He had hours between Howe's Hardware and the fountain in which he could've amputated Sarita's arm after escaping the horde. Instead, he spends it apparently moping and cost her her life that way.
I blame the writers for giving him too much plot armor. He gets away with crouching down and screaming at Clem in the middle of a horde, and you can't even call him out for not helping his supposedly beloved girlfriend. If the writers meant for us to think his caring for her was genuine, they fumbled with Kenny's behavior in the event that Clem didn't amputate her. I can understand his behavior if Clementine accidentally gets Sarita killed, but not when he himself is at fault for not being willing to cut her arm off.
Uhh Kenny wasn't even there when Sarita was being bit by the walker so I don't see how he's supposed to make that decision when he wasn't ev… moreen there? That's why Clem had the choice to kill the walker or cut off Sarita's arm.
Because he just saw his lover get mauled by walkers, how the hell is he supposed to process that he's losing his loved one and come to terms with that in less than 5 seconds whilst in the middle of a herd and people are shooting at them? He is in shock, of course he's too focused on "angsting". What do you want him to do, thank Clem for sparing her/cutting her arm off? We as viewers can see that Clem was only doing what she could to help, but do you really expect the person who is in the process of losing someone to realize that? I don't think anyone could have that kind of detached insight on such a high stress situation.
Kenny has every right to be angry whether Sarita's arm is intact or not. That is how some peop… [view original content]
My theory is that by the time they got to a secured spot where there weren't walkers nearby, that the infection had already set in. And there's also the possibility that Sarita doesn't want her arm cut off even if it might save her, just look at how she reacted if Clem does it. It's very likely that Kenny was respecting Sarita's wishes, or the rest of the group didn't want him to cut her arm off because it would attract walkers. But because we weren't there, we have no way of knowing what went down. All you and I are doing is speculating possibilities.
I agree with you there, the writers have fudged up several times when it comes to consistency. A sound and a little blood from Carlos attracts a swarm of walkers, but not to Nick? I also found it hard to believe that no walkers were alerted to all the noise Kenny, Clem, and Mike were making. Yeah, I kinda wish there was more variation of Kenny's reaction to Clem cutting her arm off/not cutting her arm off.
He had hours between Howe's Hardware and the fountain in which he could've amputated Sarita's arm after escaping the horde. Instead, he spe… morends it apparently moping and cost her her life that way.
I blame the writers for giving him too much plot armor. He gets away with crouching down and screaming at Clem in the middle of a horde, and you can't even call him out for not helping his supposedly beloved girlfriend. If the writers meant for us to think his caring for her was genuine, they fumbled with Kenny's behavior in the event that Clem didn't amputate her. I can understand his behavior if Clementine accidentally gets Sarita killed, but not when he himself is at fault for not being willing to cut her arm off.
You can.
What happened with the senator was a fight that ended up badly, Lee feels bad for it and even accepts his punishment. He truly u… morenderstands that although the ZA is bad, he's been given a second chance. After killing one guy before the ZA, he had to die saving one during the ZA.
Sorry if you answered the question elsewhere, I must not have seen it in the recent slew of new threads :P
The reason I'm so hard on Kenny is that this is a perfect example of his hypocrisy. Sarita was turning and she wanted to be put out of her misery. Kenny outright tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to." This wasn't like with Duck, where his loved one was too far gone and too young to decide what he wanted. Sarita was an adult who clearly knew what she wanted. She didn't want Kenny to wait, to force her to suffer in her last moments, and Kenny failed his responsibilities as Sarita's loved one. While I understand his reluctance to kill her, I can't stress enough that it's what she wanted, and I'm ticked off that he didn't give her the release she asked for and frankly deserved. I also doubt Kenny regretted his decision to let Sarita turn, since he says "I had to [wait]... in case she didn't turn," indicating that he believes he was in the right by entertaining his crazy fantasy that Sarita would be fine. Of course, he could've regretted it later, but there're no signs of that in the episode itself.
And y'know, I wouldn't be so hard on Kenny if he wasn't such a massive hypocrite and would actually learn something from his experiences. He stopped Larry from turning and obnoxiously brags about how he can do the hard thing, but runs with his tail between his legs when it happens to someone he cares about. He can indirectly get Alvin killed and acts like a complete ass to Rebecca in Episode 3 and no one calls him out on this, yet Clem isn't allowed to snap at him after she got one of Kenny's loved ones indirectly killed.
I am not under the impression that murdering someone is easier if they are family. I do, however, think that you owe it to your loved ones to put your own feelings aside and do what you can for them in their last moments. Clem was strong enough to put Lee out of his misery if that's what he wanted. Sarita deserved better than what Kenny gave her.
EDIT: And the worst part is that his refusal to kill Sarita wasn't even a matter of personal strength, like it was when Clem shot Lee. Bonnie or Mike could've taken care of Sarita just fine in Kenny's stead. Based on what dialogue we get on the matter (Mike's acknowledging that Sarita will definitely turn, his comment that Kenny started yelling at him when he tried to approach them, and Kenny admitting that Sarita wanted to be mercy killed), we can assume what happened while Clem was at the trailer park:
Mike and Bonnie knew that Sarita would turn. Sarita knew this as well, and asked to be mercy killed. Mike and Bonnie likely would've offered to do this for Kenny, if not for his insane insistence that Sarita wasn't like the rest, that she'd be fine (and I don't blame Mike and Bonnie for not protesting against Kenny's refusal to act, since he was armed and unstable at the time). Kenny condemned the woman he supposedly loved to a horrible, drawn-out demise primarily because he refused to accept reality, and not because he couldn't "bring himself to do it" or something, which would've been far more understandable. And that's messed up
I'm pretty sure I've already answered this for you in a different thread, but I'll answer it here too. Like Katjaa and Duck, Sarita is one i… moref Kenny's loved ones, she is part of his family. Every character whose had a family member bitten(Nick's Mom) or is going to turn inevitably(Lilly's Dad) has struggled with the task to put them down. Lilly thankfully didn't have to kill Larry, but Nick had to put down his Mom. And we all saw how badly that affected him. I'd argue that if you chose to have Clem shoot Lee, that having to do that caused her to become the stoic person she is now. We even have the choice to have Lee shoot Duck instead of Kenny to spare his last memory of Duck being him shooting his own son. Of course Kenny saw that Sarita was suffering, but its quite obvious he's still in a state of shock and denial. He even says that he wanted to wait just in case she turned out alright. in hindsight one can look back and think "I should've d… [view original content]
There's an unpleasant implication in having Sarita be equated to a child when she's draped over Kenny's lap - too weak to even utter a word, and the writers not even allowing Clementine to acknowledge her or apologize to her. At least Pete and Lee retained their dignity up until their last moments.
I'd say the writers messed up and made him come across rather unsympathetically if you spared Sarita's arm. I would cut him a little more slack for yelling at Clem if she's responsible for making Sarita scream out in pain, rather than yelling at her for literally doing nothing wrong.
Sorry if you answered the question elsewhere, I must not have seen it in the recent slew of new threads :P
The reason I'm so hard on Kenn… morey is that this is a perfect example of his hypocrisy. Sarita was turning and she wanted to be put out of her misery. Kenny outright tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to." This wasn't like with Duck, where his loved one was too far gone and too young to decide what he wanted. Sarita was an adult who clearly knew what she wanted. She didn't want Kenny to wait, to force her to suffer in her last moments, and Kenny failed his responsibilities as Sarita's loved one. While I understand his reluctance to kill her, I can't stress enough that it's what she wanted, and I'm ticked off that he didn't give her the release she asked for and frankly deserved. I also doubt Kenny regretted his decision to let Sarita turn, since he says "I had to [wait]... in case she didn't turn," indicating that he believe… [view original content]
Of course I'll side with him, til the end. It's incredible how many people try to justify their hate for Kenny with his natural, human reaction. You've known this guy since ep1, you know he doesn't handle the loss of his family very well. However, if you decide to listen to him he'll apologize and help everyone despite his pain. Kenny is a great man who's saved my ass more than one time in both seasons and in not determinant situations. He even lost a damn eye for Clementine's safety and I'm sure he loves her very much.
I can't believe how easily or conveniently people forget that or disregard his selfless moments in their arguments against him. As soon as Kenny's flaws surface you'll abandon him...that's so cruel.
Of course I'll side with him, til the end. It's incredible how many people try to justify their hate for Kenny with his natural, human react… moreion. You've known this guy since ep1, you know he doesn't handle the loss of his family very well. However, if you decide to listen to him he'll apologize and help everyone despite his pain. Kenny is a great man who's saved my ass more than one time in both seasons and in not determinant situations. He even lost a damn eye for Clementine's safety and I'm sure he loves her very much.
I can't believe how easily or conveniently people forget that or disregard his selfless moments in their arguments against him. As soon as Kenny's flaws surface you'll abandon him...that's so cruel.
Meh... Kenny is a psycho. Grief is not an excuse for being an jerk. He was never a particularly great thinker, but he obviously has had … moretoo many wires cross, and his head is a mess. He probably has some major brain injuries from that beating carver gave him too.
I wouldn't be surprised if he ditched the group just like he did lee, omid Christa and Clem last season.
It slightly pisses me off that Kenny yelled at her. Yes, he was grieving, but shouting at a child always hurts them, and I'm pretty sure Kenny knew that, but he did it anyway. What does piss me off, though, is how Kenny never apologised. He knew that what he did hurt Clem but on my playthrough, when he could have said he was sorry, all he did was completely disregard Clem's feelings, saying "I can't even look at you right now." So, as of right now, Kenny's moved into my asshole book. Whether he's only a temporary name in the list or not remains to be seen.
So you can kill someone in the normal world, but because youre nice to a little girl after the ZA, all is forgiven,
But you can be a nice law abiding family guy in the pre apolaclypse world, then AFTER the ZA, because you protect your family, and do what you need to do to survive, then shout at a litte girl. Youre a bad evil guy?
Right....
You can.
What happened with the senator was a fight that ended up badly, Lee feels bad for it and even accepts his punishment. He truly u… morenderstands that although the ZA is bad, he's been given a second chance. After killing one guy before the ZA, he had to die saving one during the ZA.
What harm has Kenny caused? My Lee helped kill Larry because it was the only option where they were going to get out of that room alive. He hasnt harmed ANYONE else
Let's raise the point about how Lee was able to change... To adapt to a screwed up world in a way that makes sense! He realised that the wor… moreld has gone to shit, and that every situation is potentially life-threatening. So you don't have time to have hissy fits in the middle of these situations!
If Kenny were to perhaps realise his mistakes, to realise the harm he has caused, to express any kind of remorse - and a change in future behaviour, then maybe I could deal with him a little easier. But no - he continues being a menace and danger to himself and everyone around him, because he has zero self-insight.
What you seem to forget is that Clementine is not a kid anymore. Kenny's words hurt, of course, they hurt me too, but he said that because he was in complete despair, as his voice actor has said in his ask.fm. I'm not trying to justify what Kenny did, but I'd appreciate it if you could understand where's he's coming from and why he's acting like that.
Now, did you tell him "I had to shoot Lee?" Invalidating his pain completely? Everyone's lost people, we know that, but Kenny just lost Sarita a few hours ago. Would you tell Clementine not to feel depressed if someone extremely important for her, someone like Lee or her parents died, because you've lost people too? sometimes you need to show empathy and support and that'll show you the best side of someone. If you did that with Kenny, you'll get an apology.
Of course I'll side with him, til the end. It's incredible how many people try to justify their hate for Kenny with his natural, human react… moreion. You've known this guy since ep1, you know he doesn't handle the loss of his family very well. However, if you decide to listen to him he'll apologize and help everyone despite his pain. Kenny is a great man who's saved my ass more than one time in both seasons and in not determinant situations. He even lost a damn eye for Clementine's safety and I'm sure he loves her very much.
I can't believe how easily or conveniently people forget that or disregard his selfless moments in their arguments against him. As soon as Kenny's flaws surface you'll abandon him...that's so cruel.
So Lee can kill someone pre apocalypse, but because hes nice to a little girl after - all is forgiven? Even though he beat and killed the St Johns, steal from the stranger. Yet Kenny can be a good man, but lose his temper after the world has gone to shit. And hes evil?
Lets not forget Lee shot and killed the bandits. You could use the sdame argument against them as you do against Kenny for killing Larry. We dont know that the bandits were going to kill any of the group. They only opened fire after Lee killed one, they may have just been threatening them...
You wouldn't trust someone willing to sacrifice himself for your sake(ep5)? take the blame for you(ep3)? Invite you in his group without doubts (ep2)?? someone who you've known longer than any other person in your group and has done an awfult lot for you ever since season 1 just because he yelled at you in a moment where he was consumed by grief, anger and despair?.
Wow.
You wouldn't trust someone willing to sacrifice himself for your sake(ep5)? take the blame for you(ep3)? Invite you in his group without do… moreubts (ep2)?? someone who you've known longer than any other person in your group and has done an awfult lot for you ever since season 1 just because he yelled at you in a moment where he was consumed by grief, anger and despair?.
Wow.
So Im replaying season 1 on my Note 3 and Ive just started episode 2, and am looking at it differently knowing what is coming in the meat locker. In the forst 30 minutes we know exactly why Kenny killed Larry - think back to Bens teacher. That guy was dead less than a minute before he reanimated and attacked Katjaa.
Now in the short timeframe of what, hours? That they all learn that you turn no matter what, they are then held captive by a group of cannibals - stressful in itself. BUT Kennys family is being held hostage, adding to his fear.
Suddenly the biggest, strongest guy of the group has a heart attack and drops. In a locked room with nowhere to hide. He is not breathing and his heart is not beating...
Bearing in mind the last time this happened, the guy was a walker within 60 seconds, can you really blame Kenny? Not to mention as a qualified first aider I know you cant bring someone round from a heart attack with CPR alone I am with Kenny 110% on this.
His actions were not premeditated, he didnt set out to kill the guy. He made a decision that would save the group, and took on the burden knowing that it would not be a popular decision, and would have serious ramifications down the line. But for the good of everyone (apart from Larry) he did it anyway.
He saved lives that day...hes a f**king hero! Was it a good call. No, not really. Was it the right call? Absolutely!
Replaying season 1, and its hit me that Kenny is going through the same shit this time as he did before. Is it any wonder hes a little on edge?
E1s1 Kenny and family join Lee and Clem after the death of Shawn
E1S2 Kenny and Clem team up after the death of Matthew
E2S1 Kenny's family is in danger from the St Johns
E2S2 Kennys girlfriend is held at gunpoint by Carver and his goons
S1E3 Duck gets bit, Lee beats up Kenny (or not) Kenny loses Katjaa and Duck
S2E3 Sarita gets bit, Kenny gets the crap beaten out of him by Carver
E4S1 Kenny has to kill the kid in the attic, his best friend gets bit
E4S2 His girl dies, with him reliving his grief of the past he brings a baby into the world but the mother dies (really....how much more shit can we throw at Ken?)
Im actually pretty scared for Kenny right now if that baby dies... for the second time that we've seen. Kenny is in a bandit attack - the last time we know this happened his son got bit leading to his wifes suicide. As if he doesnt have enough issues right now, with all the old wounds being re-opened, hes back in the same situation he lost his old family in. In Kennys words "The hits just keep on coming..."
As for me, I think for one moment Kenny saw Clementine as an incarnation of the painful past who returned only to hurt more.
He knew her at the time he lost Katjaa and Duck, and when he managed to build something new, she shows up again and brings along this new group who fucks up his new life by involving Carver.
As I interpret it he didn't talk to Clementine, but a symbol of fate.
That's why I didn't take any of what he said personally.
EDIT :
And I think it was very lazy from Telltale that in any case Kenny has the very same reaction with exact same words.
So Lee can kill someone pre apocalypse, but because hes nice to a little girl after - all is forgiven? Even though he beat and killed the St… more Johns, steal from the stranger. Yet Kenny can be a good man, but lose his temper after the world has gone to shit. And hes evil?
Lets not forget Lee shot and killed the bandits. You could use the sdame argument against them as you do against Kenny for killing Larry. We dont know that the bandits were going to kill any of the group. They only opened fire after Lee killed one, they may have just been threatening them...
No I wouldn't trust somebody who left me to die for just disagreeing with him once (when I saved his kid stuck up for him and his kid and fed him and his kid)and still acting like a prick even when IM the one who's trying to make up for it? NO I don't trust that hypocritical prick at all again I think he's "alright" but I sure as hell don't trust him
You wouldn't trust someone willing to sacrifice himself for your sake(ep5)? take the blame for you(ep3)? Invite you in his group without do… moreubts (ep2)?? someone who you've known longer than any other person in your group and has done an awfult lot for you ever since season 1 just because he yelled at you in a moment where he was consumed by grief, anger and despair?.
Wow.
Those were determinant situations. Kenny can say right away "I'll be with you, til the end" or he'd rather not go, and it's funny you mention this actually, because he will come with you even if you weren't 100% with him if you say Clem is your family.
What you don't seem to be considering is that his conviction to save Clementine later on is there, regardless of how you've been with him. As you can tell when he says "we will find her with or without you" when you're in the attick, or how his words while he sacrificed himself were "she needs you Lee!" or "Fucking save her, you hear me?".
If you decide to not trust him, so be it. I don't care, I trust Kenny with my life. He deserves that much.
No I wouldn't trust somebody who left me to die for just disagreeing with him once (when I saved his kid stuck up for him and his kid and fe… mored him and his kid)and still acting like a prick even when IM the one who's trying to make up for it? NO I don't trust that hypocritical prick at all again I think he's "alright" but I sure as hell don't trust him
That's a very interesting interpretation! and I can't agree more. It makes sense for Kenny to be completely mad at you if you cut Sarita's arm, but not when he blames you for killing the zombie that attacked his girlfriend.
As for me, I think for one moment Kenny saw Clementine as an incarnation of the painful past who returned only to hurt more.
He knew her … moreat the time he lost Katjaa and Duck, and when he managed to build something new, she shows up again and brings along this new group who fucks up his new life by involving Carver.
As I interpret it he didn't talk to Clementine, but a symbol of fate.
That's why I didn't take any of what he said personally.
EDIT :
And I think it was very lazy from Telltale that in any case Kenny has the very same reaction with exact same words.
Who's talking about determinants I'm talkin about what happened when I played and what I went through I don't care about what other players went through I'm talkin about how he reacted towards me in MY first playthrough I know how he can be and I got him to come along with, but I think of it as more of a "I'll need all the help I can get" than "you're my best buddy I'll need you till the end" I have my first playthrough and my kenny playthrough (where I'm on his side all the time) i'm not forgetting the first playthrough and how much of a hypocrite he can be
Difference is I'm not forgetting the "other" side of him so again no I don't trust him with my life now do I like him? Yes I think he's "interesting" but do I trust him? NO
Those were determinant situations. Kenny can say right away "I'll be with you, til the end" or he'd rather not go, and it's funny you mentio… moren this actually, because he will come with you even if you weren't 100% with him if you say Clem is your family.
What you don't seem to be considering is that his conviction to save Clementine later on is there, regardless of how you've been with him. As you can tell when he says "we will find her with or without you" when you're in the attick, or how his words while he sacrificed himself were "she needs you Lee!" or "Fucking save her, you hear me?".
If you decide to not trust him, so be it. I don't care, I trust Kenny with my life. He deserves that much.
You just proved my point though, it is far harder to kill someone you love than it is to kill someone you don't care about, or even hate.(Larry) He doesn't "run with his tail between his legs", he is struggling with the weight of doing such a task, and he has every reason to be. No one calls him out on it because the cabin group knows they pulled innocent bystanders into their issues, and by your logic it can be said that they indirectly killed Walter by leading Carver and his group to the Ski Lodge. He's pissed because he got kidnapped for something that has absolutely nothing to do with him or Sarita, they are now at liberty to being killed for another group's problems. Clem is a child, and up 'til Sarita's death there really hasn't been an appropriate time to lecture Kenny about his anger, nor does she really have the right to lecture him. Did you honestly want Clem to chew him out while in the prison camp or something?
Again, Clem is a child and Lee was her caretaker, he was practically her surrogate father at that point. And after finding out that her running away indirectly caused the whole group to get separated, Lee to get bit and possibly lose his arm, and then through all of that he still manages to track her down and save her from a crazy man..I'm pretty damn sure that Clem would do anything Lee asked her at that point, even if it was to shoot him in the head.
I don't see how that is hypocrisy at all. The only big difference between the way Kenny dealt with having to shoot Duck, and having to shoot Sarita is that Lee was present for one and not the other. As Lee, we see just how much denial Kenny is in that Duck is going to die, and the amount of guilt and sorrow he's feeling leaves him near inconsolable. Lee has to force Kenny to face the truth, either by fighting him, or talking him down. And Kenny listens to Lee, because he's known him for a good 3-4 months now and trusts him, Lee is his friend. If Lee had not been there to support Kenny while shooting his son, or to take the burden of shooting Duck himself, I'd argue that Kenny wouldn't have been able to shoot Duck until he was 100% sure that he was turned. I believe that Kenny always looked back at that moment and wondered if maybe, just maybe if he waited a little bit longer, Duck would've turned out ok. Of course, Duck's fate was sealed the minute he was bit, but it's a difficult pill to swallow, facing that your son is going to die and there's nothing you can do about it.
Fast forward to Sarita's death, and Lee isn't there to get through to Kenny in the midst of his grief, Lee is dead and gone just like the rest of his family. Underneath it all, Kenny is an optimist. And somewhere in that maelstrom of rage and sadness, I believe that that same shred of hope he had for Duck came back to the surface for Sarita. He wants to believe that there's just a little bit of hope that she'll pull through. But same with Duck, it's not going to happen. However, in that instance we are shown that Kenny still has his humanity, he still has hope, and after everything that's happened it's amazing that he still has the ability to hope, even just a little. If Mike and Bonnie did offer to put down Sarita for Kenny, it really isn't that hard to understand why he would refuse to let them. He just met Mike maybe 2 days ago, and Bonnie was apart of the crew that kidnapped him and Sarita, killed his friend, and brought him to a slave camp pretty much. They have given him no good reason to trust them, escaping with him from Carver's camp does not prove their loyalty, nor does it mean they actually give a shit about him or Sarita. All it means is that they wanted to get away from a psychotic dictator, to Kenny they can easily be seen as people only out for themselves. The only reason Kenny let Lee put down Duck is because Lee has saved him and his family before, they've known each other more than a day, and most importantly Lee is his friend. Other than Sarita, the only other person there that Kenny considers family is Clem, and he's not about to put the burden of killing Sarita on a child, especially when he's still under the hopeless impression that there had to have been something Clem could've done to prevent it. Kenny knew that Lee understood how much he was hurting, that he understood how hard it was for him to see his son in this state. And he trusted Lee to do what needed to be done when he wasn't strong enough to. Kenny isn't about to entrust the task of killing his girlfriend to 2 people he just met, one of which helped kidnap him and Sarita.
I'm not saying that Sarita didn't have every right to be put out of her misery, because she is a grown adult, and is entitled to her own decisions. Kenny did make a mistake by prolonging her suffering, and I'm not saying his hope that she would pull through is just, all I'm trying to explain to you is that Kenny had a perfectly human response to a tragedy, and by also taking his personality into account it is very much in character that he'd be in so much denial of what's about to happen to Sarita. Ideally, he should've given Sarita her last wish(if it was, we don't really know or not for sure) but he didn't, and I don't think that is a good enough reason to hate him so much. I really dislike that you keep saying that Kenny "supposedly" loved Sarita, as though him being unable to stab/shoot/bash her in the head while she was still conscious and human means he didn't love her. Well then it is understandable, because he couldn't bring himself to do it. Him holding on to a small amount of hope that Sarita would be ok doesn't mean he wasn't aware of the reality of the situation. All it means is, just like any other human would be in a tragedy, that he wishes it were different, and he's desperately hoping for a miracle that Sarita will be ok. And just like in real life, wanting something with all your being is never enough to save your loved one from an inevitable fate.
You don't have to like Kenny, I can tell you really really dislike him. All I'm asking is that you try not to let your blatant dislike for him twist his character into something he's not.
Sorry if you answered the question elsewhere, I must not have seen it in the recent slew of new threads :P
The reason I'm so hard on Kenn… morey is that this is a perfect example of his hypocrisy. Sarita was turning and she wanted to be put out of her misery. Kenny outright tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to." This wasn't like with Duck, where his loved one was too far gone and too young to decide what he wanted. Sarita was an adult who clearly knew what she wanted. She didn't want Kenny to wait, to force her to suffer in her last moments, and Kenny failed his responsibilities as Sarita's loved one. While I understand his reluctance to kill her, I can't stress enough that it's what she wanted, and I'm ticked off that he didn't give her the release she asked for and frankly deserved. I also doubt Kenny regretted his decision to let Sarita turn, since he says "I had to [wait]... in case she didn't turn," indicating that he believe… [view original content]
But that way you'll never be objective in your opinion! You'll never be able to discuss or relate with anyone who doesn't think like you because they didn't interact the same way you did with Kenny. That's why I mentioned the determinant aspects of it, because they vary for each player, but the scenes I mentioned do not, so I'll stick with them when I try to stand for Kenny, because they'll happen regardless of anything and that's what counts in my opinion
Who's talking about determinants I'm talkin about what happened when I played and what I went through I don't care about what other players … morewent through I'm talkin about how he reacted towards me in MY first playthrough I know how he can be and I got him to come along with, but I think of it as more of a "I'll need all the help I can get" than "you're my best buddy I'll need you till the end" I have my first playthrough and my kenny playthrough (where I'm on his side all the time) i'm not forgetting the first playthrough and how much of a hypocrite he can be
Difference is I'm not forgetting the "other" side of him so again no I don't trust him with my life now do I like him? Yes I think he's "interesting" but do I trust him? NO
No need to apologize, it's not a big deal.:)
You just proved my point though, it is far harder to kill someone you love than it is to kil… morel someone you don't care about, or even hate.(Larry) He doesn't "run with his tail between his legs", he is struggling with the weight of doing such a task, and he has every reason to be. No one calls him out on it because the cabin group knows they pulled innocent bystanders into their issues, and by your logic it can be said that they indirectly killed Walter by leading Carver and his group to the Ski Lodge. He's pissed because he got kidnapped for something that has absolutely nothing to do with him or Sarita, they are now at liberty to being killed for another group's problems. Clem is a child, and up 'til Sarita's death there really hasn't been an appropriate time to lecture Kenny about his anger, nor does she really have the right to lecture him. Did you honestly want Clem to chew him out while in … [view original content]
You can't say that, "solely around his feelings". Please remember how he never mentioned his past to Sarita or the rest of his people, I'm sure not to bother them with his grief. And how in season 1 he never burdened you with his pain. Even when Christa tried to comfort him, he goes and say "Lee's lost his family too", completely disregarding his own situation for the sake of EVERYONE.
Can you blame him for being mad after his sudden, unexpected girlfriend's death? He's not only mad at Clem, he's mad at the world, at himself. He got something, it was because of Sarita that he's alive and he got his second chance only to horribly die in front of him...give him a break. He got out of that situation anyways and decided to help everyone once again, despite his great loss. All he needed was some time for himself, he got it, he put himself together and became helpful once again, how is that nobody pays attention to that?.
How can we vilify Lilly when we've forgiven Lee? How can we forget Sarita for being the one who died?
Personally, my annoyance with Kenn… morey is less to do with the character himself than with the way he's become so obsessed over by the fanbase and by how the writers themselves underwrite other characters so that they can focus just on his grief. While it's understandable for him to be sad, the fact that you can't even apologize to Sarita accidentally confirms Kenny's mindset that the world revolves around solely around his feelings.
Really, I think it's my anger at Sarita being confirmed to be nothing more than cannon fodder for Kenny's grief that makes me disillusioned with the writers. They really wanted to focus on him rather than stick with developing the cabin members' stories to a better degree. What if NICK, Kenny's look-alike, was the one doing his reckless decisions and gradually having his friendship with Luke unravel because of his grief?
One comment I've seen a few times here is "Lee would kick Kenny's ass if he heard him speaking to Clem like that. .." or there abouts.
I lo… moreve Lee... love him. Broke my heart into a million pieces to say goodbye to the guy. And the more I play S1, the more attached I get. But let's not forget one thing here.
Lee is a murderer.
He was caught, he was convicted. He was found guilty and was on his way to jail for a very very very long time. Maybe even the death penalty.
But people forgave that because a/ he caught the guy sleeping with his wife. And b/ was kind to a little girl
Now if killing someone in anger isn't a reaction in the heat of the moment. I don't know what is?? Just because he was nice to a kid we can forgive him?
People here either condone rash actions or not. You can't side with Lee, but then go against a Kenny for doing the very thing Lee did that got him arrested. Nothing Kenny has said or done has compared to mur… [view original content]
Well the obvious answer would of course be Carver.
But the harm I'm talking about is obviously more the harm he does to his group due to his lack of reflection.
And in that regard Carver is relevant. Kenny is wasting time, due to his own selfish desire, causing the herd escape plan to at least become more dangerous than it needed to be.
Since Kenny is going to do whatever Kenny wants to do in any given situation, then you have the choice of either going with it (I. E. letting Mr. 'I don't really think my plans through' lead) or if you (and the rest of the group) think of another option or at least want to talk it over, you have to deal with Kenny doing whatever he was going to do anyway - disregarding his group - and giving you shit about his disregard of the group.
He's harmful because he lacks restraint. And if in your playthrough he hasn't already either left people to die (Ben & Lee spring to mind from my playthrough) or caused people to fall into unnecessary danger and possible death (Sarita & Carlos - and thus by extension [though this isn't fair I admit] Sarah) then I don't know how you're playing it.
What harm has Kenny caused? My Lee helped kill Larry because it was the only option where they were going to get out of that room alive. He hasnt harmed ANYONE else
Im sorry but I did not have the same experience you do, therefore I dont feel the same way. My experiences with Kenny have been anger and betrayal so I dont feel compelled to justify his every action. Him doing one or two selfless things for a change doesn't erase everything else. IMO, refusing to help my Lee look for Clementine when Lee was dying and Clem was taken by a man who could have done god knows what to her, is unforgivable. So I understand he's hurting, but a great man? Again, not in my estimation.
Of course I'll side with him, til the end. It's incredible how many people try to justify their hate for Kenny with his natural, human react… moreion. You've known this guy since ep1, you know he doesn't handle the loss of his family very well. However, if you decide to listen to him he'll apologize and help everyone despite his pain. Kenny is a great man who's saved my ass more than one time in both seasons and in not determinant situations. He even lost a damn eye for Clementine's safety and I'm sure he loves her very much.
I can't believe how easily or conveniently people forget that or disregard his selfless moments in their arguments against him. As soon as Kenny's flaws surface you'll abandon him...that's so cruel.
Nick wasn't thinking straight after the death of his uncle, but he thought Matthew was a threat to his friends. That's the reason he shot Matthew. He was trying to protect them!
Luke didn't bring Carver to the cabin, they were trying to stay away from Carver but he found them. Walter only got shot because Kenny shot one of Carvers men so if you want to blame something for that then it would be Kenny for shooting first. No one could prevent Sarita from getting bit. Everyone knew the plan. They had to stay calm and walk slow in walker guts. Sadly Sarita didn't make it.
Without getting into this Kenny vs Luke thing, Luke's group really fucked with Kenny's original group.
Nick killed Matthew for no reason,… more and then Luke's group brought Carver's group (that was looking for revenge, wich Kenny's group had nothing to do about it) to the lodge, resulting in Walter's death and later Sarita's.
I'm not saying that the cabin group is "evil" or something, but they did some messed up shit with Kenny's group, accidentaly or not.
i agree with your post for the most part. However, I don't think you can blame Luke for getting caught. He'd followed Carvers van ON FOOT for 5 days to get his friends out. He was doing his best to learn the pattern schedule for the best chance of them getting out. He couldn't afford to sleep incase he got caught. He was naturally exhausted and hungry and that's when he made the mistake of trying to steal some food. Like I said he was exhausted and hungry, put yourself in his shoes and on seeing all that food, tell me you wouldn't try and get some to help keep your energy levels up?
Because of Clementine he goes with them, and almost gets beaten to death, and loses his girl. Because of Clementine. Because god knows, if s… morehe wasnt with them, they wouldnt have stayed with Luke and co.
No, not because of Clementine. Kenny is an adult, he is old enough to make decisions himself. Because of Kenny is why he went with the cabin group (really it was Carver but still). Don't blame that on Clementine. She didn't say "Kenny I found you! Now you have to stay with me and my new group.". Kenny made a choice and took the beating for Clementine (which I respect him for). If you MUST blame someone for that, blame Luke for getting caught. I blame Sarita for getting bitten but if you MUST blame someone else blame Carver. Clementine did not cause any of these things, other people did. But Kenny blames her and only her, and that's not okay with me. I know Kenny is an emotional man and her deals with pain that way. But its not right to treat someone that way just because its "how he deals with it".
Comments
He had hours between Howe's Hardware and the fountain in which he could've amputated Sarita's arm after escaping the horde. Instead, he spends it apparently moping and cost her her life that way.
I blame the writers for giving him too much plot armor. He gets away with crouching down and screaming at Clem in the middle of a horde, and you can't even call him out for not helping his supposedly beloved girlfriend. If the writers meant for us to think his caring for her was genuine, they fumbled with Kenny's behavior in the event that Clem didn't amputate her. I can understand his behavior if Clementine accidentally gets Sarita killed, but not when he himself is at fault for not being willing to cut her arm off.
My theory is that by the time they got to a secured spot where there weren't walkers nearby, that the infection had already set in. And there's also the possibility that Sarita doesn't want her arm cut off even if it might save her, just look at how she reacted if Clem does it. It's very likely that Kenny was respecting Sarita's wishes, or the rest of the group didn't want him to cut her arm off because it would attract walkers. But because we weren't there, we have no way of knowing what went down. All you and I are doing is speculating possibilities.
I agree with you there, the writers have fudged up several times when it comes to consistency. A sound and a little blood from Carlos attracts a swarm of walkers, but not to Nick? I also found it hard to believe that no walkers were alerted to all the noise Kenny, Clem, and Mike were making. Yeah, I kinda wish there was more variation of Kenny's reaction to Clem cutting her arm off/not cutting her arm off.
Yeah
Sorry if you answered the question elsewhere, I must not have seen it in the recent slew of new threads :P
The reason I'm so hard on Kenny is that this is a perfect example of his hypocrisy. Sarita was turning and she wanted to be put out of her misery. Kenny outright tells you "She didn't want me to wait. But I had to." This wasn't like with Duck, where his loved one was too far gone and too young to decide what he wanted. Sarita was an adult who clearly knew what she wanted. She didn't want Kenny to wait, to force her to suffer in her last moments, and Kenny failed his responsibilities as Sarita's loved one. While I understand his reluctance to kill her, I can't stress enough that it's what she wanted, and I'm ticked off that he didn't give her the release she asked for and frankly deserved. I also doubt Kenny regretted his decision to let Sarita turn, since he says "I had to [wait]... in case she didn't turn," indicating that he believes he was in the right by entertaining his crazy fantasy that Sarita would be fine. Of course, he could've regretted it later, but there're no signs of that in the episode itself.
And y'know, I wouldn't be so hard on Kenny if he wasn't such a massive hypocrite and would actually learn something from his experiences. He stopped Larry from turning and obnoxiously brags about how he can do the hard thing, but runs with his tail between his legs when it happens to someone he cares about. He can indirectly get Alvin killed and acts like a complete ass to Rebecca in Episode 3 and no one calls him out on this, yet Clem isn't allowed to snap at him after she got one of Kenny's loved ones indirectly killed.
I am not under the impression that murdering someone is easier if they are family. I do, however, think that you owe it to your loved ones to put your own feelings aside and do what you can for them in their last moments. Clem was strong enough to put Lee out of his misery if that's what he wanted. Sarita deserved better than what Kenny gave her.
EDIT: And the worst part is that his refusal to kill Sarita wasn't even a matter of personal strength, like it was when Clem shot Lee. Bonnie or Mike could've taken care of Sarita just fine in Kenny's stead. Based on what dialogue we get on the matter (Mike's acknowledging that Sarita will definitely turn, his comment that Kenny started yelling at him when he tried to approach them, and Kenny admitting that Sarita wanted to be mercy killed), we can assume what happened while Clem was at the trailer park:
Mike and Bonnie knew that Sarita would turn. Sarita knew this as well, and asked to be mercy killed. Mike and Bonnie likely would've offered to do this for Kenny, if not for his insane insistence that Sarita wasn't like the rest, that she'd be fine (and I don't blame Mike and Bonnie for not protesting against Kenny's refusal to act, since he was armed and unstable at the time). Kenny condemned the woman he supposedly loved to a horrible, drawn-out demise primarily because he refused to accept reality, and not because he couldn't "bring himself to do it" or something, which would've been far more understandable. And that's messed up
There's an unpleasant implication in having Sarita be equated to a child when she's draped over Kenny's lap - too weak to even utter a word, and the writers not even allowing Clementine to acknowledge her or apologize to her. At least Pete and Lee retained their dignity up until their last moments.
I'd say the writers messed up and made him come across rather unsympathetically if you spared Sarita's arm. I would cut him a little more slack for yelling at Clem if she's responsible for making Sarita scream out in pain, rather than yelling at her for literally doing nothing wrong.
Ha, that would probably be worse than what we speculated Lee did
Of course I'll side with him, til the end. It's incredible how many people try to justify their hate for Kenny with his natural, human reaction. You've known this guy since ep1, you know he doesn't handle the loss of his family very well. However, if you decide to listen to him he'll apologize and help everyone despite his pain. Kenny is a great man who's saved my ass more than one time in both seasons and in not determinant situations. He even lost a damn eye for Clementine's safety and I'm sure he loves her very much.
I can't believe how easily or conveniently people forget that or disregard his selfless moments in their arguments against him. As soon as Kenny's flaws surface you'll abandon him...that's so cruel.
Well said! xx
Ditch the group? He got seperated by almost sacrificing himself! If anything they ditched Kenny!
It slightly pisses me off that Kenny yelled at her. Yes, he was grieving, but shouting at a child always hurts them, and I'm pretty sure Kenny knew that, but he did it anyway. What does piss me off, though, is how Kenny never apologised. He knew that what he did hurt Clem but on my playthrough, when he could have said he was sorry, all he did was completely disregard Clem's feelings, saying "I can't even look at you right now." So, as of right now, Kenny's moved into my asshole book. Whether he's only a temporary name in the list or not remains to be seen.
So you can kill someone in the normal world, but because youre nice to a little girl after the ZA, all is forgiven,
But you can be a nice law abiding family guy in the pre apolaclypse world, then AFTER the ZA, because you protect your family, and do what you need to do to survive, then shout at a litte girl. Youre a bad evil guy?
Right....
What harm has Kenny caused? My Lee helped kill Larry because it was the only option where they were going to get out of that room alive. He hasnt harmed ANYONE else
What you seem to forget is that Clementine is not a kid anymore. Kenny's words hurt, of course, they hurt me too, but he said that because he was in complete despair, as his voice actor has said in his ask.fm. I'm not trying to justify what Kenny did, but I'd appreciate it if you could understand where's he's coming from and why he's acting like that.
Now, did you tell him "I had to shoot Lee?" Invalidating his pain completely? Everyone's lost people, we know that, but Kenny just lost Sarita a few hours ago. Would you tell Clementine not to feel depressed if someone extremely important for her, someone like Lee or her parents died, because you've lost people too? sometimes you need to show empathy and support and that'll show you the best side of someone. If you did that with Kenny, you'll get an apology.
No I haven't forgotten, doesn't mean I have to trust him, do I think he's ALRIGHT? Yes, do I trust him? HELL NO
Kenny was a good man, still is a good man. But this world changed him....
So Lee can kill someone pre apocalypse, but because hes nice to a little girl after - all is forgiven? Even though he beat and killed the St Johns, steal from the stranger. Yet Kenny can be a good man, but lose his temper after the world has gone to shit. And hes evil?
Lets not forget Lee shot and killed the bandits. You could use the sdame argument against them as you do against Kenny for killing Larry. We dont know that the bandits were going to kill any of the group. They only opened fire after Lee killed one, they may have just been threatening them...
You wouldn't trust someone willing to sacrifice himself for your sake(ep5)? take the blame for you(ep3)? Invite you in his group without doubts (ep2)?? someone who you've known longer than any other person in your group and has done an awfult lot for you ever since season 1 just because he yelled at you in a moment where he was consumed by grief, anger and despair?.
Wow.
Just perfectly said! x
So Im replaying season 1 on my Note 3 and Ive just started episode 2, and am looking at it differently knowing what is coming in the meat locker. In the forst 30 minutes we know exactly why Kenny killed Larry - think back to Bens teacher. That guy was dead less than a minute before he reanimated and attacked Katjaa.
Now in the short timeframe of what, hours? That they all learn that you turn no matter what, they are then held captive by a group of cannibals - stressful in itself. BUT Kennys family is being held hostage, adding to his fear.
Suddenly the biggest, strongest guy of the group has a heart attack and drops. In a locked room with nowhere to hide. He is not breathing and his heart is not beating...
Bearing in mind the last time this happened, the guy was a walker within 60 seconds, can you really blame Kenny? Not to mention as a qualified first aider I know you cant bring someone round from a heart attack with CPR alone I am with Kenny 110% on this.
His actions were not premeditated, he didnt set out to kill the guy. He made a decision that would save the group, and took on the burden knowing that it would not be a popular decision, and would have serious ramifications down the line. But for the good of everyone (apart from Larry) he did it anyway.
He saved lives that day...hes a f**king hero! Was it a good call. No, not really. Was it the right call? Absolutely!
Replaying season 1, and its hit me that Kenny is going through the same shit this time as he did before. Is it any wonder hes a little on edge?
E1s1 Kenny and family join Lee and Clem after the death of Shawn
E1S2 Kenny and Clem team up after the death of Matthew
E2S1 Kenny's family is in danger from the St Johns
E2S2 Kennys girlfriend is held at gunpoint by Carver and his goons
S1E3 Duck gets bit, Lee beats up Kenny (or not) Kenny loses Katjaa and Duck
S2E3 Sarita gets bit, Kenny gets the crap beaten out of him by Carver
E4S1 Kenny has to kill the kid in the attic, his best friend gets bit
E4S2 His girl dies, with him reliving his grief of the past he brings a baby into the world but the mother dies (really....how much more shit can we throw at Ken?)
Im actually pretty scared for Kenny right now if that baby dies... for the second time that we've seen. Kenny is in a bandit attack - the last time we know this happened his son got bit leading to his wifes suicide. As if he doesnt have enough issues right now, with all the old wounds being re-opened, hes back in the same situation he lost his old family in. In Kennys words "The hits just keep on coming..."
As for me, I think for one moment Kenny saw Clementine as an incarnation of the painful past who returned only to hurt more.
He knew her at the time he lost Katjaa and Duck, and when he managed to build something new, she shows up again and brings along this new group who fucks up his new life by involving Carver.
As I interpret it he didn't talk to Clementine, but a symbol of fate.
That's why I didn't take any of what he said personally.
EDIT :
And I think it was very lazy from Telltale that in any case Kenny has the very same reaction with exact same words.
Lily was the one that killed one
No I wouldn't trust somebody who left me to die for just disagreeing with him once (when I saved his kid stuck up for him and his kid and fed him and his kid)and still acting like a prick even when IM the one who's trying to make up for it? NO I don't trust that hypocritical prick at all again I think he's "alright" but I sure as hell don't trust him
Those were determinant situations. Kenny can say right away "I'll be with you, til the end" or he'd rather not go, and it's funny you mention this actually, because he will come with you even if you weren't 100% with him if you say Clem is your family.
What you don't seem to be considering is that his conviction to save Clementine later on is there, regardless of how you've been with him. As you can tell when he says "we will find her with or without you" when you're in the attick, or how his words while he sacrificed himself were "she needs you Lee!" or "Fucking save her, you hear me?".
If you decide to not trust him, so be it. I don't care, I trust Kenny with my life. He deserves that much.
That's a very interesting interpretation! and I can't agree more. It makes sense for Kenny to be completely mad at you if you cut Sarita's arm, but not when he blames you for killing the zombie that attacked his girlfriend.
Who's talking about determinants I'm talkin about what happened when I played and what I went through I don't care about what other players went through I'm talkin about how he reacted towards me in MY first playthrough I know how he can be and I got him to come along with, but I think of it as more of a "I'll need all the help I can get" than "you're my best buddy I'll need you till the end" I have my first playthrough and my kenny playthrough (where I'm on his side all the time) i'm not forgetting the first playthrough and how much of a hypocrite he can be
Difference is I'm not forgetting the "other" side of him so again no I don't trust him with my life now do I like him? Yes I think he's "interesting" but do I trust him? NO
No need to apologize, it's not a big deal.:)
You just proved my point though, it is far harder to kill someone you love than it is to kill someone you don't care about, or even hate.(Larry) He doesn't "run with his tail between his legs", he is struggling with the weight of doing such a task, and he has every reason to be. No one calls him out on it because the cabin group knows they pulled innocent bystanders into their issues, and by your logic it can be said that they indirectly killed Walter by leading Carver and his group to the Ski Lodge. He's pissed because he got kidnapped for something that has absolutely nothing to do with him or Sarita, they are now at liberty to being killed for another group's problems. Clem is a child, and up 'til Sarita's death there really hasn't been an appropriate time to lecture Kenny about his anger, nor does she really have the right to lecture him. Did you honestly want Clem to chew him out while in the prison camp or something?
Again, Clem is a child and Lee was her caretaker, he was practically her surrogate father at that point. And after finding out that her running away indirectly caused the whole group to get separated, Lee to get bit and possibly lose his arm, and then through all of that he still manages to track her down and save her from a crazy man..I'm pretty damn sure that Clem would do anything Lee asked her at that point, even if it was to shoot him in the head.
I don't see how that is hypocrisy at all. The only big difference between the way Kenny dealt with having to shoot Duck, and having to shoot Sarita is that Lee was present for one and not the other. As Lee, we see just how much denial Kenny is in that Duck is going to die, and the amount of guilt and sorrow he's feeling leaves him near inconsolable. Lee has to force Kenny to face the truth, either by fighting him, or talking him down. And Kenny listens to Lee, because he's known him for a good 3-4 months now and trusts him, Lee is his friend. If Lee had not been there to support Kenny while shooting his son, or to take the burden of shooting Duck himself, I'd argue that Kenny wouldn't have been able to shoot Duck until he was 100% sure that he was turned. I believe that Kenny always looked back at that moment and wondered if maybe, just maybe if he waited a little bit longer, Duck would've turned out ok. Of course, Duck's fate was sealed the minute he was bit, but it's a difficult pill to swallow, facing that your son is going to die and there's nothing you can do about it.
Fast forward to Sarita's death, and Lee isn't there to get through to Kenny in the midst of his grief, Lee is dead and gone just like the rest of his family. Underneath it all, Kenny is an optimist. And somewhere in that maelstrom of rage and sadness, I believe that that same shred of hope he had for Duck came back to the surface for Sarita. He wants to believe that there's just a little bit of hope that she'll pull through. But same with Duck, it's not going to happen. However, in that instance we are shown that Kenny still has his humanity, he still has hope, and after everything that's happened it's amazing that he still has the ability to hope, even just a little. If Mike and Bonnie did offer to put down Sarita for Kenny, it really isn't that hard to understand why he would refuse to let them. He just met Mike maybe 2 days ago, and Bonnie was apart of the crew that kidnapped him and Sarita, killed his friend, and brought him to a slave camp pretty much. They have given him no good reason to trust them, escaping with him from Carver's camp does not prove their loyalty, nor does it mean they actually give a shit about him or Sarita. All it means is that they wanted to get away from a psychotic dictator, to Kenny they can easily be seen as people only out for themselves. The only reason Kenny let Lee put down Duck is because Lee has saved him and his family before, they've known each other more than a day, and most importantly Lee is his friend. Other than Sarita, the only other person there that Kenny considers family is Clem, and he's not about to put the burden of killing Sarita on a child, especially when he's still under the hopeless impression that there had to have been something Clem could've done to prevent it. Kenny knew that Lee understood how much he was hurting, that he understood how hard it was for him to see his son in this state. And he trusted Lee to do what needed to be done when he wasn't strong enough to. Kenny isn't about to entrust the task of killing his girlfriend to 2 people he just met, one of which helped kidnap him and Sarita.
I'm not saying that Sarita didn't have every right to be put out of her misery, because she is a grown adult, and is entitled to her own decisions. Kenny did make a mistake by prolonging her suffering, and I'm not saying his hope that she would pull through is just, all I'm trying to explain to you is that Kenny had a perfectly human response to a tragedy, and by also taking his personality into account it is very much in character that he'd be in so much denial of what's about to happen to Sarita. Ideally, he should've given Sarita her last wish(if it was, we don't really know or not for sure) but he didn't, and I don't think that is a good enough reason to hate him so much. I really dislike that you keep saying that Kenny "supposedly" loved Sarita, as though him being unable to stab/shoot/bash her in the head while she was still conscious and human means he didn't love her. Well then it is understandable, because he couldn't bring himself to do it. Him holding on to a small amount of hope that Sarita would be ok doesn't mean he wasn't aware of the reality of the situation. All it means is, just like any other human would be in a tragedy, that he wishes it were different, and he's desperately hoping for a miracle that Sarita will be ok. And just like in real life, wanting something with all your being is never enough to save your loved one from an inevitable fate.
You don't have to like Kenny, I can tell you really really dislike him. All I'm asking is that you try not to let your blatant dislike for him twist his character into something he's not.
I feel the same way.
People often lash out at others when they're hurting.
I know this from experience.
But that way you'll never be objective in your opinion! You'll never be able to discuss or relate with anyone who doesn't think like you because they didn't interact the same way you did with Kenny. That's why I mentioned the determinant aspects of it, because they vary for each player, but the scenes I mentioned do not, so I'll stick with them when I try to stand for Kenny, because they'll happen regardless of anything and that's what counts in my opinion
That is the most perfect way of explaining things....everything I have been trying to say and failed at miserably. Well done :-) clap clap clap
Why thank you good sir! I know I usually tend to get very invested in these discussions and end up writing essays lol
Haha! Well, technically I'm a Miss... but I'll take it ;-)
My apologies Miss ALIENANGIE, I should have realized that only a fellow lady could possess such finesse!:-)
You can't say that, "solely around his feelings". Please remember how he never mentioned his past to Sarita or the rest of his people, I'm sure not to bother them with his grief. And how in season 1 he never burdened you with his pain. Even when Christa tried to comfort him, he goes and say "Lee's lost his family too", completely disregarding his own situation for the sake of EVERYONE.
Can you blame him for being mad after his sudden, unexpected girlfriend's death? He's not only mad at Clem, he's mad at the world, at himself. He got something, it was because of Sarita that he's alive and he got his second chance only to horribly die in front of him...give him a break. He got out of that situation anyways and decided to help everyone once again, despite his great loss. All he needed was some time for himself, he got it, he put himself together and became helpful once again, how is that nobody pays attention to that?.
edit
Well the obvious answer would of course be Carver.
But the harm I'm talking about is obviously more the harm he does to his group due to his lack of reflection.
And in that regard Carver is relevant. Kenny is wasting time, due to his own selfish desire, causing the herd escape plan to at least become more dangerous than it needed to be.
Since Kenny is going to do whatever Kenny wants to do in any given situation, then you have the choice of either going with it (I. E. letting Mr. 'I don't really think my plans through' lead) or if you (and the rest of the group) think of another option or at least want to talk it over, you have to deal with Kenny doing whatever he was going to do anyway - disregarding his group - and giving you shit about his disregard of the group.
He's harmful because he lacks restraint. And if in your playthrough he hasn't already either left people to die (Ben & Lee spring to mind from my playthrough) or caused people to fall into unnecessary danger and possible death (Sarita & Carlos - and thus by extension [though this isn't fair I admit] Sarah) then I don't know how you're playing it.
Im sorry but I did not have the same experience you do, therefore I dont feel the same way. My experiences with Kenny have been anger and betrayal so I dont feel compelled to justify his every action. Him doing one or two selfless things for a change doesn't erase everything else. IMO, refusing to help my Lee look for Clementine when Lee was dying and Clem was taken by a man who could have done god knows what to her, is unforgivable. So I understand he's hurting, but a great man? Again, not in my estimation.
My feelings wrapped up all in one picture.
All of it was accidental!
Nick wasn't thinking straight after the death of his uncle, but he thought Matthew was a threat to his friends. That's the reason he shot Matthew. He was trying to protect them!
Luke didn't bring Carver to the cabin, they were trying to stay away from Carver but he found them. Walter only got shot because Kenny shot one of Carvers men so if you want to blame something for that then it would be Kenny for shooting first. No one could prevent Sarita from getting bit. Everyone knew the plan. They had to stay calm and walk slow in walker guts. Sadly Sarita didn't make it.
i agree with your post for the most part. However, I don't think you can blame Luke for getting caught. He'd followed Carvers van ON FOOT for 5 days to get his friends out. He was doing his best to learn the pattern schedule for the best chance of them getting out. He couldn't afford to sleep incase he got caught. He was naturally exhausted and hungry and that's when he made the mistake of trying to steal some food. Like I said he was exhausted and hungry, put yourself in his shoes and on seeing all that food, tell me you wouldn't try and get some to help keep your energy levels up?