Yes that's true. So what you're saying is that if it was black to move and the move was d2-d1 then promote to rook (but why not the queen?). That is one move. But then what would white do in order for you to execute the other 2 moves you demonstrated?
Queen could then go up 4 to kill the rook but rook would just put king in check mate or the queen could between the 2 but queen would still get killed with king in check mate in 2 moves
Yes that's true. So what you're saying is that if it was black to move and the move was d2-d1 then promote to rook (but why not the queen?).… more That is one move. But then what would white do in order for you to execute the other 2 moves you demonstrated?
Queen could then go up 4 to kill the rook but rook would just put king in check mate or the queen could between the 2 but queen would still get killed with king in check mate in 2 moves
Queen could then go up 4 to kill the rook but rook would just put king in check mate or the queen could between the 2 but queen would still get killed with king in check mate in 2 moves
Kenny is kind of messed up in the head, and obviously replaced Katja for Sarita and is trying to have a replace for Duck in his mind (Duck reference to Clem and Duck dressed with christmas clothes in the house). ALso Sarita looks a lot like Katja in the hair and face traits...
Luke was kind off weird when he and Kenny left, I didn't even got why they left AND why would Luke want to go with Kenny instead of staying with his group? Trying to connect with him? it's a possibility.
Also why did he just left Kenny for a fight they had (according to Kenny)? I mean did he had another plan that didn't put in motion in time? Did he knew that they couldn't win against Carver and hide so he can follow the group and save them later? I'm guessing they are all good possibilities, BUT still akwar behaviours
:P glad to see you getting involved in my crazy ideas.. and glad to see people agree.
ah, finding symbolism is fun.
Personally? I trust Luke, but I find some of his actions in episode 2 odd..
Exactly @Brock Samson which is why checkmate in 2-3 moves is not possible. Anytime you solve for mate in a specified amount of moves you take into account that your opponent is playing a best move and not throwing the game.
If white queen does move up to black rook or black queen, the white queen will be killed prolonging the match. But the black Queen will just re check moving to 6e. So check within 4 of blacks moves at least. Caver is smart as hell to see that within a few seconds.
All I can say is "White is in trouble, 3 moves away from check mate" He didnt say there was nothing else white could do. He was just stating fact.
Exactly @Brock Samson which is why checkmate in 2-3 moves is not possible. Anytime you solve for mate in a specified amount of moves you take into account that your opponent is playing a best move and not throwing the game.
3 moves away from checkmate is not a fact if it is avoidable. That's like saying it's a fact someone will ride in their car to work. It's not definite (and therefore not fact) until it happens. But I am really enjoying this thread, makes me wish I were into chess!
If white queen does move up to black rook or black queen, the white queen will be killed prolonging the match. But the black Queen will just… more re check moving to 6e. So check within 4 of blacks moves at least. Caver is smart as hell to see that within a few seconds.
All I can say is "White is in trouble, 3 moves away from check mate" He didnt say there was nothing else white could do. He was just stating fact.
But in the context of his words checkmate is within 3 moves so white is still in trouble. He didnt claim there was no way to prolong the match.
He pretty much just eyeballed the chess table once for a few seconds and he was already over 3 moves ahead. The Average person would not be able to see that.
3 moves away from checkmate is not a fact if it is avoidable. That's like saying it's a fact someone will ride in their car to work. It's n… moreot definite (and therefore not fact) until it happens. But I am really enjoying this thread, makes me wish I were into chess!
Theoretically yes but again only if white cooperates or "mistakes"/blunders as you said. But that's not how a game is played. Bro, not trying to drag this on or argue but every contingency you claim is based on white literally fixing the endgame. As Brock stated it's not checkmate unless it can be stopped.
You should check it out @Viva-La-Lee. There are plenty of clubs and people online who are really into it. It's easy to learn but the problem solving can be very time consuming. Not just talking about playing a real game but solving for checkmate or the puzzles. Challenging stuff man.......
3 moves away from checkmate is not a fact if it is avoidable. That's like saying it's a fact someone will ride in their car to work. It's n… moreot definite (and therefore not fact) until it happens. But I am really enjoying this thread, makes me wish I were into chess!
White is in trouble. Three moves away from checkmate. Technically if he just states it as 3 moves away from checkmate then he means 3 moves away from checkmate. But I can see how interpretation is in the eye of the beholder with this one.
But in the context of his words checkmate is within 3 moves so white is still in trouble. He didnt claim there was no way to prolong the mat… morech.
He pretty much just eyeballed the chess table once for a few seconds and he was already over 3 moves ahead. The Average person would not be able to see that.
Carver doesn't need to say there's nothing white can do because by stating "3 moves away from Checkmate" already means that. I agree that Carve is smart but also very cunning, charming, and manipulative. If it wasn't for the developers oversight I would think that he's even more brilliant because solving for mate in 3 is very difficult for even experienced players.
If white queen does move up to black rook or black queen, the white queen will be killed prolonging the match. But the black Queen will just… more re check moving to 6e. So check within 4 of blacks moves at least. Caver is smart as hell to see that within a few seconds.
All I can say is "White is in trouble, 3 moves away from check mate" He didnt say there was nothing else white could do. He was just stating fact.
I just might do that. Always loved checkers as a kid. I guess I never made the jump to chess for some reason! I have a fairly analytical and mathematical mind, perhaps I wouldn't suck as much as I always tell myself I would lol.
You should check it out @Viva-La-Lee. There are plenty of clubs and people online who are really into it. It's easy to learn but the problem… more solving can be very time consuming. Not just talking about playing a real game but solving for checkmate or the puzzles. Challenging stuff man.......
Nah you don't suck. Maybe the players you play are cheating or using programs. That happens all the time. That's why I stopped playing online against people with 3 day move limits because the cheating is too rampant. Also try playing with timers (if possible) online which will speed up the game so the matches don't take a long time and the possibility of cheating is greatly reduced.
I play for free on Yahoo games and Itsyourturn.com.
I just might do that. Always loved checkers as a kid. I guess I never made the jump to chess for some reason! I have a fairly analytical and mathematical mind, perhaps I wouldn't suck as much as I always tell myself I would lol.
I doubt it was an oversight thought. If anything they are showing that while he is a bright man he is cocky and believes he has it all figured out, and by default already won, even when it isn't true. Him having a preemptive, and what he considers a definite, 'checkmate' may very well play out in the overall story
Carver doesn't need to say there's nothing white can do because by stating "3 moves away from Checkmate" already means that. I agree that Ca… morerve is smart but also very cunning, charming, and manipulative. If it wasn't for the developers oversight I would think that he's even more brilliant because solving for mate in 3 is very difficult for even experienced players.
That's a really good point. He does come across as somewhat smug so maybe that could contribute to his downfall in the end. He can't fool everyone forever.
It'll be interesting to see how he plays his middle and endgame at the "concentration camp". I can't help but to think that Carver is being portrayed more and more like a Kim Jong Un type.
I doubt it was an oversight thought. If anything they are showing that while he is a bright man he is cocky and believes he has it all figur… moreed out, and by default already won, even when it isn't true. Him having a preemptive, and what he considers a definite, 'checkmate' may very well play out in the overall story
Your thread still pointless checkmate isnt impossible as you claim it to be. Its still possible with casual players who have hardly touched chess before the zombie Apocalypse to screw up. Not everyone is a master at chess.
What you dont see is that maybe Carver is just underestimating or estimating the intelligence of the white chess player when he says "3 moves away from checkmate." Its not a developer oversight its just open to interpretation and if anything it could be a possible foreshadow as you say. If thats the case then the developers thought this out well.
Maybe this has already been foreshadowed in the hostage situation at the end of episode 2. If you think about it Carver constantly put Kenny in check. Kenny could of kept going losing pieces (characters) all the while but if he gave up he wouldn't have lost as many pieces and saved time lol.
Carver doesn't need to say there's nothing white can do because by stating "3 moves away from Checkmate" already means that. I agree that Ca… morerve is smart but also very cunning, charming, and manipulative. If it wasn't for the developers oversight I would think that he's even more brilliant because solving for mate in 3 is very difficult for even experienced players.
How does that not lead to a Checkmate? The white king has no where to go, and the black queen is cornering him. Even if white moves his/her pawns the black queen would still be able to capture white's king. Remember, queens can go in any direction in unlimited amount of spaces, while kings can go any direction but only move one space. I don't know, it's probably some obvious reason and I'm too dumb to realize it.
Your thread still pointless checkmate isnt impossible as you claim it to be. Its still possible with casual players who have hardly touched … morechess before the zombie Apocalypse to screw up. Not everyone is a master at chess.
What you dont see is that maybe Carver is just underestimating or estimating the intelligence of the white chess player when he says "3 moves away from checkmate." Its not a developer oversight its just open to interpretation and if anything it could be a possible foreshadow as you say. If thats the case then the developers thought this out well.
Maybe this has already been foreshadowed in the hostage situation at the end of episode 2. If you think about it Carver constantly put Kenny in check. Kenny could of kept going losing pieces (characters) all the while but if he gave up he wouldn't have lost as many pieces and saved time lol.
That's a really good point. He does come across as somewhat smug so maybe that could contribute to his downfall in the end. He can't fool ev… moreeryone forever.
It'll be interesting to see how he plays his middle and endgame at the "concentration camp". I can't help but to think that Carver is being portrayed more and more like a Kim Jong Un type.
Your actually wrong due to your board placement and your confusion on pieces. Carver is still right.
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He just spotted the 3 move checkmate from what he said. White can still prevent the checkmate though.
How does that not lead to a Checkmate? The white king has no where to go, and the black queen is cornering him. Even if white moves his/her … morepawns the black queen would still be able to capture white's king. Remember, queens can go in any direction in unlimited amount of spaces, while kings can go any direction but only move one space. I don't know, it's probably some obvious reason and I'm too dumb to realize it.
Depends on who's turn it is. Most likely its blacks turn since white isnt already in position to stop the pawn from turning into a rook usually queen is used to take a pieces out long range and not in the thick of it so its highly possible that white just took a piece out in its last turn. Its also a quick and obvious move that would only take a second to realize and it could be made before leaving mid game.
If it was blacks turn White queen has 1 move to get into range of Capturing the new rook but black rook will move out of the white queens range putting king in checkmate.
To stop the 3 move checkmate the only move white queen can make is to block black rooks checkmate which in turn black queen will check king instead. Black queen will check king again while White queen is now stuck blocking rook. If white queen holds black rook's checkmate block white queen will eventually be taken out by black queen.
While white is in a bad position, the game is far from being over. If I had white I could easily play for another ten turns without getting checkmate and certainly not in three. If black moves d2-d1 and promotes to queen, then I'd move e4-g2. You're not going to checkmate white in two more turns. If you then take the white queen, I'd play h2-g2. Leaving you one more turn and zero possibilities to checkmate white. Not taking the white queen in the second turn will allow white to throw in the queen to break any later checks. So unless Carver can invoke the "Kings Privilege", he is talking out of his Elo 500 rectum.
Depends on who's turn it is. Most likely its blacks turn since white isnt already in position to stop the pawn from turning into a rook usua… morelly queen is used to take a pieces out long range and not in the thick of it so its highly possible that white just took a piece out in its last turn. Its also a quick and obvious move that would only take a second to realize and it could be made before leaving mid game.
If it was blacks turn White queen has 1 move to get into range of Capturing the new rook but black rook will move out of the white queens range putting king in checkmate.
To stop the 3 move checkmate the only move white queen can make is to block black rooks checkmate which in turn black queen will check king instead. Black queen will check king again while White queen is now stuck blocking rook. If white queen holds black rook's checkmate block white queen will eventually be taken out by black queen.
F7 to F5 to get the queen out of the way, then D2 to D1 to get the new Rook/Queen (depending on how you play). The white queen then can't do much, unless they move to G2 and then draw black in to an exchange that knocks out all queens, with the king's only escape guarded by the pawn at H5, so I don't see it as impossible.
If it's white's turn, then you still can't do much because it seems your only option is to exchange queens and pray for a stale mate, but I don't see it working out well at all, so I'm inclined to agree with Carver.
It's not pointless bro. I was just stating that it's not possible in 3 moves as Carver claimed and I thought that many members here would enjoy the discussion and analysis. Also, I never claimed that I am a master at chess nor do I wish to come across as such. Personally, I have played competitively in college with a USCF rating of 1500 at my peak. That's far from a master and it's just a hobby for me which I enjoy discussing.
Re: Intelligence of the white player. I don't see how that's relevant because if checkmate is unavoidable then it will occur regardless of the opponents intellect. The developer's oversight (if so) is definitely open to interpretation and I totally agree with you there. However there is not enough information to clearly define it as intentional or an oversight at the moment.
The hostage situation is a great analogy and may very well be foreshadowing.
Going back to what Brock said....No need to overthink this.
Your thread still pointless checkmate isnt impossible as you claim it to be. Its still possible with casual players who have hardly touched … morechess before the zombie Apocalypse to screw up. Not everyone is a master at chess.
What you dont see is that maybe Carver is just underestimating or estimating the intelligence of the white chess player when he says "3 moves away from checkmate." Its not a developer oversight its just open to interpretation and if anything it could be a possible foreshadow as you say. If thats the case then the developers thought this out well.
Maybe this has already been foreshadowed in the hostage situation at the end of episode 2. If you think about it Carver constantly put Kenny in check. Kenny could of kept going losing pieces (characters) all the while but if he gave up he wouldn't have lost as many pieces and saved time lol.
Maybe he is referring to the fact that he can always count on the Cabin group to reliably make bad decisions on a regular basis.
"Hey loo… morek, a little girl is maybe bitten, lets lock her in a shed to bleed out or get a regular infection and die anyway, just in case, so we can save on a tiny amount of supplies."
"Hey look we are so low on ammo that Pete only has 2 shots and nick has 9. Lets not take any melee weapons to back ourselves up."
"Hey look, a field of bodies felled by automatic weapons, lets assume that all of them got shot in the head, and also walk with my leg really close to one of their mouths. Also, lets split up onto opposite sides of this potentially walker filled river bank!"
"Hey look, Lights in the distance about an hours walk from here. We are 100% safe and in the clear, on this new cabin on top of a hill that obviously has room for a group exactly our size."
"Hey look, walkers approaching, the most capable am… [view original content]
Maybe he is referring to the fact that he can always count on the Cabin group to reliably make bad decisions on a regular basis.
"Hey loo… morek, a little girl is maybe bitten, lets lock her in a shed to bleed out or get a regular infection and die anyway, just in case, so we can save on a tiny amount of supplies."
"Hey look we are so low on ammo that Pete only has 2 shots and nick has 9. Lets not take any melee weapons to back ourselves up."
"Hey look, a field of bodies felled by automatic weapons, lets assume that all of them got shot in the head, and also walk with my leg really close to one of their mouths. Also, lets split up onto opposite sides of this potentially walker filled river bank!"
"Hey look, Lights in the distance about an hours walk from here. We are 100% safe and in the clear, on this new cabin on top of a hill that obviously has room for a group exactly our size."
"Hey look, walkers approaching, the most capable am… [view original content]
All of you are geeks
Im sorry but all of you are over looking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard. He only took a look at the board for 3 seconds all this means is that hes fond of chess and logic. Other people would not have even gave the board the time of day like me screw it Id rather not stress over it. You guys are taking hours using chess sims and what not and arguing just to compute Carver's 5 second logic and woopty cocka-doole-doole in the hours you spent examining it I would not be surprised if Carver is wrong its not like he could computer sim something in 5 seconds anyway. There's no foreshadowing or anything within this all we find out from this part of the story is that Carver is a man that likes his game of chess. Its not a developer fault its just a simple display of carver's character
Stop all these pointless arguments and K.I.S.S.- Keep it simple stupid XP
Comments
Yes that's true. So what you're saying is that if it was black to move and the move was d2-d1 then promote to rook (but why not the queen?). That is one move. But then what would white do in order for you to execute the other 2 moves you demonstrated?
Queen could then go up 4 to kill the rook but rook would just put king in check mate or the queen could between the 2 but queen would still get killed with king in check mate in 2 moves
Okay I see your point. It's checkmate in 2 moves provided that white cooperates.
I found that too... both from Luke adn Kenny.
Kenny is kind of messed up in the head, and obviously replaced Katja for Sarita and is trying to have a replace for Duck in his mind (Duck reference to Clem and Duck dressed with christmas clothes in the house). ALso Sarita looks a lot like Katja in the hair and face traits...
Luke was kind off weird when he and Kenny left, I didn't even got why they left AND why would Luke want to go with Kenny instead of staying with his group? Trying to connect with him? it's a possibility.
Also why did he just left Kenny for a fight they had (according to Kenny)? I mean did he had another plan that didn't put in motion in time? Did he knew that they couldn't win against Carver and hide so he can follow the group and save them later? I'm guessing they are all good possibilities, BUT still akwar behaviours
lol isn't the point of playing the game to not have white cooperate?
Exactly @Brock Samson which is why checkmate in 2-3 moves is not possible. Anytime you solve for mate in a specified amount of moves you take into account that your opponent is playing a best move and not throwing the game.
I think hes referring to his master plan. 3 Moves to check mate meaning 3 episodes left, until he does something crazy
He doesn't know there are 3 episodes left. This could definitely be foreshadowing and symbolism, but not a reference by Carver
If white queen does move up to black rook or black queen, the white queen will be killed prolonging the match. But the black Queen will just re check moving to 6e. So check within 4 of blacks moves at least. Caver is smart as hell to see that within a few seconds.
All I can say is "White is in trouble, 3 moves away from check mate" He didnt say there was nothing else white could do. He was just stating fact.
Its not like playing against the computer people make mistakes so it is possible for a checkmate in 3 moves.
3 moves away from checkmate is not a fact if it is avoidable. That's like saying it's a fact someone will ride in their car to work. It's not definite (and therefore not fact) until it happens. But I am really enjoying this thread, makes me wish I were into chess!
But in the context of his words checkmate is within 3 moves so white is still in trouble. He didnt claim there was no way to prolong the match.
He pretty much just eyeballed the chess table once for a few seconds and he was already over 3 moves ahead. The Average person would not be able to see that.
Theoretically yes but again only if white cooperates or "mistakes"/blunders as you said. But that's not how a game is played. Bro, not trying to drag this on or argue but every contingency you claim is based on white literally fixing the endgame. As Brock stated it's not checkmate unless it can be stopped.
You should check it out @Viva-La-Lee. There are plenty of clubs and people online who are really into it. It's easy to learn but the problem solving can be very time consuming. Not just talking about playing a real game but solving for checkmate or the puzzles. Challenging stuff man.......
White is in trouble. Three moves away from checkmate. Technically if he just states it as 3 moves away from checkmate then he means 3 moves away from checkmate. But I can see how interpretation is in the eye of the beholder with this one.
Or at least I don't think it is...
End of season 2 Carver looks at the screen. "I see you... Fade to black.
Carver doesn't need to say there's nothing white can do because by stating "3 moves away from Checkmate" already means that. I agree that Carve is smart but also very cunning, charming, and manipulative. If it wasn't for the developers oversight I would think that he's even more brilliant because solving for mate in 3 is very difficult for even experienced players.
I just might do that. Always loved checkers as a kid. I guess I never made the jump to chess for some reason! I have a fairly analytical and mathematical mind, perhaps I wouldn't suck as much as I always tell myself I would lol.
Nah you don't suck. Maybe the players you play are cheating or using programs. That happens all the time. That's why I stopped playing online against people with 3 day move limits because the cheating is too rampant. Also try playing with timers (if possible) online which will speed up the game so the matches don't take a long time and the possibility of cheating is greatly reduced.
I play for free on Yahoo games and Itsyourturn.com.
Lol I actually thought about that too
I doubt it was an oversight thought. If anything they are showing that while he is a bright man he is cocky and believes he has it all figured out, and by default already won, even when it isn't true. Him having a preemptive, and what he considers a definite, 'checkmate' may very well play out in the overall story
That's a really good point. He does come across as somewhat smug so maybe that could contribute to his downfall in the end. He can't fool everyone forever.
It'll be interesting to see how he plays his middle and endgame at the "concentration camp". I can't help but to think that Carver is being portrayed more and more like a Kim Jong Un type.
Your thread still pointless checkmate isnt impossible as you claim it to be. Its still possible with casual players who have hardly touched chess before the zombie Apocalypse to screw up. Not everyone is a master at chess.
What you dont see is that maybe Carver is just underestimating or estimating the intelligence of the white chess player when he says "3 moves away from checkmate." Its not a developer oversight its just open to interpretation and if anything it could be a possible foreshadow as you say. If thats the case then the developers thought this out well.
Maybe this has already been foreshadowed in the hostage situation at the end of episode 2. If you think about it Carver constantly put Kenny in check. Kenny could of kept going losing pieces (characters) all the while but if he gave up he wouldn't have lost as many pieces and saved time lol.
How does that not lead to a Checkmate? The white king has no where to go, and the black queen is cornering him. Even if white moves his/her pawns the black queen would still be able to capture white's king. Remember, queens can go in any direction in unlimited amount of spaces, while kings can go any direction but only move one space. I don't know, it's probably some obvious reason and I'm too dumb to realize it.
Checkmate isn't impossible but claiming checkmate in a set number of moves is.
Nice reference and I completely agree!
But wouldn't the white queen capture the rook?
Nice catch. I'm not a chess person, so I just took him at his word.
Anyways, as for my thoughts, I believe it was just Telltale not setting it up correctly, or just not expecting anyone to catch it/correct them.
@Deceptio it's about checkmating in 3 moves only. It doesn't mean that white will not be eventually checkmated.
Depends on who's turn it is. Most likely its blacks turn since white isnt already in position to stop the pawn from turning into a rook usually queen is used to take a pieces out long range and not in the thick of it so its highly possible that white just took a piece out in its last turn. Its also a quick and obvious move that would only take a second to realize and it could be made before leaving mid game.
If it was blacks turn White queen has 1 move to get into range of Capturing the new rook but black rook will move out of the white queens range putting king in checkmate.
To stop the 3 move checkmate the only move white queen can make is to block black rooks checkmate which in turn black queen will check king instead. Black queen will check king again while White queen is now stuck blocking rook. If white queen holds black rook's checkmate block white queen will eventually be taken out by black queen.
While white is in a bad position, the game is far from being over. If I had white I could easily play for another ten turns without getting checkmate and certainly not in three. If black moves d2-d1 and promotes to queen, then I'd move e4-g2. You're not going to checkmate white in two more turns. If you then take the white queen, I'd play h2-g2. Leaving you one more turn and zero possibilities to checkmate white. Not taking the white queen in the second turn will allow white to throw in the queen to break any later checks. So unless Carver can invoke the "Kings Privilege", he is talking out of his Elo 500 rectum.
But in more than 3 turns
Thanks again Clementine09 for making this thread. I believe it is the most interesting thread I've read all day
Assuming it's black's turn, I see it as:
F7 to F5 to get the queen out of the way, then D2 to D1 to get the new Rook/Queen (depending on how you play). The white queen then can't do much, unless they move to G2 and then draw black in to an exchange that knocks out all queens, with the king's only escape guarded by the pawn at H5, so I don't see it as impossible.
If it's white's turn, then you still can't do much because it seems your only option is to exchange queens and pray for a stale mate, but I don't see it working out well at all, so I'm inclined to agree with Carver.
You bet bro. I thought sooner or later somebody would post this. I would love to know what the developers have to say about it.
It's not pointless bro. I was just stating that it's not possible in 3 moves as Carver claimed and I thought that many members here would enjoy the discussion and analysis. Also, I never claimed that I am a master at chess nor do I wish to come across as such. Personally, I have played competitively in college with a USCF rating of 1500 at my peak. That's far from a master and it's just a hobby for me which I enjoy discussing.
Re: Intelligence of the white player. I don't see how that's relevant because if checkmate is unavoidable then it will occur regardless of the opponents intellect. The developer's oversight (if so) is definitely open to interpretation and I totally agree with you there. However there is not enough information to clearly define it as intentional or an oversight at the moment.
The hostage situation is a great analogy and may very well be foreshadowing.
Going back to what Brock said....No need to overthink this.
I love you...
@Qipoi Very well said bro. I wonder how he's going to handle them in Ep3.....
All of you are geeks
Im sorry but all of you are over looking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard. He only took a look at the board for 3 seconds all this means is that hes fond of chess and logic. Other people would not have even gave the board the time of day like me screw it Id rather not stress over it. You guys are taking hours using chess sims and what not and arguing just to compute Carver's 5 second logic and woopty cocka-doole-doole in the hours you spent examining it I would not be surprised if Carver is wrong its not like he could computer sim something in 5 seconds anyway. There's no foreshadowing or anything within this all we find out from this part of the story is that Carver is a man that likes his game of chess. Its not a developer fault its just a simple display of carver's character
Stop all these pointless arguments and K.I.S.S.- Keep it simple stupid XP