and ally rather than made him his slave with the interntion to eventually murder him.
So it is not only what every Sierra fan is hoping for, and what makes sense in creative terms, and something that would put a substantial stamp of authenticity on the project, but it would also be absolutely guaranteed to increase sales.
Creative and practical considerations are not at odds here, they lead to the same conclusion: Hiring original Sierra designers or other creative folk just makes sense.
The whole plot line is ripped directly from Star Wars, and makes absolutely no sense in the context of the KQ games. Such insane connections do not fit.
Easy tiger, I'm not trying to bring anything down for anybody, just stating a plain and simple fact about Telltale's production model. It's open public knowledge that they don't hire in outside assistance on their projects from past games or use directors for multiple episodes. It's not me being pessimistic and we really don't care at all that we didn't get a commercial license to do King's Quest. I'm just trying to keep people thinking clearly about this project and not getting their hopes one for this one aspect that definitely won't happen.
Amazing how much you know about a full plot for a game that's only half released...
"Valanice, I am your father".
Silver Cloak Society vs. Black Cloack Society = Jedi vs. Sith.
They want Pandora's Box. I'm guessing the Box will be like the Death Star Plans, a valuable asset needed to complete their goal.
Easy to see where the story is going being that we're halfway through the game. It's not like you guys are very subtle the plot.
I have my issues with TSL, but I'm still intrigued by the story, and everything makes enough sense to me so far.
These are fairy tales, not epic fantasy stories. Things are not meant to be tightly wrapped together, and never were meant to be, and the whole Valanice = Manny's daughter revelation is just kind of a "WTF were you thinking?!" moment for me because it makes no sense in the context of the series.
Some of us like speculating about connections and backstories. Hell, it's half the reason the WMG section of TV Tropes exists. For a lot of us, a cohesive mythology is much more fun and engaging than unrelated little stories and events. I say that the people who have managed to channel their interest in a franchise and their questions about it into creativity should be applauded.
Now, if a "canon" explanation was given for everything, I'd probably be a bit upset, partially because I'm having so much fun with the various fan theories that I would be let down by any official version. :P
As for the daughter thing...it doesn't directly contradict anything in the games, it offers a character motivation for why Manannan chose Alexander, and it probably sets things up for the rest of TSL. We can debate whether or not it we liked the twist, but it's not like it's an affront to everything KQ stands for.
Fans tying things together in their minds or fan fiction is one thing. That has no place in an official game.
Undoing the fan speculation would be sticking the originals. The fan speculations are retcons of the originals. There is nothing in the KQ games to suggest that the Black Cloak Society is behind everything; nothing to suggest all the plots are tied together in some intricate web of intrigue; Nothing to suggest a 1000 year old prophecy; nothing to suggest there's an all powerful Father pulling the strings and cursing the Royal Family.
Each KQ game is pretty much a standalone adventure, and that's how TT should approach the series.
I'm aware that these are retcons (although there's nothing to suggest that these things AREN'T happening :P ). My point is, I'd rather all retcons be fanbased, not officially sanctioned with no room for speculation or alternate theories.