Her story's really only just begun. I want to see her given even more depth in the third season... Will she play into Crawford's mentality or remain idealistic? That'd be for the player to say. How would she be affected by the deaths of her entire current group? This all needs to be explored.
ok, maybe I overstated my point a bit. they are all great voice actors! none of them sound bad, I just meant that in some situations, sometimes the voices of the characters seem off to me, their inflections for certain conversations or high stress arguments, they just seem off a bit sometimes. in my opinion, Carver's inflection and conversations he had in every scene he was in was flawless. I just wish that when they record, everyone could be together and speaking in the same kind of levels as each other. I understand the recording process though and I know that is impossible to do, so, it is what it is... they are all great voice actors though! I wasn't trying to insult them. I love this game, and if I thought it was that bad I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do...
I agree, i think the only voice, i remember people had a issue with was Reggie. I loved the guy who did Ben's voice. He was like in his 20s doing a voice for a 16+17 year old kid.
That initial shot of Clem made my heart sink, it was extremely effective. Right from that moment I knew that she'd never be the same hopeful girl again.
It's telling that the first time we see Clem as an 11-year-old is with a thousand-yard stare. That sets the precedent for the broken, exhau… morested person she is.
Whether she can regain or even retain her hope is a question that is yet to be answered.
I think the biggest mistake Telltale did was that huge ass 16 month timeskip. There was soooooo much potential character development to build over that time to make Clementine be the best character that we could have ever seen in the Walking Dead.
Instead, I found that she has already seen too much shit and nothing more will faze her. There will be no character development in her from now on, and it will have its toll on how people view season 3.
But other than that, I agree that I still love season 2, but I find Wolf Among Us to be a lot better.
I agree completely. She looked like someone who's weary, physically and emotionally. That's hows I tried to play her character and it's been great so far.
It's telling that the first time we see Clem as an 11-year-old is with a thousand-yard stare. That sets the precedent for the broken, exhau… morested person she is.
Whether she can regain or even retain her hope is a question that is yet to be answered.
Chuck says her age doesn't matter. Mike doesn't obey Clem, he realises it's good advice to help Kenny and or realises that little girl wants him to help her friend. Jane again had a little sis and thus is swayed by Clem and the fact that she's a kid.
All right, thanks for clarifying that. Im sure all the actors work extremely hard and are proud of the job they do and I just didnt want them to be insulted.
ok, maybe I overstated my point a bit. they are all great voice actors! none of them sound bad, I just meant that in some situations, someti… moremes the voices of the characters seem off to me, their inflections for certain conversations or high stress arguments, they just seem off a bit sometimes. in my opinion, Carver's inflection and conversations he had in every scene he was in was flawless. I just wish that when they record, everyone could be together and speaking in the same kind of levels as each other. I understand the recording process though and I know that is impossible to do, so, it is what it is... they are all great voice actors though! I wasn't trying to insult them. I love this game, and if I thought it was that bad I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do...
She's still a child no matter how old she acts. There is still plenty of room for development as she transitions into being a woman. Its hard enough going through that stage today, much less what a child would have to go through in those extreme circumstances. Personally, I think the time jump was a good move. I dont think she would have changed that much in just a few months time.
I think the biggest mistake Telltale did was that huge ass 16 month timeskip. There was soooooo much potential character development to buil… mored over that time to make Clementine be the best character that we could have ever seen in the Walking Dead.
Instead, I found that she has already seen too much shit and nothing more will faze her. There will be no character development in her from now on, and it will have its toll on how people view season 3.
But other than that, I agree that I still love season 2, but I find Wolf Among Us to be a lot better.
I'll bring something different to the table. Regarding how Clem's character in season 2 seems monotonous and it doesn't seem there will be more development for her, let me direct you to this video. It's a bit long but it makes excellent points about main characters in franchises in general (I highly recommend it.) Let me sum up their points if you don't watch it.
Protagonists from most successful series tend to start off as generally bland and uninteresting, normal people. Rick Grimes, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Neo from the Matrix, etc. This is done purposefully so that the audience can attach to them and can see themselves in these characters. The wish fulfillment of the story is that this normal person and thus by extension you, yes you! are really the only savior of the universe, and are the only one that can save the world.
With Clementine, we get to attach to her in a totally different way than movies; we can actually play as her, and make her like ourselves if we wish to! What makes Clem even more interesting imo is that she didn't start out this monotonous-sounding and blank like she has been somewhat in season 2. She used to be a normal curious, sweet little girl, but she's developed into one that is now jaded, and just trying to get by. Making her jaded and supposedly emotionless thus accomplished two things at once--helping develop Clem's character, and also allowing players to identify with this girl more, even if she isn't as "normal" as she once was. (I don't think many players would be able to identify playing as well with an innocent little 8-year-old girl as they do with the current Clem.) So, I see where you're coming from, but this I think is the reasoning behind why she's supposedly so "boring." I'd love to hear what you think.
I disagree, Bokor. Clementine has experienced a lot bad things, but it's made her more stronger, wiser, and calmer about hardship than the casual person. She has none of the diagnoses you say except for depression and trauma. But then again, everyone in the apocalypse would have that.
She's a traumatized, shell-shocked, depressed girl who suppresses her emotions, explicitly looks down upon "childish' behavior, and carries … morea lot of self-loathing and anger.
So she's a miserable kid. That, unfortunately, is what happens when a child goes through the amount of trauma that she does.
Making her jaded and supposedly emotionless thus accomplished two things at once.
There is a way to express her disconnect, look at how they did it with Lee. Lee loses Kenny, and takes five ten seconds to collect his thoughts, then expresses his emotions. Its not like that with Clementine, the most we get is sad music, with a sad emotionless clementine looking sad. It worked for the first two episodes, but now people are catching on.
I'll bring something different to the table. Regarding how Clem's character in season 2 seems monotonous and it doesn't seem there will be m… moreore development for her, let me direct you to this video. It's a bit long but it makes excellent points about main characters in franchises in general (I highly recommend it.) Let me sum up their points if you don't watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrbKuOaVF3k
Protagonists from most successful series tend to start off as generally bland and uninteresting, normal people. Rick Grimes, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Neo from the Matrix, etc. This is done purposefully so that the audience can attach to them and can see themselves in these characters. The wish fulfillment of the story is that this normal person and thus by extension you, yes you! are really the only savior of the universe, and are the only one that can save the world.
With Clementine, we get to attach to her in a totally diffe… [view original content]
Yeah, but Lee was a grown man who'd already gone through the torture of losing his wife's love and surely other hardships. But I think he knew how to cope in different ways. Clem is a kid on the other hand, and I don't think she even knows how to grieve or to express herself like Lee was able to in that scene you mentioned. In the very beginning of season 2 when she's still 9 and Omid's still alive, she still didn't look too happy, even if Christa and Omid were quite jovial. We don't know for sure, but I don't think she had a chance to properly grieve Lee's death, or maybe anyone's death. Right now she might not even know that it's healthy to express her sadness in some way, beyond "looking sad." It looks like Christa generally never expresses emotions anymore, so Clem could've learned from her.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it working the first two episodes and not now. What changed?
Making her jaded and supposedly emotionless thus accomplished two things at once.
There is a way to express her disconnect, look at … morehow they did it with Lee. Lee loses Kenny, and takes five ten seconds to collect his thoughts, then expresses his emotions. Its not like that with Clementine, the most we get is sad music, with a sad emotionless clementine looking sad. It worked for the first two episodes, but now people are catching on.
Clementine is the single greatest video game character ever.
And her voice? You can't be seriously despondent of an ENTIRE character because of her voice. That's like saying Lee "sucks" because of his build or some dumb shit like that.
was a grown man who'd already gone through the torture of losing his wife's love and surely other hardships. But I think he knew how to cope in different ways. Clem is a kid on the other hand, and I don't think she even knows how to grieve or to express herself like Lee was able to in that scene you mentioned
I totally agree with you here, but it is also a story which is meant to entertain, they handled Lee's Protagonist Emotions better in Season 1, than they are in Season 2 in my wrong opinion.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it working the first two episodes and not now. What changed?
Clementine expressed her emotions more in the first two episodes, than in episode 3 or 4.
Yeah, but Lee was a grown man who'd already gone through the torture of losing his wife's love and surely other hardships. But I think he kn… moreew how to cope in different ways. Clem is a kid on the other hand, and I don't think she even knows how to grieve or to express herself like Lee was able to in that scene you mentioned. In the very beginning of season 2 when she's still 9 and Omid's still alive, she still didn't look too happy, even if Christa and Omid were quite jovial. We don't know for sure, but I don't think she had a chance to properly grieve Lee's death, or maybe anyone's death. Right now she might not even know that it's healthy to express her sadness in some way, beyond "looking sad." It looks like Christa generally never expresses emotions anymore, so Clem could've learned from her.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it working the first two episodes and not now. What changed?
Her voice matches her animations and personality, really. If you stand idle you'll notice that she always has this saddened facial expression and mannerism.
Ok. I guess the story may not have been as entertaining. But I personally think Clem was acting true to her character in that she was being stoic. And "wrong opinion"? Lol there's no such thing.
Still fuzzy on what you mean by her expressing herself more in 1 and 2, but I'd like to be know. Could you give me an example, if you'd be so kind?
was a grown man who'd already gone through the torture of losing his wife's love and surely other hardships. But I think he knew how to cope… more in different ways. Clem is a kid on the other hand, and I don't think she even knows how to grieve or to express herself like Lee was able to in that scene you mentioned
I totally agree with you here, but it is also a story which is meant to entertain, they handled Lee's Protagonist Emotions better in Season 1, than they are in Season 2 in my wrong opinion.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it working the first two episodes and not now. What changed?
Clementine expressed her emotions more in the first two episodes, than in episode 3 or 4.
Of all the characters in Season 2 I think Clementine is the most interesting. A hardened 11 year old girl taking on the ZA while being a sweetie pie and a total bad ass at the same time? Yeah I can't think of anything more interesting than that.
Not sure about the voice, but otherwise I rather agree with you OP.
I think Telltale went the easy way taking Clementine as protagonist to please the fans, but it turns out having an 11 year old as sole protagonist during the whole season is frustrating and leads to weird, unrealistic feeling situations (since the protagonist has to shine and make major decisions for the group, and the group needs to depend on you... Sometimes it just doesn't work great when you're a kid and it seems you're the only one who can save the day... It makes adults around you look incompetent and weak and you lose respect for them). Some parts work really well, but the game would have been so much better with switching protagonists from times to times.
I still liked TWD2 this far because it's TWD, so still enjoyed myself and still looking forward to episode 5 and a third season, but... I'm not a fan of Clementine as unique protagonist.
I really, really hope Telltale won't go the easy way for season 3.
I'd rather play as a new adult character, or if Clementine needs to be a protagonist, let her be ONE of two protagonists.
Awesome adventure games (Gabriel Knight II and III, Day of the Tentacle) did it before and it can work just great.
Please don't put down Melissa Hutchison's great voice acting on Clementine.
Clementine's transition was a success. Being more able and mature would mean that Clementine is not shy or innocent anymore. This is what growing up in a zombie apocalypse is like for a child.
After what the group has gone through with Clem, she's earned enough respect that they'll listen to her since she is in fact wise and not just some 11 year old.
Comments
Well, she miserable now. Compare her Season 1 and 2 voice, she sounds a lot more happy back then and don't forget the aging part too.
Her story's really only just begun. I want to see her given even more depth in the third season... Will she play into Crawford's mentality or remain idealistic? That'd be for the player to say. How would she be affected by the deaths of her entire current group? This all needs to be explored.
ok, maybe I overstated my point a bit. they are all great voice actors! none of them sound bad, I just meant that in some situations, sometimes the voices of the characters seem off to me, their inflections for certain conversations or high stress arguments, they just seem off a bit sometimes. in my opinion, Carver's inflection and conversations he had in every scene he was in was flawless. I just wish that when they record, everyone could be together and speaking in the same kind of levels as each other. I understand the recording process though and I know that is impossible to do, so, it is what it is... they are all great voice actors though! I wasn't trying to insult them. I love this game, and if I thought it was that bad I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do...
lol thats funny
That initial shot of Clem made my heart sink, it was extremely effective. Right from that moment I knew that she'd never be the same hopeful girl again.
I think the biggest mistake Telltale did was that huge ass 16 month timeskip. There was soooooo much potential character development to build over that time to make Clementine be the best character that we could have ever seen in the Walking Dead.
Instead, I found that she has already seen too much shit and nothing more will faze her. There will be no character development in her from now on, and it will have its toll on how people view season 3.
But other than that, I agree that I still love season 2, but I find Wolf Among Us to be a lot better.
WHAT?! Melissa Hutchison is awesome!
I agree completely. She looked like someone who's weary, physically and emotionally. That's hows I tried to play her character and it's been great so far.
Chuck says her age doesn't matter. Mike doesn't obey Clem, he realises it's good advice to help Kenny and or realises that little girl wants him to help her friend. Jane again had a little sis and thus is swayed by Clem and the fact that she's a kid.
SHe can't remain shy in that world, She needs to be stronger, that's why
Blasphemy!
All right, thanks for clarifying that.
Im sure all the actors work extremely hard and are proud of the job they do and I just didnt want them to be insulted.
She's still a child no matter how old she acts. There is still plenty of room for development as she transitions into being a woman. Its hard enough going through that stage today, much less what a child would have to go through in those extreme circumstances. Personally, I think the time jump was a good move. I dont think she would have changed that much in just a few months time.
Yeah, losing your parents and a best friend (Lee) does that to a little girl.
I'll bring something different to the table. Regarding how Clem's character in season 2 seems monotonous and it doesn't seem there will be more development for her, let me direct you to this video. It's a bit long but it makes excellent points about main characters in franchises in general (I highly recommend it.) Let me sum up their points if you don't watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrbKuOaVF3k
Protagonists from most successful series tend to start off as generally bland and uninteresting, normal people. Rick Grimes, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Neo from the Matrix, etc. This is done purposefully so that the audience can attach to them and can see themselves in these characters. The wish fulfillment of the story is that this normal person and thus by extension you, yes you! are really the only savior of the universe, and are the only one that can save the world.
With Clementine, we get to attach to her in a totally different way than movies; we can actually play as her, and make her like ourselves if we wish to! What makes Clem even more interesting imo is that she didn't start out this monotonous-sounding and blank like she has been somewhat in season 2. She used to be a normal curious, sweet little girl, but she's developed into one that is now jaded, and just trying to get by. Making her jaded and supposedly emotionless thus accomplished two things at once--helping develop Clem's character, and also allowing players to identify with this girl more, even if she isn't as "normal" as she once was. (I don't think many players would be able to identify playing as well with an innocent little 8-year-old girl as they do with the current Clem.) So, I see where you're coming from, but this I think is the reasoning behind why she's supposedly so "boring." I'd love to hear what you think.
I disagree.
I disagree, Bokor. Clementine has experienced a lot bad things, but it's made her more stronger, wiser, and calmer about hardship than the casual person. She has none of the diagnoses you say except for depression and trauma. But then again, everyone in the apocalypse would have that.
There is a way to express her disconnect, look at how they did it with Lee. Lee loses Kenny, and takes five ten seconds to collect his thoughts, then expresses his emotions. Its not like that with Clementine, the most we get is sad music, with a sad emotionless clementine looking sad. It worked for the first two episodes, but now people are catching on.
This thread is why I miss the down vote feature.
Yeah, but Lee was a grown man who'd already gone through the torture of losing his wife's love and surely other hardships. But I think he knew how to cope in different ways. Clem is a kid on the other hand, and I don't think she even knows how to grieve or to express herself like Lee was able to in that scene you mentioned. In the very beginning of season 2 when she's still 9 and Omid's still alive, she still didn't look too happy, even if Christa and Omid were quite jovial. We don't know for sure, but I don't think she had a chance to properly grieve Lee's death, or maybe anyone's death. Right now she might not even know that it's healthy to express her sadness in some way, beyond "looking sad." It looks like Christa generally never expresses emotions anymore, so Clem could've learned from her.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it working the first two episodes and not now. What changed?
Clementine is the single greatest video game character ever.
And her voice? You can't be seriously despondent of an ENTIRE character because of her voice. That's like saying Lee "sucks" because of his build or some dumb shit like that.
I disagree.
I totally agree with you here, but it is also a story which is meant to entertain, they handled Lee's Protagonist Emotions better in Season 1, than they are in Season 2 in my wrong opinion.
Clementine expressed her emotions more in the first two episodes, than in episode 3 or 4.
Clementine was more fun and interesting to play than Lee in my opinion.
Her voice matches her animations and personality, really. If you stand idle you'll notice that she always has this saddened facial expression and mannerism.
She's not a happy character anymore.
Ok. I guess the story may not have been as entertaining. But I personally think Clem was acting true to her character in that she was being stoic. And "wrong opinion"? Lol there's no such thing.
Still fuzzy on what you mean by her expressing herself more in 1 and 2, but I'd like to be know.
Could you give me an example, if you'd be so kind?
I feel that because her voice isn't voiced by an actual 11 year old it doesn't sound to real anyone else notice that?
We are mourning our loss of the thumb down button.
The 5 stages of grief. Stage 1: denial T_T
I had no idea when I played season 1 that Clem was voiced by an adult woman until later so I think her voice sounds very appropriate.
Of all the characters in Season 2 I think Clementine is the most interesting. A hardened 11 year old girl taking on the ZA while being a sweetie pie and a total bad ass at the same time? Yeah I can't think of anything more interesting than that.
Not sure about the voice, but otherwise I rather agree with you OP.
I think Telltale went the easy way taking Clementine as protagonist to please the fans, but it turns out having an 11 year old as sole protagonist during the whole season is frustrating and leads to weird, unrealistic feeling situations (since the protagonist has to shine and make major decisions for the group, and the group needs to depend on you... Sometimes it just doesn't work great when you're a kid and it seems you're the only one who can save the day... It makes adults around you look incompetent and weak and you lose respect for them). Some parts work really well, but the game would have been so much better with switching protagonists from times to times.
I still liked TWD2 this far because it's TWD, so still enjoyed myself and still looking forward to episode 5 and a third season, but... I'm not a fan of Clementine as unique protagonist.
I really, really hope Telltale won't go the easy way for season 3.
I'd rather play as a new adult character, or if Clementine needs to be a protagonist, let her be ONE of two protagonists.
Awesome adventure games (Gabriel Knight II and III, Day of the Tentacle) did it before and it can work just great.
Kind of interesting how this thread was posted right before the end of the season.
Please don't put down Melissa Hutchison's great voice acting on Clementine.
Clementine's transition was a success. Being more able and mature would mean that Clementine is not shy or innocent anymore. This is what growing up in a zombie apocalypse is like for a child.
After what the group has gone through with Clem, she's earned enough respect that they'll listen to her since she is in fact wise and not just some 11 year old.