You can call Lilly a bitch in epsiode 1. She does not shoot you.
She is insulted in episode 3. She shoots her.
Something changed.
Surely you acknowledge that her father being murdered, everyone hating her and trying to lease her to die must have had some effect on her mental stability?
Kenny "drove Lilly insane" now ?
Well that is a very subjective interpretation in the first place, and a very dubious claim. What gave yo… moreu the impression she actually became insane ? I think it's a convenient way to exonerate her from part of her responsibility.
And make your mind please. "that in no way absolves her of murdering someone".
Ever heard of insanity defense ? A murderer proven insane can't actually be held responsible. Either she wasn't insane and is fully responsible, either she was insane and is not responsible.
Truth is, she most certainly was not. At best she had became borderline paranoid, but don't tell me she shot Carley in a fit of madness. She waited for everyone to turn their heads, she raised her gun calmly, aimed for the head, pulled the trigger, all the while with this expression of cold resolve and hate on her face. A lot of players (not only Kenny fans) pointed out jealousy as a reason for her murdering C… [view original content]
If you push on his chest enough while helping Lilly, larry takes a breath. This breath can't have been him reanimating, as pushing on someone's chest does not speed up reanimation, and it only happens if you manage to push four times within the same time limit.
Larry was revivable, Kenny did kill him.
Now, Larry might well have died shortly after being revived. But he would have said good bye to Lilly, and she needed see such a brutal death.
Please do not state 'Larry is about to turn' as a fact, as it is incorrect. We know he wasn't.
That doesn't stop Kenny's actions being understandable. But it does make them needless.
I don't agree with the word "killed" when we talk about 3-seconds-left-before-turning Larry, but right now what I'm questioning is the "ment… moreally unstable" part.
This is a highly debatable interpretation made up long ago by Lilly fans to try to make her heroin not look so bad when the whole community was damning her to hell for the assassination of an innocent character everybody was fond of.
Lilly was determined to get rid of Carley, which is not the same as being mentally unstable or crazy or insane or whatever.
I personally love Kenny, but I understand why some people don't like or even hate him. Thank god I'm not that emotionally vulnerable so I doesn't bother me that he said some bad things, after all I did too with Lee and Clem, said things that I don't mean at the given moment, so okay about him losing him shit sometimes
The other more important things is that character like Kenny is necessary for the game and strongly disagree with people saying otherwise, it would be boring if we had only typical good guys and villains, it wouldn't be as good game as it is if all characters would be perfect and making right decisions all the time, that's why there is Kenny, Bonny or Lilly...
And that's why its the best game ever to me. peace
I agree. Lilly was never right after she watched her dad get killed. She was paranoid and irrational and it came to a head at that moment. Nothing to do with whether or not she's a good moral person.
I dont think getting mad at Kenny for being a dick to you means you're emotionally vulnerable. I think its perfectly natural. I just wish Clementine had told him, "You know what? I tried to save your girlfriend's life so get off my back!" But, yeah, she's just a little kid. Its not like when Lee tells Kenny off after he refuses to help him look for Clementine. Oh that felt so good to do, lol.
I personally love Kenny, but I understand why some people don't like or even hate him. Thank god I'm not that emotionally vulnerable so I do… moreesn't bother me that he said some bad things, after all I did too with Lee and Clem, said things that I don't mean at the given moment, so okay about him losing him shit sometimes
The other more important things is that character like Kenny is necessary for the game and strongly disagree with people saying otherwise, it would be boring if we had only typical good guys and villains, it wouldn't be as good game as it is if all characters would be perfect and making right decisions all the time, that's why there is Kenny, Bonny or Lilly...
And that's why its the best game ever to me. peace
I dont think getting mad at Kenny for being a dick to you means you're emotionally vulnerable. I think its perfectly natural. I just wish Cl… moreementine had told him, "You know what? I tried to save your girlfriend's life so get off my back!" But, yeah, she's just a little kid. Its not like when Lee tells Kenny off after he refuses to help him look for Clementine. Oh that felt so good to do, lol.
Never have I liked so many posts in one thread. xD
For the record I was neutral to Kenny in season 1. I mean he annoyed me to no end but for the most part I understood his actions even if I didn't always agree with them. The most frustrating thing about him is that he's determined to be the leader. His way is the right way and to hell with what anyone else thinks. When I heard Kenny's fate was going to be explored, it was obvious he'd return but how? He died. On seeing him again, My instinct made Clem hug him just because but I really expected a proper explanation on how he got out alive. "Real lucky" was such a cop out. Ever since we've been reunited with Kenny it's clear he's mentally unstable and becoming more and more broken everyday. He's just got so much worse and his season 1 story is just being repeated all over again. YAWN. Kenny should have stayed dead in episode 1 and the returnee should have been Molly or Christa. I also don't like the fact he's almost had DOUBLE the amount of episodes Lee had.
Good points, but it's worth noting that in the majority of people's playthroughs, Kenny leaves Lee to die in episode 3 so
Also Kenny never really shows much concern for anyone apart from his family, in season 1 at least.
Like, his decision as to whether he'll rescue clem is not based on liking her, but rather based on whether he likes Lee, as he refuses to save her if he doesn't like you. If he truly cared about her then he would have come regardless.
Well, in Kenny's defense, Larry never cared about anyone but his daughter and Kenny has shown on multiple occasions he cares about people. Larry even tried to get Lee killed in s1e1 but Kenny saved him. So....yeah.
Not necessarily, because the way Lilly lost a loved one was arguably much worse and more traumatizing than the way Kenny lost a loved one. With Larry, Lilly was convinced she could save him, and he was brutally and abruptly killed by people in her group, people she trusted, so the way she became incredibly paranoid was completely understandable.
Meanwhile, Duck and Katjaa were not killed by anyone, especially not by someone Kenny trusted, which is why he didn't become a paranoid wreck.
Kenny's been through sh!t too, and he hasn't directly murdered someone who was not a danger to him or his group.
Until that happens, no matter Lily's state of mind, Kenny will be a better person.
Honestly, I don't even have the energy to be irritated by the sheer absurdity of some of your guys' complaints about Kenny being brought back, how his character sucks, how he's an asshole and has no place in season 2 etc. Usually now is when I launch into a massive Kenny defense essay, but I don't even think it's necessary to after reading the comments. You all can keep this thread as a venting place for your Kenny hate, its not going to change anything. It seems to me that you've let your hatred for Kenny ruin the game(or season 2) for you. That must suck.
I agree that some of the reasons people hate Kenny are pretty absurd. However, Kenny hasn't ruined the game for me, and I definitely think that the complaint that he's detracted from the story this season is completely valid.
Honestly, I don't even have the energy to be irritated by the sheer absurdity of some of your guys' complaints about Kenny being brought bac… morek, how his character sucks, how he's an asshole and has no place in season 2 etc. Usually now is when I launch into a massive Kenny defense essay, but I don't even think it's necessary to after reading the comments. You all can keep this thread as a venting place for your Kenny hate, its not going to change anything. It seems to me that you've let your hatred for Kenny ruin the game(or season 2) for you. That must suck.
I suppose it all depends on how you look at it. I personally thought that if they didn't bring Kenny back for season 2, they would be passing up on a good opportunity. The ambiguous way in which he "dies" in season 1 deliberately leaves it open so TTG can bring him back. I still am not sure how/why so many people were shocked to see Kenny come back, when they didn't even have him "die" on screen. I knew immediately they were setting up for his return. I would like to know more details as to how he escaped, but it's not really a huge issue for me.Of course without the details it makes his survival look like a cop out, but I've seen less believable survivals with even worse circumstances in TWD(ex;Tyreese making it out alive after being trapped in a gym with walkers for 3 days, and only having an axe/hatchet to protect himself.) As for Kenny not elaborating beyond "I got lucky, real lucky" on how he made it out alive; I see it as Kenny just not wanting to relive the experience, or tell Clem what he had to do in order to survive. If they tell us how he made it, that'd be great, but I also don't mind it being open to interpretation among the fans. I'd argue that if Kenny didn't come back, season 2 would be much worse off imo.
I only say it seems like it's ruining the game for you(not you specifically, but the people who loathe Kenny's presence so much) is due to how angry you come across every time Kenny shows up on screen. And since he's pretty much a main character, I'd think it's hard to enjoy the game when you hate said main character to such a degree. I also don't see how Kenny being in season 2 took away from the cabin group's development. Them not being developed enough isn't Kenny's fault, it's TTG's. They write the episodes after all. I also would argue that the shortened length of the episodes has also contributed to the cabin group not being developed enough, another component that isn't at the fault of Kenny's presence.
I agree that some of the reasons people hate Kenny are pretty absurd. However, Kenny hasn't ruined the game for me, and I definitely think that the complaint that he's detracted from the story this season is completely valid.
I always liked Kenny (to a degree), but what I didn't like was TTG's obvious love for Kenny, giving him al the heroic duties, giving him all the screen time, and it all just feels forced, when in season 1 it felt natural for Kenny to be there. I know it isn't Kenny's fault, but when you play the game it just feels that way, and I don't like the feeling. I just hate how Telltale has pushed every other interesting character into the background after his return.
Honestly, I don't even have the energy to be irritated by the sheer absurdity of some of your guys' complaints about Kenny being brought bac… morek, how his character sucks, how he's an asshole and has no place in season 2 etc. Usually now is when I launch into a massive Kenny defense essay, but I don't even think it's necessary to after reading the comments. You all can keep this thread as a venting place for your Kenny hate, its not going to change anything. It seems to me that you've let your hatred for Kenny ruin the game(or season 2) for you. That must suck.
I think Telltale should've really just stuck with their original plan of letting Kenny die in the alley. The only thing he added to Season Two is answering the question of "did he die in Episode 5?" If he'd died in Season One, we'd be done with him by now. He would've had a satisfying conclusion to his story, finding redemption by saving Ben/Christa and making up with Lee and all that. Bringing him back and writing him to be the same myopic, bullheaded man was a step back for his character.
And what else has he added besides answering that one loose end from Season One? Fanservice for the Kenny fans, I guess? A forced relationship with Clem? A recycled character arc? Bleh, I'm just so bored of his character by now. They ended his development perfectly in No Time Left, and I feel like Telltale didn't have any concrete plans for him or reason to bring him back except contrived fanservice.
And I don't blame Kenny at all for the poor development of other characters. You're absolutely right that it's the writers' fault, but it's also understandable why some people direct their resentment towards Kenny, because it's so obvious that Telltale turns to him as their go to character to milk feels out of Season One players so they don't have to put in the effort of developing other characters. If Kenny hadn't returned in Season Two, Telltale wouldn't have been able to take the lazy way out like that.
I suppose it all depends on how you look at it. I personally thought that if they didn't bring Kenny back for season 2, they would be passin… moreg up on a good opportunity. The ambiguous way in which he "dies" in season 1 deliberately leaves it open so TTG can bring him back. I still am not sure how/why so many people were shocked to see Kenny come back, when they didn't even have him "die" on screen. I knew immediately they were setting up for his return. I would like to know more details as to how he escaped, but it's not really a huge issue for me.Of course without the details it makes his survival look like a cop out, but I've seen less believable survivals with even worse circumstances in TWD(ex;Tyreese making it out alive after being trapped in a gym with walkers for 3 days, and only having an axe/hatchet to protect himself.) As for Kenny not elaborating beyond "I got lucky, real lucky" on how he made it out alive; I see it as Kenny just not… [view original content]
I'm growing weary of having to say this, but I know that many of you are not aware of what exactly a heart attack is, nor the necessary treatment it requires.
I believe that several of you are confusing the effects CPR has on a person who is drowning compared to the effects it has on a person having a heart attack. CPR will revive a drowning victim because they aren't breathing due to water in their lungs/blocking their airway.Their heart has stopped due to the blocked airway, but once unblocked they are usually in the clear, which is why CPR works just fine for a drowning victim.( It should be noted that drowning victims still are required to go to a hospital even after they've been revived, because there may still be water in their lungs. That's off topic though) But it is very different in terms to a heart attack victim.
See, the heart muscle requires a constant supply of oxygen-rich blood to nourish it. The coronary arteries provide the heart with this critical blood supply. It is never confirmed what condition Larry has, but I'm guessing it's coronary heart disease. If you have coronary artery disease, those arteries become narrow and blood cannot flow as well as they should. Fatty matter, calcium, proteins, and inflammatory cells build up within the arteries to form plaques.When the plaque is hard, the outer shell cracks, platelets come to the area, and blood clots form around the plaque. If a blood clot totally blocks the artery, the heart muscle becomes "starved" for oxygen. Within a short time, death of heart muscle cells occurs, causing permanent damage. This is what happens when a heart attack occurs.
Now, CPR is not sufficient alone to revive someone who is having a heart attack, it is only meant to keep their heart pumping blood until the paramedics arrive with the proper equipment/training. CPR doesn't restart their heart. In the event that the heart has stopped(such as Larry's did) an AED(automated external defibrillator) is required to restart it. In addition, the paramedics' also provide an IV filled with vital nutrients and medicine needed for a heart attack victim's recovery. A recovery which would take 8 weeks mind you, time that you most definitely do not have in the apocalypse. So in the unlikely event that Larry would survive, he would be an even bigger liability in his severely weakened condition. Even if it was indeed a breath Larry was taking, it is extremely unlikely that it would stabilize him, what would most likely happen is another heart attack occurrence. Not to mention, that the medication that Larry needed to prevent a heart attack was not on hand, further sealing his fate. Larry was going to turn, there was no changing that. Kenny didn't kill him, he may have put him down in a violent way, but it was most definitely not murder. For Larry was not revivable.
Except, Larry wasn't turning. We know this.
If you push on his chest enough while helping Lilly, larry takes a breath. This breath can't … morehave been him reanimating, as pushing on someone's chest does not speed up reanimation, and it only happens if you manage to push four times within the same time limit.
Larry was revivable, Kenny did kill him.
Now, Larry might well have died shortly after being revived. But he would have said good bye to Lilly, and she needed see such a brutal death.
Please do not state 'Larry is about to turn' as a fact, as it is incorrect. We know he wasn't.
That doesn't stop Kenny's actions being understandable. But it does make them needless.
Yeah, Larry was done for. If anything, Kenny's real mistake in that scenario wasn't killing Larry, it was acting like an unnecessarily huge douche to Lilly and Lee.
I'm growing weary of having to say this, but I know that many of you are not aware of what exactly a heart attack is, nor the necessary trea… moretment it requires.
I believe that several of you are confusing the effects CPR has on a person who is drowning compared to the effects it has on a person having a heart attack. CPR will revive a drowning victim because they aren't breathing due to water in their lungs/blocking their airway.Their heart has stopped due to the blocked airway, but once unblocked they are usually in the clear, which is why CPR works just fine for a drowning victim.( It should be noted that drowning victims still are required to go to a hospital even after they've been revived, because there may still be water in their lungs. That's off topic though) But it is very different in terms to a heart attack victim.
See, the heart muscle requires a constant supply of oxygen-rich blood to nourish it. The coronary arteries provide… [view original content]
This is where our thoughts differ. I don't believe there was an original plan to having Kenny's arc end in the alley way. As I said before, I believe they deliberately had him die off screen/left his death ambiguous so they could bring him back in season 2. For me it wouldn't have been satisfying, if a character is going to die, especially one as important as Kenny, I think it's pertinent that they do so on screen. I would have been severely disappointed if that was how he went, especially since it wasn't him finding redemption in my eyes. It was him taking a way out from his pain, a way that benefited others, so it didn't look like he was giving up. But he was, and that's just not Kenny's character to me. It wouldn't be ending his arc perfectly at all imo.
You can see it as fan service I guess. I see it as them making the story line more interesting. Clem has come across a new group, one with completely different dynamic than her previous one. Excluding determinant moments, Clem is wary of being in another group, especially when her other one was disbanded in such a traumatic way, that was indirectly her fault. She then comes across a member from her old group, who she had been sure was dead. Kenny coming back contributed to Clem's struggle in having to decide which group she should stay with, the new one with fairly nice people who haven't necessarily had to survive off the grid for very long(They were at Carver's), or the man who was her caretaker's best friend and has plenty of experience surviving against the walkers and the evil that's emerged in people. Though this man is also different that he was 2 years ago, he has experienced severe loss, and Clem is not sure how stable he is. The clashing of the old and the new also raises the question if Clem is better off alone like Molly or Jane. Kenny coming back has been what's made the conflict between the characters so interesting. I don't see how Clem's relationship with Kenny is forced, if any relationship is forced it's her sudden attachment to the cabin group who she has only known for a few days.
Again, that's TTG's fault. They choose to focus on Kenny more, but that doesn't mean they can't also develop the other characters. It is laziness, but even if Kenny weren't there, I'm not sure how great season 2 would be without him there to create conflict, and act as a foil to Clem's character. As I said previously, if they didn't bring him back, they'd be passing up a good opportunity.
I think Telltale should've really just stuck with their original plan of letting Kenny die in the alley. The only thing he added to Season T… morewo is answering the question of "did he die in Episode 5?" If he'd died in Season One, we'd be done with him by now. He would've had a satisfying conclusion to his story, finding redemption by saving Ben/Christa and making up with Lee and all that. Bringing him back and writing him to be the same myopic, bullheaded man was a step back for his character.
And what else has he added besides answering that one loose end from Season One? Fanservice for the Kenny fans, I guess? A forced relationship with Clem? A recycled character arc? Bleh, I'm just so bored of his character by now. They ended his development perfectly in No Time Left, and I feel like Telltale didn't have any concrete plans for him or reason to bring him back except contrived fanservice.
And I don't blame Kenny at all for the poor develo… [view original content]
Can't really argue with you there. Kenny should have been more sensitive to the subject of Larry with Lilly, and understood why she was so upset about it, especially since he was the one to take Larry out in such a brutal manner. In a terrible way, Kenny losing Katjaa and Duck later is sort of like karma.
Yeah, Larry was done for. If anything, Kenny's real mistake in that scenario wasn't killing Larry, it was acting like an unnecessarily huge douche to Lilly and Lee.
This is where our thoughts differ. I don't believe there was an original plan to having Kenny's arc end in the alley way. As I said before, I believe they deliberately had him die off screen/left his death ambiguous so they could bring him back in season 2. For me it wouldn't have been satisfying, if a character is going to die, especially one as important as Kenny, I think it's pertinent that they do so on screen. I would have been severely disappointed if that was how he went, especially since it wasn't him finding redemption in my eyes. It was him taking a way out from his pain, a way that benefited others, so it didn't look like he was giving up. But he was, and that's just not Kenny's character to me. It wouldn't be ending his arc perfectly at all imo.
I don't remember where, but Gavin actually confirmed that TT originally planned to have Kenny unambiguously die in the alley. Make of that what you will. And I can see where you’re coming from, seeing as Kenny had no good reason to stay with Ben besides trying to get a “hero’s death”, but I’d say that he genuinely and selflessly redeemed himself when saving Christa. And anyways, in either scenario, Kenny still receives some kind of closure. He can admit that he was wrong for not considering how other people have suffered like him if you saved Ben, which was a pretty major development for Kenny.
You can see it as fan service I guess. I see it as them making the story line more interesting. Clem has come across a new group, one with completely different dynamic than her previous one. Excluding determinant moments, Clem is wary of being in another group, especially when her other one was disbanded in such a traumatic way, that was indirectly her fault. She then comes across a member from her old group, who she had been sure was dead. Kenny coming back contributed to Clem's struggle in having to decide which group she should stay with, the new one with fairly nice people who haven't necessarily had to survive off the grid for very long(They were at Carver's), or the man who was her caretaker's best friend and has plenty of experience surviving against the walkers and the evil that's emerged in people. Though this man is also different that he was 2 years ago, he has experienced severe loss, and Clem is not sure how stable he is. The clashing of the old and the new also raises the question if Clem is better off alone like Molly or Jane. Kenny coming back has been what's made the conflict between the character so interesting. I don't see how Clem's relationship with Kenny is forced, if any relationship is forced it's her sudden attachment to the cabin group who she has only known for a few days.
The thing is, there were plenty of ways to make the storyline interesting without having to resurrect someone with an already completed arc. Christa, Omid, Lilly and Molly all had much more potential that Kenny had they returned instead. They didn’t need to repeat Kenny’s arc of “nice family man loses loved one, redeems himself later”.
And while the question of “is Kenny different, can Clem trust him, is he stable?” is interesting and all, it was implemented terribly. His return took all the focus away from the cabin group, making it incredibly easy for players to just side with Kenny because they already know him. Just look at how many people defend Kenny and insist that he isn’t losing it. If TT wanted fans to question his stability, it didn’t work, because most fans either deny it or outright don’t care if he’s losing it. You could argue his outburst after Sarita's death showcased his instability, but look at how everyone defended Kenny in that scene. No one cared that he ranted at Clem, it didn't make them any less loyal to him. He bounced back immediately when he needed to birth the baby, there was no question that his fans could always rely on him.
And let’s not even get into how they handled Sarita.
You can interpret Clem’s relationship with Kenny as forced because it is entirely built on player perception of Kenny back in Season One. There was absolutely nothing that indicated Clem had any sort of attachment for Kenny in Season One (besides that picture she drew, I guess?), which is why all this hugging and bonding seems so jarring for some players.
Again, that's TTG's fault. They choose to focus on Kenny more, but that doesn't mean they can't also develop the other characters. It is laziness, but even if Kenny weren't there, I;m not sure how great season 2 would be without him there to create conflict, and act as a foil to Clem's character. As I said previously, if they didn't bring him back, they'd be passing up a good opportunity.
And yes, I think we can agree on this point. It’s TT’s fault that they chose to focus on Kenny. The root of the problem is how the writers chose to handle Kenny's return, with favouritism and fanservice in mind instead of actually good writing. Someone else on the forum mentioned this, but Nick could've basically replaced Kenny's role this season. The reckless but well-meaning hothead who butts heads with other people and creates conflict and acts as a foil to the more rational and capable Clem. Hell, they even could've replaced the whole Kenny/Luke dilemma with Nick/Luke and it would've been just as interesting. Actually, it would've been more interesting. A conflict between two life long friends and all that, rather than two random strangers.
The most disappointing thing is that TT could’ve made Kenny’s return work. You’re right that they had an opportunity with his character in Season Two, but I honestly think they blew it.
It would’ve been so much more interesting if TT didn’t just assume everyone loved Kenny, and included scenes where Clem could, say, call Kenny out for determinately treating Lee like shit. They could’ve put more emphasis on his instability and made it clear that it would directly put Clem at risk so players would be forced to question whether sticking with him would be good for Clem. Would Clem forgive Kenny for his mistakes? Would Clem be loyal to a man who might not be fit to protect her?
Instead, we got forced Kenny feels and hugs. We were force-fed recycled “my wife died” angst. We were told that "Kenny is so strong, no matter how unstable he gets we can always depend on him". We got a character that already co-starred in 5 episodes and didn’t need more screentime.
This is where our thoughts differ. I don't believe there was an original plan to having Kenny's arc end in the alley way. As I said before, … moreI believe they deliberately had him die off screen/left his death ambiguous so they could bring him back in season 2. For me it wouldn't have been satisfying, if a character is going to die, especially one as important as Kenny, I think it's pertinent that they do so on screen. I would have been severely disappointed if that was how he went, especially since it wasn't him finding redemption in my eyes. It was him taking a way out from his pain, a way that benefited others, so it didn't look like he was giving up. But he was, and that's just not Kenny's character to me. It wouldn't be ending his arc perfectly at all imo.
You can see it as fan service I guess. I see it as them making the story line more interesting. Clem has come across a new group, one with completely different dynamic than her previous… [view original content]
Kenny sacrificing himself can be seen as him getting closure, and redeeming himself for past mistakes. I suppose where I saw it differently is that Kenny stresses throughout the season that even though things get bad, really bad, you still have to keep going. He keeps going, after all the shit that's happened, because he's a survivor. Kenny is stubborn as hell, and after losing Katjaa and Duck not too long ago, I felt it was out of character for him to sacrifice himself for selfless reasons, as a way of redemption. I know that was the way it was portrayed to be seen, but I took from it that he was having a serious moment of weakness and was ready to give up. The fact that he wasn't able to succumb to his pain and came back for season 2 was especially in character to me. Though sacrificing himself for others is noble, I can't see Kenny doing that as early as season 1. But now, after he spent 2 years trying to rebuild himself into the same person he was in season 1, only to have it all taken away again almost identically, I can definitely see him sacrificing himself for Clem and the baby(if the baby survives).
I won't deny that I think TTG has a serious fetish with introducing characters who can contribute a lot to the storyline, and then kill off said characters shortly after their introduction. I would have loved to see Omid, Molly, Christa, even the 400 Days characters(Nate and Vince would have been a great edition as prominent antagonists or anti heroes) have more influence on season 2. I won't deny that TTG utilizes and relies on Kenny too much, but I don't take that out on the character. I would have been pretty interesting to see Nick and Luke butt heads. But I'm not sure if that would happen, or be in character with the way they portrayed Nick as extremely loyal to Luke, and how much he admired/was envious Luke for being able to just brush off tragedies and move on. Nick was hot headed, but in a very different way than Kenny. I think it was his depression which aggravated his emotional outbursts, for it seems like Nick was a much more agreeable and kindhearted person(a follower tbh) before he lost his mother.
I agree, there are several plot holes, or potential storylines that have been ignored. But for the most part I'm pleased with how Kenny's character is portrayed, not necessarily the objectives/conflicts he's been given in season 2. I agree that his return could have been implemented far better, but I'm not to displeased with what we've been given. Because I like Kenny so much, I can't say I understand where you're coming from in terms to this situation, but I have been in your place with other video games, so I have an idea how you must feel. Overall, I haven't been as satisfied with season 2 as I was with season 1, and I wish that they handled the characters differently. All we can do is hope that season 3 will have different writers, so there will be a new insight on all the characters and a fresh take on potential conflicts they come in contact with.
This is where our thoughts differ. I don't believe there was an original plan to having Kenny's arc end in the alley way. As I said before, … moreI believe they deliberately had him die off screen/left his death ambiguous so they could bring him back in season 2. For me it wouldn't have been satisfying, if a character is going to die, especially one as important as Kenny, I think it's pertinent that they do so on screen. I would have been severely disappointed if that was how he went, especially since it wasn't him finding redemption in my eyes. It was him taking a way out from his pain, a way that benefited others, so it didn't look like he was giving up. But he was, and that's just not Kenny's character to me. It wouldn't be ending his arc perfectly at all imo.
I don't remember where, but Gavin actually confirmed that TT originally planned to have Kenny unambiguously die in the alley. Make of that what you will. And I can see where you’re… [view original content]
So… you’re staying up late for Episode 5, too huh? :P
Anyways, I’d argue that his “sacrifices” were in character. When he saved Christa, it was pretty clear he was determined to get out of the building and meet up with the others later. With Ben, he attempted to fight back against the walkers, which showed he hadn’t completely given himself up to death. And I understand that the idea of Kenny succumbing to his pain and giving up might not be the most satisfying conclusion for him, but we all know by now that TWD rarely give their characters the most satisfying deaths.
And while I dislike Kenny, I don’t take out my resentment towards the writers’ overuse of Kenny on the character himself either. The thing is, Nick was only portrayed as Luke’s cheerleader in Episode 3 because of lazy writing. We saw in Episode 1 and 2 that he can completely disagree with Luke on multiple occasions (what to do with Clem, whether or not to tell Walter about Matthew). A Nick/Luke conflict would’ve been totally viable if TT hadn’t been obsessed with pushing the rather contrived Kenny/Luke dilemma.
And yes, I understand why people who like Kenny actually enjoy his return, and I’m glad you can understand why others, even some people who like Kenny, are not so pleased that he’s back. I’m sure you want Kenny to survive Season Two and all, but I’ve got my fingers crossed that he won’t return next season. You Kenny fans have gotten your fill of fanservice, it’s the Christa/Lilly/Molly fans’ turn now!
And if Kenny does have to return again, the writers better not make the same mistakes with his character again.
Kenny sacrificing himself can be seen as him getting closure, and redeeming himself for past mistakes. I suppose where I saw it differently … moreis that Kenny stresses throughout the season that even though things get bad, really bad, you still have to keep going. He keeps going, after all the shit that's happened, because he's a survivor. Kenny is stubborn as hell, and after losing Katjaa and Duck not too long ago, I felt it was out of character for him to sacrifice himself for selfless reasons, as a way of redemption. I know that was the way it was portrayed to be seen, but I took from it that he was having a serious moment of weakness and was ready to give up. The fact that he wasn't able to succumb to his pain and came back for season 2 was especially in character to me. Though sacrificing himself for others is noble, I can't see Kenny doing that as early as season 1. But now, after he spent 2 years trying to rebuild himself into the same per… [view original content]
..Yes. It's probably not a good idea because I have class tomorrow, but it's episode 5. I can't resist lol.
I respectfully disagree. As much as a strong person I think Kenny is, I don't think he would jump into that hole unless he had a death wish. He knew that if he did go down there to help Christa get out, that nobody would be able to help him in return. Same with when he saves Ben, he purposefully locks Lee out so nobody can come help him, again he was ready to die. I think Kenny has heroic notions, but I think he was in such a dark place then that he would've done anything to be with his family, as long as it didn't look like he was checking out like Katjaa did. I'm quite glad that they left it open, so they could bring him back and if he does in fact die in episode 5, hopefully it will be a more fulfilling death. You're right there, TTG doesn't really handle deaths well, save for maybe Lee's.
I'm not just talking about Nick in episode 3, I think his loyalty to Luke showed through in episode 1-2 as well. For instance, if you choose to save Nick instead of Uncle Pete, he tells Clem how he had to put down his mother, and how he just hasn't been the same since. He goes on to say how Luke had hatched up some half baked idea to make them money before the apocalypse, and Nick, looking up to Luke and trusting him went along with it. And even though they lost all their money, you can tell he looks back at it with fondness, not resentment. He then says how he's not like Luke, who is able to shoulder/handle the tragedies they've dealt with since the beginning of the apocalypse very well, he expresses that he wishes he could be more like Luke. Again he doesn't seem resentful of Luke, only envious of his resistance to depression. After he shoots Mathew on the bridge, he doesn't worry about Luke telling Carlos that he isn't fit to stay with the group, he seems more annoyed that Carlos is going to tell Luke he's "a danger to the group". And the off hand way in which he says it suggests this isn't the first time that Carlos approached Luke about Nick, and Nick doesn't seem the least bit worried about Luke agreeing, or not agreeing with Carlos. He trusts him immensely, perhaps too much. They do disagree at times, but I don't think it's enough to have Nick turn on Luke and fight him for the leadership role. Nick's character is just too submissive to take on such a task imo.
I won't lie, I do hope Kenny survives. But if he has to go, I can only hope they send him off in the most badass way possible haha. I hope to see more of Molly too, I especially really want to see some more of the 400 Days characters!
I share your worries there, I'm still finding it hard to believe that the same people who brought us season 1 worked on season 2. I hope season 3 turns out better, and as much as I like him, I hope they don't put as much focus on Kenny in season 3, so the hate won't be as warranted.
So… you’re staying up late for Episode 5, too huh? :P
Anyways, I’d argue that his “sacrifices” were in character. When he saved Christa, … moreit was pretty clear he was determined to get out of the building and meet up with the others later. With Ben, he attempted to fight back against the walkers, which showed he hadn’t completely given himself up to death. And I understand that the idea of Kenny succumbing to his pain and giving up might not be the most satisfying conclusion for him, but we all know by now that TWD rarely give their characters the most satisfying deaths.
And while I dislike Kenny, I don’t take out my resentment towards the writers’ overuse of Kenny on the character himself either. The thing is, Nick was only portrayed as Luke’s cheerleader in Episode 3 because of lazy writing. We saw in Episode 1 and 2 that he can completely disagree with Luke on multiple occasions (what to do with Clem, whether or not to tell Walter about… [view original content]
True, but that's based off Lee's relationship with Kenny(if you help him he helps you, if you don't help him he won't risk his life for you). He is still the reason Lee even manages to meet up with the group, since he gives Lee a ride, and without the group Lee and Clementine probably would have died much sooner.
Also, I think people are pretty harsh on him for choosing not to save Clementine. Because in all fairness, he had no reason to really think Lee couldn't handle a few sick old people, especially since he handled them alone before. That doesn't really make up for it, but it's not like he tried to sentence Clementine to death.
Good points, but it's worth noting that in the majority of people's playthroughs, Kenny leaves Lee to die in episode 3 so
Also Kenny nev… moreer really shows much concern for anyone apart from his family, in season 1 at least.
Like, his decision as to whether he'll rescue clem is not based on liking her, but rather based on whether he likes Lee, as he refuses to save her if he doesn't like you. If he truly cared about her then he would have come regardless.
I always liked Kenny (to a degree), but what I didn't like was TTG's obvious love for Kenny, giving him al the heroic duties, giving him all… more the screen time, and it all just feels forced, when in season 1 it felt natural for Kenny to be there. I know it isn't Kenny's fault, but when you play the game it just feels that way, and I don't like the feeling. I just hate how Telltale has pushed every other interesting character into the background after his return.
True, but that's based off Lee's relationship with Kenny(if you help him he helps you, if you don't help him he won't risk his life for you)… more. He is still the reason Lee even manages to meet up with the group, since he gives Lee a ride, and without the group Lee and Clementine probably would have died much sooner.
Also, I think people are pretty harsh on him for choosing not to save Clementine. Because in all fairness, he had no reason to really think Lee couldn't handle a few sick old people, especially since he handled them alone before. That doesn't really make up for it, but it's not like he tried to sentence Clementine to death.
Comments
Funny how that video doesn't show him leaving Lee to die under a door or refusing to save clem because he doesn't like Lee.
'Completely justifies'
Yeah, that's the problem.
Why can't we just admit Kenny has faults?
You can call Lilly a bitch in epsiode 1. She does not shoot you.
She is insulted in episode 3. She shoots her.
Something changed.
Surely you acknowledge that her father being murdered, everyone hating her and trying to lease her to die must have had some effect on her mental stability?
Except, Larry wasn't turning. We know this.
If you push on his chest enough while helping Lilly, larry takes a breath. This breath can't have been him reanimating, as pushing on someone's chest does not speed up reanimation, and it only happens if you manage to push four times within the same time limit.
Larry was revivable, Kenny did kill him.
Now, Larry might well have died shortly after being revived. But he would have said good bye to Lilly, and she needed see such a brutal death.
Please do not state 'Larry is about to turn' as a fact, as it is incorrect. We know he wasn't.
That doesn't stop Kenny's actions being understandable. But it does make them needless.
Well, since it's a tribute about their (determinant) friendship, I really don't see why the video should have shown those scenes you mentioned.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I personally love Kenny, but I understand why some people don't like or even hate him. Thank god I'm not that emotionally vulnerable so I doesn't bother me that he said some bad things, after all I did too with Lee and Clem, said things that I don't mean at the given moment, so okay about him losing him shit sometimes
The other more important things is that character like Kenny is necessary for the game and strongly disagree with people saying otherwise, it would be boring if we had only typical good guys and villains, it wouldn't be as good game as it is if all characters would be perfect and making right decisions all the time, that's why there is Kenny, Bonny or Lilly...
And that's why its the best game ever to me. peace
Kenny's been through sh!t too, and he hasn't directly murdered someone who was not a danger to him or his group.
Until that happens, no matter Lily's state of mind, Kenny will be a better person.
I dont think getting mad at Kenny for being a dick to you means you're emotionally vulnerable. I think its perfectly natural. I just wish Clementine had told him, "You know what? I tried to save your girlfriend's life so get off my back!" But, yeah, she's just a little kid. Its not like when Lee tells Kenny off after he refuses to help him look for Clementine. Oh that felt so good to do, lol.
oh I did get mad at that moment, but it didn't changed much my overall relationship with him
Unfortunately, it changed mine for the worse lol.
Unfortunately... I still think he will be the first to give his life for Clem's
Hmmm, we shall see.
Never have I liked so many posts in one thread. xD
For the record I was neutral to Kenny in season 1. I mean he annoyed me to no end but for the most part I understood his actions even if I didn't always agree with them. The most frustrating thing about him is that he's determined to be the leader. His way is the right way and to hell with what anyone else thinks. When I heard Kenny's fate was going to be explored, it was obvious he'd return but how? He died. On seeing him again, My instinct made Clem hug him just because but I really expected a proper explanation on how he got out alive. "Real lucky" was such a cop out. Ever since we've been reunited with Kenny it's clear he's mentally unstable and becoming more and more broken everyday. He's just got so much worse and his season 1 story is just being repeated all over again. YAWN. Kenny should have stayed dead in episode 1 and the returnee should have been Molly or Christa. I also don't like the fact he's almost had DOUBLE the amount of episodes Lee had.
Good points, but it's worth noting that in the majority of people's playthroughs, Kenny leaves Lee to die in episode 3 so
Also Kenny never really shows much concern for anyone apart from his family, in season 1 at least.
Like, his decision as to whether he'll rescue clem is not based on liking her, but rather based on whether he likes Lee, as he refuses to save her if he doesn't like you. If he truly cared about her then he would have come regardless.
He posted the video as evidence as to why Kenny ISN'T a foe, not why in some playthroughs he might not be.
Not necessarily, because the way Lilly lost a loved one was arguably much worse and more traumatizing than the way Kenny lost a loved one. With Larry, Lilly was convinced she could save him, and he was brutally and abruptly killed by people in her group, people she trusted, so the way she became incredibly paranoid was completely understandable.
Meanwhile, Duck and Katjaa were not killed by anyone, especially not by someone Kenny trusted, which is why he didn't become a paranoid wreck.
Honestly, I don't even have the energy to be irritated by the sheer absurdity of some of your guys' complaints about Kenny being brought back, how his character sucks, how he's an asshole and has no place in season 2 etc. Usually now is when I launch into a massive Kenny defense essay, but I don't even think it's necessary to after reading the comments. You all can keep this thread as a venting place for your Kenny hate, its not going to change anything. It seems to me that you've let your hatred for Kenny ruin the game(or season 2) for you. That must suck.
I agree that some of the reasons people hate Kenny are pretty absurd. However, Kenny hasn't ruined the game for me, and I definitely think that the complaint that he's detracted from the story this season is completely valid.
I suppose it all depends on how you look at it. I personally thought that if they didn't bring Kenny back for season 2, they would be passing up on a good opportunity. The ambiguous way in which he "dies" in season 1 deliberately leaves it open so TTG can bring him back. I still am not sure how/why so many people were shocked to see Kenny come back, when they didn't even have him "die" on screen. I knew immediately they were setting up for his return. I would like to know more details as to how he escaped, but it's not really a huge issue for me.Of course without the details it makes his survival look like a cop out, but I've seen less believable survivals with even worse circumstances in TWD(ex;Tyreese making it out alive after being trapped in a gym with walkers for 3 days, and only having an axe/hatchet to protect himself.) As for Kenny not elaborating beyond "I got lucky, real lucky" on how he made it out alive; I see it as Kenny just not wanting to relive the experience, or tell Clem what he had to do in order to survive. If they tell us how he made it, that'd be great, but I also don't mind it being open to interpretation among the fans. I'd argue that if Kenny didn't come back, season 2 would be much worse off imo.
I only say it seems like it's ruining the game for you(not you specifically, but the people who loathe Kenny's presence so much) is due to how angry you come across every time Kenny shows up on screen. And since he's pretty much a main character, I'd think it's hard to enjoy the game when you hate said main character to such a degree. I also don't see how Kenny being in season 2 took away from the cabin group's development. Them not being developed enough isn't Kenny's fault, it's TTG's. They write the episodes after all. I also would argue that the shortened length of the episodes has also contributed to the cabin group not being developed enough, another component that isn't at the fault of Kenny's presence.
I always liked Kenny (to a degree), but what I didn't like was TTG's obvious love for Kenny, giving him al the heroic duties, giving him all the screen time, and it all just feels forced, when in season 1 it felt natural for Kenny to be there. I know it isn't Kenny's fault, but when you play the game it just feels that way, and I don't like the feeling. I just hate how Telltale has pushed every other interesting character into the background after his return.
I think Telltale should've really just stuck with their original plan of letting Kenny die in the alley. The only thing he added to Season Two is answering the question of "did he die in Episode 5?" If he'd died in Season One, we'd be done with him by now. He would've had a satisfying conclusion to his story, finding redemption by saving Ben/Christa and making up with Lee and all that. Bringing him back and writing him to be the same myopic, bullheaded man was a step back for his character.
And what else has he added besides answering that one loose end from Season One? Fanservice for the Kenny fans, I guess? A forced relationship with Clem? A recycled character arc? Bleh, I'm just so bored of his character by now. They ended his development perfectly in No Time Left, and I feel like Telltale didn't have any concrete plans for him or reason to bring him back except contrived fanservice.
And I don't blame Kenny at all for the poor development of other characters. You're absolutely right that it's the writers' fault, but it's also understandable why some people direct their resentment towards Kenny, because it's so obvious that Telltale turns to him as their go to character to milk feels out of Season One players so they don't have to put in the effort of developing other characters. If Kenny hadn't returned in Season Two, Telltale wouldn't have been able to take the lazy way out like that.
I'm growing weary of having to say this, but I know that many of you are not aware of what exactly a heart attack is, nor the necessary treatment it requires.
I believe that several of you are confusing the effects CPR has on a person who is drowning compared to the effects it has on a person having a heart attack. CPR will revive a drowning victim because they aren't breathing due to water in their lungs/blocking their airway.Their heart has stopped due to the blocked airway, but once unblocked they are usually in the clear, which is why CPR works just fine for a drowning victim.( It should be noted that drowning victims still are required to go to a hospital even after they've been revived, because there may still be water in their lungs. That's off topic though) But it is very different in terms to a heart attack victim.
See, the heart muscle requires a constant supply of oxygen-rich blood to nourish it. The coronary arteries provide the heart with this critical blood supply. It is never confirmed what condition Larry has, but I'm guessing it's coronary heart disease. If you have coronary artery disease, those arteries become narrow and blood cannot flow as well as they should. Fatty matter, calcium, proteins, and inflammatory cells build up within the arteries to form plaques.When the plaque is hard, the outer shell cracks, platelets come to the area, and blood clots form around the plaque. If a blood clot totally blocks the artery, the heart muscle becomes "starved" for oxygen. Within a short time, death of heart muscle cells occurs, causing permanent damage. This is what happens when a heart attack occurs.
Now, CPR is not sufficient alone to revive someone who is having a heart attack, it is only meant to keep their heart pumping blood until the paramedics arrive with the proper equipment/training. CPR doesn't restart their heart. In the event that the heart has stopped(such as Larry's did) an AED(automated external defibrillator) is required to restart it. In addition, the paramedics' also provide an IV filled with vital nutrients and medicine needed for a heart attack victim's recovery. A recovery which would take 8 weeks mind you, time that you most definitely do not have in the apocalypse. So in the unlikely event that Larry would survive, he would be an even bigger liability in his severely weakened condition. Even if it was indeed a breath Larry was taking, it is extremely unlikely that it would stabilize him, what would most likely happen is another heart attack occurrence. Not to mention, that the medication that Larry needed to prevent a heart attack was not on hand, further sealing his fate. Larry was going to turn, there was no changing that. Kenny didn't kill him, he may have put him down in a violent way, but it was most definitely not murder. For Larry was not revivable.
Yeah, Larry was done for. If anything, Kenny's real mistake in that scenario wasn't killing Larry, it was acting like an unnecessarily huge douche to Lilly and Lee.
This is where our thoughts differ. I don't believe there was an original plan to having Kenny's arc end in the alley way. As I said before, I believe they deliberately had him die off screen/left his death ambiguous so they could bring him back in season 2. For me it wouldn't have been satisfying, if a character is going to die, especially one as important as Kenny, I think it's pertinent that they do so on screen. I would have been severely disappointed if that was how he went, especially since it wasn't him finding redemption in my eyes. It was him taking a way out from his pain, a way that benefited others, so it didn't look like he was giving up. But he was, and that's just not Kenny's character to me. It wouldn't be ending his arc perfectly at all imo.
You can see it as fan service I guess. I see it as them making the story line more interesting. Clem has come across a new group, one with completely different dynamic than her previous one. Excluding determinant moments, Clem is wary of being in another group, especially when her other one was disbanded in such a traumatic way, that was indirectly her fault. She then comes across a member from her old group, who she had been sure was dead. Kenny coming back contributed to Clem's struggle in having to decide which group she should stay with, the new one with fairly nice people who haven't necessarily had to survive off the grid for very long(They were at Carver's), or the man who was her caretaker's best friend and has plenty of experience surviving against the walkers and the evil that's emerged in people. Though this man is also different that he was 2 years ago, he has experienced severe loss, and Clem is not sure how stable he is. The clashing of the old and the new also raises the question if Clem is better off alone like Molly or Jane. Kenny coming back has been what's made the conflict between the characters so interesting. I don't see how Clem's relationship with Kenny is forced, if any relationship is forced it's her sudden attachment to the cabin group who she has only known for a few days.
Again, that's TTG's fault. They choose to focus on Kenny more, but that doesn't mean they can't also develop the other characters. It is laziness, but even if Kenny weren't there, I'm not sure how great season 2 would be without him there to create conflict, and act as a foil to Clem's character. As I said previously, if they didn't bring him back, they'd be passing up a good opportunity.
Can't really argue with you there. Kenny should have been more sensitive to the subject of Larry with Lilly, and understood why she was so upset about it, especially since he was the one to take Larry out in such a brutal manner. In a terrible way, Kenny losing Katjaa and Duck later is sort of like karma.
I don't remember where, but Gavin actually confirmed that TT originally planned to have Kenny unambiguously die in the alley. Make of that what you will. And I can see where you’re coming from, seeing as Kenny had no good reason to stay with Ben besides trying to get a “hero’s death”, but I’d say that he genuinely and selflessly redeemed himself when saving Christa. And anyways, in either scenario, Kenny still receives some kind of closure. He can admit that he was wrong for not considering how other people have suffered like him if you saved Ben, which was a pretty major development for Kenny.
The thing is, there were plenty of ways to make the storyline interesting without having to resurrect someone with an already completed arc. Christa, Omid, Lilly and Molly all had much more potential that Kenny had they returned instead. They didn’t need to repeat Kenny’s arc of “nice family man loses loved one, redeems himself later”.
And while the question of “is Kenny different, can Clem trust him, is he stable?” is interesting and all, it was implemented terribly. His return took all the focus away from the cabin group, making it incredibly easy for players to just side with Kenny because they already know him. Just look at how many people defend Kenny and insist that he isn’t losing it. If TT wanted fans to question his stability, it didn’t work, because most fans either deny it or outright don’t care if he’s losing it. You could argue his outburst after Sarita's death showcased his instability, but look at how everyone defended Kenny in that scene. No one cared that he ranted at Clem, it didn't make them any less loyal to him. He bounced back immediately when he needed to birth the baby, there was no question that his fans could always rely on him.
And let’s not even get into how they handled Sarita.
You can interpret Clem’s relationship with Kenny as forced because it is entirely built on player perception of Kenny back in Season One. There was absolutely nothing that indicated Clem had any sort of attachment for Kenny in Season One (besides that picture she drew, I guess?), which is why all this hugging and bonding seems so jarring for some players.
And yes, I think we can agree on this point. It’s TT’s fault that they chose to focus on Kenny. The root of the problem is how the writers chose to handle Kenny's return, with favouritism and fanservice in mind instead of actually good writing. Someone else on the forum mentioned this, but Nick could've basically replaced Kenny's role this season. The reckless but well-meaning hothead who butts heads with other people and creates conflict and acts as a foil to the more rational and capable Clem. Hell, they even could've replaced the whole Kenny/Luke dilemma with Nick/Luke and it would've been just as interesting. Actually, it would've been more interesting. A conflict between two life long friends and all that, rather than two random strangers.
The most disappointing thing is that TT could’ve made Kenny’s return work. You’re right that they had an opportunity with his character in Season Two, but I honestly think they blew it.
It would’ve been so much more interesting if TT didn’t just assume everyone loved Kenny, and included scenes where Clem could, say, call Kenny out for determinately treating Lee like shit. They could’ve put more emphasis on his instability and made it clear that it would directly put Clem at risk so players would be forced to question whether sticking with him would be good for Clem. Would Clem forgive Kenny for his mistakes? Would Clem be loyal to a man who might not be fit to protect her?
Instead, we got forced Kenny feels and hugs. We were force-fed recycled “my wife died” angst. We were told that "Kenny is so strong, no matter how unstable he gets we can always depend on him". We got a character that already co-starred in 5 episodes and didn’t need more screentime.
Kenny sacrificing himself can be seen as him getting closure, and redeeming himself for past mistakes. I suppose where I saw it differently is that Kenny stresses throughout the season that even though things get bad, really bad, you still have to keep going. He keeps going, after all the shit that's happened, because he's a survivor. Kenny is stubborn as hell, and after losing Katjaa and Duck not too long ago, I felt it was out of character for him to sacrifice himself for selfless reasons, as a way of redemption. I know that was the way it was portrayed to be seen, but I took from it that he was having a serious moment of weakness and was ready to give up. The fact that he wasn't able to succumb to his pain and came back for season 2 was especially in character to me. Though sacrificing himself for others is noble, I can't see Kenny doing that as early as season 1. But now, after he spent 2 years trying to rebuild himself into the same person he was in season 1, only to have it all taken away again almost identically, I can definitely see him sacrificing himself for Clem and the baby(if the baby survives).
I won't deny that I think TTG has a serious fetish with introducing characters who can contribute a lot to the storyline, and then kill off said characters shortly after their introduction. I would have loved to see Omid, Molly, Christa, even the 400 Days characters(Nate and Vince would have been a great edition as prominent antagonists or anti heroes) have more influence on season 2. I won't deny that TTG utilizes and relies on Kenny too much, but I don't take that out on the character. I would have been pretty interesting to see Nick and Luke butt heads. But I'm not sure if that would happen, or be in character with the way they portrayed Nick as extremely loyal to Luke, and how much he admired/was envious Luke for being able to just brush off tragedies and move on. Nick was hot headed, but in a very different way than Kenny. I think it was his depression which aggravated his emotional outbursts, for it seems like Nick was a much more agreeable and kindhearted person(a follower tbh) before he lost his mother.
I agree, there are several plot holes, or potential storylines that have been ignored. But for the most part I'm pleased with how Kenny's character is portrayed, not necessarily the objectives/conflicts he's been given in season 2. I agree that his return could have been implemented far better, but I'm not to displeased with what we've been given. Because I like Kenny so much, I can't say I understand where you're coming from in terms to this situation, but I have been in your place with other video games, so I have an idea how you must feel. Overall, I haven't been as satisfied with season 2 as I was with season 1, and I wish that they handled the characters differently. All we can do is hope that season 3 will have different writers, so there will be a new insight on all the characters and a fresh take on potential conflicts they come in contact with.
So… you’re staying up late for Episode 5, too huh? :P
Anyways, I’d argue that his “sacrifices” were in character. When he saved Christa, it was pretty clear he was determined to get out of the building and meet up with the others later. With Ben, he attempted to fight back against the walkers, which showed he hadn’t completely given himself up to death. And I understand that the idea of Kenny succumbing to his pain and giving up might not be the most satisfying conclusion for him, but we all know by now that TWD rarely give their characters the most satisfying deaths.
And while I dislike Kenny, I don’t take out my resentment towards the writers’ overuse of Kenny on the character himself either. The thing is, Nick was only portrayed as Luke’s cheerleader in Episode 3 because of lazy writing. We saw in Episode 1 and 2 that he can completely disagree with Luke on multiple occasions (what to do with Clem, whether or not to tell Walter about Matthew). A Nick/Luke conflict would’ve been totally viable if TT hadn’t been obsessed with pushing the rather contrived Kenny/Luke dilemma.
And yes, I understand why people who like Kenny actually enjoy his return, and I’m glad you can understand why others, even some people who like Kenny, are not so pleased that he’s back. I’m sure you want Kenny to survive Season Two and all, but I’ve got my fingers crossed that he won’t return next season. You Kenny fans have gotten your fill of fanservice, it’s the Christa/Lilly/Molly fans’ turn now!
And if Kenny does have to return again, the writers better not make the same mistakes with his character again.
..Yes. It's probably not a good idea because I have class tomorrow, but it's episode 5. I can't resist lol.
I respectfully disagree. As much as a strong person I think Kenny is, I don't think he would jump into that hole unless he had a death wish. He knew that if he did go down there to help Christa get out, that nobody would be able to help him in return. Same with when he saves Ben, he purposefully locks Lee out so nobody can come help him, again he was ready to die. I think Kenny has heroic notions, but I think he was in such a dark place then that he would've done anything to be with his family, as long as it didn't look like he was checking out like Katjaa did. I'm quite glad that they left it open, so they could bring him back and if he does in fact die in episode 5, hopefully it will be a more fulfilling death. You're right there, TTG doesn't really handle deaths well, save for maybe Lee's.
I'm not just talking about Nick in episode 3, I think his loyalty to Luke showed through in episode 1-2 as well. For instance, if you choose to save Nick instead of Uncle Pete, he tells Clem how he had to put down his mother, and how he just hasn't been the same since. He goes on to say how Luke had hatched up some half baked idea to make them money before the apocalypse, and Nick, looking up to Luke and trusting him went along with it. And even though they lost all their money, you can tell he looks back at it with fondness, not resentment. He then says how he's not like Luke, who is able to shoulder/handle the tragedies they've dealt with since the beginning of the apocalypse very well, he expresses that he wishes he could be more like Luke. Again he doesn't seem resentful of Luke, only envious of his resistance to depression. After he shoots Mathew on the bridge, he doesn't worry about Luke telling Carlos that he isn't fit to stay with the group, he seems more annoyed that Carlos is going to tell Luke he's "a danger to the group". And the off hand way in which he says it suggests this isn't the first time that Carlos approached Luke about Nick, and Nick doesn't seem the least bit worried about Luke agreeing, or not agreeing with Carlos. He trusts him immensely, perhaps too much. They do disagree at times, but I don't think it's enough to have Nick turn on Luke and fight him for the leadership role. Nick's character is just too submissive to take on such a task imo.
I won't lie, I do hope Kenny survives. But if he has to go, I can only hope they send him off in the most badass way possible haha. I hope to see more of Molly too, I especially really want to see some more of the 400 Days characters!
I share your worries there, I'm still finding it hard to believe that the same people who brought us season 1 worked on season 2. I hope season 3 turns out better, and as much as I like him, I hope they don't put as much focus on Kenny in season 3, so the hate won't be as warranted.
True, but that's based off Lee's relationship with Kenny(if you help him he helps you, if you don't help him he won't risk his life for you). He is still the reason Lee even manages to meet up with the group, since he gives Lee a ride, and without the group Lee and Clementine probably would have died much sooner.
Also, I think people are pretty harsh on him for choosing not to save Clementine. Because in all fairness, he had no reason to really think Lee couldn't handle a few sick old people, especially since he handled them alone before. That doesn't really make up for it, but it's not like he tried to sentence Clementine to death.
Well, Luke and Jane were about as big a deal as Kenny....
A lot happened in the final episode, so I have to add a few bits and pieces. I never actually expected such a turnout.
A lot happened in the final episode, so I have to add a few bits and pieces. I never actually expected such a turnout.
But it's not like Lee left him to die and then Kenny repaid the favour.
Kenny leaves you to die just for not helping him murder someone who dies anyway.