Games that I would
consider "Well-
written" must have child as protagonist and must let you do all things you want to your protagonist. Unfortunately there is still no such game.
Best game ever... intricate plot, diverse characters, depth of meaning. It was a project killed by it's own ambition, but a game that keeps being modded 10 years after its release.
count again - 8. and it at least seemed with that option like he would just continue like that.
We are talking about emotional attachment, not drama, but even so, there is plety of drama in the Lee and Clem relationship in Around Every Corner and No Time left
that attachment just feels artificial to me. lee saved her and is pretty much the only one that interacts with her multiple times. even before the second episode starts lee seemed like he would sacrifice himself for her in a similar way, especially when he has nothing to loose.
you can neglect clementine a few times. but it does not change her overall impression of you.
season 2 had a nice example. however your lee interacts with clementine, the way she remembers him, he always says duck's bite might just be like a cold. my lee would turn in his grave, if he knew what impression he left, where it not for that head shot.
what little drama there is, was created by limited character choices like not telling her about her parents and never talking about the radio.
Lee takes a care of Clementine, out of kindness, and ends up killed because of it.
Kenny lets go of his anger and risks his live to try am save Ben, who got his family killed
Clementine gets to accept a lot of harsh truths, and has to kill/leave Lee to die.
Ben gets to dealt with his guilt for the bandit attack, and either accepts death or gets the will to live.
I never said this.
the four examples you just named left that impression for me.
The mayority of deaths in season 2 mostly shock value, withouth meaning.
i would really like to know what you think of katja's and duck's deaths.
because to me pretty much every death in season 2 is to me pretty similar to theirs. a fitting death driving the overall plot / underlining the theme / furthering character development.
sarita's - obvious
carlo's death seals sarah's fate and result in the baby depending on kenny what is pretty much one of the most important points of this story.
sarah's death in turn is in my eyes probably one of the most important parts of clementine's (and jane's) character development, especially if you have not learned the lesson the first time.
you almost sacrificed another person for someone, you can not save anyway and who does not want to be saved. trying to do the right thing you did something really terrible. - i just love stuff like this.
I am talking about determinant characters. Carly and Dough they made changes in the history of Season 1, and each had their own character arc and their death had a different meaning. Ben played a mayor part in the character arc of somebody else, and got to accep its guilt. In season 2 two, all determinat characters get killed off to cut off the story braches.
are you serious? what influence had the doug carly decision on the "history"? what exactly was doug's character arc? that guy left no lasting impression on me whatsoever. in that one scene with nick at the beginning of episode 2 i got more out of him then during 3 seasons doug. and the way someone must be killed by lilly in exact that situation felt totally cheep.
ether kenny's or ben's character act reached no fulfilling conclusion depending on you saving ben.
even the really minor character's perform a bigger contribution in season 2. walter ending was just perfect - an immediate example for clementine, where trust leads you. and rechy's death feels depending on if you obeyed like your fault - the consequence of your rash actions. (inspired by kenny)
excluding undetermined characters seems to me like nonsense since there are barely any determined in season 1. character's just get introduced. they do that that thing someone is needed for and then they just leave or die.
Is just a plot point introduced in the last episode.
really? carver wanting the baby is pretty much what started this whole thing. and it was ever present (even before being born) just like clementine only to become the real focus of the story towards the end of episode 4.
The changes of that scene are superficial. The same thing happens, whatever you are with Pete or Nick, and Pete dies anyway.
you use an argument when it suits you and ignore pretty much the same argument when it does not.
doug / carly?
even when the story does not change (what is does just as little in season 1), you actually think seeing nick pull that shit, when you tried to keep the walkers behind the door, and getting drunk while you have to find your way back on your own, does not change anything on the perception of this character?
carly knowing your secret and the way you handle that ads at least some diversity but with doug it is replaced by nothing.
Yes. For Clementine, because she only cares about Clementine. That makes her selfish.
please read through this sentence. do you find the flaw in it? if not repeat reading it until you find it.
He was on the other side of the ice lake, and stepping back into the lake could have only worsened the situation.
the lee and clem relationship was just boring. there was barely any drama behind it.
We are talking about emotional attachment, not … moredrama, but even so, there is plety of drama in the Lee and Clem relationship in Around Every Corner and No Time left
carlos dooming his daughter though protecting her.
sarah fulfilling her inevitable destiny.
sarita trying to pull back kenny only to be the thing that pushes him over the edge.
not every character's story has to end with overcoming their defining flaw or noble sacrifice.
Lee takes a care of Clementine, out of kindness, and ends up killed because of it.
Kenny lets go of his anger and risks his live to try am save Ben, who got his family killed
Clementine gets to accept a lot of harsh truths, and has to kill/leave Lee to die.
Ben gets to dealt with his guilt for the bandit attack, and either accepts death or gets the will to live.
not every ch… [view original content]
Okay, I exagerrated a bit in saying there was only two punches, but it was not eigth punches.
and it at least seemed with that option like he would just continue like that.
I think not. Watch/play that scene again, and let the timer run out instead of chossing a dialogue option. Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away.
that attachment just feels artificial to me. lee saved her and is pretty much the only one that interacts with her multiple times. even before the second episode starts lee seemed like he would sacrifice himself for her in a similar way, especially when he has nothing to loose.
The attachment is far for artificial. Is a gradual process. He decides to protect her out of kidness, the saint john brothers convice Lee he can´t just let her be in a such a fucked up world, the months together futher the attachement.
you can neglect clementine a few times. but it does not change her overall impression of you.
Not give her food when you could do it, or a few things like that, nothing serious. Also, the actions of Lee do change her overall impresion of you. Just try killing Andy and Danny, or rob the car.
like not telling her about her parents
Or you know, telling her about her parents.
and never talking about the radio.
Or, you know, talking about the radio.
sarita's - obvious
This just is a example of a character treated just as a narrative tool, for the delopement of Kenny. She had no delopement, she literary just existed to be killed off.
carlo's death
Carlo´s gets killed in the middle of a herd, by a stray bullet, only because Sarah had to loss her emotional support and some point.
you almost sacrificed another person for someone, you can not save anyway and who does not want to be saved.
A person screaming for help while they are being eaten alive=not want to be saved.
Uh, okay.
really? carver wanting the baby is pretty much what started this whole thing. and it was ever present (even before being born) just like clementine only to become the real focus of the story towards the end of episode 4.
I never denied this. I just said that taking care of the baby is a plot point introduced only towards the end.
are you serious? what influence had the doug carly decision on the "history"?
I don´t know, maybe the changes of details in the scenes and the meanig of some scenes?
what exactly was doug's character arc?
He gets killed because he is a nice guy, and he protects Ben, the new arrival, for Lily. Also, Lily looks geniuly shocked when Lee disarms her, but if Carley survives is obviously it was a murder in cold blood.
excluding undetermined characters seems to me like nonsense since there are barely any determined in season 1.
Four, and still better handled that in season 2. I mean, for fuck´s sake, Nick literally sleeps all the time in episode 3 if he is still alive, and doesn´t have a role in the episode, and doesn´t have a single line.
you actually think seeing nick pull that shit, when you tried to keep the walkers behind the door, and getting drunk while you have to find your way back on your own, does not change anything on the perception of this character?
Pete does pretty much the same thing. You know, except the getting drunk part, which is replaced by him being surprised that he is scared of dying.
please read through this sentence. do you find the flaw in it? if not repeat reading it until you find it.
She only cares about Clem, and thats only because Clem=Jaime 2.0.
reason did not stop him before.
So you admit it was reasonable for him not to step back into the lake?
Two punches= beat to death.
count again - 8. and it at least seemed with that option like he would just continue like that.
We… more are talking about emotional attachment, not drama, but even so, there is plety of drama in the Lee and Clem relationship in Around Every Corner and No Time left
that attachment just feels artificial to me. lee saved her and is pretty much the only one that interacts with her multiple times. even before the second episode starts lee seemed like he would sacrifice himself for her in a similar way, especially when he has nothing to loose.
you can neglect clementine a few times. but it does not change her overall impression of you.
season 2 had a nice example. however your lee interacts with clementine, the way she remembers him, he always says duck's bite might just be like a cold. my lee would turn in his grave, if he knew what impression he left, where it not for that head shot.
what litt… [view original content]
Dude, did you miss the fact that I didn't send a single insult in his direction, did not insult, but rather questioned his opinion like a person with a knack for healthy discussion, and was really quite courteous to him? I was being more than fair when I told him that his opinion of what he likes more holds as much value as anything else. But like it or not, sometimes you have to back up opinions if you want them to hold weight.
And no, I don't care if he didn't want a debate. By posting them here on a public forum for all to see, you're trying to get your point across to somebody. Nobody just posts things and doesn't expect a reaction or a discussion to be prompted, even stupid and irrelevant troll posts. That's completely counter-intuitive to the purpose of a public forum. All he has to do is not respond if he so chooses, and that's fine. I'm not gonna go hunting him down for a response (that would be childish). But my posts are not decided by somebody else's wishes.
And finally, if that largely calm and reasonable post was "childish, rude, and uncalled for" in your view, then all I have to say is good luck in the real world, because you're going to be offended every goddamn second if you keep this attitude up. As a wise man named Pete once said, "No one in this world is ever gonna give a goddamn whether you like something or not. You gotta grow up, son." See, now I'm being rude, which I freely admit, because I have little time for whining. Be off with you now.
Valkyria Chronicles(2 and 3 for Vita ) : Such a solid game, and it has brilliant music/art style for it's time. Story-wise, I've teared up over a few scenes... Basically, if you like strategy games and World War stuff, then this is for you xD PS3 exclusive though.
Fire Emblem Series: Every game's story has been (IMO) an amazing experience, Some lack a bit in the story department(looking at you FE8), but they're all great games. Another strategy game, and is my favorite gaming series. Only on Nintendo systems.
To The Moon, Bioshock 1, Gone Home, Shenmue 1 & 2, the Broken Sword series, Discworld Noir, Gemini Rue, Gray Matter, Beyond Two Souls (not great writing, but well directed), Sanitarium and Snatcher.
Basically, check the point and click adventure genre. They're not all great, but there is definitely some stronger writing in that genre than most.
For me:
To The Moon, Bioshock 1, Gone Home, Shenmue 1 & 2, the Broken Sword series, Discworld Noir, Gemini Rue, Gray Matter, Beyond T… morewo Souls (not great writing, but well directed), Sanitarium and Snatcher.
Basically, check the point and click adventure genre. They're not all great, but there is definitely some stronger writing in that genre than most.
Made by Revolution software. Makers of Broken Sword
They've expressed interest in making Beneath a steel sky 2 next. The only real complaint I have with the P&C adventure genre is some of the horrendously illogical puzzles some developers throw into their games. It would be nice to see this genre move into the Shenmue style of 3rd person, but the money isn't there so...
Dude, did you miss the fact that I didn't send a single insult in his direction, did not insult, but rather questioned his opinion like a pe… morerson with a knack for healthy discussion, and was really quite courteous to him? I was being more than fair when I told him that his opinion of what he likes more holds as much value as anything else. But like it or not, sometimes you have to back up opinions if you want them to hold weight.
And no, I don't care if he didn't want a debate. By posting them here on a public forum for all to see, you're trying to get your point across to somebody. Nobody just posts things and doesn't expect a reaction or a discussion to be prompted, even stupid and irrelevant troll posts. That's completely counter-intuitive to the purpose of a public forum. All he has to do is not respond if he so chooses, and that's fine. I'm not gonna go hunting him down for a response (that would be childish). But my posts are not deci… [view original content]
For me:
To The Moon, Bioshock 1, Gone Home, Shenmue 1 & 2, the Broken Sword series, Discworld Noir, Gemini Rue, Gray Matter, Beyond T… morewo Souls (not great writing, but well directed), Sanitarium and Snatcher.
Basically, check the point and click adventure genre. They're not all great, but there is definitely some stronger writing in that genre than most.
The Witcher series. I mean the story alone is worth it to go through The Witcher 1. You want a game with actual story changing choices not like TWD's illusion of Choice. You go for the Witcher. You wanna be a badass Monster hunter who bones everything he can. You go the Witcher. If you want an RPG that aint gonna hold your handle and read you beddie time story like Skyrim. You go the Witcher. You want a game with good voice acting? Then maybe you can try lowering your standers for the Witcher. BUT WHY DOES IT MATTER IF YOU HAVE CAT EYES AND WHITE HAIR YOU UNGRATEFUL SONOFABITCH. You want a game with some actual fun side missions. Guess what? Witcher. You want actual solid characters. I wonder what it will be. The Witcher.
Well, I don´t know his reasons, but most think-rightly- that David Cage writing is shallow. As for Beyond Two Souls, it focuses too much on the protagonist love life instead of the main plot point, which is Aiden and he conection to the protagonist.
Okay, I exagerrated a bit in saying there was only two punches, but it was not eigth punches.
I think not. Watch/play that scene again, and let the timer run out instead of chossing a dialogue option. Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away
i am working on a video comparison, tested it and just watched the clip again.
if you do not stop him. mike stops him at eight.
The attachment is far for artificial. Is a gradual process. He decides to protect her out of kidness, the saint john brothers convice Lee he can´t just let her be in a such a fucked up world, the months together futher the attachement.
i do not doubt if lee gets in a similar situation at the beginning of episode he would act similar.
is it unimaginable for you?
Or you know, telling her about her parents.
after months.
Or, you know, talking about the radio.
when?
She had no delopement, she literary just existed to be killed off.
desperately trying to pull kenny back only to be the thing that pushes him over the edge, seems like the perfect tragic conclusion for her.
Carlo´s gets killed in the middle of a herd, by a stray bullet, only because Sarah had to loss her emotional support and some point.
trying to protect sarah only to doom her by making her completely depended is also a nice end for a story.
you simply seem to hate tragic endings.
A person screaming for help while they are being eaten alive=not want to be saved.
then lets call it "not wanting to live."
I never denied this. I just said that taking care of the baby is a plot point introduced only towards the end.
then let's call it "protecting the (unborn) baby."
He gets killed because he is a nice guy, and he protects Ben, the new arrival, for Lily. Also, Lily looks geniuly shocked when Lee disarms her, but if Carley survives is obviously it was a murder in cold blood.
and walter gets killed because he is a trustful guy?
and rechy gets killed because he is an obedient guy?
and?
i swear, you pull some of this answers out of your ass.
ben, the new arrival? how short you think the time skip between episode 2 and 3 is?
if carley survives it makes no sense. shooting her instead of the guy, she seemed so sure was the culprit?
Four, and still better handled that in season 2. I mean, for fuck´s sake, Nick literally sleeps all the time in episode 3 if he is still alive, and doesn´t have a role in the episode, and doesn´t have a single line.
i am quiet sure there were (as usual) the optional unessential comments. (like with doug)
nick gets at least a very nice introduction.
ben just seemed to me thrown in and then not used for a season.
Pete does pretty much the same thing. You know, except the getting drunk part, which is replaced by him being surprised that he is scared of dying.
they are bother locked in in a closed room = it is the same scene? replay it.
She only cares about Clem, and thats only because Clem=Jaime 2.0.
because clem reminds her of herself, helping her is helping herself?
what the hell are you writing about?
So you admit it was reasonable for him not to step back into the lake?
Okay.
if he really cares about clementine, this behavior is completely out of character.
count again - 8.
Okay, I exagerrated a bit in saying there was only two punches, but it was not eigth punches.
and it at least… more seemed with that option like he would just continue like that.
I think not. Watch/play that scene again, and let the timer run out instead of chossing a dialogue option. Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away.
that attachment just feels artificial to me. lee saved her and is pretty much the only one that interacts with her multiple times. even before the second episode starts lee seemed like he would sacrifice himself for her in a similar way, especially when he has nothing to loose.
The attachment is far for artificial. Is a gradual process. He decides to protect her out of kidness, the saint john brothers convice Lee he can´t just let her be in a such a fucked up world, the months together futher the attachement.
you can neglect clementine a few times. but it d… [view original content]
Indeed, his writing does have severe issues (so does his attitude), but structurally speaking there was little wrong with BTS.
As for the love interest, yeah it was forced. But, we are seeing her life not just a week or two. It's pretty normal for those working closely together to develop a connection. You are right to say not "well written" mind. I suppose I should of wrote well directed as I think that's where Cage is better.
May I ask why?
Well, I don´t know his reasons, but most think-rightly- that David Cage writing is shallow. As for Beyond Two Souls, … moreit focuses too much on the protagonist love life instead of the main plot point, which is Aiden and he conection to the protagonist.
Ok. But Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away
i do not doubt if lee gets in a similar situation at the beginning of episode he would act similar.
is it unimaginable for you?
Well, yes.
after months.
And?
when?
A lot of dialogue options in Around Every Corner.
desperately trying to pull kenny back only to be the thing that pushes him over the edge, seems like the perfect tragic conclusion for her.
She has no delopement as a character. She exist only to be killed and fuck Kenny up even more.
trying to protect sarah only to doom her by making her completely depended is also a nice end for a story.
Carlo´s gets killed in the middle of a herd, by a stray bullet. How fucking improbable is that?
you simply seem to hate tragic endings.
I love tragic endings.
then lets call it "not wanting to live."
She wants to be saved because she wants to live.
then let's call it "protecting the (unborn) baby."
Okay. Is still not true, but okay.
ben, the new arrival? how short you think the time skip between episode 2 and 3 is?
He still the new guy. They barely know shit about him.
if carley survives it makes no sense. shooting her instead of the guy, she seemed so sure was the culprit?
Carly calls Lily out of her bullshit, so she shoots her because she is unestable. It makes perfect sense.
i am quiet sure there were (as usual) the optional unessential comments.
Nope. Not a single line of dialogue.
they are bother locked in in a closed room = it is the same scene? replay it.
Okay.
Clem and somebody lock the doors behind them, because Walkers are chasing. Clem helps that somebody to dealt with what happened. That somebody expresses regret. That somebody urges Clem to run to the cabin, opens the door, draws the walkers to himself and Clem escapes.
I am talking about the Pete scene or the Nick scene?
because clem reminds her of herself, helping her is helping herself?
Not herself, her sister.
if he really cares about clementine, this behavior is completely out of character.
He could only be making the situation worse, like I have already said.
Okay, I exagerrated a bit in saying there was only two punches, but it was not eigth punches.
I think not. Watch/play that scene agai… moren, and let the timer run out instead of chossing a dialogue option. Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away
i am working on a video comparison, tested it and just watched the clip again.
if you do not stop him. mike stops him at eight.
The attachment is far for artificial. Is a gradual process. He decides to protect her out of kidness, the saint john brothers convice Lee he can´t just let her be in a such a fucked up world, the months together futher the attachement.
i do not doubt if lee gets in a similar situation at the beginning of episode he would act similar.
is it unimaginable for you?
Or you know, telling her about her parents.
after months.
Or, you know, talking about the radio.
when?
She had no delopement, she literary ju… [view original content]
i repeat:
choices matter far more in season 2. they fundamentally change how you perceive a character. you see what is going on here with… more "kenny vs. jane". for example depending on your choices there are two additional scenes that prove jane's selflessness, two scenes of kenny "ignoring" clem dying and three scenes showing he is completely loosing it.
remember the big choice who to take with you at the end of season 1 episode 4?
classical narrative structure is totally overrated. kenny's downfall was enough of a thread to go throughout the episodes.
with nick i have to agree. he just seemed as a tool to get some choices and have a dead zombi friend to kill
but sarah's death was an important part of clementine's character development and the overall theme.
when did character's personality's change?
I keep meaning to pick this up, but something always gets in the way. Is it really well written or is it just a RPG story where they stick loads of side quests to compensate a average main story?
The Witcher series. I mean the story alone is worth it to go through The Witcher 1. You want a game with actual story changing choices not l… moreike TWD's illusion of Choice. You go for the Witcher. You wanna be a badass Monster hunter who bones everything he can. You go the Witcher. If you want an RPG that aint gonna hold your handle and read you beddie time story like Skyrim. You go the Witcher. You want a game with good voice acting? Then maybe you can try lowering your standers for the Witcher. BUT WHY DOES IT MATTER IF YOU HAVE CAT EYES AND WHITE HAIR YOU UNGRATEFUL SONOFABITCH. You want a game with some actual fun side missions. Guess what? Witcher. You want actual solid characters. I wonder what it will be. The Witcher.
I mean look at this badass motherfucker.
Definitely not. The story mode is a great experience. It's also not afraid to tackle some themes. Like Racism for example. The plot is devilish long and deciding on 1 choice the WHOLE of Act 2 goes a different way giving it tons of replay ability.
I keep meaning to pick this up, but something always gets in the way. Is it really well written or is it just a RPG story where they stick loads of side quests to compensate a average main story?
Definitely not. The story mode is a great experience. It's also not afraid to tackle some themes. Like Racism for example. The plot is devilish long and deciding on 1 choice the WHOLE of Act 2 goes a different way giving it tons of replay ability.
Debating is good for forums and discussion, as long as they are healthy, this is a forum, and looking for a healthy debate isn't really childish, and damakylan post wasn't really rude, as it was basically saying that the opinion card is not always going to help in when it comes to describing good writing or bad writing in a story.
Believe it or not,
This is you being condescending.
. But my posts are not decided by somebody else's wishes.
He didn´… moret want a debate. You started one. How is that not being childish?
if that largely calm and reasonable post was "childish, rude, and uncalled for"
It was uncalled for because he didn´t want a debate. How is hard to see this?
Debating is good for forums and discussion, as long as they are healthy, this is a forum, and looking for a healthy debate isn't really chil… moredish, and damakylan post wasn't really rude, as it was basically saying that the opinion card is not always going to help in when it comes to describing good writing or bad writing in a story.
Indeed, his writing does have severe issues (so does his attitude), but structurally speaking there was little wrong with BTS.
That there are not gaping holes, structurally speaking, doesn´t mean that is well written. The padding, that Aiden is reduced to background noise for nearly all the game, and that the game speds more hours in her love life that with her conection to Aiden makes it bad, bad, bad.
As for the love interest, yeah it was forced. But, we are seeing her life not just a week or two. It's pretty normal for those working closely together to develop a connection.
And? It doesn´t mean the game had to spend so many hours with that.
Indeed, his writing does have severe issues (so does his attitude), but structurally speaking there was little wrong with BTS.
As for the… more love interest, yeah it was forced. But, we are seeing her life not just a week or two. It's pretty normal for those working closely together to develop a connection. You are right to say not "well written" mind. I suppose I should of wrote well directed as I think that's where Cage is better.
Comments
what the fuck, glad you're banned, you sick fuck
VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE: BLOODLINES
Best game ever... intricate plot, diverse characters, depth of meaning. It was a project killed by it's own ambition, but a game that keeps being modded 10 years after its release.
count again - 8. and it at least seemed with that option like he would just continue like that.
that attachment just feels artificial to me. lee saved her and is pretty much the only one that interacts with her multiple times. even before the second episode starts lee seemed like he would sacrifice himself for her in a similar way, especially when he has nothing to loose.
you can neglect clementine a few times. but it does not change her overall impression of you.
season 2 had a nice example. however your lee interacts with clementine, the way she remembers him, he always says duck's bite might just be like a cold. my lee would turn in his grave, if he knew what impression he left, where it not for that head shot.
what little drama there is, was created by limited character choices like not telling her about her parents and never talking about the radio.
the four examples you just named left that impression for me.
i would really like to know what you think of katja's and duck's deaths.
because to me pretty much every death in season 2 is to me pretty similar to theirs. a fitting death driving the overall plot / underlining the theme / furthering character development.
sarita's - obvious
carlo's death seals sarah's fate and result in the baby depending on kenny what is pretty much one of the most important points of this story.
sarah's death in turn is in my eyes probably one of the most important parts of clementine's (and jane's) character development, especially if you have not learned the lesson the first time.
you almost sacrificed another person for someone, you can not save anyway and who does not want to be saved. trying to do the right thing you did something really terrible. - i just love stuff like this.
are you serious? what influence had the doug carly decision on the "history"? what exactly was doug's character arc? that guy left no lasting impression on me whatsoever. in that one scene with nick at the beginning of episode 2 i got more out of him then during 3 seasons doug. and the way someone must be killed by lilly in exact that situation felt totally cheep.
ether kenny's or ben's character act reached no fulfilling conclusion depending on you saving ben.
even the really minor character's perform a bigger contribution in season 2. walter ending was just perfect - an immediate example for clementine, where trust leads you. and rechy's death feels depending on if you obeyed like your fault - the consequence of your rash actions. (inspired by kenny)
excluding undetermined characters seems to me like nonsense since there are barely any determined in season 1. character's just get introduced. they do that that thing someone is needed for and then they just leave or die.
really? carver wanting the baby is pretty much what started this whole thing. and it was ever present (even before being born) just like clementine only to become the real focus of the story towards the end of episode 4.
you use an argument when it suits you and ignore pretty much the same argument when it does not.
doug / carly?
even when the story does not change (what is does just as little in season 1), you actually think seeing nick pull that shit, when you tried to keep the walkers behind the door, and getting drunk while you have to find your way back on your own, does not change anything on the perception of this character?
carly knowing your secret and the way you handle that ads at least some diversity but with doug it is replaced by nothing.
please read through this sentence. do you find the flaw in it? if not repeat reading it until you find it.
reason did not stop him before.
Last of Us - What a story. What a game.
GTA 3 - Absolutely gripping and thrilling. One of the best games I've ever played.
Arkham Asylum - Fantastic psychological backstory. City and Origins were basically just "fuck the story and focus on the gameplay"
Farcry 3 - Great game.
Okay, I exagerrated a bit in saying there was only two punches, but it was not eigth punches.
I think not. Watch/play that scene again, and let the timer run out instead of chossing a dialogue option. Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away.
The attachment is far for artificial. Is a gradual process. He decides to protect her out of kidness, the saint john brothers convice Lee he can´t just let her be in a such a fucked up world, the months together futher the attachement.
Not give her food when you could do it, or a few things like that, nothing serious. Also, the actions of Lee do change her overall impresion of you. Just try killing Andy and Danny, or rob the car.
Or you know, telling her about her parents.
Or, you know, talking about the radio.
This just is a example of a character treated just as a narrative tool, for the delopement of Kenny. She had no delopement, she literary just existed to be killed off.
Carlo´s gets killed in the middle of a herd, by a stray bullet, only because Sarah had to loss her emotional support and some point.
A person screaming for help while they are being eaten alive=not want to be saved.
Uh, okay.
I never denied this. I just said that taking care of the baby is a plot point introduced only towards the end.
I don´t know, maybe the changes of details in the scenes and the meanig of some scenes?
He gets killed because he is a nice guy, and he protects Ben, the new arrival, for Lily. Also, Lily looks geniuly shocked when Lee disarms her, but if Carley survives is obviously it was a murder in cold blood.
Four, and still better handled that in season 2. I mean, for fuck´s sake, Nick literally sleeps all the time in episode 3 if he is still alive, and doesn´t have a role in the episode, and doesn´t have a single line.
Pete does pretty much the same thing. You know, except the getting drunk part, which is replaced by him being surprised that he is scared of dying.
She only cares about Clem, and thats only because Clem=Jaime 2.0.
So you admit it was reasonable for him not to step back into the lake?
Okay.
Dude, did you miss the fact that I didn't send a single insult in his direction, did not insult, but rather questioned his opinion like a person with a knack for healthy discussion, and was really quite courteous to him? I was being more than fair when I told him that his opinion of what he likes more holds as much value as anything else. But like it or not, sometimes you have to back up opinions if you want them to hold weight.
And no, I don't care if he didn't want a debate. By posting them here on a public forum for all to see, you're trying to get your point across to somebody. Nobody just posts things and doesn't expect a reaction or a discussion to be prompted, even stupid and irrelevant troll posts. That's completely counter-intuitive to the purpose of a public forum. All he has to do is not respond if he so chooses, and that's fine. I'm not gonna go hunting him down for a response (that would be childish). But my posts are not decided by somebody else's wishes.
And finally, if that largely calm and reasonable post was "childish, rude, and uncalled for" in your view, then all I have to say is good luck in the real world, because you're going to be offended every goddamn second if you keep this attitude up. As a wise man named Pete once said, "No one in this world is ever gonna give a goddamn whether you like something or not. You gotta grow up, son." See, now I'm being rude, which I freely admit, because I have little time for whining. Be off with you now.
What does TLOU mean? The Lolf Omong Us?
Don't know if anyone has suggested these yet...
Valkyria Chronicles(2 and 3 for Vita
) : Such a solid game, and it has brilliant music/art style for it's time. Story-wise, I've teared up over a few scenes... Basically, if you like strategy games and World War stuff, then this is for you xD PS3 exclusive though.
Fire Emblem Series: Every game's story has been (IMO) an amazing experience, Some lack a bit in the story department(looking at you FE8), but they're all great games. Another strategy game, and is my favorite gaming series. Only on Nintendo systems.
The Last of Us. Another Sony exclusive.
CoD 2-4
Freedom Fighters.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.
For me:
To The Moon, Bioshock 1, Gone Home, Shenmue 1 & 2, the Broken Sword series, Discworld Noir, Gemini Rue, Gray Matter, Beyond Two Souls (not great writing, but well directed), Sanitarium and Snatcher.
Basically, check the point and click adventure genre. They're not all great, but there is definitely some stronger writing in that genre than most.
I agree on what you said about point and click adventures. I recommend the game BENEATH A STEEL SKY, it's old but has an amazing story.
Made by Revolution software. Makers of Broken Sword
They've expressed interest in making Beneath a steel sky 2 next. The only real complaint I have with the P&C adventure genre is some of the horrendously illogical puzzles some developers throw into their games. It would be nice to see this genre move into the Shenmue style of 3rd person, but the money isn't there so...
Psychonauts (Most Double Fine games have pretty stellar writing)
This is you being condescending.
He didn´t want a debate. You started one. How is that not being childish?
It was uncalled for because he didn´t want a debate. How is hard to see this?
Hmm...I find double fines writing is very Saturday morning cartoonish. I'm not knocking it, it's good, just don't expect anything thought provoking.
Can a fighting game even be considered well written.
Beyond Two Souls?
The Witcher series. I mean the story alone is worth it to go through The Witcher 1. You want a game with actual story changing choices not like TWD's illusion of Choice. You go for the Witcher. You wanna be a badass Monster hunter who bones everything he can. You go the Witcher. If you want an RPG that aint gonna hold your handle and read you beddie time story like Skyrim. You go the Witcher. You want a game with good voice acting? Then maybe you can try lowering your standers for the Witcher. BUT WHY DOES IT MATTER IF YOU HAVE CAT EYES AND WHITE HAIR YOU UNGRATEFUL SONOFABITCH. You want a game with some actual fun side missions. Guess what? Witcher. You want actual solid characters. I wonder what it will be. The Witcher.
I mean look at this badass motherfucker.
Yes.
You know, because they actually gave two fucks about the story in Injustice.
May I ask why? Other then the desert act the rest made perfect sense.
Well, I don´t know his reasons, but most think-rightly- that David Cage writing is shallow. As for Beyond Two Souls, it focuses too much on the protagonist love life instead of the main plot point, which is Aiden and he conection to the protagonist.
i am working on a video comparison, tested it and just watched the clip again.
if you do not stop him. mike stops him at eight.
i do not doubt if lee gets in a similar situation at the beginning of episode he would act similar.
is it unimaginable for you?
after months.
when?
desperately trying to pull kenny back only to be the thing that pushes him over the edge, seems like the perfect tragic conclusion for her.
trying to protect sarah only to doom her by making her completely depended is also a nice end for a story.
you simply seem to hate tragic endings.
then lets call it "not wanting to live."
then let's call it "protecting the (unborn) baby."
and walter gets killed because he is a trustful guy?
and rechy gets killed because he is an obedient guy?
and?
i swear, you pull some of this answers out of your ass.
ben, the new arrival? how short you think the time skip between episode 2 and 3 is?
if carley survives it makes no sense. shooting her instead of the guy, she seemed so sure was the culprit?
i am quiet sure there were (as usual) the optional unessential comments. (like with doug)
nick gets at least a very nice introduction.
ben just seemed to me thrown in and then not used for a season.
they are bother locked in in a closed room = it is the same scene? replay it.
because clem reminds her of herself, helping her is helping herself?
what the hell are you writing about?
if he really cares about clementine, this behavior is completely out of character.
Indeed, his writing does have severe issues (so does his attitude), but structurally speaking there was little wrong with BTS.
As for the love interest, yeah it was forced. But, we are seeing her life not just a week or two. It's pretty normal for those working closely together to develop a connection. You are right to say not "well written" mind. I suppose I should of wrote well directed as I think that's where Cage is better.
Ok. But Kenny stops punching Arvo before Mike drags him away
Well, yes.
And?
A lot of dialogue options in Around Every Corner.
She has no delopement as a character. She exist only to be killed and fuck Kenny up even more.
Carlo´s gets killed in the middle of a herd, by a stray bullet. How fucking improbable is that?
I love tragic endings.
She wants to be saved because she wants to live.
Okay. Is still not true, but okay.
He still the new guy. They barely know shit about him.
Carly calls Lily out of her bullshit, so she shoots her because she is unestable. It makes perfect sense.
Nope. Not a single line of dialogue.
Okay.
Clem and somebody lock the doors behind them, because Walkers are chasing. Clem helps that somebody to dealt with what happened. That somebody expresses regret. That somebody urges Clem to run to the cabin, opens the door, draws the walkers to himself and Clem escapes.
I am talking about the Pete scene or the Nick scene?
Not herself, her sister.
He could only be making the situation worse, like I have already said.
Carlos, for example.
In episode 2, he spits in Carver´s face and a lot of reckless stuff.
In episode 3, there is this:
"Rash actions have consequences, regardless of intent."
He goes for reckless guy to reasonable guy. In one episode.
I keep meaning to pick this up, but something always gets in the way. Is it really well written or is it just a RPG story where they stick loads of side quests to compensate a average main story?
Definitely not. The story mode is a great experience. It's also not afraid to tackle some themes. Like Racism for example. The plot is devilish long and deciding on 1 choice the WHOLE of Act 2 goes a different way giving it tons of replay ability.
Sounds like something I really should pick up then. To the steam store!
I would recommend getting 1 and 2 just for a few changes but it's not needed but still a fun game.
Ride to Hell:Retribution
Will do. Hate starting a game out of sequences even if it's not releated. It's the same universe etc, so I prefer to play them from the start.
Be warned though, Witcher 1 is a bit dated and the voice acting isn't great (it's originally a polish game) but it's still bearable.
Debating is good for forums and discussion, as long as they are healthy, this is a forum, and looking for a healthy debate isn't really childish, and damakylan post wasn't really rude, as it was basically saying that the opinion card is not always going to help in when it comes to describing good writing or bad writing in a story.
The Last of Us
Is your name "amid the ruins? No. So aint none hating on you
Bioshock series ( except for Burial at Sea)
Uncharted series
The Last of Us
Mass Effect Series
Red Dead Redemption
GTA IV
Batman Arkaham series
Enslaved
The Wolf Among Us
The Walking Dead ( Season 1 ,2, 400 days)
Metro Series
The Walking Dead Season 1
Batman Arkham Series (Except Origins that shit was retarded)
Red Dead Redemption
Bioshock Series
Assassins Creed 2 and 3
The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
Infamous Series
Call of Duty Black Ops
Emyl19 was no looking for a debate, so yes, is childish.
Being condescending counts as being rude.
i find Doublefines writing fantastic. Never forget Lucasarts, it lives on in Telltale and Doublefine
That there are not gaping holes, structurally speaking, doesn´t mean that is well written. The padding, that Aiden is reduced to background noise for nearly all the game, and that the game speds more hours in her love life that with her conection to Aiden makes it bad, bad, bad.
And? It doesn´t mean the game had to spend so many hours with that.