No, I'm speaking for DAISHI. You see, he said that exact thing about Super Metroid, and since then I have been sarcastically quoting that as much as possible, especially in response to him.
I didn't know disliking Super Metroid was even possible.
I'm doing Escape from the Mysterious Room next month and would love to practice up a bit before then. Anyone got some favourite online "escape the room" games?
we're judging them from the perspective of people who played metroid. There are conventions and tropes used during that era we're all familiar with but have become archaic by modern standards and are no longer in use.
For the record I didn't say Super Metroid is archaic, but is some of its game design? Certainly. It's twenty years old.
Which parts are archaic? The game's lack of telling you exactly where to go? The need to use a guide in order to make sure you find every single super bomb, super missile, missile, and energy tank upgrade? The ability to block you off from certain areas until you have the proper upgrade, thereby forcing you to revisit the same area again?
These are part of what makes the game great. My nephews are 10 and 12 and they like Super Metroid. Just because some people hate having to use their brains a little in order to play a game properly doesn't make those aspects of the game archaic.
Which parts are archaic? The game's lack of telling you exactly where to go? The need to use a guide in order to make sure you find every single super bomb, super missile, missile, and energy tank upgrade? The ability to block you off from certain areas until you have the proper upgrade, thereby forcing you to revisit the same area again?
These are part of what makes the game great. My nephews are 10 and 12 and they like Super Metroid. Just because some people hate having to use their brains a little in order to play a game properly doesn't make those aspects of the game archaic.
First of all, Super Metroid is my favourite game of all time.
That being said, if I never encounter a more difficult to use wall jump in a game, I'll have lived a happy life. That one part(you know the one) really annoyed me.
Do I look like an April 1st kind of person? That's a whole frickin' year away! This forum might not even be prankable by then. And everyone might have already moved to Doublefine or whatever, where I'll have a whole new audience for this stuff.
Which parts are archaic? The game's lack of telling you exactly where to go? The need to use a guide in order to make sure you find every single super bomb, super missile, missile, and energy tank upgrade? The ability to block you off from certain areas until you have the proper upgrade, thereby forcing you to revisit the same area again?
These are part of what makes the game great. My nephews are 10 and 12 and they like Super Metroid. Just because some people hate having to use their brains a little in order to play a game properly doesn't make those aspects of the game archaic.
Retreading old ground, in an era where forward moving narrative and the ability to create hundreds of unique places to visit, is just game filling padding. In a game like Super Metroid, you feel artificially walled off from areas of the game. In that sense it's actually quite linear and simplistic, and when it's been tried in a lot of recent games it just doesn't translate well to 3D, for instance. But even other games like The Swapper, for instance, which block forward progression and require you o retread, hide that and don't make you feel as if you need to retread because it gives you multiple alternative goals so that you never feel you hit the artificial wall and were told "go do this". It provided unique narrative down multiple paths you took, a thousand different goals to accomplish so that you could tackle forward progression in a number of ways, and never bottlenecks you. The Metroid seria hasn't evolved past that artificial bottle necking in its lifetime making it stale because it requires, yes, an archaic game mechanic employed to pad game time.
Don't even dare insult me with the "using your brain" insult.
I think the best way regression should be handled, is if there is something there you didn't notice the first time round.
(Or it changes slightly due to something else you do)
Its like having that EUREKA! moment.
(Maybe its a long-running puzzle throughout the game where a bit in the present finally reveals something in the past that has now become significant (so you go back for it, and its changed slightly. (Maybe the platforms have shifted, or a new mechanic needs to be applied to an old puzzle to move forward (or maybe a character has been murdered in their home or something)))
I mean sure, that IS linear. But It ADDS to the world you play in.
It makes it so that random background has deeper character to it.
Why have endless corridors and NPCs, when you could have a few key areas or characters with lovely art and deeper interaction.
EDIT: (Or an open world full of nothing! (vs a smaller area full of stuff to do and discover))
One of the great things Metroid Prime 3 did with its backtracking was allowing quick traversal using the Gunship to distant points of the map while also introducing new narrative elements to keep movement fresh, so it largely averted this trope.
Do I look like an April 1st kind of person? That's a whole frickin' year away! This forum might not even be prankable by then. And everyone might have already moved to Doublefine or whatever, where I'll have a whole new audience for this stuff.
That would fall under the jurisdiction of someone who actually knows how to edit art. I just steal it and use it for my own nefarious purposes.
All right, all right. Then at least make it factual and write "I don't hate Steam, but I do believe that modern PC gamers unsuspectingly maneuvre the market into a monopoly of googelian proportions which will eventually fuck their platform in the ass."
Whooooyeah, I believe that fits nicely under my user name. Keep 'em coming!
Backtracking is not archaic. Giving you an item where you suddenly say "ooh, I know where to use this" is not archaic. It's puzzle design. The environment itself is a puzzle.
Also, giving the player the feeling of traversing a vast landscape to and fro is a good thing. It's not a flaw on Metroid's part that you have no patience to get to differently landscaped areas. If people now have no interest in intelligent puzzle design, it's a flaw in the gaming culture, not the game itself.
It doesn't make certain game design archaic just because your attention span is too damn short.
Also, most people say Prime is what 3D Metroid should be, and that Other M's focus on story and limearity are what make it suck. Oh, also Final Fantasy games that feel open world and have backtracking are good, while the more linear Final Fantasy games more likely suck.
They were never, and are not currently, good puzzles. They are filler. Making me go from point A to B over and over is little more than a fetch quest. Might as well call it World of Metroid.
All right, all right. Then at least make it factual and write "I don't hate Steam, but I do believe that modern PC gamers unsuspectingly maneuvre the market into a monopoly of googelian proportions which will eventually fuck their platform in the ass."
Whooooyeah, I believe that fits nicely under my user name. Keep 'em coming!
Gee, where I've been, everyone's complained about the interface, the jokes, the style of humor, that it's a Larry game at all, and the graphical style.
I keep telling you that NeoGAF is full of shitheads (and AGS isn't much better), and that nothing they say should be taken seriously, but you just won't listen to me.
I've actually been doing this lately. I realized it's been a long time since I've done an Oracle run with Seasons first, so I decided to do one and build a Labrynna Secret list of Secrets to go with the Hero's Secret I always use. I'm at the start of the last dungeon in Seasons.
I would be further along, but I delayed starting because I didn't want to be in the middle of it when Shantae came out on the 3DS. Then I found out that Shantae had been delayed to "sometime in July" and said screw it.
Okay now you have to be trolling, Daishi. TONS of games have backtracking in them and are no worse off for it.
If you can't stand to revisit a couple of the same areas a couple of times, then I don't know why you hang out on the forum of an at-one-time adventure game developer, when many an adventure game has backtracking.
Comments
otherwise argument invalid. :cool:
Maybe "I Knew" was just on his mind.
LoLoLoLo
I would think.
These are part of what makes the game great. My nephews are 10 and 12 and they like Super Metroid. Just because some people hate having to use their brains a little in order to play a game properly doesn't make those aspects of the game archaic.
Anyway, I've already done my name generator, which is now by the way released under WTFPL (Do What The Fuck You Want to Public License).
Old = archaic. Apparently.
That being said, if I never encounter a more difficult to use wall jump in a game, I'll have lived a happy life. That one part(you know the one) really annoyed me.
Heyyyyyy... that's April 1st stuff.
Gotta get the laughs while I can.
Retreading old ground, in an era where forward moving narrative and the ability to create hundreds of unique places to visit, is just game filling padding. In a game like Super Metroid, you feel artificially walled off from areas of the game. In that sense it's actually quite linear and simplistic, and when it's been tried in a lot of recent games it just doesn't translate well to 3D, for instance. But even other games like The Swapper, for instance, which block forward progression and require you o retread, hide that and don't make you feel as if you need to retread because it gives you multiple alternative goals so that you never feel you hit the artificial wall and were told "go do this". It provided unique narrative down multiple paths you took, a thousand different goals to accomplish so that you could tackle forward progression in a number of ways, and never bottlenecks you. The Metroid seria hasn't evolved past that artificial bottle necking in its lifetime making it stale because it requires, yes, an archaic game mechanic employed to pad game time.
Don't even dare insult me with the "using your brain" insult.
(Or it changes slightly due to something else you do)
Its like having that EUREKA! moment.
(Maybe its a long-running puzzle throughout the game where a bit in the present finally reveals something in the past that has now become significant (so you go back for it, and its changed slightly. (Maybe the platforms have shifted, or a new mechanic needs to be applied to an old puzzle to move forward (or maybe a character has been murdered in their home or something)))
I mean sure, that IS linear. But It ADDS to the world you play in.
It makes it so that random background has deeper character to it.
Why have endless corridors and NPCs, when you could have a few key areas or characters with lovely art and deeper interaction.
EDIT: (Or an open world full of nothing! (vs a smaller area full of stuff to do and discover))
Max ears for that smiley or bust.
It would be nice if ya actually used it.
Badumtish.
All right, all right. Then at least make it factual and write "I don't hate Steam, but I do believe that modern PC gamers unsuspectingly maneuvre the market into a monopoly of googelian proportions which will eventually fuck their platform in the ass."
Whooooyeah, I believe that fits nicely under my user name. Keep 'em coming!
(And now all I can taste is PAIN!!!!)
Also, giving the player the feeling of traversing a vast landscape to and fro is a good thing. It's not a flaw on Metroid's part that you have no patience to get to differently landscaped areas. If people now have no interest in intelligent puzzle design, it's a flaw in the gaming culture, not the game itself.
It doesn't make certain game design archaic just because your attention span is too damn short.
Also, most people say Prime is what 3D Metroid should be, and that Other M's focus on story and limearity are what make it suck. Oh, also Final Fantasy games that feel open world and have backtracking are good, while the more linear Final Fantasy games more likely suck.
Here you go.
I keep telling you that NeoGAF is full of shitheads (and AGS isn't much better), and that nothing they say should be taken seriously, but you just won't listen to me.
I've actually been doing this lately. I realized it's been a long time since I've done an Oracle run with Seasons first, so I decided to do one and build a Labrynna Secret list of Secrets to go with the Hero's Secret I always use. I'm at the start of the last dungeon in Seasons.
I would be further along, but I delayed starting because I didn't want to be in the middle of it when Shantae came out on the 3DS. Then I found out that Shantae had been delayed to "sometime in July" and said screw it.
Thank yoooooo!
that's funny
Malice Rotors is an anagram of Alcoremortis.
If you can't stand to revisit a couple of the same areas a couple of times, then I don't know why you hang out on the forum of an at-one-time adventure game developer, when many an adventure game has backtracking.