Agreed. It was the same thing with Lilly in season one (though I personally did hate Lilly as well).
I don't hate Luke at all, but I will say that he has been going a little downhill for me with just about every passing episode. I totally understand why people like him though.
To be honest it''a hard with these things, this not by your own admission Belan has become a Kenny hate thread, and anyone who does try to defend him will no doubt feel the wrath of those who intend to shoot him down. I mean it's not really anything new, we had a very similar case back in Season 1 with the Lilly vs Kenny debates.
There will always be people who dislike Kenny and there will always be people who like him, it will be an ongoing debate until the said character meets their canon demise.
Of course there are going to be people posting their disagreements, I wouldn't expect otherwise. Its true of any thread, not just Kenny related ones. There are going to be people who will never agree with me on this subject. I would just be happy if I can get people to think about the subject in a different way, or see it in a different light. Hopefully some people got something out of this.
To be honest it''a hard with these things, this not by your own admission Belan has become a Kenny hate thread, and anyone who does try to d… moreefend him will no doubt feel the wrath of those who intend to shoot him down. I mean it's not really anything new, we had a very similar case back in Season 1 with the Lilly vs Kenny debates.
There will always be people who dislike Kenny and there will always be people who like him, it will be an ongoing debate until the said character meets their canon demise.
Ok whatever, but what bothers me is your way to describe how reckless it was.
First you were saying "a little reckless", now you said "not completely reckless"? Just admit that it was A LOT reckless, he was putting lives at risk, he even wasn´t sure about who or how many were the enemy. So don´t come with this euphemism bullshit to distort the truth and defend him .
You need to understand the context of the situation. In Kenny's mind, they were potentially screwed if they were taken to some lockup. He di… moredn't want to get into that situation. He would rather take his chances in a fight than be helplessly locked away. That is why the plan was not completely reckless. (As an aside, these are Kenny's actual thoughts on the matter, not just me speculating)
And yes, the plan could have worked if everyone had followed it. Tavia, Bonnie, and Troy were standing literally at the entrance to the back of the truck with their guns lowered. They were not prepared for a group of people to jump them from out of the truck. It is certainly very possible that the group would have overpowered them, taken their weapons, gotten into the truck, and then drove away.
I liked Amid the ruins alot but it made no sense at all for Kenny to blame Clem for Sarita's death, when you didn't decide to cut her arm off. (I guess Telltale was just lazy and thought they didn't need to add a new scene, since about 90% of the players decided to cut her arm off)
And SaltLick my Bro, didn't see you for quite some time. I would happily offer you this Bro speech!
Since this is a Kenny thead, I'd like to hear you guys' reactions to Kenny flipping out on Clem even if she didn't even touch Sarita. I'm a … moreKenny fan, by the way. This is not a question promoting Ken hate or anything. Logically, we can look at this two different ways. Let's get to it.
* Option #1: Do you think it was just Kenny being Kenny? We all know Ken. Most of the time, if not always, he will attempt taking out his frustrations on someone else. He has a lot of flaws. This, however, is why some of us love him.
* Option #2: Bad writing, maybe? I've seen users suggest Telltale pulled a lazy move here. Backing their arguments up with the Arvo situation. Is there any chance Telltale didn't bother changing the outcome a bit? I'm not too sure on this. I wouldn't completely rule it out, though.
So, was this Kenny being Kenny, or lazy writing? I'd like to hear what others think of this. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind.
You choose.
Overall, great post. Discerning, I should say.
Kenny's awesome and I love his character, but c'mon he really is just repeating his story arc from season one. He has taken up a really large amount of screen time compared to many of the cabin members too.
I'm conflicted. While I like Kenny, at the same time, I realize his character is taking up a lot of screen-time and really isn't advancing the plot either...
First you were saying "a little reckless", now you said "not completely reckless"?
And why do these things need to be separate exactly? By saying that it wasn't completely reckless, I am admitting that it was at least a little reckless. The statements are not contradictory at all, they can work hand in hand.
Just admit that it was A LOT reckless
Not going to do that, for reasons explained above.
he was putting lives at risk, he even wasn´t sure about who or how many were the enemy.
sigh
Already addressed this... if you disagree feel free to explain why you feel differently.
So don´t come with this euphemism bullshit to distort the truth and defend him .
I'm not distorting anything, I am simply telling you what was happening in the scene. Maybe you should go jog your memory..
Ok whatever, but what bothers me is your way to describe how reckless it was.
First you were saying "a little reckless", now you said "no… moret completely reckless"? Just admit that it was A LOT reckless, he was putting lives at risk, he even wasn´t sure about who or how many were the enemy. So don´t come with this euphemism bullshit to distort the truth and defend him .
I do think you have some pretty good points.... Well a lot actually. I wonder how this whole "luke and kenny" battle would play put if luke was the one from season 1.
Man if dislikes were still around you'd be downvoted like crazy.
Yeah... now the haters have to try responding for once
Seriousl… morey though, I have looked at these issues as rationally as possible. I don't think I'm saying anything crazy here.
Agreed. It was the same thing with Lilly in season one (though I personally did hate Lilly as well).
I don't hate Luke at all, but I will… more say that he has been going a little downhill for me with just about every passing episode. I totally understand why people like him though.
First off, let me just say that I enjoyed your essay, Belan.
I found it to be very sound and logical.
And I will say, that a lot of the feelings you expressed about Kenny, in particular your defense for him, are the same feelings I have
Second: I'm glad to see you were able to put yourself in Kenny's shoes; and thus understand his grief, and why he has made the decisions he has.
That's called being empathetic, which is a valuable trait to have.
Third: I have to admit that I to am tired of people crucifying Kenny over every little thing.
How would they feel if someone did that to them?
Instead, they should be endeavoring to "treat others the same way they would like to be treated."
Also known as the Golden rule!
Even though Kenny is just a videogame character, the principle still holds true.
Fourth: Kenny has indeed been able to put his feelings aside, though they are natural, to help others.
He was, when everything was going to hell around them, a beacon of hope for the group.
Kenny is still a very valuable member of the group, because he possesses the inner-strength that a leader needs to have, in order to be effective.
While granted Kenny does have his moments, he is still overall a strong person.
He keeps going no matter what!
I do believe Kenny will continue to prove his value in the group.
I have a feeling that he will eventually become their "Moses," if you will.
And unlike the historical Moses, will make it to the promised land.
As long players will continue to treat Kenny with kindness, decency, and understanding, I firmly believe Kenny will recover from his wounded state, and become a better and stronger man than he is now.
Those are my feelings on the matter.
If people want to disagree with, or even resent them, that's their problem.
But I nevertheless, have the right to express my thoughts, just as much as they have the right to express theirs.
And I will continue to do so, but always strive to express myself in a dignified and respectful manner, even when I disagree with others.
I hope others will be willing to do me the same courtesy.
I agree. I didn't cut off her arm either. When Kenny went off on me I was like "WHAT?". Same as Arvo. Is not stealing really gonna be meaningless? They could've at least included "She stole my gun". Just to be clear, at the very least.
I was away for a month or so, pal. I'm back in action. Sup with you?
Option2 obviously!
I liked Amid the ruins alot but it made no sense at all for Kenny to blame Clem for Sarita's death, when you didn't de… morecide to cut her arm off. (I guess Telltale was just lazy and thought they didn't need to add a new scene, since about 90% of the players decided to cut her arm off)
And SaltLick my Bro, didn't see you for quite some time. I would happily offer you this Bro speech!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjvxlQ4Y0k
I like Kenny. Sure, he has done stuff that has been questionable and wrong, but, overall the guy is a good soul. I feel it was a good idea bringing him back and seeing him develop more this season. We have seen a different side to him. The guy is human and flawed, and that makes for an interesting character.
Option2 obviously!
I liked Amid the ruins alot but it made no sense at all for Kenny to blame Clem for Sarita's death, when you didn't de… morecide to cut her arm off. (I guess Telltale was just lazy and thought they didn't need to add a new scene, since about 90% of the players decided to cut her arm off)
And SaltLick my Bro, didn't see you for quite some time. I would happily offer you this Bro speech!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjvxlQ4Y0k
The point of the thread wasn't to praise his name or prop him up on some pedestal. I simply saw a lot of generally unchallenged arguments about Kenny floating around and decided to address them. Of course there are a lot of people that back Kenny up, but I didn't feel like these particular issues were being touched on like they needed to be.
Well to be honest as of late I have seen Kenny hate threads. I mean there was a "Kenny: An enemy is my books " thread that drew a considerable amount of attentions, as well as various other Luke vs Kenny threads where people are complaining about Kenny. It seems Belan wrote this to counter those threads that occurred recently because everyone is seeming to complain about Kenny.
Haha, 'unchallenged'?! Have you BEEN on the forums in the last few months? The countless Luke vs Kenny threads?
These specific issues were being touched on and your arguments were already accepted by the majority. They were constantly spouted as reasons why he's our king and we are but a humble servant in his presence.
The point of the thread wasn't to praise his name or prop him up on some pedestal. I simply saw a lot of generally unchallenged arguments ab… moreout Kenny floating around and decided to address them. Of course there are a lot of people that back Kenny up, but I didn't feel like these particular issues were being touched on like they needed to be.
Haha, 'unchallenged'?! Have you BEEN on the forums in the last few months? The countless Luke vs Kenny threads?
These specific issues wer… moree being touched on and your arguments were already accepted by the majority. They were constantly spouted as reasons why he's our king and we are but a humble servant in his presence.
Alright, but if Kenny "no longer cares" why is there a dialogue option where he can apologize to Clementine, and call her "darlin" again? To be fair, it depends on your game, but at least in mine Kenny did seem to care, though I'm not sure if he does in the same way people are hoping (they hope he'd see her "like a daughter," but in reality he treats her like an adult, not a child, as evidenced by his dialogue.)
I'm not a huge Kenny fan (nor am I a huge Luke fan, even - fed up with both, tbh) but I think saying Kenny doesn't even care a little bit about Clementine is untrue.
What about the fact Kenny no longer cares, even the slightest, for Clementine anymore?
You see, Kenny has PTSD. Which means he connects o… morenly with people or things that remind him of people and things he cared about. Once Sarita died, Kenny took it upon himself to connect the events with Katjaa and Duck's death and decided to perpetuate Clementine as some kind of evil-doer who wronged him. Which is shitty, no matter how you cut it.
I believe the only people who can still find excuses for Kenny are either in some kind of denial or are much more forgiving than I am. But the way he "handled" Carver was... unsettling. And after episode four it's obvious that the man is a danger to the people around him. No longer a "guardian," but a "threat" to Clementine's survival.
Well to be honest as of late I have seen Kenny hate threads. I mean there was a "Kenny: An enemy is my books " thread that drew a considerab… morele amount of attentions, as well as various other Luke vs Kenny threads where people are complaining about Kenny. It seems Belan wrote this to counter those threads that occurred recently because everyone is seeming to complain about Kenny.
Well to be honest as of late I have seen Kenny hate threads. I mean there was a "Kenny: An enemy is my books " thread that drew a considerab… morele amount of attentions, as well as various other Luke vs Kenny threads where people are complaining about Kenny. It seems Belan wrote this to counter those threads that occurred recently because everyone is seeming to complain about Kenny.
Yeah, I've decided what you did was fair enough, so I've reposted the big luke desense post from a while back, as people don't try to defend him often.
Ehhh.... I think you're doing a lot of generalizing.
spouted as reasons why he's our king and we are but a humble servant in his presence.
I mean... if you think that's what I'm trying to do here I'm not sure that you're understanding.
Well to be honest as of late I have seen Kenny hate threads. I mean there was a "Kenny: An enemy is my books " thread that drew a considerab… morele amount of attentions, as well as various other Luke vs Kenny threads where people are complaining about Kenny. It seems Belan wrote this to counter those threads that occurred recently because everyone is seeming to complain about Kenny.
It's not exactly a competition of misery, although Clementine would clearly have everyone else beat in that category.
I find it interesting that Kenny only apologizes if you stay quiet and take his abuse. Challenging him makes him say "I don't need to hear this shit!" Placating him by saying you need him also gets his sympathy.
I didn´t mean that those statements are condradictory, i meant that you´re trying to say that he wasn´t SO reckless when he OBVIOUSLY WAS, every one with some commom sense would agree, but you keep your pitiful denial to defend Kenny. My concern here was the gradation: "little" became "not completely", which certainly means more than "little", even in a vague way, but you just don´t want to reach and say the "a lot" level of recklessness because of your stupid denial.
He couldn´t be sure if they would be totally helpless when locked up, maybe they would even have better chances there than going all rambo when the truck opens, so why try this plan, which was pretty risky, when a better opportunity could show up? That´s because he is impatient and want to try getting out as soon as possible, regardless of the high risks. In other words, he is RECKLESS.
And yes you are distorting the truth with your EUPHEMISM( "not completely reckless", another way to tell that Kenny is 99% reckless ), since the truth is about Kenny being reckless and also that´s the part of your thread we are discussing about. He was being pretty reckless and at least 90% of people would agree, so whoever trusted him with this plan was most likely just kissing his ass.
First you were saying "a little reckless", now you said "not completely reckless"?
And why do these things need to be separate exact… morely? By saying that it wasn't completely reckless, I am admitting that it was at least a little reckless. The statements are not contradictory at all, they can work hand in hand.
Just admit that it was A LOT reckless
Not going to do that, for reasons explained above.
he was putting lives at risk, he even wasn´t sure about who or how many were the enemy.
sigh
Already addressed this... if you disagree feel free to explain why you feel differently.
So don´t come with this euphemism bullshit to distort the truth and defend him .
I'm not distorting anything, I am simply telling you what was happening in the scene. Maybe you should go jog your memory..
I didn´t mean that those statements are condradictory, i meant that you´re trying to say that he wasn´t SO reckless when he OBVIOUSLY WAS.
My god. I didn't say that you said that the statements were contradictory, I was simply saying that the statements can go hand in hand because they do not contradict each other. Throwing a hissy fit over using both words is ridiculous.
My concern here was the gradation: "little" became "not completely"
Lets try and make this easier for you. What is another phrase or word for "not completely". How about "incomplete"? Let's take a look at the definition. We'll keep it very basic.
Incomplete: "Not complete". "Lacking a part"
Obviously when I say Kenny was a little reckless, that means he was not completely reckless... considering "a little" in this form obviously means to a small extent or lesser degree. So while Kenny's actions were reckless to a small (or little) extent, they were not reckless to the complete extent. If I wanted to say he was straight up reckless I would just say that. Saying a "little reckless" implies a split of some kind. There was risk to what he was doing, but there was also merit. So when I say he was being a little reckless, it is for all extents and purposes the same thing as saying he wasn't being completely reckless. Arguing otherwise is just stupid.
every one with some commom sense would agree, but you keep your pitiful denial to defend Kenny. My concern here was the gradation: "little" became "not completely", which certainly means more than "little", even in a vague way, but you just don´t want to reach and say the "a lot" level of recklessness because of your stupid denial
No, I don't want to say he was very reckless because I don't feel that he was based on the observations I have made. It has nothing to do with denial.
He couldn´t be sure if they would be totally helpless when locked up
So? You think that means he should have taken his chances? That's very illogical.
maybe they would even have better chances there than going all rambo when the truck opens
"Maybe" is key here. He had no way of knowing either way when inside the truck. Think about it.
so why try this plan, which was pretty risky, when a better opportunity could show up?
Because the truck was potentially the only opportunity for escape that they had, which is why Kenny was so concerned about getting locked up in the first place.
That´s because he is impatient and want to try getting out as soon as possible, regardless of the high risks. In other words, he is RECKLESS.
Not based on anything. If you would have listened to his dialogue at all in that scene you would understand that he was simply very afraid of getting locked away. He thought that was basically game over in his book. Obviously it didn't end up working out like that, but his concerns were 100% valid. At the time, he decided he would rather take his chances in a fight rather than get locked away and be potentially totally defenseless and at the mercy of Carver.
"not completely reckless", another way to tell that Kenny is 99% reckless
No, you can't tell that at all based on that sentence. It doesn't necessarily imply any given percentage. I shouldn't even have to explain this..
I didn´t mean that those statements are condradictory, i meant that you´re trying to say that he wasn´t SO reckless when he OBVIOUSLY WAS, e… morevery one with some commom sense would agree, but you keep your pitiful denial to defend Kenny. My concern here was the gradation: "little" became "not completely", which certainly means more than "little", even in a vague way, but you just don´t want to reach and say the "a lot" level of recklessness because of your stupid denial.
He couldn´t be sure if they would be totally helpless when locked up, maybe they would even have better chances there than going all rambo when the truck opens, so why try this plan, which was pretty risky, when a better opportunity could show up? That´s because he is impatient and want to try getting out as soon as possible, regardless of the high risks. In other words, he is RECKLESS.
And yes you are distorting the truth with your EUPHEMISM( "not completely reckless", an… [view original content]
I agree with that. Kenny's attitude toward Clem's survival is notable because the other members of the group all have at least some shred of "Clem's a child, we should at least try to protect her." But Kenny has indeed left that line of reasoning completely behind.
Alright, but if Kenny "no longer cares" why is there a dialogue option where he can apologize to Clementine, and call her "darlin" again? To… more be fair, it depends on your game, but at least in mine Kenny did seem to care, though I'm not sure if he does in the same way people are hoping (they hope he'd see her "like a daughter," but in reality he treats her like an adult, not a child, as evidenced by his dialogue.)
I'm not a huge Kenny fan (nor am I a huge Luke fan, even - fed up with both, tbh) but I think saying Kenny doesn't even care a little bit about Clementine is untrue.
First off, let me just say that I enjoyed your essay, Belan.
I found it to be very sound and logical.
And I will say, that a lot of the fe… moreelings you expressed about Kenny, in particular your defense for him, are the same feelings I have
Second: I'm glad to see you were able to put yourself in Kenny's shoes; and thus understand his grief, and why he has made the decisions he has.
That's called being empathetic, which is a valuable trait to have.
Third: I have to admit that I to am tired of people crucifying Kenny over every little thing.
How would they feel if someone did that to them?
Instead, they should be endeavoring to "treat others the same way they would like to be treated."
Also known as the Golden rule!
Even though Kenny is just a videogame character, the principle still holds true.
Fourth: Kenny has indeed been able to put his feelings aside, though they are natural, to help others.
He was, when everything was going … [view original content]
I'm hoping Kenny loyalists gets a treat out of the episode, even if he does die. And that doesn't have to be a "heroic sacrifice" (as people on this forum seem to dislike) but simply an apology or something similar towards Clementine.
Nostalgia is a big part of why I keep agreeing with him at this point, even if I do understand his situation.
Poor Kenny.
He's lost so much...
He's lost his wife, his son, his best friend and now his girlfriend. Not to mention he's lost his eye.
It makes sense for him to be angry or sad.
Regardless, I'm sticking with him but not Luke.
Poor Lee.
He lost so much...
He lost his family, the girl he loved (Carley/Lilly), his arm and his life. He was blamed by everyone for everything he did, even when that was the right choice. Lots of people betrayed him. But he was still strong enough to take care of Clementine without going crazy/having random sex. Poor Lee, he deserved better.
Poor Luke.
He's lost so much...
He's lost his family, his best friend, his adoptive family, and then his potential girlfriend. Not to mention he's broken his ribs.
it makes sense for him to be angry/sad.
I'm sick of both him and Kenny.
Poor Lee.
He lost so much...
He lost his family, the girl he loved (Carley/Lilly), his arm and his life. He was blamed by everyone for eve… morerything he did, even when that was the right choice. Lots of people betrayed him. But he was still strong enough to take care of Clementine without going crazy/having random sex. Poor Lee, he deserved better.
Comments
I still like both Kenny and Luke.
Don't get why people feel like they must hate the other in order to be fan of one, like they're mutually exclusive.
Agreed. It was the same thing with Lilly in season one (though I personally did hate Lilly as well).
I don't hate Luke at all, but I will say that he has been going a little downhill for me with just about every passing episode. I totally understand why people like him though.
To be honest it''a hard with these things, this not by your own admission Belan has become a Kenny hate thread, and anyone who does try to defend him will no doubt feel the wrath of those who intend to shoot him down. I mean it's not really anything new, we had a very similar case back in Season 1 with the Lilly vs Kenny debates.
There will always be people who dislike Kenny and there will always be people who like him, it will be an ongoing debate until the said character meets their canon demise.
Finally, someone who actually understands Kenny.
Of course there are going to be people posting their disagreements, I wouldn't expect otherwise. Its true of any thread, not just Kenny related ones. There are going to be people who will never agree with me on this subject. I would just be happy if I can get people to think about the subject in a different way, or see it in a different light. Hopefully some people got something out of this.
Ok whatever, but what bothers me is your way to describe how reckless it was.
First you were saying "a little reckless", now you said "not completely reckless"? Just admit that it was A LOT reckless, he was putting lives at risk, he even wasn´t sure about who or how many were the enemy. So don´t come with this euphemism bullshit to distort the truth and defend him .
Kenny's return was the best scene in season two thus far, IMO.
No, no he is not. Kenny's mustache is much better then Hitler and he doesn't gas people.
Option2 obviously!
I liked Amid the ruins alot but it made no sense at all for Kenny to blame Clem for Sarita's death, when you didn't decide to cut her arm off. (I guess Telltale was just lazy and thought they didn't need to add a new scene, since about 90% of the players decided to cut her arm off)
And SaltLick my Bro, didn't see you for quite some time. I would happily offer you this Bro speech!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjvxlQ4Y0k
Kenny's awesome and I love his character, but c'mon he really is just repeating his story arc from season one. He has taken up a really large amount of screen time compared to many of the cabin members too.
I'm conflicted. While I like Kenny, at the same time, I realize his character is taking up a lot of screen-time and really isn't advancing the plot either...
And why do these things need to be separate exactly? By saying that it wasn't completely reckless, I am admitting that it was at least a little reckless. The statements are not contradictory at all, they can work hand in hand.
Not going to do that, for reasons explained above.
sigh
Already addressed this... if you disagree feel free to explain why you feel differently.
I'm not distorting anything, I am simply telling you what was happening in the scene. Maybe you should go jog your memory..
I do think you have some pretty good points.... Well a lot actually. I wonder how this whole "luke and kenny" battle would play put if luke was the one from season 1.
I actually like that attitude, not hating one in order to like one better. The forums would certainly be more peaceful then.
First off, let me just say that I enjoyed your essay, Belan.
I found it to be very sound and logical.
And I will say, that a lot of the feelings you expressed about Kenny, in particular your defense for him, are the same feelings I have
Second: I'm glad to see you were able to put yourself in Kenny's shoes; and thus understand his grief, and why he has made the decisions he has.
That's called being empathetic, which is a valuable trait to have.
Third: I have to admit that I to am tired of people crucifying Kenny over every little thing.
How would they feel if someone did that to them?
Instead, they should be endeavoring to "treat others the same way they would like to be treated."
Also known as the Golden rule!
Even though Kenny is just a videogame character, the principle still holds true.
Fourth: Kenny has indeed been able to put his feelings aside, though they are natural, to help others.
He was, when everything was going to hell around them, a beacon of hope for the group.
Kenny is still a very valuable member of the group, because he possesses the inner-strength that a leader needs to have, in order to be effective.
While granted Kenny does have his moments, he is still overall a strong person.
He keeps going no matter what!
I do believe Kenny will continue to prove his value in the group.
I have a feeling that he will eventually become their "Moses," if you will.
And unlike the historical Moses, will make it to the promised land.
As long players will continue to treat Kenny with kindness, decency, and understanding, I firmly believe Kenny will recover from his wounded state, and become a better and stronger man than he is now.
Those are my feelings on the matter.
If people want to disagree with, or even resent them, that's their problem.
But I nevertheless, have the right to express my thoughts, just as much as they have the right to express theirs.
And I will continue to do so, but always strive to express myself in a dignified and respectful manner, even when I disagree with others.
I hope others will be willing to do me the same courtesy.
I agree. I didn't cut off her arm either. When Kenny went off on me I was like "WHAT?". Same as Arvo. Is not stealing really gonna be meaningless? They could've at least included "She stole my gun". Just to be clear, at the very least.
I was away for a month or so, pal. I'm back in action. Sup with you?
Bro Hugs The Walking Mustache
He saltlicks them.
I like Kenny. Sure, he has done stuff that has been questionable and wrong, but, overall the guy is a good soul. I feel it was a good idea bringing him back and seeing him develop more this season. We have seen a different side to him. The guy is human and flawed, and that makes for an interesting character.
I've always liked that.
And that's the kind of spirit friends should have, when the other is in trouble and is in need of assistance.
EDIT: I've decided this was wrong, so am removing it.
The point of the thread wasn't to praise his name or prop him up on some pedestal. I simply saw a lot of generally unchallenged arguments about Kenny floating around and decided to address them. Of course there are a lot of people that back Kenny up, but I didn't feel like these particular issues were being touched on like they needed to be.
Well to be honest as of late I have seen Kenny hate threads. I mean there was a "Kenny: An enemy is my books " thread that drew a considerable amount of attentions, as well as various other Luke vs Kenny threads where people are complaining about Kenny. It seems Belan wrote this to counter those threads that occurred recently because everyone is seeming to complain about Kenny.
Haha, 'unchallenged'?! Have you BEEN on the forums in the last few months? The countless Luke vs Kenny threads?
These specific issues were being touched on and your arguments were already accepted by the majority. They were constantly spouted as reasons why he's our king and we are but a humble servant in his presence.
Ehhh.... I think you're doing a lot of generalizing.
I mean... if you think that's what I'm trying to do here I'm not sure that you're understanding.
Alright, but if Kenny "no longer cares" why is there a dialogue option where he can apologize to Clementine, and call her "darlin" again? To be fair, it depends on your game, but at least in mine Kenny did seem to care, though I'm not sure if he does in the same way people are hoping (they hope he'd see her "like a daughter," but in reality he treats her like an adult, not a child, as evidenced by his dialogue.)
I'm not a huge Kenny fan (nor am I a huge Luke fan, even - fed up with both, tbh) but I think saying Kenny doesn't even care a little bit about Clementine is untrue.
Exactly.
Kenny is my best fiend. My frenemy.
Yeah, I've decided what you did was fair enough, so I've reposted the big luke desense post from a while back, as people don't try to defend him often.
But I'm saying these arguments had already been expressed prior to the hate threads.
But regardless, I think overall in that comment you're replying to, I was wrong, and I apologise for it.
It's not exactly a competition of misery, although Clementine would clearly have everyone else beat in that category.
I find it interesting that Kenny only apologizes if you stay quiet and take his abuse. Challenging him makes him say "I don't need to hear this shit!" Placating him by saying you need him also gets his sympathy.
I didn´t mean that those statements are condradictory, i meant that you´re trying to say that he wasn´t SO reckless when he OBVIOUSLY WAS, every one with some commom sense would agree, but you keep your pitiful denial to defend Kenny. My concern here was the gradation: "little" became "not completely", which certainly means more than "little", even in a vague way, but you just don´t want to reach and say the "a lot" level of recklessness because of your stupid denial.
He couldn´t be sure if they would be totally helpless when locked up, maybe they would even have better chances there than going all rambo when the truck opens, so why try this plan, which was pretty risky, when a better opportunity could show up? That´s because he is impatient and want to try getting out as soon as possible, regardless of the high risks. In other words, he is RECKLESS.
And yes you are distorting the truth with your EUPHEMISM( "not completely reckless", another way to tell that Kenny is 99% reckless ), since the truth is about Kenny being reckless and also that´s the part of your thread we are discussing about. He was being pretty reckless and at least 90% of people would agree, so whoever trusted him with this plan was most likely just kissing his ass.
My god. I didn't say that you said that the statements were contradictory, I was simply saying that the statements can go hand in hand because they do not contradict each other. Throwing a hissy fit over using both words is ridiculous.
Lets try and make this easier for you. What is another phrase or word for "not completely". How about "incomplete"? Let's take a look at the definition. We'll keep it very basic.
Incomplete: "Not complete". "Lacking a part"
Obviously when I say Kenny was a little reckless, that means he was not completely reckless... considering "a little" in this form obviously means to a small extent or lesser degree. So while Kenny's actions were reckless to a small (or little) extent, they were not reckless to the complete extent. If I wanted to say he was straight up reckless I would just say that. Saying a "little reckless" implies a split of some kind. There was risk to what he was doing, but there was also merit. So when I say he was being a little reckless, it is for all extents and purposes the same thing as saying he wasn't being completely reckless. Arguing otherwise is just stupid.
No, I don't want to say he was very reckless because I don't feel that he was based on the observations I have made. It has nothing to do with denial.
So? You think that means he should have taken his chances? That's very illogical.
"Maybe" is key here. He had no way of knowing either way when inside the truck. Think about it.
Because the truck was potentially the only opportunity for escape that they had, which is why Kenny was so concerned about getting locked up in the first place.
Not based on anything. If you would have listened to his dialogue at all in that scene you would understand that he was simply very afraid of getting locked away. He thought that was basically game over in his book. Obviously it didn't end up working out like that, but his concerns were 100% valid. At the time, he decided he would rather take his chances in a fight rather than get locked away and be potentially totally defenseless and at the mercy of Carver.
No, you can't tell that at all based on that sentence. It doesn't necessarily imply any given percentage. I shouldn't even have to explain this..
I agree with that. Kenny's attitude toward Clem's survival is notable because the other members of the group all have at least some shred of "Clem's a child, we should at least try to protect her." But Kenny has indeed left that line of reasoning completely behind.
He'll be more like King Winceslas - a 'good guy' who nonetheless forces people into positions they don't want to be in the first place.
I'm hoping Kenny loyalists gets a treat out of the episode, even if he does die. And that doesn't have to be a "heroic sacrifice" (as people on this forum seem to dislike) but simply an apology or something similar towards Clementine.
Nostalgia is a big part of why I keep agreeing with him at this point, even if I do understand his situation.
Great post, thank you Belan.
Poor Kenny.
He's lost so much...
He's lost his wife, his son, his best friend and now his girlfriend. Not to mention he's lost his eye.
It makes sense for him to be angry or sad.
Regardless, I'm sticking with him but not Luke.
Poor Luke.
He's lost so much...
He's lost his family, his best friend, his adoptive family, and then his potential girlfriend. Not to mention he's broken his ribs.
it makes sense for him to be angry/sad.
I'm sick of both him and Kenny.
Poor Lee.
He lost so much...
He lost his family, the girl he loved (Carley/Lilly), his arm and his life. He was blamed by everyone for everything he did, even when that was the right choice. Lots of people betrayed him. But he was still strong enough to take care of Clementine without going crazy/having random sex. Poor Lee, he deserved better.
#WemissLee.
yes we do