Traditional animation vs. 3D animation...
I am not that big of King's quest, but I have seen bits of pieces of the games. The only game of King's quest that I remember playing was the 7th one, and that one was the Princeless Bride. I'm not that big into the animation of that one(Since I dislike it when people mimic the Disney style) but my sister likes it and it reminds her of Don Bluth's style. I know the game is likely to be done in 3D but will there be certain parts of the game that will use 2D? Or even better, used for the cutscenes of the game? It would be sweet if that would happen.
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SBCG4AP had some 2D effects and it was made with the Telltale Tool, too. And all of Puzzle Agent is in 2D.
This is true. I guess I just don't imagine that's the direction they'll take KQ, but I guess only time will tell.
http://kyucon.com/qblock/#/16396
A realistic look would make for a jarring change of tone in the series. You can't get away with some of the things in KQ in an Elder Scrolls like hyper real game. Just TRY to imagine cedric flying in Oblivion (it is not recommended to do this more than three times in one day as it can cause insanity).
It would be interesting though for Telltale to try a new artistic style with this one, but I would much rather have it be somewhat cartoony and have them focus more on making the gameplay more like a Sierra game and less like Lucas Arts. (i.e. the heavy exploration and open world feel Sierra game tended to have)
No just a rabbit, a POISONOUS rabbit!
You mean like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg
exactely.
that would be cool
When I say traditional artwork I'm not directly referring to King's Quest VII... It wouldn't necessarily have to be cartoony, it could look visually realistic but hand drawn rather than CG'ish.
Opinions? They'll have to be just that, because Telltale will likely opt for CGI rather than animation rather than hire different animators.
Yes, you are. In my entire life, I have never seen an adventure game fan preferring 2d artwork to 3d. Ever. What a weird individual you are.
They never explained... Now I understand why.
Well... first of, the main player character isn't modeled and rendered in 3D... And there is no cruising, and it does not make use of 3D camera angles. True, there are some 3D animations in the background sometimes but it's done to make fluent animations (which is funny since Grickle was never known for its fluent animations). Overall it's a 2D game.
If I was mistaken about the game being 3D I apologize, but my intention was to point out that the game appears to be more hand drawn than 3D CGI. There aren't lots of 3D camera angles, there isn't a lot of wide open environments with CG animations... The game looks like it was drawn by hand where the other games look like they were sculpted on a computer.
I got that your real question was more about the look, rather than the technology behind it. So, no, you're not the only one -- I would like KQ to have more of a hand-drawn look. But it's not a huge issue for me, not nearly as important as getting the gameplay right.
I just pretended Monkey Island Tales weren't part of the real franchise and left it alone, just like I did with Monkey Island 4 for mostly the same reason. Then you came out with BTTF, I was excited to hear the news, but that 3D engine kept nagging at the back of my head, I played BTTF and I was right, it's frustrating as hell.
Now TT, you are stepping into fierce territory, you can't just pick up Kings Quest and make it the way you think it's best to. You will be up against the most hardcore of adventure game fans of all time. Kings Quest is meant to be in 2D, it's best in 2D and not only that but you should consider a hard-option by where players have to type in everything, these two should save your arse, if you use your silly 3D engine to make this game, I will have lost any hope for TT. It IS important, it sets the mood, the scene, the users connection with the game. Your puzzles are OK, your stories are fairly good but your engine doesn't work.
I'm not the biggest Kings Quest fan out there, but I am one of the biggest Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry fans out there and I fear if you take Kings Quest down the path of BTTF or MI Tales, then I'll be pissed if you ever take on the likes of LSL and Space Quest. Please do it right.
If we don't speak out, then there's no hope for change. I don't think they are even aware how bad their engine is compared to a simple 2D adventure game.
Grim Fandango is one of the greatest adventure games of all time and it was 3D with pre-rendered backgrounds. I'd like to hear some of your reasons why you believe 'Adventure games are best designed with a flat 2D background.' I can't think of single thing a 2D adventure game can do that a 3D one can't.
Grim Fandango, as you said, has pre-rendered 2D Backgrounds, it never got frustrating. Same goes for The Longest Journey. It's ok if its pre-rendered.
Maybe others here can help me, but off the top of my head:
1. A LOT of detail can be put into the scenes.
2. Detail adds to the gameplay value, there's a sense of adventure and exploration.
3. It looks better.
4. It's easier to navigate when you can see where everything is at once and know where all your exits are, I found in TT games, it wasn't always clear where the other rooms are or where exactly you are standing in a particular room (the Doc's house in BTTF comes to mind).
5. Moving the character around in 3D space can get very frustrating, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for those who are not experienced with moving in 3D, it would totally alienate them.
Flat World:
3D World:
Flat World:
3D World:
Can you see where all the exits are in this screen?
Yeah, that was a really bad comparison. I was just thinking the same thing. They both use 3D characters on 2D backgrounds.
It seems to me what you dislike more than 3D vs. 2D is a cartoon aesthetic vs. a realistic one. The only difference in "detail" in the examples you've shown has to do with the art direction, not the engine.
Granted, I'd love to see a KQ game with hand-painted 2D backgrounds in 1080p. That would be a dream come true. But no one will ever do it, unfortunately. It just doesn't fit the current model for what a video game is supposed to be.
I don't care if it's cartooned (although I prefer it not to be), but you've missed the point if you think that's why I dislike 3D.
So are Escape's.
All right, but that's a design choice, not something that results from using real-time graphics over pre-baked ones.
Are you serious? *mind blown*.
It's true that 3D of 90's hasn't aged particularly well, although it looked nice back then. However many more recent adventures which use 3D graphics don't look that badly aged, I still think that, for example, Syberia II (2004) has pretty graphics.
Besides these days most adventure games are either 3D or use 3D graphics which are disguised to look like 2D and real 2D is rarity. So I don't see why KQ should use real 2D.
Also I would find it suitable that new game would use similar style as first four KQ games, which were advertised as 3D games, although this time with real 3D graphics.
btw, 3D graphics these days are still as terrible as they have been for a long time. I have a strong feeling most graphic designers do not want to use 3D to make their games because they know it downgrades the overall quality, in other words, it has no feeling, no character, art requires finer touches than modeled shapes and rendered textures.
Modern 3D looks fine to me and IMO works well in the adventure games. I think that if you're trying to create illusion of three dimensional space (which most adventures try to do, no matter if those games are 2D or 3D games) you might as well use real 3D environment. Only problems which come to my mind are that sometimes when game uses 3D characters and 2D backgrounds those characters don't quite fit, but luckily there are plenty of games which have solved that problem. And sometimes games with full 3D graphics are rather heavy and need lot of resources.