People thoug that the scenes with him in the second half of the season really didn't tell us anything we already knew and that they should've just left him out after the fourth episode at least until the finale, since we basically just see torture poem
What do you find poor? I know people had a lot of problems with them showing his torture but I never agreed with that. They only have a few … moreminutes each out of ten episodes to establish a lot of character development and I thought they did as well as they could to establish Theons eventual transformation.
I think people were missing the point, which was to show what it took to make Theon so broken that he wouldn't even allow his sister to rescue him. Having him disapear for half a season and then suddenly be Ramsays slave wouldn't cut it. People would then be asking where that came from. In the book you got to be in his head to understand his change. In a tv show, we had to see it.
People thoug that the scenes with him in the second half of the season really didn't tell us anything we already knew and that they should'… moreve just left him out after the fourth episode at least until the finale, since we basically just see torture poem
Are you referring to the books or show? I remember Roose speaking to Walder Frey about sending Ramsey to Winterfell to get Theon. He mentions the Ironborn betraying Theon and under Robb's order to send them free. Roose then said Ramsey had other ideas, insinuating Ramsey and the Dreadfort soldiers went crazy after securing Theon.
Ah, I see, yeah your right. Also I double checked, nope your right, Ramsay burns Winterfell after the ironborn betray Theon, so I guess I can chalk up yet another atrocity that the Bastard of Bolton has done, and that list is getting fairly long.
I watched the show before I read the books. I didn't think I could like her any less after watching the show, but I was wrong. So I agree with you. At least in the show 1/4 of the Danaerys scenes aren't just her trying to decide who she wants to bone.
I agree, fuck Danaerys, I dare say what you see in the show is better, because there is part in the books where she says outloud that Ned Stark deserved what he got, that pissed me off to no end.
Victarion is a badass but is always living the shadow of his brothers(at least Euron and Balon), even when both of them aren't around. I'm hoping Asha's leg heals and she fucking wrecks everyone.
Theon is a pansy that deserves everything he gets. Unfortunately the Greyjoy get no love whatsoever in the book AND in the series.
I pers… moreonally love the ironborn. They are the vikings of the setting, but are kept as random background bad guys, with no depth whatsoever.
But i hope Victarion fixes that
Right, forgot to mention that aspect... Frankly I never liked her storyline all that much because I always saw it as spinning in circles. I know it's become pretty much a meme at this point, but really, are you ever going to take revenge for the death of your family, or are you just going to chill in Essos forever? And the relationship aspect was horrible, I mean good god, her relationship with Daario Naharis is not terrible in the show, in the books its an unhealthy relationship to the say the least. Really it only makes me feel really bad for Lord Friendzone, seriously give him a break!
I watched the show before I read the books. I didn't think I could like her any less after watching the show, but I was wrong. So I agree … morewith you. At least in the show 1/4 of the Danaerys scenes aren't just her trying to decide who she wants to bone.
Theon was one of my favs before he became Reek. Now I keep hoping he gets his comeback but I know he is pretty much done for.
He was the definition of a guilty king (well, yeah, he was only a lord but it still applies.) until he became Reek. Do what you think is right no matter the cost. Even if it turns out to be wrong in the end. At least you did the thing you believed in at the time.
i love theon. it's easy to just say he betrayed the starks, and of course he did, but he has his own family too. i always feel bad for him. but i only started feeling that way when i read the books. when i only watched the series i thought he was a total scumbag.
Theon was one of my favs before he became Reek. Now I keep hoping he gets his comeback but I know he is pretty much done for.
He was the … moredefinition of a guilty king (well, yeah, he was only a lord but it still applies.) until he became Reek. Do what you think is right no matter the cost. Even if it turns out to be wrong in the end. At least you did the thing you believed in at the time.
I think Theon is definitely one of the more interesting character arcs in the series. I don't really enjoy reading his chapters -- not because I find him untolerably annoying, though he very... frustrating at times -- but because his character seems doomed by his own hand. He created the circumstances of his fall, so you're justified in not feeling pity for him, but that's what I find intruiging about his character is that I do pity him despite his short comings.
I think he'll have a bigger role to play with Winterfell in the next books, it would be great to see his arc go from burning his old home in the name of his 'true' family to reclaiming it on behalf of the one that actually raised him.
I feel really sorry for Theon, I think he regrets his mistakes. Yara is pretty cool too in my opinion. I hope they look into the Greyjoys more actually.
I think general consensus is that the TV show interpretation of Daenerys is the most boring character as it robs her off all the good qualities she had in the books.
Well Theon did terrible things but lets not forget that it was starks fault too, when you grow up with someone even if he was a captive he was still part of family and straks were keeping to remind him and john snow otherwise,in all his life the only thing he wanted was to be aknowleged by his father and the people around him and that was a apart of his arrogant behavior but of course that doesnt justifie his actions.
Theon was one of my favs before he became Reek. Now I keep hoping he gets his comeback but I know he is pretty much done for.
He was the definition of a guilty king (well, yeah, he was only a lord but it still applies.) until he became Reek. Do what you think is right no matter the cost. Even if it turns out to be wrong in the end. At least you did the thing you believed in at the time.
First of all, sorry if i make some mistakes trying to explain myself. English is not my first language.
Theon did not betray the Starks. For the Starks he was just a hostage they took from the Greyjoys to prevent them from rebeling again. Theon was never treated with any love or respect in Winterfell with the exception of, maybe, Robb. He grew up without any kind of love and this made him a very insecure person. He is always acting so cool to hide this deep insecurity, and you can really feel that while reading his chapters in "Clash Of Kings"
Robb was really a fool when he decided to send him to the Iron Islands. I can understand why he did that but he should have thought about it more. Put yourself in Theon's shoes: You were separated from your family at a very young age to be taken to another family of complete strangers who treat you like that, a stranger. You finally have the chance to return home and all you recieve from your family is disdain. Even your own family don't consider you one of their own. What will you think or do in that situation?
He had a really hard time, and "betraying" the Starks was something he never was happy with (Then again, in Theon's chapters you can really feel that), but he was just trying to gain the respect of his real family, and some acceptance... something he never had. And even knowing that what he's doing is really bad he knows that he's gone too far and can't go back, wich makes him feel powerless.
What comes after is well known... he is used by Ramsay (He was the one who poisoned his mind and made him kill the miller boys, among other things) and taken hostage AGAIN, and start being tortured and dehumanized to the point that he forgets all he was, he forgets even his name. Even so, and i won't be talking about it very much in case some of you did not read "Dance of Dragons" he finally gets a glimpse of lightness in one of the most beautiful redemption arcs i've seen.
For me, Theon is the most real character in the whole story. A beatiful character with flaws but really human. From a lector point of view you can really hate him but think about being in his situation and how would you have acted then.
Really my favourite character in the novels and the show. Alfie Allen is a great great actor.
He did betray the Starks. I think that is without question. Robb trusted him because they grew up like brothers. Theon was treated more or less like Ned Starks squire. He was well fed, well taken care of. He resented the fact thst he was a hostage which i completely understand, but he was treated respectfully by the family. Guess who didnt treat him with respect. His own family. Theon was the fool for believing he could rule over Winterfell for one thing, and for believing his family would pat him on the back for what he did, and he realized that he was wrong when Ramsay captured him and he said that his real father (Ned) died at Kings Landing.
I Feel that Theon is genuinely regretful of his actions and so deserves forgiveness and his redemption will come.
First of all, sorry if i make some mistakes trying to explain myself. English is not my first language.
Theon did not betray the Starks. … moreFor the Starks he was just a hostage they took from the Greyjoys to prevent them from rebeling again. Theon was never treated with any love or respect in Winterfell with the exception of, maybe, Robb. He grew up without any kind of love and this made him a very insecure person. He is always acting so cool to hide this deep insecurity, and you can really feel that while reading his chapters in "Clash Of Kings"
Robb was really a fool when he decided to send him to the Iron Islands. I can understand why he did that but he should have thought about it more. Put yourself in Theon's shoes: You were separated from your family at a very young age to be taken to another family of complete strangers who treat you like that, a stranger. You finally have the chance to return home and all you recieve from your fami… [view original content]
Robb trusted him but he never treated him as a brother. Theon was not treated bad in Winterfell, that is true, but he was always reminded of his condition as a hostage. He was never fully integrated. You blame him for trying to get the acceptance of his real family? I do not. Taking Winterfell was drastic, something he did to prove himself to his family, and then he was left alone again, because none of them trusted him, with the exception of Asha.
He realized he was wrong just by the moment he entered Winterfell. That scene you are talking about is a scene from the show. In the books that never happens. All the time he's in Winterfell he keeps thinking that what he's doing is bad, and blaming himself but knowing he cannot go back. He is being manipulated by Ramsay, as i said, who makes him kill and do terrible things.
I really can understand why people say that he betrayed the Starks, and maybe that is not entirely wrong.... but i am just trying to prove that everyting is much more complex than that.
He did betray the Starks. I think that is without question. Robb trusted him because they grew up like brothers. Theon was treated more or l… moreess like Ned Starks squire. He was well fed, well taken care of. He resented the fact thst he was a hostage which i completely understand, but he was treated respectfully by the family. Guess who didnt treat him with respect. His own family. Theon was the fool for believing he could rule over Winterfell for one thing, and for believing his family would pat him on the back for what he did, and he realized that he was wrong when Ramsay captured him and he said that his real father (Ned) died at Kings Landing.
I Feel that Theon is genuinely regretful of his actions and so deserves forgiveness and his redemption will come.
Theon himself admitted that Robb never did anything to make him feel that way. It was just in his mind, seeing Robb as this man set for greatness as the beloved son of Ned, and probably hearing nothing at all from his own family, he became resentful because he wanted what Robb had, but i saw nothing in their interactions to indicate that Robb didnt care for him.
I dont blame him for wanting to be accepted by his family, but the way he went about it was foolish, something they all agree on. And i know that doesnt happen in the books, but the sentiment is the same. He made a mistake and he regrets it.
I have a lot of sympathy for Theon because he was young and he made some terrible decisions and now he is feeling the brunt of that, but my argument was with the idea that he never betrayed the Starks because, I guess you think they deserved it for taking him? To turn your back on somewhat who trusts you is betrayal and he did care for Robb like a brother, that i absolutely believe. As he said in the books, he wished he had died with him.
Robb trusted him but he never treated him as a brother. Theon was not treated bad in Winterfell, that is true, but he was always reminded of… more his condition as a hostage. He was never fully integrated. You blame him for trying to get the acceptance of his real family? I do not. Taking Winterfell was drastic, something he did to prove himself to his family, and then he was left alone again, because none of them trusted him, with the exception of Asha.
He realized he was wrong just by the moment he entered Winterfell. That scene you are talking about is a scene from the show. In the books that never happens. All the time he's in Winterfell he keeps thinking that what he's doing is bad, and blaming himself but knowing he cannot go back. He is being manipulated by Ramsay, as i said, who makes him kill and do terrible things.
I really can understand why people say that he betrayed the Starks, and maybe that is not entirely wrong.... but i am just trying to prove that everyting is much more complex than that.
From everything that he's done and has had done to him I think in the end he'll either be the guest of honor at one of Melisandre's bonfires or he will live long enough for Dany to execute him for his crimes. Like Ramsey said...
"If you think this will have a happy ending, you weren't paying attention."
I feel kinda sorry for him.He is pretty crazy and scared all the time since Ramsay Snow "unmanned" him.Plus,he has regretted the things he has done."My real father lost his head at King's Landing. I made a choice... and I chose wrong. "-Theon Greyjoy(Season 3,episode 4)
I would also like to compliment your English, it's amazing! I know people who's first language is English and couldn't explain themselves nearly as well as you did!
First of all, sorry if i make some mistakes trying to explain myself. English is not my first language.
Theon did not betray the Starks. … moreFor the Starks he was just a hostage they took from the Greyjoys to prevent them from rebeling again. Theon was never treated with any love or respect in Winterfell with the exception of, maybe, Robb. He grew up without any kind of love and this made him a very insecure person. He is always acting so cool to hide this deep insecurity, and you can really feel that while reading his chapters in "Clash Of Kings"
Robb was really a fool when he decided to send him to the Iron Islands. I can understand why he did that but he should have thought about it more. Put yourself in Theon's shoes: You were separated from your family at a very young age to be taken to another family of complete strangers who treat you like that, a stranger. You finally have the chance to return home and all you recieve from your fami… [view original content]
I think general consensus is that the TV show interpretation of Daenerys is the most boring character as it robs her off all the good qualities she had in the books.
I hated Theon the moment he betrayed Rob, didn't care for him before then because of how he treated Osha and women/anyone lesser than him in general. Rewatching the series I always see more things he does that I hate.
However, when he was being tortured by Ramsay, I couldn't take it. It was hard watching those scenes and I wanted him to die not because I hated him, but because I wanted his suffering to end. Not being a book reader (working on it! But my copy of GoT is missing...) I didn't know where his story was going and didn't know why they were continuing his suffering.
Now, I am curious to see where this will go and to see if he will get his revenge on Ramsay... all it takes is one moment of clarity while shaving Ramsay's neck and he can go Sweeney Todd on that sociopathic ass. If he does, I think this will be all worth it.
I think general consensus is that the TV show interpretation of Daenerys is the most boring character as it robs her off all the good qualities she had in the books.
Well. The actor of Theon is pretty good, but I have to say I'm not a fan of this character. U must be an idiot if u want the respect of a stupid idiot like Balon Greyjoy. Even when this dude is your father...Balon is just an total idiot. I really have no symphatic for Theon and for what he's done. He destroyed so many lifes because of his treachery. Lives wich trusted him and even loves him. This Maester was still tryn to help him after all he did...there is really no excuse for it. But....what ramsey did to him is no justice. Thats the work of a monster. Torturing Theon the way Ramsey did...well okay Ramsey is my favourite character xD, but no...nobody deserves this. What Theon deserves is death. Just execute the poor devil. Put him out of his misery...i think this is what the real Theon wants. After all he's gone threw...he deserve some rest. So to be honest...i feel pity for him. He was never anoying...he was an asshole yes. but I enjoyed his chapters.
The Characters wich are more annoying are...Samwell and his stupid girlfriend. God i hated these two. So boring chapters...hell even that bitch cercei is more anoying than Theon. Than we have Joffrey. Ygrit was anoying too...I swear to god, if i were Jon snow I would kill her after the fourth time she said "You know nothing Jon Snow." "STFU! God damnit! U saying that over and OVER again but in fact U are more stupid as I'll ever could!"
Oh yea! Stannis wife is annoying too!
So there is one thing i wanted to say after I read your whole comments: Am I really the only one who loved the series more than the books?
Well I blame him for trying to get acceptance from his real family. Because his real familys are assholes. A bunch of selfish assholes. All except Asha and Aeron. I mean I like Euron, but he's still an asshole and Balon...god the greatest idiot in this show. If my father would treat me like that after I showed up after years I would say "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you." and than go.
Robb trusted him but he never treated him as a brother. Theon was not treated bad in Winterfell, that is true, but he was always reminded of… more his condition as a hostage. He was never fully integrated. You blame him for trying to get the acceptance of his real family? I do not. Taking Winterfell was drastic, something he did to prove himself to his family, and then he was left alone again, because none of them trusted him, with the exception of Asha.
He realized he was wrong just by the moment he entered Winterfell. That scene you are talking about is a scene from the show. In the books that never happens. All the time he's in Winterfell he keeps thinking that what he's doing is bad, and blaming himself but knowing he cannot go back. He is being manipulated by Ramsay, as i said, who makes him kill and do terrible things.
I really can understand why people say that he betrayed the Starks, and maybe that is not entirely wrong.... but i am just trying to prove that everyting is much more complex than that.
Your father is your father, no matter what other people think of him. I understand why Theon wanted his approval. He just realized too late that he was never goong to get it.
I will hear nothing against my Sam Tarlyl although i love him a lot more in the show.
Well. The actor of Theon is pretty good, but I have to say I'm not a fan of this character. U must be an idiot if u want the respect of a st… moreupid idiot like Balon Greyjoy. Even when this dude is your father...Balon is just an total idiot. I really have no symphatic for Theon and for what he's done. He destroyed so many lifes because of his treachery. Lives wich trusted him and even loves him. This Maester was still tryn to help him after all he did...there is really no excuse for it. But....what ramsey did to him is no justice. Thats the work of a monster. Torturing Theon the way Ramsey did...well okay Ramsey is my favourite character xD, but no...nobody deserves this. What Theon deserves is death. Just execute the poor devil. Put him out of his misery...i think this is what the real Theon wants. After all he's gone threw...he deserve some rest. So to be honest...i feel pity for him. He was never anoying...he was an asshole yes. but I enjoyed … [view original content]
"Well I blame him for trying to get acceptance from his real family. Because his real familys are assholes"
Yeah, because loving your real family, as assholes as they may be, is something that difficult to understand... Balon and some of the other Greyjoys treated Theon quite harsh because of his attitude. Instead of a true Ironborn, they thought he had become too soft and whats more, too cocky. As you might know, people from the Iron Islands are completely different from all the other people in Westeros, and have different customs. Theon went there after having spend arond 10 years in winterfell, so he was dressing and acting as one of them. Also, Balon did not trust Theon entirely because he thought he was sent by Robb to give their loyalty to the Starks, and he was still resented after what happened in the last rebellion (Where most of his children died at the hands of the Baratheons and Starks)
I mean, yeah, Balon is an utter idiot, i don't like him either (He is the only Greyjoy i really hate, the other members of the family i think are quite amazing and interesting) and he should not have treated his son like that. He basically told him: "Oh, you are a Greyjoy? so prove it", and Theon did the only thing he could think of at that time, being impulsive. He really did not wanted to turn his back to the starks, but familly and being loved is something that could make you do those type of things, things you could regret later and are not right.
I mean, i don't know. Most people think of Theon as some kind of dark and evil type of character, while i think the opposite: He is an average "good" guy who has made a hole lot of bad decisions but he was never acting on evil thought. He is too easy to manipulate due to his low self esteem.
Well I blame him for trying to get acceptance from his real family. Because his real familys are assholes. A bunch of selfish assholes. All … moreexcept Asha and Aeron. I mean I like Euron, but he's still an asshole and Balon...god the greatest idiot in this show. If my father would treat me like that after I showed up after years I would say "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you." and than go.
I agree completely Theon is one of my favourites.
I would also like to compliment your English, it's amazing! I know people who's first language is English and couldn't explain themselves nearly as well as you did!
The reason that Ned Stark never got close to Theon was because if the Greyjoys rebelled against King Robert then Ned would be forced to kill Theon as punishment. He didn't want to risk loving him for that reason. So he decided not to treat him as his own son.
First of all, sorry if i make some mistakes trying to explain myself. English is not my first language.
Theon did not betray the Starks. … moreFor the Starks he was just a hostage they took from the Greyjoys to prevent them from rebeling again. Theon was never treated with any love or respect in Winterfell with the exception of, maybe, Robb. He grew up without any kind of love and this made him a very insecure person. He is always acting so cool to hide this deep insecurity, and you can really feel that while reading his chapters in "Clash Of Kings"
Robb was really a fool when he decided to send him to the Iron Islands. I can understand why he did that but he should have thought about it more. Put yourself in Theon's shoes: You were separated from your family at a very young age to be taken to another family of complete strangers who treat you like that, a stranger. You finally have the chance to return home and all you recieve from your fami… [view original content]
It's unfortunate that he wanted to regain himself in the hand of Balon Greyjoy. Once Balon expressed he would not help Robb Stark, he shoul… mored have left, but the pull of belonging to your biological is such a bitch. I honestly find Bronn's story more uninteresting. As far as most annoying, Dany in season 2 wins that crown.
Comments
People thoug that the scenes with him in the second half of the season really didn't tell us anything we already knew and that they should've just left him out after the fourth episode at least until the finale, since we basically just see torture poem
I think people were missing the point, which was to show what it took to make Theon so broken that he wouldn't even allow his sister to rescue him. Having him disapear for half a season and then suddenly be Ramsays slave wouldn't cut it. People would then be asking where that came from. In the book you got to be in his head to understand his change. In a tv show, we had to see it.
Are you referring to the books or show? I remember Roose speaking to Walder Frey about sending Ramsey to Winterfell to get Theon. He mentions the Ironborn betraying Theon and under Robb's order to send them free. Roose then said Ramsey had other ideas, insinuating Ramsey and the Dreadfort soldiers went crazy after securing Theon.
This thread Reeks.
I like Theon. He certainly didn't deserve what he got.
Theon is one of my favourite characters in the series. I always get exited when I reach one of his chapters.
I watched the show before I read the books. I didn't think I could like her any less after watching the show, but I was wrong. So I agree with you. At least in the show 1/4 of the Danaerys scenes aren't just her trying to decide who she wants to bone.
Victarion is a badass but is always living the shadow of his brothers(at least Euron and Balon), even when both of them aren't around. I'm hoping Asha's leg heals and she fucking wrecks everyone.
Right, forgot to mention that aspect... Frankly I never liked her storyline all that much because I always saw it as spinning in circles. I know it's become pretty much a meme at this point, but really, are you ever going to take revenge for the death of your family, or are you just going to chill in Essos forever? And the relationship aspect was horrible, I mean good god, her relationship with Daario Naharis is not terrible in the show, in the books its an unhealthy relationship to the say the least. Really it only makes me feel really bad for Lord Friendzone, seriously give him a break!
Theon was one of my favs before he became Reek. Now I keep hoping he gets his comeback but I know he is pretty much done for.
He was the definition of a guilty king (well, yeah, he was only a lord but it still applies.) until he became Reek. Do what you think is right no matter the cost. Even if it turns out to be wrong in the end. At least you did the thing you believed in at the time.
I like Theon and I really hope there is some hope for him in the future, if at least, an end to his suffering.
Theon, Who's Theon?
i love theon. it's easy to just say he betrayed the starks, and of course he did, but he has his own family too. i always feel bad for him. but i only started feeling that way when i read the books. when i only watched the series i thought he was a total scumbag.
What is a guilty king?
I think Theon is definitely one of the more interesting character arcs in the series. I don't really enjoy reading his chapters -- not because I find him untolerably annoying, though he very... frustrating at times -- but because his character seems doomed by his own hand. He created the circumstances of his fall, so you're justified in not feeling pity for him, but that's what I find intruiging about his character is that I do pity him despite his short comings.
I think he'll have a bigger role to play with Winterfell in the next books, it would be great to see his arc go from burning his old home in the name of his 'true' family to reclaiming it on behalf of the one that actually raised him.
I feel really sorry for Theon, I think he regrets his mistakes. Yara is pretty cool too in my opinion. I hope they look into the Greyjoys more actually.
I think general consensus is that the TV show interpretation of Daenerys is the most boring character as it robs her off all the good qualities she had in the books.
I think he's suffered enough by now...
Well Theon did terrible things but lets not forget that it was starks fault too, when you grow up with someone even if he was a captive he was still part of family and straks were keeping to remind him and john snow otherwise,in all his life the only thing he wanted was to be aknowleged by his father and the people around him and that was a apart of his arrogant behavior but of course that doesnt justifie his actions.
i agree. Its time for him to come back.
Nah, I love Theon! But I am gonna be That Guy and post this.
Here is the true MEANING of Annoying
GuiltyKingOumaShu Commented:
He was the definition of a guilty king (well, yeah, he was only a lord but it still applies.) until he became Reek. Do what you think is right no matter the cost. Even if it turns out to be wrong in the end. At least you did the thing you believed in at the time.
You said: "What is a guilty king?"
Bravo...
XD
First of all, sorry if i make some mistakes trying to explain myself. English is not my first language.
Theon did not betray the Starks. For the Starks he was just a hostage they took from the Greyjoys to prevent them from rebeling again. Theon was never treated with any love or respect in Winterfell with the exception of, maybe, Robb. He grew up without any kind of love and this made him a very insecure person. He is always acting so cool to hide this deep insecurity, and you can really feel that while reading his chapters in "Clash Of Kings"
Robb was really a fool when he decided to send him to the Iron Islands. I can understand why he did that but he should have thought about it more. Put yourself in Theon's shoes: You were separated from your family at a very young age to be taken to another family of complete strangers who treat you like that, a stranger. You finally have the chance to return home and all you recieve from your family is disdain. Even your own family don't consider you one of their own. What will you think or do in that situation?
He had a really hard time, and "betraying" the Starks was something he never was happy with (Then again, in Theon's chapters you can really feel that), but he was just trying to gain the respect of his real family, and some acceptance... something he never had. And even knowing that what he's doing is really bad he knows that he's gone too far and can't go back, wich makes him feel powerless.
What comes after is well known... he is used by Ramsay (He was the one who poisoned his mind and made him kill the miller boys, among other things) and taken hostage AGAIN, and start being tortured and dehumanized to the point that he forgets all he was, he forgets even his name. Even so, and i won't be talking about it very much in case some of you did not read "Dance of Dragons" he finally gets a glimpse of lightness in one of the most beautiful redemption arcs i've seen.
For me, Theon is the most real character in the whole story. A beatiful character with flaws but really human. From a lector point of view you can really hate him but think about being in his situation and how would you have acted then.
Really my favourite character in the novels and the show. Alfie Allen is a great great actor.
He did betray the Starks. I think that is without question. Robb trusted him because they grew up like brothers. Theon was treated more or less like Ned Starks squire. He was well fed, well taken care of. He resented the fact thst he was a hostage which i completely understand, but he was treated respectfully by the family. Guess who didnt treat him with respect. His own family. Theon was the fool for believing he could rule over Winterfell for one thing, and for believing his family would pat him on the back for what he did, and he realized that he was wrong when Ramsay captured him and he said that his real father (Ned) died at Kings Landing.
I Feel that Theon is genuinely regretful of his actions and so deserves forgiveness and his redemption will come.
Robb trusted him but he never treated him as a brother. Theon was not treated bad in Winterfell, that is true, but he was always reminded of his condition as a hostage. He was never fully integrated. You blame him for trying to get the acceptance of his real family? I do not. Taking Winterfell was drastic, something he did to prove himself to his family, and then he was left alone again, because none of them trusted him, with the exception of Asha.
He realized he was wrong just by the moment he entered Winterfell. That scene you are talking about is a scene from the show. In the books that never happens. All the time he's in Winterfell he keeps thinking that what he's doing is bad, and blaming himself but knowing he cannot go back. He is being manipulated by Ramsay, as i said, who makes him kill and do terrible things.
I really can understand why people say that he betrayed the Starks, and maybe that is not entirely wrong.... but i am just trying to prove that everyting is much more complex than that.
Theon himself admitted that Robb never did anything to make him feel that way. It was just in his mind, seeing Robb as this man set for greatness as the beloved son of Ned, and probably hearing nothing at all from his own family, he became resentful because he wanted what Robb had, but i saw nothing in their interactions to indicate that Robb didnt care for him.
I dont blame him for wanting to be accepted by his family, but the way he went about it was foolish, something they all agree on. And i know that doesnt happen in the books, but the sentiment is the same. He made a mistake and he regrets it.
I have a lot of sympathy for Theon because he was young and he made some terrible decisions and now he is feeling the brunt of that, but my argument was with the idea that he never betrayed the Starks because, I guess you think they deserved it for taking him? To turn your back on somewhat who trusts you is betrayal and he did care for Robb like a brother, that i absolutely believe. As he said in the books, he wished he had died with him.
From everything that he's done and has had done to him I think in the end he'll either be the guest of honor at one of Melisandre's bonfires or he will live long enough for Dany to execute him for his crimes. Like Ramsey said...
"If you think this will have a happy ending, you weren't paying attention."
I feel kinda sorry for him.He is pretty crazy and scared all the time since Ramsay Snow "unmanned" him.Plus,he has regretted the things he has done."My real father lost his head at King's Landing. I made a choice... and I chose wrong. "-Theon Greyjoy(Season 3,episode 4)
I agree completely Theon is one of my favourites.
I would also like to compliment your English, it's amazing! I know people who's first language is English and couldn't explain themselves nearly as well as you did!
Like what qualities?
I hated Theon the moment he betrayed Rob, didn't care for him before then because of how he treated Osha and women/anyone lesser than him in general. Rewatching the series I always see more things he does that I hate.
However, when he was being tortured by Ramsay, I couldn't take it. It was hard watching those scenes and I wanted him to die not because I hated him, but because I wanted his suffering to end. Not being a book reader (working on it! But my copy of GoT is missing...) I didn't know where his story was going and didn't know why they were continuing his suffering.
Now, I am curious to see where this will go and to see if he will get his revenge on Ramsay... all it takes is one moment of clarity while shaving Ramsay's neck and he can go Sweeney Todd on that sociopathic ass. If he does, I think this will be all worth it.
A lot of people like her more on the show. Her later storylines made me like her less.
Well. The actor of Theon is pretty good, but I have to say I'm not a fan of this character. U must be an idiot if u want the respect of a stupid idiot like Balon Greyjoy. Even when this dude is your father...Balon is just an total idiot. I really have no symphatic for Theon and for what he's done. He destroyed so many lifes because of his treachery. Lives wich trusted him and even loves him. This Maester was still tryn to help him after all he did...there is really no excuse for it. But....what ramsey did to him is no justice. Thats the work of a monster. Torturing Theon the way Ramsey did...well okay Ramsey is my favourite character xD, but no...nobody deserves this. What Theon deserves is death. Just execute the poor devil. Put him out of his misery...i think this is what the real Theon wants. After all he's gone threw...he deserve some rest. So to be honest...i feel pity for him. He was never anoying...he was an asshole yes. but I enjoyed his chapters.
The Characters wich are more annoying are...Samwell and his stupid girlfriend. God i hated these two. So boring chapters...hell even that bitch cercei is more anoying than Theon. Than we have Joffrey. Ygrit was anoying too...I swear to god, if i were Jon snow I would kill her after the fourth time she said "You know nothing Jon Snow." "STFU! God damnit! U saying that over and OVER again but in fact U are more stupid as I'll ever could!"
Oh yea! Stannis wife is annoying too!
So there is one thing i wanted to say after I read your whole comments: Am I really the only one who loved the series more than the books?
Well I blame him for trying to get acceptance from his real family. Because his real familys are assholes. A bunch of selfish assholes. All except Asha and Aeron. I mean I like Euron, but he's still an asshole and Balon...god the greatest idiot in this show. If my father would treat me like that after I showed up after years I would say "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you." and than go.
Your father is your father, no matter what other people think of him. I understand why Theon wanted his approval. He just realized too late that he was never goong to get it.
I will hear nothing against my Sam Tarlyl although i love him a lot more in the show.
"Well I blame him for trying to get acceptance from his real family. Because his real familys are assholes"
Yeah, because loving your real family, as assholes as they may be, is something that difficult to understand... Balon and some of the other Greyjoys treated Theon quite harsh because of his attitude. Instead of a true Ironborn, they thought he had become too soft and whats more, too cocky. As you might know, people from the Iron Islands are completely different from all the other people in Westeros, and have different customs. Theon went there after having spend arond 10 years in winterfell, so he was dressing and acting as one of them. Also, Balon did not trust Theon entirely because he thought he was sent by Robb to give their loyalty to the Starks, and he was still resented after what happened in the last rebellion (Where most of his children died at the hands of the Baratheons and Starks)
I mean, yeah, Balon is an utter idiot, i don't like him either (He is the only Greyjoy i really hate, the other members of the family i think are quite amazing and interesting) and he should not have treated his son like that. He basically told him: "Oh, you are a Greyjoy? so prove it", and Theon did the only thing he could think of at that time, being impulsive. He really did not wanted to turn his back to the starks, but familly and being loved is something that could make you do those type of things, things you could regret later and are not right.
I mean, i don't know. Most people think of Theon as some kind of dark and evil type of character, while i think the opposite: He is an average "good" guy who has made a hole lot of bad decisions but he was never acting on evil thought. He is too easy to manipulate due to his low self esteem.
wow, what a nice comment, thank you ^^
I know i make some spelling mistakes but i try my best !!
The reason that Ned Stark never got close to Theon was because if the Greyjoys rebelled against King Robert then Ned would be forced to kill Theon as punishment. He didn't want to risk loving him for that reason. So he decided not to treat him as his own son.
I mean Bran.