Is it morally right to try and help Lily CPR Larry?
I was thinking you're Lee: you've killed someone before, now you're trying to make amends by protecting Clementine. So would it be considered murder if you helped Kenny kill Larry in EP 2?
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Morally right, yes, but in a situation where you don't know if he's going to make it and the possible threat of him becoming a walker is pretty high, then you have to take the necessary actions to prevent that from happening to protect the people you care about.
Yep it's morally right.
Not survival right though.
I consider it murder, but its about your perspective. (Giving Larry five compression's causes his him to move, I'm taking it as evidence as he's alive).
Some people saw Larry was already dead and they needed to destroy his brain before he reanimated. Others saw him as savable (me) and attempted to revive him.
It all just comes down on how you view the situation, is Kenny a murderer for possibly killing Larry? Or did Kenny kill a reanimating walker? We'll probably never really know the answer since TT will probably never tell us, so we can't really know if Larry was alive.
Yes, we know Larry was revivable.
I'm in that Pic, Look, I'm in the one with the Three Minutes Later caption
WHY DOES NO ONE NOTICE MY CAMEO IN EPISODE 2!?
Well here's the dealio, I had no actual clue whether or not Larry would become a walker or not, but i decided to smash his head in on these terms:
all that leads to me allowing the death of the (sometimes hilarious with his dialouge) asshole
morally yes but in a twd situation doing what is morally right isn't going to get you very far
plus i'm pretty sure when someone has a heart attack they need more than cpr to get back up
He would 100% wake up in this situation (we know he would), but most likely die later.
But this would have given him the opportunity to say goodbye to Lilly, so she woudln't be nearly as mentally affected, and she wouldn't blame Kenny. The group would be much more functional.
100%? Is CPR guaranteed to wake hime up? No.
Unless you're referring that he moved.
The fact that he only moves if you push on his chest enough times proves that the movement was him waking up, rather than turning into a zombie.
So we 100% know that he would have woken up, even briefly, if Kenny hadn't dropped the saltlick on his head.
As much as I like Lilly, I believe Larry was already dead and his reanimation was imminent. I do agree that we should have let Lilly say her goodbyes, but when you think about it, how long was it going to take before Larry turned and took a bite out of Lillys jugular? Remember Bens teacher? How fast he turned? I simply couldn't take such a risk, not with Clementine there, not while being held hostage by the St. Johns, not with having all of our lives on the line. I personally despised Larry, but I didn't back Kenny up based on my immense dislike for him, I backed him up because I wanted to make sure a 6'4, 300 pound dead guy wouldn't rise up and eat us all.
I think the reason he moved was to provide that he was either turning into a walker, or waking up. It doesn't confirm anything. And to prove my claim, the cop in EP1, moves a little bit before attacking Lee.
Is air what we breath?
Is the Earth round?
Are there 24 hours during the day?
No shit.
Yes, it is morally right to help Lilly. But because of the zombie apocalypse, it was more right to help Kenny. The reason being that EP2 audio files reveal that Larry was indeed going to turn into a walker.
There's is two actually. One of him reanimating and one of him gasping.
The cop twitches though, not a typical response from someone who was a lot more clearly a lifeless corpse than Larry.
Yes. When reviving Larry, Lee can press on his chest 5 times. Larry's mouth moves both on the fourth and fifth press.
Hmm, forgive. I've haven't played that episode in a while, and I could've sworn he moved.
What about Rebecca? I believe she moved a little bit before turning.
Th point is neither was used in game and are only in the files.
I don't know why you told me that stuff.
Because when Larry's mouth moves two times, it seems like that's where the two files where intended to be.
Edit: I recently replayed the scene and discovered that those two audio files were actually used there.
Yes.
Of course it's morally right
Whether its tactically right, however, is a completely different story
I'm not entirely sure that he'd wake up/regained consciousness in that situation. I mean, he'd definitely be stabilized for a period of time (able to breathe on his own again and what such), but I don't think it's a 100% chance that he'd regain consciousness at that point, especially if the heart attack took him straight to the floor like it did
There is a definite chance that he could wake up on his own, but it's not 100% guaranteed
Again, it was a twitch and then raspy hoarse breathing, and she was extremely pale too.
Yes, even if it arguably wasn't the smartest move.
Then I guess I goy nothing. But just to say like others have said before, there's a voice file of him reanimating and waking up. I'm not trying to defend Kenny's actions since I disagreed with him. Also, there a little movement with his mouth, classify it as twitching or not. Like I said, been a while since I played it.
I never felt right Killing Larry, so i helped him instead. Yes it is murder.
Wasn't there also an unused sound file of Luke being alive after the lake scene and of Kenny dying at the end of episode 5?
Just cause there was a change in plan during the development of a particular episode doesn't mean that that person is justified in their argument that a horrible action was committed. Kenny was still wrong for killing Larry on a hunch.
Wasn't the Luke being alive sound file debunked as him drowning? I believe there was a thread on it.
Kenny was too much in a hurry there. The best way to go about it would have been to let Lily(and Lee, if he's helping) try reanimation a little more, while keeping the Salt lick ready and observing. When Larry starts to move, have everyone get the hell away from him and listen quietly. A walker makes fairly distinctive noises, and only after hearing them, we drop the lick. Or we don't, if all we hear is Larry coughing and cursing.
Of course, the above course of action requires everyone to be rational, which at least Lily definitely wasn't, and still carries the risk of a reanimation so sudden that it screws at least one of the group. Kenny's solution is the safest in that situation, and doesn't deserve more than a short-term grudge. It's not murder.
^^This. I tried to help revive him, but I can't say that Kenny's way was wrong.... he just blew his wad a little too early. What they should've done is restrain Larry's arms and legs (with the belts on their pants maybe). That way, Lee can do his thing and Kenny can be on stand by for the kill. Granted Larry's walker would've been a beast had he reanimated, I have no doubt that Lee, Kenny, and Lilly (the 3 strongest members of the group) would've been able to handle it. Problem is, Lilly and Kenny were both freaking the fuck out for different reasons. Made it impossible to look at the situation from a rational stand point.
On another note, I'm no pre-med student, but I'm pretty sure you need more then cpr to get over a heart attack. Even if Larry had woken up, there was no way he was walking out of that dairy alive. Reviving him was more about giving Lilly a chance to say good bye. Can you imagine how much more fucked up Clementine would be if she didn't have a chance to say good bye to Lee?
Since it was so early in the zombie apocalypse and Lilly has been known to be quite a capable survivor, I'm sure if we met her again years later she would understand why Kenny did what he had to. Time would pass, people become more harden to how harsh the world is and Lilly would realize that taking chances on someone possibly turning into a zombie is not worth it. I'm not saying what Kenny did was the right thing, but I could definitely see Lilly forgiving Kenny/Lee for what they did in the meat locker.
Doubt it. Why would she? He killed her father. Cold hard truth, he killed her father.
Yeah, but she had to have experience some brutal shit after the whole shooting Carley/Doug thing, just like every other character in TWD. Living in ZA, people would eventually realize that taking chances like saving a dude who's dying may not be worth it since he/she may turn. Lilly even says she'll eventually forgive Kenny for the whole thing (during the discussion to leave her). I'm sure she would continue to hate Kenny yeah, but it's definitely possible she would forgive him considering how far into the ZA we are and how much we have done.
I would say yes, it's morally right to help save Larry. It's typically not ethically wrong to try to help save someone's life.
But just b/c Lee has killed before, doesn't mean that he'd be ok with murdering Larry. Would it be considered murder? In the simplest definition of the word, yes. but i think it really depends on whether one believes or not that Larry was going to recover. There is a such thing as preemptive self-defense (it's typically seen in international law) and choosing to help Kenny could be considered preemptive self-defense. The idea is that one does not have to wait to be attacked in order to protect themselves from an imminent threat.
Larry's death I think is probably one of the best decisions in the series. It's still a very polarizing issue.
Er, no, he can't have been turning into a walker.
He only moves if you push on his chest 4 times. If you don't, he remains still, but the same time elapses.
So unless becoming a walker is speeded up by pushing on someone's chest, then he was waking up.
I think you’re right, since if you kill Larry and bring Lilly on the RV, she outright tells Lee that she can understand why he killed Larry, but she’s too pissed at the moment to care. Add that to her comment that she could forgive Kenny eventually as well, and it's possible she'd get over her dad's death one day.
“I know you did what you did for a reason, and part of me understands. But the other part sees you with your back turned to me, and knows I could’ve killed you…”
God, why the fuck didn’t Lilly return in Season 2??? There was so much more potential for interesting interactions & storytelling that it hurts.
Anything is possible in a made up story.
that's why I've always thought that Larry's movement was just a glitch from doing the chest compressions, not him breathing or moving his mouth