Kenny vs Arvo conflict?
Did anyone else get this in episode 5. I really didn't get their point here. Kenny beats up on Arvo to get some of his tension out to try to push his "insanity" which I was just indifferent to. The stupidest part about the ordeal was that Kenny blamed Arvo for Luke cracking through the ice which was Luke's own fault and the group's. Was it really that hard for someone to say
Person:"Hey, dumbasses, we have one of our own shot in the leg and carrying weight. This appears to be a lake. In case none of y'all know what that is it means we could navigate our way around, it wouldn't put us at risk and it would only take about an hour or so.
Group: Nah then we'd only have 30 minutes to complete the episode and Kenny needs to blame Arvo for something
Person: I... uh.... fuck it just cross and get it over with -_-
But enough about the lake thing but Kenny's treatment of Arvo wasn't necessary and his hatred for him felt so forced. He felt like he had no place in a conflict with Arvo. It should have been Clementine vs Arvo. Yet they felt Kenny needed more screen time don't understand why. I just really think Arvo had more to him than Kenny's punching bag through out the entire episode. I'm not sure what purpose he would serve in the third season if Clementine isn't in it which leads me to believe Arvi vs Clementine could have been wrapped up greatly and would be interesting instead he stays tied up as a slave. Mike and Bonnie fell flat for me
Comments
Well don't forget the conflict started when everyone was mourning Rebecca. Kenny only knew her for a few days, Mike and Jane knew her for even less and Clem only knew her for 2 weeks. The only people who should have been effected were Bonnie and Luke but instead Kenny seemed to be really effected by it and blamed Arvo but Rebecca would have died anyway so I don't even know why he started to blame him.
Then he beats him up later because Luke dies. I mean, what? Kenny never liked Luke and he shouldn't have cared. Again, he only knew him for a few days, Mike and Jane for even less so the only people who should have been effected were Bonnie if she's alive and Clementine since she knew him for 2 weeks. It makes no sense! Nothing in episode 5 makes sense!
I agree, Clementine vs Arvo would have made so much more sense because Clementine can steal his meds (or not and he still gets revenge) then Clementine kills his sister and then Arvo shoots Clementine. Couldn't that have been enough Arvo conflict between group members? Ahhh, it makes no sense!
I don't really think Kenny blamed Arvo for Rebecca's death. He showed hatred towards Arvo for actually causing the shootout (which he did). I don't really know why Kenny blamed Arvo for Luke's death, I guess maybe it could've been because if Arvo did not start to run, maybe more people could've helped Luke....
The Kenny/Arvo relationship is the whole reason for Mike, and determinantly Bonnie, to leave the group - they can't stand being with an abusive individual anymore.
It also provides a point against Kenny in the Kenny vs Jane situation as he is a big part of the cause of Clem getting shot, which is important so the choice is balanced.
Watch the scene. While he stares at Rebecca he folds his fist and angrily walks over to Arvo to punch him only to be stopped by Luke and Mike. He blames him for the shootout but he only wants to kill him after he sees Rebecca dead, it also makes more sense if Kenny shot Rebecca not Clem.
I think he was effected by Luke's death because he realised they could have gone around and Arvo told them to walk across the ice.
If those aren't the reasons then I don't know what are.
I don't know. Maybe Kenny felt protective over her after helping her deliver her kid? I mean, it's still stupid that Luke didn't even give damn about it, but that was bit of a theme in Season 2. Person X that was known by Person Y and Z for a long time dies. Person Y and Z hardly care.
I just got mad at the amount of sympathy that the group gave to him. Should have let ken kill him
I see your reasoning. I felt he blamed Arvo for the shootout and not so much Rebecca's death. She was dead either way, she was losing blood and she was freezing there was no helping her unfortunately. Arvo caused the shootout not Rebecca's death, so I don't see any reasoning as to why Kenny would blame Arvo for it.
The whole group is stupid for not going through the forest. That's what Mike said. There wasn't that much walkers anyway. And the fact that Arvo is the reason for the shootout even if you don't rob the medicine.
The majority of Episode 5 wasn't very well written when it comes down to drama, but that's most likely due to lacking a credible villain/antagonist since Carver's abrupt death in Episode 3, and even then the entire event just reeked of biased writing.
My main issue with Arvo vs Kenny is how Arvo is clearly designed to be hated whilst glorifying Kenny's abusive actions, who is already a very controversial character among the fandom and is often suspected to be the creator's favourite by some. According to the entire set up I'm supposed to be on Kenny's side and appreciate him beating up a defenceless crippled kid, because he's supposedly the mastermind behind the ambush in spite of being a kid among adults, and will go on to shoot down a child over his sister's death because the game never allows us to explain what happened to his sister and how he reanimated. Not only that the entire scenario eventually motivates a once popular character pairing to betray the group by stealing the truck and supplies in an out-of-character fashion just to get away from a mentally unstable man, and yet I'm supposed to hate them for not accepting his ways.
Instead I just saw how the creators loved Kenny's character to the point that he has to be in the right regardless of his actions, no matter how illogical the entire scenario looked. Arvo was merely a device to help present a controversial figure in a positive light and condemn other characters for not agreeing with him, simply because the writers allowed their personal bias to affect the quality of their writing.
What felt forced was the group constantly siding with Arvo when he clearly got his group to come and rob you/ kill you even if you didn't steal anything. The whole story was trash and that part was way to forced. When Kenny grabs Arvo and points the gun at his head you can only disagree with Kenny. The game is forcing you once again to try and hate Kenny. You have Bonnie and Mike who have done nothing throughout that fight and still do nothing except feel more bad a caring for the people not in there group instead of the people in there group.
Trying to make sense of Season 2 storyline is pointless imo.
Because Arvo is a cheap plot device. And like most cheap plot devices, it's exploited.
He is a plot device I'll give you that but it doesn't mean he's a bad one. They way they used him was just nonsensical and stupid. He could have been a very good rival for Clementine but instead was just used for Kenny's overall beating toy
Can't you say any characters are cheap plot devices though?
I mean, obviously all characters are plot devices, as one way in which plot is defined in a game is by the characters within it and all types of characters have been done before, so cheapness will always be found if you look for it.
Anything Kenny related = Flog61 post
I suppose so but not every character in Season 2 was a plot device. Some of them were actually meant for a greater purpose until Kenny returned and buried them all. Sarita, AJ, The Russians etc all plot devices. After episode 2 the cast just seemed to contribute to Kenny and had no purpose on their own
If they were meant for a greater purpose in the plot aren't they still plot devices? This is what I mean, all characters are plot devices, that's what a character is.
Yes all characters are plot devices by your example however what most people mean by that term is that they serve no purpose on their own unless it's for the sole and only purpose is to develop a situation, message or character. For example Mr. Burke in Fallout 3. His single purpose was to blow up Megaton after that he just becomes nothing at all.
Enjoy, everyone!
Arvo: I promise you, I did not eat the last boat shaped cookie.
Kenny: Don't lie to me you little shitbird. I know you ate it.
Arvo: No, no. I didn't!
Kenny then hits Arvo.
I thought I would share this because it's the first thing I thought of when I saw this again. XD
I agree, the group could have gotten killed in the shootout by Arvo and hs group, but our group is basically, "Oh no Arvo honey baby, c'mere, I'll protect you from big bad Kenny" Like... what? You could have been killed by his group, why do you care that much about him? I mean, I will agree that I felt bad for him for his sister and stealing the meds, but other than that... Why?
Exactly. It made no sense. The whole group could have died because of Arvo and his group in the shootout, and yet they do everything they can to protect him from Kenny. I just don't understand it. Why would you want to defend someone who couldn't care less about whether or not you or your friends die?
Youre mad that theyre mad that Kenny was beating a cripple boy who was already tied and helpless? I would think anyone with a heart would sympathise a little.
Again, being beaten while he was unable to defend himself.
Arvo IS to blame him for Luke's death. He caused the ambush no matter if you take his stuff or not, getting Luke shot.
I laughed so hard at this scene. Arvo deserved that
Luke got himself shot by running head first into gun fire and crossing a lake with obvious thin ice with weight on his back. Luke was in no means making the situation any better for himself
I wanted to add some things, if you think its too long or you dont wanna read it, feel free not to read it...
Arvo is an asshole, a stupid, dumb asshole... I felt a bit bad for him the first time we see him and i didnt steal his shit, so then he's all nice and happy and 'thank you for not stealing from me Clementine'... 1 day later: 'dis ar d pepl who robbed me'... What the fuck? Some people would say Jane stole his gun, he was forced by his friends... He says his suplies not just his gun, and by the translated dialogue russians have they seem nice to Arvo... but i kinda blame the lazy Telltale for the whole 'stealing Arvo's supplies' thing...
Then Episode 5 comes...
Kenny was right to use Arvo as a shield, cus didnt exactly look like Bonnie or Mike were doing something to help, and Clementine and Luke were in a bad position... While they're doing that his sister zombifies and tries to kill Clem and Aj, and when I shoot her he's pissed at me, but i'll get back to that in a few moments...
Kenny gets pissed cus Rebbeca is dead and he hits once and threatens Arvo, I dont really care about him, whatever... Kenny later on at moments hits him or yells at him, which sure is not necessary but i still dont give a shit about him...
The whole Ice Lake thing was stopid and poorly written, 'well, i guess we can't go around'... Arvo and Kenny were both stupid, Arvo was stupid for running and it was all for nothing then he feel like a bitch, while Kenny was stupid for not paying attention to the ice and just being obssesed with Arvo... In Arvo's defense: he didn't kill Luke, Tellatle killed Luke because plot... They didnt even have to bother with the ice, they could have had a random rock from the sky to fall on his head or an car comes and hits him...
Anyway moving on, Kenny (who's side i'm usually on) didn't need to beat Arvo, instead of doing that he could have been helping Clementine to get warm... I didn't start caring about Arvo but i did stop Kenny...
Then Mike decides to leave with Arvo, sure go ahead and i hope you get eaten by walkers, but he steals all our food, he decides to leave a 11 year old girl, a baby and a woman he doesnt have a problem with to die without a car, even worse to starve...
The moment from which I went from being undecided about Arvo to completely hating him with passion was WHEN THAT FUCKER SHOT CLEMENTINE... Now what people will do is defend the kid and saying 'clementine killed his sister, he didnt know she was a zombie'... I know its your opinion but i say fuck that... Lets go back a bit... What Clem does is she shoots his sister who is now a walker to defend herself and the baby otherwise she would have got eaten alive... Now he's suddenly angry at Clem for that... Arvo, first hint should have been that she suddenly got up without a problem with a bullet in her chest and you couldn't get her up a second ago... second hint could have been the white eyes but maybe she had closed eyes, although i dont think she would have them closed as a walker... Actually lets go back to hint number 1, whoever shot his sister in the chest offscreen in a first place, you should hate them... was it bonnie, was it kenny, the russian leader... i dont know who was it but Arvo or anyone else never even mentioned it... Lazy Telltale...
And you got no way to defend him here... No matter what you do as Clem, if you let them leave, if you call Kenny and Jane, if you say nothing... He fucking shoots Clem! So, the only reason he does it would be revenge... Killing Clem is revenge, in his own, retarded mind... But if you so much wanted revenge, shouldn't you have killed Kenny... I like Kenny, but i understand that Arvo probaly wants to kill him... He has a gun, Kenny's sleeping probably, he has backup of Mike and Bonnie, there's nothing to stop him from shooting Kenny then booking it outta there in the truck... HE FUCKING SHOT CLEM, he's a dead man in my book!
If we do see him again, he aint gettin no mercy from me!
I understand part of your grievances how he was entered into the story was completely ludicrous and just plain bad and lazy writing. But really what I wanted to bring up was what piece of evidence I used to defend Arvo in why we should forgive him which goes back to the very beginning of Season 2. Remember when Christa shot Michelle out of shock of seeing her dead lover's corpse on the ground? I think there is a similar case with Arvo yet it takes him longer to get through this period of shock after losing her since he's younger and his mind develops slower than an adult's. I doubt you'll agree with my points but I hope you read them as I've read yours.
I have read your points... I don't claim my opinion to be 100% correct but that's what they are, my opinions... About your points... I don't think Christa killed the girl out of shock but, just like Arvo, out of anger, hate or revenge... But in my opinion Christa was right to be angry at Michelle, while Arvo wasn't at Clem... Thats just my viewpoint...
Yes, I do agree that Luke was dumb too
"When Arvo had a boat and it was named S.S Duck"
Luke can be inconsistent I can't understand what he does anymore.
In my opinion, Arvo was a ridiculous character. From the moment you meet him, he gives Clementine those stupid death glares with the massive eyebrows and that alone put my back up.
No matter how you treat him, he wants Clementine dead for putting down his Walker sister. So, in my primary playthrough I just let Kenny do what he wanted to him and even voiced my support.
If we do meet him in Season Three, then he better start digging his own grave. No one shoots my Clem and gets away with it. I just hope telltale gives us that opportunity.
Meh I can understand why you would think that but we should blame the writers for that. Lack of character development and interaction was persistent through out Season 2. Tbh when he shot Clementine I didn't even care at that point. The writers have managed to turn a believable, lovable character into a hyper competent, boring, monotone drone.
See thats the problem. Sympathy can get you killed as shown later when they shoot you and attempt to take the car. Kenny was in the right and im sorry he barley beat him to death... He only hit him a few times
Flog61 posts anything about Kenny = people getting butthurt and becoming insipidly rude.
Not everyone is angry and violent when they're grieving, jeez. Just because Luke didn't punch Arvo's lights in doesn't mean he didn't care about Rebecca.