Sorry, I misread your post. Apparently not even full pot of coffee can keep me focused anymore and I have million and one thing to do. Similar thing happened to me last Friday, so the logical conclusions are that either I shouldn't try to write into forums in hurry when I'm tired and have huge amount of work to do or I shouldn't work on Fridays.
There was an adventure series that made the shift to full 3D and actually didn't lose detail or gameplay, but rather gained some, that was the MYST series. The last two games were 3D and still felt like they belonged to the series. If you haven't tried them yet give them a shot, especially if you're a MYST fan, good luck trying to get Uru to run on vista or 7 though.
There was an adventure series that made the shift to full 3D and actually didn't lose detail or gameplay, but rather gained some, that was the MYST series. The last two games were 3D and still felt like they belonged to the series. If you haven't tried them yet give them a shot, especially if you're a MYST fan, good luck trying to get Uru to run on vista or 7 though.
Myst was pre-rendered 3D and you "walked" from scene to scene. Again, not what I am complaining about.
I think what's even more important about the game is the overall story. Graphics don't come first regardless of if they're 3D or 2D. if the Story sucks, I'm not going to even want to play it. As far as 2D and 3D go, I like both. Honestly, it's more of an artistic and gameplay choice. For example, I've played 3D adventure games with fixed camera angles. And I've played adventure games without fixed camera angles. The fixed camera angles act just like the old 2D games. I think it sounds more like you whining that you don't like 3D adventure games without fixed camera angles. I mean, when you posted that picture with the comment "Can you find the exits!?" I mean... really? The door was pretty obvious unless you're just plain blind. if you don't like a new challenge added to your games, then you must not be a true adventure player. I'm sorry if the exits in games have become more complex than just simply clicking on the edge of the screen.
I think what's even more important about the game is the overall story. Graphics don't come first regardless of if they're 3D or 2D. if the Story sucks, I'm not going to even want to play it. As far as 2D and 3D go, I like both. Honestly, it's more of an artistic and gameplay choice. For example, I've played 3D adventure games with fixed camera angles. And I've played adventure games without fixed camera angles. The fixed camera angles act just like the old 2D games. I think it sounds more like you whining that you don't like 3D adventure games without fixed camera angles. I mean, when you posted that picture with the comment "Can you find the exits!?" I mean... really? The door was pretty obvious unless you're just plain blind. if you don't like a new challenge added to your games, then you must not be a true adventure player. I'm sorry if the exits in games have become more complex than just simply clicking on the edge of the screen.
That is exactly how I feel... Some of those 3D games are pretty awesome when you get to control the camera and really explore your surroundings ... Being able to turn completely around in 2D is a very difficult task.
I think I've stated my point thoroughly enough to get it across, I have to assume that MusicallyInspired simply prefers adventure games in a 3D world and that's cool too. I'm just fighting for what I think is best for KQ.
I don't always agree with Musically - in fact I rarely do - but are you aware of who he is and what projects he's been involved in? Does AGDI ring a bell? I believe he does not *prefer* 3D, he simply defends it as a valid form of presentation for adventure games.
I have nothing against 2D. I love it. But I think 3D is just as capable if not more capable of delivering a great adventure experience. It's all in the way it's handled, however. There's no adventure games that I prefer in 3D over 2D because no adventure game company has done it properly yet. The potential is great. The results are few.
Is that a fact? The word I've heard is that they abandoned their plans for an SCI KQ2, but PQ1, LSL1 and SQ1 still came out, despite the outrage over KQ1. I left out QfG1 since it wasn't AGI
Come to think of it, your version of the story does make sense, as there weren't any remade sequels. However, I would appreciate if you could share your source. Not because I don't believe you, only because I'm curious
Yeah, this is the story as I remember it as well when I was wondering why Sierra didn't remake the rest of the games. They probably didn't cancel the other game remakes because they were already in production.
I'm not very aware of AGDI, only stumbled upon on it once upon a time. I don't recall him stating that he's likes 2D backgrounds, so I ended up presuming he's not for them as much as he is for 3D worlds.
Again, I have nothing against 2D. KQ5 is my favourite Sierra game half because of the graphics alone. They're fantastic. And like I said above, I'm fighting for the potential of 3D adventuring. Nobody has managed to do it properly and phenomenally yet. We either have pre-rendered static museum-like beauty or cartoony low-quality real-time 3D with restricted camera angles. I dislike both.
Myst was pre-rendered 3D and you "walked" from scene to scene. Again, not what I am complaining about.
You missed his point. That last two Myst games (Myst 5: End of Ages and Uru) were full real-time 3D and not pre-rendered at all. There was also "realMyst" which was an official full 3D remake of the original which looks FAR better. Actually it's a great example of my point earlier about how 3D can look more alive and has more potential than static pre-rendered or hand drawn backgrounds (even with animation). The Stoneship Age in the game was altered to have stormy windy, lightning, and rainy whether and every age had a clock cycle from day to night which really added to the atmosphere. Granted this is early millennium and the graphics are a bit dated now but you can't deny that it looks better than the original at any rate. Imagine what they could do now with today's technology.
Some examples of what I mean:
Myst (original)
realMyst (3D remake)
But let me ask you something, why is pre-rendered ok and real-time not ok? What's the difference? Years ago there was a vast difference as pre-rendered look much better than real-time because of hardware deficiencies at the time, but today you can get basically the same quality (and better!) as all those pre-rendered games with today's hardware and all in real-time.
I'm not a 3D fanboy, I love 2D. But you're really not giving 3D the credit it deserves. It was true in the early 2000's and thereabouts that 3D wasn't that spectacular but it has really grown and has a lot of potential. Look at Heavy Rain, for instance. Now granted, these games make 3D look realistic and that's not necessarily how King's Quest should be portrayed I agree. But just because it's 3D doesn't mean it has to look like Tales of Monkey Island either. 3D is certainly capable of portraying the correct art style in 3D and the right interface as long as the design direction is in the right mindset.
I don't think many have seen a good example of the kind of storybook art style used in the 2d games. The hand painted background does have it's charm, and that sort of crude look makes it seem more fantastical. Not expaining this well... :P
I think what's even more important about the game is the overall story. Graphics don't come first regardless of if they're 3D or 2D. if the Story sucks, I'm not going to even want to play it. As far as 2D and 3D go, I like both. Honestly, it's more of an artistic and gameplay choice. For example, I've played 3D adventure games with fixed camera angles. And I've played adventure games without fixed camera angles. The fixed camera angles act just like the old 2D games. I think it sounds more like you whining that you don't like 3D adventure games without fixed camera angles. I mean, when you posted that picture with the comment "Can you find the exits!?" I mean... really? The door was pretty obvious unless you're just plain blind. if you don't like a new challenge added to your games, then you must not be a true adventure player. I'm sorry if the exits in games have become more complex than just simply clicking on the edge of the screen.
That screenshot I posted where I asked can you find all the exits, yes there is clearly a door, but you can't see the wall on the left side, so you're not sure immediately if there is another door there or if you can even walk that way.
Also, you're mistaken if you think I dislike 3D games. Are you sure you have read all my posts before posting yourself?
But let me ask you something, why is pre-rendered ok and real-time not ok? What's the difference? Years ago there was a vast difference as pre-rendered look much better than real-time because of hardware deficiencies at the time, but today you can get basically the same quality (and better!) as all those pre-rendered games with today's hardware and all in real-time.
The point of this thread was to stir TTG enough to consider doing this in 2D instead of using their 3D engine which I find thoroughly frustrating and I don't believe they will exit their cartooned art style accompanying the bad navigation controls - that's my main fear concerning their upcoming KQ.
I certainly agree with you that 3D worlds do have potential, it's all in the art style. When I look at those Myst titles (btw I never played Myst beyond it's 2nd version), I can't help but notice how life-less and character-less the screens are, is it because I know how the artists made the worlds? Is it because I can see the polygons before the object? Is it just the textures or the lighting? Whatever the reason, it's not working for me. As Zounds noted, 2D has a charm and fantastical feel to it.
That screenshot I posted where I asked can you find all the exits, yes there is clearly a door, but you can't see the wall on the left side, so you're not sure immediately if there is another door there or if you can even walk that way.
Also, you're mistaken if you think I dislike 3D games. Are you sure you have read all my posts before posting yourself?
How is knowing where all the exits are the moment you enter a screen the most important part of a game?
Any decent game requires that you make some effort other than just "look around" to find all of the exits from any room.
Just like any decent 3D game would require a bit of exploration on the player's part to visibly spot every possible exit from every area.
Yes, effort is required, I never said it doesn't. But I can tell you a vast majority of players will never think to walk to the right of the screen, they will just assume what you see is what you get and I just call this bad game design because they've effectively disabled the game to a large portion of their supposed market.
You and I would know to move around to all possible locations, it's not obvious to everyone.
Yes, effort is required, I never said it doesn't. But I can tell you a vast majority of players will never think to walk to the right of the screen, they will just assume what you see is what you get and I just call this bad game design because they've effectively disabled the game to a large portion of their supposed market.
You and I would know to move around to all possible locations, it's not obvious to everyone.
Are you serious? If anything gamers today know to look around everywhere more than ever before. They're used to full 3D worlds like RPG's and FPS's. In fact, most of the frustrations and criticisms by outside players seem to be that they can't explore certain areas and they feel too restricted with the minimal exits in a screen. This is regarding Telltale's games.
I have downloaded and played both Monkey Island and BTTF games from TT, both I ended up stopping half way through the first episode because the 3D engine is simply not suitable for adventure games. Adventure games are best designed with a 2D background and preferably a 2D character animation.
I just pretended Monkey Island Tales weren't part of the real franchise and left it alone, just like I did with Monkey Island 4 for mostly the same reason. Then you came out with BTTF, I was excited to hear the news, but that 3D engine kept nagging at the back of my head, I played BTTF and I was right, it's frustrating as hell.
Now TT, you are stepping into fierce territory, you can't just pick up Kings Quest and make it the way you think it's best to. You will be up against the most hardcore of adventure game fans of all time. Kings Quest is meant to be in 2D, it's best in 2D and not only that but you should consider a hard-option by where players have to type in everything, these two should save your arse, if you use your silly 3D engine to make this game, I will have lost any hope for TT. It IS important, it sets the mood, the scene, the users connection with the game. Your puzzles are OK, your stories are fairly good but your engine doesn't work.
I'm not the biggest Kings Quest fan out there, but I am one of the biggest Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry fans out there and I fear if you take Kings Quest down the path of BTTF or MI Tales, then I'll be pissed if you ever take on the likes of LSL and Space Quest. Please do it right.
Look man, I'm not here to burst your bubble, but maybe you're just one of those people who is particular, not everyone is going to agree with you. Tell Tale did a fabulous job with the Monkey Island series, but I'm a hardcore fan of adventures games since they first came out and were text back in the 80's. To step up graphics is a plus and innovative to me. I've played many many adventure games, to name my most favorite: Monkey Island (I've played all of them, never been disappointed.), Kings Quest, Space Quest, Legend of Kyrandia (a huge favorite), Quest for Glory, Indiana Jones, Grim Fandango, and even some games no one's ever heard of. I'm probably the biggest adventure game geek there is and I'd be delighted to see what they can do in 3D, the artwork is fabulous, and I'm saying this from an artist's perspective.
I've never had a problem with 2-D or 3-D adventure games, I'm simply happy that they actually remake such a great story line and adventure that the game is. Bring it on, I just want my games.
You cannot really compare Myst & realMyst the original game was released at a time where effects like in realMyst would have caused even NASA computers to explode instantly. But if I start at Myst 3 and compare that to realMyst... well Exile wins. Fatality. And Myst 4 is and stays to this day the best looking Myst-game. Myst 5 was a huge step backwards. In gameplay and graphics.
Amateria from Exile is still one of my favourite game-locations of all time.
That's true. However, I was trying to show the advancements in graphics. However you look at it realMyst was an improvement over the original. I'd venture to say that graphics hardware today is more than capable of churning out Exile or Myst 4 quality graphics in real time. Again, have you seen the screenshots and gameplay clips of Skyrim?
Again, my point in all of this is that there's a lot of untapped potential. Myst touched on it but didn't go all the way. Yeah, the look of Myst 5 was not as great as Myst 4 or Exile but it offered one huge advantage and that was that you could go anywhere and look at anything from almost any angle. Can't do that in either 3 or 4.
Look man, I'm not here to burst your bubble, but maybe you're just one of those people who is particular, not everyone is going to agree with you. Tell Tale did a fabulous job with the Monkey Island series, but I'm a hardcore fan of adventures games since they first came out and were text back in the 80's. To step up graphics is a plus and innovative to me. I've played many many adventure games, to name my most favorite: Monkey Island (I've played all of them, never been disappointed.), Kings Quest, Space Quest, Legend of Kyrandia (a huge favorite), Quest for Glory, Indiana Jones, Grim Fandango, and even some games no one's ever heard of. I'm probably the biggest adventure game geek there is and I'd be delighted to see what they can do in 3D, the artwork is fabulous, and I'm saying this from an artist's perspective.
I've never had a problem with 2-D or 3-D adventure games, I'm simply happy that they actually remake such a great story line and adventure that the game is. Bring it on, I just want my games.
I'd respond to your opinions, but you obviously read my post and decided to reply without reading the entire thread, either that or you just completely misunderstood what I have been saying. This is like the 3rd time! At least protect yourself by saying "I didn't read the entire thread because I'm lazy but...".
Are you serious? If anything gamers today know to look around everywhere more than ever before. They're used to full 3D worlds like RPG's and FPS's. In fact, most of the frustrations and criticisms by outside players seem to be that they can't explore certain areas and they feel too restricted with the minimal exits in a screen. This is regarding Telltale's games.
Have you ever watched an amateur player play a game that you and I would be familiar with? Holy shit it can get frustrating. Common phrases are: "What do I do, what do I do?", "Where do I go now? I've been everywhere!", "I can't control it, he won't go where I want him to!", "This is too hard" and so on. and as for myself, I have the urge to help, but I want them to solve the problems on their own - that is the point of the game really. Other threads have pointed out that perhaps TTG don't want to alienate a more beginners market, but I firmly believe their engine has actually added problems, not solved them, which I think you agree.
I know 3D has potential, but lets face it, are TTG going to be the first to reach that potential? This is why I'd rather they did KQ in 2D (though to be honest there are SO MANY 2D KQ's now I'm starting to think avid KQ fans would like to see it in 3D, this might be why I'm having a hard time getting my point across).
I did find my source, it's King's Quest collection manual. It says that remake was widely viewed as a critical failure and many reviewers and gamers took offense, because they thought that Sierra was destroying the classics. And the reception stopped future attempts to modernise rest of the King's Quest games.
Unfortunately it doesn't say anything about the other remakes, but IIRC they got similar reception. I remember that I read about that topic somewhere years ago, but can't remember where I saw it. I'll post about it, if I remember.
EDIT: Also Space Quest collection manual mentions briefly that Sierra fans don't want them to modernise the old classics.
I've actually been replaying Dreamfall the last couple of days and I think it does a fabulous job of doing the full 3D thing in an adventure setting. The battle system is totally unnecessary in the game and the control scheme is a bit wonky at times, but other than those issues I think the game is fabulous.
Telltale's engine sucks balls when it comes to controlling the character. Seriously, it's just about the worst thing ever designed. The click-drag-move control scheme is absolutely broken any way you look at it. An abomination of video gaming control schemes.
I understand the logic behind it--that traditional point and click doesn't work well in 3D environments with cinematic camera angles like Telltale uses in most of their games, but seriously...someone needs to be slapped for coming up with this control scheme as the solution. Words can't describe how terrible it is. And believe me, I'm trying.
I find Wallace and Gromit, TMI, The Devil's Playhouse, and BttF all excessively easy to control (and I actually find it preferable to point and click), whether I'm using WASD and mouse, gamepad, or click and drag, so I guess what I'm trying to say is that I completely disagree with everything you've said there in every way possible.
Come on, you have to admit that Marty's run is entirely broken in Back to the Future. That's not a run button, that's an awkward animation and no real noticeable speed change button! It doesn't make sense either, because no other character in any previous game has had their running be so broken.
Come on, you have to admit that Marty's run is entirely broken in Back to the Future. That's not a run button, that's an awkward animation and no real noticeable speed change button! It doesn't make sense either, because no other character in any previous game has had their running be so broken.
Honestly, I haven't even played the game enough yet to really notice. I haven't even started the second episode yet.
I don't think the issue of not being able to find all the exits is exclusive to 3D adventure games. For example, I got stuck for ages in Monkey Island 2 because I didn't know there was an exit leading to the fisherman on Phatt Island and I didn't know there was a path leading up above the waterfall, also on Phatt Island (the path leading up there should make it obvious I know but I remember trying to go up there and failing so I assumed there was nothing up there. Poor adventure gaming form, I admit, but I was young ).
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single 3D adventure game where I got stuck from not being able to find an exit, though I'm not the best example because by the time adventure games were coming out in 3D I was quite experienced.
Point is just because a game is 2D doesn't mean it's void of navigational issues.
Well I'm looking forward to a reinterpretation; hopefully not cartoon disney style like kq7, but something that walks the line between realism and story book style wise. Kq5 and kq6 backgrounds and environment were great but would be much better in 3d if it is done well as an example.
i.e. bad 3d graphics = clipping,textures stand out as being blocky and or seeing the seams in objects, no visual pop, environments and characters don't go together and object placement has trees hovering above ground etc
I don't agree. You can have the exact same fixed camera scene reproduced from KQ5 or any other game but the added natural animations of objects in those scenes would make them very much more alive.
Sorry I only reply to this little part of your post, I'm not trying to make a point here one way or the other, but I was reminded of Myst 4... that game actually had quite nicely animated scenery despite being pre-rendered.
I think it's a bit hard to compare 2D and 3D when it comes to modern games as there haven't been many really high-budget 2D games that push modern machines much at all... I wonder how good a 2D game could look if it was given the same budget as some of the really high budget 3D titles these days.
There are lots of effects and various things they can do to make 2D environments very immersive, I think.
I do agree though that 3D has reached a point now where it really can look gorgeous. My issue with it is that I'm probably more close minded than you are - I feel a first person adventure game controlled just like an FPS game would differ too much from adventure games in the traditional sense.
And traditional adventure games (Sierra mainly) is what I really fell in love with, and still love to this day.
I did enjoy the Myst games though, and many of those are first person with a 360 degree view... so not that far from how you explore in a fully 3D game.
But it kept the simplicity of point & click adventure games with its node based system, point & click controls in other words... that might be part of why I still really like these games, strange as it sounds.
Come to think of it, realMyst was a nice novelty but I have to say I prefer the original Myst game. And Myst 5 (and Uru, if you count that) are probably my least favourite games in the series.
So I have to admit I'm somewhat close-minded regarding this.
EDIT - just thought of one thing I've always loved about hand-painted/drawn graphics that you don't find in 3D games - every background is unique, and every part of every background as well.
As opposed to 3D games where you have textures that repeat.
As much fun as it is to discuss the same stuff that we've been going back and forth about for years, I think it'll be more fun if we get our hopes up about a 2D game and then watch our hopes get crushed. I think the best way to raise hopes is to look at the Hector: Badge of Carnage game, which is a 2D game being adapted to the Telltale Tool. In particular, check out these quotes from Dave Felton and Dave Grossman about the conversion (from an Adventure Gamers interview):
DF: Episode 1 is being remade in the Telltale Tool now. The process has not been too difficult. Straandlooper’s game engine does not have any functionality beyond what the Telltale Tool can do. It’s going to be very hard to tell the difference between the original version and the remake.
DG: Fortunately, there are some magicians over there in the southern corner of our production floor, who are using some sort of perpendicular horizontal two-and-a-half-D craziness to make it work (I don’t know how many other studios use magicians to accomplish production miracles, but I recommend it).
So that's pretty promising. They really could do some cool 2D stuff if they wanted to. The real difficulty though is that their staff is primarily experienced with 3D design and animation, and they also don't necessarily have the time and the budget for elaborate 2D art. Still, I'm sure they'll at least put some consideration toward the possibility of doing this particular license in 2D, do a cost-benefit analysis and whatnot.
I really dont see a whole debate throughout the whole "2D/3D" thing. Besides there are other video games that have used actual hand-drawn animation for video games, to cel shaded video games. Most of the time its done in just CG.
Icedan, what I am saying regardless if this king's quest title is being done in either 2D or 3D it would probably good anyways. Besides I could name a whole bunch of video games that are 2D as well as cel-shaded video games(if your counting those games). Besides, am I the only one who dislikes how the 7th King's quest game had animation similar to likeness of Disney as well as Don Bluth? I always imagined if they were going to do a 2D game of King's quest they do their own style for it.
Who knows, maybe if the first episode does well enough Telltale might consider the idea for it.
Comments
Sorry, I misread your post. Apparently not even full pot of coffee can keep me focused anymore and I have million and one thing to do. Similar thing happened to me last Friday, so the logical conclusions are that either I shouldn't try to write into forums in hurry when I'm tired and have huge amount of work to do or I shouldn't work on Fridays.
Myst was pre-rendered 3D and you "walked" from scene to scene. Again, not what I am complaining about.
I remember when these were in production. They look brilliant. Downloading asap. Thanks.
That is exactly how I feel... Some of those 3D games are pretty awesome when you get to control the camera and really explore your surroundings ... Being able to turn completely around in 2D is a very difficult task.
Radogol summed it up nicely:
I have nothing against 2D. I love it. But I think 3D is just as capable if not more capable of delivering a great adventure experience. It's all in the way it's handled, however. There's no adventure games that I prefer in 3D over 2D because no adventure game company has done it properly yet. The potential is great. The results are few.
Yeah, this is the story as I remember it as well when I was wondering why Sierra didn't remake the rest of the games. They probably didn't cancel the other game remakes because they were already in production.
Again, I have nothing against 2D. KQ5 is my favourite Sierra game half because of the graphics alone. They're fantastic. And like I said above, I'm fighting for the potential of 3D adventuring. Nobody has managed to do it properly and phenomenally yet. We either have pre-rendered static museum-like beauty or cartoony low-quality real-time 3D with restricted camera angles. I dislike both.
You missed his point. That last two Myst games (Myst 5: End of Ages and Uru) were full real-time 3D and not pre-rendered at all. There was also "realMyst" which was an official full 3D remake of the original which looks FAR better. Actually it's a great example of my point earlier about how 3D can look more alive and has more potential than static pre-rendered or hand drawn backgrounds (even with animation). The Stoneship Age in the game was altered to have stormy windy, lightning, and rainy whether and every age had a clock cycle from day to night which really added to the atmosphere. Granted this is early millennium and the graphics are a bit dated now but you can't deny that it looks better than the original at any rate. Imagine what they could do now with today's technology.
Some examples of what I mean:
Myst (original)
realMyst (3D remake)
But let me ask you something, why is pre-rendered ok and real-time not ok? What's the difference? Years ago there was a vast difference as pre-rendered look much better than real-time because of hardware deficiencies at the time, but today you can get basically the same quality (and better!) as all those pre-rendered games with today's hardware and all in real-time.
I'm not a 3D fanboy, I love 2D. But you're really not giving 3D the credit it deserves. It was true in the early 2000's and thereabouts that 3D wasn't that spectacular but it has really grown and has a lot of potential. Look at Heavy Rain, for instance. Now granted, these games make 3D look realistic and that's not necessarily how King's Quest should be portrayed I agree. But just because it's 3D doesn't mean it has to look like Tales of Monkey Island either. 3D is certainly capable of portraying the correct art style in 3D and the right interface as long as the design direction is in the right mindset.
That screenshot I posted where I asked can you find all the exits, yes there is clearly a door, but you can't see the wall on the left side, so you're not sure immediately if there is another door there or if you can even walk that way.
Also, you're mistaken if you think I dislike 3D games. Are you sure you have read all my posts before posting yourself?
The point of this thread was to stir TTG enough to consider doing this in 2D instead of using their 3D engine which I find thoroughly frustrating and I don't believe they will exit their cartooned art style accompanying the bad navigation controls - that's my main fear concerning their upcoming KQ.
I certainly agree with you that 3D worlds do have potential, it's all in the art style. When I look at those Myst titles (btw I never played Myst beyond it's 2nd version), I can't help but notice how life-less and character-less the screens are, is it because I know how the artists made the worlds? Is it because I can see the polygons before the object? Is it just the textures or the lighting? Whatever the reason, it's not working for me. As Zounds noted, 2D has a charm and fantastical feel to it.
How is knowing where all the exits are the moment you enter a screen the most important part of a game?
Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
Any decent game requires that you make some effort other than just "look around" to find all of the exits from any room.
Just like any decent 3D game would require a bit of exploration on the player's part to visibly spot every possible exit from every area.
Yes, effort is required, I never said it doesn't. But I can tell you a vast majority of players will never think to walk to the right of the screen, they will just assume what you see is what you get and I just call this bad game design because they've effectively disabled the game to a large portion of their supposed market.
You and I would know to move around to all possible locations, it's not obvious to everyone.
Are you serious? If anything gamers today know to look around everywhere more than ever before. They're used to full 3D worlds like RPG's and FPS's. In fact, most of the frustrations and criticisms by outside players seem to be that they can't explore certain areas and they feel too restricted with the minimal exits in a screen. This is regarding Telltale's games.
Look man, I'm not here to burst your bubble, but maybe you're just one of those people who is particular, not everyone is going to agree with you. Tell Tale did a fabulous job with the Monkey Island series, but I'm a hardcore fan of adventures games since they first came out and were text back in the 80's. To step up graphics is a plus and innovative to me. I've played many many adventure games, to name my most favorite: Monkey Island (I've played all of them, never been disappointed.), Kings Quest, Space Quest, Legend of Kyrandia (a huge favorite), Quest for Glory, Indiana Jones, Grim Fandango, and even some games no one's ever heard of. I'm probably the biggest adventure game geek there is and I'd be delighted to see what they can do in 3D, the artwork is fabulous, and I'm saying this from an artist's perspective.
I've never had a problem with 2-D or 3-D adventure games, I'm simply happy that they actually remake such a great story line and adventure that the game is. Bring it on, I just want my games.
Amateria from Exile is still one of my favourite game-locations of all time.
Again, my point in all of this is that there's a lot of untapped potential. Myst touched on it but didn't go all the way. Yeah, the look of Myst 5 was not as great as Myst 4 or Exile but it offered one huge advantage and that was that you could go anywhere and look at anything from almost any angle. Can't do that in either 3 or 4.
I'd respond to your opinions, but you obviously read my post and decided to reply without reading the entire thread, either that or you just completely misunderstood what I have been saying. This is like the 3rd time! At least protect yourself by saying "I didn't read the entire thread because I'm lazy but...".
Yup.
Have you ever watched an amateur player play a game that you and I would be familiar with? Holy shit it can get frustrating. Common phrases are: "What do I do, what do I do?", "Where do I go now? I've been everywhere!", "I can't control it, he won't go where I want him to!", "This is too hard" and so on. and as for myself, I have the urge to help, but I want them to solve the problems on their own - that is the point of the game really. Other threads have pointed out that perhaps TTG don't want to alienate a more beginners market, but I firmly believe their engine has actually added problems, not solved them, which I think you agree.
I know 3D has potential, but lets face it, are TTG going to be the first to reach that potential? This is why I'd rather they did KQ in 2D (though to be honest there are SO MANY 2D KQ's now I'm starting to think avid KQ fans would like to see it in 3D, this might be why I'm having a hard time getting my point across).
Unfortunately it doesn't say anything about the other remakes, but IIRC they got similar reception. I remember that I read about that topic somewhere years ago, but can't remember where I saw it. I'll post about it, if I remember.
EDIT: Also Space Quest collection manual mentions briefly that Sierra fans don't want them to modernise the old classics.
No interest in it at all if they stuff it with even more effects than Oblivion that are just annoying and look actually horrible.
I think Skyrim looks great. Exploring Daventry in 3D would be cool, if Daventry is featured
I find Wallace and Gromit, TMI, The Devil's Playhouse, and BttF all excessively easy to control (and I actually find it preferable to point and click), whether I'm using WASD and mouse, gamepad, or click and drag, so I guess what I'm trying to say is that I completely disagree with everything you've said there in every way possible.
Honestly, I haven't even played the game enough yet to really notice. I haven't even started the second episode yet.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single 3D adventure game where I got stuck from not being able to find an exit, though I'm not the best example because by the time adventure games were coming out in 3D I was quite experienced.
Point is just because a game is 2D doesn't mean it's void of navigational issues.
i.e. bad 3d graphics = clipping,textures stand out as being blocky and or seeing the seams in objects, no visual pop, environments and characters don't go together and object placement has trees hovering above ground etc
I think it's a bit hard to compare 2D and 3D when it comes to modern games as there haven't been many really high-budget 2D games that push modern machines much at all... I wonder how good a 2D game could look if it was given the same budget as some of the really high budget 3D titles these days.
There are lots of effects and various things they can do to make 2D environments very immersive, I think.
I do agree though that 3D has reached a point now where it really can look gorgeous. My issue with it is that I'm probably more close minded than you are - I feel a first person adventure game controlled just like an FPS game would differ too much from adventure games in the traditional sense.
And traditional adventure games (Sierra mainly) is what I really fell in love with, and still love to this day.
I did enjoy the Myst games though, and many of those are first person with a 360 degree view... so not that far from how you explore in a fully 3D game.
But it kept the simplicity of point & click adventure games with its node based system, point & click controls in other words... that might be part of why I still really like these games, strange as it sounds.
Come to think of it, realMyst was a nice novelty but I have to say I prefer the original Myst game. And Myst 5 (and Uru, if you count that) are probably my least favourite games in the series.
So I have to admit I'm somewhat close-minded regarding this.
EDIT - just thought of one thing I've always loved about hand-painted/drawn graphics that you don't find in 3D games - every background is unique, and every part of every background as well.
As opposed to 3D games where you have textures that repeat.
So that's pretty promising. They really could do some cool 2D stuff if they wanted to. The real difficulty though is that their staff is primarily experienced with 3D design and animation, and they also don't necessarily have the time and the budget for elaborate 2D art. Still, I'm sure they'll at least put some consideration toward the possibility of doing this particular license in 2D, do a cost-benefit analysis and whatnot.
Who knows, maybe if the first episode does well enough Telltale might consider the idea for it.