Hehe~! You can never please everyone. When the newer adventure games were simplified to essentially 'use' and 'look', gamers complain that the commands are unrealistic, where 'use' overshadow all the older commands, including 'pick up', 'push', 'pull', 'open', 'close', etc.
Now, people say that the newer command is godly and the older commands sucks?
Please, no more "open/close" 9 or 12 verb crap. It just adds tediousness and the potential to screw yourself on accident by not solving a puzzle because you didn't PUSH it when you pressed USE. (See Day of the Tentacle's
I also dislike the dialogs in ToMI. In most cases Guybrush doesn't say what I want him to say.
Sometimes Guybrush deems what you say too impolite and chooses something else. I found it pretty funny how he turns against you. Like when you try to blame Elaine for the Human LeChuck. They did the same in CMI and EMI. I defiantly remember it in Escape
I've played the demo and I don't regret not having bought the Special Bonus Package. I won't buy the game at all.
- the control system is worse than in Monkey Island 4
- I don't recognize the good old Monkey Island humor
- the games environment looks very poor (they should have gone back to 2d)
- last but not least: online activation sucks
I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!
goodbye Monkey Island *wipes a tear*
"Nice thread! Were you drunk when you wrote it?" *devilishly handsome expression*
I've played the demo and I don't regret not having bought the Special Bonus Package. I won't buy the game at all.
- the control system is worse than in Monkey Island 4
- I don't recognize the good old Monkey Island humor
- the games environment looks very poor (they should have gone back to 2d)
- last but not least: online activation sucks
I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!
goodbye Monkey Island *wipes a tear*
I've played the demo and I don't regret not having bought the Special Bonus Package. I won't buy the game at all.
- the control system is worse than in Monkey Island 4
- I don't recognize the good old Monkey Island humor
- the games environment looks very poor (they should have gone back to 2d)
- last but not least: online activation sucks
I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!
goodbye Monkey Island *wipes a tear*
You know I just finished the game, and I will tell you there were two gripes of mine.
In the beginning/demo - LeChuck's "Har Har Haring" sounded quite cheezy.
The Drag to move interface. This wasn't such a big deal though when I realized that you can hold down shift and use the arrow keys to run around. That vastly made up for it.
...Otherwise I thought it was pretty good actually.
I still want an explanation for the carnival scene at the end of LeChuck's revenge though.
Having played the demo, there is one point I agree with the OP. Controls are a mess. Trying to get Guybrush where you want is a mess unless you uses keyboard.
I think the gripe some of us here have is not so much about the critique. What he said in the very first post is his subjective opinion and is true to a certain extent.
What we are upset about is that 10 days after posting the first post, stating quite clearly that he will not play the game even if it's free, he came back and posted critiques on part clearly not covered in the demo, like dialogue selection irritations and the reused of models. Again, these are good critiques, but not new as a lot of other people have pointed out since the first day of the game's release.
The question is why would someone who have already insisted not playing the game after the demo, went on to play the game to further criticise it?
Do note that this thread was already dead 10 days back. It was the OP who resurrect this thread yesterday.
I also dislike the dialogs in ToMI. In most cases Guybrush doesn't say what I want him to say.
And why do nearly all characters on the first island look like twin brothers?
Answer: Cheap0 programming. In fact, the classic gaming community demands that our cursor not *highlight* on interactive objects; that our dialogs provide new and interesting narratives for every screen. What we are seeing with TOMI is the worst that LucasArts had to provide to the genre of adventuring. We are seeing *training wheels of the worst and most idiotic caliber.* Yes, we are seeing Telltale at their best ... struggling to understand classic adventuring,
The joke of Guybrush defying what is written for him to speak was well represented at the END of the chapter. The satire plays well with sailor Winslow, but smacks of laziness with your conversation with the reporter because it doesn't present humor, like the earlier MI games did when they employed this tactic. TOMI displays this joke at the end of the chapter and it is effective humor. At the beginning, however, it only displays laziness. It isn't funny in the opening but is perfectly suited for humor at the end.
As for 6 characters playing 3 parts (with slight physical alterations) ... well you can't justify this as anything but lazy. However, I expect that the TTG designers know they screwed we players with this affectation of GENX laziness and will improve with subsequent chapters. I had a total of TWO complaints about MI4 and the reuse of character models was ONE of therm. It easily identifies the lazy from the experienced programmer and thus, like LucasArts, identifies TTG as amateurs in the programming of adventure games. Again, I expect better with the remaining chapters. Unlike LucasArts, I expect that TTG will improve their style of ... well, at this point, laziness. If they cannot improve themselves from LucasArts crap, then they do not deserve oyur money ... just as LucasArts proved to us.
Classic adventuring is lost amongst these tools of laziness. We don't need cursors, which identify "hot-spots"." we don't need bad-styled humor. We require games in the traditional sense.
Don't provide *training wheeels.* Give us the classics again, like "Al Emmo," a game in the classical sense, relying on our wits rather than your obvious clues.
In a way, Telltale presents a negative view of us all. They assume, through their games, that we are stupid and require help. In a very strong way, I can and should feel insulted by their games as assuming me an illiterate. Stop rewarding the ignorant and celebrate the literate--the cream of the meritocracy. Stop with the *highlighting * cursor--give us the choice on what should be examined. Stop giving us repeating dialog and give us our full measure for a $35 game.
I mentioned "AL EMMO" before. THIS IS A CLASSIC ADVENTURE GAME because it doesn't treat us like idiots. It doesn't tell you where the *hotspots* are and it doesn't regurgitate the same old monologue for each item,instead, provides new narration for everything and different, depending on your "smart-cursor" (something TTG has yet to provide). It is exactly the kind of game we played in the mid 80s with voices and real orchestrated music, not MIDI.
Best of all, Al Emmo lasts longer than any season of a TellTale game and is precisely exacting and fairly priced at $20. ... 175% less than any Telltale series of lesser length and adventuring prowess.
Critics of the first chapter of TOMI have valid complaints. I hope that TTG will improve on their first attempt or I must consider TTG employee, DavidE's suggestion that all TTG games should be pirated. After reading his suggestion, both written and unwritten, I must conclude that he agrees ... TTG should be pirated rather than purchased. This is from a TTG emplyee, mind you. Whether he's correct in his assessment is up to you.
He didn't supply a critique, so much as a desire for a completely different game.
Oh i see critique in his post. He mentions he doesnt like the control system and the graphics and he thinks it lacks the good old Monkey Island humour. Surely thats valid points of critique that you can read and digest. He's not the only one who has written about those points, you know.
Might not be the most elegant post this month but he has the right to his opinion. That a TTG staffmember needs to come forward and conclude that its a baaad post...just shows signs of weakness IMO.
Smashing, it doesnt matter whether he did try out the full game anyway or not. His critique is still valid. He might have friends who bought the game and he then tried it there. We dont know that.
He mentions he doesnt like the control system and the graphics and he thinks it lacks the good old Monkey Island humour. Surely thats valid points of critique that you can read and digest.
I can critique the government for making me pay taxes, and say that it would be much better if I didn't have to pay taxes. It is not a reasonable suggestion.
I've played the demo and I don't regret not having bought the Special Bonus Package. I won't buy the game at all.
- the control system is worse than in Monkey Island 4
- I don't recognize the good old Monkey Island humor
- the games environment looks very poor (they should have gone back to 2d)
- last but not least: online activation sucks
I wouldn't play this game if it was for free!
goodbye Monkey Island *wipes a tear*
Oh noes, a different opinion than my own that doesn't praise everything that is Monkey Island related! I better start bashing the poster over and over how dare you say something so horrible!
*sigh*
Monkey Island is back. That is what we should be thankful for. Personally I'd buy the game even if Guybrush whispered the entire time. I wouldn't care. We are lucky for a new MI game at all, so why complain?
*sigh*
Monkey Island is back. That is what we should be thankful for. Personally I'd buy the game even if Guybrush whispered the entire time. I wouldn't care. We are lucky for a new MI game at all, so why complain?
Because people want the game to be GOOD, instead of being shallow and praising it just because it's Monkey Island? It's silly to like something just for being part of a beloved franchise.
Yare, ok fair enough. Keep pretending that noone at all have a problem with the controls or other things
It's impossible to make a control scheme that suits everybody. I hated Grim Fandango interface first, but after some time I got used to it and it doesn't bother me anymore. It just fits the game and I can't imagine Grim Fandango with anything else (it was worse in EMI, cause Many's gead was bigger than Guybrush's).
There are voices against every scheme that was ever used in MI games.
Things? Humour? Depend on your taste. Graphics? Never bothered me, the plot is what matteres.
EDIT. Sorry for responding to post directed to Yare, just had to say that.
I'm simply saying that some people are taking the game for granted and complaining about things that aren't very significant.
Controls, dialog and puzzles are the main complaints for the game, and those ARE significant. Just because you like something doesn't mean that everyone should like it.
I've yet to play the game (but I do love what I've seen in video clips) but I will say that everyone's entitled to an opinion. I don't agree with telling someone they should go away, shut up or that their complaining about stuff that doesn't matter. It clearly matters to people who don't like the game, so try to respect that opinion and put your views on why you like the game across as well (after all, your opinions are as valid as the next mans).
I've yet to play the game (but I do love what I've seen in video clips) but I will say that everyone's entitled to an opinion. I don't agree with telling someone they should go away, shut up or that their complaining about stuff that doesn't matter. It clearly matters to people who don't like the game, so try to respect that opinion and put your views on why you like the game across as well (after all, your opinions are as valid as the next mans).
I just hate that "I never touched it and I never will, but I'm sure it sucks" attitude. The guy just said he hates the game, will never play it and it ruined Monkey Island. That's why some people are rude.
If he played the game and posts some criticism - that's fine, that's feedback, that can make future games better. If someone played the demo \ watched videos \ guessed the game's bad - I don't feel any obligation to be polite.
Yare, ok fair enough. Keep pretending that noone at all have a problem with the controls or other things
First of all, let me say something: "Do Not Feed The Troll". This is a flame war here! In fact, right now, the forums are littered with flame wars! Insulting or berating someone who is only trying to end it will not help!
Secondly, No matter what a game designer does to the game they're going to put on the market, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO COMPLAINS. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A TROLL. And if the designer were to change every single little thing complained about, IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT GAME! Exactly who is in charge of the game, anyway? The guys who make it or the fans?
Which brings me to three: The fan is not the one who develops the game. The developer is. It is his job to make the game, his job to come up with interface and controls. He works hard and gets a wage for designing the game, not listening to the fans every whim.
Lastly, If you don't like the game, there is a very simple solution. Don't play the game. Don't make it heck for the guys making the game. It's very likely that the only thing complaints are going to do is make the game WORSE, not better!
If you're going to insult me, or continue the war, go ahead. I won't reply. I won't join in. I am Switzerland.
I just hate that "I never touched it and I never will, but I'm sure it sucks" attitude. The guy just said he hates the game, will never play it and it ruined Monkey Island. That's why some people are rude.
If he played the game and posts some criticism - that's fine, that's feedback, that can make future games better. If someone played the demo \ watched videos \ guessed the game's bad - I don't feel any obligation to be polite.
I'm sorry, I didn't notice that someone was moaning about TOMI without actually playing the game. I agree, that's a pretty ignorant thing to do. Though sometimes it's best to just ignore ugly little trolls, rather then egging them on (despite you being in the right).
I'm sorry, I didn't notice that someone was moaning about TOMI without actually playing the game. I agree, that's a pretty ignorant thing to do. Though sometimes it's best to just ignore ugly little trolls, rather then egging them on (despite you being in the right).
Sometimes egging them on is quite entertaining. They usually fight like cows!
First of all, let me say something: "Do Not Feed The Troll". This is a flame war here! In fact, right now, the forums are littered with flame wars! Insulting or berating someone who is only trying to end it will not help!
Secondly, No matter what a game designer does to the game they're going to put on the market, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO COMPLAINS. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A TROLL. And if the designer were to change every single little thing complained about, IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT GAME! Exactly who is in charge of the game, anyway? The guys who make it or the fans?
Which brings me to three: The fan is not the one who develops the game. The developer is. It is his job to make the game, his job to come up with interface and controls. He works hard and gets a wage for designing the game, not listening to the fans every whim.
Lastly, If you don't like the game, there is a very simple solution. Don't play the game. Don't make it heck for the guys making the game. It's very likely that the only thing complaints are going to do is make the game WORSE, not better!
If you're going to insult me, or continue the war, go ahead. I won't reply. I won't join in. I am Switzerland.
Geesh! You took all the fun out of ridiculing you.
Anyway, this is not really a flame war, for usually in a flame war, the person who is being assaulted will be defending his point of view. Instead, this is just another complaint thread, where most people obviously do not read the beginning of the thread, and started joining in the discussion based on the topic "utterly disappointed...", much like how people started discuss any topics just based on headline, or words they wanna read.
Again, the criticism are valid. But for a person who have insisted on not ever playing the game again, he/she/it obviously went on to play the game and re-troll his thread with more criticism to support his claim in the first post. Note, he have not made another post after that.
I doubt there are any flaring sentiments here, or even new points being made. All the issues/criticism have already been voiced or addressed somewhere else.
So what flame war is there? It's just another same old complaint thread, that got probably a little bit more attention, cos Yare posted here...
First of all, let me say something: "Do Not Feed The Troll". This is a flame war here! In fact, right now, the forums are littered with flame wars! Insulting or berating someone who is only trying to end it will not help!
Secondly, No matter what a game designer does to the game they're going to put on the market, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO COMPLAINS. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A TROLL. And if the designer were to change every single little thing complained about, IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT GAME! Exactly who is in charge of the game, anyway? The guys who make it or the fans?
Which brings me to three: The fan is not the one who develops the game. The developer is. It is his job to make the game, his job to come up with interface and controls. He works hard and gets a wage for designing the game, not listening to the fans every whim.
Lastly, If you don't like the game, there is a very simple solution. Don't play the game. Don't make it heck for the guys making the game. It's very likely that the only thing complaints are going to do is make the game WORSE, not better!
If you're going to insult me, or continue the war, go ahead. I won't reply. I won't join in. I am Switzerland.
Comments
Now, people say that the newer command is godly and the older commands sucks?
Sometimes Guybrush deems what you say too impolite and chooses something else. I found it pretty funny how he turns against you. Like when you try to blame Elaine for the Human LeChuck. They did the same in CMI and EMI. I defiantly remember it in Escape
"Nice thread! Were you drunk when you wrote it?" *devilishly handsome expression*
Someones hopping off the bandwagon!!??
I'll take that seat, sir!
Wonderful xD.
Nuff said.
He didn't supply a critique, so much as a desire for a completely different game.
I quite like it, if anything, we need much more games like this, especially today when a lot of games are awful...
I do realize that you might like some of the previous Monkey Island games more, but this game is awesome!
Especially when not compared to previous Monkey Islands but when compared to the other similar games in the same market....
Game totally rocks
In the beginning/demo - LeChuck's "Har Har Haring" sounded quite cheezy.
The Drag to move interface. This wasn't such a big deal though when I realized that you can hold down shift and use the arrow keys to run around. That vastly made up for it.
...Otherwise I thought it was pretty good actually.
I still want an explanation for the carnival scene at the end of LeChuck's revenge though.
Then go play Curse Of Monkey Island to the end, you'll get one.
What we are upset about is that 10 days after posting the first post, stating quite clearly that he will not play the game even if it's free, he came back and posted critiques on part clearly not covered in the demo, like dialogue selection irritations and the reused of models. Again, these are good critiques, but not new as a lot of other people have pointed out since the first day of the game's release.
The question is why would someone who have already insisted not playing the game after the demo, went on to play the game to further criticise it?
Do note that this thread was already dead 10 days back. It was the OP who resurrect this thread yesterday.
The joke of Guybrush defying what is written for him to speak was well represented at the END of the chapter. The satire plays well with sailor Winslow, but smacks of laziness with your conversation with the reporter because it doesn't present humor, like the earlier MI games did when they employed this tactic. TOMI displays this joke at the end of the chapter and it is effective humor. At the beginning, however, it only displays laziness. It isn't funny in the opening but is perfectly suited for humor at the end.
As for 6 characters playing 3 parts (with slight physical alterations) ... well you can't justify this as anything but lazy. However, I expect that the TTG designers know they screwed we players with this affectation of GENX laziness and will improve with subsequent chapters. I had a total of TWO complaints about MI4 and the reuse of character models was ONE of therm. It easily identifies the lazy from the experienced programmer and thus, like LucasArts, identifies TTG as amateurs in the programming of adventure games. Again, I expect better with the remaining chapters. Unlike LucasArts, I expect that TTG will improve their style of ... well, at this point, laziness. If they cannot improve themselves from LucasArts crap, then they do not deserve oyur money ... just as LucasArts proved to us.
Classic adventuring is lost amongst these tools of laziness. We don't need cursors, which identify "hot-spots"." we don't need bad-styled humor. We require games in the traditional sense.
Don't provide *training wheeels.* Give us the classics again, like "Al Emmo," a game in the classical sense, relying on our wits rather than your obvious clues.
In a way, Telltale presents a negative view of us all. They assume, through their games, that we are stupid and require help. In a very strong way, I can and should feel insulted by their games as assuming me an illiterate. Stop rewarding the ignorant and celebrate the literate--the cream of the meritocracy. Stop with the *highlighting * cursor--give us the choice on what should be examined. Stop giving us repeating dialog and give us our full measure for a $35 game.
I mentioned "AL EMMO" before. THIS IS A CLASSIC ADVENTURE GAME because it doesn't treat us like idiots. It doesn't tell you where the *hotspots* are and it doesn't regurgitate the same old monologue for each item,instead, provides new narration for everything and different, depending on your "smart-cursor" (something TTG has yet to provide). It is exactly the kind of game we played in the mid 80s with voices and real orchestrated music, not MIDI.
Best of all, Al Emmo lasts longer than any season of a TellTale game and is precisely exacting and fairly priced at $20. ... 175% less than any Telltale series of lesser length and adventuring prowess.
Critics of the first chapter of TOMI have valid complaints. I hope that TTG will improve on their first attempt or I must consider TTG employee, DavidE's suggestion that all TTG games should be pirated. After reading his suggestion, both written and unwritten, I must conclude that he agrees ... TTG should be pirated rather than purchased. This is from a TTG emplyee, mind you. Whether he's correct in his assessment is up to you.
Oh i see critique in his post. He mentions he doesnt like the control system and the graphics and he thinks it lacks the good old Monkey Island humour. Surely thats valid points of critique that you can read and digest. He's not the only one who has written about those points, you know.
Might not be the most elegant post this month but he has the right to his opinion. That a TTG staffmember needs to come forward and conclude that its a baaad post...just shows signs of weakness IMO.
Smashing, it doesnt matter whether he did try out the full game anyway or not. His critique is still valid. He might have friends who bought the game and he then tried it there. We dont know that.
I can critique the government for making me pay taxes, and say that it would be much better if I didn't have to pay taxes. It is not a reasonable suggestion.
Monkey Island is back. That is what we should be thankful for. Personally I'd buy the game even if Guybrush whispered the entire time. I wouldn't care. We are lucky for a new MI game at all, so why complain?
Because people want the game to be GOOD, instead of being shallow and praising it just because it's Monkey Island? It's silly to like something just for being part of a beloved franchise.
It's impossible to make a control scheme that suits everybody. I hated Grim Fandango interface first, but after some time I got used to it and it doesn't bother me anymore. It just fits the game and I can't imagine Grim Fandango with anything else (it was worse in EMI, cause Many's gead was bigger than Guybrush's).
There are voices against every scheme that was ever used in MI games.
Things? Humour? Depend on your taste. Graphics? Never bothered me, the plot is what matteres.
EDIT. Sorry for responding to post directed to Yare, just had to say that.
Controls, dialog and puzzles are the main complaints for the game, and those ARE significant. Just because you like something doesn't mean that everyone should like it.
I just hate that "I never touched it and I never will, but I'm sure it sucks" attitude. The guy just said he hates the game, will never play it and it ruined Monkey Island. That's why some people are rude.
If he played the game and posts some criticism - that's fine, that's feedback, that can make future games better. If someone played the demo \ watched videos \ guessed the game's bad - I don't feel any obligation to be polite.
First of all, let me say something: "Do Not Feed The Troll". This is a flame war here! In fact, right now, the forums are littered with flame wars! Insulting or berating someone who is only trying to end it will not help!
Secondly, No matter what a game designer does to the game they're going to put on the market, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMEONE WHO COMPLAINS. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A TROLL. And if the designer were to change every single little thing complained about, IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT GAME! Exactly who is in charge of the game, anyway? The guys who make it or the fans?
Which brings me to three: The fan is not the one who develops the game. The developer is. It is his job to make the game, his job to come up with interface and controls. He works hard and gets a wage for designing the game, not listening to the fans every whim.
Lastly, If you don't like the game, there is a very simple solution. Don't play the game. Don't make it heck for the guys making the game. It's very likely that the only thing complaints are going to do is make the game WORSE, not better!
If you're going to insult me, or continue the war, go ahead. I won't reply. I won't join in. I am Switzerland.
I did, and I don't remember it's been so long ago.
Gee, guess I'll have to go play it again. Darn.
I'm sorry, I didn't notice that someone was moaning about TOMI without actually playing the game. I agree, that's a pretty ignorant thing to do. Though sometimes it's best to just ignore ugly little trolls, rather then egging them on (despite you being in the right).
Oh, I don't know... I hear feeding troll a red herring from time to time is just the ticket.
Sometimes egging them on is quite entertaining. They usually fight like cows!
Please go read several of the 12+ page threads explaining why the controls are the way they are.
Geesh! You took all the fun out of ridiculing you.
Anyway, this is not really a flame war, for usually in a flame war, the person who is being assaulted will be defending his point of view. Instead, this is just another complaint thread, where most people obviously do not read the beginning of the thread, and started joining in the discussion based on the topic "utterly disappointed...", much like how people started discuss any topics just based on headline, or words they wanna read.
Again, the criticism are valid. But for a person who have insisted on not ever playing the game again, he/she/it obviously went on to play the game and re-troll his thread with more criticism to support his claim in the first post. Note, he have not made another post after that.
I doubt there are any flaring sentiments here, or even new points being made. All the issues/criticism have already been voiced or addressed somewhere else.
So what flame war is there? It's just another same old complaint thread, that got probably a little bit more attention, cos Yare posted here...
So, your from Switzerland huh?
you win the internet!