She wanted to prove how dangerous Kenny was, so of course she wasn't goint to attack first. She needed to make herself look like the victim.… more
What an awful timing to prove a point though. Deliberately leaving a helpless baby that could easily attract walkers, taunting a broken man knowing the consequences that would bring and manipulating you into potentially killing him just to make you know this man is dangerous? which is complete and utter bullshit, if you get his ending you'll realize Kenny wanted NOTHING but yours and AJ safety.
Can you say that about Jane?. No. She was crazy, manipulative, cold and deserved what she got.
Yeah, Kenny DID treat Arvo like a douchebag. He should have loosened up and maybe he'd trust Kenny more and not run.
Arvo shouldn't have shot Clem. I never sided with Kenny about abusing Arvo, and he shouldn't have shot me. I'v eonly ever been kind to him and he shot Clem to help with their escape. That is just selfish.
OK, not in the place where Arvo runs, that indeed wasn't the smartest idea. But that doesn't change the fact that being around a person who constantly wants to beat you up is not a good scenario.
I think the whole sister thing was true. I think he hid the meds for his sister and he was actually meant to bring it for the Russian guys, so he made up/ or is the actual truth when he says we stole his meds
Yes but still he didn't have to tell his group that he stole the medicine , but he could have told them to put the guns down because someone… more else robbed him not Clem . So i don't know if he was just a prick or simply an idiot but because of him Clems group got in a realy shity situation . Again i'm not here to prove that befriending Arvo is a bad thing i'm simply presenting my oppinion .
Clem is killing someone because they say she could have saved Lee? Clem didn't wear Lee on her sleeve the way Kenny wore Katja and Duck nor did she make otheres suffer for it.
Yah but you can't go and remind him of them with the first ocasion you get , and in some cases say he could have saved them ( like Jane did … morein the car ) . Think of it this wey , how would Clem react is there was someone telling her that Lee is dead because of her ? Or even better , telling her that she could have saved him but she didn't try hard enouf .
Kenny was indeed right about the following.
He was right not to trust that commie shitbird.
He was right about Jane, she was selfish and bitchie.
And he was right about Wellington.
Even though I had his back when it mattered, which obviously included helping him against that crazy bitch Jane, I did question him on one thing.
Granted, since Kenny did put the work into getting the truck running, so from that perspective, I can understand Kenny feeling like he had the right to say where it went.
However, if you're with a group, you need to think as a group.
That's a principle I had as Lee, and it's a principle I maintained as Clementine.
Nevertheless, I still stood by him.
Even when, as Clementine, I had the opportunity to enter Wellington, I refused to abandon Kenny.
Either we entered Wellington together, or fuck it!
Kenny's usually right about important stuff, even if he's loud about it.
It's been happening ever since Season 1:
* He was the first… more one to suspect the St.Johns and coaxed Lee into investigating
* He feared Larry might turn quickly,and by looking at Rebecca we know that can happen.
* He was always saying staying at the motel was not the best idea
* He knew it was a matter of time before Lilly turned on them and did something reckless
* He said there would be a boat in Savannah
* He said not to trust Ben to be left alone with Clem
* He distrusted Vernon from the start
* He advised against leaving the boat unattended
I think the whole sister thing was true. I think he hid the meds for his sister and he was actually meant to bring it for the Russian guys, so he made up/ or is the actual truth when he says we stole his meds
Kenny did the exact same thing to Lily, that Jane did to him. Preach about someone going reckless, they ultimately go reckless because of something you do. "See I was right about them being reckless."
Kenny's usually right about important stuff, even if he's loud about it.
It's been happening ever since Season 1:
* He was the first… more one to suspect the St.Johns and coaxed Lee into investigating
* He feared Larry might turn quickly,and by looking at Rebecca we know that can happen.
* He was always saying staying at the motel was not the best idea
* He knew it was a matter of time before Lilly turned on them and did something reckless
* He said there would be a boat in Savannah
* He said not to trust Ben to be left alone with Clem
* He distrusted Vernon from the start
* He advised against leaving the boat unattended
She has some respect. But lost most of it when she decided to manipulate people, insulted Kenny's dead family and girlfriend, pretended to l… moreet a baby die to prove some point while theres tons of walkers around, leaving the baby in a car with an OPEN window and said walkers. The baby only needed to cry to serve as a dinner bell.
She messed up completely. And to keep forcing us to prefer being alone... I don't get it. Its allways better to be in a group imo. Strength in numbers, taking watch, how is Clem (if she took the solo ending) going to protect AJ if she sleeps? No one around to protect her...
You're entitled to your opinion, but the "elusive" Wellington? How can it be elusive when it was an actual fact. Wellington exits and Kenny … morecave up his own position and safety so two young children with futures ahead of them could have a better chance in the world. That takes really heart, he owned up to his flaws as well and that takes a lot of courage. He knows he's done a lot of bad, where as Jane- she's just cold.
I'm not going to really defend Jane, nor Kenny with their actions. Both have been reckless and destructive to the group in their own ways.
Despite Clem's relationship with Kenny, letting him kill Jane, despite everything else, was just really wrong to me. Jane is without a doubt the most equipped "survivor" out there to last in the world as it is. Kenny was a loose cannon and could slip up and cost everyone everything. His heart was always in the right place, but he always found ways to mess up the group and make things hostile. Kenny's life was just off the rails and he knew it. He has his reasons, and I respect them a lot of the time, but I disagreed with taking out someone who saved Clementine's life so often throughout this season.
Look at how much Jane cared for Clementine on the ice. She ran after her and was the one that risked her life to save her.
I don't condone killing Kenny, it wasn't with a purpose like Lee's death, but I can't let him kill a survivor that taught Clementine so much in so little time. Not to mention Jane returned to the group and rescued them when things looked truly bad, she came back for Clementine and her alone.
It sucks, but, Kenny was broken. Jane, while easily equally messed up, has more to offer and was more strategic about how to handle things while Kenny just immediately jumped the gun and got to killing. I don't blame him, but that perspective would not last any more. Kenny was right a lot of the time, but things got completely out of hand when they shouldn't have, and he was the one that made things a problem by starting the first yell.
The only good thing was that Kenny accepted Clementine shooting him, despite how dark and awful it was. Killing Kenny was really the best choice if you consider the concept of survival. Jane was cold, but loved Clementine and trusted her (in my game, anyway). I can't say either decision was right or wrong, but for me, at this point in Clementine's life, survival is all that needs to matter and Kenny was a ticking time tomb.
I liked Kenny and Clem's relationship a lot, but things were just becoming too crazy. He cared about Alvin Jr. a lot, but was not able to put the baby first when it came to reactions. Kenny is just too impulsive and that kind of behavior is not going to lead to survival.
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing himself later on if you left with him. Jane might run off or die, too. With season 3 coming and so many different endings, I have no doubt that whoever we picked will likely be Omid'd here with how the story will go.
That's a bit cruel. How is that Arvo's fault? Kenny constantly berated and ebat on him when he didn't move fast enough, or take enough, or say the right things. Try being in a situation like that and tell me you wouldn't do something stupid like run. You're making the assumption that Arvo is wrong because he doesn't care for the groups safety as much as Kenny, or Clem, or Luke. He had every right to do what he did. I don't hate Arvo, but I'd still shoot him if I saw him come S3 (assuming I'm Clem). Besides that, the ice would have broken whether he ran or not. Luke was going to die, with or without Arvo doing a thing.
Arvo got Luke killed by stupidly running over the ice, was a total prick to Clem even if she was nice all the time and then shot her in the shoulder.
I'd say Kenny was pretty right.
Arvo was foolish, but he wasn't ever purposefully a prick. Do you stand up for Kenny doing dumb things because he was upset about his family? If so, how can you condemn Arvo for feeling the same way? He was obviously very young, nervous, and not the leader of his group in any way, shape, or forum. Besides, he does tell his group not to shoot. While it's likely neither of us understand Russian,. he was obviously distressed when speaking to them, especially after finding out you guys had a child. And the fighting might not have started assuming the first gunshot (to Becca) hadn't happened, which set everyone off.
It was an unfortunate circumstance bred through fear, as is most of the situations in TWDG. This isn't to say Arvo shouldn't be held responsible for the actions he does have control over, such as shooting Clem. But things indirectly done by him isn't really his fault, especially considering he has no reason to care for any of you group members, and that's not cold of him. He was beating by them, threatened, and his gun was taken. Let's also not forget he was a cripple, he has more reason to be antsy in the ZA, he's probably more vulnerable than even Clem (who is at least small enough and fast enough to get away from things).
She wanted to prove how dangerous Kenny was, so of course she wasn't goint to attack first. She needed to make herself look like the victim.… more
What an awful timing to prove a point though. Deliberately leaving a helpless baby that could easily attract walkers, taunting a broken man knowing the consequences that would bring and manipulating you into potentially killing him just to make you know this man is dangerous? which is complete and utter bullshit, if you get his ending you'll realize Kenny wanted NOTHING but yours and AJ safety.
Can you say that about Jane?. No. She was crazy, manipulative, cold and deserved what she got.
Okay, so Arvo was collecting these meds for the russian group. But he realised his sister needed them more, so he hid the meds, with the intention of hiding it and them bringing his sister from the russian gang. I think he wanted to make a break from them or something.
She didn't leave them because they were hurt (this wasn't the primary reason) she left them because they gave up, or (in Sarah's case) were too gone to even move. She already pointed out to Clem she wasn't leave her, and so far Jane has never directly lied to (my) Clem's face.
But what if Kenny had been wrong? Would it still be okay then? Because as far as Clem or anyone else knew, she had no proof. It's pure luck he was right. But sooner or alter there will be a time when he'll be wrong.
Hyperbole much? Hes not perfect but he sure as shit doesn't manipulate you and cost people their lives just to prove a point. Btw I was just doing as Jane asked when she told me to "stay out of it. "
I think.... I'm somewhat in the middle of your twos points, lool. One one hand, yes, Jane provoking him was dumb, and personally I see this as a flaw with the story, because I told her I wanted to leave Kenny earlier. I feel that would have been the time we ran, I feel Jane would have left it there, but Telltale wanted a fizzle. So working with that, Jane's plan was rash. Very rash, but it still served it's purpose, and I'm under the impression it needed to be rash, because there wouldn't be many times where she could have done this, and I know if I were her I wouldn't want to wait until he blew up without me being ready for it. I see her rashness the same way I see Kenny being rash on certain things (such as with Larry, which I agreed with). They both did their rash plan in panic because it did not to be done.
So I suppose that's where we all stand ;P. It's interesting to see people's perspective on the whole situation and morality in general. I find I'm more like Jane IRL. I'm a survivor, I want to save people (and I try) but I know when I gotta cut lose before I drown.
Kenny was far gone, that was obvious. Which is why I think Jane was insane to make that decision "to prove a point" that was the deal sealer… more for me.
They were both right and wrong in several of their points towards the other, which is why I think we will have to settle on that the choices are perfectly viable depending on what kind of person you would trust more.
And I suppose that's where the two of us differ
1- And guess what? Arvo wouldn't have done what he did if it wasn't for Kenny. Kenny kept acting like a bigoted, stupid, fucking lunatic the… more entire time and I kept hoping Mike would punch him out. What Mike did was wrong, but Kenny made the situation with Arvo worse than it needed to be. He wasn't "right" at all.
2- Charming. And sure, I'll give him that one. He fixed the car when he wasn't busy being a useless blowhard.
3- I'm not sure what this is saying.
4- Yeah, after he was done being an unreasonable shit to her like he usually was. Oh, sure, Jane was being unreasonable and idiotic too, but this is Kenny we're focusing on. They provoked each other and they both escalated things to levels that it didn't need to go, because they're both stupid, although Kenny was of course being written to be more sympathetic than Jane as per fucking usual.
I don't mean to be an asshole, but Kenny seriously pissed me off this episode. I'm sick of him, regardless of how his story plays out in other future playthroughs of mine.
By that logic Norman Bates is a hero and shouldn't have been considered a murderer at all. Kenny isn't the only one hurting. Hell, Cujo (the book) the dog wasn't bad, he was hurt, thought people were betraying him yada yada, would you keep him locked in a room, saying he was a good dog and he shouldn't have been put down? It's just something to think about.
Guys Come Give him a fucking break lost 2 wife's and a son he was protect a new born child put yourself in that situation for real and you will defnielty do the same and i think kenny though he sacrfice him because you know she's a loner n stuff
How is she cold? Cold suggests uncaring. Jane actually cared a lot, about a lot of things. She was aloof and clipped, but not at all cold. I'd say she was more afraid to be broken than anything.
You're entitled to your opinion, but the "elusive" Wellington? How can it be elusive when it was an actual fact. Wellington exits and Kenny … morecave up his own position and safety so two young children with futures ahead of them could have a better chance in the world. That takes really heart, he owned up to his flaws as well and that takes a lot of courage. He knows he's done a lot of bad, where as Jane- she's just cold.
While it was wrong for Jane to do the trick, she didn't force anything on Kenny. What if it had really been an accident? It's easy to say "look look, she provoked him, he has every right to attack her!" but he attacked a lot of people, and not all of them provoked him. He was abusive, plain and simple.
okay we've had enough of kenny lets talk about jane shall we ?
firsti said she is why all of this started why the russian is after us ...… more second she couldn't shut up in the car she made him angry and tried to abandon him in the snow while he was searching for gas .... made clem kill kenny FOR A POINT ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WTF
No wonder why jane sister left her
Comments
Damn right.
Kenny's usually right about important stuff, even if he's loud about it.
It's been happening ever since Season 1:
Yeah, Kenny DID treat Arvo like a douchebag. He should have loosened up and maybe he'd trust Kenny more and not run.
Arvo shouldn't have shot Clem. I never sided with Kenny about abusing Arvo, and he shouldn't have shot me. I'v eonly ever been kind to him and he shot Clem to help with their escape. That is just selfish.
I think the whole sister thing was true. I think he hid the meds for his sister and he was actually meant to bring it for the Russian guys, so he made up/ or is the actual truth when he says we stole his meds
Clem is killing someone because they say she could have saved Lee? Clem didn't wear Lee on her sleeve the way Kenny wore Katja and Duck nor did she make otheres suffer for it.
Kenny was indeed right about the following.
He was right not to trust that commie shitbird.
He was right about Jane, she was selfish and bitchie.
And he was right about Wellington.
Even though I had his back when it mattered, which obviously included helping him against that crazy bitch Jane, I did question him on one thing.
Granted, since Kenny did put the work into getting the truck running, so from that perspective, I can understand Kenny feeling like he had the right to say where it went.
However, if you're with a group, you need to think as a group.
That's a principle I had as Lee, and it's a principle I maintained as Clementine.
Nevertheless, I still stood by him.
Even when, as Clementine, I had the opportunity to enter Wellington, I refused to abandon Kenny.
Either we entered Wellington together, or fuck it!
True That
Ok but if he wanted to bring the meds to the hole russian group why hide them in the first place , dosn't make sense .
Kenny did the exact same thing to Lily, that Jane did to him. Preach about someone going reckless, they ultimately go reckless because of something you do. "See I was right about them being reckless."
An almost closed, or slightly open window.
If they made it as a group, they wouldn't have been let in.
I'm not going to really defend Jane, nor Kenny with their actions. Both have been reckless and destructive to the group in their own ways.
Despite Clem's relationship with Kenny, letting him kill Jane, despite everything else, was just really wrong to me. Jane is without a doubt the most equipped "survivor" out there to last in the world as it is. Kenny was a loose cannon and could slip up and cost everyone everything. His heart was always in the right place, but he always found ways to mess up the group and make things hostile. Kenny's life was just off the rails and he knew it. He has his reasons, and I respect them a lot of the time, but I disagreed with taking out someone who saved Clementine's life so often throughout this season.
Look at how much Jane cared for Clementine on the ice. She ran after her and was the one that risked her life to save her.
I don't condone killing Kenny, it wasn't with a purpose like Lee's death, but I can't let him kill a survivor that taught Clementine so much in so little time. Not to mention Jane returned to the group and rescued them when things looked truly bad, she came back for Clementine and her alone.
It sucks, but, Kenny was broken. Jane, while easily equally messed up, has more to offer and was more strategic about how to handle things while Kenny just immediately jumped the gun and got to killing. I don't blame him, but that perspective would not last any more. Kenny was right a lot of the time, but things got completely out of hand when they shouldn't have, and he was the one that made things a problem by starting the first yell.
The only good thing was that Kenny accepted Clementine shooting him, despite how dark and awful it was. Killing Kenny was really the best choice if you consider the concept of survival. Jane was cold, but loved Clementine and trusted her (in my game, anyway). I can't say either decision was right or wrong, but for me, at this point in Clementine's life, survival is all that needs to matter and Kenny was a ticking time tomb.
I liked Kenny and Clem's relationship a lot, but things were just becoming too crazy. He cared about Alvin Jr. a lot, but was not able to put the baby first when it came to reactions. Kenny is just too impulsive and that kind of behavior is not going to lead to survival.
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing himself later on if you left with him. Jane might run off or die, too. With season 3 coming and so many different endings, I have no doubt that whoever we picked will likely be Omid'd here with how the story will go.
That's a bit cruel. How is that Arvo's fault? Kenny constantly berated and ebat on him when he didn't move fast enough, or take enough, or say the right things. Try being in a situation like that and tell me you wouldn't do something stupid like run. You're making the assumption that Arvo is wrong because he doesn't care for the groups safety as much as Kenny, or Clem, or Luke. He had every right to do what he did. I don't hate Arvo, but I'd still shoot him if I saw him come S3 (assuming I'm Clem). Besides that, the ice would have broken whether he ran or not. Luke was going to die, with or without Arvo doing a thing.
Arvo was foolish, but he wasn't ever purposefully a prick. Do you stand up for Kenny doing dumb things because he was upset about his family? If so, how can you condemn Arvo for feeling the same way? He was obviously very young, nervous, and not the leader of his group in any way, shape, or forum. Besides, he does tell his group not to shoot. While it's likely neither of us understand Russian,. he was obviously distressed when speaking to them, especially after finding out you guys had a child. And the fighting might not have started assuming the first gunshot (to Becca) hadn't happened, which set everyone off.
It was an unfortunate circumstance bred through fear, as is most of the situations in TWDG. This isn't to say Arvo shouldn't be held responsible for the actions he does have control over, such as shooting Clem. But things indirectly done by him isn't really his fault, especially considering he has no reason to care for any of you group members, and that's not cold of him. He was beating by them, threatened, and his gun was taken. Let's also not forget he was a cripple, he has more reason to be antsy in the ZA, he's probably more vulnerable than even Clem (who is at least small enough and fast enough to get away from things).
Goddamn right!
She got exactly what she deserved.
Exactly what I thought.
Team Jane
XD
Okay, so Arvo was collecting these meds for the russian group. But he realised his sister needed them more, so he hid the meds, with the intention of hiding it and them bringing his sister from the russian gang. I think he wanted to make a break from them or something.
She didn't leave them because they were hurt (this wasn't the primary reason) she left them because they gave up, or (in Sarah's case) were too gone to even move. She already pointed out to Clem she wasn't leave her, and so far Jane has never directly lied to (my) Clem's face.
But what if Kenny had been wrong? Would it still be okay then? Because as far as Clem or anyone else knew, she had no proof. It's pure luck he was right. But sooner or alter there will be a time when he'll be wrong.
I think.... I'm somewhat in the middle of your twos points, lool. One one hand, yes, Jane provoking him was dumb, and personally I see this as a flaw with the story, because I told her I wanted to leave Kenny earlier. I feel that would have been the time we ran, I feel Jane would have left it there, but Telltale wanted a fizzle. So working with that, Jane's plan was rash. Very rash, but it still served it's purpose, and I'm under the impression it needed to be rash, because there wouldn't be many times where she could have done this, and I know if I were her I wouldn't want to wait until he blew up without me being ready for it. I see her rashness the same way I see Kenny being rash on certain things (such as with Larry, which I agreed with). They both did their rash plan in panic because it did not to be done.
So I suppose that's where we all stand ;P. It's interesting to see people's perspective on the whole situation and morality in general. I find I'm more like Jane IRL. I'm a survivor, I want to save people (and I try) but I know when I gotta cut lose before I drown.
You are assuming a lot, not really knowing for sure.
By that logic Norman Bates is a hero and shouldn't have been considered a murderer at all. Kenny isn't the only one hurting. Hell, Cujo (the book) the dog wasn't bad, he was hurt, thought people were betraying him yada yada, would you keep him locked in a room, saying he was a good dog and he shouldn't have been put down? It's just something to think about.
How is she cold? Cold suggests uncaring. Jane actually cared a lot, about a lot of things. She was aloof and clipped, but not at all cold. I'd say she was more afraid to be broken than anything.
While it was wrong for Jane to do the trick, she didn't force anything on Kenny. What if it had really been an accident? It's easy to say "look look, she provoked him, he has every right to attack her!" but he attacked a lot of people, and not all of them provoked him. He was abusive, plain and simple.