Success Kills Creativity

edited August 2013 in The Walking Dead
400 days = worst episode to date easily

the writing is terrible, the characters aren't nearly as developed because you spend so little time with each of them, they re-use dramatic scenarios from season 1, even more restrictive "gameplay", and the illusion of choice is even more glaring in this one

I warned you all about this with my previous thread. all the popularity, awards and outpouring of love may have gotten to their heads and ruined this franchise. when someone experiences that much mainstream success they tend to get complacent and rest on their laurels. if this episode is any indication of how season 2 will be, I might have to pass
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Comments

  • edited July 2013
    I thought the writing was fine, but the voice acting wasn't as good. The characters didn't sound like they were really going through their situations, and that took me out of the immersion. For example, when some characters were going through pain, it didn't sound like they actually were. Compared to Season 1, whenever a character was injured they truly sounded like it.

    I don't care about choices, i never played the game for that.

    Success can ruin creativity, but it hasn't happened here. Not every project someone makes will be a success, and it's ludicrous to think otherwise.
  • edited July 2013
    bogey_j wrote: »
    400 days = worst episode to date easily

    the writing is terrible, the characters aren't nearly as developed because you spend so little time with each of them, they re-use dramatic scenarios from season 1, and the illusion of choice is even more glaring in this one

    I warned you all about this with my previous thread. all the popularity, awards and outpouring of love may have gotten to their heads and ruined this franchise. when someone experiences that much mainstream success they tend to get complacent and rest on their laurels. if this episode is any indication of how season 2 will be, I might have to pass

    Your crazy it was fine. Its because it was meant to look at other peoples lifes in the ZA. In 1-5 it was long story with 2 main. Season 2 will be still good trust me on this.
  • Blind SniperBlind Sniper Moderator
    edited July 2013
    I thought it was great.
  • edited July 2013
    we gotta remember this is only a DLC,and a damn good one at that,anyone played 'heavy rain DLC'? it lasts like 10 minutes LOL each 20 minute episode feels like a tease because in reality it is,im sure all answers will come with season 2,and the cornfield episode was awesome...my only gripe would be with what they are building upto in season 2 having a Crawford type place,been there done that with S1 and the tv show :/
  • edited July 2013
    I thought the writing was good. The voice acting itself wasn't the best at times, but for the most part the interactions seemed fluid and real to me. It wasn't as good as Season 1, but I feel that it was a worthy addition to the franchise.
  • edited July 2013
    You have to give Telltale some credit for trying out new things with this DLC, such as different gameplay mechanics. It's a good thing we didn't see 5 different versions of Lee walking around pointing and clicking stuff to solve puzzles. I felt that the gameplay was different in EACH story.

    Even though the ending was a little shaky, Telltale took sort of a risk of "testing" new gameplay mechanics that might play out in future TWD episodes. That's what I really liked about the DLC.
  • edited July 2013
    I like how the only choices for you ignorant poll reflect your ignorance itself, it's bassicly "you can only choose to disagree with me and say this DLC is better than the entirety of season one, or agree with me, but just say it in 4 different ways"
  • edited July 2013
    stevean2 wrote: »
    I like how the only choices for you ignorant poll reflect your ignorance itself, it's bassicly "you can only choose to disagree with me and say this DLC is better than the entirety of season one, or agree with me, but just say it in 4 different ways"

    sounds like the 4th option is for you dipshit
  • edited July 2013
    bogey_j wrote: »
    sounds like the 4th option is for you dipshit

    Jeez, sounds like someone can't respect an opinion!
  • edited July 2013
    bogey_j wrote: »
    400 days = worst episode to date easily

    the writing is terrible, the characters aren't nearly as developed because you spend so little time with each of them, they re-use dramatic scenarios from season 1, even more restrictive "gameplay", and the illusion of choice is even more glaring in this one

    I warned you all about this with my previous thread. all the popularity, awards and outpouring of love may have gotten to their heads and ruined this franchise. when someone experiences that much mainstream success they tend to get complacent and rest on their laurels. if this episode is any indication of how season 2 will be, I might have to pass

    ...well, I don't think I'd go that far, but I do agree that the short story format prevents the player from becoming immersed in the same way he/she could with Lee. "Illusion of choice" is a very real issue in THE WALKING DEAD, although different fans have different opinions about it.

    I prefer to see 400 DAYS as an experiment by Telltale that wasn't entirely successful, but a welcome treat all the same.
  • edited July 2013
    What are you talking about? I don't think this was the absolute BEST episode, but it certainly wasn't even close to being badly written. Even though we had so little time to get to know the characters, quite a few of the choices felt very real to me and there were some intense moments that made me go ;O The only complaints that I have about this DLC is that it was a bit shorter than what I expected and a few freezes in the ps3 version. I hope TellTale adds this to their "To-Do list" and fix those bugs and freezes for season 2.
  • edited July 2013
    400 Days is meant to be an introduction and a small taste of what's to come. We're not supposed to get to know these characters as well yet, it's just something to whet our appetite and pave the way for Season 2. They've always been upfront about this. I think this is just a matter of you having an inaccurate expectation of what the episode is supposed to be.

    I agree it's not the greatest episode in the series - how could it be? In fact, I don't even think it should be considered an "episode". It's a series of shorts. Bonus scenes. Some are more effective than others, but they're all better written and better acted than most of what I've seen in videogames recently.
  • edited July 2013
    I enjoyed 400 Days. It was a fun little taste before the next main course.
  • edited July 2013
    It's okay, 400 days will probably be amazing when season 2 comes out...maybe...
  • edited July 2013
    I thought it was really good and made me even more excited for the season 2. I dont know what the first poster is talking about, lol.
  • edited July 2013
    The writing was fine but i'd say telltale was really ambitious when they wanted to introduce 5 different characters stories in bearly 15 minutes (specially when it took like 2 hours to introduce lee lol).

    Personally i would've used 400 days as a chance to test a new formula, you know change some of the game mechanics, maybe the quicktime decisions? i always wanted to have different outcomes in the scenarios depending on how fast/well you clicked everything, it doesn't has to be everytime the "oh you shot every zombie guess what X person still died, or Y still got left behind".

    Introducing more puzzles and an fps camera when in shooting zombies scenes would've been nice too.
  • edited July 2013
    I enjoyed it. I thought if gave a mini walking dead experience kind of like the webisodes you can watch on line that are set around the tv shows seasons and for £3.36 I definitely couldn't complain.
  • edited July 2013
    Success kills creativity is daft.

    As a counter lets use - no success means no more Walking Dead.

    Personally i thought 400 Days was fine.
  • edited July 2013
    Of course the characters aren't as developed as the ones in season one, and you said it yourself, it's because we don't spend much time with them. But we're not supposed to, and we're not supposed to get the same emotional attachment that we did with Lee and Clem and Kenny. These are just little side stories. I thought it was cool how they were all tied together, because in my first playthough I did not see a whole lot of connection besides it centering around the gas station. But after reading a little bit on here and going through it for a second time, I see a lot, and it takes a lot of effort on the writers' parts to make that work without being contradictory.
  • edited July 2013
    Plus, I think there is a really good chance we'll be seeing at least some of these characters again, and we'll really get in-depth with their stories, just like Lee's.
  • edited July 2013
    I don't think the writing was bad, it's just hard to match the heights of a season arc when covering five different characters and an epilogue. The format might have worked against them, but could they really beat the best episode of The Walking Dead in a oneshot of any story? Probably not.

    Someone mentioned the Heavy Rain DLC. That was a repackaged tech demo for the game. It's not going to be anything like the full game because there is no substance, it just shows off mechanics. What is the DLC of Walking Dead? A trailer. Here you meet five characters, none of whom will be that important to the second season (since they can be there or not depending on your save) and - more importantly - learn of a community.

    So there, that's what this boils down to: more of the same, less development and a twelve second hook for season 2. But what hasn't changed? THE WRITING.
  • edited July 2013
    I mean let's be serious, can someone name anything from the entire Walking Dead franchise that was as good as Episode 5, I really can't so when it was not better I was not upset as my aim was lower, just saying.
  • edited July 2013
    bogey_j wrote: »
    400 days = worst episode to date easily

    the writing is terrible, the characters aren't nearly as developed because you spend so little time with each of them, they re-use dramatic scenarios from season 1, even more restrictive "gameplay", and the illusion of choice is even more glaring in this one

    I warned you all about this with my previous thread. all the popularity, awards and outpouring of love may have gotten to their heads and ruined this franchise. when someone experiences that much mainstream success they tend to get complacent and rest on their laurels. if this episode is any indication of how season 2 will be, I might have to pass

    I disagree on quite a few points, but I don't think you're completely wrong. Many games and movies get lazy after being huge hits, but it is not an inevitable doom. And I think a lot of your points aren't exactly supportive to your argument.

    I don't think the writing was "terrible." The biggest problem was that doing five short stories instead of one long one doesn't give room for emotionally resonant stories like Lee's story was. If anything, the thing that bothered me about the writing was the excess of profanity. Profanity can be used well in writing, but they were just flinging words left and right here. It needed more restraint.

    Well DUH the characters aren't as developed. We only got ten to twenty minutes a piece with each of them. If Lee's story started off with only ten minutes, we would have said the same for him.

    I wouldn't say they "re-used" dramatic situations. One flaw of the zombie genre is that there isn't A TON of options available for dramatic storytelling. Look back on just about any zombie movie in the last ten years and you can see how most of them follow similar patterns. New stuff can be introduced, but more often than not the stuff that is used are just staples of the genre. Sometimes they are great and sometimes they don't work as well.

    I hate the argument about if TWD is a game or not. Look, you play it! You use buttons, a movement stick and the controller. It is a game. Not all games have to have fast and frenetic controls. Sometimes the slower, more methodical type of gameplay is just as compelling if not more so. Yes you do a lot of watching in this game, but it is the same with Metal Gear and those games are great. It is interactive fiction, but that is still by the strictest of definitions a game! And I don't even feel that it is restrictive. It is no less restrictive than any other game with a forward moving story.

    Which leads me to the illusion of choice comment. ALL GAMES ARE ILLUSIONS OF CHOICE! If anyone tells you that you will have infinite number of choices in a game, it's a lie. Games are programs and as such they are limited to whatever the developer puts into them. Just because they tell you that your choice matters doesn't mean it will, because most times it will not. Even games like Mass Effect, KOTOR and some of the best multiple choice games of all time are illusions. All the same main story beats will happen regardless of what you choose. GTA and Red Dead equally a lie because they give you lots of options, but there is really only one route to go to actually finish the game. Just running around the sandbox blowing stuff up isn't freedom of choice.

    I'm sorry you have convinced yourself success leads to failure, because I don't think that is true at all. It sets up expectations no doubt, but it also gives the room to expand. GTA IV would not been nearly the terrific game it was without the success of the previous games. Mass Effect 2 would not have been such an amazing improvement without the first game's success. There are many games that can attribute the same. So I think you are on your own here.
  • edited July 2013
    I mean let's be serious, can someone name anything from the entire Walking Dead franchise that was as good as Episode 5, I really can't so when it was not better I was not upset as my aim was lower, just saying.

    I honestly thought Episode 2 was the best. Episode 5 was depressing but tense situations hit me harder then depressing ones. It's just the feeling of uneasiness, how everything turns to shit and you have to fight the dairy farmers that you thought would help you, the fact how much the game fucks with you, all the gory choices, it was just such a great episode that truly put me on edge the most.
  • edited July 2013
    If anything, the thing that bothered me about the writing was the excess of profanity. Profanity can be used well in writing, but they were just flinging words left and right here. It needed more restraint.

    I didnt think it was excessive at all. It fit the characters. In any case, it was no more than in season 1.
  • edited July 2013
    KCohere wrote: »
    I didnt think it was excessive at all. It fit the characters. In any case, it was no more than in season 1.

    Yeah Season 1 had quite a bit, but I felt it was a bit more spread out and well used. It felt like they crammed it a little too much in this story to the point it lost its effectiveness. Even if it fits the character, there is such a thing as smart profanity usage.
  • edited July 2013
    zgamer wrote: »
    Yeah Season 1 had quite a bit, but I felt it was a bit more spread out and well used. It felt like they crammed it a little too much in this story to the point it lost its effectiveness. Even if it fits the character, there is such a thing as smart profanity usage.

    Well, I guess that kind of thing doesnt bother me or Im used to it. I read and hear cursing all the time in the books, tv and movies and video games. I barely even noticed.
  • edited July 2013
    While 400 Days wasn't as good as Season One, it was still a nice addition to the series but each story was so short they lasted between 12-23 minutes.

    Still, it only cost me 400 MSP so I can't complain it was a reasonable price like the rest of the other episodes.
  • edited July 2013
    I mean let's be serious, can someone name anything from the entire Walking Dead franchise that was as good as Episode 5, I really can't so when it was not better I was not upset as my aim was lower, just saying.

    The governor arc is still my favorite moment in the Walking Dead franchise.
  • edited July 2013
    SPOILERS FOR 400 DAYS!

    I wanted to start off by mentioning something the OP said,this is where the spoiler comes into play,if you haven't played or seen 400 Days to the end do not read on,anyway the OP mentioned illusion of choice again,but our decisions in 400 Days affected the characters lives,they decided whether the characters stayed or left with Tavia,for example,if as Vince you shot Justin's foot off he wouldn't leave with Tavia,but if you shot off Danny's foot then he would.

    I think that which characters left and which didn't will affect season 2,I mean the characters that did leave we could find at the community,while the ones that didn't (if any) we would find dead at the camp,possibly.
  • edited July 2013
    Ugh I can't stand people like the OP. This wasn't supposed to be "season 1 caliber" it was meant as a small extra to tide fans over.
  • edited July 2013
    I have had enough of the illusion of choice, it worked better here then in the main game, so would people just quit it, sorry if I am being rude but it's been done to death already.
  • edited July 2013
    I have had enough of the illusion of choice, it worked better here then in the main game, so would people just quit it, sorry if I am being rude but it's been done to death already.

    If you were referring to me then I apologize,unless you mean the first poster,but if it was me then I am sorry I was just ponting out that it was good here.
  • edited July 2013
    No you, you see alright, I mean the first poster and he EXTREME hatred for 400 day's.
  • edited July 2013
    No you, you see alright, I mean the first poster and he EXTREME hatred for 400 day's.

    Oh sorry,but just letting you know I really enjoyed 400 Days,I think it was excellent.
  • edited July 2013
    OH and LOL @ him saying that it being successful has ruined the game. If it wouldn't have been successful they would have stopped making them.
  • edited July 2013
    I thought it was excellent to, it was just 89 out of ten, caparison wise, Episode 1 was 90, 2 was 90, 3 was 95, 4 was 95, and five was 100, at least I thought it was.
  • edited July 2013
    I thought it was excellent to, it was just 89 out of ten, caparison wise, Episode 1 was 90, 2 was 90, 3 was 95, 4 was 95, and five was 100, at least I thought it was.

    I completely agree,it just got better and better.
  • edited July 2013
    Well, you can't expect to get the kind of character development of 400 days to be the same as Episodes 1 through 5 because it literally takes you about 2-3 eps in to actually feel for the characters (in my case). 400 days had multiple characters that I thought were really nice additions to this universe and some of them I thought weren't. Overall though, I wouldn't go as far as to say I completely hated 400 days. It was a nice addition and an incredible tease for Season 2.
  • edited July 2013
    I liked it. Naturally it would be nice if you would have more time to explore the characters, but where Episodes 1-5 are like a serial novel, this is like small collection of short stories. In this type of storytelling you aren't supposed to explore the characters in detail, but it's more about glimpses about specific situations. Some people like this style of narrative and others don't, but most can enjoy both styles.

    Also I don't think it as a quick cash-in (because TTG gave it to me as a free bonus, but even if wasn't free, I would have paid $5 dollars for it and be happy with it.)
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