This is my first post - I just had to make my opinions known since the original game is so dear to me.
The voices in the trailer definately lacked on the delivery side - Sam in particular sounded too monotonous. While I know he's supposed to sound quite film noire-ish, it doesn't sound natural or casual enough. Consider the delivery of a particular line from the original game: "I don't think the icepick will remove the cork". While it's certainly not a praticularly memorable line, the delivery is anything but monotanous. A whole game of the new guy's take on Sam could get irksome to sayt he least.
While I'm sure we can all appreciate the fact that securing the original voice actors isn't an option, I think Telltale should have no shame (or trouble) in finding voice actors who can immitate the originals almost flawslessly.
Why fix it if it ain't broken? Surely the best way to please fans is to give them what they want - and although not everyone is agreement, most of us want Sam & Max to sound like they did in the original game. When you consider that the majority of people who are interested in this game are huge fans of the first, surely it's a no-brainer?
Yeah good post.. I also agree about the comic timing..Theres ways to say a line that makes it sound hilarious..and theres ways not to.. Sams delivery in the trailer just had no comic punch at all.. very flat... even tho he has a very film noir sound..he is making a joke most of the time.. so you need that edge to him
I've never seen the cartoon, but my sister and I played Hit the Road to death, so the original voices are ingrained in my head. I've been trying to nail down what it is about the new voices that isn't working for me. Like others have said, I don't believe it is the voices, but more like the timing and intonation that doesn't seem quite right. The way Max delivers his lines is somehow too childish and cheerful (for example, "What's this? Are we dead?"). I think his voice fluctuates from high range to low range a little too much, making it seem stage-y, whereas Sam could use a little less monotony.
Sam also suffers from the "run-on syndrome" where it seems as though he's just trying to make it through an extraordinarily long line of dialogue instead of actually talking (the button mashers line, or underachieving art directors, for example). I know Hit the Road also had some overly verbose dialogue, but I think the voice actor was more successful at making it seem spontaneous instead of rehearsed. It may just be a matter of including more ups and downs in the voice, or varying the timing. I think some of the lines are done perfectly, like the commissioner line and shortcut line.
From an animation standpoint, I think it looks awesome! It's very snappy, I like the style. A couple of times it looks like the lip sync is off though. Like when Sam answers the phone, his nose bobbles a few frames too late after the word "Yes?" But that's just me being picky. It really does look great.
*EDIT* I also think it's telling that a lot of responses on this thread are from "Yaklings" who probably joined the forum specifically to comment on the voice acting. It shows me just how much people care about getting a good gaming experience from this new S&M game, every little detail from props to acting to editing and animation. Hit the Road is a tough game to live up to. But I think Telltale can pull it off!
Hey, since i never actually pllayed the original sam and max I think the voices are great. But i do agree about the delivery being a bit long it sounds a bit re-hearsed.
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful feedback. It's extremely helpful for us to hear not only if you like the voices, but if not, why not. Keep the comments coming!
The more I watch the trailer and compare it to the Hit the Road voices, the more I really like Sam. I think he's perfect, except for the candy pink fat boy line, which could use a little more fervour, as has been previously said. Max neither particularly impresses me or irritates me, though I lean towards liking him. The main thing I hope is that he doesn't become too generic wacky cartoon character sounding, which could happen quite easily.
The way Max delivers his lines is somehow too childish and cheerful (for example, "What's this? Are we dead?").
Good call. The line "Are we dead?" should be played with a hint of excitement (also laced with a scary cuteness) because Max's reaction needs to out of the ordinary.
And, yes it been said, but Sam's voice might just cut it if it sounded a little less "put on". If I try to copy Bill Farmer's voice, I end up with pretty much the same result.
New voices aren't going to ruin the project, but Telltale knows damn well that the Sam & Max following is big and that reaction like this goes to show that some players are going to not have a position reaction.
Put it this way, if you'd seen the trailer and it had Nick Jameson and Bill Farmer's voices, do you honestly think there would be a thread titled "the voices need to go"?
The way Max delivers his lines is somehow too childish and cheerful (for example, "What's this? Are we dead?").
Good call. The line "Are we dead?" should be played with a hint of excitement (also laced with a scary cuteness) because Max's reaction needs to out of the ordinary.
Personally, I really like the "What's this? Are we dead?"
lol
It makes me laugh.
Much as did lines like "I'd love to make a tennis racket out of him" and "Oooh! Oooh! I have an idea!" (when you use Max on the cat with the orders - I might have the first line wrong there)
I feel that Sam's "Can't think of a reason not to" sounds strained, really forced and as far as the intonation goes, out of place (I'll agree that the timing's good for that line, but the delivery's a bit off in my opinion).
Psyham's got it right: I also registered just to comment on the voices
I watched the trailer quite a few times and I can't say I noticed any timing issues. In fact, the co-ordination between the actors was much better than it is in other games, where you have those awkward half-second pauses while the next line's sound file loads. I'm guessing you guys got both actors in the recording studio at the same time, rather than have them each record his lines on his own as is standard practice elsewhere? If not
I also found Max's voice a bit too childish and innocent, though I'm not going to rant as he only has half a dozen lines in the trailer and it's hard to judge - it could turn out to be a funny contrast to his ultraviolent tendencies. However, I'd prefer a delivery closer to the original game's, with a slight psychopathic edge to the way he says even the most innocuous line. Sam was pretty good, the Bogart-style suits him, though he is a bit too deadpan overall: a few moments of enthusiasm would enliven his character immensely.
I brought my Brand Spankin' New Sam & Max T-Shirt into the office this morning. It caught the attention of another gamer and I noticed the new trailer while showing him where I got the shirt. We watched it together. Throughout the trailer, I felt a little embarrassed.
The first time I saw the S&M2 trailer, I thought it was 'right'. It made my day. My initial reaction to this was "Shoot, Windows Media Player is broken again -- there's no video!" Maybe I'm the only one...
Comparing the voice actors in the trailer with Sams and Maxes of the past is simply inevitable. I have spent a lot of time with the voices of Farmer and Jameson and they get to be the standard. I'm going to try and explain why their voices work and why the new ones don't hit that standard. Remember, I'm basing this on the Freelance Police trailer on YouTube and my memories of Hit the Road. Your mileage may vary.
Specific (constructive?) criticisms:
The voices aren't loud enough. The sound effects and music stomp all over the actors. Listen to Max's shuffling feet in the FP trailer while he says his line. Compare with Sam's "Good thing I know a shortcut" line in the Gametap trailer.
On second thought... Maybe it's not about being loud but full. I like the deep and rich tone of Farmer's Sam. He's BIG and furry and so is his voice and those qualities make him come off as "kindly shamus". The almost normal one.
Because Sam's voice isn't as strong in the trailer, his unwieldy lines lack directness -- the matter-of-fact delivery you expect to get out a cop. I think the button-mashers line is a little weak (and the classic S&M 'is that a word?' comeback was bobbled <sigh>). It's a line that wants to be funny but isn't. So deliver it directly, wait a proper half-beat, and then have Max come in with his comeback.
I just can't shake the feeling that if Sam's lines were read slower and with a little emphasis (less flat), they'd sound better. The words need to sink in, even if they're silly. ("episodic sociopathic lagomorph" continues to make me cringe when I know it's a great S&M line)
If Sam isn't going to have a deep, full voice like Farmer's, just clear out the low end for him -- don't make him share space with car's engine, he'll sound weak in comparison.
And now, Max. He sounds like a child. That ain't right. Max may be adorable, but he's an adult. He may be psychopathic, energetic, and fun, but he's an adult. The weakness in his voice is literally that -- he sounds as if he's pleading, like a child, putting all his energy into reaching the high end where he hopes he can be heard. His S's sound lispy, again like a mushmouthed child. Max is supposed to be very confident in his utterly insane actions, even the cute ones.
Grab your copy of Hit the Road, watch the intro, and listen to Jameson's delivery of "Should I confront, subdue, and pummel the suspected perpetrator Sam?" That's psychopathic, energetic, and fun and it's a line from an adult who knows what he's doing -- violence. His child-like glee that comes from his violent acts is what I find funny and even adorable, and it should not be confused with the idea of a childish character inflicting violence. I know this distinction gets blurred when you contrast Max with Sam, as Sam is more fatherly without the whole thing being dragged down by him being a father figure. <sigh> I feel like I'm losing you... Let's try the short form:
Get the 'child' out of Max's voice. His lines are less "Kids say the darnedest things" and more "Hannibal Lector is surprisingly likable!"
Sam & Max actively defy description. The best parts of Max start well beyond "Hyperkinetic Rabbity Thing". I expect other fans will disagree with my labels above. I am interested in hearing why I'm wrong from everyone.
I've been listening to the trailer in the background while I've been reading through this whole thread. Here's what I've come up with:
Sam sounds alright to me. I can live with his voice. It's not the one from the old game, but it's not enough to make me not want to get this game. Max's, however, just gets on my nerves. I think JustADecoy got it right, Max comes across as a little kid you just want to punch to get to shut up. He's suppose to be crazy not a 6 year old trying to annoy you. As I said I've been listening to this video for a bit now and I'm pretty sure I think I've hit upon what annoys me.
First, seems like Sam's setting up the jokes and Max is trying to finish them, however the timing seems to be all off. The jokes are set up and then just not finished when they should be; it's hard to say what's wrong with the timing, it's just that it doesn't seem to flow.
Secondly, the pitch doesn't seem to work. I'm not saying the pitch isn't that of the old game, that's not my beef. My problem is that both Sam and Max seem to be going up in pitch as they say their lines. When Max says "So, where are we heading this time, Sam?" is a prime example of this. It makes him come across as less of a crazed killer bunny and more of J. Random Sidekick, age 6, and prone to not shutting up when he should.
Thirdly, it’s just not that funny. Now I really can't say if this will reflect the game, but the movie that I saw didn't make me laugh. However, when I saw the LucasArts one while reading through the thread, I laughed. I think it's partly the voices, more of the timing, and possibly the fact that TTG (wanting to drop an L in there) is trying to mention something of a plot.
I'd also like to say, Please Do Not Use the Announcer in the Game. He gets me even more annoyed than Max.
Cant think of a reason not too - I think this line in the original game is a good example of Sam's voice pitch and inflection that people find lacking in the new trailer. When Sam says this in the new trailer it sound distinctly flat!!
However, this isnt an ingame trailer I dont think, so I strongly feel they will be working on the voices more anyway.
I was extremely disappointed when I first heard that the voice actors from Hit the Road were not voicing Sam and Max in the Telltale version of the game.
Then... I watched the trailor. It was great. Of course not the same, but I breathed a sigh of relief. I was excited again.
Then I read this thread and realized that those may not even be the eventual voices, and was again disappointed.
My final comment is this: Whoever you get to do the voices should NOT try to create their own thing. They should listen to the voice track from Hit the Road and try to do their best to copy the voices.
My final comment is this: Whoever you get to do the voices should NOT try to create their own thing. They should listen to the voice track from Hit the Road and try to do their best to copy the voices.
I wish I had time right now to read everything in this thread. But for now, my verdict is:
These voice actors will work as Sam & Max -- if they figure out how to get the delivery just right. I think they have the right tone of voice, and they sound like they have enough skill.
Certainly I feel ungrateful to pick on such things, but it's better than everyone keeping quiet and being unsatisfied. There's still time to fix it.
I also think Max's facial expressions are too stiff. when he smiles the sides of his mouth should reach all the way to the side of his head filling pretty much all of the lower half of his face.
His mouth seems too deep into his head making him have fat lips.
It needs to be shallower like in this picture so it can almost wrap around his face instead of being deep in there.
Thought I'd sign up just to add my 2cents to the matter since everyone else already has.. but firstly I'll say that I hope Telltale doesn't take the voices too lightly.. while there is more important things for a game, what made S&M (and many other LucasArts adventure games) a classic with such replay value was because of the excellent voice work it had in it.
The only way I'm going to wind up playing an adventure game more than once (and want to cycle through all the different dialogue branches) is if it provides me with an entertaining experience outside of the gameplay.. and that's where it all lies in the voice work. Now with that said...
If you can't get the original VA's from Hit The Road then yeah there is always going to be some issues, but lets put that aside any just focus on do they do the job, entertainment wise? And unfortunately that's a no at this stage
Firstly Sam.. his voice probably isn't quite as 1950's (40's, 30's whatever) detective as you'd ideally want but it's not too bad. The real killer is that the delivery is just plain off. I don't know if it's because it just sounds too clinical like reading lines off a cue-card or if it's just a lack of comical timing, but the lines just don't have that instant quotability that the original game had (and it's not for a lack of writing).
Actually to go back to the 1950's detective thing.. that may tie in.. coz when you think of all those guys.. and even just the actors in that kind of black & white period of movies, their delivery was always really interesting (possibly due to all the over-enunciation going on back then as well).
And then there's Max.. his delivery and comic timing doesn't seem too off, but the actual voice is the problem here. It wasn't easy to pick out at first but the more you listen to it, the more it grates. Most likely the reason is what these guys here are saying, because he comes off more like an irritating kid. Max is definately more of a problem than Sam.
Firstly Sam.. his voice probably isn't quite as 1950's (40's, 30's whatever) detective as you'd ideally want but it's not too bad. The real killer is that the delivery is just plain off. I don't know if it's because it just sounds too clinical like reading lines off a cue-card
If you watch any 1950's detective movie, the detectives always sound as if they're reading lines of a cue-card. Just watch The Maltese Falcon: they're cramming huge lines into only a couple of seconds... exactly like Sam is doing.
By the way, when I first heard Sam, he sounded -exactly- like George Lowe when he does Space Ghost. Weird.
Although the voices here aren't perfect (if Max lost his lisp, that would already be a huge improvement), but I like them a lot better than the voices in the cartoon show. All in all, I'm happy with the voices, but if they could get the original Hit The Road voices, that would be even more awesome.
Firstly Sam.. his voice probably isn't quite as 1950's (40's, 30's whatever) detective as you'd ideally want but it's not too bad. The real killer is that the delivery is just plain off. I don't know if it's because it just sounds too clinical like reading lines off a cue-card
If you watch any 1950's detective movie, the detectives always sound as if they're reading lines of a cue-card. Just watch The Maltese Falcon: they're cramming huge lines into only a couple of seconds... exactly like Sam is doing.
No it's still not right.. Even though those guys may not have been huge on emoting, their delivery was really *interesting* This is just too flat and sterile for my liking. Like someone else said, in the original S&M you could listen to Sam say "I can't use those two things together" for hundreds of times and not get sick of it. It's an intangible thing, but once you hit it, you've got gold
Hmm. No, I can't say that there's anything interesting or lively about the deliverance in 50's detective movies. Watch The Big Sleep, or The Maltese Falcon. Bogie just drones on and on at exactly the same tone and volume, and at far too high a speed to convey any emotion.
And I don't really think it's fair to compare indefinitely repeated dialogue from the original game to the teaser. First of all, this is just a teaser, and we really need a lot more dialogue than these five lines to come to an established opinion. Secondly, this is new. Hit the Road is a classic. You've played that over and over and thus, managed to grow familiarity with it. You've loved every aspect of the original game for years. That makes it really hard to form an objective opinion on something 'new'.
When the MI3 demo came out, I was incredibly disappointed when Guybrush first spoke. He didn't sound at all like what I had come to know as Guybrush's voice in my head. He sounded like a whiny nerd. Turns out that Dominic Armato's performance was absolutely perfect.
The voice actors in the trailor SOUND like voice actors trying to BE Sam & Max.
In the original HIT THE ROAD game, Jameson & Farmer WERE Sam & Max...
There's a big difference...much like when the voice actors from THE SIMPSONS went on strike and demanded higher wages; the producers tried getting other similar voice-actors on board, but somehow something wasn't quite right. (The result was the original voice actors had their demands met).
I will say the new voices lack some character right now. I'd argue most of that is because, like stated previously, they're trying too hard to mimic the original voices and are too focused on that instead of putting character into well.. their characters.
There has to be a line where fans accept the fact that the new voices will be different. Trying to have them sound like the original voice actors won't work because they never will.
They need to sound like Sam and Max, not necessarily like Farmer and Jameson.
As long as the new voices get into it, and stay true to the character, they can be completely effective. Different sure, but you get over that. I'm afraid if they spend the entire time trying to appease fans by sounds like the original guys, its just going to fall flat.
Hmm. No, I can't say that there's anything interesting or lively about the deliverance in 50's detective movies. Watch The Big Sleep, or The Maltese Falcon. Bogie just drones on and on at exactly the same tone and volume, and at far too high a speed to convey any emotion.
And I don't really think it's fair to compare indefinitely repeated dialogue from the original game to the teaser. First of all, this is just a teaser, and we really need a lot more dialogue than these five lines to come to an established opinion. Secondly, this is new. Hit the Road is a classic. You've played that over and over and thus, managed to grow familiarity with it. You've loved every aspect of the original game for years. That makes it really hard to form an objective opinion on something 'new'.
When the MI3 demo came out, I was incredibly disappointed when Guybrush first spoke. He didn't sound at all like what I had come to know as Guybrush's voice in my head. He sounded like a whiny nerd. Turns out that Dominic Armato's performance was absolutely perfect.
All a matter of opinion I guess. I can listen to guys in noir movies for days (i can't speak for Bogart tho because ironically I haven't heard any of his performances (for shame)), and yes i realize that Sam didn't sound exactly like Bogart or whoever.. because it was a still a comical take on the stereotype. And also I loved the delivery in the original Sam & Max instantly -- there wasn't no matter of coming to love it. You could put that down to there being nothing to compare it to back then, and while this is true, I don't believe that's the be and end all of the matter
The fact is that from the dialogue we have been given (and that's the point of the thread.. not to speculate and predict what the final product will be like) doesn't hold up for me. Not necessarily in a "oh they don't sound like the original guys" sense (although that will always be at play subconsciously for any of us), but just in a "will these performances entertain me if this is the final standard?"
Obviously they're good enough for you, and that's fine. But not everyone shares those views unfortunately
Also, it's hard to tell, but I think the guy doing Sam may be dropping out of character ever so slightly during some sentences. Which would go in line with the whole argument that they're focusing too much on imitating the original VAs and not enough on being true to the character.
Max doesnt sound zany enough and Sam doesnt sound sarcastic enough.
In the first section Max really should sound more desperate with the "I got it, I got it!!" It should be far more insistant and frantic. Ironically this is the part that the person doing Sam does well on. However from there on in though the voices are SOLID the delivery lacks.
Max is too.... sedate and Sam just isnt punchy enough.
If SAM & MAX's maws opened faster and more rapidly, we'd get more of a 'slapstick' effect rather than the lazy, somewhat delayed, somewhat lethargic response we're currently witnessing. In that trailer, in a couple scenes, Sam's really gunning the speech really fast, and if his mouth opened further and quicker, the effect would be far more satisfying. In fact, it might resolve the whole 'voices' issue.
Try it for yourself - play the trailer and listen to just the music and imagine their jaws really slapping together, rather than them carefully mouthing each vowel and consonant.
The audio is actually perfect. Just need the mouths to be more 'rubber-bandy'. I just listened to the audio again - it's really awesome. The mouths need to snap and close shut, open a bit wider, give MAX a bit of spittle when he pronounces 'TH, F/V, and K' , almost like 1 frame animation mouth positions with no inbetweens. Think 'Sock-puppet' and you're almost there.
And also I loved the delivery in the original Sam & Max instantly -- there wasn't no matter of coming to love it.
That's not what I meant. What I meant was that you've spent so much time enjoying the original games, that the original voices became the de facto standard that all other Sam & Maxes have to live up to. That makes it disproportionately hard for any new voices to be likable.. They have to stand up to a certain test that other media (which you haven't spent so much good time with) don't.
Given one of the questions in the Telltale Survey regarding making games based on TV licenses, and given the feedback on the 2 female characters in the CSI game, and all this feedback on Sam & Max...
I do feel sorry for Telltale when they can't get the original actors to voice the lines for their games. We know they tried to get Famer / Jameson / Fox / Helgenberg but things just didn't work out.
This discussion is going to reoccur regularly, isn't it, with each new non-original IP that they sign up?
Heck, even Bone, which had never been voiced before still drew concerns from those whose mind's voices didn't gel with the game's voices. Of course 2 voices were recast for Bone 2 and Thorn is still a contentious issue for some, but on the whole by Episode 2 pretty much everyone was used to the voices and there seemed to be very little negative feedback at all on the Cow Race in that regard.
So, I'm wondering if both the actors AND the audience will settle into the voices by the time the 2nd Sam & Max episode rolls off the production line...
I do feel sorry for Telltale when they can't get the original actors to voice the lines for their games. We know they tried to get Famer / Jameson / Fox / Helgenberg but things just didn't work out.
Good to see another Kiwi...
Anyway, I really (really) respect Telltale Games. I simply refuse to look at LucasArts since they cancelled S&M to focus on MORE boring Star Wars games and have pledged to never buy another one of their products. So when Telltale games picked up the licence, it was a great day for all adventure gamers. I must've played Hit the Road over a thousand times (just finished it 2 weeks ago on my PDA) and it remains my all time favourite game.
So this is big for me. I really want to help Telltale games to make the game as good as it can be, because I know people still love adventure games (and i'd love Telltale to stick it to LucasArts [>:)] )
So get Farmer. Get Jameson. Call the agents, find out what it will take and make it happen. If they cost too much, tell us and we'll get Bone selling like hotcakes to make it work.
Let's help make Telltale Games big. They need our support and they need our input. I think complacency and indifference are the biggest threats to this project, so the sooner we let them know our thoughts, the more likely S&M will be the adventure game we all want it to be
So, I'm wondering if both the actors AND the audience will settle into the voices by the time the 2nd Sam & Max episode rolls off the production line...
Of course they will. I mean look at the comments in this thread. Nobody really knows what they mean when they say that Sam's voice is too deadpan or that Max's voice is trying too hard. The only problem with the new voices is that they're not the old ones. Fans don't know what they want., and I'm not just talking about voices here. Telltale pays attention to what the fans say, but in the end they have a plan and they're going to do what they see is fit for the series and within their own constraints, and I'm sure it's going to be great. I'm more inclined to trust the judgment of game building veterans, and, you know, Steve Purcell himself, about how to handle a Sam & Max game than my own whims as a forumer. As has been said, the fact that so many people are offering their suggestions is a great sign about the vitality of the license, but as to how the company should respond, well, this article seems more true everytime I read it.
* Of course Telltale should listen to the fans and they do, but it's not like they're going to restructure the game fundamentally based on every suggestion/criticism/command.
So get Farmer. Get Jameson. Call the agents, find out what it will take and make it happen.
They said they can't. Not "We can't unless the following conditions are met."
Ok everyone, lets all come to some common conclusions here:
I dont care what anyone here says, i bet you, with 99.9% certency, that those voices in the trailer will be the voices of Sam & Max in the new game series, so we can all quit saying "I think so and so should do so and so".
As for things like timing and volume of voices. Well, it was pretty obvious by watching that trailer, that it was made to be a trailer.
Those graphcis were more than likely gameplay, but I dont think any of it was actual game play footage. So to say the timing was off there, is kinda pointless, it was something put together to have something to show for the game. Final timing and script writing in the game, I'm sure is something more easily improved upon.
Again, if you really think, that having different voice actors than the ones that were in the game 13years ago, is going to totally ruin it for you, then I'm sorry to say you miss the point of the game. Sam & Max are comic book characters, they didnt even have a voice at their conception, and the fact that its different now, shouldnt take away from the game.
Besides, the voice actors from 13 year ago would probably sound different to you all by now anyways. 1) theyre 13 years older and 2) They probably dont even remember how to sound right
For example, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, great game, excellent, Tim Curry did an amazing job as the voice of Gabriel. Second game came out in the "live action" era, and kinda sucked, mainly cause it lacked the same feel as Sins of the Fathers did. Then, Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned, the 3rd game, came out, and Tim Curry reprised his role. He still did an excellent job, but as someone who played Sins of the Fathers for probably 100 hours, I could tell the voice sounded a little different, BUT THE GAME WAS STILL GOOD.
My point is, alot of you are whining like the game is going to suck because your choice for a voice actor isnt in it.
Hate to say it, but too bad, watch the trailer, and get used to em, cause thats what youll be hearing. And I think its still going to be great, if you dont...well then....
Lucas Arts has a new Indiana Jones game in the works full of puzzles that involves throwing people at cars and beating them with objects, maybe thatll be more your style.
Fans don't know what they want., and I'm not just talking about voices here. Telltale pays attention to what the fans say, but in the end they have a plan and they're going to do what they see is fit for the series and within their own constraints, and I'm sure it's going to be great. I'm more inclined to trust the judgment of game building veterans, and, you know, Steve Purcell himself, about how to handle a Sam & Max game than my own whims as a forumer.
* Of course Telltale should listen to the fans and they do, but it's not like they're going to restructure the game fundamentally based on every suggestion/criticism/command.
I agree I definitely trust Steve Purcell overseeing this to ensure a sam and max game isn't put out that isn't quality.. but if a lot of the fans are saying the same thing it pays to take notice..especially since these people will be the ones paying for the game..
I don't agree with that article.. Yes some fans will be resistant to change..Yes some will complain about everything.. but I think if you take a balanced view of what everyone is saying you can pick up some good points. I think the improvement from Bone 1 to Bone 2 showed what good feedback can do and how telltale was able to use it and still make the game they wanted. B-)
sam is all wrong tho.. he has sort of got the sound of the voice down..but the delivery is all wrong.. it sounds like he's focusing more on gettin the sound right and is missing out on delivering the line right with the right comic intonations.. Either this guy needs to be recast or he has to start delivering the lines better than that..so they are funny.. just listen to the hit the road stuff to hear how its done..
I just wanted to say that I agree fully with this description of Sam's voice in the trailer. Max worked well and I am more than happy with that but Sam's just left me cold and uncaring for the character.
As for things like timing and volume of voices. Well, it was pretty obvious by watching that trailer, that it was made to be a trailer.
...
it was something put together to have something to show for the game.
...
Again, if you really think, that having different voice actors than the ones that were in the game 13years ago, is going to totally ruin it for you, then I'm sorry to say you miss the point of the game.
...
the fact that its different now, shouldnt take away from the game.
...
THE GAME WAS STILL GOOD.
Ok everyone, lets all come to some common conclusions here:
I dont care what anyone here says, i bet you, with 99.9% certency, that those voices in the trailer will be the voices of Sam & Max in the new game series, so we can all quit saying "I think so and so should do so and so".
As for things like timing and volume of voices. Well, it was pretty obvious by watching that trailer, that it was made to be a trailer.
Those graphcis were more than likely gameplay, but I dont think any of it was actual game play footage. So to say the timing was off there, is kinda pointless, it was something put together to have something to show for the game. Final timing and script writing in the game, I'm sure is something more easily improved upon.
Again, if you really think, that having different voice actors than the ones that were in the game 13years ago, is going to totally ruin it for you, then I'm sorry to say you miss the point of the game. Sam & Max are comic book characters, they didnt even have a voice at their conception, and the fact that its different now, shouldnt take away from the game.
Besides, the voice actors from 13 year ago would probably sound different to you all by now anyways. 1) theyre 13 years older and 2) They probably dont even remember how to sound right
For example, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, great game, excellent, Tim Curry did an amazing job as the voice of Gabriel. Second game came out in the "live action" era, and kinda sucked, mainly cause it lacked the same feel as Sins of the Fathers did. Then, Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned, the 3rd game, came out, and Tim Curry reprised his role. He still did an excellent job, but as someone who played Sins of the Fathers for probably 100 hours, I could tell the voice sounded a little different, BUT THE GAME WAS STILL GOOD.
My point is, alot of you are whining like the game is going to suck because your choice for a voice actor isnt in it.
Hate to say it, but too bad, watch the trailer, and get used to em, cause thats what youll be hearing. And I think its still going to be great, if you dont...well then....
Lucas Arts has a new Indiana Jones game in the works full of puzzles that involves throwing people at cars and beating them with objects, maybe thatll be more your style.
Ok everyone, lets all come to some common conclusions here:
I dont care what anyone here says, i bet you, with 99.9% certency, that those voices in the trailer will be the voices of Sam & Max in the new game series, so we can all quit saying "I think so and so should do so and so".
As for things like timing and volume of voices. Well, it was pretty obvious by watching that trailer, that it was made to be a trailer.
Those graphcis were more than likely gameplay, but I dont think any of it was actual game play footage. So to say the timing was off there, is kinda pointless, it was something put together to have something to show for the game. Final timing and script writing in the game, I'm sure is something more easily improved upon.
Again, if you really think, that having different voice actors than the ones that were in the game 13years ago, is going to totally ruin it for you, then I'm sorry to say you miss the point of the game. Sam & Max are comic book characters, they didnt even have a voice at their conception, and the fact that its different now, shouldnt take away from the game.
Besides, the voice actors from 13 year ago would probably sound different to you all by now anyways. 1) theyre 13 years older and 2) They probably dont even remember how to sound right
For example, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, great game, excellent, Tim Curry did an amazing job as the voice of Gabriel. Second game came out in the "live action" era, and kinda sucked, mainly cause it lacked the same feel as Sins of the Fathers did. Then, Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned, the 3rd game, came out, and Tim Curry reprised his role. He still did an excellent job, but as someone who played Sins of the Fathers for probably 100 hours, I could tell the voice sounded a little different, BUT THE GAME WAS STILL GOOD.
My point is, alot of you are whining like the game is going to suck because your choice for a voice actor isnt in it.
Hate to say it, but too bad, watch the trailer, and get used to em, cause thats what youll be hearing. And I think its still going to be great, if you dont...well then....
Lucas Arts has a new Indiana Jones game in the works full of puzzles that involves throwing people at cars and beating them with objects, maybe thatll be more your style.
The second Gabriel Knight game was the best!
I reckon the voice actors will ease into it. I'm beginning to think SAM's spot on, and maybe MAX's voice could be a little more sharp. Geez, I'm holding my gonads waiting for this game. Ouchies.
Funny you should bring up Gabriel Knight. I was just thinking of that myself. Tim Curry's GK1 is noticeably different than his GK3, and there were only about five years between those two games. I wouldn't envy Farmer and Jameson if they DID have to try to reprise their roles after this long. They're not Sam & Max -- they're two guys who voiced Sam & Max 13 years ago, with a lot of other voice work in between!
(And as an aside - GK2 is my favorite of the series, also. )
I wouldn't envy Farmer and Jameson if they DID have to try to reprise their roles after this long. They're not Sam & Max -- they're two guys who voiced Sam & Max 13 years ago, with a lot of other voice work in between!
Well, didn't they kind of do it with Freelance Police? Not just the trailer, voice sessions for game dialog were held.
I wouldn't envy Farmer and Jameson if they DID have to try to reprise their roles after this long. They're not Sam & Max -- they're two guys who voiced Sam & Max 13 years ago, with a lot of other voice work in between!
Well, didn't they kind of do it with Freelance Police? Not just the trailer, voice sessions for game dialog were held.
And you've heard them and can judge them? I know I haven't (though I'd love to out of curiosity). But, for all intents and purposes those don't exist.
Nono, for all I know they're complete shit, I'm just pointing out that they did have to try to reprise them, so Emily's pity doesn't have to be theoretical.
Comments
Yeah good post.. I also agree about the comic timing..Theres ways to say a line that makes it sound hilarious..and theres ways not to.. Sams delivery in the trailer just had no comic punch at all.. very flat... even tho he has a very film noir sound..he is making a joke most of the time.. so you need that edge to him
Sam also suffers from the "run-on syndrome" where it seems as though he's just trying to make it through an extraordinarily long line of dialogue instead of actually talking (the button mashers line, or underachieving art directors, for example). I know Hit the Road also had some overly verbose dialogue, but I think the voice actor was more successful at making it seem spontaneous instead of rehearsed. It may just be a matter of including more ups and downs in the voice, or varying the timing. I think some of the lines are done perfectly, like the commissioner line and shortcut line.
From an animation standpoint, I think it looks awesome! It's very snappy, I like the style. A couple of times it looks like the lip sync is off though. Like when Sam answers the phone, his nose bobbles a few frames too late after the word "Yes?" But that's just me being picky. It really does look great.
*EDIT* I also think it's telling that a lot of responses on this thread are from "Yaklings" who probably joined the forum specifically to comment on the voice acting. It shows me just how much people care about getting a good gaming experience from this new S&M game, every little detail from props to acting to editing and animation. Hit the Road is a tough game to live up to. But I think Telltale can pull it off!
Good call. The line "Are we dead?" should be played with a hint of excitement (also laced with a scary cuteness) because Max's reaction needs to out of the ordinary.
And, yes it been said, but Sam's voice might just cut it if it sounded a little less "put on". If I try to copy Bill Farmer's voice, I end up with pretty much the same result.
New voices aren't going to ruin the project, but Telltale knows damn well that the Sam & Max following is big and that reaction like this goes to show that some players are going to not have a position reaction.
Put it this way, if you'd seen the trailer and it had Nick Jameson and Bill Farmer's voices, do you honestly think there would be a thread titled "the voices need to go"?
Personally, I really like the "What's this? Are we dead?"
lol
It makes me laugh.
Much as did lines like "I'd love to make a tennis racket out of him" and "Oooh! Oooh! I have an idea!" (when you use Max on the cat with the orders - I might have the first line wrong there)
I feel that Sam's "Can't think of a reason not to" sounds strained, really forced and as far as the intonation goes, out of place (I'll agree that the timing's good for that line, but the delivery's a bit off in my opinion).
I watched the trailer quite a few times and I can't say I noticed any timing issues. In fact, the co-ordination between the actors was much better than it is in other games, where you have those awkward half-second pauses while the next line's sound file loads. I'm guessing you guys got both actors in the recording studio at the same time, rather than have them each record his lines on his own as is standard practice elsewhere? If not
I also found Max's voice a bit too childish and innocent, though I'm not going to rant as he only has half a dozen lines in the trailer and it's hard to judge - it could turn out to be a funny contrast to his ultraviolent tendencies. However, I'd prefer a delivery closer to the original game's, with a slight psychopathic edge to the way he says even the most innocuous line. Sam was pretty good, the Bogart-style suits him, though he is a bit too deadpan overall: a few moments of enthusiasm would enliven his character immensely.
The first time I saw the S&M2 trailer, I thought it was 'right'. It made my day. My initial reaction to this was "Shoot, Windows Media Player is broken again -- there's no video!" Maybe I'm the only one...
Comparing the voice actors in the trailer with Sams and Maxes of the past is simply inevitable. I have spent a lot of time with the voices of Farmer and Jameson and they get to be the standard. I'm going to try and explain why their voices work and why the new ones don't hit that standard. Remember, I'm basing this on the Freelance Police trailer on YouTube and my memories of Hit the Road. Your mileage may vary.
Specific (constructive?) criticisms:
Sam & Max actively defy description. The best parts of Max start well beyond "Hyperkinetic Rabbity Thing". I expect other fans will disagree with my labels above. I am interested in hearing why I'm wrong from everyone.
Sam sounds alright to me. I can live with his voice. It's not the one from the old game, but it's not enough to make me not want to get this game. Max's, however, just gets on my nerves. I think JustADecoy got it right, Max comes across as a little kid you just want to punch to get to shut up. He's suppose to be crazy not a 6 year old trying to annoy you. As I said I've been listening to this video for a bit now and I'm pretty sure I think I've hit upon what annoys me.
First, seems like Sam's setting up the jokes and Max is trying to finish them, however the timing seems to be all off. The jokes are set up and then just not finished when they should be; it's hard to say what's wrong with the timing, it's just that it doesn't seem to flow.
Secondly, the pitch doesn't seem to work. I'm not saying the pitch isn't that of the old game, that's not my beef. My problem is that both Sam and Max seem to be going up in pitch as they say their lines. When Max says "So, where are we heading this time, Sam?" is a prime example of this. It makes him come across as less of a crazed killer bunny and more of J. Random Sidekick, age 6, and prone to not shutting up when he should.
Thirdly, it’s just not that funny. Now I really can't say if this will reflect the game, but the movie that I saw didn't make me laugh. However, when I saw the LucasArts one while reading through the thread, I laughed. I think it's partly the voices, more of the timing, and possibly the fact that TTG (wanting to drop an L in there) is trying to mention something of a plot.
I'd also like to say, Please Do Not Use the Announcer in the Game. He gets me even more annoyed than Max.
However, this isnt an ingame trailer I dont think, so I strongly feel they will be working on the voices more anyway.
Then... I watched the trailor. It was great. Of course not the same, but I breathed a sigh of relief. I was excited again.
Then I read this thread and realized that those may not even be the eventual voices, and was again disappointed.
My final comment is this: Whoever you get to do the voices should NOT try to create their own thing. They should listen to the voice track from Hit the Road and try to do their best to copy the voices.
How would that yield the better result?
These voice actors will work as Sam & Max -- if they figure out how to get the delivery just right. I think they have the right tone of voice, and they sound like they have enough skill.
Certainly I feel ungrateful to pick on such things, but it's better than everyone keeping quiet and being unsatisfied. There's still time to fix it.
I also think Max's facial expressions are too stiff. when he smiles the sides of his mouth should reach all the way to the side of his head filling pretty much all of the lower half of his face.
His mouth seems too deep into his head making him have fat lips.
It needs to be shallower like in this picture so it can almost wrap around his face instead of being deep in there.
The only way I'm going to wind up playing an adventure game more than once (and want to cycle through all the different dialogue branches) is if it provides me with an entertaining experience outside of the gameplay.. and that's where it all lies in the voice work. Now with that said...
If you can't get the original VA's from Hit The Road then yeah there is always going to be some issues, but lets put that aside any just focus on do they do the job, entertainment wise? And unfortunately that's a no at this stage
Firstly Sam.. his voice probably isn't quite as 1950's (40's, 30's whatever) detective as you'd ideally want but it's not too bad. The real killer is that the delivery is just plain off. I don't know if it's because it just sounds too clinical like reading lines off a cue-card or if it's just a lack of comical timing, but the lines just don't have that instant quotability that the original game had (and it's not for a lack of writing).
Actually to go back to the 1950's detective thing.. that may tie in.. coz when you think of all those guys.. and even just the actors in that kind of black & white period of movies, their delivery was always really interesting (possibly due to all the over-enunciation going on back then as well).
And then there's Max.. his delivery and comic timing doesn't seem too off, but the actual voice is the problem here. It wasn't easy to pick out at first but the more you listen to it, the more it grates. Most likely the reason is what these guys here are saying, because he comes off more like an irritating kid. Max is definately more of a problem than Sam.
If you watch any 1950's detective movie, the detectives always sound as if they're reading lines of a cue-card. Just watch The Maltese Falcon: they're cramming huge lines into only a couple of seconds... exactly like Sam is doing.
By the way, when I first heard Sam, he sounded -exactly- like George Lowe when he does Space Ghost. Weird.
Although the voices here aren't perfect (if Max lost his lisp, that would already be a huge improvement), but I like them a lot better than the voices in the cartoon show. All in all, I'm happy with the voices, but if they could get the original Hit The Road voices, that would be even more awesome.
But don't you see spit coming out of Max's mouth when he's talking? In my head, Max should be lisping. Not necessarily like a kid though.
No it's still not right.. Even though those guys may not have been huge on emoting, their delivery was really *interesting* This is just too flat and sterile for my liking. Like someone else said, in the original S&M you could listen to Sam say "I can't use those two things together" for hundreds of times and not get sick of it. It's an intangible thing, but once you hit it, you've got gold
And I don't really think it's fair to compare indefinitely repeated dialogue from the original game to the teaser. First of all, this is just a teaser, and we really need a lot more dialogue than these five lines to come to an established opinion. Secondly, this is new. Hit the Road is a classic. You've played that over and over and thus, managed to grow familiarity with it. You've loved every aspect of the original game for years. That makes it really hard to form an objective opinion on something 'new'.
When the MI3 demo came out, I was incredibly disappointed when Guybrush first spoke. He didn't sound at all like what I had come to know as Guybrush's voice in my head. He sounded like a whiny nerd. Turns out that Dominic Armato's performance was absolutely perfect.
The voice actors in the trailor SOUND like voice actors trying to BE Sam & Max.
In the original HIT THE ROAD game, Jameson & Farmer WERE Sam & Max...
There's a big difference...much like when the voice actors from THE SIMPSONS went on strike and demanded higher wages; the producers tried getting other similar voice-actors on board, but somehow something wasn't quite right. (The result was the original voice actors had their demands met).
I will say the new voices lack some character right now. I'd argue most of that is because, like stated previously, they're trying too hard to mimic the original voices and are too focused on that instead of putting character into well.. their characters.
There has to be a line where fans accept the fact that the new voices will be different. Trying to have them sound like the original voice actors won't work because they never will.
They need to sound like Sam and Max, not necessarily like Farmer and Jameson.
As long as the new voices get into it, and stay true to the character, they can be completely effective. Different sure, but you get over that. I'm afraid if they spend the entire time trying to appease fans by sounds like the original guys, its just going to fall flat.
All a matter of opinion I guess. I can listen to guys in noir movies for days (i can't speak for Bogart tho because ironically I haven't heard any of his performances (for shame)), and yes i realize that Sam didn't sound exactly like Bogart or whoever.. because it was a still a comical take on the stereotype. And also I loved the delivery in the original Sam & Max instantly -- there wasn't no matter of coming to love it. You could put that down to there being nothing to compare it to back then, and while this is true, I don't believe that's the be and end all of the matter
The fact is that from the dialogue we have been given (and that's the point of the thread.. not to speculate and predict what the final product will be like) doesn't hold up for me. Not necessarily in a "oh they don't sound like the original guys" sense (although that will always be at play subconsciously for any of us), but just in a "will these performances entertain me if this is the final standard?"
Obviously they're good enough for you, and that's fine. But not everyone shares those views unfortunately
Also, it's hard to tell, but I think the guy doing Sam may be dropping out of character ever so slightly during some sentences. Which would go in line with the whole argument that they're focusing too much on imitating the original VAs and not enough on being true to the character.
Max doesnt sound zany enough and Sam doesnt sound sarcastic enough.
In the first section Max really should sound more desperate with the "I got it, I got it!!" It should be far more insistant and frantic. Ironically this is the part that the person doing Sam does well on. However from there on in though the voices are SOLID the delivery lacks.
Max is too.... sedate and Sam just isnt punchy enough.
Try it for yourself - play the trailer and listen to just the music and imagine their jaws really slapping together, rather than them carefully mouthing each vowel and consonant.
The audio is actually perfect. Just need the mouths to be more 'rubber-bandy'. I just listened to the audio again - it's really awesome. The mouths need to snap and close shut, open a bit wider, give MAX a bit of spittle when he pronounces 'TH, F/V, and K' , almost like 1 frame animation mouth positions with no inbetweens. Think 'Sock-puppet' and you're almost there.
That's not what I meant. What I meant was that you've spent so much time enjoying the original games, that the original voices became the de facto standard that all other Sam & Maxes have to live up to. That makes it disproportionately hard for any new voices to be likable.. They have to stand up to a certain test that other media (which you haven't spent so much good time with) don't.
I do feel sorry for Telltale when they can't get the original actors to voice the lines for their games. We know they tried to get Famer / Jameson / Fox / Helgenberg but things just didn't work out.
This discussion is going to reoccur regularly, isn't it, with each new non-original IP that they sign up?
Heck, even Bone, which had never been voiced before still drew concerns from those whose mind's voices didn't gel with the game's voices. Of course 2 voices were recast for Bone 2 and Thorn is still a contentious issue for some, but on the whole by Episode 2 pretty much everyone was used to the voices and there seemed to be very little negative feedback at all on the Cow Race in that regard.
So, I'm wondering if both the actors AND the audience will settle into the voices by the time the 2nd Sam & Max episode rolls off the production line...
Good to see another Kiwi...
Anyway, I really (really) respect Telltale Games. I simply refuse to look at LucasArts since they cancelled S&M to focus on MORE boring Star Wars games and have pledged to never buy another one of their products. So when Telltale games picked up the licence, it was a great day for all adventure gamers. I must've played Hit the Road over a thousand times (just finished it 2 weeks ago on my PDA) and it remains my all time favourite game.
So this is big for me. I really want to help Telltale games to make the game as good as it can be, because I know people still love adventure games (and i'd love Telltale to stick it to LucasArts [>:)] )
So get Farmer. Get Jameson. Call the agents, find out what it will take and make it happen. If they cost too much, tell us and we'll get Bone selling like hotcakes to make it work.
Let's help make Telltale Games big. They need our support and they need our input. I think complacency and indifference are the biggest threats to this project, so the sooner we let them know our thoughts, the more likely S&M will be the adventure game we all want it to be
Of course they will. I mean look at the comments in this thread. Nobody really knows what they mean when they say that Sam's voice is too deadpan or that Max's voice is trying too hard. The only problem with the new voices is that they're not the old ones. Fans don't know what they want., and I'm not just talking about voices here. Telltale pays attention to what the fans say, but in the end they have a plan and they're going to do what they see is fit for the series and within their own constraints, and I'm sure it's going to be great. I'm more inclined to trust the judgment of game building veterans, and, you know, Steve Purcell himself, about how to handle a Sam & Max game than my own whims as a forumer. As has been said, the fact that so many people are offering their suggestions is a great sign about the vitality of the license, but as to how the company should respond, well, this article seems more true everytime I read it.
* Of course Telltale should listen to the fans and they do, but it's not like they're going to restructure the game fundamentally based on every suggestion/criticism/command.
They said they can't. Not "We can't unless the following conditions are met."
I dont care what anyone here says, i bet you, with 99.9% certency, that those voices in the trailer will be the voices of Sam & Max in the new game series, so we can all quit saying "I think so and so should do so and so".
As for things like timing and volume of voices. Well, it was pretty obvious by watching that trailer, that it was made to be a trailer.
Those graphcis were more than likely gameplay, but I dont think any of it was actual game play footage. So to say the timing was off there, is kinda pointless, it was something put together to have something to show for the game. Final timing and script writing in the game, I'm sure is something more easily improved upon.
Again, if you really think, that having different voice actors than the ones that were in the game 13 years ago, is going to totally ruin it for you, then I'm sorry to say you miss the point of the game. Sam & Max are comic book characters, they didnt even have a voice at their conception, and the fact that its different now, shouldnt take away from the game.
Besides, the voice actors from 13 year ago would probably sound different to you all by now anyways. 1) theyre 13 years older and 2) They probably dont even remember how to sound right
For example, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, great game, excellent, Tim Curry did an amazing job as the voice of Gabriel. Second game came out in the "live action" era, and kinda sucked, mainly cause it lacked the same feel as Sins of the Fathers did. Then, Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned, the 3rd game, came out, and Tim Curry reprised his role. He still did an excellent job, but as someone who played Sins of the Fathers for probably 100 hours, I could tell the voice sounded a little different, BUT THE GAME WAS STILL GOOD.
My point is, alot of you are whining like the game is going to suck because your choice for a voice actor isnt in it.
Hate to say it, but too bad, watch the trailer, and get used to em, cause thats what youll be hearing. And I think its still going to be great, if you dont...well then....
Lucas Arts has a new Indiana Jones game in the works full of puzzles that involves throwing people at cars and beating them with objects, maybe thatll be more your style.
I agree I definitely trust Steve Purcell overseeing this to ensure a sam and max game isn't put out that isn't quality.. but if a lot of the fans are saying the same thing it pays to take notice..especially since these people will be the ones paying for the game..
I don't agree with that article.. Yes some fans will be resistant to change..Yes some will complain about everything.. but I think if you take a balanced view of what everyone is saying you can pick up some good points. I think the improvement from Bone 1 to Bone 2 showed what good feedback can do and how telltale was able to use it and still make the game they wanted. B-)
I just wanted to say that I agree fully with this description of Sam's voice in the trailer. Max worked well and I am more than happy with that but Sam's just left me cold and uncaring for the character.
Amen.
The second Gabriel Knight game was the best!
I reckon the voice actors will ease into it. I'm beginning to think SAM's spot on, and maybe MAX's voice could be a little more sharp. Geez, I'm holding my gonads waiting for this game. Ouchies.
(And as an aside - GK2 is my favorite of the series, also.
Well, didn't they kind of do it with Freelance Police? Not just the trailer, voice sessions for game dialog were held.
And you've heard them and can judge them? I know I haven't (though I'd love to out of curiosity). But, for all intents and purposes those don't exist.