Yeah he went off at her because it made sense to him- but that is not a legitimate reason to kill someone.
I never said it was, I just said that Jane´s attitude made plausible for him that she killed AJ and that Kenny just lashed out baselessly is plainly wrong.
And Comintern1919 was describing the sort of thing Kenny should have come to the conclusion to, not 'baby killer!'
Even if Comintern mean that, which he clearly doesn´t, Kenny has enougth reasons to come to that conclusion, like I already said.
Kenny's attitude throughout the season was just getting worse and worse Kenny's attitude throughout the season was just getting worse and worse. Naturally in the last episode you'd expect him to be at his worst (not that it wasn't without reason, Sarita's death, the mangling Carver gave him). He was constantly caustic throughout the season and there were even a couple weird tense moments in episode 2
This is just wrong. Kenny´s actitude worsens because of Sarita´s death, that he has to survive with the people that indirectly caused the situation that got her killed in the first place, and the beating doesn´t inmedialy worsens his attitude, even if it contributes to this attitude in No Going Back. All of Kenny´s questionable actions are in No Going Back.
He was constantly caustic throughout the season.
Name one time that he was like that except just after the death of Sarita or in No Going Back.
And and there were even a couple weird tense moments in episode 2
Name just one moment.
(to the point were Sarita asks you what was he like- showing that she thinks there's something 'wrong' with him).
She asks what he what he is like because he had not told her his past, not because she thinks there´s something wrong with him.
I also fail to see what points of yours I missed, but I'm happy to go back and discuss them.
You ignored a lot of my first post, and you do the same to my second post. Here are some qoutes that you don´t adress for both posts:
The ending in which you kill Kenny doesn´t hold any weight. He can be either a depressed man that just got shot by what he considers his foster daughter because he was trying to kill somebody that he had reasons to think had killed AJ, or somebody saying it for Clementines sake so she doesn´t have to keep on living with guilt.
She lies about the baby´s death when Kenny had just lost Sarita less that two days ago fully knowing it could provoke him into a fight, which she could have stopped but didn´t, and was the first one to go for the kill by slashing Kenny´s stomach.
Kenny doesn´t know if Jane killed AJ, but he had legitimate reasons to think so, so while it doesn´t make it right he is not wrong either, and because Jane says that we are going to see Kenny for who he really is the players know Jane is lying. You are just simplifying the reasons for the fight and the fight for your own benefit. We don’t justify murder in anyway, but Jane pushed Kenny into the fight, Jane could have stopped everything, and she demonstrated that she only worries about her own interest by the whole plan so to shot Kenny because of Jane´s mistakes is more wrong that letting Kenny kill her.
Name one time that he screams am- except at Clem right after losing Sarita-or threatens anybody except in No Going Back. The only examples you give are straight for No Going Back, at are justifiable. First, Kenny doesn´t punch Clem, his elbows hit’s her in the face because she was just being him when he was punching Arvo. Second, he only hits him a few times so it’s hardly a beating or a mauling, and Arvo had just caused the death of Luke.
I honestly can´t believe this:
Also like I said I liked Kenny, but in the end, neither of them were right.
What made you think that I was trying to argue that Kenny was full rigth? I trying to argue that Jane did more wrong in that situation, not that Kenny didn´t make mistakes.
Kenny was just really dangerous to be around.
I fail to see how you could say this.
He was what really drove the rest of us apart by being difficult
This hardly justifies doing what Jane did.
I couldn't just stand by and watch him kill Jane.
But you are siding with a woman that deliberately pushed a broken man over the edge so she can kill him? Okay.
Yeah he went off at her because it made sense to him- but that is not a legitimate reason to kill someone. And Comintern1919 was describing … morethe sort of thing Kenny should have come to the conclusion to, not 'baby killer!'
(I could be wrong about Kenny not knowing that Jane had said the baby was a burden, I'm not 100% on that but I'm sure if Kenny had heard that he would have flipped out)
Kenny's attitude throughout the season was just getting worse and worse. Naturally in the last episode you'd expect him to be at his worst (not that it wasn't without reason, Sarita's death, the mangling Carver gave him). He was constantly caustic throughout the season and there were even a couple weird tense moments in episode 2 (to the point were Sarita asks you what was he like- showing that she thinks there's something 'wrong' with him).
I also fail to see what points of yours I missed, but I'm happy to go back and discuss them. Also like I said … [view original content]
So many people back up Kenny lol.
The sensible thing to do would be kill Kenny. He literally drove away the remainder of the group and fucked everything up.
Like Mike and Bonnie said, it was Kenny's fault that Arvo ran on the ice, causing panic and Luke's death.
Everyone in the group besides Clementine and Sarita basically hated Kenny, and for good reason. He wasn't the cool guy back in Season 1, and even back then he was a prick.
Jane manipulative, plain and simple.
She proved that when she pretended AJ was dead, and then playing on the fragile emotions of a man who had already lost nearly everything.
That kind of behavior is both wrong, and completely repulsive.
I could understand not trusting Jane after the ending, but I still dont understand how you could ever go with Kenny. Youre going to be stuck with him and him alone for the rest of your life unless you abandon him at some point. He doesnt get along with anyone except Sarita, who I honestly think might have been a bit touched in the head.
I'd say they were as bad as each other, and my decision in the end was that Kenny more dangerous out of the two of them to be with.
HOWEVER! At the point Kenny is going to kill Jane all you KNOW (wish I could do italics here, I'm not shouting, just emphasising) is that the baby was killed accidentally- only with hindsight do you find out that she hadn't killed him. Kenny flipped out and was going to kill her no matter what, so in the moment of deciding I sided with Jane. In the situation before me then and there Kenny was in the wrong.
Kenny was dangerous to be around because he showed no critical thinking, wouldn't budge from his ideas alone and made rash decisions. Look at the point were Walter was killed because Kenny wouldn't give himself up for instance.
As for Kenny being caustic, he was always calling people names and being difficult, I can't remember an argument in Season 2 that Kenny was involved with! He was always making comments against Luke, trying to make you side with him- often using the 'we're old mates' card on Clem (usually at these points I'd fence sit and try and hopefully make things work out later). He kept calling out at Luke for 'running away' and not staying to fight, Kenny got Walter killed.
In episode 3 in that van he was basically calling everyone else a pussy for not wanting to fight armed people with nothing but their fists and a can-do attitude- he did not think of consequences. He might have been a nice guy.
As for stuff I missed, well I agree that the 'better' (more emotionally fulfilling) ending is at Wellington (I've already said that). His reasoning was off though, he wasn't just some depressed man, he was a dangerous man to the group, his attitude drove people off, to the point were they try and sneak away from him. He wasn't a nice man to be around anymore. He might have had reasons in his head, but they WEREN'T legitimate (if anything the facts prove otherwise! Jane was simply being manipulative with the baby, and Kenny himself wasn't above trying to manipulate you with the 'Lee' card).
Also Jane tells him to back off and puts her knife away before Kenny goes at her... it's much easier if you read that post by someone else. Jane though was trying to show Clementine how Kenny lacks any critical thought, he latches onto an idea and aggressively enforces it on those around him. Even when you directly disagree with him he gets very angry about it, and that's from since Season 1, all we saw was a progression into being more violent (I don't think Kenny from Season 1 would have beaten Arvo like he does in Season 2).
Also, a similar situation is presented to you earlier in episode 5 by him beating Arvo- he doesn't see the supplies or a well made house as he expected and immediately assumes Arvo has been lying to them and starts beating him. Even when he's shown the supplies he's still incredibly aggressive to Arvo (again, not condoning Arvo and his group but then Kenny is coming off worse at that point still). As for Arvo 'killing' Luke I can't agree with that, that was the ice breaking beneath him- Arvo running off is perfectly understandable, if worrying at the time for us.
Like I said, of course the examples are from No Going Back- that's Kenny at his WORST, it's a progression. If he was like that from the start I'd have left him from the start. He had become a danger as the story went on. (Kenny also didn't punch my Clem).
Also, Luke loses everyone from his group by No Going Back, and he doesn't get even half as bad as Kenny from Season 1, Jane has lost her sister, but becomes distant. The closest someone really comes to going down the path of Kenny is Nick- though he dies sadly way to early.
Yeah he went off at her because it made sense to him- but that is not a legitimate reason to kill someone.
I never said it was, I ju… morest said that Jane´s attitude made plausible for him that she killed AJ and that Kenny just lashed out baselessly is plainly wrong.
And Comintern1919 was describing the sort of thing Kenny should have come to the conclusion to, not 'baby killer!'
Even if Comintern mean that, which he clearly doesn´t, Kenny has enougth reasons to come to that conclusion, like I already said.
Kenny's attitude throughout the season was just getting worse and worse Kenny's attitude throughout the season was just getting worse and worse. Naturally in the last episode you'd expect him to be at his worst (not that it wasn't without reason, Sarita's death, the mangling Carver gave him). He was constantly caustic throughout the season and there were even a couple weird tense moments in episode 2
This is … [view original content]
I could understand not trusting Jane after the ending, but I still dont understand how you could ever go with Kenny. Youre going to be stuck… more with him and him alone for the rest of your life unless you abandon him at some point. He doesnt get along with anyone except Sarita, who I honestly think might have been a bit touched in the head.
I hear that.
I honestly do find it ridiculous to have to defend my choices, all made in a videogame.
Yeah I made choices, in how I wanted to play the game.
But is just a videogame.
Not to start an argument but she didn't try to kill Kenny. She felt that her point was proven when Kenny came back accusing her of being a baby killer even after she said it wasn't intentional. Not only that but Kenny had no honest idea that Aj was even dead. He just assumed. That's why Jane put her knife away and told Kenny to stay away from her. Clem saw what Jane wanted her to see. Jane was hoping that would be enough to convince Clem to leave with her. I'm sure Jane expected a fight which is why she took her knife out in the first place. Maybe she was hoping that the sight of it would intimidate Ken and it seemed like it did. But like I said earlier she put it back up because her point had been proven, at least to her. Next she wanted to get Clem and get out of there but things really started going south. Kenny attacked Jane, not the other way around lol. Kenny wanted Jane dead, not the other way around lol. Once the fight made its way outside that's when it seems Jane was actually trying to kill Kenny. Yes Jane is to blame though. She screwed up big time but we've seen one other character in particular cause far worse damage. Anyone remember a certain screw up from the first season that got 3 people killed?
Well I did kill Ken because he was miserable and wanted to die. I felt that it was time for him to finally have peace. Yeah he did scare off the group but they're living in an apocalypse. I've never experienced such an event. Have you? That being said let's give Ken a break.
So many people back up Kenny lol.
The sensible thing to do would be kill Kenny. He literally drove away the remainder of the group and fuck… moreed everything up.
Like Mike and Bonnie said, it was Kenny's fault that Arvo ran on the ice, causing panic and Luke's death.
Everyone in the group besides Clementine and Sarita basically hated Kenny, and for good reason. He wasn't the cool guy back in Season 1, and even back then he was a prick.
Arguing with Kenny fans is a lost cause. I loved Kenny and cried when i had to put him down, but these Kenny fans are really making me hate his character.
Jane was actually one of my favorite characters. But the fact that she lied, or even implied that the baby was dead just to get Kenny to sna… morep so Clem would go with her...I have no sympathy for her at all. That was manipulative, and she knew that Kenny would lose it if the baby was dead, hell I was losing it when I thought she let the baby die. For this reason I let Kenny kill her, I would have shot her myself if I had the option to be honest. Then we learn that the baby was safe and hidden, all because she wanted to make Clem turn on Kenny and come with her to be what her sister Jaime could not. She explicitly said she wants Clem to see what Kenny really is, as if I was going to choose someone I'd only known for 2 days, someone who abandoned Clem once already, for someone who Clem has known for years, someone who albeit does have a bad temper, but would never ever abandon Clem, and would always protect her with his life. Jane's plan backfired… [view original content]
Well, pretty much as soon as Jane poked Kenny's eyes and slashed his stomach there was " No Going Back." Kenny most likely would still have tried to kill Jane after that point.
Just to redeem herself, he didn't want Clementine, he wanted His Sister 2.0, a more obedient version that even kills the people she pisses off for the sake of it.
That would suck. At this point, I just want a new protagonist. What's the point of choosing the season 2 ending if telltale is just gonna force us to the same point in season 3.
That's hilariously disproved by Jane letting people in to Howe's if you don't make a decision...
I do fear that TellTale will do somethin… moreg horrible in order to move Clem to Wellington... And by something horrible I mean destroy Jane's character and all the changes that occurred during season 2, in order to force Clem to Wellington.
When Jane first enters the rest stop, she is hunched over, as though she's holding herself together, she has a forlorn expression on her face and doesn't even answer Kenny's question. But the minute Kenny leaves, all signs of that sadness vanish, she immediately rights herself and is back to her stoic self when she speaks to Clem. She was faking the whole time. And then she says "whatever happens, stay out of it...you're going to see what he really is." I knew then that Jane's intentions were not from a good place, that she had something sinister planned, that she wasn't telling the truth.
So many people back up Kenny lol.
The sensible thing to do would be kill Kenny. He literally drove away the remainder of the group and fuck… moreed everything up.
Like Mike and Bonnie said, it was Kenny's fault that Arvo ran on the ice, causing panic and Luke's death.
Everyone in the group besides Clementine and Sarita basically hated Kenny, and for good reason. He wasn't the cool guy back in Season 1, and even back then he was a prick.
I agree with you. For me, the difference between Kenny and Jane was that Kenny was family to me. Kenny would gladly sacrifice himself for the ones he care about. The guy already got his eye beaten out of him to save my life. I wasn't about to shoot him. Horribly emotional and romantic of me, but that's why I picked Kenny. It wasn't about logic.
What a needlessly provocative thread title.
Personally I thought every scene from the 'house' onwards showed just how unstable and danger… moreous both of them are. Kenny was a bomb waiting to go off, and clearly capable of anything, even trying to shame Clem's lack of bloodlust when she doesn't like him beating Arvo to a pulp. Meanwhile Jane was manipulative and just as ruthless, just as vicious as Kenny in the fight, and forces Clem to shoot him if you save her. She claims she never meant it to go that far, but wasn't that the point of her little stunt - to prove just what Kenny was capable of? She also risked the baby's life.
Neither of them seems to be in the right in my opinion.
I'd say they were as bad as each other, and my decision in the end was that Kenny more dangerous out of the two of them to be with.
I literally can´t believe this, but okay, is just your opinion. Let me just say that even Kenny´s worse mistakes don´t compare to Jane´s little stun.
HOWEVER! At the point Kenny is going to kill Jane all you KNOW (wish I could do italics here, I'm not shouting, just emphasising) is that the baby was killed accidentally- only with hindsight do you find out that she hadn't killed him.
There are number reasons why you can figure of Jane is lying before that: Jane seems shocked when she enters the Rest Stop, yet drops that attitude the second Kenny goes outside, she practically confess that to Clem and her response when Kenny is stabbing her and screams I fucking will you, which is I knew you would.
Kenny flipped out and was going to kill her no matter what, so in the moment of deciding I sided with Jane. In the situation before me then and there Kenny was in the wrong.
No true. He throws the first punch and charges her against the wall but Jane is the first who makes a lethal moment, which is slashing Kenny across the stomach.
Kenny was dangerous to be around because he showed no critical thinking
This is only your opinion.
wouldn't budge from his ideas alone and made rash decisions.
This is true, but still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
Look at the point were Walter was killed because Kenny wouldn't give himself up for instance.
At that moment, Kenny had no reason to think Carver couldn´t just kill him if he gave himself up.
As for Kenny being caustic, he was always calling people names and being difficult, I can't remember an argument in Season 2 that Kenny was involved with!
In No Going Back, no all season 2.
He was always making comments against Luke
Nope. Asking Clem if she trusts him with is life is hardly coomenthing agaist him, and in the truck he had no reason to think Luke didn´t just run away.
often using the 'we're old mates' card on Clem
No.
He kept calling out at Luke for 'running away' and not staying to fight,
Once, only once in the truck, and like I said hehad no reason to think Luke didn´t just run away.
Kenny got Walter killed.
At that moment, Kenny had no reason to think Carver couldn´t just kill him if he gave himself up.
In episode 3 in that van he was basically calling everyone else a pussy for not wanting to fight armed people with nothing but their fists and a can-do attitude- he did not think of consequences. He might have been a nice guy.
He didn´t have any reason to think Carver couldn´t just publicity kill them in front of his community to make an example, so while the plan was reckless in doesn´t change that the alternative was worst.
As for stuff I missed, well I agree that the 'better' (more emotionally fulfilling) ending is at Wellington (I've already said that).
I never said this. Please, actually read what I have written.
His reasoning was off though, he wasn't just some depressed man, he was a dangerous man to the group, his attitude drove people off, to the point were they try and sneak away from him. He wasn't a nice man to be around anymore.
I think that the betrayal of Bonnie and Mike was stupid, but yes, is true, he drove them away with his actitude. Doesn´t change that what Jane did was worse.
He might have had reasons in his head, but they WEREN'T legitimate
They are. That Jane didn´t kill the baby doesn´t mean he was not justified in thinking that.
if anything the facts prove otherwise! Jane was simply being manipulative with the baby, and Kenny himself wasn't above trying to manipulate you with the 'Lee' card).
'Simply being manipulative with the baby', you say. This is showing a clear bias. What Jane did was horribly, and manipulative in too many different levels. Kenny was just trying to explain to Clem his reasons, and why he wanted to look for Wellington despite everything, not pull the 'Lee card'. And even if that was a case of manipulation, what Jane does is clearly worse in every level.
Also Jane tells him to back off and puts her knife away before Kenny goes at her... it's much easier if you read that post by someone else. Jane though was trying to show Clementine how Kenny lacks any critical thought, he latches onto an idea and aggressively enforces it on those around him. Even when you directly disagree with him he gets very angry about it, and that's from since Season 1, all we saw was a progression into being more violent (I don't think Kenny from Season 1 would have beaten Arvo like he does in Season 2).
You didn´t actually adress any of the points I made agaist Jane, you just pulled a stock pro-Jane argument withouth taking into a account anything of what I said. So, I going to qoute mysel here, again:
She lies about the baby´s death when Kenny had just lost Sarita less that two days ago fully knowing it could provoke him into a fight, which she could have stopped but didn´t, and was the first one to go for the kill by slashing Kenny´s stomach. Kenny doesn´t know if Jane killed AJ, but he had legitimate reasons to think so, so while it doesn´t make it right he is not wrong either, and because Jane says that we are going to see Kenny for who he really is the players know Jane is lying. You are just simplifying the reasons for the fight and the fight for your own benefit. We don’t justify murder in anyway, but Jane pushed Kenny into the fight, Jane could have stopped everything, and she demonstrated that she only worries about her own interest by the whole plan so to shot Kenny because of Jane´s mistakes is more wrong that letting Kenny kill her. Name one time that he screams am- except at Clem right after losing Sarita-or threatens anybody except in No Going Back. The only examples you give are straight for No Going Back, at are justifiable. First, Kenny doesn´t punch Clem, his elbows hit’s her in the face because she was just being him when he was punching Arvo. Second, he only hits him a few times so it’s hardly a beating or a mauling.
Also, a similar situation is presented to you earlier in episode 5 by him beating Arvo- he doesn't see the supplies or a well made house as he expected and immediately assumes Arvo has been lying to them and starts beating him.
Similar situation to what? The Kenny vs Jane figth? I remind you that she intended to have Kenny lash out so she could kill him, so that makes your comparison quite shaky.
Even when he's shown the supplies he's still incredibly aggressive to Arvo.
And? It still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
As for Arvo 'killing' Luke I can't agree with that, that was the ice breaking beneath him- Arvo running off is perfectly understandable, if worrying at the time for us.
You can´t say that Arvo running in a ice lake didn´t worsen the situation, regardless of the reasons he ran off.
Like I said, of course the examples are from No Going Back- that's Kenny at his WORST, it's a progression.
And? It still doesn´t justify what Jane did, and that the only examples are from No Going Back, considering everything he has be through, show that Kenny is a good man at heart.
Also, Luke loses everyone from his group by No Going Back, and he doesn't get even half as bad as Kenny from Season 1.
You are ignoring that Luke mostly loses friends, and that all his loses are fairly spread out, but Kenny loses its entire family in a matter of hours.
Jane has lost her sister, but becomes distant.
Is more that becoming distant. She adopts the mentality that she doesn´t need anybody because they would drag her down, is perfectly okay with leaving Sarah to die and is unstable enougth to pull the whole 'AJ is dead' thing instead of taking a more reasonable choice.
The closest someone really comes to going down the path of Kenny is Nick- though he dies sadly way to early.
I fail to see what Nick has to do with all of this, considering that neither Nick nor his situation is remotely similar to Kenny´s.
I'd say they were as bad as each other, and my decision in the end was that Kenny more dangerous out of the two of them to be with.
HOWEV… moreER! At the point Kenny is going to kill Jane all you KNOW (wish I could do italics here, I'm not shouting, just emphasising) is that the baby was killed accidentally- only with hindsight do you find out that she hadn't killed him. Kenny flipped out and was going to kill her no matter what, so in the moment of deciding I sided with Jane. In the situation before me then and there Kenny was in the wrong.
Kenny was dangerous to be around because he showed no critical thinking, wouldn't budge from his ideas alone and made rash decisions. Look at the point were Walter was killed because Kenny wouldn't give himself up for instance.
As for Kenny being caustic, he was always calling people names and being difficult, I can't remember an argument in Season 2 that Kenny was involved with! He was always making c… [view original content]
There's actually 3. You forgot the kid. Which coincidently is the same amount of group members in one of Kenny's endings. Except in Jane's endings they actually have a place to stay and aren't stuck in the middle of the alpines during winter.
You obviously preferred Kenny to most others here, which is your prerogative, for me, he was a danger to the group and as a whole. I didn't like killing him (and will admit the ending at Wellington is much better), but in teh situation I was presented, he was the worst of the two options.
Like I said, a balanced look at the situation is done in the link I did a few post above. Something it seems you aren't content with but whatever.
I'd say they were as bad as each other, and my decision in the end was that Kenny more dangerous out of the two of them to be with.
… moreI literally can´t believe this, but okay, is just your opinion. Let me just say that even Kenny´s worse mistakes don´t compare to Jane´s little stun.
HOWEVER! At the point Kenny is going to kill Jane all you KNOW (wish I could do italics here, I'm not shouting, just emphasising) is that the baby was killed accidentally- only with hindsight do you find out that she hadn't killed him.
There are number reasons why you can figure of Jane is lying before that: Jane seems shocked when she enters the Rest Stop, yet drops that attitude the second Kenny goes outside, she practically confess that to Clem and her response when Kenny is stabbing her and screams I fucking will you, which is I knew you would.
Kenny flipped out and was going to kill her no matter what, so in the moment of deciding I… [view original content]
You obviously preferred Kenny to most others here, which is your prerogative, for me, he was a danger to the group and as a whole.
I don’t favor Kenny, I said that what Jane did is fucked up, that she is fucked and even the worse of Kenny´s mistakes don´t compare to her plan.
I already provided points against your 'Kenny is illogical and reckless' examples, against the other shit you throw against Kenny, and you didn´t answer them. It has nothing to do with your opinion, but that you are not even trying to defend yourself when you started this.
but in teh situation I was presented, he was the worst of the two options.
Well, that´s like, your opinion, man.
didn't like killing him (and will admit the ending at Wellington is much better)
Like I said, I never said that the Wellington ending is better. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.
Like I said, a balanced look at the situation is done in the link I did a few post above. Something it seems you aren't content with but whatever.
I course I am not content with that. You respond agaist my response and you expect that I leave the discussion just because you link me to a tread that says 'both are at fault', which is something I never denied? Seriously?
Ok, done here.
You obviously preferred Kenny to most others here, which is your prerogative, for me, he was a danger to the group and as … morea whole. I didn't like killing him (and will admit the ending at Wellington is much better), but in teh situation I was presented, he was the worst of the two options.
Like I said, a balanced look at the situation is done in the link I did a few post above. Something it seems you aren't content with but whatever.
Done and out here.
You ain't here for a debate but a shouting match. You win, well done. I'm out.
Take that thread how you like or not, but it reflect how I feel, hence why I brought it up, not for shits and giggles. I's good, and I'd recommend all to read it.
You obviously preferred Kenny to most others here, which is your prerogative, for me, he was a danger to the group and as a whole.
I… more don’t favor Kenny, I said that what Jane did is fucked up, that she is fucked and even the worse of Kenny´s mistakes don´t compare to her plan.
I already provided points against your 'Kenny is illogical and reckless' examples, against the other shit you throw against Kenny, and you didn´t answer them. It has nothing to do with your opinion, but that you are not even trying to defend yourself when you started this.
but in teh situation I was presented, he was the worst of the two options.
Well, that´s like, your opinion, man.
didn't like killing him (and will admit the ending at Wellington is much better)
Like I said, I never said that the Wellington ending is better. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.
Like I said, a balanced look at the situation is done in the l… [view original content]
Jane didn't plan to fight Kenny to death, that's the whole point why it wasn't dangerous for the baby. She had to make a decision to get Clem away from Kenny or to leave Clem with him. She didn't expect him to be that loose, but he was and she underestimated him.
It is dangerous when you leave a baby alone with you the only one knowing it's existence, she was seconds away from death, she could've ended it all and saved herself, the baby and even Kenny. Yeah she already proved a point, she already showed Clem he was crazy but instead of putting it to an end, she decided to drag it out to the point where someone would lose their life. Clearly she had a hidden agenda, it wasn't to prove anything, it was to get rid of someone. The only thing she underestimated is that Kenny was more powerful and she arrogantly thought she could beat him.
They didn't go south initially because they were ambushed by the russians (remember?) and then they were led by Arvo who promised food (because they were running low). The choice to go back to Howe, Texas, Wellington or wherever didn't even come up until they had a functional car because they never would have had the supplies to go there by foot. They didn't even know what Wellington actually was about and if they will be safe there, so it was more rational to go back to Howe or south in general (because of the climate). It's not hard to see that they thought of it as the obsessive illusion of a madman.
They decided to go Wellington before they were ambushed, Howe's hardware was a lot closer but Bonnie thought it be best to mention her idea 2 days later and she was odds with Mike who was the only one that wanted to go to Texas. What if Arvo's group didn't attack them? You're telling me a group attack made them change their plan? If it was more rational to go back to Howe or Texas then why didn't they mention this before at the place where Rebecca gave birth? Instead they waste time & energy to go to a place they were unsure about and then give a suggestion two days later. They didn't come up with it or say it when it really mattered and then it was already too late. Mike & Bonnie's plan was just as crazy yet you're acting like it was better than Kenny's plan just because you don't like Kenny.
I didn't say it's bad that Kenny cares about the baby, I said he didn't care about anything else (my Kenny shot Rebecca with ease after she turned, cold even without flinching). After the baby was born, everything Kenny did was for the baby only, no matter how stupid and irrational because he got obsessed with it.
It seems you're running out of arguments as this is a weak attempt to make Kenny look bad. So Kenny shoots a Zombie that was seconds away from eating a baby and suddenly this is a sign of a crazy man because he saved a baby from it's reanimated mother? Really? what did you want Kenny to do? Pause and take time out to remember Rebecca as she's chowing down on a baby? And are you seriously telling me that Kenny deciding to go to Wellington was just for the baby only and not the others?
The lake scene is especially enlightening because he preferred to run behind Arvo to beat the shit out of him instead of caring about Clem or any other group member (not even the baby). What's the deal if that cripple boy runs away in that situation? They were at the supposed house with supplies anyway. Kenny didn't give a shit because he was fully engaged in rage mode. I never said that he was Carver 2.0 as Carver was a much different person more interested in building up stable groups (with violence and fear) instead of splitting them. He actually thought a lot about group integrity, although his behavior was obviously questionable.
What's the deal? what if there were guns in that house and the prisoner runs away and Kenny doesn't go after him? the prisoner will use the guns to shoot at them. If you had a prisoner that was part of a bandit group that attacked you and he decided to make a run for it, do you not think that could be dangerous as the prisoner may come back for revenge and the next time he could be armed & dangerous? Remember that prisoner in Shel's story, what happens when they let him go? That's right, he comes back and kills one of the group members. What else was he supposed to do for Clementine? If the ice can't hold a little girl, what makes you think it'll hold Kenny who is more heavier?
I just say that Kenny turned into an unpredictable madman that is driven by emotional outbursts that will kill innocent people sooner or later. That's what Jane saw and everyone else, including (my) Clem, as well. At this point it doesn't matter what Kenny may have been in the past or how much good he has done, because in his present state he was dangerous.
And this part, people like you whether they're Jane fans, Lilly fans or Kenny haters will say he'll kill an innocent person but not once has he ever attempted to harm an innocent person but you base it on little outbursts. Dangerous? Who was he a danger to? did he harm anyone in the group and don't count Jane as she was asking for danger. In his present state, he took a beating for Clem & saved a baby but it seems this is overlooked.
Jane didn't plan to fight Kenny to death, that's the whole point why it wasn't dangerous for the baby. She had to make a decision to get Cle… morem away from Kenny or to leave Clem with him. She didn't expect him to be that loose, but he was and she underestimated him.
They didn't go south initially because they were ambushed by the russians (remember?) and then they were led by Arvo who promised food (because they were running low). The choice to go back to Howe, Texas, Wellington or wherever didn't even come up until they had a functional car because they never would have had the supplies to go there by foot. They didn't even know what Wellington actually was about and if they will be safe there, so it was more rational to go back to Howe or south in general (because of the climate). It's not hard to see that they thought of it as the obsessive illusion of a madman.
I didn't say it's bad that Kenny cares about the baby, I said he didn't car… [view original content]
Here's what I've noticed this passed week during this whole debate.
Those who sided with Jane "I hated doing it but I couldn't sit back a… morend watch him kill her. She made a mistake but that doesn't mean she deserved to die. So stopped Kenny from becoming a murderer and his last dying breath to me was thank you for stopping him.... I hated doing it but he left me no choice"
Those who sided with Kenny "Fuck that bitch Jane all she wanted was an excuse to kill Kenny and win Clem's favor (ignoring that he's bigger than her and she could've just slit his throat in his sleep) my only regret is that I couldn't have killed her myself for what she did"
I have yet to see a Pro Jane person say what she did was right. But Boyo I have lost count of the "Kenny did no wrong" mentality.
Edit: OOPS my bad. I see I'm responding to one of those pro Kenny peeps.
Pretend I didn't say anything.
You ain't here for a debate but a shouting match. You win, well done. I'm out.
Take that thread how you like or not, but it reflect how I feel, hence why I brought it up, not for shits and giggles. I's good, and I'd recommend all to read it.
You fight with your knife until there is a short pause. You put away the knife and say it was an accident. But as soon as you finished the sentence, Kenny attacks you again. You defend yourself until Kenny get's the upper hand and holds a knife to your threat. You try to reason with Kenny, but it's too late, and he kills you.
I replayed that scene thrice and from my point of view that's not how it happened. By the way let me tell this first, I actually liked Jane from the begining. But in that particular scene she was wrong in many ways. Jane pulled out her knife, which was a mistake, yes she was in self defense but that only made things worse. Pulling a weapon in a fight shows lethal intent, and that rarely ends up well, unless you are certain the person on the other side can be easily intimidated. She should have known Kenny by now. When she put away the knife there was actually a pause, but instead of using that brief moment to try and calm Kenny, she goaded him and caused an already infuriated Kenny to attack her. When Clem pulled him off her, she started to attack him while he was on the ground, she stabbed him, gouged his wound, she didn't look like she had any intention of backing down, or try to reason with him.
I tried to stop her, I tried to warn her not to push him, but she wouldn't listen. It looked to me as if she was trying to find a way to get rid of Kenny while not making herself guilty in Clem's eyes. So that she could replace the sister she had lost, that she had wronged (in her eyes) but her attempt to do that was incredibly flawed.
Man, I have written so often what's wrong with defending Kenny, it get's annoying.
I wonder how many who defend Kenny's Action at the end… more actually watched the ending where you kill him even once. He says she made the right choice, that he let her down, that she is better without him. I actually like Kenny just for realizing himself he made a mistake. Can you really argue with the man himself?
I'd really love if those that say Kenny was right to image the following: You are Jane, but unlike what happened, you really lost the Baby. While trying to get away from Walkers, you tripped over a stone. Remember there was a storm and the sight was extremely low. So you fall down and the Baby fell out of your hands. You are out of your senses for a second. You open your Eyes, try to grab the Baby, and before you do, a walker comes and grabs the Baby before you do. You do your best to stand up as fast as possible, but you realize it's too late, an… [view original content]
There's actually 3. You forgot the kid. Which coincidently is the same amount of group members in one of Kenny's endings. Except in Jane's endings they actually have a place to stay and aren't stuck in the middle of the alpines during winter.
Holy shit lady! She wanted to make Kenny think that the baby was dead so she could watch him get angry. When she told me to stay out of it I did and she got what she deserved by dying!
If the situation was real, she had every reason to be shocked and not able to answer the question properly, which is exactly how she acted. … moreKenny had no reason to believe anything else, but he decided to believe that Jane murdered AJ before actually making sure what happened. This is just like when they got to the house and Kenny started beating Arvo for nothing. Kenny is too impatient to make sure whats going on before acting.
Comments
No, I dont think he is.
I never said it was, I just said that Jane´s attitude made plausible for him that she killed AJ and that Kenny just lashed out baselessly is plainly wrong.
Even if Comintern mean that, which he clearly doesn´t, Kenny has enougth reasons to come to that conclusion, like I already said.
This is just wrong. Kenny´s actitude worsens because of Sarita´s death, that he has to survive with the people that indirectly caused the situation that got her killed in the first place, and the beating doesn´t inmedialy worsens his attitude, even if it contributes to this attitude in No Going Back. All of Kenny´s questionable actions are in No Going Back.
Name one time that he was like that except just after the death of Sarita or in No Going Back.
Name just one moment.
She asks what he what he is like because he had not told her his past, not because she thinks there´s something wrong with him.
You ignored a lot of my first post, and you do the same to my second post. Here are some qoutes that you don´t adress for both posts:
I honestly can´t believe this:
What made you think that I was trying to argue that Kenny was full rigth? I trying to argue that Jane did more wrong in that situation, not that Kenny didn´t make mistakes.
I fail to see how you could say this.
This hardly justifies doing what Jane did.
But you are siding with a woman that deliberately pushed a broken man over the edge so she can kill him? Okay.
Kenny wanted Lee to murder Clementines friend. Is that how friends act?
So many people back up Kenny lol.
The sensible thing to do would be kill Kenny. He literally drove away the remainder of the group and fucked everything up.
Like Mike and Bonnie said, it was Kenny's fault that Arvo ran on the ice, causing panic and Luke's death.
Everyone in the group besides Clementine and Sarita basically hated Kenny, and for good reason. He wasn't the cool guy back in Season 1, and even back then he was a prick.
Kenny got in heated arguments with almost everyone he met with. He lost his family, so did everyone else in the group.
anybody knows the recent stats for shooting kenny???i can't access the game
I could understand not trusting Jane after the ending, but I still dont understand how you could ever go with Kenny. Youre going to be stuck with him and him alone for the rest of your life unless you abandon him at some point. He doesnt get along with anyone except Sarita, who I honestly think might have been a bit touched in the head.
I'd say they were as bad as each other, and my decision in the end was that Kenny more dangerous out of the two of them to be with.
HOWEVER! At the point Kenny is going to kill Jane all you KNOW (wish I could do italics here, I'm not shouting, just emphasising) is that the baby was killed accidentally- only with hindsight do you find out that she hadn't killed him. Kenny flipped out and was going to kill her no matter what, so in the moment of deciding I sided with Jane. In the situation before me then and there Kenny was in the wrong.
Kenny was dangerous to be around because he showed no critical thinking, wouldn't budge from his ideas alone and made rash decisions. Look at the point were Walter was killed because Kenny wouldn't give himself up for instance.
As for Kenny being caustic, he was always calling people names and being difficult, I can't remember an argument in Season 2 that Kenny was involved with! He was always making comments against Luke, trying to make you side with him- often using the 'we're old mates' card on Clem (usually at these points I'd fence sit and try and hopefully make things work out later). He kept calling out at Luke for 'running away' and not staying to fight, Kenny got Walter killed.
In episode 3 in that van he was basically calling everyone else a pussy for not wanting to fight armed people with nothing but their fists and a can-do attitude- he did not think of consequences. He might have been a nice guy.
As for stuff I missed, well I agree that the 'better' (more emotionally fulfilling) ending is at Wellington (I've already said that). His reasoning was off though, he wasn't just some depressed man, he was a dangerous man to the group, his attitude drove people off, to the point were they try and sneak away from him. He wasn't a nice man to be around anymore. He might have had reasons in his head, but they WEREN'T legitimate (if anything the facts prove otherwise! Jane was simply being manipulative with the baby, and Kenny himself wasn't above trying to manipulate you with the 'Lee' card).
Also Jane tells him to back off and puts her knife away before Kenny goes at her... it's much easier if you read that post by someone else. Jane though was trying to show Clementine how Kenny lacks any critical thought, he latches onto an idea and aggressively enforces it on those around him. Even when you directly disagree with him he gets very angry about it, and that's from since Season 1, all we saw was a progression into being more violent (I don't think Kenny from Season 1 would have beaten Arvo like he does in Season 2).
Also, a similar situation is presented to you earlier in episode 5 by him beating Arvo- he doesn't see the supplies or a well made house as he expected and immediately assumes Arvo has been lying to them and starts beating him. Even when he's shown the supplies he's still incredibly aggressive to Arvo (again, not condoning Arvo and his group but then Kenny is coming off worse at that point still). As for Arvo 'killing' Luke I can't agree with that, that was the ice breaking beneath him- Arvo running off is perfectly understandable, if worrying at the time for us.
Like I said, of course the examples are from No Going Back- that's Kenny at his WORST, it's a progression. If he was like that from the start I'd have left him from the start. He had become a danger as the story went on. (Kenny also didn't punch my Clem).
Also, Luke loses everyone from his group by No Going Back, and he doesn't get even half as bad as Kenny from Season 1, Jane has lost her sister, but becomes distant. The closest someone really comes to going down the path of Kenny is Nick- though he dies sadly way to early.
i can't understand anyone trusting jane...after watching both jane's ending....yeah...seems like there would be 2 people in a group....
lonely group.
Exactly.
Not to start an argument but she didn't try to kill Kenny. She felt that her point was proven when Kenny came back accusing her of being a baby killer even after she said it wasn't intentional. Not only that but Kenny had no honest idea that Aj was even dead. He just assumed. That's why Jane put her knife away and told Kenny to stay away from her. Clem saw what Jane wanted her to see. Jane was hoping that would be enough to convince Clem to leave with her. I'm sure Jane expected a fight which is why she took her knife out in the first place. Maybe she was hoping that the sight of it would intimidate Ken and it seemed like it did. But like I said earlier she put it back up because her point had been proven, at least to her. Next she wanted to get Clem and get out of there but things really started going south. Kenny attacked Jane, not the other way around lol. Kenny wanted Jane dead, not the other way around lol. Once the fight made its way outside that's when it seems Jane was actually trying to kill Kenny. Yes Jane is to blame though. She screwed up big time but we've seen one other character in particular cause far worse damage. Anyone remember a certain screw up from the first season that got 3 people killed?
Well I did kill Ken because he was miserable and wanted to die. I felt that it was time for him to finally have peace. Yeah he did scare off the group but they're living in an apocalypse. I've never experienced such an event. Have you? That being said let's give Ken a break.
As a Kenny hater from Season 1 - I feel the need to say I was a Kenny Redeemer in season 2 (trying to fix him was my #1 priority)
That said...
I shot Kenny, because at the time it seemed to be the thing to do - afterwards... I'm regretting it.
Murderer or Killer, you're screwed either way.
This thread is flame war bait, i needed to post this
Arguing with Kenny fans is a lost cause. I loved Kenny and cried when i had to put him down, but these Kenny fans are really making me hate his character.
How did you known Jane hid the baby before it was revealed? I do respect your loyalty to Kenny; its actually a good reason to keep Kenny alive.
Well, pretty much as soon as Jane poked Kenny's eyes and slashed his stomach there was " No Going Back." Kenny most likely would still have tried to kill Jane after that point.
But Kenny wanted Duck 2.0 in Clementine.
That would suck. At this point, I just want a new protagonist. What's the point of choosing the season 2 ending if telltale is just gonna force us to the same point in season 3.
When Jane first enters the rest stop, she is hunched over, as though she's holding herself together, she has a forlorn expression on her face and doesn't even answer Kenny's question. But the minute Kenny leaves, all signs of that sadness vanish, she immediately rights herself and is back to her stoic self when she speaks to Clem. She was faking the whole time. And then she says "whatever happens, stay out of it...you're going to see what he really is." I knew then that Jane's intentions were not from a good place, that she had something sinister planned, that she wasn't telling the truth.
And some of the Clems only didn't hate Kenny, because it wasn't an option.
I agree with you. For me, the difference between Kenny and Jane was that Kenny was family to me. Kenny would gladly sacrifice himself for the ones he care about. The guy already got his eye beaten out of him to save my life. I wasn't about to shoot him. Horribly emotional and romantic of me, but that's why I picked Kenny. It wasn't about logic.
I literally can´t believe this, but okay, is just your opinion. Let me just say that even Kenny´s worse mistakes don´t compare to Jane´s little stun.
There are number reasons why you can figure of Jane is lying before that: Jane seems shocked when she enters the Rest Stop, yet drops that attitude the second Kenny goes outside, she practically confess that to Clem and her response when Kenny is stabbing her and screams I fucking will you, which is I knew you would.
No true. He throws the first punch and charges her against the wall but Jane is the first who makes a lethal moment, which is slashing Kenny across the stomach.
This is only your opinion.
This is true, but still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
At that moment, Kenny had no reason to think Carver couldn´t just kill him if he gave himself up.
In No Going Back, no all season 2.
Nope. Asking Clem if she trusts him with is life is hardly coomenthing agaist him, and in the truck he had no reason to think Luke didn´t just run away.
No.
Once, only once in the truck, and like I said hehad no reason to think Luke didn´t just run away.
At that moment, Kenny had no reason to think Carver couldn´t just kill him if he gave himself up.
He didn´t have any reason to think Carver couldn´t just publicity kill them in front of his community to make an example, so while the plan was reckless in doesn´t change that the alternative was worst.
I never said this. Please, actually read what I have written.
I think that the betrayal of Bonnie and Mike was stupid, but yes, is true, he drove them away with his actitude. Doesn´t change that what Jane did was worse.
They are. That Jane didn´t kill the baby doesn´t mean he was not justified in thinking that.
'Simply being manipulative with the baby', you say. This is showing a clear bias. What Jane did was horribly, and manipulative in too many different levels. Kenny was just trying to explain to Clem his reasons, and why he wanted to look for Wellington despite everything, not pull the 'Lee card'. And even if that was a case of manipulation, what Jane does is clearly worse in every level.
You didn´t actually adress any of the points I made agaist Jane, you just pulled a stock pro-Jane argument withouth taking into a account anything of what I said. So, I going to qoute mysel here, again:
Similar situation to what? The Kenny vs Jane figth? I remind you that she intended to have Kenny lash out so she could kill him, so that makes your comparison quite shaky.
And? It still doesn´t justify what Jane did.
You can´t say that Arvo running in a ice lake didn´t worsen the situation, regardless of the reasons he ran off.
And? It still doesn´t justify what Jane did, and that the only examples are from No Going Back, considering everything he has be through, show that Kenny is a good man at heart.
You are ignoring that Luke mostly loses friends, and that all his loses are fairly spread out, but Kenny loses its entire family in a matter of hours.
Is more that becoming distant. She adopts the mentality that she doesn´t need anybody because they would drag her down, is perfectly okay with leaving Sarah to die and is unstable enougth to pull the whole 'AJ is dead' thing instead of taking a more reasonable choice.
I fail to see what Nick has to do with all of this, considering that neither Nick nor his situation is remotely similar to Kenny´s.
"(Kenny) has always had the best interests of the group at heart, even if the way he tries to get his message across could use a little finesse" - OP
Sounds like a certain someone who got his face bashed in with a crowbar.
There's actually 3. You forgot the kid. Which coincidently is the same amount of group members in one of Kenny's endings. Except in Jane's endings they actually have a place to stay and aren't stuck in the middle of the alpines during winter.
I finished my game 12 hours ago. It was 64% of players shot Kenny.
lol I like this.
Ok, done here.
You obviously preferred Kenny to most others here, which is your prerogative, for me, he was a danger to the group and as a whole. I didn't like killing him (and will admit the ending at Wellington is much better), but in teh situation I was presented, he was the worst of the two options.
Like I said, a balanced look at the situation is done in the link I did a few post above. Something it seems you aren't content with but whatever.
Done and out here.
I don’t favor Kenny, I said that what Jane did is fucked up, that she is fucked and even the worse of Kenny´s mistakes don´t compare to her plan.
I already provided points against your 'Kenny is illogical and reckless' examples, against the other shit you throw against Kenny, and you didn´t answer them. It has nothing to do with your opinion, but that you are not even trying to defend yourself when you started this.
Well, that´s like, your opinion, man.
Like I said, I never said that the Wellington ending is better. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.
I course I am not content with that. You respond agaist my response and you expect that I leave the discussion just because you link me to a tread that says 'both are at fault', which is something I never denied? Seriously?
You ain't here for a debate but a shouting match. You win, well done. I'm out.
Take that thread how you like or not, but it reflect how I feel, hence why I brought it up, not for shits and giggles. I's good, and I'd recommend all to read it.
It is dangerous when you leave a baby alone with you the only one knowing it's existence, she was seconds away from death, she could've ended it all and saved herself, the baby and even Kenny. Yeah she already proved a point, she already showed Clem he was crazy but instead of putting it to an end, she decided to drag it out to the point where someone would lose their life. Clearly she had a hidden agenda, it wasn't to prove anything, it was to get rid of someone. The only thing she underestimated is that Kenny was more powerful and she arrogantly thought she could beat him.
They decided to go Wellington before they were ambushed, Howe's hardware was a lot closer but Bonnie thought it be best to mention her idea 2 days later and she was odds with Mike who was the only one that wanted to go to Texas. What if Arvo's group didn't attack them? You're telling me a group attack made them change their plan? If it was more rational to go back to Howe or Texas then why didn't they mention this before at the place where Rebecca gave birth? Instead they waste time & energy to go to a place they were unsure about and then give a suggestion two days later. They didn't come up with it or say it when it really mattered and then it was already too late. Mike & Bonnie's plan was just as crazy yet you're acting like it was better than Kenny's plan just because you don't like Kenny.
It seems you're running out of arguments as this is a weak attempt to make Kenny look bad. So Kenny shoots a Zombie that was seconds away from eating a baby and suddenly this is a sign of a crazy man because he saved a baby from it's reanimated mother? Really? what did you want Kenny to do? Pause and take time out to remember Rebecca as she's chowing down on a baby? And are you seriously telling me that Kenny deciding to go to Wellington was just for the baby only and not the others?
What's the deal? what if there were guns in that house and the prisoner runs away and Kenny doesn't go after him? the prisoner will use the guns to shoot at them. If you had a prisoner that was part of a bandit group that attacked you and he decided to make a run for it, do you not think that could be dangerous as the prisoner may come back for revenge and the next time he could be armed & dangerous? Remember that prisoner in Shel's story, what happens when they let him go? That's right, he comes back and kills one of the group members. What else was he supposed to do for Clementine? If the ice can't hold a little girl, what makes you think it'll hold Kenny who is more heavier?
And this part, people like you whether they're Jane fans, Lilly fans or Kenny haters will say he'll kill an innocent person but not once has he ever attempted to harm an innocent person but you base it on little outbursts. Dangerous? Who was he a danger to? did he harm anyone in the group and don't count Jane as she was asking for danger. In his present state, he took a beating for Clem & saved a baby but it seems this is overlooked.
There are Plenty of Pro-Jane users making excuses on what she did was right.
Its been almost a week since I typed this dude
Anwering your points=shouting match
Okay.
I see your point but:
I replayed that scene thrice and from my point of view that's not how it happened. By the way let me tell this first, I actually liked Jane from the begining. But in that particular scene she was wrong in many ways. Jane pulled out her knife, which was a mistake, yes she was in self defense but that only made things worse. Pulling a weapon in a fight shows lethal intent, and that rarely ends up well, unless you are certain the person on the other side can be easily intimidated. She should have known Kenny by now. When she put away the knife there was actually a pause, but instead of using that brief moment to try and calm Kenny, she goaded him and caused an already infuriated Kenny to attack her. When Clem pulled him off her, she started to attack him while he was on the ground, she stabbed him, gouged his wound, she didn't look like she had any intention of backing down, or try to reason with him.
I tried to stop her, I tried to warn her not to push him, but she wouldn't listen. It looked to me as if she was trying to find a way to get rid of Kenny while not making herself guilty in Clem's eyes. So that she could replace the sister she had lost, that she had wronged (in her eyes) but her attempt to do that was incredibly flawed.
lol
ok..3...anyhow...well kenny gave clem and the baby a place to stay at wellington...
Jane told me to stay out of it and a good friend listens! She got what she deserved!
No. Kenny cared MORE!
Holy shit lady! She wanted to make Kenny think that the baby was dead so she could watch him get angry. When she told me to stay out of it I did and she got what she deserved by dying!