Like InKennyWeTrust said, Kenny told her to stay close to him, but she didn't.
And, also, so what if Kenny has a crowbar? Sarita has a screwdriver, I'm pretty sure. She just never takes it out, for some reason.
And, again, I don't remember anything being said about Kenny wanting to shoot her, so I think that's taking it a little too far. And, again, as I said, Larry easily could've been dead, so it wasn't an atrocity. Other people have done similar and worse things and been forgiven. Nick killed Matthew. Lee killed the senator. Lily killed Carley/Doug. Larry attempted to murder Duck. Ben was responsible for Katjaa and Duck's deaths. Clementine was responsible for Lee's death, and possibly Omid's, as well. But they've all been forgiven, as far as I can say, and I'm not saying I haven't forgiven them all, but you can't have a rule and not apply it to everyone. It just doesn't work that way, and isn't fair.
She "CHOSE" to be somewhere else? Wow, victim blaming much. How about he not wander off if he's the one with a crowbar and she's his girlfri… moreend.
He also didn't just blame clementine, he almost damn near shot her. He had a gun and he sure as hell was contemplating to use it on her.Strange. Did Lilly ever decide she might Shoot Kenny for killing Larry? Nope, she still led the group and protected them despite the atrocity he commited. Yet Kenny was full near tempted to shoot an 11 year old in the head.
Everyone's best interest at heart? Are you serious?
First of all I meant Clem wasn't ALONE in the meat locker with Larry. Clem was definitely there, and she SAW Kenny murder Larry. She applied that same logic as well as seeing Reggie that Sarita may not be infected if she cut off her arm. But Larry was in a meat locker with LILLY, LEE and KENNY. Lee and Kenny are full adults and Larry, a big guy as he is, would still show signs of turning before turning. Also People get resuscitated all the time through CPR. You never seen a drowned victim get saved before or something? People can have their hearts stop beating for a good near 10 minutes and still almost be resuscitated. Kenny Murdered Larry, Who the hell was he to Smash a man's head in.
Also your playthrough doesn't mean much. Because even if you were on Kenny's side, he still ends up commiting a great deal of atrocities on his own accord. Which is Smashing Larry's head in and then Leavin Ben to die at the belltower giving YOU the choice but ultimately wanting you to leave him to die an unjustified death. And Ben never pulled a trigger. Blaming Ben for Katjaa and Duck's death is the same as saying Kenny caused the death of Carley and Doug because he didn't fix the car properly which caused it to break down on the side of the road and the argument to escalate outside. Ben never had any ill intentions of murder, and he was threatened by the bandits and told his friends were being tortured by the bandits and used as hostages. He isn't responsible for Duck being bit. The bandits didn't BITE duck.
And Kenny DOES threaten to shoot clementine. If you cut off Sarita's arm the camera pans to him holding a gun and threatening clementine. You may not have seen it but if cutting Sarita's arm is a direct parallel to Kenny Killing Larry and leaving Lilly to suffer. But Lilly didn't aim a gun or threaten to Shoot Kenny. Yet Kenny was full on contemplating on using that gun on Clementine. And what about the train. The man may have been in Grief but he had to stop the damn Train because if he didn't Duck woulda surely turned and be a danger to Katjaa, Clem and Chuck.
Also best intentions? Did you not see how creepy he wanted to steal Rebecca's baby? Its great he helped n'all but he was Pushing Rebecca to walk when she just gave birth, hike in the cold the very next day. And Regardless of your choice Rebecca was clutching her baby with everything she had to keep him warm and hold it before she dies and he just wanted to take it outta her hands as fast as possible? This baby is NOT Duck 2.0. The baby is NOT his. (hell there's theories that he purposely wanted Rebecca to die so he can have the baby himself which is just as justifiable given the evidence as your defenses of him being such a great guy).
Also to not help Lee search for clem after he's bit? Like you can't give Lee a final hand to look for a little girl in horrible terrible danger because you have a petty grudge on Lee not being on your side? Like His coping skills are nonexistant and his pettiness is truly legendary.
The times he acted for his personal gain far outweigh the times he acts for others (not even counting the determinents)
In my playthrough, Kenny doesn't do anything "irradic" or "horrible." He sticks by Lee and Clem, always tries to help out, and is overall pr… moreetty nice.
If you're going to apply the logic that Kenny was a murderer, first of all, Kenny only killed Larry because he believed the man was dying or already dead, and yes, he would've turned eventually, between a few seconds and a few minutes. His choice was completely valid, as Larry had at that point reached a point that even having the medication wouldn't have helped much, only professionals and their equipment. Larry would have turned, and he was a pretty damn big guy. That would be a lot of walker to handle, and pretty hard to deal with. And, also, last time I checked, he WAS stuck in a room with Clementine. She was right there in the meat locker with them when Larry had his heart attack.
Second of all, if you hate murderers so much, why don't you hate Lee? He killed someone BEFORE the apoca… [view original content]
I'm used to Kenny lashing out on people, especially after he ditched a Lee who saved Duck because that Lee didn't agree with him on some stuff. He's not a rational guy, but there's not many more people in that universe that I would take into a gunfight with me. He's a good survivor. Sometimes he just momentarily forgets who his friends are. Clem saw his craziness, and she knows how to handle it. That's the way I saw things.
Everyone's best interest at heart? Are you serious?
First of all I meant Clem wasn't ALONE in the meat locker with Larry. Clem was defini… moretely there, and she SAW Kenny murder Larry. She applied that same logic as well as seeing Reggie that Sarita may not be infected if she cut off her arm. But Larry was in a meat locker with LILLY, LEE and KENNY. Lee and Kenny are full adults and Larry, a big guy as he is, would still show signs of turning before turning. Also People get resuscitated all the time through CPR. You never seen a drowned victim get saved before or something? People can have their hearts stop beating for a good near 10 minutes and still almost be resuscitated. Kenny Murdered Larry, Who the hell was he to Smash a man's head in.
Also your playthrough doesn't mean much. Because even if you were on Kenny's side, he still ends up commiting a great deal of atrocities on his own accord. Which is Smashing Larry's head in and then Lea… [view original content]
I never said everyone was innocent, Lee is far from that but depending on your playthrough his murdering the senator was spurred through different means.
Nick faces the full brunt of Matthew and guess what? Walter can end up killing him.
We are NEVER given the option to suddenly Kill Kenny. Kenny is married to the narrative.
Lily murders carley/doug and guess what happens. She gets driven off the fandom hates her the group hates her.
But Kenny is suddenly with you through it with his entitlement Killing Larry (i already pointed this out way too many times I'm not repeating myself) and then wanting to Murder Ben for 2 whole episodes and then almost ditches you in the last. Then even after he redeems himself pulls more polarized insane and irradic behavior to Clementine in S2.
Like InKennyWeTrust said, Kenny told her to stay close to him, but she didn't.
And, also, so what if Kenny has a crowbar? Sarita has a sc… morerewdriver, I'm pretty sure. She just never takes it out, for some reason.
And, again, I don't remember anything being said about Kenny wanting to shoot her, so I think that's taking it a little too far. And, again, as I said, Larry easily could've been dead, so it wasn't an atrocity. Other people have done similar and worse things and been forgiven. Nick killed Matthew. Lee killed the senator. Lily killed Carley/Doug. Larry attempted to murder Duck. Ben was responsible for Katjaa and Duck's deaths. Clementine was responsible for Lee's death, and possibly Omid's, as well. But they've all been forgiven, as far as I can say, and I'm not saying I haven't forgiven them all, but you can't have a rule and not apply it to everyone. It just doesn't work that way, and isn't fair.
I never said everyone was innocent, Lee is far from that but depending on your playthrough his murdering the senator was spurred through dif… moreferent means.
Nick faces the full brunt of Matthew and guess what? Walter can end up killing him.
We are NEVER given the option to suddenly Kill Kenny. Kenny is married to the narrative.
Lily murders carley/doug and guess what happens. She gets driven off the fandom hates her the group hates her.
But Kenny is suddenly with you through it with his entitlement Killing Larry (i already pointed this out way too many times I'm not repeating myself) and then wanting to Murder Ben for 2 whole episodes and then almost ditches you in the last. Then even after he redeems himself pulls more polarized insane and irradic behavior to Clementine in S2.
Where is it opinions? My Opinion is I dont like him.
The Game presents all of these facts of which I gave you. I didn't pull these outta thin air, the narrative uses age old Cinematics and everything is presented in the script.
You can like his character all you like. But to be blinded by his flaws and all the crap he caused, i really wonder if your that heavy in denial and to clean your rose tinted glasses because he pulls some horrible crap if you disagree with him. Also keep in mind that disagreeing WITH him are all equally valid choices of said situations.
-You can side with Kenny because his fear is justified in the meat locker.
-But likewise you can side with Lilly who knows more about Larry's condition and is of course lashing out at the deranged stranger who murders her father regardless of your decision and her wishes.
But to then say it's OK and REASONABLE for Kenny to suddenly blame Clementine for doing something similar to Sarita (but yknow, not smashing a skull in and a slight hope she may survive and not be infected), Kenny is then suddenly above his own B.S rules? An 11 year old who watched him do the same thing in the Meat locker? No, that's a load of crock.
And it's not an opinion. Kenny is a murderer because if Larry is dead because of a heart attack and being resuscitated is not Murder. Then kenny should have tossed the baby who wasn't moving for a minute off the balcony in case it turned into a walker. But of course he didn't yknow why? Cuz That baby was in kenny's mind his.
They call those people Hypocrites. Kenny by fact is a hypocrite.
And so is practically everyone else in the world, and in the game. I don't see how that makes him any different from any of the other characters.
And I also don't need you insulting me, either. I came here to discuss, not have my intelligence undermined falsely by people who don't even know me. I also didn't come here to argue, and seeing as I can't convince you otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time continuing this conversation. Like I said, I came to discuss, not argue, and this conversation will most likely escalate to that level if I continued it. I don't have time for that.
And so, one final thing I must say. Kenny is probably my favorite character in the entire game, not because he's so perfect and he does everything right and is the most utterly lovely and sweet person (though he can be pretty damn nice.) I love him because he is one of the most realistic characters. I love him because of his flaws.
Where is it opinions? My Opinion is I dont like him.
The Game presents all of these facts of which I gave you. I didn't pull these outta th… morein air, the narrative uses age old Cinematics and everything is presented in the script.
You can like his character all you like. But to be blinded by his flaws and all the crap he caused, i really wonder if your that heavy in denial and to clean your rose tinted glasses because he pulls some horrible crap if you disagree with him. Also keep in mind that disagreeing WITH him are all equally valid choices of said situations.
-You can side with Kenny because his fear is justified in the meat locker.
-But likewise you can side with Lilly who knows more about Larry's condition and is of course lashing out at the deranged stranger who murders her father regardless of your decision and her wishes.
But to then say it's OK and REASONABLE for Kenny to suddenly blame Clementine for doing something simila… [view original content]
Here is a fact: Not all the characters in the game are hypocrites.
The only hypocrites are Kenny, Lee and Luke.
Here is another fact: All of the characters are flawed.
The only opinion here is: I don't like Kenny and the reason is BECAUSE he is a hypocrite.
But I provided you facts and reasons of why which is supported by the narrative.
He can be your best bro all you like because he sure can be if you do everything he wants and becomes his yes-man. But If you reread your first post you placed him on some really high pedestal of EVERYTHING HE DOES HAS REASON BEHIND IT, HE'S SO TORTURED.
Which i knocked out your reasoning with counterarguments. (people experienced heavier loss and worse loss than he did, Ben being one of them)
Here's another fact: Kenny is terrible at coping with loss, period. Justified loss or not. and him lashing out at Clementine is NOT healthy or safe when an 11 year old girl should NEVER experience as much loss as she has.
And so is practically everyone else in the world, and in the game. I don't see how that makes him any different from any of the other charac… moreters.
And I also don't need you insulting me, either. I came here to discuss, not have my intelligence undermined falsely by people who don't even know me. I also didn't come here to argue, and seeing as I can't convince you otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time continuing this conversation. Like I said, I came to discuss, not argue, and this conversation will most likely escalate to that level if I continued it. I don't have time for that.
And so, one final thing I must say. Kenny is probably my favorite character in the entire game, not because he's so perfect and he does everything right and is the most utterly lovely and sweet person (though he can be pretty damn nice.) I love him because he is one of the most realistic characters. I love him because of his flaws.
No one knows wether Larry was dead or not. And that's how telltale wants it. My point is, even if Larry was a live Kenny killing him was in extenuating circumstances. Pre apocalypse he would not have caved in a guys head because he'd just had a heart attack! Kenny did the right thing. Wether you agree with it or not. if he had turned, Larry would have killed at least one of them. Salt licks are heavy! Not something you can throw at a moving target and expect a headshot. Not unless you're Mr Universe! Those size blocks weigh well over 20th. They were in a locked room with no weapons. How many do you think would have survived?
As for the reason for Lee committing murder changing depending on your play through? Does that make it ok then? If he accidentally killed.someone? He still killed them. He still set out to harm.them if not kill them. For no reason other than adultery.
Kenny wanted to kill Ben after he had caused the death of his wife and child! I'd imagine that's why relatives of murder victims go to watch their killers be executed. They want revenge. A perfectly normal, human response
But depending on how you play the game Lee murdering the man who slept with his wife varies. It can be in a blind fit or rage, self defense … moreor an accident depending on your actions. Also LARRY's death WAS Murder. Kenny wanted to murder him despite the fact that LILLY was telling them he's NOT dead.
Idk about you, but I think a woman who's LIVED with her father for decades and knows his medical condition/seen his condition at its worst is a better judge of character than the madman flipping the fuck out and screaming that we have to murder him. Also People live from heart attacks all the time.
Kenny is a murderer. Kenny's temper and Moodiness causes him to abandon you and many other characters multiple times.
-He condemns Ben to death despite the fact that Ben's actions only INDIRECTLY caused Duck to get bit.
-All the times he ditches you if you don't agree with his actions once, then you have to plead to his good side. (Looking fo… [view original content]
I'm sorry, but how in the hell is it Clem's fault that Sarita died, because Clem chopped off her arm? How does that even begin to make sense?
You walk in the herd, things go to hell. Clem is killing walkers who are approaching her. Then she sees Sarita being bitten. At that point Sarita is dead unless something is done immediately. The only possible shot is chopping off her arm, and for that Clem is suddenly to blame for Sarita's death?
I mean sure, the death happened in another way than it would have, but the death was already assured. It's like blaming a doctor for losing a terminally ill patient during a high-risk surgical procedure.
I don't know about your playthrough, but in my world Kenny is about as selfish as they come.
I don't deny that he can be protective of people close to him, but the only people close to him are the ones who submit to the will of Kenny. Disagree and he might tolerate your existence, but don't look for any help or favours... That's what you get for disagreeing about the best flavour of ice-cream or what should be done about infected people (aka - it doesn't seem to me, that it matters how big of a thing you disagree with him about)
Yes, but he was selfless... He protected Lee when Ben fell by trapping himself in the alleyway or he jumped in a walker infested building yo… more save
Christa, Kenny also took a bullet to the chest to save his son and finally he took the worst beating in the game to protect Clementine and lost his left
eye as a result.
As the wiki says... "Kenny is a flawed yet likable man"
even if he can be irrational... He's made selfless decisions and lost so much.
Okay, I get it, Ken has lost his wife, his kid, and later on his girlfriend, but everyone has lost their loved ones, that don't make him spe… morecial
Yes, that is true, everyone has lost someone, but not only has Kenny lost people, he lost the love of his life and his one and only child, in addition to that losing his girlfriend, who, in a way, took the place of Katjaa and assisted him in dealing with the grief of losing her. Furthermore, not only did his lose his wife and child in the beginning of the apocalypse, but you can expect he also blames himself for their deaths, because he wasn't near them when the bandits attacked and the walkers got in. I'm sure he at least partially blames himself for not being there, and I will support this with something he says a bit after Katjaa's suicide. "I could've been a better father, a better father...
The truth is he isn't strong enough to get over it. He just CAN'T MOVE ON.
Clem is WAAAA… [view original content]
(I've already posted about this in another thread, so I'm just going to copy and paste it.)
Larry dying was a 100 % certainty. Larry didn't just stop breathing or go into cardiac arrest, he had a heart attack. It also has to be noted that Larry had a preexisting heart condition that required a specific type of medication that they didn't have access to while locked in a meat locker. Also, CPR alone is not sufficient in reviving someone who just had a heart attack, all it does for the victim is reduce the amount of brain damage done from lack of oxygen until an EMT with the proper equipment arrives. Not only would they need an AED, but most importantly a defibrillator. Obviously, seeing as they're in the middle of an apocalypse and are locked inside a meat locker by cannibals, nobody was coming to help them.With all this taken into account, along with the fact that they were locked inside a meat locker with absolutely no access to any of the required medication/equipment, and nobody there had professional training, Larry dying and then subsequently turning on them and eating everybody was inevitable.There was no saving Larry, so Kenny made the right call on immediately putting him down.
The reason why Kenny blames Ben so much for Katjaa and Duck's death is because Ben tells Kenny it's all his fault and that he's the blame for their deaths. After hearing such a shocking admission, it shouldn't be surprising that Kenny becomes enraged with Ben and now blames him. Even though it wasn't all Ben's fault, that is what he explicitly told Kenny only a day or two after losing his whole family. It makes complete sense why Kenny wanted Ben dead.
So because Kenny is holding a gun while yelling at Clem, that means he's threatening to shoot her? It has nothing to do with the fact that they're in the middle of a walker herd and people are shooting at them? He was clearly angry, and had good reason to be. Clem was the only one who witnessed Sarita being bit, of course he's going to direct his anger at her. He wants to think that her death could've been prevented, that Clem could've done something. That doesn't justify the things he said, but it definitely explains them. If you honestly think he was going to shoot Clem, or was even contemplating it, you are severely misinterpreting his character.
Are you for real? You've clearly never been around parents with their newborns, or have ever held a newborn baby. It is normal for parents to like the smell of their new baby, it's how they bond with them. After babies are born they have that "new baby smell" for a few months, and let me tell you as someone who has held babies not long after they're born, that they smell amazing. Kenny is right in that It really is a smell you never forget. And God forbid that the birth of a new baby boy makes Kenny reminiscent of his own dead son's birth. God forbid that helping bring this baby into such a cruel world makes him want to protect this child with all he has left, especially when one can see the mother is in such terrible shape, and is unable to properly protect her child. Kenny doesn't think the baby is "Duck 2.0", he is the only one in the whole group who has ever been a father, so of course he's going to be the only one who is paternal by nature.
Everyone's best interest at heart? Are you serious?
First of all I meant Clem wasn't ALONE in the meat locker with Larry. Clem was defini… moretely there, and she SAW Kenny murder Larry. She applied that same logic as well as seeing Reggie that Sarita may not be infected if she cut off her arm. But Larry was in a meat locker with LILLY, LEE and KENNY. Lee and Kenny are full adults and Larry, a big guy as he is, would still show signs of turning before turning. Also People get resuscitated all the time through CPR. You never seen a drowned victim get saved before or something? People can have their hearts stop beating for a good near 10 minutes and still almost be resuscitated. Kenny Murdered Larry, Who the hell was he to Smash a man's head in.
Also your playthrough doesn't mean much. Because even if you were on Kenny's side, he still ends up commiting a great deal of atrocities on his own accord. Which is Smashing Larry's head in and then Lea… [view original content]
she had a hammer and to add kenny knows how his loved ones died and knows they never turned clementine went over 3 months before she knew her parents were dead and still has to think that someday they might run into them again and they will try to kill her and maybe even lee to if you didn't shoot him that is what clementine lives with everyday that is her nightmare
* They weren't suppose to "take out walkers," they were suppose to use the herd as a distraction to escape from the camp. Otherwise, what's … morethe point of covering yourself if you're just gonna start killing them?
* She left the room because she didn't want to see someone she thought was good do something so fucked up. Also, she didn't start smearing the guts and walking until everyone was outside. In fact, everyone waited patiently while Kenny was playing badass.
* Ok, again, why then would someone as "protective" as Kenny not make sure his GF had something? And I think she had a screwdriver anyway, but it's the principle. Hell, Luke handed Clementine a hatchet. Did Kenny hand Sarita anything? No, he was ready to leave without even looking at Sarita.
* I don't expect it, you're right. But I also don't expect him to wallow and sulk like a baby for half an episode when he could be trying... really trying to help other people that need i… [view original content]
I dont consider what Kenny did to Larry self defense when Larry wasnt even moving. At that moment, he was no threat whatsoever to Kenny. As for not being capable of murder, Carver?
One comment I've seen a few times here is "Lee would kick Kenny's ass if he heard him speaking to Clem like that. .." or there abouts.
I lo… moreve Lee... love him. Broke my heart into a million pieces to say goodbye to the guy. And the more I play S1, the more attached I get. But let's not forget one thing here.
Lee is a murderer.
He was caught, he was convicted. He was found guilty and was on his way to jail for a very very very long time. Maybe even the death penalty.
But people forgave that because a/ he caught the guy sleeping with his wife. And b/ was kind to a little girl
Now if killing someone in anger isn't a reaction in the heat of the moment. I don't know what is?? Just because he was nice to a kid we can forgive him?
People here either condone rash actions or not. You can't side with Lee, but then go against a Kenny for doing the very thing Lee did that got him arrested. Nothing Kenny has said or done has compared to mur… [view original content]
I defiantly agree how these people did mess up the good vibe he was having I was happy yet pits when I found him or course I hugged him but I knew this group was in deep shot so all I thought was fuck more characters... personally I would have liked it better if they where less group members and we found Kenny and he saved us not like this where he gets dragged along I personally love Kenny out of my top 20 fav characters of all time I put Kenny at 8
Thats a null comment....if you read what I said before, Lee killed before the ZA. I doubt very much that Kenny would have been capable of cold blooded murder before the ZA. Larry, Carver, ANYTHING that happened after the world went to shit cannot be compared to anything pre apocalypse, and that goes for all characters. They are under a level of stress that nothing in the pre apocalypse world would come near.
They are not the people they were before the ZA. The ones that stayed true to their morals are the one walking around trying to eat our guys! Just look to the TV show for proof...season one Rick never would have been capable of biting out the throat of a guy, Andy and Kirkman have said so themselves. They have had to adapt, evolve, to do ANYTHING they need to survive, and they are all a little screwed in the head because of it. Some handle it better than others.
I dont consider what Kenny did to Larry self defense when Larry wasnt even moving. At that moment, he was no threat whatsoever to Kenny. As for not being capable of murder, Carver?
As for .Larry, he was NEVER coming back. Someone with severe heart problems, who has just had a massive heart attack needs a lot more than CPR to bring them back. If there had been a choice to let him be, and he'd turned and bitten someone, people would be bitching at Kenny for not killing him!
I dont consider what Kenny did to Larry self defense when Larry wasnt even moving. At that moment, he was no threat whatsoever to Kenny. As for not being capable of murder, Carver?
You shouldn't even try to explain... It never goes anywhere.
They'll justify ANYTHING he does. Period. I remember when Kenny came back into the mix, people said "Kenny and Clem against the world." He would NEVER hurt her, emotionally or physically. Now they're "backpeddling" by saying it was Clementine's doing? He's justified? No, he's not. She applied very similar logic to Kenny's back in the meat locker. The difference being Clementine was trying to save a life by using rash actions, Kenny was trying to end one.
Plus, if you don't side with him. He takes it upon himself to grab a heavy object and without saying anything, drops it literally a foot from Lee and Lilly. Putting them in danger. Jesus Christ, Lilly was SOAKED in her father's blood. But no, he's justified cause his family was in danger. But, so was Sarita...
Here is a fact: Not all the characters in the game are hypocrites.
The only hypocrites are Kenny, Lee and Luke.
Here is another fact: All … moreof the characters are flawed.
The only opinion here is: I don't like Kenny and the reason is BECAUSE he is a hypocrite.
But I provided you facts and reasons of why which is supported by the narrative.
He can be your best bro all you like because he sure can be if you do everything he wants and becomes his yes-man. But If you reread your first post you placed him on some really high pedestal of EVERYTHING HE DOES HAS REASON BEHIND IT, HE'S SO TORTURED.
Which i knocked out your reasoning with counterarguments. (people experienced heavier loss and worse loss than he did, Ben being one of them)
Here's another fact: Kenny is terrible at coping with loss, period. Justified loss or not. and him lashing out at Clementine is NOT healthy or safe when an 11 year old girl should NEVER experience as much loss as she has.
Lol WHAT? Since when did i ever talk about the newborn aside from the fact that It was born silent and near still and could have easily been dead yet he didn't presume prematurely that it was destined to die.
Also Larry had a heart attack but he wasn't dead. people are resuscitated from worst situations and If Episode 1's end in the Drug store and Episode 3 of their continuous raid of the drug store, Basic storytelling can easily tell us that He had a decent supply of Nitroglycerin pills during Episode 2 or else he wouldn't have been helping with hammering walls and making blockades. What Kenny did was MURDER. And just because Ben felt RESPONSIBLE for what happened to at the Motor Inn doesn't mean he was. And if your defending Kenny being REASONABLY angry at him and WANTING him dead (who else would leave a kid to die/ want his death if not a murderer) Then REASON would state that Kenny should have seen that ben was no more responsible than HE was for not fixing the RV sooner.
If Ben didn't Placate the bandits, those bandits would have swarmed in earlier and then what? The situation would be no better than what happened. Duck's death was an accident, and Ben was no more responsible than anyone else at the Motor inn but for Kenny to suddenly blame it on the boy well AFTER his apology and you punching sense into Kenny/ talking sense to him on the train, yet he still wanted to ditch Ben at the Belltower? Your argument is weak.
Also Hello? He had a gun and the camera panned on Clementine's hesitance at him holding a gun. The camera wouldn't have done that if Kenny was of sound mind and if the threat didn't exist. Did the same thing happen when Lee saved Clementine in Episode 5 after meeting the stranger? Afterall Clem running away and being fooled by the stranger was what caused Lee to get bit and for many characters to die. No. The camera never panned to lee contemplating MURDERING her for what she caused. Yet Kenny did.
(I've already posted about this in another thread, so I'm just going to copy and paste it.)
Larry dying was a 100 % certainty. Larry didn… more't just stop breathing or go into cardiac arrest, he had a heart attack. It also has to be noted that Larry had a preexisting heart condition that required a specific type of medication that they didn't have access to while locked in a meat locker. Also, CPR alone is not sufficient in reviving someone who just had a heart attack, all it does for the victim is reduce the amount of brain damage done from lack of oxygen until an EMT with the proper equipment arrives. Not only would they need an AED, but most importantly a defibrillator. Obviously, seeing as they're in the middle of an apocalypse and are locked inside a meat locker by cannibals, nobody was coming to help them.With all this taken into account, along with the fact that they were locked inside a meat locker with absolutely no access to any of th… [view original content]
One comment I've seen a few times here is "Lee would kick Kenny's ass if he heard him speaking to Clem like that. .." or there abouts.
I lo… moreve Lee... love him. Broke my heart into a million pieces to say goodbye to the guy. And the more I play S1, the more attached I get. But let's not forget one thing here.
Lee is a murderer.
He was caught, he was convicted. He was found guilty and was on his way to jail for a very very very long time. Maybe even the death penalty.
But people forgave that because a/ he caught the guy sleeping with his wife. And b/ was kind to a little girl
Now if killing someone in anger isn't a reaction in the heat of the moment. I don't know what is?? Just because he was nice to a kid we can forgive him?
People here either condone rash actions or not. You can't side with Lee, but then go against a Kenny for doing the very thing Lee did that got him arrested. Nothing Kenny has said or done has compared to mur… [view original content]
As for .Larry, he was NEVER coming back. Someone with severe heart problems, who has just had a massive heart attack needs a lot more than C… morePR to bring them back. If there had been a choice to let him be, and he'd turned and bitten someone, people would be bitching at Kenny for not killing him!
Thats a null comment....if you read what I said before, Lee killed before the ZA. I doubt very much that Kenny would have been capable of co… moreld blooded murder before the ZA. Larry, Carver, ANYTHING that happened after the world went to shit cannot be compared to anything pre apocalypse, and that goes for all characters. They are under a level of stress that nothing in the pre apocalypse world would come near.
They are not the people they were before the ZA. The ones that stayed true to their morals are the one walking around trying to eat our guys! Just look to the TV show for proof...season one Rick never would have been capable of biting out the throat of a guy, Andy and Kirkman have said so themselves. They have had to adapt, evolve, to do ANYTHING they need to survive, and they are all a little screwed in the head because of it. Some handle it better than others.
Exactly. I'm positive he'd take a bullet for Clem, hell he lost his eyeball for her. Like you said, despite the beatings he gets and how much he's gone through, nothing's killed him yet. I'm with Kenny to the end, just as Kenny promised my Lee he would be for him.
I'm used to Kenny lashing out on people, especially after he ditched a Lee who saved Duck because that Lee didn't agree with him on some stu… moreff. He's not a rational guy, but there's not many more people in that universe that I would take into a gunfight with me. He's a good survivor. Sometimes he just momentarily forgets who his friends are. Clem saw his craziness, and she knows how to handle it. That's the way I saw things.
One question. Can anyone justify Kenny refusing to put Sarita out of her misery? If Sarita makes it out of the herd, she begs Kenny offscreen to kill her so she doesn't suffer. Kenny opts not to, ignoring reality and his responsibilities. I might forgive Kenny for his outburst one day provided he apologize in Episode 5, seeing as his optional apology in Episode 4 proves he knows he was wrong to blame Clem on some level. But what he did to Sarita, condemning the woman he supposedly loved to a slow and agonizing death out of stupidity and weakness is something I'll never let him live down.
Kenny has indeed become a very difficult character to relate to and understand. Initially he was someone very likeable and dependable, but as the struggle continued he ended up getting worse and worse in the way he treats people+handles situations. He is someone who essentially went through hell and was obviously scarred by the process. Does this justify his behavior? I don't think so. No sane man would lash out the way he did especially at an 11 year old girl who obviously cares about him a great deal. Does he deserve understanding? I believe he does.
I don't like Kenny at all for what he's become and nor do I excuse his actions at all, but I do understand why he's behaving that way. He is arguably the character who's had the worst losses in the game (I emphasize arguably here). Does me understanding mean that I approve of him? Nope. It just means that even though I disagree with his actions I can see where he is coming from after all that he's been through.
I don't love or hate him. I just know that he's someone I'm probably going to need to be very careful around in the future. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that's as far as a judgment I'm willing to make for Kenny. Don't want to be too naive to trust him implicitly nor too wary to completely write him off when he could end up redeeming himself again.
Sometimes he just momentarily forgets who his friends are.
This is exactly why I wouldnt take him into a gunfight with me. He's too unpredictable, too quick to forget who his friends are. He could turn on you just as soon as help you. He's unreliable.
I'm used to Kenny lashing out on people, especially after he ditched a Lee who saved Duck because that Lee didn't agree with him on some stu… moreff. He's not a rational guy, but there's not many more people in that universe that I would take into a gunfight with me. He's a good survivor. Sometimes he just momentarily forgets who his friends are. Clem saw his craziness, and she knows how to handle it. That's the way I saw things.
* Yes, they were using the herd as a distraction, that's true, but you saw how many of them there were. They can't just walk through them, b… moreecause in they get too packed in with the walkers, they're going to start smelling the human behind the smell of the walker fluids, and then they'd all be goners.
* Actually, yes, as I said, it was just a theory, but my other more logical theory was that the herd spread them out pretty effectively, a few walkers getting in Kenny's way, and he has to occupy himself with them before he can get anywhere, especially if they attack him.
* If she did have something, she should've used it and been more careful. I'll admit, if she didn't have something, Kenny could've given her something, but who knows if he even had any other weapons beside his crowbar.
* He never once made any sort of statement or action that he was the only one losing people, because I don't think Kenny's stupid enough to act like tha… [view original content]
You claimed that Kenny's interactions with the baby were "creepy" in the comment I specifically replied to, I disproved your claim.
Did you even read my comment? Because if you had you would know that people cannot be resuscitated from a heart attack that far along without the proper equipment handy. And what do you mean "worst situations", they're in the middle of a fucking apocalypse, what can possibly be worse than that? Nitroglycerin pills are not magical "make it all better" pills. Nitroglycerin pills are for when a person is experiencing symptoms of a heart attack, specifically to prevent those symptoms from evolving into a full blown heart attack. Larry wasn't experiencing symptoms in the meat locker, he was actually having a heart attack. Even if he had nitroglycerin pills on him(which I doubt he did from that raid they did like 2 months ago, also they left most of their supplies back at the motel anyway) they wouldn't have helped at all.It wasn't murder, Kenny was putting down an extreme threat.
Ben may not be completely at fault, but he is still responsible for his own actions. He made a deal with cracked out bandits who told him they had is friends. These druggies would say anything to get there next fix, the fact that Ben doesn't realize this is shocking. Ben is a victim of his own naivety, but it doesn't change the fact that his failure to think things through caused a man to lose his son and wife. I'm not defending him, merely explaining his actions. Are you saying that if you lost your whole family in less than a day all because of some kid's ignorance and stupidity, you wouldn't be the least bit angry? You wouldn't have any thoughts about wanting to kill the person who has admitted to being the cause for your suffering? I sincerely doubt that you would be so forgiving and rational if it was your child and significant other who were killed. Did you...did you seriously just equate Ben making a deal with sketchy crackheads to Kenny not being able to fix the RV in time? Please tell me you're joking.
Let me spell this out for you, Ben was trading extremely important medical supplies to a group of cracked out junkies who said they had his friends and nothing more. As far as we know Ben never asked for any proof that these people had his friends. And if they did have his friends why didn't he tell the group? Because he was scared? That's not a good excuse at all. Furthermore, if Ben hadn't been making trade offs with the bandits, then there wouldn't have been a raid in the first place. He wants to ditch Ben at the Belltower because 2 minutes earlier he just found out that Ben played a part in the death of his whole family. In reality, it's your argument that's weak.
Clem has never been on the receiving end of Kenny's rage before, I can see why she would be nervous of his reaction. But frankly, it's glaringly obvious that TellTale adds in that sequence to fuel their "Kenny vs Luke" "Icecream or Pizza" schtick. They don't want to make it an easy decision for the players, so of course they're going to have moments that can reflect badly on Kenny. And you can rave about how Kenny could have shot Clem/about him wanting to shoot Clem as much as you like. Because in the end, Kenny didn't shoot Clem nor is he plotting to kill Clem. You are bending over backwards to prove a mere speculation that's already been disproven. Lee is ready to lay down his life to protect Clem, his whole arc is about redemption for his mistakes before the apocalypse. It's quite obvious that Lee doesn't care about himself dying, but only Clem's safety. Also, Lee didn't just lose his loved on 5 seconds prior, so your argument is invalid.
Lol WHAT? Since when did i ever talk about the newborn aside from the fact that It was born silent and near still and could have easily been… more dead yet he didn't presume prematurely that it was destined to die.
Also Larry had a heart attack but he wasn't dead. people are resuscitated from worst situations and If Episode 1's end in the Drug store and Episode 3 of their continuous raid of the drug store, Basic storytelling can easily tell us that He had a decent supply of Nitroglycerin pills during Episode 2 or else he wouldn't have been helping with hammering walls and making blockades. What Kenny did was MURDER. And just because Ben felt RESPONSIBLE for what happened to at the Motor Inn doesn't mean he was. And if your defending Kenny being REASONABLY angry at him and WANTING him dead (who else would leave a kid to die/ want his death if not a murderer) Then REASON would state that Kenny should have seen that ben was no more responsible than… [view original content]
I for one never really liked Kenny anyway. Not just because of how he snapped. I stopped liking him way back in Season 1 when he murdered, yes, murdered, Larry, and how he suddenly forgot all the good things I did to him, including saving his son, and went all angry with me just because I wanted to have him not kill someone who might not even have died at all.
I am really annoyed of this stupid childish Kenny-is-great-stop-hating-him that's going around this Forum. I just hate it. I am sure that if it was Mike or Lilly or anyone else that would snap at Clem, that one wouldn't get a free pass. But since it's Kenny, it's okay, right?
And I for one don't care if he would have snapped at Clem or anyone else, it was wrong, and people shouldn't try to find excuses for it. I understand that it is human for people to find excuses for people they like, but still. Regardless of whether or not Clem is a child, she cared for him, wanted his best. I wouldn't tolerate it even if Clem would be an adult or whatever.
I am tired to have every second thread here be about Kenny, either because he shouldn't die, what he did was okay/wrong, and the worst of all, Kenny vs. Luke. Just.... stop it already, please...
This is coming from someone who hates Kenny, but even I have to admit that killing Larry was necessary. He suffered a massive heart attack and there were no supplies or equipment to help him. Like Lee said, "he was going, one way or another."
However, that does not mean I agree with how Kenny handled the situation at all. Outside of a brief, knee-jerk apology, he never ever ever shows a shred of remorse for what he did. Even if it was necessary, couldn't he have the courtesy to at least treat Lilly with some semblance of sensitivity immediately after his father's death? If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villainess.
There's also his comment to Lilly in Episode 3 that "You didn't want to leave because of your dad's health. But he's gone now." And he says this in a harsh and snide tone. That is a low blow Kenny, even Lee invariably tells him that he's gone too far with that remark ("Easy, Kenny..."), even if you've sided with him thus far.
And even if you decide to help Kenny, Lee invariably gives Lilly a genuine and heartfelt apology, unlike Kenny, who goes on to angrily insist that he did the right thing repeatedly. Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death, but it was perfectly fine for Kenny to be an ass to Lilly after she lost a loved one? And if you didn't help him, he constantly rubs it in Lee's face that "you're useless", or "you've never helped me", or "I did what I had to, and you know it, you moron".
And this is not a one time thing. If Kenny gets Alvin killed, he's still incredibly hostile towards Rebecca for the whole of Episode 3 and no one gave him shit for that, despite the fact that, you know, he got her husband killed. And don't say that he was only indirectly involved in Alvin's death, because guess what, Clem was only indirectly involved with Sarita's death, so why isn't she allowed to be hostile towards Kenny?
And I completely agree with you that had anyone else blown up at Clem, people wouldn't have been nearly as forgiving.
I for one never really liked Kenny anyway. Not just because of how he snapped. I stopped liking him way back in Season 1 when he murdered, y… morees, murdered, Larry, and how he suddenly forgot all the good things I did to him, including saving his son, and went all angry with me just because I wanted to have him not kill someone who might not even have died at all.
I am really annoyed of this stupid childish Kenny-is-great-stop-hating-him that's going around this Forum. I just hate it. I am sure that if it was Mike or Lilly or anyone else that would snap at Clem, that one wouldn't get a free pass. But since it's Kenny, it's okay, right?
And I for one don't care if he would have snapped at Clem or anyone else, it was wrong, and people shouldn't try to find excuses for it. I understand that it is human for people to find excuses for people they like, but still. Regardless of whether or not Clem is a child, she cared for him, wanted his best. I… [view original content]
This is coming from someone who hates Kenny, but even I have to admit that killing Larry was necessary. He suffered a massive heart attack a… morend there were no supplies or equipment to help him. Like Lee said, "he was going, one way or another."
However, that does not mean I agree with how Kenny handled the situation at all. Outside of a brief, knee-jerk apology, he never ever ever shows a shred of remorse for what he did. Even if it was necessary, couldn't he have the courtesy to at least treat Lilly with some semblance of sensitivity immediately after his father's death? If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of… [view original content]
You make Lee sound like a cold-hearted killer... he's not. If you caught your wife, sleeping with another man, you would act the same way. And he didn't mean to actually kill him. He meant to just kick his ass a good bit. So you can't just say, he's a murderer. Yes he has killed someone, but you don't have to judge him in the name of a "murderer," Now on the other hand, Kenny's doing with Larry is pure murder. Why, because it was intentional as fuck and he did not have any problems with doing so. He didn't even try to save him, all he thought was kill the moment he caught that heart attack. Even if he wasn't revivable, you could do all you can and then had someone ready to bash his brains in with the saltlick one he starts turning. Kenny, is a "murderer"
One comment I've seen a few times here is "Lee would kick Kenny's ass if he heard him speaking to Clem like that. .." or there abouts.
I lo… moreve Lee... love him. Broke my heart into a million pieces to say goodbye to the guy. And the more I play S1, the more attached I get. But let's not forget one thing here.
Lee is a murderer.
He was caught, he was convicted. He was found guilty and was on his way to jail for a very very very long time. Maybe even the death penalty.
But people forgave that because a/ he caught the guy sleeping with his wife. And b/ was kind to a little girl
Now if killing someone in anger isn't a reaction in the heat of the moment. I don't know what is?? Just because he was nice to a kid we can forgive him?
People here either condone rash actions or not. You can't side with Lee, but then go against a Kenny for doing the very thing Lee did that got him arrested. Nothing Kenny has said or done has compared to mur… [view original content]
Just want to say I really like the comparison you made between the Stranger and Kenny. I can't believe I never noticed the similarities between their losses, that really was a solid point about how they both lost their whole families but went down such drastically different paths. It really enforces the fact that Kenny is one tough redneck, and his resiliency is on another level. Thanks for pointing that out, now I have more fuel to fight the haters with!:D
Okay, I get it, Ken has lost his wife, his kid, and later on his girlfriend, but everyone has lost their loved ones, that don't make him spe… morecial
Yes, that is true, everyone has lost someone, but not only has Kenny lost people, he lost the love of his life and his one and only child, in addition to that losing his girlfriend, who, in a way, took the place of Katjaa and assisted him in dealing with the grief of losing her. Furthermore, not only did his lose his wife and child in the beginning of the apocalypse, but you can expect he also blames himself for their deaths, because he wasn't near them when the bandits attacked and the walkers got in. I'm sure he at least partially blames himself for not being there, and I will support this with something he says a bit after Katjaa's suicide. "I could've been a better father, a better father...
The truth is he isn't strong enough to get over it. He just CAN'T MOVE ON.
Clem is WAAAA… [view original content]
Comments
Like InKennyWeTrust said, Kenny told her to stay close to him, but she didn't.
And, also, so what if Kenny has a crowbar? Sarita has a screwdriver, I'm pretty sure. She just never takes it out, for some reason.
And, again, I don't remember anything being said about Kenny wanting to shoot her, so I think that's taking it a little too far. And, again, as I said, Larry easily could've been dead, so it wasn't an atrocity. Other people have done similar and worse things and been forgiven. Nick killed Matthew. Lee killed the senator. Lily killed Carley/Doug. Larry attempted to murder Duck. Ben was responsible for Katjaa and Duck's deaths. Clementine was responsible for Lee's death, and possibly Omid's, as well. But they've all been forgiven, as far as I can say, and I'm not saying I haven't forgiven them all, but you can't have a rule and not apply it to everyone. It just doesn't work that way, and isn't fair.
Everyone's best interest at heart? Are you serious?
First of all I meant Clem wasn't ALONE in the meat locker with Larry. Clem was definitely there, and she SAW Kenny murder Larry. She applied that same logic as well as seeing Reggie that Sarita may not be infected if she cut off her arm. But Larry was in a meat locker with LILLY, LEE and KENNY. Lee and Kenny are full adults and Larry, a big guy as he is, would still show signs of turning before turning. Also People get resuscitated all the time through CPR. You never seen a drowned victim get saved before or something? People can have their hearts stop beating for a good near 10 minutes and still almost be resuscitated. Kenny Murdered Larry, Who the hell was he to Smash a man's head in.
Also your playthrough doesn't mean much. Because even if you were on Kenny's side, he still ends up commiting a great deal of atrocities on his own accord. Which is Smashing Larry's head in and then Leavin Ben to die at the belltower giving YOU the choice but ultimately wanting you to leave him to die an unjustified death. And Ben never pulled a trigger. Blaming Ben for Katjaa and Duck's death is the same as saying Kenny caused the death of Carley and Doug because he didn't fix the car properly which caused it to break down on the side of the road and the argument to escalate outside. Ben never had any ill intentions of murder, and he was threatened by the bandits and told his friends were being tortured by the bandits and used as hostages. He isn't responsible for Duck being bit. The bandits didn't BITE duck.
And Kenny DOES threaten to shoot clementine. If you cut off Sarita's arm the camera pans to him holding a gun and threatening clementine. You may not have seen it but if cutting Sarita's arm is a direct parallel to Kenny Killing Larry and leaving Lilly to suffer. But Lilly didn't aim a gun or threaten to Shoot Kenny. Yet Kenny was full on contemplating on using that gun on Clementine. And what about the train. The man may have been in Grief but he had to stop the damn Train because if he didn't Duck woulda surely turned and be a danger to Katjaa, Clem and Chuck.
Also best intentions? Did you not see how creepy he wanted to steal Rebecca's baby? Its great he helped n'all but he was Pushing Rebecca to walk when she just gave birth, hike in the cold the very next day. And Regardless of your choice Rebecca was clutching her baby with everything she had to keep him warm and hold it before she dies and he just wanted to take it outta her hands as fast as possible? This baby is NOT Duck 2.0. The baby is NOT his. (hell there's theories that he purposely wanted Rebecca to die so he can have the baby himself which is just as justifiable given the evidence as your defenses of him being such a great guy).
Also to not help Lee search for clem after he's bit? Like you can't give Lee a final hand to look for a little girl in horrible terrible danger because you have a petty grudge on Lee not being on your side? Like His coping skills are nonexistant and his pettiness is truly legendary.
The times he acted for his personal gain far outweigh the times he acts for others (not even counting the determinents)
I'm used to Kenny lashing out on people, especially after he ditched a Lee who saved Duck because that Lee didn't agree with him on some stuff. He's not a rational guy, but there's not many more people in that universe that I would take into a gunfight with me. He's a good survivor. Sometimes he just momentarily forgets who his friends are. Clem saw his craziness, and she knows how to handle it. That's the way I saw things.
And these are all your opinions, and I respect that, but that doesn't mean I have to agree, and it also doesn't mean they're necessarily true.
I never said everyone was innocent, Lee is far from that but depending on your playthrough his murdering the senator was spurred through different means.
Nick faces the full brunt of Matthew and guess what? Walter can end up killing him.
We are NEVER given the option to suddenly Kill Kenny. Kenny is married to the narrative.
Lily murders carley/doug and guess what happens. She gets driven off the fandom hates her the group hates her.
But Kenny is suddenly with you through it with his entitlement Killing Larry (i already pointed this out way too many times I'm not repeating myself) and then wanting to Murder Ben for 2 whole episodes and then almost ditches you in the last. Then even after he redeems himself pulls more polarized insane and irradic behavior to Clementine in S2.
Again, as I pointed out, these are your opinions about Kenny.
Where is it opinions? My Opinion is I dont like him.
The Game presents all of these facts of which I gave you. I didn't pull these outta thin air, the narrative uses age old Cinematics and everything is presented in the script.
You can like his character all you like. But to be blinded by his flaws and all the crap he caused, i really wonder if your that heavy in denial and to clean your rose tinted glasses because he pulls some horrible crap if you disagree with him. Also keep in mind that disagreeing WITH him are all equally valid choices of said situations.
-You can side with Kenny because his fear is justified in the meat locker.
-But likewise you can side with Lilly who knows more about Larry's condition and is of course lashing out at the deranged stranger who murders her father regardless of your decision and her wishes.
But to then say it's OK and REASONABLE for Kenny to suddenly blame Clementine for doing something similar to Sarita (but yknow, not smashing a skull in and a slight hope she may survive and not be infected), Kenny is then suddenly above his own B.S rules? An 11 year old who watched him do the same thing in the Meat locker? No, that's a load of crock.
And it's not an opinion. Kenny is a murderer because if Larry is dead because of a heart attack and being resuscitated is not Murder. Then kenny should have tossed the baby who wasn't moving for a minute off the balcony in case it turned into a walker. But of course he didn't yknow why? Cuz That baby was in kenny's mind his.
They call those people Hypocrites. Kenny by fact is a hypocrite.
And so is practically everyone else in the world, and in the game. I don't see how that makes him any different from any of the other characters.
And I also don't need you insulting me, either. I came here to discuss, not have my intelligence undermined falsely by people who don't even know me. I also didn't come here to argue, and seeing as I can't convince you otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time continuing this conversation. Like I said, I came to discuss, not argue, and this conversation will most likely escalate to that level if I continued it. I don't have time for that.
And so, one final thing I must say. Kenny is probably my favorite character in the entire game, not because he's so perfect and he does everything right and is the most utterly lovely and sweet person (though he can be pretty damn nice.) I love him because he is one of the most realistic characters. I love him because of his flaws.
Here is a fact: Not all the characters in the game are hypocrites.
The only hypocrites are Kenny, Lee and Luke.
Here is another fact: All of the characters are flawed.
The only opinion here is: I don't like Kenny and the reason is BECAUSE he is a hypocrite.
But I provided you facts and reasons of why which is supported by the narrative.
He can be your best bro all you like because he sure can be if you do everything he wants and becomes his yes-man. But If you reread your first post you placed him on some really high pedestal of EVERYTHING HE DOES HAS REASON BEHIND IT, HE'S SO TORTURED.
Which i knocked out your reasoning with counterarguments. (people experienced heavier loss and worse loss than he did, Ben being one of them)
Here's another fact: Kenny is terrible at coping with loss, period. Justified loss or not. and him lashing out at Clementine is NOT healthy or safe when an 11 year old girl should NEVER experience as much loss as she has.
iPad autocorrect, I guess. Thanks for noticing, I'll fix it.
No one knows wether Larry was dead or not. And that's how telltale wants it. My point is, even if Larry was a live Kenny killing him was in extenuating circumstances. Pre apocalypse he would not have caved in a guys head because he'd just had a heart attack! Kenny did the right thing. Wether you agree with it or not. if he had turned, Larry would have killed at least one of them. Salt licks are heavy! Not something you can throw at a moving target and expect a headshot. Not unless you're Mr Universe! Those size blocks weigh well over 20th. They were in a locked room with no weapons. How many do you think would have survived?
As for the reason for Lee committing murder changing depending on your play through? Does that make it ok then? If he accidentally killed.someone? He still killed them. He still set out to harm.them if not kill them. For no reason other than adultery.
Kenny wanted to kill Ben after he had caused the death of his wife and child! I'd imagine that's why relatives of murder victims go to watch their killers be executed. They want revenge. A perfectly normal, human response
I'm sorry, but how in the hell is it Clem's fault that Sarita died, because Clem chopped off her arm? How does that even begin to make sense?
You walk in the herd, things go to hell. Clem is killing walkers who are approaching her. Then she sees Sarita being bitten. At that point Sarita is dead unless something is done immediately. The only possible shot is chopping off her arm, and for that Clem is suddenly to blame for Sarita's death?
I mean sure, the death happened in another way than it would have, but the death was already assured. It's like blaming a doctor for losing a terminally ill patient during a high-risk surgical procedure.
Yeah, but then there wouldn't be time for anything else in episode 5
I don't know about your playthrough, but in my world Kenny is about as selfish as they come.
I don't deny that he can be protective of people close to him, but the only people close to him are the ones who submit to the will of Kenny. Disagree and he might tolerate your existence, but don't look for any help or favours... That's what you get for disagreeing about the best flavour of ice-cream or what should be done about infected people (aka - it doesn't seem to me, that it matters how big of a thing you disagree with him about)
(I've already posted about this in another thread, so I'm just going to copy and paste it.)
Larry dying was a 100 % certainty. Larry didn't just stop breathing or go into cardiac arrest, he had a heart attack. It also has to be noted that Larry had a preexisting heart condition that required a specific type of medication that they didn't have access to while locked in a meat locker. Also, CPR alone is not sufficient in reviving someone who just had a heart attack, all it does for the victim is reduce the amount of brain damage done from lack of oxygen until an EMT with the proper equipment arrives. Not only would they need an AED, but most importantly a defibrillator. Obviously, seeing as they're in the middle of an apocalypse and are locked inside a meat locker by cannibals, nobody was coming to help them.With all this taken into account, along with the fact that they were locked inside a meat locker with absolutely no access to any of the required medication/equipment, and nobody there had professional training, Larry dying and then subsequently turning on them and eating everybody was inevitable.There was no saving Larry, so Kenny made the right call on immediately putting him down.
The reason why Kenny blames Ben so much for Katjaa and Duck's death is because Ben tells Kenny it's all his fault and that he's the blame for their deaths. After hearing such a shocking admission, it shouldn't be surprising that Kenny becomes enraged with Ben and now blames him. Even though it wasn't all Ben's fault, that is what he explicitly told Kenny only a day or two after losing his whole family. It makes complete sense why Kenny wanted Ben dead.
So because Kenny is holding a gun while yelling at Clem, that means he's threatening to shoot her? It has nothing to do with the fact that they're in the middle of a walker herd and people are shooting at them? He was clearly angry, and had good reason to be. Clem was the only one who witnessed Sarita being bit, of course he's going to direct his anger at her. He wants to think that her death could've been prevented, that Clem could've done something. That doesn't justify the things he said, but it definitely explains them. If you honestly think he was going to shoot Clem, or was even contemplating it, you are severely misinterpreting his character.
Are you for real? You've clearly never been around parents with their newborns, or have ever held a newborn baby. It is normal for parents to like the smell of their new baby, it's how they bond with them. After babies are born they have that "new baby smell" for a few months, and let me tell you as someone who has held babies not long after they're born, that they smell amazing. Kenny is right in that It really is a smell you never forget. And God forbid that the birth of a new baby boy makes Kenny reminiscent of his own dead son's birth. God forbid that helping bring this baby into such a cruel world makes him want to protect this child with all he has left, especially when one can see the mother is in such terrible shape, and is unable to properly protect her child. Kenny doesn't think the baby is "Duck 2.0", he is the only one in the whole group who has ever been a father, so of course he's going to be the only one who is paternal by nature.
she had a hammer and to add kenny knows how his loved ones died and knows they never turned clementine went over 3 months before she knew her parents were dead and still has to think that someday they might run into them again and they will try to kill her and maybe even lee to if you didn't shoot him that is what clementine lives with everyday that is her nightmare
I dont consider what Kenny did to Larry self defense when Larry wasnt even moving. At that moment, he was no threat whatsoever to Kenny. As for not being capable of murder, Carver?
I defiantly agree how these people did mess up the good vibe he was having I was happy yet pits when I found him or course I hugged him but I knew this group was in deep shot so all I thought was fuck more characters... personally I would have liked it better if they where less group members and we found Kenny and he saved us not like this where he gets dragged along I personally love Kenny out of my top 20 fav characters of all time I put Kenny at 8
Thats a null comment....if you read what I said before, Lee killed before the ZA. I doubt very much that Kenny would have been capable of cold blooded murder before the ZA. Larry, Carver, ANYTHING that happened after the world went to shit cannot be compared to anything pre apocalypse, and that goes for all characters. They are under a level of stress that nothing in the pre apocalypse world would come near.
They are not the people they were before the ZA. The ones that stayed true to their morals are the one walking around trying to eat our guys! Just look to the TV show for proof...season one Rick never would have been capable of biting out the throat of a guy, Andy and Kirkman have said so themselves. They have had to adapt, evolve, to do ANYTHING they need to survive, and they are all a little screwed in the head because of it. Some handle it better than others.
As for .Larry, he was NEVER coming back. Someone with severe heart problems, who has just had a massive heart attack needs a lot more than CPR to bring them back. If there had been a choice to let him be, and he'd turned and bitten someone, people would be bitching at Kenny for not killing him!
You shouldn't even try to explain... It never goes anywhere.
They'll justify ANYTHING he does. Period. I remember when Kenny came back into the mix, people said "Kenny and Clem against the world." He would NEVER hurt her, emotionally or physically. Now they're "backpeddling" by saying it was Clementine's doing? He's justified? No, he's not. She applied very similar logic to Kenny's back in the meat locker. The difference being Clementine was trying to save a life by using rash actions, Kenny was trying to end one.
Plus, if you don't side with him. He takes it upon himself to grab a heavy object and without saying anything, drops it literally a foot from Lee and Lilly. Putting them in danger. Jesus Christ, Lilly was SOAKED in her father's blood. But no, he's justified cause his family was in danger. But, so was Sarita...
I don't get it... "logic?"
Lol WHAT? Since when did i ever talk about the newborn aside from the fact that It was born silent and near still and could have easily been dead yet he didn't presume prematurely that it was destined to die.
Also Larry had a heart attack but he wasn't dead. people are resuscitated from worst situations and If Episode 1's end in the Drug store and Episode 3 of their continuous raid of the drug store, Basic storytelling can easily tell us that He had a decent supply of Nitroglycerin pills during Episode 2 or else he wouldn't have been helping with hammering walls and making blockades. What Kenny did was MURDER. And just because Ben felt RESPONSIBLE for what happened to at the Motor Inn doesn't mean he was. And if your defending Kenny being REASONABLY angry at him and WANTING him dead (who else would leave a kid to die/ want his death if not a murderer) Then REASON would state that Kenny should have seen that ben was no more responsible than HE was for not fixing the RV sooner.
If Ben didn't Placate the bandits, those bandits would have swarmed in earlier and then what? The situation would be no better than what happened. Duck's death was an accident, and Ben was no more responsible than anyone else at the Motor inn but for Kenny to suddenly blame it on the boy well AFTER his apology and you punching sense into Kenny/ talking sense to him on the train, yet he still wanted to ditch Ben at the Belltower? Your argument is weak.
Also Hello? He had a gun and the camera panned on Clementine's hesitance at him holding a gun. The camera wouldn't have done that if Kenny was of sound mind and if the threat didn't exist. Did the same thing happen when Lee saved Clementine in Episode 5 after meeting the stranger? Afterall Clem running away and being fooled by the stranger was what caused Lee to get bit and for many characters to die. No. The camera never panned to lee contemplating MURDERING her for what she caused. Yet Kenny did.
but lee learned from his mistakes and didn't run from them he chooses to try and save clementine even at the cost of his life
or you can say because of the ZA a persons true self comes out kenny willing to kill so easyly that's who he is in a way you can't hide who you are
What does this have to do with Kenny killing Larry being self-defense? Whether he would have gotten up or not, at that moment he wasnt a threat.
Exactly. I'm positive he'd take a bullet for Clem, hell he lost his eyeball for her. Like you said, despite the beatings he gets and how much he's gone through, nothing's killed him yet. I'm with Kenny to the end, just as Kenny promised my Lee he would be for him.
One question. Can anyone justify Kenny refusing to put Sarita out of her misery? If Sarita makes it out of the herd, she begs Kenny offscreen to kill her so she doesn't suffer. Kenny opts not to, ignoring reality and his responsibilities. I might forgive Kenny for his outburst one day provided he apologize in Episode 5, seeing as his optional apology in Episode 4 proves he knows he was wrong to blame Clem on some level. But what he did to Sarita, condemning the woman he supposedly loved to a slow and agonizing death out of stupidity and weakness is something I'll never let him live down.
I really hop some of you Kenny lovers who are defending his actions towards Clem are not parents...I really hope not....
Kenny has indeed become a very difficult character to relate to and understand. Initially he was someone very likeable and dependable, but as the struggle continued he ended up getting worse and worse in the way he treats people+handles situations. He is someone who essentially went through hell and was obviously scarred by the process. Does this justify his behavior? I don't think so. No sane man would lash out the way he did especially at an 11 year old girl who obviously cares about him a great deal. Does he deserve understanding? I believe he does.
I don't like Kenny at all for what he's become and nor do I excuse his actions at all, but I do understand why he's behaving that way. He is arguably the character who's had the worst losses in the game (I emphasize arguably here). Does me understanding mean that I approve of him? Nope. It just means that even though I disagree with his actions I can see where he is coming from after all that he's been through.
I don't love or hate him. I just know that he's someone I'm probably going to need to be very careful around in the future. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but that's as far as a judgment I'm willing to make for Kenny. Don't want to be too naive to trust him implicitly nor too wary to completely write him off when he could end up redeeming himself again.
You sir deserve a cookie. This may be the most funniest/ coolest thing I have seen in a while.
This is exactly why I wouldnt take him into a gunfight with me. He's too unpredictable, too quick to forget who his friends are. He could turn on you just as soon as help you. He's unreliable.
Sarita had a hatchet which she was using, what are you talking about? You expect her to be a Rambo armed to the teeth during their escape?
You claimed that Kenny's interactions with the baby were "creepy" in the comment I specifically replied to, I disproved your claim.
Did you even read my comment? Because if you had you would know that people cannot be resuscitated from a heart attack that far along without the proper equipment handy. And what do you mean "worst situations", they're in the middle of a fucking apocalypse, what can possibly be worse than that? Nitroglycerin pills are not magical "make it all better" pills. Nitroglycerin pills are for when a person is experiencing symptoms of a heart attack, specifically to prevent those symptoms from evolving into a full blown heart attack. Larry wasn't experiencing symptoms in the meat locker, he was actually having a heart attack. Even if he had nitroglycerin pills on him(which I doubt he did from that raid they did like 2 months ago, also they left most of their supplies back at the motel anyway) they wouldn't have helped at all.It wasn't murder, Kenny was putting down an extreme threat.
Ben may not be completely at fault, but he is still responsible for his own actions. He made a deal with cracked out bandits who told him they had is friends. These druggies would say anything to get there next fix, the fact that Ben doesn't realize this is shocking. Ben is a victim of his own naivety, but it doesn't change the fact that his failure to think things through caused a man to lose his son and wife. I'm not defending him, merely explaining his actions. Are you saying that if you lost your whole family in less than a day all because of some kid's ignorance and stupidity, you wouldn't be the least bit angry? You wouldn't have any thoughts about wanting to kill the person who has admitted to being the cause for your suffering? I sincerely doubt that you would be so forgiving and rational if it was your child and significant other who were killed. Did you...did you seriously just equate Ben making a deal with sketchy crackheads to Kenny not being able to fix the RV in time? Please tell me you're joking.
Let me spell this out for you, Ben was trading extremely important medical supplies to a group of cracked out junkies who said they had his friends and nothing more. As far as we know Ben never asked for any proof that these people had his friends. And if they did have his friends why didn't he tell the group? Because he was scared? That's not a good excuse at all. Furthermore, if Ben hadn't been making trade offs with the bandits, then there wouldn't have been a raid in the first place. He wants to ditch Ben at the Belltower because 2 minutes earlier he just found out that Ben played a part in the death of his whole family. In reality, it's your argument that's weak.
Clem has never been on the receiving end of Kenny's rage before, I can see why she would be nervous of his reaction. But frankly, it's glaringly obvious that TellTale adds in that sequence to fuel their "Kenny vs Luke" "Icecream or Pizza" schtick. They don't want to make it an easy decision for the players, so of course they're going to have moments that can reflect badly on Kenny. And you can rave about how Kenny could have shot Clem/about him wanting to shoot Clem as much as you like. Because in the end, Kenny didn't shoot Clem nor is he plotting to kill Clem. You are bending over backwards to prove a mere speculation that's already been disproven. Lee is ready to lay down his life to protect Clem, his whole arc is about redemption for his mistakes before the apocalypse. It's quite obvious that Lee doesn't care about himself dying, but only Clem's safety. Also, Lee didn't just lose his loved on 5 seconds prior, so your argument is invalid.
I for one never really liked Kenny anyway. Not just because of how he snapped. I stopped liking him way back in Season 1 when he murdered, yes, murdered, Larry, and how he suddenly forgot all the good things I did to him, including saving his son, and went all angry with me just because I wanted to have him not kill someone who might not even have died at all.
I am really annoyed of this stupid childish Kenny-is-great-stop-hating-him that's going around this Forum. I just hate it. I am sure that if it was Mike or Lilly or anyone else that would snap at Clem, that one wouldn't get a free pass. But since it's Kenny, it's okay, right?
And I for one don't care if he would have snapped at Clem or anyone else, it was wrong, and people shouldn't try to find excuses for it. I understand that it is human for people to find excuses for people they like, but still. Regardless of whether or not Clem is a child, she cared for him, wanted his best. I wouldn't tolerate it even if Clem would be an adult or whatever.
I am tired to have every second thread here be about Kenny, either because he shouldn't die, what he did was okay/wrong, and the worst of all, Kenny vs. Luke. Just.... stop it already, please...
This is coming from someone who hates Kenny, but even I have to admit that killing Larry was necessary. He suffered a massive heart attack and there were no supplies or equipment to help him. Like Lee said, "he was going, one way or another."
However, that does not mean I agree with how Kenny handled the situation at all. Outside of a brief, knee-jerk apology, he never ever ever shows a shred of remorse for what he did. Even if it was necessary, couldn't he have the courtesy to at least treat Lilly with some semblance of sensitivity immediately after his father's death? If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villainess.
There's also his comment to Lilly in Episode 3 that "You didn't want to leave because of your dad's health. But he's gone now." And he says this in a harsh and snide tone. That is a low blow Kenny, even Lee invariably tells him that he's gone too far with that remark ("Easy, Kenny..."), even if you've sided with him thus far.
And even if you decide to help Kenny, Lee invariably gives Lilly a genuine and heartfelt apology, unlike Kenny, who goes on to angrily insist that he did the right thing repeatedly. Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death, but it was perfectly fine for Kenny to be an ass to Lilly after she lost a loved one? And if you didn't help him, he constantly rubs it in Lee's face that "you're useless", or "you've never helped me", or "I did what I had to, and you know it, you moron".
And this is not a one time thing. If Kenny gets Alvin killed, he's still incredibly hostile towards Rebecca for the whole of Episode 3 and no one gave him shit for that, despite the fact that, you know, he got her husband killed. And don't say that he was only indirectly involved in Alvin's death, because guess what, Clem was only indirectly involved with Sarita's death, so why isn't she allowed to be hostile towards Kenny?
And I completely agree with you that had anyone else blown up at Clem, people wouldn't have been nearly as forgiving.
Thank you for writing this.
You make Lee sound like a cold-hearted killer... he's not. If you caught your wife, sleeping with another man, you would act the same way. And he didn't mean to actually kill him. He meant to just kick his ass a good bit. So you can't just say, he's a murderer. Yes he has killed someone, but you don't have to judge him in the name of a "murderer," Now on the other hand, Kenny's doing with Larry is pure murder. Why, because it was intentional as fuck and he did not have any problems with doing so. He didn't even try to save him, all he thought was kill the moment he caught that heart attack. Even if he wasn't revivable, you could do all you can and then had someone ready to bash his brains in with the saltlick one he starts turning. Kenny, is a "murderer"
Just want to say I really like the comparison you made between the Stranger and Kenny. I can't believe I never noticed the similarities between their losses, that really was a solid point about how they both lost their whole families but went down such drastically different paths. It really enforces the fact that Kenny is one tough redneck, and his resiliency is on another level. Thanks for pointing that out, now I have more fuel to fight the haters with!:D