I think Jane and Luke's roles should've been swapped, leaving Jane to drown at the lake, and Luke being depressed due to the lost of his love interest..
I think Jane and Luke's roles should've been swapped, leaving Jane to drown at the lake, and Luke being depressed due to the lost of his love interest..
It sounds like you wanted to choose between Luke and Kenny, not Jane and Kenny. But I think the way it was done is good. Honestly Luke wasn't crazy enough to battle it out with Kenny on the level that needed to be done. Luke made some mistakes, but he's a "nice" guy.
Now look at Jane. Jane is strong willed and crazy enough to smear guts on herself, shoot a guy in the nuts and leave him to die. She saw a truly heartbreaking loss when her sister quit on her, which has changed how she relates to other people. Kenny also experienced that when Katjaa killed herself (along with his other losses). They both have their reasons for having strong feelings about family. Jane also really bonded with Clem in episode 4, much stronger than Luke bonded with Clem.
Jane was the right choice to go up against Kenny. They're both crazy, are really attached to Clem, and think their way of doing things and seeing the world is right. Luke just didn't have a strong enough reason to fight Kenny and carry the conflict.
I agree that Luke had kind of an odd character arc. He started out being the new Lee, then he was forgotten when Kenny showed up, then Nick died and he barely noticed, then Jane took over his role with Clem. Then we finally got to know Luke and he died. So I agree that Luke could have been built up to take on Kenny but since season 2 was mostly a mishmash of different writers who had no plan, Luke fell through the cracks. Based on where it ended up at the end of episode 4, Jane vs Kenny was a much better showdown than Luke vs Kenny.
I think we should have been presented with the choice of following Kenny, Jane OR Luke at the end (or none). They were clearly the main "leaders" who engaged Clementine, each with a different approach: Kenny was fiercely loyal, but aggressively stubborn; Jane was skilled at survival, but paranoid and disloyal; Luke was empathetic but a bit green and naive. I get the strangest feeling this was intended, and that only Bonnie was supposed to die at the lake. I'm also shocked at the decision to make all of these characters determinant at this stage if there are plans to continue Clem's storyline in Season 3. Maybe they can pull it off, but had they not made them possibly die, we wouldn't know their fate going into a new season. Once determinant, your fate is all but sealed in this game. The way it's going now, I feel like we'll see a short timeskip with Clem and AJ in trouble; basically a short-mini episode killing off whomever you ended up with, leading you to embark on your next journey, cue THE WALKING DEAD title.
You put SO much effort into a thread to just complain. Instead of that, you could of just kept it to yourself. But congrats you attention seeking complainer! Hope it feels better that you shared your opinion (even though you and I both know you'll be buying Season 3 )
Kenny was insane, but Jane reminded me of a crazy ex who would do anything to keep others out of her way, and to get you back. She left a baby in a car during the zombie apocalypse in the middle of a snowstorm, manipulated Kenny into attacking her, almost killed him, and then forced you to kill him. Then, she begs you for forgiveness and says "I did it for you" "We can be together now, we're free" "I did it for us" etc. I love Jane, but she definitely has a crazy side.
It sounds like you wanted to choose between Luke and Kenny, not Jane and Kenny. But I think the way it was done is good. Honestly Luke wasn'… moret crazy enough to battle it out with Kenny on the level that needed to be done. Luke made some mistakes, but he's a "nice" guy.
Now look at Jane. Jane is strong willed and crazy enough to smear guts on herself, shoot a guy in the nuts and leave him to die. She saw a truly heartbreaking loss when her sister quit on her, which has changed how she relates to other people. Kenny also experienced that when Katjaa killed herself (along with his other losses). They both have their reasons for having strong feelings about family. Jane also really bonded with Clem in episode 4, much stronger than Luke bonded with Clem.
Jane was the right choice to go up against Kenny. They're both crazy, are really attached to Clem, and think their way of doing things and seeing the world is right. Luke just didn't have a st… [view original content]
cough cough OMID cough cough. I really couldn't see them doing that with Kenny, they know the shit they will get for that, although they probably don't care. I REALLY hope they either
a. Get a new protagonist so that Jane, Kenny, and AJ live and we don't see another Omid occur.
b. They keep Kenny/Jane alive with you throughout Season 3 (very doubtful)
c. They keep them till Episode 4-5 and give them a good, meaningful death. I feel that they will have to chose this option if they wanna avoid shit from everyone.
I think we should have been presented with the choice of following Kenny, Jane OR Luke at the end (or none). They were clearly the main "lea… moreders" who engaged Clementine, each with a different approach: Kenny was fiercely loyal, but aggressively stubborn; Jane was skilled at survival, but paranoid and disloyal; Luke was empathetic but a bit green and naive. I get the strangest feeling this was intended, and that only Bonnie was supposed to die at the lake. I'm also shocked at the decision to make all of these characters determinant at this stage if there are plans to continue Clem's storyline in Season 3. Maybe they can pull it off, but had they not made them possibly die, we wouldn't know their fate going into a new season. Once determinant, your fate is all but sealed in this game. The way it's going now, I feel like we'll see a short timeskip with Clem and AJ in trouble; basically a short-mini episode killing off whomever you ended up with, leading you to embark on your next journey, cue THE WALKING DEAD title.
That's a little harsh isn't it? And what's the harm in saying you don't like something? I haven't been rude about what I've said o_O and I'm sure others might've thought of much meaner things to say about it in my place. Would you just prefer I lied and pretend I enjoyed the whole thing, because I didn't. That's just how it is sadly.
You put SO much effort into a thread to just complain. Instead of that, you could of just kept it to yourself. But congrats you attention se… moreeking complainer! Hope it feels better that you shared your opinion (even though you and I both know you'll be buying Season 3 )
You put SO much effort into a thread to just complain. Instead of that, you could of just kept it to yourself. But congrats you attention se… moreeking complainer! Hope it feels better that you shared your opinion (even though you and I both know you'll be buying Season 3 )
That's what I was thinking the whole time. People don't typically drown in water that cold, they freeze. And they can be brought back after a reasonably long time in the water. When I saw Luke floating there with his eyes open I said "Shit! Oh well, let's just drag him to land and stomp on his chest a few times near a warm fire {I didn't get my CPR certificate =( }."
Luke: I got lucky, real lucky
Clem:...okay, you're going to have to be more specific on that.
I know it's stupid, but there was actual… morely an incident I read some years ago where a woman drowned and was under water for I think over 15 minutes without air [or it might've been 7, I can't remember the exact time] but because the water was so cold her brain didn't suffer any damage and she was able to survive the incident...yeah, Luke just needs the moon to magically raise him from the ice and make him a guardian and think he'll be okay.
I don't hold out much hope on though, but the Kenny effect would indeed be nice :P
I agree with you that Luke should have been there at the end, especially after all that build up for a Kenny vs. Luke confrontation. However, I just can't picture Luke doing what Jane did, hiding the baby in order to provoke Kenny into a fight. He's not deceptive nor does he have the guile to pull such a thing off. Perhaps Telltale originally intended for Luke to be the one fighting Kenny, but the then someone pointed out that it would be out of character for Luke and they decided to swap him for Jane to keep the integrity of Luke's character intact. If that was the case, then I'm glad for it, but I still think Luke should have been an option for Clem and AJ to be with in the end.
While I definitely didn't enjoy this Season as much as the first (Episodes 3 and 4 can burn in hell...), I will say that Episode 5 was my favorite this Season behind Episode 2. Yeah, it wasn't the most satisfying conclusion, but I think that's because there was no overall plot. Maybe with a set team of writers the can avoid this in the future, but Episode 5 ended as best it could considering where it started.
Maybe if it'd been Luke, he might've hid the baby to protect it if he didn't think Kenny was mentally well enough to care for it [more so if like Jane, he was against the idea of searching around for Wellington when they barely had enough food for the baby]. But I don't think it would've gone down like it did for the same reasons at least, not in a way to provoke Kenny, but Luke wanting to keep Clem and the baby safe and get them away from him. And if Kenny attacked first, I could've only seen Luke trying to defend himself from the guy.
I just felt nothing for Jane at that moment, because it didn't feel like it should be her there at all. I just, ah...I need to scream into a pillow.
I agree with you that Luke should have been there at the end, especially after all that build up for a Kenny vs. Luke confrontation. However… more, I just can't picture Luke doing what Jane did, hiding the baby in order to provoke Kenny into a fight. He's not deceptive nor does he have the guile to pull such a thing off. Perhaps Telltale originally intended for Luke to be the one fighting Kenny, but the then someone pointed out that it would be out of character for Luke and they decided to swap him for Jane to keep the integrity of Luke's character intact. If that was the case, then I'm glad for it, but I still think Luke should have been an option for Clem and AJ to be with in the end.
Actually, I do agree with you on some levels. Hear me out, everyone, who may think differently.
Me as a writer, as well, I think it's been pretty clear that Telltale does change their scripts between episodes. This episode and Luke's death (hopefully he's not dead ) are just more examples. And I think their reasoning behind it is they want the biggest surprise factor possible. For instance, a lot of people were predicting the "Luke vs. Kenny" war at the end, therefore they could've switch Luke's roll and had him die to add surprise to those who thought they were definitely getting the war they wanted. I think that's the case because listening to Kenny and Jane argue in the car I was thinking two things: 1) When did Jane get this angry at Kenny and why so fast? She had her opinions, but never argued with him like this. 2) Jane sounds sooooo much like Luke in this scene it's ridiculous.
Also, this hasn't been the only time. Telltale has put in multiple small details that have either been hinting towards something in the future or completely forgotten, as well as completely went against logic previously set up to surprise us. 1) There was a tape from Crawford (one of the tapes that involved the doctor and Molly) on Carver's desk, implying that there may've been a connection between our group/Carver's and Crawford for us to find out about later. 2) The cast of 400 Days (besides Bonnie) was only in Episode 3 for split seconds, whereas they probably were meant to be included further into the Season, but were then replaced by Arvo's group. 3) Seeing that most people cut off Sarita's arm (which we were just proven by Reggie to actually save her life) the script was rewritten to have her die in the herd rather than live, and vice-versa if you weren't in the herd, just for the element of surprise. There are other examples (for one, I predicted Jane to be Molly's sister for multiple reasons before Ep 4) but I won't get into them.
Also, you can tell from the "Next on The Walking Dead" segments that there were definitely scenes rewritten. One major example is at the end of Episode 1. Not only does it show that Troy comes to the cabin instead of Carver, but that Matthew was supposed to be alive and not shot on the bridge. Also, at the end of Episode 3, the scene where Clem removes Kenny's bandage was shown and was supposed to in Episode 4, but wasn't included until Episode 5.
I'm not complaining about Telltale's writing because I actually know they're amazing, and Telltale Games are actually the only games I play because I believe their stories are worth playing (and also I don't own a console :P)
But pretty much what I'm trying to say is I do agree with you and I definitely think the script was rewritten and that Luke was not supposed to die. I loved the episode, but I must say, after Luke died, I wasn't crying for ten minutes straight because I would miss him and was saying "He's dead! Why?" I was crying for ten minutes straight because I was repeating to myself "He wasn't supposed to die!"
I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and if you don't agree with mine, I'm totally okay with it. You deserve to have your own opinions and no one should try to tell you you're wrong. I'm simply putting my opinion out there after reading this post because I have to say I do agree with what Lilacsbloom is saying.
Regardless, I'm definitely going to play Season 3 because all the other four episodes were home runs and each one succeeded the last. This one did, as well (despite my whole issue regarding Luke's death and the aftermath because of it), and I still love Telltale Games and all that they do and still want to support them whole-heartedly. I love TWD and TWAU and Telltale Games!!!
But still, I cat help thinking to myself "Luke was supposed to be alive."
Wow...I didn't realize how long this was going to be :P
Maybe if it'd been Luke, he might've hid the baby to protect it if he didn't think Kenny was mentally well enough to care for it [more so if… more like Jane, he was against the idea of searching around for Wellington when they barely had enough food for the baby]. But I don't think it would've gone down like it did for the same reasons at least, not in a way to provoke Kenny, but Luke wanting to keep Clem and the baby safe and get them away from him. And if Kenny attacked first, I could've only seen Luke trying to defend himself from the guy.
I just felt nothing for Jane at that moment, because it didn't feel like it should be her there at all. I just, ah...I need to scream into a pillow.
"I'll never let go Luke... I'll never let go." XD
But in all serious, it was rushed. He was one of the first characters we met in season 1 and should have had a better death.
Im no sjw but the arvo thing was just racism, his nationality had no bearing on the narrative it was just shoehorned hatemongering, Kennys constant racist remarks despite making no similar comments before only adds to this.
But you right about times of her sounding so much like Luke. Like Kenny saying Jane running off when they're arguing in the car, doesn't that make you think of the time Luke ran off in Episode 2 and Kenny assumed he abandoned everybody? Also the whole theme of trust, both at Luke and Kenny's table the options come up to say 'do you trust him with your life' and later in episode 3, Kenny asks Clem 'you trust me right?' in a very direct way like focus was being put on it and Clem has the option to answer. When Jane asks Clem about saying she has to trust her like I got in the screenshot in this thread, it really felt like that was when it would've been Luke's turn to say in that same kind of 'direct manner was meant to come up. Heck the endings of going with Kenny or Jane feels like they're about trust too, that despite everything you're getting the option to trust them.
I know rewrites happen, and I noticed it a lot with Matthew because it built it up to the whole confrontation with Walter and having to defend Nick. Although if the rewrite happend so Luke die sooner instead of maybe happening in that playground, kinda made everything up until then with his character and Kenny butting heads completely meaningless.
Doesn't matter who you sit with, who you defend or agree with, because Jane is just gonna swoop on in and totally boot that out the window into the snow ;_; you can see why I'm disappointed. When you get build up and amounts to nothing, it's hard to enjoy it. It was a plot-twist that didn't work for me and didn't need to be there.
Although do have fun with Season 3. They do do good game, but they're going to have to create a miracle for me to even consider playing it T_T
Actually, I do agree with you on some levels. Hear me out, everyone, who may think differently.
Me as a writer, as well, I think it's bee… moren pretty clear that Telltale does change their scripts between episodes. This episode and Luke's death (hopefully he's not dead ) are just more examples. And I think their reasoning behind it is they want the biggest surprise factor possible. For instance, a lot of people were predicting the "Luke vs. Kenny" war at the end, therefore they could've switch Luke's roll and had him die to add surprise to those who thought they were definitely getting the war they wanted. I think that's the case because listening to Kenny and Jane argue in the car I was thinking two things: 1) When did Jane get this angry at Kenny and why so fast? She had her opinions, but never argued with him like this. 2) Jane sounds sooooo much like Luke in this scene it's ridiculous.
Also, this hasn't been the only time. Telltale has … [view original content]
Totally agree with you on everything. Buying Season 3 for me depends on if it'll continue Clementine's story or not.
Things that hurt Sea… moreson 2
* Vanaman and Rodkin's leave
* rushing TWAU and TWD at the same time. They should have ended TWAU first and then come out with TWD
* constant change of writers all over the damn place
* and other small things that i'm too depressed about to mention
It saddens me that borderlands and game of thrones are getting much better writers such as G.R.R. Martin's personal assistant or the guy that left Bungie to work with Telltale.
Pierre Shorette needs to be fired.
Yeah, I did at the campfire. Clem just says "You know what I mean." and looks away. Luke thanks her and says he would too after a few seconds of awkward silence.
how about you stop demanding that they conform to your way of thinking (of which I'm in disagreement with myself), you know, the same luxory they afforded you?
Actually, I do agree with you on some levels. Hear me out, everyone, who may think differently.
Me as a writer, as well, I think it's bee… moren pretty clear that Telltale does change their scripts between episodes. This episode and Luke's death (hopefully he's not dead ) are just more examples. And I think their reasoning behind it is they want the biggest surprise factor possible. For instance, a lot of people were predicting the "Luke vs. Kenny" war at the end, therefore they could've switch Luke's roll and had him die to add surprise to those who thought they were definitely getting the war they wanted. I think that's the case because listening to Kenny and Jane argue in the car I was thinking two things: 1) When did Jane get this angry at Kenny and why so fast? She had her opinions, but never argued with him like this. 2) Jane sounds sooooo much like Luke in this scene it's ridiculous.
Also, this hasn't been the only time. Telltale has … [view original content]
how about you stop demanding that they conform to your way of thinking (of which I'm in disagreement with myself), you know, the same luxory they afforded you?
Not all fanfic is crappy, just like how not all officially published works are well written. And the definition of a writer is someone who writes. Technically, all of us here on this forum are writers because we're writing stuff.
Well, I don't hold out much hope either really. And don't take this seriously, but if you really want to know, this study says, "Conversely, protecting the brain from hypoxic injury (and thus a favorable neurologic recovery) following cold-water submersion can be favorably modified by the co-existence of hypothermia. The protective effects of safe usage of hypothermic without neurologic damage is multifaceted and influenced by age, time, temperature and intracellular pH, metabolic rate, biochemical changes, high-energy storage depots, as well as institution of rewarming techniques....A child who appears asystolic, apneic, and with absence of central nervous system activity after cold-water submersion, requiring intensive resuscitative efforts, may have a favorable outcome."
Basically it's saying, "Having hypothermia can help protect the brain from losing oxygen following cold-water drowning, and thus this can help the person's brain to recover. The protective effects of this change depending on age, time, temperature, how you rewarm the body, etc. A kid who isn't breathing, has no pulse, and has no brain activity after drowning may be ok with intensive resuscitation." Basically this happens because the cold slows everything down, including how quickly the brain uses up oxygen. Idk. Hm might do more research just bc I'm curious....
That's what I was thinking the whole time. People don't typically drown in water that cold, they freeze. And they can be brought back after … morea reasonably long time in the water. When I saw Luke floating there with his eyes open I said "Shit! Oh well, let's just drag him to land and stomp on his chest a few times near a warm fire {I didn't get my CPR certificate =( }."
Surely it being Luke and Kenny would have been predictable. Also their is no way Luke would ever do what Jane did, hes a nice guy at the end of the day who wants to help everyone. Not to mention Luke was the glue that held the group together without him Bonnie/Mike were stuck with a crazed man and neither trusted Jane all that much
let me tell u one thing .... a group cant have two leaders jst like the case of lily and kenny in season 1... coming to season 2 luke never wanted to be a leader he jst followed kenny's instructions and jane had other plans ..... hence TTG split decision between kenny and jane while they placed luke as a placeholder in episode 5 ,,, i am damn happy with this episode
To be honest it seems like you're largely annoyed/disappointed with this episode because it didn't end how you wanted it to. You kept coming back to how "Luke should have done this/Luke should have done that", rather than how key plot points were played out by Telltale. I'm sorry but it seems pretty...childish to boycott an entire game series just because your "favourite" character died. That's the point of TWD, characters you love die! Characters disappoint you! Because that's what would happen if the zombie apocalypse actually happened, people would die in vain, people would be selfish assholes, nothing would go to plan.
I do agree about your "What happened to Christa? What happened to Eddie and the other 400 days characters? What happened with going to the town and the church in the achievement picture that was clearly shown on the map too? Why did they cross the frozen lake when they could’ve walked around the side?" statement. Those were some pretty big plot holes (in my opinion), especially as they specifically told us the 400 days characters would largely influence season 2.
Comments
I think Jane and Luke's roles should've been swapped, leaving Jane to drown at the lake, and Luke being depressed due to the lost of his love interest..
Yeah, that probably would've been better.
It sounds like you wanted to choose between Luke and Kenny, not Jane and Kenny. But I think the way it was done is good. Honestly Luke wasn't crazy enough to battle it out with Kenny on the level that needed to be done. Luke made some mistakes, but he's a "nice" guy.
Now look at Jane. Jane is strong willed and crazy enough to smear guts on herself, shoot a guy in the nuts and leave him to die. She saw a truly heartbreaking loss when her sister quit on her, which has changed how she relates to other people. Kenny also experienced that when Katjaa killed herself (along with his other losses). They both have their reasons for having strong feelings about family. Jane also really bonded with Clem in episode 4, much stronger than Luke bonded with Clem.
Jane was the right choice to go up against Kenny. They're both crazy, are really attached to Clem, and think their way of doing things and seeing the world is right. Luke just didn't have a strong enough reason to fight Kenny and carry the conflict.
I agree that Luke had kind of an odd character arc. He started out being the new Lee, then he was forgotten when Kenny showed up, then Nick died and he barely noticed, then Jane took over his role with Clem. Then we finally got to know Luke and he died. So I agree that Luke could have been built up to take on Kenny but since season 2 was mostly a mishmash of different writers who had no plan, Luke fell through the cracks. Based on where it ended up at the end of episode 4, Jane vs Kenny was a much better showdown than Luke vs Kenny.
I think we should have been presented with the choice of following Kenny, Jane OR Luke at the end (or none). They were clearly the main "leaders" who engaged Clementine, each with a different approach: Kenny was fiercely loyal, but aggressively stubborn; Jane was skilled at survival, but paranoid and disloyal; Luke was empathetic but a bit green and naive. I get the strangest feeling this was intended, and that only Bonnie was supposed to die at the lake. I'm also shocked at the decision to make all of these characters determinant at this stage if there are plans to continue Clem's storyline in Season 3. Maybe they can pull it off, but had they not made them possibly die, we wouldn't know their fate going into a new season. Once determinant, your fate is all but sealed in this game. The way it's going now, I feel like we'll see a short timeskip with Clem and AJ in trouble; basically a short-mini episode killing off whomever you ended up with, leading you to embark on your next journey, cue THE WALKING DEAD title.
You put SO much effort into a thread to just complain. Instead of that, you could of just kept it to yourself. But congrats you attention seeking complainer! Hope it feels better that you shared your opinion (even though you and I both know you'll be buying Season 3
)
Kenny was insane, but Jane reminded me of a crazy ex who would do anything to keep others out of her way, and to get you back. She left a baby in a car during the zombie apocalypse in the middle of a snowstorm, manipulated Kenny into attacking her, almost killed him, and then forced you to kill him. Then, she begs you for forgiveness and says "I did it for you" "We can be together now, we're free" "I did it for us" etc. I love Jane, but she definitely has a crazy side.
cough cough OMID cough cough. I really couldn't see them doing that with Kenny, they know the shit they will get for that, although they probably don't care. I REALLY hope they either
a. Get a new protagonist so that Jane, Kenny, and AJ live and we don't see another Omid occur.
b. They keep Kenny/Jane alive with you throughout Season 3 (very doubtful)
c. They keep them till Episode 4-5 and give them a good, meaningful death. I feel that they will have to chose this option if they wanna avoid shit from everyone.
That's a little harsh isn't it? And what's the harm in saying you don't like something? I haven't been rude about what I've said o_O and I'm sure others might've thought of much meaner things to say about it in my place. Would you just prefer I lied and pretend I enjoyed the whole thing, because I didn't. That's just how it is sadly.
I'd rather be honest than lie.
Quit be so close mined and biased, it's very annoying and stupid of you.
That's what I was thinking the whole time. People don't typically drown in water that cold, they freeze. And they can be brought back after a reasonably long time in the water. When I saw Luke floating there with his eyes open I said "Shit! Oh well, let's just drag him to land and stomp on his chest a few times near a warm fire {I didn't get my CPR certificate =( }."
I agree with you that Luke should have been there at the end, especially after all that build up for a Kenny vs. Luke confrontation. However, I just can't picture Luke doing what Jane did, hiding the baby in order to provoke Kenny into a fight. He's not deceptive nor does he have the guile to pull such a thing off. Perhaps Telltale originally intended for Luke to be the one fighting Kenny, but the then someone pointed out that it would be out of character for Luke and they decided to swap him for Jane to keep the integrity of Luke's character intact. If that was the case, then I'm glad for it, but I still think Luke should have been an option for Clem and AJ to be with in the end.
While I definitely didn't enjoy this Season as much as the first (Episodes 3 and 4 can burn in hell...), I will say that Episode 5 was my favorite this Season behind Episode 2. Yeah, it wasn't the most satisfying conclusion, but I think that's because there was no overall plot. Maybe with a set team of writers the can avoid this in the future, but Episode 5 ended as best it could considering where it started.
i have a feeling that season 3 won't feature clemmy
The only disappoint is that anyone chose Kenny and let him become next Carver/Lily.
Maybe if it'd been Luke, he might've hid the baby to protect it if he didn't think Kenny was mentally well enough to care for it [more so if like Jane, he was against the idea of searching around for Wellington when they barely had enough food for the baby]. But I don't think it would've gone down like it did for the same reasons at least, not in a way to provoke Kenny, but Luke wanting to keep Clem and the baby safe and get them away from him. And if Kenny attacked first, I could've only seen Luke trying to defend himself from the guy.
I just felt nothing for Jane at that moment, because it didn't feel like it should be her there at all. I just, ah...I need to scream into a pillow.
cool like I said don't buy or buy. your choice
Actually, I do agree with you on some levels. Hear me out, everyone, who may think differently.
Me as a writer, as well, I think it's been pretty clear that Telltale does change their scripts between episodes. This episode and Luke's death (hopefully he's not dead
) are just more examples. And I think their reasoning behind it is they want the biggest surprise factor possible. For instance, a lot of people were predicting the "Luke vs. Kenny" war at the end, therefore they could've switch Luke's roll and had him die to add surprise to those who thought they were definitely getting the war they wanted. I think that's the case because listening to Kenny and Jane argue in the car I was thinking two things: 1) When did Jane get this angry at Kenny and why so fast? She had her opinions, but never argued with him like this. 2) Jane sounds sooooo much like Luke in this scene it's ridiculous.
Also, this hasn't been the only time. Telltale has put in multiple small details that have either been hinting towards something in the future or completely forgotten, as well as completely went against logic previously set up to surprise us. 1) There was a tape from Crawford (one of the tapes that involved the doctor and Molly) on Carver's desk, implying that there may've been a connection between our group/Carver's and Crawford for us to find out about later. 2) The cast of 400 Days (besides Bonnie) was only in Episode 3 for split seconds, whereas they probably were meant to be included further into the Season, but were then replaced by Arvo's group. 3) Seeing that most people cut off Sarita's arm (which we were just proven by Reggie to actually save her life) the script was rewritten to have her die in the herd rather than live, and vice-versa if you weren't in the herd, just for the element of surprise. There are other examples (for one, I predicted Jane to be Molly's sister for multiple reasons before Ep 4) but I won't get into them.
Also, you can tell from the "Next on The Walking Dead" segments that there were definitely scenes rewritten. One major example is at the end of Episode 1. Not only does it show that Troy comes to the cabin instead of Carver, but that Matthew was supposed to be alive and not shot on the bridge. Also, at the end of Episode 3, the scene where Clem removes Kenny's bandage was shown and was supposed to in Episode 4, but wasn't included until Episode 5.
I'm not complaining about Telltale's writing because I actually know they're amazing, and Telltale Games are actually the only games I play because I believe their stories are worth playing (and also I don't own a console :P)
But pretty much what I'm trying to say is I do agree with you and I definitely think the script was rewritten and that Luke was not supposed to die. I loved the episode, but I must say, after Luke died, I wasn't crying for ten minutes straight because I would miss him and was saying "He's dead! Why?" I was crying for ten minutes straight because I was repeating to myself "He wasn't supposed to die!"
I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and if you don't agree with mine, I'm totally okay with it. You deserve to have your own opinions and no one should try to tell you you're wrong. I'm simply putting my opinion out there after reading this post because I have to say I do agree with what Lilacsbloom is saying.
Regardless, I'm definitely going to play Season 3 because all the other four episodes were home runs and each one succeeded the last. This one did, as well (despite my whole issue regarding Luke's death and the aftermath because of it), and I still love Telltale Games and all that they do and still want to support them whole-heartedly. I love TWD and TWAU and Telltale Games!!!
But still, I cat help thinking to myself "Luke was supposed to be alive."
Wow...I didn't realize how long this was going to be :P
Yeah, I never really warmed up to Jane. I appreciated her survival tips, but that was it. To me, Jane kind of felt forced on us.
Did anyone else choose the dialogue option at the campfire that had Clem say "I'd come back for you
"
chooses to cover luke instead
Im no sjw but the arvo thing was just racism, his nationality had no bearing on the narrative it was just shoehorned hatemongering, Kennys constant racist remarks despite making no similar comments before only adds to this.
this is very nitpicky.
Beanerzz, marry me
But you right about times of her sounding so much like Luke. Like Kenny saying Jane running off when they're arguing in the car, doesn't that make you think of the time Luke ran off in Episode 2 and Kenny assumed he abandoned everybody? Also the whole theme of trust, both at Luke and Kenny's table the options come up to say 'do you trust him with your life' and later in episode 3, Kenny asks Clem 'you trust me right?' in a very direct way like focus was being put on it and Clem has the option to answer. When Jane asks Clem about saying she has to trust her like I got in the screenshot in this thread, it really felt like that was when it would've been Luke's turn to say in that same kind of 'direct manner was meant to come up. Heck the endings of going with Kenny or Jane feels like they're about trust too, that despite everything you're getting the option to trust them.
I know rewrites happen, and I noticed it a lot with Matthew because it built it up to the whole confrontation with Walter and having to defend Nick. Although if the rewrite happend so Luke die sooner instead of maybe happening in that playground, kinda made everything up until then with his character and Kenny butting heads completely meaningless.
Doesn't matter who you sit with, who you defend or agree with, because Jane is just gonna swoop on in and totally boot that out the window into the snow ;_; you can see why I'm disappointed. When you get build up and amounts to nothing, it's hard to enjoy it. It was a plot-twist that didn't work for me and didn't need to be there.
Although do have fun with Season 3. They do do good game, but they're going to have to create a miracle for me to even consider playing it T_T
I haven't personally seen your opinion of Episode 5 yet. Did you think that one was good at least?
Yeah, I did at the campfire. Clem just says "You know what I mean." and looks away. Luke thanks her and says he would too after a few seconds of awkward silence.
Im definitely going to play season three because at least I know one element I didnt want has been removed.
Quit it with this nitpicking and be glad you got a solid episode cupcake.
I agree. Why spoil a damn good episode by picking out the details and stuff?
Because it's what I do, it's who I am dude and I can't help how I feel XD I'm a nightmare in the flesh even to myself.
I get it, but, what matters more are the overall story and the characters and how we connect with them.
how about you stop demanding that they conform to your way of thinking (of which I'm in disagreement with myself), you know, the same luxory they afforded you?
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So you don't agree with an opinion and decide to insult a person instead over it? That's not very nice K0t0, and I have nothing more to say.
I'm not demanding that at all. I'm just saying that the bigger picture is what matters more, and that the little details shouldn't have to spoil that.
Not all fanfic is crappy, just like how not all officially published works are well written. And the definition of a writer is someone who writes. Technically, all of us here on this forum are writers because we're writing stuff.
Well, I don't hold out much hope either really. And don't take this seriously, but if you really want to know, this study says, "Conversely, protecting the brain from hypoxic injury (and thus a favorable neurologic recovery) following cold-water submersion can be favorably modified by the co-existence of hypothermia. The protective effects of safe usage of hypothermic without neurologic damage is multifaceted and influenced by age, time, temperature and intracellular pH, metabolic rate, biochemical changes, high-energy storage depots, as well as institution of rewarming techniques....A child who appears asystolic, apneic, and with absence of central nervous system activity after cold-water submersion, requiring intensive resuscitative efforts, may have a favorable outcome."
Basically it's saying, "Having hypothermia can help protect the brain from losing oxygen following cold-water drowning, and thus this can help the person's brain to recover. The protective effects of this change depending on age, time, temperature, how you rewarm the body, etc. A kid who isn't breathing, has no pulse, and has no brain activity after drowning may be ok with intensive resuscitation." Basically this happens because the cold slows everything down, including how quickly the brain uses up oxygen. Idk. Hm might do more research just bc I'm curious....
How is this "nitpicking"?
Surely it being Luke and Kenny would have been predictable. Also their is no way Luke would ever do what Jane did, hes a nice guy at the end of the day who wants to help everyone. Not to mention Luke was the glue that held the group together without him Bonnie/Mike were stuck with a crazed man and neither trusted Jane all that much
let me tell u one thing .... a group cant have two leaders jst like the case of lily and kenny in season 1... coming to season 2 luke never wanted to be a leader he jst followed kenny's instructions and jane had other plans ..... hence TTG split decision between kenny and jane while they placed luke as a placeholder in episode 5 ,,, i am damn happy with this episode
Yeah it was really good but there are also some troubles with that i'll probably have to make a thread about it
To be honest it seems like you're largely annoyed/disappointed with this episode because it didn't end how you wanted it to. You kept coming back to how "Luke should have done this/Luke should have done that", rather than how key plot points were played out by Telltale. I'm sorry but it seems pretty...childish to boycott an entire game series just because your "favourite" character died. That's the point of TWD, characters you love die! Characters disappoint you! Because that's what would happen if the zombie apocalypse actually happened, people would die in vain, people would be selfish assholes, nothing would go to plan.
I do agree about your "What happened to Christa? What happened to Eddie and the other 400 days characters? What happened with going to the town and the church in the achievement picture that was clearly shown on the map too? Why did they cross the frozen lake when they could’ve walked around the side?" statement. Those were some pretty big plot holes (in my opinion), especially as they specifically told us the 400 days characters would largely influence season 2.