Kenny, Mike, Luke, and Nick literally abandoned Clem in the herd. The plan was not to get separated. The whole reason they planned the meeting place in Parker’s run was as a contingency plan to the possibility that things might “get hairy” and they’d need a place to regroup. In fact, Jane, a survivalist, stressed the importance of simply not clumping together, and even went back to help Clem and Rebecca.
And I don’t like Kenny either, high-five!
Sarah doesn’t act as she’s “supposed to”? Then, pray tell, how should a neurodivergent teenage girl being hindered by an idiotic father supposed to do in order to survive? She tried to help people in trouble (Clem). She took initiative and tried to adapt to the ZA as soon as her father was absent and the opportunity presented itself. Sarah did the best she could in her situation, which is why people pity and sympathize with her, rather than hate her for no good reason. Once again, I can understand people disliking or finding her annoying because she wasn’t the most capable survivor. But the bottom line is that hating or thinking she deserved to die for “weakness” is a frankly disturbing mindset, and you yourself admitted that Sarah had the potential to evolve under Clem’s supervision.
No. Their separation was planned in order to get to the other side, Sarah separated herself deliberately which will cause her to get devoure… mored by walkers and get bitten. And I don't like Kenny either, He's self-righteous.
In my opinion, She's no where near unique.
Your question has already been answered. My type of conversation is to give you the data and let you understand its value. Sarah doesn't act as she's supposed to do in order to survive, That's why she's unadaptive and naive. I respect a character when they can look out for themselves and analyze the situation very well and benefit from it. For example, Clem, Lee, Molly ... Etc. I don't have time for stupid people, Or tyrants like Carver. Sarah has proved a multiple time, That she doesn't even have the potential to analyze and act well to survive, She need a LOT of time in order to change. So, She's not my concern. Killing her was a right call from Telltale.
Well, Sarah caused a mess, But let's not get into that type of conversation.
Well, Things did get hairy and everyone was looking for their own survival, Completely understandable.
She had the potential, Yes, But in the long run, Not the short one. My own personality is very quick-thinking one and I always work my way out of any trouble, So it kinda bugs me when Someone can't really be that adaptive. Sarah wasn't adaptive, But she could have been taught to be a survivor just like everyone else. But, As I have already said, In S1, She'd have made it, In S2, I don't think so. Sarah isn't really my matter of concern and I don't like to talk much about her, But how The Sarah Supporters try to crash Sarah haters disturbs me.
Well, Frankly speaking, If she did do her work, Reggie wouldn't have ended up dead. Yes, Carver wanted to kill him, But if she did her work, He wouldn't have found an excuse to do so. That's just one example.
Kenny, Mike, Luke, and Nick literally abandoned Clem in the herd. The plan was not to get separated. The whole reason they planned the meeti… moreng place in Parker’s run was as a contingency plan to the possibility that things might “get hairy” and they’d need a place to regroup. In fact, Jane, a survivalist, stressed the importance of simply not clumping together, and even went back to help Clem and Rebecca.
And I don’t like Kenny either, high-five!
Sarah doesn’t act as she’s “supposed to”? Then, pray tell, how should a neurodivergent teenage girl being hindered by an idiotic father supposed to do in order to survive? She tried to help people in trouble (Clem). She took initiative and tried to adapt to the ZA as soon as her father was absent and the opportunity presented itself. Sarah did the best she could in her situation, which is why people pity and sympathize with her, rather than hate her for no good reason. Once again, I can understa… [view original content]
Completely understandable, yes. I was simply refuting your claim that Sarah alone was being stupid in that situation. Everyone was stupid. Everyone irrationally abandoned each other and put each other at risk. Once again, you can't single out Sarah here.
I’m glad that you at least recognize that Sarah wasn’t a hopeless case, because she really wasn’t. And that’s why some people really pity her; she could have survived if not for extremely bad luck in situation and circumstance. Likewise, I can understand your mindset of “not my matter of concern”. She wasn’t the most helpful survivor (though she did help save Clem’s life in episode 1), and I can understand that some people don’t appreciate that she wasn’t as useful as, say, Molly or Carley.
And Sarah fans wouldn’t “crash” Sarah haters if there was actually a valid reason to hate her and wish brutal death upon her. I said it before, disliking or finding her annoying is understandable, but that’s about it.
Frankly speaking, Carver would’ve found literally any other inane reason in the world to kill Reggie no matter what. He said himself that Reggie’s been making a “string of screw-ups” lately. And you know what? If Clem had simply cut her own berries and told Sarah to watch her do so for a minute so she would know what to do, then they both would've finished their work. Clem's just as much to blame.
Well, Things did get hairy and everyone was looking for their own survival, Completely understandable.
She had the potential, Yes, But in… more the long run, Not the short one. My own personality is very quick-thinking one and I always work my way out of any trouble, So it kinda bugs me when Someone can't really be that adaptive. Sarah wasn't adaptive, But she could have been taught to be a survivor just like everyone else. But, As I have already said, In S1, She'd have made it, In S2, I don't think so. Sarah isn't really my matter of concern and I don't like to talk much about her, But how The Sarah Supporters try to crash Sarah haters disturbs me.
Well, Frankly speaking, If she did do her work, Reggie wouldn't have ended up dead. Yes, Carver wanted to kill him, But if she did her work, He wouldn't have found an excuse to do so. That's just one example.
But, Separating yourself from the group entirely with no weapons or survival knowledge in the ZA is suicide, Don't you think?
Telltale forums have unfortunately become a place where the majority wants to extinguish the existence of the minority, That's where i step in. That's all.
I agree. But Clem isn't really the one to blame, The game had to give you a choice.
Completely understandable, yes. I was simply refuting your claim that Sarah alone was being stupid in that situation. Everyone was stupid. E… moreveryone irrationally abandoned each other and put each other at risk. Once again, you can't single out Sarah here.
I’m glad that you at least recognize that Sarah wasn’t a hopeless case, because she really wasn’t. And that’s why some people really pity her; she could have survived if not for extremely bad luck in situation and circumstance. Likewise, I can understand your mindset of “not my matter of concern”. She wasn’t the most helpful survivor (though she did help save Clem’s life in episode 1), and I can understand that some people don’t appreciate that she wasn’t as useful as, say, Molly or Carley.
And Sarah fans wouldn’t “crash” Sarah haters if there was actually a valid reason to hate her and wish brutal death upon her. I said it before, disliking or finding her annoying is understandable, bu… [view original content]
Well, it was also stupid to fondle a bite victim in the middle of a herd. And freezing in the middle of escaping an extremely dangerous situation. Kenny and Rebecca were no better. And I still find it pretty stupid to abandon each other during the escape. Luke and Nick at least had the reason of going to save Sarah. Kenny and Mike had no reason to leave Clem to die without even looking back.
I think the only "minorities" being extinguished are the ones with no valid or rational justifications behind their opinions.
And yeah, it's not fair to blame Clem, just as it's not fair to blame Sarah. It's Carver's fault for liking berries too much. Actually, now that I think about it, Reggie's pretty responsible for his own situation as well. He sure as hell knew that Sarah probably had a mental condition, yet irresponsibly passed on the task of supervising her to Clem, an 11-year old girl, giving the shitty excuse of "I'm not good with that kind of stuff". What, you're not good at supervising? Which is your only job???
But, Separating yourself from the group entirely with no weapons or survival knowledge in the ZA is suicide, Don't you think?
Telltale fo… morerums have unfortunately become a place where the majority wants to extinguish the existence of the minority, That's where i step in. That's all.
I agree. But Clem isn't really the one to blame, The game had to give you a choice.
And that's why I don't like to talk about Sarah specifically. I hate most of the group, Not only Sarah.
No, I have seen it before, People trying to shut me up. You may not be like that, But there's a lot of people like that on here, And that's why i took a break in the last month, I rarely visited the forums.
A lot of people are responsible for his death. Covering Sarah's part in it doesn't make sense to me.
Well, it was also stupid to fondle a bite victim in the middle of a herd. And freezing in the middle of escaping an extremely dangerous situ… moreation. Kenny and Rebecca were no better. And I still find it pretty stupid to abandon each other during the escape. Luke and Nick at least had the reason of going to save Sarah. Kenny and Mike had no reason to leave Clem to die without even looking back.
I think the only "minorities" being extinguished are the ones with no valid or rational justifications behind their opinions.
And yeah, it's not fair to blame Clem, just as it's not fair to blame Sarah. It's Carver's fault for liking berries too much. Actually, now that I think about it, Reggie's pretty responsible for his own situation as well. He sure as hell knew that Sarah probably had a mental condition, yet irresponsibly passed on the task of supervising her to Clem, an 11-year old girl, giving the shitty excuse of "I'm not good with that kind of stuff". What, you're not good at supervising? Which is your only job???
I'm sincerely sorry to hear that some people are so intolerant of your opinion. I like discussing things like this, which is why I try to be civil and discuss my reasons behind my thoughts instead of simply going "OMG SARAH HATER, DIE MONSTER!!!" I appreciate that you tried to explain the reason behind your opinions as well, even though I don't agree with your reasoning.
And I'm not covering Sarah's part. I'm simply saying it's wrong to place the blame on her alone.
And that's why I don't like to talk about Sarah specifically. I hate most of the group, Not only Sarah.
No, I have seen it before, People… more trying to shut me up. You may not be like that, But there's a lot of people like that on here, And that's why i took a break in the last month, I rarely visited the forums.
A lot of people are responsible for his death. Covering Sarah's part in it doesn't make sense to me.
Well, at least you hate with equality.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear that some people are so intolerant of your opinion. I like discussing … morethings like this, which is why I try to be civil and discuss my reasons behind my thoughts instead of simply going "OMG SARAH HATER, DIE MONSTER!!!" I appreciate that you tried to explain the reason behind your opinions as well, even though I don't agree with your reasoning.
And I'm not covering Sarah's part. I'm simply saying it's wrong to place the blame on her alone.
The dislike or hatred of Sarah is based off how people view her of course. You could give people 100000 reasons why Gandhi was a good man, I bet people still can find a reason to hate him. Coming from someone who dislikes Sarah (not hate her) I will give my reasons for my attitude towards her. I'll start off with your points:
"==> But Sarah talked when Carver was talking! Ok, you're going to give her shit for not kissing the ass of a psychopath, you be my guest. But frankly, if that's truly your opinion, it says one hell of a lot more about your character (or the lack thereof) than it does about Sarah. Crack a history book, check out what always happens when groups of people humor psychopathic leaders, and then get back to me. There are many reasons why human history is basically one long tale of war, exploitation, and bloodshed. Fear, cowardice, and the abhorrence of nonconformity are three of the biggest.
Congratulations, you're part of the problem. Bravo."
Before you drag the entire group of people who dislike or hate Sarah to those who are the problems for war, look at the reasons why and compare them to your own defense. Your point would be good if this wasn't Sarah we were talking about. She didn't keep talking because she was fighting against Carver's oppression, she kept talking because she didn't expect or consider consequences for her actions and acted as if their situation was some sort of day outing. If your life or the life of your friends is the only hope you have in the world, then Sarah just jeopardized that because she couldn't keep her yap shut for a minute or two. If you were in this situation, whats would you do? Keep talking to show your "superiority" over Carver, or shut up to prevent harm from either you or your friends from the wrath of an obvious psychopath? Sarah is no freedom fighter.
"==>It was Sarah's fault that Carver threw Reggie off the roof! Do you truly believe that a terrified and completely unarmed girl somehow "forced" a psychopath to murder a one-armed man? Why are you holding Sarah responsible for Carver's choices? Again, completely and utterly illogical."
I don't blame her from Carver's actions, I believe he was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie. But i hold her responsible for what she didn't do. She gave Carver that excuse (unwillingly) but it still was a result of her. If Sarah was tied down and unable to cut the dead leaves, then I would completely agree it was illogical. She had enough of her faculties to cut the leaves, but not to follow, "Cut brown not green?" Unless she is color blind or doesn't know the difference between dead leaves and leaves that are alive, I don't see how not cutting the right ones was not her fault. (Remember, not holding her responsible for Reggie's death, her mistake just opened that window)
==> Sarah freaked out when her father died! So what? If you (especially as a teenager) saw your father shot and then chewed on by zombies right in front of you, wouldn't you? Assuming you don't have a serious personality disorder (ASPD), you'd freak out, too. So, we're going to blame her for not respecting a psychopath, and then we're going to blame her for not being one herself?
I completely agree that I would most likely yell at the top of my lungs if this happened to me. But you don't need to be a psychopathy to hold it in until the appropriate time. (I would still blame myself for yelling, I just didn't have the strength to hold it down) What I will say lastly is what I believe the real reason Sarah is hated.
She is iike Ben in the fact that her mistakes lead to greater disasters. The sad fact is when your in a situation like TWD, mistakes not only cost you your life, but the life of those around you. I think many who hate Sarah understand Chuck's words to be the end all be all of TWD philosophy:
"I don't know much 'bout you folks, but y'all keep goin' like this and that girl ain't gon' make it. You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."
I get it, Ben was in a desperate situation, his friends were in danger (or so he thought) so he made a deal with the bandits. That still doesn't change the fact his actions led to the death or exile of most of the first group. Like I said, if life is all there is to hold onto in TWD universe, actions like Ben's are inexcusable (to the view of the group). Even though he had the best intentions.
"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding."-Albert Camus
I think the quote above sums up my point, ignorance is something both hated and disliked around the world. Camus, Plato, Socrates, and a bunch of other philosophers agree that the only evil in this world is ignorance, which is displayed by Sarah and Ben (Though I don't agree, I'm just giving possibilities as why someone would hate them both) Carlos implies she is indeed very ignorant when he states,""If she knew how bad the world is, what it's really like out there,she would cease to function." Not implying anything mentally wrong with her, just that she will not emotionally accept it.
Elistra, you are absolutely brilliant! There are many comments where people ask why others like Sarah, and most of the time no one even bothers to explain their reason for disliking her.
Remember when Clementine saw her parents dead in the middle of a herd? Did she start screaming louder than she ever has before and endanger everyone? No?
This is what boils down to. I understand they're different characters, but this is why I like Clementine and I don't like Sarah. I'm sure a bunch of people want to misinterpret my comment and think that I'm saying, "Sarah is terrible! I hate her! I was cheering when zombies tore her apart!" No. She's not an interesting character and she left no impact on me as a player---bad character
There's a difference between seeing you're parents have been longed dead (which would've been even less surprising if you had Lee tell Clem they were dead beforehand), and seeing your parents suddenly get devoured right in front of you. Remember that Kenny reacted in exactly the same way when Sarita was eaten; loud screaming, running blindly into the herd, becoming nearly catatonic.
And I'm fine with people disliking Sarah, but please don't just outright say something like "she's not an interesting character" or "she's a bad character". That's just bad form because you're implying that's fact, not opinion, an opinion that plenty of people disagree with. Is it that hard to just say something like "I wasn't particularly interested by Sarah's character"? I respect your opinion, please respect other people's opinions as well.
Remember when Clementine saw her parents dead in the middle of a herd? Did she start screaming louder than she ever has before and endanger … moreeveryone? No?
This is what boils down to. I understand they're different characters, but this is why I like Clementine and I don't like Sarah. I'm sure a bunch of people want to misinterpret my comment and think that I'm saying, "Sarah is terrible! I hate her! I was cheering when zombies tore her apart!" No. She's not an interesting character and she left no impact on me as a player---bad character
I won't lie, I never liked Sarah. However, I tried my damned hardest to keep her alive throughout Amid the Ruins cause I felt her character arc was going somewhere really interesting. Plus I felt an obligation to help her survive and get her through that horrible loss she endured.
I realised that if Sarah had survived that balcony collapse, she would probably have been snapped out of her catatonic state she was in. Not only was she calling for Clementine's aid, but she was genuinely fighting to free herself from the rubble. I suspect Jane knew this too, which may explain her departure.
Apparently TT were more interested in using Sarah as a tragic set-piece for Clementine's survival though.
Calm down, son. You don't need to swear and 'put words in people's mouths', and I still stand by my point: he found it funny that a girl got hit for interrupting a psychopath, and made a joke about it.
I dunno about you but that stuff ain't funny to me. If you think it's totally innocent, though, all power to you.
They thought people hated Sarah because she was being 'stupid' for speaking when the psychopath was making his grand speech. Not endorsing c… morehild violence.
Don't put words in people's mouths, especially when the context you put in paints them in a bad light.
Wouldn't you find it dumb if your friend asked how you felt after you just got kidnapped right infront of your fucking kidnapper? Your aggressive, psychotic, kidnapper?
It's not less surprising if you didn't tell Clementine that. If you keep her hopeful about her parents, she still has the same reaction to seeing them, so that's a moot point. She constantly held hope that they were alive. If I was Sarah and saw my father get devoured in front of me, would I scream? Probably. Would I shit my pants and be unable to move, probably drawing walkers around me until I was devoured? Probably. Would I continue to scream louder than I've ever have before, endangering everyone around me, nearly getting everyone killed, getting Sarita bitten, and then running off causing the death of someone else? No. I wouldn't do that. And I didn't mention Kenny in my original post...
What made you think I wasn't respecting other people's opinions? I said Sarah left no impact on me as a player, which made her a bad character (which I also thought implied she was a bad character to me)
Don't get me wrong. I tried to save Sarah both times. I loved Jane and I was willing to sacrifice her for Sarah. I just feel like there's something more to Sarah that I'm clearly not seeing. What about her made her a lovable character, besides potential?
There's a difference between seeing you're parents have been longed dead (which would've been even less surprising if you had Lee tell Clem … morethey were dead beforehand), and seeing your parents suddenly get devoured right in front of you. Remember that Kenny reacted in exactly the same way when Sarita was eaten; loud screaming, running blindly into the herd, becoming nearly catatonic.
And I'm fine with people disliking Sarah, but please don't just outright say something like "she's not an interesting character" or "she's a bad character". That's just bad form because you're implying that's fact, not opinion, an opinion that plenty of people disagree with. Is it that hard to just say something like "I wasn't particularly interested by Sarah's character"? I respect your opinion, please respect other people's opinions as well.
You can compare anything and anybody , they were both bad for the group , both caused issues , potentially did or would of gotton people killed they are sort of the same except one is worse , which one idk
I meant that seeing a long dead loved one is nowhere near as traumatizing as watching a loved get suddenly and brutally killed. I imagine Clem would have reacted differently if, rather than simply catching a glimpse of her long dead parents, she found her parents alive and then they were abruptly and gruesomely killed right in front of her. Remember how vocally upset she got when she witnessed Larry get killed? And I mentioned Kenny because he reacted to a loved one's death just as bad, if not as bad, as Sarah did.
And if you didn't mean to disrespect other people's opinions, than my apologies. It's just that "She's not an interesting character" made it seem like you meant it as fact, not opinion.
And I'll just copy-paste something I posted earlier: I and many others found Sarah compelling because she was relatable and unique. She possibly had a debilitating mental condition and a father who was actively holding her back from reaching her full potential. In spite of this, she was still kind-hearted, tried to be helpful, and nowhere near as huge a liability or threat as people claim. Sarah's fans were cheering for her because she could've proved that even if you're "weak", that doesn't mean you're worthless or deserve to die.
There's also the fact that she stood up to Carver if he hit Clem, in spite of her crippling fear of violence. She also tried to keep Clem's spirits up (if you don't take her photo, she explains she was just trying to cheer Clem up). Her innocence was also pretty refreshing after the horrible and depressing events that occurred before, like Omid's death. Well, this is just my opinion, I'm fine if you weren't particularly interested by her.
It's not less surprising if you didn't tell Clementine that. If you keep her hopeful about her parents, she still has the same reaction to s… moreeeing them, so that's a moot point. She constantly held hope that they were alive. If I was Sarah and saw my father get devoured in front of me, would I scream? Probably. Would I shit my pants and be unable to move, probably drawing walkers around me until I was devoured? Probably. Would I continue to scream louder than I've ever have before, endangering everyone around me, nearly getting everyone killed, getting Sarita bitten, and then running off causing the death of someone else? No. I wouldn't do that. And I didn't mention Kenny in my original post...
What made you think I wasn't respecting other people's opinions? I said Sarah left no impact on me as a player, which made her a bad character (which I also thought implied she was a bad character to me)
Don't get me wrong. I tried to save Sarah bo… [view original content]
Calm down, son. You don't need to swear and 'put words in people's mouths', and I still stand by my point: he found it funny that a girl go… moret hit for interrupting a psychopath, and made a joke about it.
I dunno about you but that stuff ain't funny to me. If you think it's totally innocent, though, all power to you.
I don't hate Sarah, I hate Carlos for turning her into the way she is.
Hate to say it, but Carver was right. You need to get tough on kids. You can't shelter her from the real word. She'll die within a day when she's out on her own. Carlos was giving Sarah a false sense of security. The minute I saw Sarah I started exploring options to maybe help her toughen up.
She's also arguably the friendliest newcomer to Clementine in the entirety of the first episode. Pete and Luke may have trusted her but had to go along with the group, while Alvin had to kowtow to his wife's demands. Sarah, on the other hand, was allowed no involvement in deciding Clem's fate and decides on her own initiative to help her out when Clem asks for it, even if it means disobeying her dad.
I meant that seeing a long dead loved one is nowhere near as traumatizing as watching a loved get suddenly and brutally killed. I imagine Cl… moreem would have reacted differently if, rather than simply catching a glimpse of her long dead parents, she found her parents alive and then they were abruptly and gruesomely killed right in front of her. Remember how vocally upset she got when she witnessed Larry get killed? And I mentioned Kenny because he reacted to a loved one's death just as bad, if not as bad, as Sarah did.
And if you didn't mean to disrespect other people's opinions, than my apologies. It's just that "She's not an interesting character" made it seem like you meant it as fact, not opinion.
And I'll just copy-paste something I posted earlier:
I and many others found Sarah compelling because she was relatable and unique. She possibly had a debilitating mental condition and a father who was actively holding her back from reaching … [view original content]
1) bullsh*t
2) what do you mean? that game is proof, and i didn't say it was meant as a stereotype i said "or she is one of the worst exa… moremples of a girl stereotype the walking dead game has had" it is probably unintentionally a stereotype
3) i didn't blame anybody i just stated what she was
4) i didn't say it wasn't understandable (for her) i just stated it and said she almost died because of it
you're the one who has no understanding and you are just reading things that i didn't write to prove your point and actually you have a point about "seeing a deficit in themselves, one they're psychologically projecting onto" me
edit because you added it later
5)i liked bens personality, i don't like sarah's, and that is all i need to form an opinion on whether i like a fictional character or not
A college education is a pretty mundane thing to have. Why would I lie about that? What would be the point? Yes, I majored in psych, and yes, I graduated. It's not that outrageous a claim, really.
I'm honestly curious as to the why for the "haterade". Some people dislike others as a matter of principle, because the behavior of the other person violates the values they hold dear. If such a person holds honesty as a core value, they will likely not like people who lie. If they believe stealing is wrong, they will probably reject someone who is a thief, and so on. But for a lot of people out there, it's completely irrational.
They decide they don't like Bob for whatever reason, and then all of a sudden, everything Bob is, does, says, and thinks is just the WORST EVER and only serves as further proof of how worthless Bob is. They'll bitch about how trashy Bob is for having his front yard strewn with car parts and a rusted old hulk up on blocks, but will completely ignore the fact that their friend Joe's yard is equally bad, or even try to talk Joe's mess up into being a virtue, because after all, "It's only because Joe is so good with mechanical things, that's why he keeps all that stuff, he might need it someday."
If you point out this discrepancy, "Joe's front yard is just as bad as Bob's, but you don't think Joe is trashy because of it?" they will get offended and start in with a, "Well, that's different!" sort of rant. But in point of fact, it is no different, objectively speaking. It's only different in their minds, because they have already decided they don't like Bob and have "painted him black", almost to the extent one would expect to see out of a Narcissist or a Borderline when they are in the 'devaluation' phase of their relationship cycle with their current partner. (No, all "haters" probably aren't Narcissists or Borderlines, but that still doesn't answer the question of why, or what exactly they are.)
My current idea is that this might be related to Carl Jung's cognitive functions in some way... basically, Introverted Feeling vs Extraverted Feeling. Feeling functions don't just involve emotions, but morals and values, also. Those who have Introverted Feeling somewhere in their conscious function stack typically decide right and wrong based on inner values, while those with Extraverted Feeling tend to rely more on what other people like and agree with, what is considered normal in the culture, etc. to determine right and wrong from a values standpoint.
Here's the problem. If you've ever taken the Myers-Briggs personality test or any test based off the MBTI (Keirsey, etc.), you were given a four-letter code which roughly describes your personality in that system. Everyone has a Thinking function, a Feeling function, an Intuitive function, and a Sensory function. These cognitive functions can be introverted or extraverted in expression, and are used in different orders of preference. (My own MBTI is ENTJ, if it matters to you.) Basically, according to Jung's work (and the MBTI, which was later based off it) this means that my personality is structured such that my cognitive Feeling function (Introverted Feeling, in my case) is at the bottom of my conscious function stack. I'm clumsy as fuck with "feels" just in general, and Extraverted Feeling in particular, because it is not part of my conscious stack at all. How I was raised offers no insight into that function either -- my parents (ESTJ and INTJ) also have the Introverted Feeling function on the conscious part of the stack, and low in the stack for both (bottom and second from bottom, respectively).
So I think, maybe this "haterade bullshit" (which is what I'd call it when I'm not trying like hell to be tactful... tact is a work in progress for me and probably always will be), is related somehow to the Extraverted Feeling function, because of how such people derive their morals and values. But then, if that is so, how does one explain the devaluation phase in those with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is more or less "haterade bullshit", as well? Many Borderlines (although by no means all) are ESFP, ISFP, ENFP, or INFP by the Myers-Briggs, which is to say they have *Introverted Feeling * in the conscious function stack, not Extraverted.
Whenever I hit a theoretical boondoggle that I cannot cut through, I typically have a long talk with my husband. Nobody parses theory down to the finest niggling detail quite like an INTP, and he has a BA in psych as well -- we met as psych majors in college, and took many of the same professors. But he has hit somewhat of a wall on this one, a limitation in his own processing. He actually does have Extraverted Feeling as part of his conscious function stack, according to Jung/Myers/Briggs, but it is at the bottom, the same place where Introverted Feeling is in me. He understands the workings of the "haterade" but cannot find the words to explain it to me, he says. I do not fault him for this (I have similar articulation problems with my own feels at times), but at the same time, it does not answer the question.
This is frustrating.
Anyhow, I cannot make sense of these things as they stand, and so I am looking for data. I'm probably overreaching -- the devaluation phase of NPD and BPD probably has no relation to the "haterade" experienced by some healthy (or mostly healthy people). There's probably no equivalent of a unified field theory on these things. But still, I wonder....
I'm honestly curious as to the why for the "haterade". Some people dislike others as a matter of principle, because the behavior of the othe… morer person violates the values they hold dear. If such a person holds honesty as a core value, they will likely not like people who lie. If they believe stealing is wrong, they will probably reject someone who is a thief, and so on. But for a lot of people out there, it's completely irrational.
They decide they don't like Bob for whatever reason, and then all of a sudden, everything Bob is, does, says, and thinks is just the WORST EVER and only serves as further proof of how worthless Bob is. They'll bitch about how trashy Bob is for having his front yard strewn with car parts and a rusted old hulk up on blocks, but will completely ignore the fact that their friend Joe's yard is equally bad, or even try to talk Joe's mess up into being a virtue, because after all, "It's only because Joe is so good with m… [view original content]
f I could do psychobabble, I'd write books or try to get a radio show or something. But I can't, and my general lack of tact only exacerbates it.
Haha, I could imagine it now... turning to someone and saying, "Did it ever occur to you that the reason why your boyfriends keep dumping you is that you're a dumb slut who sleeps with anything that moves and does all the drugs she can lay her hands on, but then whines and cries and blames everyone but herself for her problems, instead of cleaning up her act? You really need to get over your daddy issues, get some self-respect, and work on developing an internal locus of control, ok?"
^^ This would NOT go over well, LOL.
Basically, I am wondering if a disproportionate number of the "Sarah Hater" people would score as one of the following on the MBTI - ENFJ, INFJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENTP, INTP, ESTP, or ISTP.
"Both were bad for the group, both caused issues, both got people killed."
That's super broad and super subjective and can be said about a lot of characters in the game honestly.
Sarah sucks .... she would of gotton somebody killed eventually ...Hey all you people who love Sarah knock yourself out but don't come crying to me when you get eaten by zombies next too her
Yes, because in a game with cannibals, a community of people willing to abandon the disabled and the elderly, a man who refused to give Molly medicine unless she prostituted herself to him, a vengeful stalker, a misogynist who shoots old people without patting an eye, a megalomaniac who stalked down a group of people because them leaving his community bruised his ego, and a racist lapdog who hits little girls... Sarah and Ben were the worst.
Well, I'm an INFP, and I was hoping that our characters would eventually be able to help Sarah out. I did think that she was a bit useless and naive, but I realized there were reasons for that, so I didn't hate her. However, I probably wouldn't have chosen to save her over anybody else in the group because she didn't seem to be able to keep her cool in bad situations, which is pretty much the most useful skill in the situation that the characters are in. Granted, other people have lost it too, but we have seen situations where they pull through. Sarah didn't have that situation.
As a matter of fact, thinking back, the only reason I cared so much about helping Sarah survive was she was the only one who helped Clementine in episode one. That showed the same sort of problems that I had with her later, her naiveness, her not understanding that strangers can be dangerous, her niceness overriding the pragmatism needed to survive in the long run, but I just felt like it was pretty awesome of her to help out in that situation, hah. Overall, I guess my opinions on characters really centers around how they treat the character that I'm playing. Yeah, I'll go with that.
f I could do psychobabble, I'd write books or try to get a radio show or something. But I can't, and my general lack of tact only exacerbate… mores it.
Haha, I could imagine it now... turning to someone and saying, "Did it ever occur to you that the reason why your boyfriends keep dumping you is that you're a dumb slut who sleeps with anything that moves and does all the drugs she can lay her hands on, but then whines and cries and blames everyone but herself for her problems, instead of cleaning up her act? You really need to get over your daddy issues, get some self-respect, and work on developing an internal locus of control, ok?"
^^ This would NOT go over well, LOL.
Basically, I am wondering if a disproportionate number of the "Sarah Hater" people would score as one of the following on the MBTI - ENFJ, INFJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENTP, INTP, ESTP, or ISTP.
Me too. I don't give a shit about how 'pragmatic' the irrational survivors really were in the first episode. If they treated Clem like crap, they didn't deserve my sympathy. If they gave her a chance, then they deserve my help.
Well, I'm an INFP, and I was hoping that our characters would eventually be able to help Sarah out. I did think that she was a bit useless a… morend naive, but I realized there were reasons for that, so I didn't hate her. However, I probably wouldn't have chosen to save her over anybody else in the group because she didn't seem to be able to keep her cool in bad situations, which is pretty much the most useful skill in the situation that the characters are in. Granted, other people have lost it too, but we have seen situations where they pull through. Sarah didn't have that situation.
As a matter of fact, thinking back, the only reason I cared so much about helping Sarah survive was she was the only one who helped Clementine in episode one. That showed the same sort of problems that I had with her later, her naiveness, her not understanding that strangers can be dangerous, her niceness overriding the pragmatism needed to survive in the long run,… [view original content]
Sarah sucks .... she would of gotton somebody killed eventually ...Hey all you people who love Sarah knock yourself out but don't come crying to me when you get eaten by zombies next too her
Comments
Kenny, Mike, Luke, and Nick literally abandoned Clem in the herd. The plan was not to get separated. The whole reason they planned the meeting place in Parker’s run was as a contingency plan to the possibility that things might “get hairy” and they’d need a place to regroup. In fact, Jane, a survivalist, stressed the importance of simply not clumping together, and even went back to help Clem and Rebecca.
And I don’t like Kenny either, high-five!
Sarah doesn’t act as she’s “supposed to”? Then, pray tell, how should a neurodivergent teenage girl being hindered by an idiotic father supposed to do in order to survive? She tried to help people in trouble (Clem). She took initiative and tried to adapt to the ZA as soon as her father was absent and the opportunity presented itself. Sarah did the best she could in her situation, which is why people pity and sympathize with her, rather than hate her for no good reason. Once again, I can understand people disliking or finding her annoying because she wasn’t the most capable survivor. But the bottom line is that hating or thinking she deserved to die for “weakness” is a frankly disturbing mindset, and you yourself admitted that Sarah had the potential to evolve under Clem’s supervision.
And Sarah caused a mess…?
I was hoping the ep 4 slide was really a blood sacrifice of Kenny and Luke to bring back our god, Ben.
Well, Things did get hairy and everyone was looking for their own survival, Completely understandable.
She had the potential, Yes, But in the long run, Not the short one. My own personality is very quick-thinking one and I always work my way out of any trouble, So it kinda bugs me when Someone can't really be that adaptive. Sarah wasn't adaptive, But she could have been taught to be a survivor just like everyone else. But, As I have already said, In S1, She'd have made it, In S2, I don't think so. Sarah isn't really my matter of concern and I don't like to talk much about her, But how The Sarah Supporters try to crash Sarah haters disturbs me.
Well, Frankly speaking, If she did do her work, Reggie wouldn't have ended up dead. Yes, Carver wanted to kill him, But if she did her work, He wouldn't have found an excuse to do so. That's just one example.
Completely understandable, yes. I was simply refuting your claim that Sarah alone was being stupid in that situation. Everyone was stupid. Everyone irrationally abandoned each other and put each other at risk. Once again, you can't single out Sarah here.
I’m glad that you at least recognize that Sarah wasn’t a hopeless case, because she really wasn’t. And that’s why some people really pity her; she could have survived if not for extremely bad luck in situation and circumstance. Likewise, I can understand your mindset of “not my matter of concern”. She wasn’t the most helpful survivor (though she did help save Clem’s life in episode 1), and I can understand that some people don’t appreciate that she wasn’t as useful as, say, Molly or Carley.
And Sarah fans wouldn’t “crash” Sarah haters if there was actually a valid reason to hate her and wish brutal death upon her. I said it before, disliking or finding her annoying is understandable, but that’s about it.
Frankly speaking, Carver would’ve found literally any other inane reason in the world to kill Reggie no matter what. He said himself that Reggie’s been making a “string of screw-ups” lately. And you know what? If Clem had simply cut her own berries and told Sarah to watch her do so for a minute so she would know what to do, then they both would've finished their work. Clem's just as much to blame.
But, Separating yourself from the group entirely with no weapons or survival knowledge in the ZA is suicide, Don't you think?
Telltale forums have unfortunately become a place where the majority wants to extinguish the existence of the minority, That's where i step in. That's all.
I agree. But Clem isn't really the one to blame, The game had to give you a choice.
Aw, George.
Well, it was also stupid to fondle a bite victim in the middle of a herd. And freezing in the middle of escaping an extremely dangerous situation. Kenny and Rebecca were no better. And I still find it pretty stupid to abandon each other during the escape. Luke and Nick at least had the reason of going to save Sarah. Kenny and Mike had no reason to leave Clem to die without even looking back.
I think the only "minorities" being extinguished are the ones with no valid or rational justifications behind their opinions.
And yeah, it's not fair to blame Clem, just as it's not fair to blame Sarah. It's Carver's fault for liking berries too much. Actually, now that I think about it, Reggie's pretty responsible for his own situation as well. He sure as hell knew that Sarah probably had a mental condition, yet irresponsibly passed on the task of supervising her to Clem, an 11-year old girl, giving the shitty excuse of "I'm not good with that kind of stuff". What, you're not good at supervising? Which is your only job???
I don't hate Sarah. I just wish she was more developed, therfore her death wouldn't be forgotten as quickly as it was introduced.
And that's why I don't like to talk about Sarah specifically. I hate most of the group, Not only Sarah.
No, I have seen it before, People trying to shut me up. You may not be like that, But there's a lot of people like that on here, And that's why i took a break in the last month, I rarely visited the forums.
A lot of people are responsible for his death. Covering Sarah's part in it doesn't make sense to me.
Well, at least you hate with equality.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear that some people are so intolerant of your opinion. I like discussing things like this, which is why I try to be civil and discuss my reasons behind my thoughts instead of simply going "OMG SARAH HATER, DIE MONSTER!!!" I appreciate that you tried to explain the reason behind your opinions as well, even though I don't agree with your reasoning.
And I'm not covering Sarah's part. I'm simply saying it's wrong to place the blame on her alone.
Only certain type of characters interest me, I'm neutral to the rest.
I do like it this way too.
And I agree with you on that.
The dislike or hatred of Sarah is based off how people view her of course. You could give people 100000 reasons why Gandhi was a good man, I bet people still can find a reason to hate him. Coming from someone who dislikes Sarah (not hate her) I will give my reasons for my attitude towards her. I'll start off with your points:
"==> But Sarah talked when Carver was talking! Ok, you're going to give her shit for not kissing the ass of a psychopath, you be my guest. But frankly, if that's truly your opinion, it says one hell of a lot more about your character (or the lack thereof) than it does about Sarah. Crack a history book, check out what always happens when groups of people humor psychopathic leaders, and then get back to me. There are many reasons why human history is basically one long tale of war, exploitation, and bloodshed. Fear, cowardice, and the abhorrence of nonconformity are three of the biggest.
Congratulations, you're part of the problem. Bravo."
Before you drag the entire group of people who dislike or hate Sarah to those who are the problems for war, look at the reasons why and compare them to your own defense. Your point would be good if this wasn't Sarah we were talking about. She didn't keep talking because she was fighting against Carver's oppression, she kept talking because she didn't expect or consider consequences for her actions and acted as if their situation was some sort of day outing. If your life or the life of your friends is the only hope you have in the world, then Sarah just jeopardized that because she couldn't keep her yap shut for a minute or two. If you were in this situation, whats would you do? Keep talking to show your "superiority" over Carver, or shut up to prevent harm from either you or your friends from the wrath of an obvious psychopath? Sarah is no freedom fighter.
"==>It was Sarah's fault that Carver threw Reggie off the roof! Do you truly believe that a terrified and completely unarmed girl somehow "forced" a psychopath to murder a one-armed man? Why are you holding Sarah responsible for Carver's choices? Again, completely and utterly illogical."
I don't blame her from Carver's actions, I believe he was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie. But i hold her responsible for what she didn't do. She gave Carver that excuse (unwillingly) but it still was a result of her. If Sarah was tied down and unable to cut the dead leaves, then I would completely agree it was illogical. She had enough of her faculties to cut the leaves, but not to follow, "Cut brown not green?" Unless she is color blind or doesn't know the difference between dead leaves and leaves that are alive, I don't see how not cutting the right ones was not her fault. (Remember, not holding her responsible for Reggie's death, her mistake just opened that window)
==> Sarah freaked out when her father died! So what? If you (especially as a teenager) saw your father shot and then chewed on by zombies right in front of you, wouldn't you? Assuming you don't have a serious personality disorder (ASPD), you'd freak out, too. So, we're going to blame her for not respecting a psychopath, and then we're going to blame her for not being one herself?
I completely agree that I would most likely yell at the top of my lungs if this happened to me. But you don't need to be a psychopathy to hold it in until the appropriate time. (I would still blame myself for yelling, I just didn't have the strength to hold it down) What I will say lastly is what I believe the real reason Sarah is hated.
She is iike Ben in the fact that her mistakes lead to greater disasters. The sad fact is when your in a situation like TWD, mistakes not only cost you your life, but the life of those around you. I think many who hate Sarah understand Chuck's words to be the end all be all of TWD philosophy:
"I don't know much 'bout you folks, but y'all keep goin' like this and that girl ain't gon' make it. You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."
I get it, Ben was in a desperate situation, his friends were in danger (or so he thought) so he made a deal with the bandits. That still doesn't change the fact his actions led to the death or exile of most of the first group. Like I said, if life is all there is to hold onto in TWD universe, actions like Ben's are inexcusable (to the view of the group). Even though he had the best intentions.
"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding."-Albert Camus
I think the quote above sums up my point, ignorance is something both hated and disliked around the world. Camus, Plato, Socrates, and a bunch of other philosophers agree that the only evil in this world is ignorance, which is displayed by Sarah and Ben (Though I don't agree, I'm just giving possibilities as why someone would hate them both) Carlos implies she is indeed very ignorant when he states,""If she knew how bad the world is, what it's really like out there,she would cease to function." Not implying anything mentally wrong with her, just that she will not emotionally accept it.
lol Looks like Nick is Ben 2.0
Elistra, you are absolutely brilliant! There are many comments where people ask why others like Sarah, and most of the time no one even bothers to explain their reason for disliking her.
Remember when Clementine saw her parents dead in the middle of a herd? Did she start screaming louder than she ever has before and endanger everyone? No?
This is what boils down to. I understand they're different characters, but this is why I like Clementine and I don't like Sarah. I'm sure a bunch of people want to misinterpret my comment and think that I'm saying, "Sarah is terrible! I hate her! I was cheering when zombies tore her apart!" No. She's not an interesting character and she left no impact on me as a player---bad character
There's a difference between seeing you're parents have been longed dead (which would've been even less surprising if you had Lee tell Clem they were dead beforehand), and seeing your parents suddenly get devoured right in front of you. Remember that Kenny reacted in exactly the same way when Sarita was eaten; loud screaming, running blindly into the herd, becoming nearly catatonic.
And I'm fine with people disliking Sarah, but please don't just outright say something like "she's not an interesting character" or "she's a bad character". That's just bad form because you're implying that's fact, not opinion, an opinion that plenty of people disagree with. Is it that hard to just say something like "I wasn't particularly interested by Sarah's character"? I respect your opinion, please respect other people's opinions as well.
Naivety is a reason to hate her? Wow that's so stupid.. -____-
And not once has there ever been signs of naivety. Get your shit straight kid.
I won't lie, I never liked Sarah. However, I tried my damned hardest to keep her alive throughout Amid the Ruins cause I felt her character arc was going somewhere really interesting. Plus I felt an obligation to help her survive and get her through that horrible loss she endured.
I realised that if Sarah had survived that balcony collapse, she would probably have been snapped out of her catatonic state she was in. Not only was she calling for Clementine's aid, but she was genuinely fighting to free herself from the rubble. I suspect Jane knew this too, which may explain her departure.
Apparently TT were more interested in using Sarah as a tragic set-piece for Clementine's survival though.
I'm so glad sarah died, she's a frickin liability and should've been eaten by zambies after the first encounter
Calm down, son. You don't need to swear and 'put words in people's mouths', and I still stand by my point: he found it funny that a girl got hit for interrupting a psychopath, and made a joke about it.
I dunno about you but that stuff ain't funny to me. If you think it's totally innocent, though, all power to you.
It's not less surprising if you didn't tell Clementine that. If you keep her hopeful about her parents, she still has the same reaction to seeing them, so that's a moot point. She constantly held hope that they were alive. If I was Sarah and saw my father get devoured in front of me, would I scream? Probably. Would I shit my pants and be unable to move, probably drawing walkers around me until I was devoured? Probably. Would I continue to scream louder than I've ever have before, endangering everyone around me, nearly getting everyone killed, getting Sarita bitten, and then running off causing the death of someone else? No. I wouldn't do that. And I didn't mention Kenny in my original post...
What made you think I wasn't respecting other people's opinions? I said Sarah left no impact on me as a player, which made her a bad character (which I also thought implied she was a bad character to me)
Don't get me wrong. I tried to save Sarah both times. I loved Jane and I was willing to sacrifice her for Sarah. I just feel like there's something more to Sarah that I'm clearly not seeing. What about her made her a lovable character, besides potential?
"Both were bad for the group, both caused issues, both got people killed."
That's super broad and super subjective and can be said about a lot of characters in the game honestly.
I meant that seeing a long dead loved one is nowhere near as traumatizing as watching a loved get suddenly and brutally killed. I imagine Clem would have reacted differently if, rather than simply catching a glimpse of her long dead parents, she found her parents alive and then they were abruptly and gruesomely killed right in front of her. Remember how vocally upset she got when she witnessed Larry get killed? And I mentioned Kenny because he reacted to a loved one's death just as bad, if not as bad, as Sarah did.
And if you didn't mean to disrespect other people's opinions, than my apologies. It's just that "She's not an interesting character" made it seem like you meant it as fact, not opinion.
And I'll just copy-paste something I posted earlier:
I and many others found Sarah compelling because she was relatable and unique. She possibly had a debilitating mental condition and a father who was actively holding her back from reaching her full potential. In spite of this, she was still kind-hearted, tried to be helpful, and nowhere near as huge a liability or threat as people claim. Sarah's fans were cheering for her because she could've proved that even if you're "weak", that doesn't mean you're worthless or deserve to die.
There's also the fact that she stood up to Carver if he hit Clem, in spite of her crippling fear of violence. She also tried to keep Clem's spirits up (if you don't take her photo, she explains she was just trying to cheer Clem up). Her innocence was also pretty refreshing after the horrible and depressing events that occurred before, like Omid's death. Well, this is just my opinion, I'm fine if you weren't particularly interested by her.
I did not make it a joke
Im just simply telling the truth of what happened
I don't hate Sarah, I hate Carlos for turning her into the way she is.
Hate to say it, but Carver was right. You need to get tough on kids. You can't shelter her from the real word. She'll die within a day when she's out on her own. Carlos was giving Sarah a false sense of security. The minute I saw Sarah I started exploring options to maybe help her toughen up.
But sadly.. no
I loved Sarah, I was so sad when she died.
She's also arguably the friendliest newcomer to Clementine in the entirety of the first episode. Pete and Luke may have trusted her but had to go along with the group, while Alvin had to kowtow to his wife's demands. Sarah, on the other hand, was allowed no involvement in deciding Clem's fate and decides on her own initiative to help her out when Clem asks for it, even if it means disobeying her dad.
I seem to have hit a nerve... lol.
As I said, completely irrational.
I'm getting real tired of the forums first year psychology student bullshit.
A college education is a pretty mundane thing to have. Why would I lie about that? What would be the point? Yes, I majored in psych, and yes, I graduated. It's not that outrageous a claim, really.
I'm honestly curious as to the why for the "haterade". Some people dislike others as a matter of principle, because the behavior of the other person violates the values they hold dear. If such a person holds honesty as a core value, they will likely not like people who lie. If they believe stealing is wrong, they will probably reject someone who is a thief, and so on. But for a lot of people out there, it's completely irrational.
They decide they don't like Bob for whatever reason, and then all of a sudden, everything Bob is, does, says, and thinks is just the WORST EVER and only serves as further proof of how worthless Bob is. They'll bitch about how trashy Bob is for having his front yard strewn with car parts and a rusted old hulk up on blocks, but will completely ignore the fact that their friend Joe's yard is equally bad, or even try to talk Joe's mess up into being a virtue, because after all, "It's only because Joe is so good with mechanical things, that's why he keeps all that stuff, he might need it someday."
If you point out this discrepancy, "Joe's front yard is just as bad as Bob's, but you don't think Joe is trashy because of it?" they will get offended and start in with a, "Well, that's different!" sort of rant. But in point of fact, it is no different, objectively speaking. It's only different in their minds, because they have already decided they don't like Bob and have "painted him black", almost to the extent one would expect to see out of a Narcissist or a Borderline when they are in the 'devaluation' phase of their relationship cycle with their current partner. (No, all "haters" probably aren't Narcissists or Borderlines, but that still doesn't answer the question of why, or what exactly they are.)
My current idea is that this might be related to Carl Jung's cognitive functions in some way... basically, Introverted Feeling vs Extraverted Feeling. Feeling functions don't just involve emotions, but morals and values, also. Those who have Introverted Feeling somewhere in their conscious function stack typically decide right and wrong based on inner values, while those with Extraverted Feeling tend to rely more on what other people like and agree with, what is considered normal in the culture, etc. to determine right and wrong from a values standpoint.
Here's the problem. If you've ever taken the Myers-Briggs personality test or any test based off the MBTI (Keirsey, etc.), you were given a four-letter code which roughly describes your personality in that system. Everyone has a Thinking function, a Feeling function, an Intuitive function, and a Sensory function. These cognitive functions can be introverted or extraverted in expression, and are used in different orders of preference. (My own MBTI is ENTJ, if it matters to you.) Basically, according to Jung's work (and the MBTI, which was later based off it) this means that my personality is structured such that my cognitive Feeling function (Introverted Feeling, in my case) is at the bottom of my conscious function stack. I'm clumsy as fuck with "feels" just in general, and Extraverted Feeling in particular, because it is not part of my conscious stack at all. How I was raised offers no insight into that function either -- my parents (ESTJ and INTJ) also have the Introverted Feeling function on the conscious part of the stack, and low in the stack for both (bottom and second from bottom, respectively).
So I think, maybe this "haterade bullshit" (which is what I'd call it when I'm not trying like hell to be tactful... tact is a work in progress for me and probably always will be), is related somehow to the Extraverted Feeling function, because of how such people derive their morals and values. But then, if that is so, how does one explain the devaluation phase in those with Borderline Personality Disorder, which is more or less "haterade bullshit", as well? Many Borderlines (although by no means all) are ESFP, ISFP, ENFP, or INFP by the Myers-Briggs, which is to say they have *Introverted Feeling * in the conscious function stack, not Extraverted.
Whenever I hit a theoretical boondoggle that I cannot cut through, I typically have a long talk with my husband. Nobody parses theory down to the finest niggling detail quite like an INTP, and he has a BA in psych as well -- we met as psych majors in college, and took many of the same professors. But he has hit somewhat of a wall on this one, a limitation in his own processing. He actually does have Extraverted Feeling as part of his conscious function stack, according to Jung/Myers/Briggs, but it is at the bottom, the same place where Introverted Feeling is in me. He understands the workings of the "haterade" but cannot find the words to explain it to me, he says. I do not fault him for this (I have similar articulation problems with my own feels at times), but at the same time, it does not answer the question.
This is frustrating.
Anyhow, I cannot make sense of these things as they stand, and so I am looking for data. I'm probably overreaching -- the devaluation phase of NPD and BPD probably has no relation to the "haterade" experienced by some healthy (or mostly healthy people). There's probably no equivalent of a unified field theory on these things. But still, I wonder....
So much psychobabble - are you insinuating that people who dislike characters like Sarah are extroverts/introverts?
f I could do psychobabble, I'd write books or try to get a radio show or something. But I can't, and my general lack of tact only exacerbates it.
Haha, I could imagine it now... turning to someone and saying, "Did it ever occur to you that the reason why your boyfriends keep dumping you is that you're a dumb slut who sleeps with anything that moves and does all the drugs she can lay her hands on, but then whines and cries and blames everyone but herself for her problems, instead of cleaning up her act? You really need to get over your daddy issues, get some self-respect, and work on developing an internal locus of control, ok?"
^^ This would NOT go over well, LOL.
Basically, I am wondering if a disproportionate number of the "Sarah Hater" people would score as one of the following on the MBTI - ENFJ, INFJ, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENTP, INTP, ESTP, or ISTP.
Really, who ? Nobody was worse then them two ...
Sarah sucks .... she would of gotton somebody killed eventually ...Hey all you people who love Sarah knock yourself out but don't come crying to me when you get eaten by zombies next too her
Yes, because in a game with cannibals, a community of people willing to abandon the disabled and the elderly, a man who refused to give Molly medicine unless she prostituted herself to him, a vengeful stalker, a misogynist who shoots old people without patting an eye, a megalomaniac who stalked down a group of people because them leaving his community bruised his ego, and a racist lapdog who hits little girls... Sarah and Ben were the worst.
Well, I'm an INFP, and I was hoping that our characters would eventually be able to help Sarah out. I did think that she was a bit useless and naive, but I realized there were reasons for that, so I didn't hate her. However, I probably wouldn't have chosen to save her over anybody else in the group because she didn't seem to be able to keep her cool in bad situations, which is pretty much the most useful skill in the situation that the characters are in. Granted, other people have lost it too, but we have seen situations where they pull through. Sarah didn't have that situation.
As a matter of fact, thinking back, the only reason I cared so much about helping Sarah survive was she was the only one who helped Clementine in episode one. That showed the same sort of problems that I had with her later, her naiveness, her not understanding that strangers can be dangerous, her niceness overriding the pragmatism needed to survive in the long run, but I just felt like it was pretty awesome of her to help out in that situation, hah. Overall, I guess my opinions on characters really centers around how they treat the character that I'm playing. Yeah, I'll go with that.
Me too. I don't give a shit about how 'pragmatic' the irrational survivors really were in the first episode. If they treated Clem like crap, they didn't deserve my sympathy. If they gave her a chance, then they deserve my help.
That 's what i 'm thinking. # FuckSarah
jeez what did Sarah ever do to you?