You're saying that most of us are kids. Even if you're generalizing three people, it still makes you look idiotic. Do you know the definition of generalizing? The amount doesn't really matter as long as you're falsely accusing people of being something.
Most : < 50%
You are the only one i spesifically called kid in this conversation. So far it doesnt seem like im falsely accusing of you being a kid.
We're all children minus those who agree with you, huh?
You're saying that most of us are kids. Even if you're generalizing three people, it still makes you look idiotic. Do you know the definitio… moren of generalizing? The amount doesn't really matter as long as you're falsely accusing people of being something.
We're all children minus those who agree with you, huh?
...and who ever agrees with you?
And again, why did Kenny try to kill Jane? Because she got herself into a hell of a mess. We're just running in circles here. None of that would have happened if it wasn't for Jane's idea of unmasking Kenny. That automatically makes her the one responsible for what happened. Or at least most at fault. Did Kenny help the situation? He certainly didn't, but he wouldn't have gone nuts if it wasn't for Jane.
I wasn't talking about Sarita. It's about Katjaa and Duck.
"You're just another Type-A asshole trying to save a bunch of dead people."
You seriously think speaking that way of people who have passed away isn't disrespectful and sinful? That's cool, I guess.
And you're blaming him for trying to grab the knife he had previously been slashed with? At that point, it was a fight to death and he knew Jane wouldn't back off or miss an opportunity to kill him. Fact is, Jane took the knife out. It's possible to be killed in a regular one-on-one fight. As possible as when there is a knife involved and the two people have clearly lost their temper? Nope.
Again, someone only had to die because Kenny decided to try and kill Jane and Clem decided that the only way to stop that from happening was… more the kill Kenny. It was a combination of Kenny's decision and Clem's, not Jane's. Kenny wasn't aware of Jane's lie, no. But he was aware that he was killing someone out of revenge for something that he thinks she did.
Jane didn't "mock" dead people. She brought up that Kenny wasn't there to save Sarita as a direct response to Kenny's accusation that Jane just up and leaves people because she doesn't care about them (which would have certainly hit hard because of what happened with Jaime). She then throws his accusations that she's unloved back at him and tells him that Sarita was scared of him (which she was). The two sides here were "No one loves you and you only think of yourself and leave everyone else behind" and "You weren't there for your loved ones and they were deathly afraid of you."
You do… [view original content]
You said me and most of the community. You're being unnecessarily hypocritical. Admit it, you're a douche that blindly generalizes people when they don't agree with you. Have you read your posts? You accuse everyone of being children and not being able to read. So far it seems like you're the youngest of us all.
Then why are you acting like one, Zyke? Making half-assed assumptions of hundreds of people you haven't even met. It's sad to see this kind of posting.
You're saying that most of us are kids. Even if you're generalizing three people, it still makes you look idiotic. Do you know the definitio… moren of generalizing? The amount doesn't really matter as long as you're falsely accusing people of being something.
Most : < 50%
You are the only one i spesifically called kid in this conversation. So far it doesnt seem like im falsely accusing of you being a kid.
We're all children minus those who agree with you, huh?
You are kid if you act like one.
None of that would have happened if it wasn't for Jane's idea of unmasking Kenny. That automatically makes her the one responsible for what happened.
No. It doesn't. That's not how culpability works, as I've explained. Unless you want to say that Jane's crime justified Kenny's, he's the one responsible for his crime, not her. And in my opinion, what she did was not adequate justification for his "going nuts" and killing her.
That sentence isn't "mocking" the dead people, just Kenny. It's still a mean thing to say, but so is "I know exactly what you are. Nothing. Nobody cares about you, and you don't care about nobody but yourself. That makes you nothing." Tell me that isn't an incredibly cruel thing to say to someone, especially someone as lonely as Jane.
At that point, it was a fight to death and he knew Jane wouldn't back off or miss an opportunity to kill him
Wouldn't that mean that Jane was justified in taking the knife out in the first place, as we saw that he charged at her and tried to choke her against the wall and then came at her again? Or do you not thing that Kenny came at her with the intention to kill, despite repeatedly saying as much?
And again, why did Kenny try to kill Jane? Because she got herself into a hell of a mess. We're just running in circles here. None of that w… moreould have happened if it wasn't for Jane's idea of unmasking Kenny. That automatically makes her the one responsible for what happened. Or at least most at fault. Did Kenny help the situation? He certainly didn't, but he wouldn't have gone nuts if it wasn't for Jane.
I wasn't talking about Sarita. It's about Katjaa and Duck.
"You're just another Type-A asshole trying to save a bunch of dead people."
You seriously think speaking that way of people who have passed away isn't disrespectful and sinful? That's cool, I guess.
And you're blaming him for trying to grab the knife he had previously been slashed with? At that point, it was a fight to death and he knew Jane wouldn't back off or miss an opportunity to kill him. Fact is, Jane took the knife out. It's possible to be killed in a regular one-o… [view original content]
Because thats true? Ive been here almost 2 months and i can already tell that this place is full of kids. Kids spamming threads full of memes because they didnt like the subject of conversation is good example.
You accuse everyone of being children and not being able to read
I state that majority are kids and you are childish/kid (pretty much the same thing)? And i have pointed out more than once how you are unable to understand what you are reading.
Then why are you acting like one, Zyke? Making half-assed assumptions of hundreds of people you haven't even met.
Could you give me an example of how im being childish? You started this by treating yourself and your arguments as superior and attempted to make me look like a fool, after failing to read my messages properly.
You said me and most of the community. You're being unnecessarily hypocritical. Admit it, you're a douche that blindly generalizes people wh… moreen they don't agree with you. Have you read your posts? You accuse everyone of being children and not being able to read. So far it seems like you're the youngest of us all.
Then why are you acting like one, Zyke? Making half-assed assumptions of hundreds of people you haven't even met. It's sad to see this kind of posting.
Yes, it does. Jane caused the fight knowing one of then would most likely not walk away.
"I'll fuckin' kill you!"
"I...knew you would..."
She knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that she purposely engineered that situation so their differences would be solved once and for all makes her indirectly responsible for the chain of events that occur later.
Didn't I already agree that Kenny was out of line, too? The way I see it, they're far different insults. Kenny was personally offending her, but Jane resorted to calling out dead people once the "You're crazy and everyone hates you" joke got old. You simply can't compare the two of them. Now, Jane's insult afterwards is a fitting response.
"Everyone talks about you behind your back becaude they're afraid of you."
Was he just gonna beat her to death? Jane is not an idiot. She pulled out the knife waaay after Kenny tried to choke her. She proved she hang in there with him wihout making the fight a bloodbath. Without a knife, Clementine would have had a lot more time to stop the fight.
None of that would have happened if it wasn't for Jane's idea of unmasking Kenny. That automatically makes her the one responsible for what … morehappened.
No. It doesn't. That's not how culpability works, as I've explained. Unless you want to say that Jane's crime justified Kenny's, he's the one responsible for his crime, not her. And in my opinion, what she did was not adequate justification for his "going nuts" and killing her.
That sentence isn't "mocking" the dead people, just Kenny. It's still a mean thing to say, but so is "I know exactly what you are. Nothing. Nobody cares about you, and you don't care about nobody but yourself. That makes you nothing." Tell me that isn't an incredibly cruel thing to say to someone, especially someone as lonely as Jane.
At that point, it was a fight to death and he knew Jane wouldn't back off or miss an opportunity to kill him
Wouldn't that mean that Jane was justified in taking th… [view original content]
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right to insult everyone else.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
Generalizing most of us as being children and calling my argument pointless shit when you're out of responses isn't? I must be from Mars.
You said me and most of the community.
Because thats true? Ive been here almost 2 months and i can already tell that this place is f… moreull of kids. Kids spamming threads full of memes because they didnt like the subject of conversation is good example.
You accuse everyone of being children and not being able to read
I state that majority are kids and you are childish/kid (pretty much the same thing)? And i have pointed out more than once how you are unable to understand what you are reading.
Then why are you acting like one, Zyke? Making half-assed assumptions of hundreds of people you haven't even met.
Could you give me an example of how im being childish? You started this by treating yourself and your arguments as superior and attempted to make me look like a fool, after failing to read my messages properly.
Carver was still talking steady so i guess the bullet missed a lot and Troy was screaming and screaming , only just listening to that makes it already obvious who suffered more
Carver had to wait for over 2 minutes after being shot before the first hit from crowbar. Plenty of time to suffer.
Well i'd rather be… more shot in the knees and be knocked out after the first hit than having my dick shot off and se a dozen walkers coming to eat me alive any day
I would rather just take the quicker way and let walker bite my neck open. I would just bleed to death in matter of seconds and wouldnt most likely feel much because of being in shock after all that.
But then his responses are even weider if he thinks we all are kids aren't they?
Then it would make him the biggest kid for ranting on and on about little things and for what ? For very small subjects and makes them almost the most importabnt subjects in his mind
I apologise if i was a bit offensive but i was just answering
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right… more to insult everyone else.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
Generalizing most of us as being children and calling my argument pointless shit when you're out of responses isn't? I must be from Mars.
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right to insult everyone else.
Its an assumption which is supported by the fact how childishly people behave on this forum.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
There was nothing wrong with my reply. You failed to read my message and/or understand the point, something you seem you have problem with. I was arguing that Carver's suffered a lot longer/more than you implied and you thought i meant the moment when Kenny started beating Carver, even thought i just mentioned his kneecaps being shot off and lying on the ground for over 2 minutes. Considering what i was talking about from very start, your reply was just pointless shit.
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right… more to insult everyone else.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
Generalizing most of us as being children and calling my argument pointless shit when you're out of responses isn't? I must be from Mars.
Carver was still talking steady so i guess the bullet missed a lot
It crippled Carver, it wasnt a miss and it doesnt matter what Carver shows to others, pain is still pain. He wasnt going to show any weaknesses to Kenny and faced his death "like a man" or "defiant to the end".
Its not like Troy had much of a choise
Carver was still talking steady so i guess the bullet missed a lot and Troy was screaming and screaming , only just listening to that makes it already obvious who suffered more
She obviously wasn't planning on being put in a position where he was going to kill her. She repeatedly tells him to back off and not touch her and tells Clem that she's not going to let Kenny near her. So no, she didn't intend for what ended up happening to happen. She thought she could control the situation but Kenny was too worked up for her to do that.
Again, she didn't "call out dead people." She called out Kenny for using dead people as an excuse for acting the way he acts. Which is hypocritical on her part, but not insulting to the dead people.
She saw him beat the living shit out of Arvo over a single "fuck you." Hell, she compared him to Carver. So yeah, of course she thought that he could have beaten/choked her to death. She pulls out the knife the second time Kenny lunges at her because the first time he lunged at her, he tried to choke her out against the wall.
Yes, it does. Jane caused the fight knowing one of then would most likely not walk away.
"I'll fuckin' kill you!"
"I...knew you would.… more.."
She knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that she purposely engineered that situation so their differences would be solved once and for all makes her indirectly responsible for the chain of events that occur later.
Didn't I already agree that Kenny was out of line, too? The way I see it, they're far different insults. Kenny was personally offending her, but Jane resorted to calling out dead people once the "You're crazy and everyone hates you" joke got old. You simply can't compare the two of them. Now, Jane's insult afterwards is a fitting response.
"Everyone talks about you behind your back becaude they're afraid of you."
Was he just gonna beat her to death? Jane is not an idiot. She pulled out the knife waaay after Kenny tried to choke her. She proved she hang in there with him wih… [view original content]
I think hanging out with kids on message boards is a little weird. If I was a grown-up and I realised everyone else were kids, not sure how I'd feel about that.
But then his responses are even weider if he thinks we all are kids aren't they?
Then it would make him the biggest kid for ranting on an… mored on about little things and for what ? For very small subjects and makes them almost the most importabnt subjects in his mind
I apologise if i was a bit offensive but i was just answering
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole? So if me and someone else start talking about touching little girl "Most of you" become rapists too?
....lol.
Everything is wrong with that statement. You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right… more to insult everyone else.
Its an assumption which is supported by the fact how childishly people behave on this forum.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
There was nothing wrong with my reply. You failed to read my message and/or understand the point, something you seem you have problem with. I was arguing that Carver's suffered a lot longer/more than you implied and you thought i meant the moment when Kenny started beating Carver, even thought i just mentioned his kneecaps being shot off and lying on the ground for over 2 minutes. Considering what i was talking about from very start, your reply was just pointless shit.
But then his responses are even weider if he thinks we all are kids aren't they?
Then it would make him the biggest kid for ranting on an… mored on about little things and for what ? For very small subjects and makes them almost the most importabnt subjects in his mind
I apologise if i was a bit offensive but i was just answering
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole?
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kids spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse of memes in general.
You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
How about if you spent some time reading my messages, so i wouldnt have to complain about you not reading them?
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole? So if me and someone else start talking about touching little girl "M… moreost of you" become rapists too?
....lol.
Everything is wrong with that statement. You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
But, how can someone not expect a fight between two people who hate each other not go over the line and then say she knew that would happen all along? You could make the argument that she meant knowing that Kenny would react that way, but it's still the same. She knew he'd lose it and she would be forced to defend herself at whatever cost. You just don't tell someone "I knew you would" for no reason when he's about to kill you. Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt.
How is it not insulting, though? It's offensive to both Kenny and his family. How would you feel if you just lost a couple of family members and I walked up to you like "Jesus, Dome. Stop mourning a bunch of dead people and move on!"?
Again, she did have her reasons for taking the knife. Self-defense being it. It just doesn't change the fact that she was trying to drag herself out of her own hole. She pushed Kenny to his limits and came up with a sinister plan. At that point, whether right or not, Kenny saw her as a dangerous and decided that she needed to be valorized. Everything went to hell because of her.
She obviously wasn't planning on being put in a position where he was going to kill her. She repeatedly tells him to back off and not touch … moreher and tells Clem that she's not going to let Kenny near her. So no, she didn't intend for what ended up happening to happen. She thought she could control the situation but Kenny was too worked up for her to do that.
Again, she didn't "call out dead people." She called out Kenny for using dead people as an excuse for acting the way he acts. Which is hypocritical on her part, but not insulting to the dead people.
She saw him beat the living shit out of Arvo over a single "fuck you." Hell, she compared him to Carver. So yeah, of course she thought that he could have beaten/choked her to death. She pulls out the knife the second time Kenny lunges at her because the first time he lunged at her, he tried to choke her out against the wall.
What do the memes have to do with anything here? Why should a few people's behaviour affect the way "Most of us" are seen? You don't even understand what you're arguing for anymore.
How about you show people with different opinions respect so they don't have to complain about you being a scumbag?
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole?
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kid… mores spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse of memes in general.
You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
How about if you spent some time reading my messages, so i wouldnt have to complain about you not reading them?
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kids spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse of memes in general.
Perhaps... But when it comes to you, I'm not sure if anybody can take you seriously with how you acting right now. You're acting like a angry 4 year old. From what I saw... You just hate it when you're wrong, and it bugs you deeply.
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole?
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kid… mores spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse of memes in general.
You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
How about if you spent some time reading my messages, so i wouldnt have to complain about you not reading them?
They were simply talking at first. I doubt the walkers really paid much attention to that, but even if they did, it was clear that said attention inmediately shifted to Troy once he started yelling. It's why the walkers ignored everyone else.
So if he had just been shot and killed... where does that leave the group? With a bunch of walkers who just saw these other misfit walkers kill food without using their teeth. Uh oh time to run.
At least you admit that the idea is kinda out in the woods. Fair enough. It's all assumptions on both sides.
Of course. I know when to admit that it isn't the most sound argument. Since it didn't happen it's all speculation. It just makes sense that it could have panned out much worse if they did do what they did.
Turn around for no reason and go in a murderous rampage even though they were literally more walkers? That's exactly what I'm saying.
What about whatever events they used to murder Troy "humanely"? That surely would have nabbed the attention of some of the passerby zombies.
That's exactly my point, though. It only benefited Jane. I already adressed the bait part many times, so you know how I feel about that.
But that's exactly my point. That it didn't solely server Jane. It was no doubt satisfying for her, but it benefitted the groups escape also.
Later.
They were simply talking at first. I doubt the walkers really paid much attention to that, but even if they did, it was clear… more that said attention inmediately shifted to Troy once he started yelling. It's why the walkers ignored everyone else.
Walkers can turn around. I am reaching out there, but it's a viable circumstance.
At least you admit that the idea is kinda out in the woods. Fair enough. It's all assumptions on both sides.
Are you saying they couldn't turn around and attack the group?
Turn around for no reason and go in a murderous rampage even though they were literally more walkers? That's exactly what I'm saying.
But then she wouldn't get the added emotional benefit, and the group wouldn't get the added physical benefit of walker distraction. It's a win win.
That's exactly my point, though. It only benefited Jane. I already adressed the bait part many times, so you know how I feel about that.
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kids spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse … moreof memes in general.
Perhaps... But when it comes to you, I'm not sure if anybody can take you seriously with how you acting right now. You're acting like a angry 4 year old. From what I saw... You just hate it when you're wrong, and it bugs you deeply.
Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt.
Yes, it was a very poor assessment of the situation on her part. but the possibility of the fight going over the line hinged on Kenny's decision. Let me take this to a much more extreme case. Suppose I were to let a murderer escape prison and he goes on to kill someone after being let out. Does my knowledge that he's a murderer and action of releasing him diminish his responsibility for his murders? No. While it's true that he wouldn't have been able to murder that other person had it not been for my action of releasing him, he still bears the full brunt of the responsibility for the murders that he commits.
How would you feel if you just lost a couple of family members and I walked up to you like "Jesus, Dome. Stop mourning a bunch of dead people and move on!"?
Probably as bad as I'd feel if after I lost those family members, someone were to tell me that there's no one left who loves me and that I'm all alone.
At that point, whether right or not, Kenny saw her as a dangerous and decided that she needed to be valorized.
Well it's not right and that matters. That's what I've been saying this whole time. She shouldn't have pushed Kenny, but her pushing him doesn't make it okay for him to kill her or erase his responsibility for doing so.
But, how can someone not expect a fight between two people who hate each other not go over the line and then say she knew that would happen … moreall along? You could make the argument that she meant knowing that Kenny would react that way, but it's still the same. She knew he'd lose it and she would be forced to defend herself at whatever cost. You just don't tell someone "I knew you would" for no reason when he's about to kill you. Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt.
How is it not insulting, though? It's offensive to both Kenny and his family. How would you feel if you just lost a couple of family members and I walked up to you like "Jesus, Dome. Stop mourning a bunch of dead people and move on!"?
Again, she did have her reasons for taking the knife. Self-defense being it. It just doesn't change the fact that she w… [view original content]
It's like he realized he was getting his butt kicked in the actual argument, so he had to resort to petty insults in order to take it off-to… morepic.
Ironically enough, it backtracked since I'm undeniably calm while he gets angrier at me with every reply.
Who understands us children?
So if he had just been shot and killed... where does that leave the group? With a bunch of walkers who just saw these other misfit walkers kill food without using their teeth. Uh oh time to run.
Time to run for Jane? Probably, the rest of the group would have still been safe since they were just standing there doing nothing. And again, the walkers only got that close because of how long Jane took to eliminate Troy. When he first comes out you can see they're considerably far.
Of course. I know when to admit that it isn't the most sound argument. Since it didn't happen it's all speculation. It just makes sense that it could have panned out much worse if they did do what they did.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely a possibility, but a highly unlikely one.
What about whatever events they used to murder Troy "humanely"? That surely would have nabbed the attention of some of the passerby zombies.
How so? Because of the shot? They were already walking towards Troy, so I doubt him dying would have stopped them from munching on the only person they saw talking. Then again, do we have any clue how walkers truly work?
But that's exactly my point. That it didn't solely server Jane. It was no doubt satisfying for her, but it benefitted the groups escape also.
We're agreed on the Jane part, we're not on the benefiting the group one. I already explained why I think it wasn't a huge help, if any. Unless we keep counting those five walkers who I already proved were most likely not a threat to anyone but Troy.
They were simply talking at first. I doubt the walkers really paid much attention to that, but even if they did, it was clear that said atte… morention inmediately shifted to Troy once he started yelling. It's why the walkers ignored everyone else.
So if he had just been shot and killed... where does that leave the group? With a bunch of walkers who just saw these other misfit walkers kill food without using their teeth. Uh oh time to run.
At least you admit that the idea is kinda out in the woods. Fair enough. It's all assumptions on both sides.
Of course. I know when to admit that it isn't the most sound argument. Since it didn't happen it's all speculation. It just makes sense that it could have panned out much worse if they did do what they did.
Turn around for no reason and go in a murderous rampage even though they were literally more walkers? That's exactly what I'm saying.
What about whatever events they … [view original content]
That's a rather questionable example, though. It's up for interpretion, but like I said above, on more than a couple of times was it implied that Jane planned this all along. She may not have, she might as well had. We're doing nothing but discussing which belief is the cloest to being correct. Whether Jane intented to kill Jane or not can change this whole conversation in a heartbeat.
Exactly. And how do you think they would feel? Amused? Not likely. Offended? Probably.
I've agreed many times that killing her should have been one if his last options. I'm just saying that Kenny wouldn't have made this mistake without Jane making hers in the first place. When rating mistakes, why should I hold the one who caused the rest in higher regard?
Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the ba… moreby and acting all hurt.
Yes, it was a very poor assessment of the situation on her part. but the possibility of the fight going over the line hinged on Kenny's decision. Let me take this to a much more extreme case. Suppose I were to let a murderer escape prison and he goes on to kill someone after being let out. Does my knowledge that he's a murderer and action of releasing him diminish his responsibility for his murders? No. While it's true that he wouldn't have been able to murder that other person had it not been for my action of releasing him, he still bears the full brunt of the responsibility for the murders that he commits.
How would you feel if you just lost a couple of family members and I walked up to you like "Jesus, Dome. Stop mourning a bunch of dead people and move on!"?
… [view original content]
Their conversation was no more than a minute long. Probably considerably less than that. (IIRC) So the walkers weren't that far back. The group could have very well been in the cross hairs of the zombies, just look what happened to their avoidance tactics when it all went down hill. Imagine it going downhill even faster by A: Jane getting eaten right in from of them or B: Jane having to dash past all the walkers because she was so early on found out. It's definitely not out of the question to imagine shit hitting the fan sooner and resulting in more deaths. But what you're saying is that Jane, who it is implied is "sexually abused" by Troy, should give him a humane death and therefore put her life even more directly on the line and very likely die due to this? I find that.... very unreasonable. It's not fair to place the victims in charge of their culprits, even less so to expect them to very well give up their life to give them a more pleasant end.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely a possibility, but a highly unlikely one.
Actually not so highly unlikely when you take into account the action of killing him would have then been imprinted on Jane and likely the other group members. I just hadn't considered the implications of Troy not being present to take eyes of them in that regards.
How so? Because of the shot? They were already walking towards Troy, so I doubt him dying would have stopped them from munching on the only person they saw talking.
What do you mean? I thought you were talking about killing him humanely. Like a shot to the head. IF you are trying to be humane than a shot to the head is the only way to go at that point. Otherwise he is still alive, suffering, and is ripped to shreds. We aren't arguing about which part of his body to shoot in order to make it seem less like torture are we? A shot to the head means he is no longer taking.
Then again, do we have any clue how walkers truly work?
Well yes, quite a bit actually.
Jane part, we're not on the benefiting the group one. I already explained why I think it wasn't a huge help, if any. Unless we keep counting those five walkers who I already proved were most likely not a threat to anyone but Troy.
But they were a threat to everyone, especially after they directly target Jane/the group after Troy is dead. Thereby starting off the shit storm that is their escape even earlier, without the benefit of being nearly half way through the herd before it happened. They would likely all be dead from trying to make it through the entire herd detected.
So if he had just been shot and killed... where does that leave the group? With a bunch of walkers who just saw these other misfit walkers k… moreill food without using their teeth. Uh oh time to run.
Time to run for Jane? Probably, the rest of the group would have still been safe since they were just standing there doing nothing. And again, the walkers only got that close because of how long Jane took to eliminate Troy. When he first comes out you can see they're considerably far.
Of course. I know when to admit that it isn't the most sound argument. Since it didn't happen it's all speculation. It just makes sense that it could have panned out much worse if they did do what they did.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely a possibility, but a highly unlikely one.
What about whatever events they used to murder Troy "humanely"? That surely would have nabbed the attention of some of the passerby zombies.
How s… [view original content]
What the crucial difference that you think exists between my example of a negligent act causing a murder but not diminishing the responsibility of the murderer and the situation with Jane and Kenny involving her committing a negligent act that causes a murder but doesn't diminish Kenny's responsibility as a murderer? Taking my already extreme example even further, even if I let the murderer out, planning for him to murder someone, whether or not he does so is still up to him, thereby making him responsible for the murders committed.
Not really offended. Maybe offended for me, but they'd also be offended if someone were to call their family member an unloved "nothing."
I'm not in the business of rating Jane and Kenny's mistakes. I'm only pointing out that he is responsible for his mistake, just as as she is responsible for hers. Her mistake didn't force him into making his mistake. That's all I'm trying to say.
That's a rather questionable example, though. It's up for interpretion, but like I said above, on more than a couple of times was it implied… more that Jane planned this all along. She may not have, she might as well had. We're doing nothing but discussing which belief is the cloest to being correct. Whether Jane intented to kill Jane or not can change this whole conversation in a heartbeat.
Exactly. And how do you think they would feel? Amused? Not likely. Offended? Probably.
I've agreed many times that killing her should have been one if his last options. I'm just saying that Kenny wouldn't have made this mistake without Jane making hers in the first place. When rating mistakes, why should I hold the one who caused the rest in higher regard?
Didn't I already explain it above? It is implied that Jane knew this would he a fight to death along, which completely changes this conversation. Assuming Jane wanted to kill Kenny and/or want the fight to go to extreme lenghts, why would you compare it with someone who genuinely didn't know?
You should probably ask them and see what they respond.
Did it "force" Kenny's mistake? I guess that's a strong word since it could have been avoided, but it did cause it. Causing and forcing are two completely different words with different meanings. No matter how you look at it, Kenny's last breakdown happens thanks to Jane.
What the crucial difference that you think exists between my example of a negligent act causing a murder but not diminishing the responsibil… moreity of the murderer and the situation with Jane and Kenny involving her committing a negligent act that causes a murder but doesn't diminish Kenny's responsibility as a murderer? Taking my already extreme example even further, even if I let the murderer out, planning for him to murder someone, whether or not he does so is still up to him, thereby making him responsible for the murders committed.
Not really offended. Maybe offended for me, but they'd also be offended if someone were to call their family member an unloved "nothing."
I'm not in the business of rating Jane and Kenny's mistakes. I'm only pointing out that he is responsible for his mistake, just as as she is responsible for hers. Her mistake didn't force him into making his mistake. That's all I'm trying to say.
Well I was going off of this statement of yours: "Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt." But if you now want to bring it back to assuming that Jane knew this would be a fight to the death, then sure. I amended my example above to have the me outright planning for the murderer to kill someone. Would that make me an asshole? Yeah. Would that diminish the murderer's responsibility at all? No.
Well, I just asked my sister and she said that she would be more upset at someone calling me a nobody with no loved ones after she dies than someone saying that I should just get over her death. Try it out on your end.
Again with the causation argument. Please refer to my example to see why causation does not always lead to assigning blame.
Didn't I already explain it above? It is implied that Jane knew this would he a fight to death along, which completely changes this conversa… moretion. Assuming Jane wanted to kill Kenny and/or want the fight to go to extreme lenghts, why would you compare it with someone who genuinely didn't know?
You should probably ask them and see what they respond.
Did it "force" Kenny's mistake? I guess that's a strong word since it could have been avoided, but it did cause it. Causing and forcing are two completely different words with different meanings. No matter how you look at it, Kenny's last breakdown happens thanks to Jane.
Their conversation was no more than a minute long. Probably considerably less than that. (IIRC) So the walkers weren't that far back. The group could have very well been in the cross hairs of the zombies, just look what happened to their avoidance tactics when it all went down hill. Imagine it going downhill even faster by A: Jane getting eaten right in from of them or B: Jane having to dash past all the walkers because she was so early on found out. It's definitely not out of the question to imagine shit hitting the fan sooner and resulting in more deaths. But what you're saying is that Jane, who it is implied is "sexually abused" by Troy, should give him a humane death and therefore put her life even more directly on the line and very likely die due to this? I find that.... very unreasonable. It's not fair to place the victims in charge of their culprits, even less so to expect them to very well give up their life to give them a more pleasant end.
When was that implied at all? It was implied that they had a deal going on.
Their conversation was no more than a minute long. Probably considerably less than that. (IIRC) So the walkers weren't that far back. The gr… moreoup could have very well been in the cross hairs of the zombies, just look what happened to their avoidance tactics when it all went down hill. Imagine it going downhill even faster by A: Jane getting eaten right in from of them or B: Jane having to dash past all the walkers because she was so early on found out. It's definitely not out of the question to imagine shit hitting the fan sooner and resulting in more deaths. But what you're saying is that Jane, who it is implied is "sexually abused" by Troy, should give him a humane death and therefore put her life even more directly on the line and very likely die due to this? I find that.... very unreasonable. It's not fair to place the victims in charge of their culprits, even less so to expect them to very well give up their life to give them a more pleasa… [view original content]
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You are the only one i spesifically called kid in this conversation. So far it doesnt seem like im falsely accusing of you being a kid.
You are kid if you act like one.
+1 for Clint Eastwood Orangutan reference.
And again, why did Kenny try to kill Jane? Because she got herself into a hell of a mess. We're just running in circles here. None of that would have happened if it wasn't for Jane's idea of unmasking Kenny. That automatically makes her the one responsible for what happened. Or at least most at fault. Did Kenny help the situation? He certainly didn't, but he wouldn't have gone nuts if it wasn't for Jane.
I wasn't talking about Sarita. It's about Katjaa and Duck.
"You're just another Type-A asshole trying to save a bunch of dead people."
You seriously think speaking that way of people who have passed away isn't disrespectful and sinful? That's cool, I guess.
And you're blaming him for trying to grab the knife he had previously been slashed with? At that point, it was a fight to death and he knew Jane wouldn't back off or miss an opportunity to kill him. Fact is, Jane took the knife out. It's possible to be killed in a regular one-on-one fight. As possible as when there is a knife involved and the two people have clearly lost their temper? Nope.
She could be, i mean autism is a spectrum disorder.
You said me and most of the community. You're being unnecessarily hypocritical. Admit it, you're a douche that blindly generalizes people when they don't agree with you. Have you read your posts? You accuse everyone of being children and not being able to read. So far it seems like you're the youngest of us all.
Then why are you acting like one, Zyke? Making half-assed assumptions of hundreds of people you haven't even met. It's sad to see this kind of posting.
No. It doesn't. That's not how culpability works, as I've explained. Unless you want to say that Jane's crime justified Kenny's, he's the one responsible for his crime, not her. And in my opinion, what she did was not adequate justification for his "going nuts" and killing her.
That sentence isn't "mocking" the dead people, just Kenny. It's still a mean thing to say, but so is "I know exactly what you are. Nothing. Nobody cares about you, and you don't care about nobody but yourself. That makes you nothing." Tell me that isn't an incredibly cruel thing to say to someone, especially someone as lonely as Jane.
Wouldn't that mean that Jane was justified in taking the knife out in the first place, as we saw that he charged at her and tried to choke her against the wall and then came at her again? Or do you not thing that Kenny came at her with the intention to kill, despite repeatedly saying as much?
So is Jane.
Both are traits i do not find attractive in a significant other.
Because thats true? Ive been here almost 2 months and i can already tell that this place is full of kids. Kids spamming threads full of memes because they didnt like the subject of conversation is good example.
I state that majority are kids and you are childish/kid (pretty much the same thing)? And i have pointed out more than once how you are unable to understand what you are reading.
Could you give me an example of how im being childish? You started this by treating yourself and your arguments as superior and attempted to make me look like a fool, after failing to read my messages properly.
Yes, it does. Jane caused the fight knowing one of then would most likely not walk away.
"I'll fuckin' kill you!"
"I...knew you would..."
She knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that she purposely engineered that situation so their differences would be solved once and for all makes her indirectly responsible for the chain of events that occur later.
Didn't I already agree that Kenny was out of line, too? The way I see it, they're far different insults. Kenny was personally offending her, but Jane resorted to calling out dead people once the "You're crazy and everyone hates you" joke got old. You simply can't compare the two of them. Now, Jane's insult afterwards is a fitting response.
"Everyone talks about you behind your back becaude they're afraid of you."
Was he just gonna beat her to death? Jane is not an idiot. She pulled out the knife waaay after Kenny tried to choke her. She proved she hang in there with him wihout making the fight a bloodbath. Without a knife, Clementine would have had a lot more time to stop the fight.
This is beauty.
I've been here a year. Going by your logic, that automatically makes me correct, right? Even if that was true, it doesn't give you the right to insult everyone else.
Actually, you started it by saying I was responding with pointless shit. I was being perfectly fair with you up to that point. You sir have a selective memory.
Generalizing most of us as being children and calling my argument pointless shit when you're out of responses isn't? I must be from Mars.
Its not like Troy had much of a choise
Carver was still talking steady so i guess the bullet missed a lot and Troy was screaming and screaming , only just listening to that makes it already obvious who suffered more
But then his responses are even weider if he thinks we all are kids aren't they?
Then it would make him the biggest kid for ranting on and on about little things and for what ? For very small subjects and makes them almost the most importabnt subjects in his mind
I apologise if i was a bit offensive but i was just answering
Its an assumption which is supported by the fact how childishly people behave on this forum.
There was nothing wrong with my reply. You failed to read my message and/or understand the point, something you seem you have problem with. I was arguing that Carver's suffered a lot longer/more than you implied and you thought i meant the moment when Kenny started beating Carver, even thought i just mentioned his kneecaps being shot off and lying on the ground for over 2 minutes. Considering what i was talking about from very start, your reply was just pointless shit.
It crippled Carver, it wasnt a miss and it doesnt matter what Carver shows to others, pain is still pain. He wasnt going to show any weaknesses to Kenny and faced his death "like a man" or "defiant to the end".
She obviously wasn't planning on being put in a position where he was going to kill her. She repeatedly tells him to back off and not touch her and tells Clem that she's not going to let Kenny near her. So no, she didn't intend for what ended up happening to happen. She thought she could control the situation but Kenny was too worked up for her to do that.
Again, she didn't "call out dead people." She called out Kenny for using dead people as an excuse for acting the way he acts. Which is hypocritical on her part, but not insulting to the dead people.
She saw him beat the living shit out of Arvo over a single "fuck you." Hell, she compared him to Carver. So yeah, of course she thought that he could have beaten/choked her to death. She pulls out the knife the second time Kenny lunges at her because the first time he lunged at her, he tried to choke her out against the wall.
I think hanging out with kids on message boards is a little weird. If I was a grown-up and I realised everyone else were kids, not sure how I'd feel about that.
How a few people behave automatically identifies the Forum as a whole? So if me and someone else start talking about touching little girl "Most of you" become rapists too?
....lol.
Everything is wrong with that statement. You can't expect respect in return when you fail to behave like a grown man and can't debate for a broken lamp.
Thanks. I think.
You'd go crazy trying to understand him. Just play along with us.
Did you fail to read my message once again? Example about kids spamming memes in threads they dont like to talk seriously about and overuse of memes in general.
How about if you spent some time reading my messages, so i wouldnt have to complain about you not reading them?
But, how can someone not expect a fight between two people who hate each other not go over the line and then say she knew that would happen all along? You could make the argument that she meant knowing that Kenny would react that way, but it's still the same. She knew he'd lose it and she would be forced to defend herself at whatever cost. You just don't tell someone "I knew you would" for no reason when he's about to kill you. Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt.
How is it not insulting, though? It's offensive to both Kenny and his family. How would you feel if you just lost a couple of family members and I walked up to you like "Jesus, Dome. Stop mourning a bunch of dead people and move on!"?
Again, she did have her reasons for taking the knife. Self-defense being it. It just doesn't change the fact that she was trying to drag herself out of her own hole. She pushed Kenny to his limits and came up with a sinister plan. At that point, whether right or not, Kenny saw her as a dangerous and decided that she needed to be valorized. Everything went to hell because of her.
What do the memes have to do with anything here? Why should a few people's behaviour affect the way "Most of us" are seen? You don't even understand what you're arguing for anymore.
How about you show people with different opinions respect so they don't have to complain about you being a scumbag?
Perhaps... But when it comes to you, I'm not sure if anybody can take you seriously with how you acting right now. You're acting like a angry 4 year old. From what I saw... You just hate it when you're wrong, and it bugs you deeply.
Honestly, boy-short hair is one of my biggest turn offs. Not to mention that she's fucking nuts.
So if he had just been shot and killed... where does that leave the group? With a bunch of walkers who just saw these other misfit walkers kill food without using their teeth. Uh oh time to run.
Of course. I know when to admit that it isn't the most sound argument. Since it didn't happen it's all speculation. It just makes sense that it could have panned out much worse if they did do what they did.
What about whatever events they used to murder Troy "humanely"? That surely would have nabbed the attention of some of the passerby zombies.
But that's exactly my point. That it didn't solely server Jane. It was no doubt satisfying for her, but it benefitted the groups escape also.
It's like he realized he was getting his butt kicked in the actual argument, so he had to resort to petty insults in order to take it off-topic.
Ironically enough, it backtracked since I'm undeniably calm while he gets angrier at me with every reply.
Who understands us children?
Yes, it was a very poor assessment of the situation on her part. but the possibility of the fight going over the line hinged on Kenny's decision. Let me take this to a much more extreme case. Suppose I were to let a murderer escape prison and he goes on to kill someone after being let out. Does my knowledge that he's a murderer and action of releasing him diminish his responsibility for his murders? No. While it's true that he wouldn't have been able to murder that other person had it not been for my action of releasing him, he still bears the full brunt of the responsibility for the murders that he commits.
Probably as bad as I'd feel if after I lost those family members, someone were to tell me that there's no one left who loves me and that I'm all alone.
Well it's not right and that matters. That's what I've been saying this whole time. She shouldn't have pushed Kenny, but her pushing him doesn't make it okay for him to kill her or erase his responsibility for doing so.
SaltLick305 drinks hand sanitizer!!!
Viva backs away into the darkness
Insult accomplished...
(?) SaltLick305 might remember that.
Time to run for Jane? Probably, the rest of the group would have still been safe since they were just standing there doing nothing. And again, the walkers only got that close because of how long Jane took to eliminate Troy. When he first comes out you can see they're considerably far.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely a possibility, but a highly unlikely one.
How so? Because of the shot? They were already walking towards Troy, so I doubt him dying would have stopped them from munching on the only person they saw talking. Then again, do we have any clue how walkers truly work?
We're agreed on the Jane part, we're not on the benefiting the group one. I already explained why I think it wasn't a huge help, if any. Unless we keep counting those five walkers who I already proved were most likely not a threat to anyone but Troy.
What autistic tenancies does she display that would be sufficient to place her on its diagnostic spectrum?
That's a rather questionable example, though. It's up for interpretion, but like I said above, on more than a couple of times was it implied that Jane planned this all along. She may not have, she might as well had. We're doing nothing but discussing which belief is the cloest to being correct. Whether Jane intented to kill Jane or not can change this whole conversation in a heartbeat.
Exactly. And how do you think they would feel? Amused? Not likely. Offended? Probably.
I've agreed many times that killing her should have been one if his last options. I'm just saying that Kenny wouldn't have made this mistake without Jane making hers in the first place. When rating mistakes, why should I hold the one who caused the rest in higher regard?
Their conversation was no more than a minute long. Probably considerably less than that. (IIRC) So the walkers weren't that far back. The group could have very well been in the cross hairs of the zombies, just look what happened to their avoidance tactics when it all went down hill. Imagine it going downhill even faster by A: Jane getting eaten right in from of them or B: Jane having to dash past all the walkers because she was so early on found out. It's definitely not out of the question to imagine shit hitting the fan sooner and resulting in more deaths. But what you're saying is that Jane, who it is implied is "sexually abused" by Troy, should give him a humane death and therefore put her life even more directly on the line and very likely die due to this? I find that.... very unreasonable. It's not fair to place the victims in charge of their culprits, even less so to expect them to very well give up their life to give them a more pleasant end.
Actually not so highly unlikely when you take into account the action of killing him would have then been imprinted on Jane and likely the other group members. I just hadn't considered the implications of Troy not being present to take eyes of them in that regards.
What do you mean? I thought you were talking about killing him humanely. Like a shot to the head. IF you are trying to be humane than a shot to the head is the only way to go at that point. Otherwise he is still alive, suffering, and is ripped to shreds. We aren't arguing about which part of his body to shoot in order to make it seem less like torture are we? A shot to the head means he is no longer taking.
Well yes, quite a bit actually.
But they were a threat to everyone, especially after they directly target Jane/the group after Troy is dead. Thereby starting off the shit storm that is their escape even earlier, without the benefit of being nearly half way through the herd before it happened. They would likely all be dead from trying to make it through the entire herd detected.
What the crucial difference that you think exists between my example of a negligent act causing a murder but not diminishing the responsibility of the murderer and the situation with Jane and Kenny involving her committing a negligent act that causes a murder but doesn't diminish Kenny's responsibility as a murderer? Taking my already extreme example even further, even if I let the murderer out, planning for him to murder someone, whether or not he does so is still up to him, thereby making him responsible for the murders committed.
Not really offended. Maybe offended for me, but they'd also be offended if someone were to call their family member an unloved "nothing."
I'm not in the business of rating Jane and Kenny's mistakes. I'm only pointing out that he is responsible for his mistake, just as as she is responsible for hers. Her mistake didn't force him into making his mistake. That's all I'm trying to say.
Ah no one knows about this phrase?
Jane isn't beautiful by the way.
Didn't I already explain it above? It is implied that Jane knew this would he a fight to death along, which completely changes this conversation. Assuming Jane wanted to kill Kenny and/or want the fight to go to extreme lenghts, why would you compare it with someone who genuinely didn't know?
You should probably ask them and see what they respond.
Did it "force" Kenny's mistake? I guess that's a strong word since it could have been avoided, but it did cause it. Causing and forcing are two completely different words with different meanings. No matter how you look at it, Kenny's last breakdown happens thanks to Jane.
Well I was going off of this statement of yours: "Maybe she didn't really believe it would go that way, but she realized it was a huge possibility and that didn't stop her from hiding the baby and acting all hurt." But if you now want to bring it back to assuming that Jane knew this would be a fight to the death, then sure. I amended my example above to have the me outright planning for the murderer to kill someone. Would that make me an asshole? Yeah. Would that diminish the murderer's responsibility at all? No.
Well, I just asked my sister and she said that she would be more upset at someone calling me a nobody with no loved ones after she dies than someone saying that I should just get over her death. Try it out on your end.
Again with the causation argument. Please refer to my example to see why causation does not always lead to assigning blame.
When was that implied at all? It was implied that they had a deal going on.
"Troy, we talked about this..."
Educate me on this, please.