Programming wise, I'd imagine the easiest method would be to have a switchable auto-save feature. Saving the game manually comes as default, so no extra programming needed there. All we need really is an option for those who don't like dying and loading a save from 10 minutes ago.
The auto-save feature will enable the game to save when you do something that kills you and puts you back right before you made that deadly action. Unfortunately, this method would probably not work under timed events or falling.
Although I like how LucasArts handled deaths in Monkey Island, it's just not fitting for Kings Quest.
I voted other. I think it should be A, with an unskippable warning at the beginning of the game that informs you that there may be surprise deaths and that you should save frequently.
Both of them? I thought only The Last Crusade had dead ends. I thought every game starting with Loom was impossible to make unwinnable.
No no, I was saying that in the Indy games, you could DIE. I wasn't talking about putting the game in an unwinnable state.
Zak McKracken was the only Lucasfilm game that I can think of that really had bad dead ends in it. I'm actually pretty sure there are no true dead ends in Last Crusade. The original Maniac Mansion may have had some dead ends in it, too, but I can't really remember.
I don't know, I'd consider it pretty damn impossible to win a game when you're dead.
Well you could definitely die in Fate of Atlantis. You could be shot, killed in fights, fall prey to booby traps, eaten by a giant octopus, fall into a pool of lava, etc.
IIRC, in the first releases of Monkey Island you could only use one or two objects to create the flaming mass.
I think one of the ways this was (partially) fixed was that you eventually get an infinite stack of Stan's business cards, since he gives you one every time you leave, but if you know what you're doing, you never get enough business cards for the infinite stack to happen.
And that's why it can be a dead end. It's possible to put everything that you can turning into the flaming mass into the cooking pot before finally setting off the spell and thus being trapped just off the coast of Monkey Island. I'm pretty certain it's doable in any version of the game since I did it in the Monkey Madness CD edition (I never tested for it in the Special Edition, but I'd bet it's still possible there as well).
Now that I've said that you are correct and thus confirmed your superiority, SHODANFreeman, may I please be given a free pass for when you finally snap and kill us all? Between your handle and your avatar, I seriously fear for my life.
And that's why it can be a dead end. It's possible to put everything that you can turning into the flaming mass into the cooking pot before finally setting off the spell and thus being trapped just off the coast of Monkey Island. I'm pretty certain it's doable in any version of the game since I did it in the Monkey Madness CD edition (I never tested for it in the Special Edition, but I'd bet it's still possible there as well).
I still think there has to be something you can burn even after making the spell. If you're saying the flaming mass burns out over time (which I haven't confirmed yet) I still think there's something of inventory you can acquire while on the ship that you still can get enough of after the spell (perhaps rope or cereal) to make a flaming mass, and that you simply hadn't tried enough things to burn.
I still think there has to be something you can burn even after making the spell. If you're saying the flaming mass burns out over time (which I haven't confirmed yet) I still think there's something of inventory you can acquire while on the ship that you still can get enough of after the spell (perhaps rope or cereal) to make a flaming mass, and that you simply hadn't tried enough things to burn.
You can add extra ingredients to the pot without destroying the spell. As long as you hold on to one required item until the end, you can put everything that's burnable in the pot and thus create a dead end. The rope can't be used (it's an infinite fuse source only) and the cereal isn't flammable. The big error I think is that the two unnecessary pieces of literature (the ones not about getting ahead in navigation) can't be used either (I think because making it that obvious which one is important would spoil the joke).
That very dead end, apparently. Feel free to test it. In order to duplicate my conditions as closely as possible, you must NOT get an endless number of business cards from Stan, you can NOT buy the dance map, and finally you have to put everything you can into the cooking pot before adding the last necessary ingredient to trigger the spell.
So...uh...why does there have to be the potential for death again?
Yeah, I get it, death is a part of the old Sierra games, but I always thought one strength of Lucasarts above Sierra was that the player wasn't penalized for exploring, and it seems like the Telltale developers subscribe to that philosophy.
For crying out loud, in KQ5, there were so many instances of bad game design I almost quit playing it in the middle. Merely walking into the pub gets you killed - not throwing a boot at the cat - etc.
As long as they have some type of maze, I'm happy.
Because in King's Quest you were penalized for all your actions. That was part of it. That was the idea. You're in a whole dangerous world with consequences. It was risky. And it was exciting.
In order to duplicate my conditions as closely as possible, you must NOT get an endless number of business cards from Stan, you can NOT buy the dance map, and finally you have to put everything you can into the cooking pot before adding the last necessary ingredient to trigger the spell.
Wait, you may be right after all. But how can you not buy the map and still find the treasure?
Now that I've said that you are correct and thus confirmed your superiority, SHODANFreeman, may I please be given a free pass for when you finally snap and kill us all? Between your handle and your avatar, I seriously fear for my life.
No free passes left, unfortunately, but I do still have a 50% off coupon, if you're interested in that.
Yes, you are. If you try to go in before getting the map or following the shopkeeper Guybrush refuses to go in the forest after a couple screens unless he has "...some kind of guide or something."
For me, the ideal solution would be to include lots of deaths, just as in earlier Kings Quest games... but have an (optional!) autosave where the game will automatically save whenever you reach somewhere potentially dangerous.
They could even include a third option that simply allowed to you to press 'continue' whenever you died and simply keep playing, but that would have to be OPTIONAL!
But yeah, as long as those things are fully optional, I wouldn't mind at all.
I can't imagine it being very difficult to implement, either.
EDIT - One more thought regarding this - if Sierra was still around, and still making adventure games... I have to admit I'm doubtful they themselves would have continued their old trend of lots of deaths everywhere you go. Maybe they would, but I think chances are they would have changed a lot of things you find in their classic, old games.
Well, who knows, and pretty irrelevant anyway.
No free passes left, unfortunately, but I do still have a 50% off coupon, if you're interested in that.
That depends; do I get to pick which half? :cool:
Anyways, like everyone's said, the forest becomes open to Guybrush after you get the map or follow the shopkeeper. Both the Sword Master and the X marking the spot (don't tell Indiana) are always in the same place. As such, the map is not necessary, even on your first playthrough if you wander enough.
tbh, on my very first playthrough I found the Sword Master quite by accident. I didn't even realize you could follow the storekeeper until I read about it somewhere later.
Well, I say give all the options - but, as a reward, you get a different ending with each level of difficulty. If you have the easy Auto-Save route, the ending is standard. With the medium (occasional Auto-Save?) difficulty, you get a special bonus ending - and with the third, Classic Hard (No Save) mode, you get the best ending with all the bells and whistles. It gives incentive to play it at the harder levels.
Well, I say give all the options - but, as a reward, you get a different ending with each level of difficulty. If you have the easy Auto-Save route, the ending is standard. With the medium (occasional Auto-Save?) difficulty, you get a special bonus ending - and with the third, Classic Hard (No Save) mode, you get the best ending with all the bells and whistles. It gives incentive to play it at the harder levels.
I'm not saying deaths are annoying, I'm saying removing auto-save and forcing people to manually save is annoying, and not beneficial in any way to the game experience, nor does it in any tangible way increase difficulty.
Comments
The auto-save feature will enable the game to save when you do something that kills you and puts you back right before you made that deadly action. Unfortunately, this method would probably not work under timed events or falling.
Although I like how LucasArts handled deaths in Monkey Island, it's just not fitting for Kings Quest.
Lastly, Space Quest 3 Deaths ftw
Err, handled deaths by not having them? (10 minute one doesn't count)
I think so, and I think there was also one where you could burn all of your items on the ship and be unable to light the cannon.
He dies in MI2, also, and it cuts back to him and Elaine with a "wait that's not how it happened" moment.
Yeah, I went there. Sorry.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeRZEnn2Fc
enjoy
I dead-ended on the ship once myself (I hadn't gotten the map in Chapter One and wound up with nothing to turn into a flaming mass).
Both of them? I thought only The Last Crusade had dead ends. I thought every game starting with Loom was impossible to make unwinnable.
No no, I was saying that in the Indy games, you could DIE. I wasn't talking about putting the game in an unwinnable state.
Zak McKracken was the only Lucasfilm game that I can think of that really had bad dead ends in it. I'm actually pretty sure there are no true dead ends in Last Crusade. The original Maniac Mansion may have had some dead ends in it, too, but I can't really remember.
Well you could definitely die in Fate of Atlantis. You could be shot, killed in fights, fall prey to booby traps, eaten by a giant octopus, fall into a pool of lava, etc.
Nothing? you can turn Stan's card(s) or the cereal box top or various other things into a flaming mass. You don't need the map for that.
Yeah, I always used the feather pen from the captain's quarters.
You can put all of those into the cooking pot.
But that's a spoof of the deaths in the Sierra games.
I think one of the ways this was (partially) fixed was that you eventually get an infinite stack of Stan's business cards, since he gives you one every time you leave, but if you know what you're doing, you never get enough business cards for the infinite stack to happen.
And that's why it can be a dead end. It's possible to put everything that you can turning into the flaming mass into the cooking pot before finally setting off the spell and thus being trapped just off the coast of Monkey Island. I'm pretty certain it's doable in any version of the game since I did it in the Monkey Madness CD edition (I never tested for it in the Special Edition, but I'd bet it's still possible there as well).
Now that I've said that you are correct and thus confirmed your superiority, SHODANFreeman, may I please be given a free pass for when you finally snap and kill us all? Between your handle and your avatar, I seriously fear for my life.
How much are you willing to bet?
It was removed in the Special Edition.
I still think there has to be something you can burn even after making the spell. If you're saying the flaming mass burns out over time (which I haven't confirmed yet) I still think there's something of inventory you can acquire while on the ship that you still can get enough of after the spell (perhaps rope or cereal) to make a flaming mass, and that you simply hadn't tried enough things to burn.
What was removed?
You can add extra ingredients to the pot without destroying the spell. As long as you hold on to one required item until the end, you can put everything that's burnable in the pot and thus create a dead end. The rope can't be used (it's an infinite fuse source only) and the cereal isn't flammable. The big error I think is that the two unnecessary pieces of literature (the ones not about getting ahead in navigation) can't be used either (I think because making it that obvious which one is important would spoil the joke).
That very dead end, apparently. Feel free to test it. In order to duplicate my conditions as closely as possible, you must NOT get an endless number of business cards from Stan, you can NOT buy the dance map, and finally you have to put everything you can into the cooking pot before adding the last necessary ingredient to trigger the spell.
Yeah, I get it, death is a part of the old Sierra games, but I always thought one strength of Lucasarts above Sierra was that the player wasn't penalized for exploring, and it seems like the Telltale developers subscribe to that philosophy.
For crying out loud, in KQ5, there were so many instances of bad game design I almost quit playing it in the middle. Merely walking into the pub gets you killed - not throwing a boot at the cat - etc.
As long as they have some type of maze, I'm happy.
Wait, you may be right after all. But how can you not buy the map and still find the treasure?
The Grog machine dead end was removed for sure.
No free passes left, unfortunately, but I do still have a 50% off coupon, if you're interested in that.
You can find the treasure after following the shopkeeper into the forest, as you're no longer restricted from going in.
By stumbling around randomly? Is that even mathematically possible?
You're never restricted from going in.
They could even include a third option that simply allowed to you to press 'continue' whenever you died and simply keep playing, but that would have to be OPTIONAL!
But yeah, as long as those things are fully optional, I wouldn't mind at all.
I can't imagine it being very difficult to implement, either.
EDIT - One more thought regarding this - if Sierra was still around, and still making adventure games... I have to admit I'm doubtful they themselves would have continued their old trend of lots of deaths everywhere you go. Maybe they would, but I think chances are they would have changed a lot of things you find in their classic, old games.
Well, who knows, and pretty irrelevant anyway.
The path is the same every time, so once you know the forest, you hardly need the map to find the treasure.
What do you mean randomly? Back left right, Left right back, Right left back (cha cha cha!)
It's not random.
That depends; do I get to pick which half? :cool:
Anyways, like everyone's said, the forest becomes open to Guybrush after you get the map or follow the shopkeeper. Both the Sword Master and the X marking the spot (don't tell Indiana) are always in the same place. As such, the map is not necessary, even on your first playthrough if you wander enough.
Bt
Annoying =/= hard.
Both inequalities = subjective statements.
I'm not saying deaths are annoying, I'm saying removing auto-save and forcing people to manually save is annoying, and not beneficial in any way to the game experience, nor does it in any tangible way increase difficulty.