3 Moves from Checkmate? Impossible
As an chess enthusiast I couldn't help but to recreate the board position which Carver commented on just to see if I could checkmate white in 3 moves as he claimed. I was assuming that it was black to move. Problem is that it is impossible regardless of who's turn it was to move. How and why? After unsuccessfully attempting it myself as both black and white to move I turned to a chess program (Chessmaster: Grandmaster Edition) to analyze the position and to solve for mate in 3 for both colors to move. The program was unable to do in 3 nor, 4, or 5, or 6, or even 7 moves....After it paused for over 10 min to analyze on 8 moves I closed the program as it was pointless considering 7 moves so far proved impossible. Finally, in a last ditch for an answer I called my close friend Rodion tonight who is a FIDE Master (rating 2273) and plays professionally. He told me that it was theoretically impossible and that most games like this end up as a draw at the highest levels.
The actual position recreated in 2d for easy viewing.
Okay so this tells me that this means one or more of several things.
1) Carver was full of it and/or was lying to manipulate Clem to appear smarter than he really is.
2) TTG set up a incorrect position and perhaps overlooking that members here would actually analyze the endgame for discussion.
3) TTG deliberately set up the incorrect position not caring if the endgame was analyzed later for details or that it was meant for symbolic meaning/foreshadowing only.
What do you guys think?
Comments
I think now I'm impressed.
I Think black wins the game in 3 moves lol
I think Carver was trying to scare a child by acting smarter than he is.
...Not really. Developer oversight, but I like my excuse too.
All kidding aside could you tell me how? If you're thinking Qf2+ and then white goes Kh1?? then black moves d2-d1 (promote to queen) it's checkmate in 2 not 3 but this means that white would be either throwing the game or committing a blunder.
You got the white peon wrong.
Not sure if that makes a difference LOL
Yea I saw the pawn mispositioned too which should have been on a7. Thanks for pointing that out. It makes no difference.
Good eye lol.
Sorry about the mistake. The pawn placement is corrected.
What if the board position is reversed? So in the third screen shot, white would be on the right and black would be on the left. Could it work then?
I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the idea. Let me do a quick board setup and see what happens.
Black pawn moves from d2 to d1. Promotes to a queen. White Queen moves from e4 to h1. Black Queen moves from f1 to h1, captures white queen. Checkmate.
Yeah, it's a stupid move on white's part, but I made the scenario happen in 2 moves on black's part. 3 moves overall, so the situation is...possible. I'm guessing Carver plays chess against monkeys, which wouldn't surprise me if he has to play against people as smart as Bonnie.
Just tried the reverse position and used the Chessmaster and still nothing.....
If Carver was talking about literally 3 consecutive moves overall then it's possible (Qf2+, Kh1, d2-d1 (promote to queen)++ ). Carver trying to manipulate again?
Ugh. think I'm a little hungover. Probably missed something.
Black pawn d2-d1 queen
White queen e4-f4
Black queen f1-h1
Checkmate. Now here's the part where I realise I've fallen into a trap. Or I don't know the symbols for the pieces, or I've move something somewhere/done that I'm not supposed to
Good catch. I was wondering about that too, but I forgot about it in the end to even check it out.
On the symbolism theory.
"Queen" is being protected by Two Pawns.
If we're to give the pieces roles.. let's assume this..
Queen is Clementine, possibly from the fact this forum started the "Queen Clementine " meme and Telltale implamented that into this foreshadowing.
The two pawns infront of her is Kenny and Luke, who at the moment are in a rivalry with eachother.
They're defending her from Three other pawns and a queen.
Now, we don't know the relationship between Bonnie and Carver yet. But let's just assume they're in some sorta relationship.
The good pawns are clearly outnumbered, possibly ending up badly for one of them.. a choice maybe that clementine has to make?
The Queen seems to be set up in a position to "escape" possibly eluding to the fact Bonnie may get scared at the outcome of this situation and we encounter her later.
The black king will clearly be Carver. He is by Clemmy.. Maybe he'll try and kill us?
... heads up, just noticed a white pawn far far away. If this whole "traitor" Luke thing is true, this might change the two pawns infront of clemmy.
What if the pawn a distance away is Luke? it makes sense right.
maybe I'm looking too much into this.. I can continue if you wish.
It will depende on how white plays it, you can win it in 3 moves or even in 2...
In 3 moves:
1: Black pawn to D1 makes a queen, white moves queen to E1
2: Black moves second queen to E1 and eats white's queen, White moves pawn to A8 and makes a queen
3: Black moves first queen to H1 and checkmate!!
In two moves
1: Black moves pawn to D1 and make a queen, White moves pawn to A8 and makes a queen
2: Black moves first queen to H1 and checkmate!!
Maybe he is referring to the fact that he can always count on the Cabin group to reliably make bad decisions on a regular basis.
"Hey look, a little girl is maybe bitten, lets lock her in a shed to bleed out or get a regular infection and die anyway, just in case, so we can save on a tiny amount of supplies."
"Hey look we are so low on ammo that Pete only has 2 shots and nick has 9. Lets not take any melee weapons to back ourselves up."
"Hey look, a field of bodies felled by automatic weapons, lets assume that all of them got shot in the head, and also walk with my leg really close to one of their mouths. Also, lets split up onto opposite sides of this potentially walker filled river bank!"
"Hey look, Lights in the distance about an hours walk from here. We are 100% safe and in the clear, on this new cabin on top of a hill that obviously has room for a group exactly our size."
"Hey look, walkers approaching, the most capable among us to turn off this wind power plant that is attracting dozens of walkers is clearly that 11 year old girl." (Good thing you only needed to turn the one key to turn it off, not that the cabin group checked. They probably think that Clem has Doug-level technomancy powers considering how quickly she fixed the silo.)
"Hey look, automatic gunfire all around us, lets stay still and get surrounded outside instead of bolting inside while Carver's group spends 30 seconds gunning down every single walker for miles around."
And then later, Carlos: "The ruthless dictator with a particular "Eye for an Eye" mindset is threatening me and I and my friends are completely at his mercy, I should spit in his face thereby threatening his authority in front of his men and irritating him greatly, this is a great idea!" Snapping noises.
So yeah, Carver, as we saw, could feasibly rely on them to constantly make bad decisions until he caught them in episode 2.
You are not looking too much, I've myself wondered the symbolism of the chess table and why is that white pawn so far away? Is it because Luke ran away but he'll return with power to save everyone (pawn becomes a queen).
Because I just realized that if that pawn turns into a queen then white is not going to lose that fast, if that pawn turns into a queen there's a chance that the king (clementine) will survive.
I'm guessing that pawn is Luke.
It's probably a developer oversight. Probably.
My Reaction To This:
Click here
:P glad to see you getting involved in my crazy ideas.. and glad to see people agree.
ah, finding symbolism is fun.
Personally? I trust Luke, but I find some of his actions in episode 2 odd..
I cant help but laugh when I hear her swear.
"What do you guys think?"
Well I think you can beat Carver in a game of chess any day!
Luke and Carlos faces are hilarious
Obviously it's post apocalyptic chess. All the pawns are walkers and the black king is getting swarmed.
i think TTG didnt think that people would actually figure this out xD.
Great job though
We worked out carver could just be shit at chess.
Now for my serious answer.
Well considering made that Carver mistake in analyzing the chess pieces, I believe Carver will make a huge mistake in the end, causing his downfall.
Hence this chessboard still foreshadows the future.
Called it.
@Stevean2 I really like your thorough interpretation of this and no you're not looking too deep because when solving problems we all need to consider as many details as possible right? I wish I could add more to this but you covered plenty. Great job!
Same here. Luke seems to be a strong symbolic choice.
lol would love to find out. Better yet I would like to have him play Lee or Omid and see what happens.
Your actually wrong due to your board placement and your confusion on pieces. Carver is still right.
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He just spotted the 3 move checkmate from what he said. White can still prevent the checkmate though.
Thank you man! there's more I can share, namely about the white king and stuff, but I'd have to think about it :P
That would be awesome thanks! The more the better please.
It's not a "checkmate" if it can be stopped. At best it's the possibility of a checkmate which isn't the same thing. He said it with an air of certainty as in "no matter what happens the game is over in three moves", which obviously isn't the case. He's trying to show her how smart he is, for all we know he was just pulling that out of his ass not thinking he would be corrected by a little girl though. To bad we couldn't have responded with something like "depending on how it's played".
People are over thinking this, Carver was just trying to show off to a kid thinking he'd psych her out. He's trying to set himself up as her better, which he also does when he shows Clem the picture of Sarah and tries to stare her down. My Clem wasn't putting up with it.
Telltale maybe trying to set up a Negan/Carl situation.
@Madoka_Magica The piece on d2 is a pawn and not a rook. It's clearly evident from the first screen capture. If you look at the white captured pieces the top of the rook piece is distinctly shaped like a castle top which the piece on d2 does not have.
Plus how was the board placement wrong?
After a pawn reaches the end of the board it can become another piece. It hasnt happened yet but it can become a rook.
