Becca VS Clementine Not in a fight but a character comparision
CrazyGeorge
Banned
So like, i was thinking and you know what Becca even though she is a brat, she plays a real convincing brat. Clementine on the other hand imo doesn't play a convincing eleven year old girl. She acts like a adult pretty much the entire game. The interactions between Becca, they treated her like a kid. If you remember shel actually sticks up for Sarah, when Becca starts to pick on her, Clementine ignores it, which makes her more emotionless.
I think they need to totally rewrite the personality of Clementine. If you are going to put her in the next Season, make her realistic character. A believable one. That is why i am going to say , even though Becca is a brat, imo she is better written Character than Clem S2.
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sorry i disagree, just because Clem is young that doesnt mean she needs to be immature.
you missed the point. Her immaturity made her a believable character, Clementine as a emotionless robot is not a believable character. How adults interact with her, her expectations, they even make jokes about it, like when Kenny says " Well shoot clementine, you are more reliable than 3 adults."
k
Not a fight? That's disappointing, I want to see blood.
To be fair they had to give Clementine most of the tasks to do since you play as her, but yeah, in terms of story it's pretty ridiculous. I think that she really lacks emotion in her voice, too; no matter if you say something mean, nice, happy or angry she sounds the same and her expression is mostly the same. I agree that she's way too capable for her age, and in a sense Becca is a more interesting character. I hate her guts, but she puts on a tough facade although she is clearly shaken up about how the world has changed, no matter what she says (ex.trembling when/if you kill the man, saying she'll shoot Stephanie but getting shocked if Shel agrees and angrily changes her mind). She's a character with many layers, and I would've loved it if we'd had the change to get to know her better in season 2. She's clearly not a bad person, she just has flaws that gets on your nerves just like Sarah and Ben had. And all of those 3 child characters are so hated because they're making mistakes, have flaws and aren't "badass" or overly-capable like Clem. They act the way many young people would and in my opinion that's what makes them better.
I find the "kid" characters my favorite to be honest. Ben is a coward, and liar, but he was also religious. It kind of makes you wonder what was going through his mind, especially after Carley/Doug, how did he deal with the guilt. They missed an oppertunity with Ben, same with Sarah. I just want Clementine to feel more organic when playing her if they choose to use her as S3 Protagonist.
I wish they could made her role more believable instead of having her treated as an adult most of the time and expecting her to do all the work, (And take the blame when it all goes to hell.) she wasn't a convincing kid because the writers didn't quite know how to realistically handle her as protagonist. I thought they did pretty well with Clem in the first episode, but things started to go downhill after that.
And I think I mentioned this not too long ago, Becca has grown on me a lot. She reminds me a little bit of Carl from the show, now that I think of it. .3.
i'm peaceful in my old age. I calmed my bed considerably.
When put into a position like the zombie apocalypse, kids are probably the most affected out of anyone else mentally speaking. Adults never had a childhood taken away from them and lived a normal life for the most part before the world went to hell. Kids, they end up having to grow up in a world where you have to basically fight to survive and if you don't adapt to it, you die. Kids are pushed into a position where they have to grow up and become responsible in order to survive in this new world, they don't get to have a childhood basically and it causes them to grow up faster than they should. Carl from the comics is similar to Clementine in that he was a child who's entire childhood was taken away from him and his mentality changed to that of survival, and it caused him to become much colder and emotionless as a result. Carl went from this:
to this:
Carl is one to take charge of a situation and acts a lot older than his age, similar to the way Clementine acts in Season 2. In a zombie apocalypse, you cannot stay a child or you will die, like Sarah. You have to become stronger, and that requires you to grow up faster, and you see that in Clementine, she has changed, she has given up her childhood and has grown up and has become more adult like. Becca, on the other hand, is just a brat who acts tough but is all talk and no bite (like Carl from the show). So when we're talking about comparing their characters, I prefer Clementine because she symbolizes what children go through who face the situations of a zombie apocalypse first hand and her portrayal in S2 is understandable due to everything she's seen and done.
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It's interesting that you compare Carl with Becca in a negative tone, saying she's just a brat when you just previously stated that Carl went through change that felt genuine.
It's one thing to be a kid more serious and mature due to the circumstances around them, and being a kid who can do just about everything. If Clem would be believable she would at least have some flaws, like maybe not having the right answers all the time for example, or having ultra-strength to help her kick in locked doors (added just for her "badassery", I assume). I also think it's a good thing she's not exactly the same as in season one, because that wouldn't be believable either. But that doesn't mean she has to be a robotic Mary Sue.
i seen some "adults" that are very ignorant.
After everything Carl's been through I consider him a lucky one since he still has family. Clem's always around strangers, which is why you won't see anybody telling her to "stay inside the house" or "sit this one out."
i agree
I used both forms of Carl, the comic and T.V. show versions. I said the comic version is a lot like Clementine, someone who has grown up and adapted to his surroundings, while the T.V. show version is a lot like Becca, someone who talks a big game but never has the stones to follow through with what they say. These 2 Carl's are entirely different when it comes to their personality. And when you play No Going Back, she showed a lot more emotion in that episode then she did in the previous episodes. In that episode, she's smiling, laughing, crying, and shows that she still has a bit of that childhood innocence from Season 1 (the kissing stuff line, showing that, while she acts like an adult, she is still a kid at heart). The door thing is bullshit, I've said that in the past, as have hundreds of others, and it makes no sense. Also, I didn't say it on the other thread, welcome to the forums.
Both are boring cunts
Aah I see, I didn't know because I haven't watched the TV-show. I still think that, while Clem (can't really speak for Carl since I haven't read much of the comics yet) adapting to the ZA and being capable to do some stuff that adults can do too is perfectly fine and not out of character for her, she's written in a way that just doesn't seem real for a kid - even one growing up in the ZA - in many of the situations she's in. They probably made her this way to be more likable among the fans, because everyone seems to love her doing things so awesomely. If she was scared and froze in place sometimes or messed up at some part, people would probably be annoyed with her.
You're right about episode 5 in some scenes, but I just wish they'd done that for ALL of the episodes.
And thanks! :]
Becca's situation is different from Clementine in that Becca still had her older sister around. Roman tries to lecture Shel for "trying to give her an easy life"...so if Shel weren't around they wouldn't be treating Becca as they do...Clementine had parental figures, but no blood kin...no familial authority figure...kids in industrialized and Western societies, after the implementation of child labor laws, are treated as if they're helpless and for their own good don't do "adult" work...there was a time when kids Clementine's age or younger, could hold jobs and do the same type of work as adults and were expected to be able to do it...
The only thing that separates Clementine from her adult companions now is the fact that she hasn't reached sexual maturity yet (i.e.menstruation) but that will come with age...so in that respect she is still very much a child. But in other regards she's can be just as capable as the adults
I liked Becca, but Clem is still better
The comics are great, I'd highly recommend you read those, as is the show, but the show isn't for everyone since it can get really slow at times, but it's still great in my opinion.
Hmmm... So tempting to shamelessly plug Thunderslate's fic.
I think that comparing Becca with Clem is kinda futile since the ammount of info we know about both characters is so uneven.
We know that Clementine was once and very ethic-driven person, that his father was an engineer, that her mother was a doctor, that she hates math, we are also capable to know what she is capable to do and what she has went through since we saw it throught the enterity of Season 1 and Season 2 (and playing as her in Season 2).
What do we know about Becca? We know she has an older sister, that she likes to play guitar and that she has a kinda crooked sense of humour and can be very bitter at times. We got 20 minutes of her, we don't know who her parents were, we don't know how she was before the apocalypse, we don't know how she was during the early months of the apocalypse...
Sean Ainsworth the director of 400 Days and Shel's story said that Becca idea as a character was to be a reflex of what Clementine could became in the future if she decided to confront her world by becaming emotionless or trying to look emotionless (and IMO depeniding on how ou played as Clementine she could be even more emotionless and ruthless than Becca ever was), so in a way Becca's character was a "character device "
I am actually reading my eyes out, but I haven't gotten that far because I started just a couple of days ago
currently on volume 3! Never could get into the show, but my brother says it's great, and then there's this Daryl guy everyone's talking about...
As much as I hate to admit it, I find Becca more believable and relatable than Clementine thus far.
Throughout Season 2, Clementine barely had much of a character of her own other than the 'overly competent' and 'hardened' kid survivor, and comes across as too superficial and bland in comparison to how she used to be in Season 1. She rarely has a moment to herself and be more true to herself and remind the audience that she's still a little girl in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.
Becca on the other hand, from what we've seen from her screentime in 400 Days and her pointless cameo in Episode 3, she had more character and believability. She's flawed but not completely unlikable, she puts on a tough exterior but has some hidden depths underneath her harsh shell, and though she agrees to some extreme pragmatic ideals she still hesitates to follow them.
It's sad when a girl with ten-twenty minutes of screentime has more depth and believability than our protagonist who we played as since the beginning of Season 2.
i think the problem was the lack of hubs. Clementine isn't ever really given a chance to interact with the NPCs unless it's to drive the story forward...the few chances that do come up, she's blown off by everyone.
At Howe's, Mike and Jane immediately shun her if they're approached....if you talk to Sarah she tells you that she can't talk b/c she's trying to be good...Rebecca expresses having wanted to have been nicer to Alvin and then tell Clem to go away...Nick, pretty much tells Clem to get some rest for the next day...but that's about it...that would've been a great time for Clementine to get to know the people she's been traveling with...A House Divided would've been a great opportunity for that too...
A lot of problems Season 2 had with character building would have been fixed if Season 2 had made the effort to develop hubs and make character interaction optional, just as they did for Season 1.
That's what appeal most players, the opporuntity to learn more about characters, and more importantly, care about them. Instead we had underdeveloped characters killed off for drama or to make other characters sympathetic.
Yeah, he's definitely the most popular character from the show and a huge reason why it's so popular. He's a great character, but a little overrated. There are some people that only watch the show for Daryl though, saying, "If Daryl dies, we riot," and stuff like that. But Daryl is an original character from the show, don't expect to see him in the comics.
And that would have happened had the writers been able to make the episodes as long as they need them to be instead of making them an hour and a half and forcing the writers to cram everything in so that it could fit within that time frame.
I don't think the problem was with Clementine's character: children are the most effected by a situation like an apocalypse, so it's no surprise that she's become colder and has to adapt fast to survive. Okay, so the fact that she can kick down doors and fend of fully adult zombies is a bit stupid, but there's nothing wrong with Clementine's character at all- she had to change to survive, and I personally prefer the current Clementine's character.
What I will say is that TT made a mess of determining were her character was going. There seemed to be a comparison between her and Carver running through the entire of S2, and there was that # myclementine thing. I was expecting that you could either make Clementine a colder, harder character or keep most of her charming, childish character from S1 depending on your decisions, but when the season ended I still didn't know who Clementine was and the fact that (with me, for example) Clementine watched Carver get his head smashed in and a load of other stuff didn't seem to effect her character at all. Her character was never solved, but that's a flaw in the storytelling and not in Clementine's character.
As for the treating her like an adult part, that again is to do with the other characters rather than Clementine's character. Clem didn't volunteer to do all the stuff she had to do, the other characters just put her into those situations. Like when Carlos told her to switch off the wind turbine- I mean come on, you couldn't do it so how can you expect a little girl to know better!? But that was the fault of other characters, not Clementine's fault.
I think TT went around the whole Clementine still being a kid thing the wrong way: what they should have done is, instead of treating her like an adult, the other characters should have been overly protective and relieve her of any responsibility because she's a kid. Then maybe you'd have the choice to accept that or maybe you could try to prove that your not any other 11-year old and shouldn't be treated like your defenceless. That sort of conflict would have made the game more interesting.
Having said all of the above, let us remember that this is the apocalypse- your not young or old, rich or poor, white or black, male or female. Your either living or your not. And in such situations perhaps the other survivors can expect Clementine to adapt. Having said this though, lets be realistic: take the plan for escaping from Howe's- would you really rest your hopes with an 11-year old girl? Maybe if Clem was older than yes, but she's 11!
Still, my overall point is that you shouldn't blame Clem's character- you should blame the other characters, who's whole approach towards Clementine was unrealistic.
Yeah so have i, doesn't mean as a grown man i would delegate authority to a eleven year old girl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoKU6m-yaNQ&feature=player_detailpage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qcwGv2YOI7k
Oh god, thank you for this masterpiece xD
Becca would have been a better fit for Season 2 Clementine's role.
What then would become of Clementine, an off-screen death? Becca couldn't survive five episodes, she's a dummy. Who would guide her to becoming a proper survivalist, Shel?
Well Clementine did lose pretty much everything:
Parents she saw dead
Babysitter dead
Killed Lee/Saw Lee Die
Saw Carley get murdered
Killed/saw Stranger get killed
Saw Lee kill the st. John's(s)
Saw Omid get killed
So it takes a toll on the mind of a human fictional or not.
Becca still has her sister. Which is not much but you can tell how close they are.
And if Clementine couldn't control herself it makes everything that Lee told her about being strong in Season 1 meaningless.
Clementine is obviously not a typical 11 year old girl. At one point she was a typical 8 year old girl, but that was before the dead started to walk, remember? Clementines character is perfectly written as far as I'm concerned. She's years developed in a zombie apocalypse. Why would she have some sort of emotional breakdown caused by name calling, when's she's been slashing adult sized zombies over the head with a hatchet for the past two years?
Simple: Clementine's story would be left ambiguous with the epilogue of Season 1, and Season 2 would focus on the cast of 400 Days. No need for off-screen deaths.
Only in these forums you would hear such nonsense.
"Oh man I've seen the entire human population be wiped out, lost my childhood and most of my loved ones, even had to shoot the most important person in my life!, I've been very very hungry for the past 2 years so I'm gonna cry like a baby cuz a random girl was mean to me"
I disagree about the wind turbine thing....Carlos didn't tell her to do it. Carlos asks if anyone knows what to do and Clementine actually volunteers to do it...now whether she should've done it or been allowed to whatever...that's a different story, but as you said, that's not really any fault of her character
and Carlos does protest when Luke wants Clementine to check the bridge with him, but Clementine says that she can do it. But that could've offered an interesting dynamic if they had pushed it more.
and when they're escaping Howe's, the herd idea was Jane's...getting the walkie talkies....I think Clem was the best option for the endeavor...she's the smallest so she would have an easier time sneaking around unnoticed, being able to hide behind things better...And i think having her go in the vent in the meat locker to find a way out was way more dangerous given her inexperience.
Pretty sure you say that because like so many others on the forum, you see the 400 days characters as "wasted potential", right?
I'm starting to think maybe Telltale shouldn't have done the DLC, so as to stop the water works. Leaving Clementines story ambiguous? Lets be honest, everyone wanted to know what happens next, not switch protagonist, but since Clems story I assume left a bad taste in your mouth, you feel we should've just tried our hand at Becca instead? Becca would die as protagonist or if she were to survive, she'd have the role of deuteragonist, maybe even tritagonist since everyone likes to argue realism so much..
well said