Exclusivity over the license.

124

Comments

  • edited March 2011
    Many of these fan games have done a good enough job ignoring elements of the classic games, that if the new games references the old games directly, it will be ignoring the fan games.

    I'd prefer if it didn't reference the fan games at all. I'd rather it made references to the classics, if it makes any references at all.
  • edited March 2011
    It would also make ridiculously good commercial sense to hire one or more of the original Sierra designers. The positive PR alone generated by such a move would give sales an enormous boost.

    So it is not only what every Sierra fan is hoping for, and what makes sense in creative terms, and something that would put a substantial stamp of authenticity on the project, but it would also be absolutely guaranteed to increase sales.

    Creative and practical considerations are not at odds here, they lead to the same conclusion: Hiring original Sierra designers or other creative folk just makes sense.

    I have difficulty seeing the logic of these conclusions. While I believe Telltale has an honest desire to please the KQ fanbase, that's not going to override their need to appeal to a far larger target audience. That's the only factor in making commercial sense. I mean, if the fanbase is as large as you seem to think it is, there wouldn't have been a 10+ year drought of KQ games, no matter how incompetent the companies that owned Sierra in that time might have been. The larger gaming audience is very different than it was 15 years ago, and bringing in former KQ designers for anything more than consultation would just be a recipe for internal conflict.

    Moreover, Telltale's not going to have any trouble getting PR for this game, no matter who is working on it. While the Williams name would certainly make a little PR splash, I doubt any others would make a dent outside of the most dedicated fans.

    So I just don't see Telltale going out of their way to hire former Sierra designers. Neither do I see them paying any attention whatsoever to the fan-made continuities. Telltale is going to want credit for their own original production here. That's an entirely legitimate thing for a game company or any creative endeavor to want. (Even though it scares me as someone who is both a fan of the original KQs and highly familiar with Telltale's prior work.)
  • edited March 2011
    Fans tying things together in their minds or fan fiction is one thing. That has no place in an official game.

    I agree. the problem with the KQ fangames is that there are a lot of different fangroups trying to come up with their own mark on the game. That is fine, but because of that, each fangame greatly contradicts other fangames, as well as the main source material. I just don't want them to see TT taking one fangame as official canon since in a sense, it is playing favortism - I agree with Valiento that if the TTG game is a continuation, it references the old, original games and not the fangames. I wouldn't mind seeing a loose reference/joke to fangames like "There are rumors that my father is a cat."
  • edited March 2011
    There are rumors that my father is a cat.
    That's a dangerous road to take, however. Some would choose to take it literal, as opposed to a joke.
  • edited March 2011
    Valiento wrote: »
    That's a dangerous road to take, however. Some would choose to take it literal, as opposed to a joke.

    It was just an example, though. The joke wouldn't work if it is done out of context. However, I was imagining the line be said as if the queen was joking and laughing to little kids. I don't think someone would mistake it as literal if it was done in that context.

    TTG likes putting references in their games, though they tend to use the official material; In the TTG S&M games, I don't think they ever used any references from the sam and max cartoons, yet they do source the comics and the hit the road game.
  • edited March 2011
    doom saber wrote: »
    I don't think they ever used any references from the sam and max cartoons,

    Isn't there a picture in the office of their trip to the moon from the animated series? Or was that episode based on one of the comics?
  • edited March 2011
    doggans wrote: »
    Isn't there a picture in the office of their trip to the moon from the animated series? Or was that episode based on one of the comics?

    It was based on one of the comics. :)
  • edited March 2011
    It was just an example, though. The joke wouldn't work if it is done out of context. However, I was imagining the line be said as if the queen was joking and laughing to little kids. I don't think someone would mistake it as literal if it was done in that context.
    While I like these kind of nods in the old King's Quest gams when it was between KQ games, and the occasional reference to other Sierra franchises (Leisure Suit Larry gets a nod for example in some of the earlier games); I personally would prefer if official games would leave the fan games out of the equation entirely. I'd like those jokes reserved for nods back to the classic sierra games (like it was in KQ6).
  • edited March 2011
    Valiento wrote: »
    While I like these kind of nods in the old King's Quest gams when it was between KQ games, and the occasional reference to other Sierra franchises (Leisure Suit Larry gets a nod for example in some of the earlier games); I personally would prefer if official games would leave the fan games out of the equation entirely. I'd like those jokes reserved for nods back to the classic sierra games (like it was in KQ6).

    I can see where you are coming from since it would give the fan games some sort of recognition if they were mentioned. Although I prefer the fan games not be cannon, I think they still deserve some sort of recognition since without them, King's Quest wouldn't be back in the public eye; AGDI KQ games lead the way for other fan companies to make fan-made remakes and sequels, whereas TSL made the public aware of KQ by having their fangame plastered on gaming magazines.
  • edited March 2011
    Interesting to see people dissing the fan games so much, as it's quite possible that without them there wouldn't be this forum where you could pour your venom on them.
  • edited March 2011
    Sslaxx wrote: »
    Interesting to see people dissing the fan games so much, as it's quite possible that without them there wouldn't be this forum where you could pour your venom on them.

    What makes you think so? While fan games might have attracted some new fans to the series, it's a well known fact that old Sierra titles already were quite familiar to the adventure gamers.

    Maybe it's just the general revival of the commerical adventure games which made new King's Quest possible. Many TTG's fans (who are familiar with the original golden age adventures) have frequently wished them to acquire licenses to Sierra games. Also when LucasArts started selling their old adventures in Steam, Activision was quick to follow and started selling King's Quest and Space Quest collections on Steam. And more importantly many titles of old Sierra catalogue are now available on Good Old Games.

    I believe that behind this decision are mostly two facts. Activision has made some money by selling old Sierra titles and they noticed that TTG's episodic Monkey Island sold well.

    And my attitude towards fan games isn't hostile per se, I just ignore those. However I dislike the idea that there would be references to uncanonical events in official canon.
  • edited March 2011
    Activision hasn't actually made money selling old Sierra stuff themselves, primarily they've made money by letting other people sell the stuff (like GOG). Something they only became interested in doing after several fan groups did quite a bit of work on these series and showed that they could still be popular. Various groups from small fan gatherings to major commercial developers have been asking Vivendi and Activision for years to make money off commercial titles in those franchises and have been turned down many times.

    Do I think Telltale's contract is ONLY because of fan group work? Certainly not. But I do agree that it is a factor.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    Activision hasn't actually made money selling old Sierra stuff themselves, primarily they've made money by letting other people sell the stuff (like GOG). Something they only became interested in doing after several fan groups did quite a bit of work on these series and showed that they could still be popular. Various groups from small fan gatherings to major commercial developers have been asking Vivendi and Activision for years to make money off commercial titles in those franchises and have been turned down many times.

    Do I think Telltale's contract is ONLY because of fan group work? Certainly not. But I do agree that it is a factor.

    Vivendi planned the re-release of the Quest games around late 2005 and finally re-released the main Quest games in September 2006, when only two fan games had been released.

    So I'd say the argument that the fan games were a big factor in this is a stretch.
  • edited March 2011
    Right, that's a RE-release, what I'm referring to are NEW commercial entries into the series. It's much easier to just allow sales of an existing product than it is to justify making a new one.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    Right, that's a RE-release, what I'm referring to are NEW commercial entries into the series. It's much easier to just allow sales of an existing product than it is to justify making a new one.

    A KQ relaunch was explored by Sierra as early as 2002, as was a relaunch of SQ. And we got the LSL game in 2004.

    Fangames don't generate sales, and the relatively low number of KQ fan games (as compared to other franchises) isn't really a good indicator of the series/genres popularity, it just shows there's some small groups of dedicated fans.

    What are good indicators or justifiers of making a new game are the sales of the 2006 collection, as well as the sale numbers on sites like GOG and Steam, as well as the numbers on games like Heavy Rain and other recent adventure games and TellTale's own games. KQ was chosen for an adventure game reboot rather than say SQ or QFG likely because it was Sierra's flagship adventure series and biggest moneymaker even then and is still one of the most renowned adventure game series as well as one of Sierra's most renowned properties.
  • edited March 2011
    Nearly 30,000 registered members plus covermounts in several countries and worldwide press coverage is hardly a "small group."

    I'm not trying at all to say that fan groups are the only reason for the current interest in King's Quest. But to say that these groups had absolutely no influence at all is silly.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    Nearly 30,000 registered members plus covermounts in several countries and worldwide press coverage is hardly a "small group."

    I'm not trying at all to say that fan groups are the only reason for the current interest in King's Quest. But to say that these groups had absolutely no influence at all is silly.

    Meager influence. A professional company knows the difference between hype, and substance. Hype alone means jack. You can hype anything if you know the right people and have the right skills.

    And there may be "30,000 posters", but only perhaps 100 or so post regularly. The largest number ever on your forum according to your own forum statistics was 271 and that was back in July.
  • edited March 2011
    That was the most people ever on the forums all at once, that's pretty good for any company regardless of industry status.

    And whether they post regularly or not isn't as relevant as whether those 30,000 are all continuing to download each episode of the game.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    That was the most people ever on the forums all at once, that's pretty good for any company regardless of industry status.

    And whether they post regularly or not isn't as relevant as whether those 30,000 are all continuing to download each episode of the game.

    30,000 compared to the 1 million worldwide sales for Heavy Rain. And I truly doubt that EVERY SINGLE MEMBER (all 30,000) who joined since the forums started in 2001 or 2002 downloaded the game.
    Plus God knows how much the 2006 collections sold as well as the GOG and Steam re-releases.
  • edited March 2011
    I dearly love AGDI remakes, but which fan projects made the Lucasarts adventure game revival possible? I'm referring to:

    - Tales of Monkey Island
    - Monkey 1 and 2 remakes
    - Older games available on Steam and Direct 2 Drive
    - Fate of Atlantis included in Staff of Kings

    Following the logic in this thread, it must have had something to do with fan games, no?

    AGDI (talented artists and beautiful people) sometimes bring up their download numbers as proof of guaranteed profit if they were given the license, but to be honest, less than million free downloads for KQ1 and 2 combined across 8, 9 years isn't really that impressive. Or rather it is, but most likely not enough for the publisher of Call of Duty (2,5 million copies sold in the first 24 hours) to notice.

    Again, I'm such a fan of fan games that I could make fan games based on fan games, but I really don't understand the view that barely anybody would even know what KQ is anymore if it wasn't for AGDI and POS.
  • edited March 2011
    Nobody's expressing that view though. Just saying that fan games have helped a bit with keeping the awareness of the games alive. There are people (not everyone, I'm not claiming that for one second) who played TSL or one of AGDI's or IA's King's Quest games before ever buying or playing any of the originals.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    There are people (not everyone, I'm not claiming that for one second) who played TSL before ever buying or playing any of the originals.

    Those poor people.
    I excluded AGDI and IA as they know how to maintain that sweet, magical KQ feel and atmosphere even if they added story elements or details.
  • edited March 2011
    Radogol wrote: »
    I dearly love AGDI remakes, but which fan projects made the Lucasarts adventure game revival possible? I'm referring to:

    - Tales of Monkey Island
    - Monkey 1 and 2 remakes
    - Older games available on Steam and Direct 2 Drive
    - Fate of Atlantis included in Staff of Kings

    Following the logic in this thread, it must have had something to do with fan games, no?

    AGDI (talented artists and beautiful people) sometimes bring up their download numbers as proof of guaranteed profit if they were given the license, but to be honest, less than million free downloads for KQ1 and 2 combined across 8, 9 years isn't really that impressive. Or rather it is, but most likely not enough for the publisher of Call of Duty (2,5 million copies sold in the first 24 hours) to notice.

    Again, I'm such a fan of fan games that I could make fan games based on fan games, but I really don't understand the view that everybody would even know what KQ is anymore if it wasn't for AGDI and POS.

    Comparing the revival of a commercial KQ game with lucasarts games is like comparing apples and oranges. The LA games were revived once they have gotten a new president. The president of LA during the early 2000s' era didn't like adventure games, and instead wanted the company to focus on the various SW games. Even then, adventure games like Full Throttle was completely different; it was more of a beat 'em up game.

    IMO, the cancellation behind the Freelance Police and the former LA employees leaving LA to form TTG is what aid the revival of LA games. Clearly, the cancellation of FP resulted in TTG making S&M season 1. There are other factors in it as well, such as LA getting a president who didn't mind the company making LA adventure games.

    Saying that the AGDI and TSL games didn't affect Activision's decision to revive KQ at all is also a stretch - I remember reading rumors somewhere on here that Activision originally wanted to sell the KQ license to another publisher, much like how they sold off the LSL ip to Codemasters.
  • edited March 2011
    doom saber wrote: »
    IMO, the cancellation behind the Freelance Police and the former LA employees leaving LA to form TTG is what aid the revival of LA games.

    I'm not sure what you're saying. The cancellation of LA's final adventure game led to revival of LA adventure games six years later?
  • edited March 2011
    doom saber wrote: »
    The Sierra games were revived once Sierra had gotten a new president. The president of Sierra in the late 1990s and the CEO of Vivendi during the early 2000s' era didn't like adventure games, and instead wanted the company to focus on the various action and RPG games. Even then, adventure games like LSL: Magna Cum Laude was completely different; it was more of a beat 'em up game.

    IMO, the re-release of the original games in 2006 and again in 2009 and 2010 on Steam and GOG is what aid the revival of KQ. There are other factors in it as well, such as Activision's CEO being a fan of Sierra adventure games in his youth and commercial adventure games being relatively good sized hits (for a supposedly dead genre).

    See what I did there?
  • edited March 2011
    See what I did there?

    So we are saying that Bobby Kotick is a fan of Sierra? LOL Wow!

    At this point, I think some ppl are just trolling.
  • edited March 2011
    doom saber wrote: »
    So we are saying that Bobby Kotick is a fan of Sierra? LOL Wow!

    At this point, I think some ppl are just trolling.

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97655-Kotick-Admits-Activisions-Spider-Man-Games-Sucked

    "Bobby Kotick has become the bogeyman of the games industry these days. There's no one man that gamers love to hate more (other than Thompson, J. or Atkinson, M. of course), which is interesting because he's also undoubtedly one of the most powerful figures in gaming right now. But it seems that you can't turn a corner without gamers and press alike blaming him for every single wrong in the industry from the lack of dedicated servers in Modern Warfare 2 to, I don't know, killing babies in Dante's Inferno.

    Which is why it's interesting that the guy comes off so... well, reasonably in the feature interview in the latest Game Informer. There's some interesting stuff in there, from his experience addicted to Sierra games in college to his entrance into the industry in the '80s, but also on more relevant stuff, like Kotick's thoughts on franchises, the value of new IP, etc. This same interview has generated news already, from the existence of a new DJ Hero, to a prediction about PC developer Blizzard that went very, very wrong."
  • edited March 2011
    Holy shit! Great find!
  • edited March 2011
    Radogol wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're saying. The cancellation of LA's final adventure game led to revival of LA adventure games six years later?

    What I mean is that the cancellation of Freelance Police led former Lucasarts employees to form TTG and acquire the Sam and Max license. Regardless of people's opinions on TTG's S and M, it was rather successful for an adventure game that pioneered episodic gaming. The success of S&M could be one of the main factor why LA approached TTG to make TMI. The other main factor is Jim Ward resigning.

    IMO, the six year gap is because of how Jim Ward, Pres of LA at the time didn't like adventure games and wanted to focus on SW games - he took over as president in 2004, the same year that freelance police was cancelled.
  • edited March 2011
    I'm tired of reading Anakin's posts. Does this forum have an ignore feature like other vBulletin boards?
    Let us root for the best outcomes and not give up until the game is well and truly over! :)

    No thanks. I'm not a follower.
  • edited March 2011
    I'm tired of reading Anakin's posts. Does this forum have an ignore feature like other vBulletin boards?



    No thanks. I'm not a follower.

    Why are you even here? You already decided you aren't going to like the game. Don't even bother playing it.
  • edited March 2011
    Personally AGDI's works with the King's Quest series is some of the best fan based work I've seen ever. Even back in 2001 I couldn't believe the work they did with KQ1VGA even though it was mostly a 1:1 remake. And then they turned KQ2 (one of worst games in the series in my opinion) into a storyline that competed with KQ6 (one of my favorites) Personally I'm curious how the Telltale KQ game will come out but I don't see the point in slamming AGDI seeing how they've done an impressive job with all of their work.
  • edited March 2011
    Why are you even here? You already decided you aren't going to like the game. Don't even bother playing it.

    I'm here because I'm trying to steer the project in the right direction. I doubt it'll work but it's worth a shot. When I say "I'm not a follower" I mean that I'm not just going to blindly accept anything Telltale throws at me related to franchises I love in exchange for my money.
  • edited March 2011
    techie775 wrote: »
    Personally AGDI's works with the King's Quest series is some of the best fan based work I've seen ever. Even back in 2001 I couldn't believe the work they did with KQ1VGA even though it was mostly a 1:1 remake. And then they turned KQ2 (one of worst games in the series in my opinion) into a storyline that competed with KQ6 (one of my favorites) Personally I'm curious how the Telltale KQ game will come out but I don't see the point in slamming AGDI seeing how they've done an impressive job with all of their work.

    People weren't so much slamming AGDI's work since they did do an impressive job with the games. Just that the announcment that TTG has acquired the license and how AGDI reacted to it, divided some people here on the forums.
  • edited March 2011
    I do get where the sourness of some people comes from. Fan groups have spent a lot of time in creating their KQ games and some have even geared towards commercial prodcution with other games, so they might have had dreams of continuing KQ commercially as well. But now that's off the table, at least for now.

    But be it any case, any future KQ game, be it 3D or 3D, would have been different from the originals. For one thing, the graphics would be much higher resoultion in 2D games, instantly making the looks different. And that was what Sierra did as well, developed their games along the tech, not against it, like some fans seem to be wanting.

    In the end, what matters most, is the atmosphere of the game. If TTG decides to do a KQ game with atmosphere of Monkey Island, the game is doomed. But as far I'm concerned, TTG has managed to do different kind of atmosphere in their different products. So here's hoping for the best.
  • edited March 2011
    doom saber wrote: »
    People weren't so much slamming AGDI's work since they did do an impressive job with the games. Just that the announcment that TTG has acquired the license and how AGDI reacted to it, divided some people here on the forums.

    Ah, I've just seen a couple posts calling AGDI's work "amateurish" which I highly disagree with. I know that doesn't represent everyone but considering this day and age with "Call of Duty" 13, I'm grateful to see Adventure Games produced.
  • edited March 2011
    Why are you even here? You already decided you aren't going to like the game. Don't even bother playing it.

    I think a number of us are here because we feel like we should voice our opinions on how we think a KQ game ought to be different from the traditional Telltale setup. Sure Telltale will have plenty of customers just because they're Telltale, but they'll lose a lot of long-time KQ fans if they just put a KQ skin on a Back to the Future type game.
  • edited March 2011
    I'm tired of reading Anakin's posts. Does this forum have an ignore feature like other vBulletin boards?

    In case you haven't found out yet:
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist
  • CezCez
    edited March 2011
    Why are you even here? You already decided you aren't going to like the game. Don't even bother playing it.

    oh, the irony in this post. I'll make sure to point you to this exact post in the future, because I know it will come in handy.
  • edited March 2011
    Well, that prediction sounds ominous!
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