Seriously? You don't see how a child who isn't even a teen yet having a child put on her and losing the one person left in her life that she knows would cause her to break down? ..... That's your argument?... Really??.... Really??
She also cried when Kenny told her to stay at Wellington and leave him. I don't see much reason for Clem, psychopath or not, to cry in that … moresituation .It's so transparently obvious the writing was specifically tailored to people who sympathized with Kenny, and no one else.
No, it showed she cared only for herself. Kenny cared about Clem, but that moment wasn't about Clem. That moment was about AJ. People are… more allowed to have this thing called concern. it's the dang thing everyone complained about when Sarah die din front of ev...wait...no...a baby was born, looked like it might have been dead but wasn't, and thus they all had a bittersweet moment of celebration.
Kenny cared for the kids right up until the end, and it seems that's the case no matter what.
Jane was selfish and it got her killed. At no time did she ever stop fighting Kenny. She's trying to kill him because of her lie. Yes self defense...but the girl set the man off with a lie. If it was true then yes, I'd have sided with her but what she said before he came in...I knew it was a set up.
So no, screw the crazy bitch trying to set off Kenny. She's the real psycho.
Don't you say she didn't sob over Omids death, there were months and months if not years of inbetween time where you never saw her, and even after it gets back to her you can express wishing Omid was still alive... obviously it hit her hard, just not immediately.
I think the point is that it's unfair how the writing was so clearly pushing for players to sympathize with Kenny no matter what. It doesn't… more matter what you thought of him, it doesn't matter if your Clem didn't like him. The game forces Clem to sob over his death even though she didn't shed a tear over Omid's death.
Even if Jane is a psycho, that doesn't change that Kenny is too. Clementine isn't safe with either of them, I just think Jane is the better choice. She never does anything to hurt Clementine, where as Kenny has taken his anger out on Clementine before, aswell as shoved her and pushed her. Next time, when it's just him, Clementine and the baby, he will take it out on Clem.
No, it showed she cared only for herself. Kenny cared about Clem, but that moment wasn't about Clem. That moment was about AJ. People are… more allowed to have this thing called concern. it's the dang thing everyone complained about when Sarah die din front of ev...wait...no...a baby was born, looked like it might have been dead but wasn't, and thus they all had a bittersweet moment of celebration.
Kenny cared for the kids right up until the end, and it seems that's the case no matter what.
Jane was selfish and it got her killed. At no time did she ever stop fighting Kenny. She's trying to kill him because of her lie. Yes self defense...but the girl set the man off with a lie. If it was true then yes, I'd have sided with her but what she said before he came in...I knew it was a set up.
So no, screw the crazy bitch trying to set off Kenny. She's the real psycho.
Once while Kenny is trying to stab Jane and once right after he kills her, as you said. Then, while I'm not completely sure about this, I think you get an option to shoot him on some dialogue path at the car when you find AJ.
Point is that the writers consciously chose not to show Clem sobbing over Omid, but they did choose to show her sobbing over Kenny. It's so obvious that the player is meant to sympathize with Kenny regardless of what the player thinks of him.
Don't you say she didn't sob over Omids death, there were months and months if not years of inbetween time where you never saw her, and even… more after it gets back to her you can express wishing Omid was still alive... obviously it hit her hard, just not immediately.
I appreciated how Luke saved Clem in the forest and the lake, and yet no tears were shed for him.
This bothered me too. Clementine may not share the "we both knew Lee back in the beginning of the ZA" with him, but my Clem was close to Luke on a personal level. They had a sibling-like banter to their interactions and we got to share our backstory with him. They worked as a team.
My Clementine would have shed a lot more tears over Luke's death. Especially since he saved her during his last moments too.
My argument is that the game assumes that the player likes Kenny, even if they don't. It's not hard to understand.
Besides, Clem was nowhere near as upset when Omid and Christa were taken from her, even though she was with them far longer and presumably bonded with them far more than she did with Kenny. Pretty out of character for Clem to suddenly cry over Kenny saying bye to her when she didn't shed a tear for Omid and Christa presumably dying.
Seriously? You don't see how a child who isn't even a teen yet having a child put on her and losing the one person left in her life that she knows would cause her to break down? ..... That's your argument?... Really??.... Really??
That was something they did well in season one. Since the opportunities to get to know characters were usually during hubs, it was optional to get to know them and share stories. Even if you did, your responses changed their perception of you.
For example, Brie could outright refuse to talk to you in Crawford if you were rude to her beforehand. If you were nice (or at least neutral), you would get to ask her questions.
Oh Merak I had many doubts about Kenny, but him killing/leaving Clem was not one of them. I always knew Clem could trust Kenny no matter what, that's why I liked him. If Bonnie and Mike just ups and leaves her for death you see I was right, right?
Jane manipulates Kenny into a fight to the death(atleast my Clem's best friend and protector). I chose to kill Jane because how could Clem live with herself after killing that person?
Good people are sometimes people with problems, don't get fooled by "nice" people.
Also I left Kenny at Wellington since he was so broken, and it was his last wish. Best ending ever
Point is that the writers consciously chose not to show Clem sobbing over Omid, but they did choose to show her sobbing over Kenny. It's so obvious that the player is meant to sympathize with Kenny regardless of what the player thinks of him.
Yeah, Luke deserved so much more. And I wouldn't even be bothered about Clem's lack of tears if the game had established that she rarely cries for anything. But the fact that she indeterminately cries about Kenny showed that Clem was capable of crying for people she cared about. Too bad Telltale just assumed everyone cared more about Kenny than they did about Luke.
I appreciated how Luke saved Clem in the forest and the lake, and yet no tears were shed for him.
This bothered me too. Clementine m… moreay not share the "we both knew Lee back in the beginning of the ZA" with him, but my Clem was close to Luke on a personal level. They had a sibling-like banter to their interactions and we got to share our backstory with him. They worked as a team.
My Clementine would have shed a lot more tears over Luke's death. Especially since he saved her during his last moments too.
She also cried when Kenny told her to stay at Wellington and leave him. I don't see much reason for Clem, psychopath or not, to cry in that situation .It's so transparently obvious the writing was specifically tailored to people who sympathized with Kenny, and no one else.
That scene your bitching about, where Clem is crying when Kenny has her stay at Wellington alone with a newborn makes perfect sense. Even if she is with Kenny just because she choose not to take action and thereby allowed Kenny to win the fight, and she couldn't kill him afterwards it still makes sense. Clem crying has nothing to do with how WE feel, but how SHE feels as a character in that scene.
She's a young girl not even a teenager yet who has been given the responsibility of raising a newborn baby by herself in a community she knows nothing about nor does she know anyone in it. Meanwhile the last person she knows and he last person that she has known the longest is abandoning her there. I'd be shocked if that wouldn't cause an 11 year old to break down. I'm damn near 30 and if I was in the situation I'd be emotional as hell about it myself.
For all she knows she could find out that place is run by a guy like the Governor. She has no idea what she's getting into. All she knows is their are big walls, and they aren't taking people in.
The only way that scene would be horribly written is if Clem wasn't crying, and upset.
My argument is that the game assumes that the player likes Kenny, even if they don't. It's not hard to understand.
Besides, Clem was nowh… moreere near as upset when Omid and Christa were taken from her, even though she was with them far longer and presumably bonded with them far more than she did with Kenny. Pretty out of character for Clem to suddenly cry over Kenny saying bye to her when she didn't shed a tear for Omid and Christa presumably dying.
I'm criticising the writing, not Kenny.
Yeah, I have no doubts Clem could count on Kenny. Problem is that Clem's friends can't count on Kenny. He didn't give a damn about anyone besides Clem and AJ, and as someone who liked pretty much everyone in the group, that couldn't slide with me. And let's not forget that it was Kenny who prompted Mike and Bonnie to leave in the first place Mike, Bonnie, Luke, Jane and Clem were getting along completely fine until Kenny ripped the group apart.
Besides, even though Jane's plan was completely idiotic, Kenny's reaction was completely unjustified. Jane walked in alone, said "He-" in a clearly heartbroken and guilt-ridden tone. Kenny went outside, couldn't find the baby, and immediately assumed that JANE MURDERED ALVIN JR. He then confronted Jane and accused her of murdering the baby, but Jane tells him that his death was an accident. He then proceeds to try to kill Jane for, what, accidentally getting AJ killed? From his POV, Jane did nothing that warranted death.
Oh Merak I had many doubts about Kenny, but him killing/leaving Clem was not one of them. I always knew Clem could trust Kenny no matter wha… moret, that's why I liked him. If Bonnie and Mike just ups and leaves her for death you see I was right, right?
Jane manipulates Kenny into a fight to the death(atleast my Clem's best friend and protector). I chose to kill Jane because how could Clem live with herself after killing that person?
Good people are sometimes people with problems, don't get fooled by "nice" people.
Also I left Kenny at Wellington since he was so broken, and it was his last wish. Best ending ever
Agree. I'm not going to lie Kenny's ending when he finally saw sense and give up Clem and AJ in Wellington, was definitely the best thing he has ever done but seeing Clem cry so much did make me wonder where were the tears for all the other characters. Namely Luke, Omid & Christa.
On another hand, I completely agree with you and your opinions. I didn't like Kenny too much. Even when we met him in the Lodge I was confused as to why we were suddenly so close. I liked him for the sole reason that he was my last connection to Lee and Duck, but that was about it. He handled situations poorly, escalated things, and made problems out of nothing.
That's the thing. Telltale goes on and on about how this is OUR Clementine. We choose what kind of person she becomes, the bonds she makes, what path she'll take. And that's great and all, except no Clementine ever is allowed to not sympathize with Kenny. Clem was given the choice to either support Nick or let him die. She was given the choice to save Sarah or let her die. She was given the choice to forgive Bonnie or not. She was not given a choice whether to like Kenny or not. I'll point out that even if you tell Kenny that him ranting at Clem hurt her, she indeterminately forgives him immediately afterwards. Okay, so I'm forced to forgive Kenny, but not Bonnie?
The way the scene was written didn't take in to account players who didn't feel secure with Kenny, or players that disliked Kenny but still wanted to go to Wellington, or players that simply just didn't give a damn about Kenny. And we've seen before that Clem has been in much worse situations like getting separated from Christa, or from Kenny and Jane during the blizzard, and she didn't just burst into tears. It was badly written because nothing in the game beforehand portrayed Clem as the type of kid to burst into tears whenever the going gets tough, and her saying bye to Kenny certainly wasn't the worst thing she's been through, not by a long shot.
She also cried when Kenny told her to stay at Wellington and leave him. I don't see much reason for Clem, psychopath or not, to cry in that … moresituation .It's so transparently obvious the writing was specifically tailored to people who sympathized with Kenny, and no one else.
That scene your bitching about, where Clem is crying when Kenny has her stay at Wellington alone with a newborn makes perfect sense. Even if she is with Kenny just because she choose not to take action and thereby allowed Kenny to win the fight, and she couldn't kill him afterwards it still makes sense. Clem crying has nothing to do with how WE feel, but how SHE feels as a character in that scene.
She's a young girl not even a teenager yet who has been given the responsibility of raising a newborn baby by herself in a community she knows nothing about nor does she know anyone in it. Meanwhile the last person she knows and he last person that she has known the lo… [view original content]
This is what broke the immersion of the finale for me regarding about Kenny. Telltale was literally begging me to stick with Kenny no matter what. Telltale was doing all it could to show that Kenny was the only good person left in the whole world and everyone else was traitorous bastards looking out for themselves.
Except no, Kenny was the one in the wrong, and I never get to call him out on it. I was forced to sympathise with him, I was forced to overlook everything wrong he had done in the past. Everything Kenny had done in No Going Back destroyed the group, nothing he did was for anyone's benefit but for himself and possibly Clementine and the baby.
He revelled in his bloodlust with beating Arvo and I'm supposed to side with him for this? Then BAM. I'm shot by Arvo later. I'd be siding with Kenny for this despicable act...except that Arvo's behaviour was directly influenced by Kenny's sheer cruelty towards him throughout their journey to Arvo's house, and Clementine's presence meant that soon Kenny would come out and give him yet another beating, or to kill him.
I'd be hating Mike and Bonnie for their betrayal and the attempted car theft...except that Kenny did nothing but push them away by risking their lives on what appeared to be a pipe dream, and we had no say on whether we should go to Wellington or not. We weren't allowed to disagree with Kenny. We had to go no matter what. So what if Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo died along the way just as Sarita and the cabin group did? At least Kenny, Clementine and the baby will be safe in Wellington that just might exist! Mike and Bonnie were the selfish ones for wanting to setting the arguments like proper grown ups and suggested to go elsewhere in safer locations, before having enough with Kenny's suicidal plan and wanting to take a safer bet by taking the car.
And lets not get into the final confrontation between Kenny and Jane.
I was supposed to just let Kenny be Kenny and see him destroy everything he touches for the sake of his so-called loved ones? I'm supposed to shut my mouth and just accept that what Kenny wants, Kenny gets? Everything goes Kenny's way regardless of how it affects other people?
So here's how I see it... Kenny was irrational at times.. stubborn beyond belief.. barbaric when the right buttons were pushed... unreasonable when in the heat of the moment.. and down right nasty if he didn't know you well and you rubbed him the wrong way.. but you can't say that everyone else was so damn perfect... Bonnie turned on you in an instant if you decided to trust Lukes word over hers and decide to cover him instead of risking the extra weight on the ice around him.. Mike seemed decent enough until you saw he was ready and willing to leave clem, the baby, and Jane while taking off w Bonney and all the supplies and truck. So both Bonney and mike were perfectly fine w not giving a shit about clem.. fuck them. Jane liked Clem alot.. but already deserted us once not giving a damn.. and then set Kenny up with her little "experiment" even though she was just like Kenny when it came to trusting people. One thing is for certain... Kenny was the only one who was going to be there for Clem no matter what.. He is going to protect her at all cost. This is proven when he is more than willing to make clem stay without him in the end. KENNY IS NOT LEE... Lee was my favorite and I'll be the first to admit that Lee had a better head on his shoulders and was all around a great guy.. (great scene w him btw) but one thing is for sure... In the areas that matter most? Making sure to protect, and love, and take care of Clem at all cost.. he's just like Lee. As unstable as he may be at times... Kenny has a good heart.. He knows what having a family means.. and knows how to love.. and in an apocalyptic world... where all has gone to shit.. and keeping your sanity is a struggle everyday... that he can still love through all this... tells me all I need to know.
Er... you do realize that I'm criticising how Telltale wrote Kenny in Season Two and not the character himself, right? This isn't a Kenny Hate thread or whatever.
So here's how I see it... Kenny was irrational at times.. stubborn beyond belief.. barbaric when the right buttons were pushed... unreasonab… morele when in the heat of the moment.. and down right nasty if he didn't know you well and you rubbed him the wrong way.. but you can't say that everyone else was so damn perfect... Bonnie turned on you in an instant if you decided to trust Lukes word over hers and decide to cover him instead of risking the extra weight on the ice around him.. Mike seemed decent enough until you saw he was ready and willing to leave clem, the baby, and Jane while taking off w Bonney and all the supplies and truck. So both Bonney and mike were perfectly fine w not giving a shit about clem.. fuck them. Jane liked Clem alot.. but already deserted us once not giving a damn.. and then set Kenny up with her little "experiment" even though she was just like Kenny when it came to trusting people. One thing is for certain... Kenny wa… [view original content]
I don't know what to tell you. She is literally being thrust into a situation where she has no power, few options, and the duty to be the main paternal figure to a child. She has no weapon, she has no connections to the area, she doesn't know anything about the people there, she has been burdened with the responsibility of raising a new born, and the last person that she's known for a decent amount of time that she knows for a fact is alive, is leaving her. If you can't see how that would cause the character of an 11 year old girl even a strong one like Clem who just had been shot, to break down then we don't see the world the same.
This isn't about YOU, this is about the story, and in that situation Clem reacted believably for her character. At that point even if you are playing Clem as someone who simply isn't strong enough to stand up to people (and thereby let the fight go on to the end where Kenny kills Jane, and who isn't strong enough to kill Kenny after that fact and allowed him to decided what happens to her) then there is nothing odd about her reaction. It's not "forced" in the lest. Your simply wrong about that scenario, and if you stepped back a bit away from your "I hate Kenny" mindset and looked at it the way a writer would I believe you'd see that.
That's the thing. Telltale goes on and on about how this is OUR Clementine. We choose what kind of person she becomes, the bonds she makes, … morewhat path she'll take. And that's great and all, except no Clementine ever is allowed to not sympathize with Kenny. Clem was given the choice to either support Nick or let him die. She was given the choice to save Sarah or let her die. She was given the choice to forgive Bonnie or not. She was not given a choice whether to like Kenny or not. I'll point out that even if you tell Kenny that him ranting at Clem hurt her, she indeterminately forgives him immediately afterwards. Okay, so I'm forced to forgive Kenny, but not Bonnie?
The way the scene was written didn't take in to account players who didn't feel secure with Kenny, or players that disliked Kenny but still wanted to go to Wellington, or players that simply just didn't give a damn about Kenny. And we've seen before that Clem has been in much wor… [view original content]
I personally liked Kenny (most of the time) but I agree with you op. Being forced to like him by the game was really unfair to people that didn't like him.
They could have just added that crying animation in depending on your previous interactions with Luke. She could have cried if they had a good relationship or just felt bad if they didn't. That's an easy fix.
Yeah, Luke deserved so much more. And I wouldn't even be bothered about Clem's lack of tears if the game had established that she rarely cri… morees for anything. But the fact that she indeterminately cries about Kenny showed that Clem was capable of crying for people she cared about. Too bad Telltale just assumed everyone cared more about Kenny than they did about Luke.
oh look another Kenny hater so what just because Clem doesn't like Kenny she has to become heartless???
You can kill him and act against him all the time the others say that you are close only because you already know each other
Kenny and Clem's relationship was the best in S2 Jane was a psycho, Bonnie and Mike were fucking traitors who wanted to leave the baby
and Clem
(maybe Luke would been awesome but thats about it)
Even if Jane is a psycho, that doesn't change that Kenny is too. Clementine isn't safe with either of them, I just think Jane is the better … morechoice. She never does anything to hurt Clementine, where as Kenny has taken his anger out on Clementine before, aswell as shoved her and pushed her. Next time, when it's just him, Clementine and the baby, he will take it out on Clem.
I KNOW! That was so weird.
I was wondering why Clementine was so broken up... if anything, Kenny's death was kind of bitter-sweet. He finally got what he wanted, peace.
That didn't happen for me. I watched a playthrough again and same result. Who did you try to stop when they exited the rest stop but were still fighting?
I stopped whoever had the advantage and tried to keep them from doing this. Jane pushed me around very time. And when it came down to the last choice...I chose to let her die. Like I said somewhere here, this screamed set up. I wasn't going to let Kenny take the fall. But i tried right up until the end to stop them both in spite of knowing Jane's game.
That didn't happen for me. I watched a playthrough again and same result. Who did you try to stop when they exited the rest stop but were still fighting?
Did you even read my posts? I don't even hate Kenny, I actually quite liked his character overall. I was criticising how badly the writers handled his character in Season Two. I guess it's easier for you to write off critics as simple-minded Kenny haters so you don't have to acknowledge their points, huh?
oh look another Kenny hater so what just because Clem doesn't like Kenny she has to become heartless???
You can kill him and act against h… moreim all the time the others say that you are close only because you already know each other
Kenny and Clem's relationship was the best in S2 Jane was a psycho, Bonnie and Mike were fucking traitors who wanted to leave the baby
and Clem
(maybe Luke would been awesome but thats about it)
Aren't you forgetting that Kenny by that point already hates Jane's guts? Argument in the truck? Jane shitting on him, just pissing him off even more. So it didn't surprise me, that he just up and wanted to kill Jane.
Yeah, I have no doubts Clem could count on Kenny. Problem is that Clem's friends can't count on Kenny. He didn't give a damn about anyone be… moresides Clem and AJ, and as someone who liked pretty much everyone in the group, that couldn't slide with me. And let's not forget that it was Kenny who prompted Mike and Bonnie to leave in the first place Mike, Bonnie, Luke, Jane and Clem were getting along completely fine until Kenny ripped the group apart.
Besides, even though Jane's plan was completely idiotic, Kenny's reaction was completely unjustified. Jane walked in alone, said "He-" in a clearly heartbroken and guilt-ridden tone. Kenny went outside, couldn't find the baby, and immediately assumed that JANE MURDERED ALVIN JR. He then confronted Jane and accused her of murdering the baby, but Jane tells him that his death was an accident. He then proceeds to try to kill Jane for, what, accidentally getting AJ killed? From his POV, Jane did nothing that warranted death.
First of all, I don't even hate Kenny, I hate how the writers used him this season.
Second of all, it's clear that Clem is canonically someone who doesn't cry no matter how powerless or scared she is in an unfamiliar situation. Remember after she was separated from Christa? She had no weapons, no food, no connections, no people she knew, the last person she knew was alive had been taken from her, and yet she didn't burst into tears there. Or how about when she was alone in the herd? No food, no friends, she had just potentially killed Sarita, and yet she didn't cry there. She was in a much worse situation there than in the Wellington ending.
You claim that it's in character for Clem to cry in the Wellington ending because she's a person who cried when in powerless and unfamiliar situations, exept the game has shown numerous times that she's been in much worse situations and she didn't burst into tears. Her crying there was not believable based on her previous behavior.
You also claim that Clem not shooting Kenny is the same as playing her as someone who isn't strong. Okay, so Clem couldn't have not shot Kenny simply because she was loyal to him? Or because she didn't trust Jane? Why does that choice have to mean that Clem was weak?
I don't know what to tell you. She is literally being thrust into a situation where she has no power, few options, and the duty to be the ma… morein paternal figure to a child. She has no weapon, she has no connections to the area, she doesn't know anything about the people there, she has been burdened with the responsibility of raising a new born, and the last person that she's known for a decent amount of time that she knows for a fact is alive, is leaving her. If you can't see how that would cause the character of an 11 year old girl even a strong one like Clem who just had been shot, to break down then we don't see the world the same.
This isn't about YOU, this is about the story, and in that situation Clem reacted believably for her character. At that point even if you are playing Clem as someone who simply isn't strong enough to stand up to people (and thereby let the fight go on to the end where Kenny kills Jane, and who isn't strong eno… [view original content]
Of course I understand why he lost his shit. That doesn't mean it was justified.
Lilly suspected Ben was the traitor, and she was losing it, but that doesn't mean her trying to kill Ben was justified. Carley was shitting on Lilly and pissing her off, but that doesn't mean Lilly was justified in shooting her.
Aren't you forgetting that Kenny by that point already hates Jane's guts? Argument in the truck? Jane shitting on him, just pissing him off even more. So it didn't surprise me, that he just up and wanted to kill Jane.
It wasn't justified for sure, and I don't agree that Kenny should have up and killed Jane, but heck even if you let him, to some agree, you could maybe see some signs of regret in his eyes in the Wellington ending, I don't know, this episode really tried to make each character have good or bad qualities, in my opinion, they're both nuts. and Clem is better off.
Of course I understand why he lost his shit. That doesn't mean it was justified.
Lilly suspected Ben was the traitor, and she was losing … moreit, but that doesn't mean her trying to kill Ben was justified. Carley was shitting on Lilly and pissing her off, but that doesn't mean Lilly was justified in shooting her.
Comments
Seriously? You don't see how a child who isn't even a teen yet having a child put on her and losing the one person left in her life that she knows would cause her to break down? ..... That's your argument?... Really??.... Really??
Well said Dr. Emmet Brown, i agree 100%.
Don't you say she didn't sob over Omids death, there were months and months if not years of inbetween time where you never saw her, and even after it gets back to her you can express wishing Omid was still alive... obviously it hit her hard, just not immediately.
Even if Jane is a psycho, that doesn't change that Kenny is too. Clementine isn't safe with either of them, I just think Jane is the better choice. She never does anything to hurt Clementine, where as Kenny has taken his anger out on Clementine before, aswell as shoved her and pushed her. Next time, when it's just him, Clementine and the baby, he will take it out on Clem.
Yes you can kill Kenny after he kills Jane if you choose.
That isn't true.
Point is that the writers consciously chose not to show Clem sobbing over Omid, but they did choose to show her sobbing over Kenny. It's so obvious that the player is meant to sympathize with Kenny regardless of what the player thinks of him.
Good for you, I guess. And yeah, it's a shame that people hate people with issues. Nick and Sarah, I'll always love you guys!
By the way, I didn't hate Kenny at all. I hated how the writers handled him this season. Not that hard to understand.
This bothered me too. Clementine may not share the "we both knew Lee back in the beginning of the ZA" with him, but my Clem was close to Luke on a personal level. They had a sibling-like banter to their interactions and we got to share our backstory with him. They worked as a team.
My Clementine would have shed a lot more tears over Luke's death. Especially since he saved her during his last moments too.
My argument is that the game assumes that the player likes Kenny, even if they don't. It's not hard to understand.
Besides, Clem was nowhere near as upset when Omid and Christa were taken from her, even though she was with them far longer and presumably bonded with them far more than she did with Kenny. Pretty out of character for Clem to suddenly cry over Kenny saying bye to her when she didn't shed a tear for Omid and Christa presumably dying.
I'm criticising the writing, not Kenny.
That was something they did well in season one. Since the opportunities to get to know characters were usually during hubs, it was optional to get to know them and share stories. Even if you did, your responses changed their perception of you.
For example, Brie could outright refuse to talk to you in Crawford if you were rude to her beforehand. If you were nice (or at least neutral), you would get to ask her questions.
Oh Merak I had many doubts about Kenny, but him killing/leaving Clem was not one of them. I always knew Clem could trust Kenny no matter what, that's why I liked him. If Bonnie and Mike just ups and leaves her for death you see I was right, right?
Jane manipulates Kenny into a fight to the death(atleast my Clem's best friend and protector). I chose to kill Jane because how could Clem live with herself after killing that person?
Good people are sometimes people with problems, don't get fooled by "nice" people.
Also I left Kenny at Wellington since he was so broken, and it was his last wish. Best ending ever
Yeah, Luke deserved so much more. And I wouldn't even be bothered about Clem's lack of tears if the game had established that she rarely cries for anything. But the fact that she indeterminately cries about Kenny showed that Clem was capable of crying for people she cared about. Too bad Telltale just assumed everyone cared more about Kenny than they did about Luke.
That scene your bitching about, where Clem is crying when Kenny has her stay at Wellington alone with a newborn makes perfect sense. Even if she is with Kenny just because she choose not to take action and thereby allowed Kenny to win the fight, and she couldn't kill him afterwards it still makes sense. Clem crying has nothing to do with how WE feel, but how SHE feels as a character in that scene.
She's a young girl not even a teenager yet who has been given the responsibility of raising a newborn baby by herself in a community she knows nothing about nor does she know anyone in it. Meanwhile the last person she knows and he last person that she has known the longest is abandoning her there. I'd be shocked if that wouldn't cause an 11 year old to break down. I'm damn near 30 and if I was in the situation I'd be emotional as hell about it myself.
For all she knows she could find out that place is run by a guy like the Governor. She has no idea what she's getting into. All she knows is their are big walls, and they aren't taking people in.
The only way that scene would be horribly written is if Clem wasn't crying, and upset.
Yeah, I have no doubts Clem could count on Kenny. Problem is that Clem's friends can't count on Kenny. He didn't give a damn about anyone besides Clem and AJ, and as someone who liked pretty much everyone in the group, that couldn't slide with me. And let's not forget that it was Kenny who prompted Mike and Bonnie to leave in the first place Mike, Bonnie, Luke, Jane and Clem were getting along completely fine until Kenny ripped the group apart.
Besides, even though Jane's plan was completely idiotic, Kenny's reaction was completely unjustified. Jane walked in alone, said "He-" in a clearly heartbroken and guilt-ridden tone. Kenny went outside, couldn't find the baby, and immediately assumed that JANE MURDERED ALVIN JR. He then confronted Jane and accused her of murdering the baby, but Jane tells him that his death was an accident. He then proceeds to try to kill Jane for, what, accidentally getting AJ killed? From his POV, Jane did nothing that warranted death.
Agree. I'm not going to lie Kenny's ending when he finally saw sense and give up Clem and AJ in Wellington, was definitely the best thing he has ever done but seeing Clem cry so much did make me wonder where were the tears for all the other characters. Namely Luke, Omid & Christa.
On another hand, I completely agree with you and your opinions. I didn't like Kenny too much. Even when we met him in the Lodge I was confused as to why we were suddenly so close. I liked him for the sole reason that he was my last connection to Lee and Duck, but that was about it. He handled situations poorly, escalated things, and made problems out of nothing.
That's the thing. Telltale goes on and on about how this is OUR Clementine. We choose what kind of person she becomes, the bonds she makes, what path she'll take. And that's great and all, except no Clementine ever is allowed to not sympathize with Kenny. Clem was given the choice to either support Nick or let him die. She was given the choice to save Sarah or let her die. She was given the choice to forgive Bonnie or not. She was not given a choice whether to like Kenny or not. I'll point out that even if you tell Kenny that him ranting at Clem hurt her, she indeterminately forgives him immediately afterwards. Okay, so I'm forced to forgive Kenny, but not Bonnie?
The way the scene was written didn't take in to account players who didn't feel secure with Kenny, or players that disliked Kenny but still wanted to go to Wellington, or players that simply just didn't give a damn about Kenny. And we've seen before that Clem has been in much worse situations like getting separated from Christa, or from Kenny and Jane during the blizzard, and she didn't just burst into tears. It was badly written because nothing in the game beforehand portrayed Clem as the type of kid to burst into tears whenever the going gets tough, and her saying bye to Kenny certainly wasn't the worst thing she's been through, not by a long shot.
This is what broke the immersion of the finale for me regarding about Kenny. Telltale was literally begging me to stick with Kenny no matter what. Telltale was doing all it could to show that Kenny was the only good person left in the whole world and everyone else was traitorous bastards looking out for themselves.
Except no, Kenny was the one in the wrong, and I never get to call him out on it. I was forced to sympathise with him, I was forced to overlook everything wrong he had done in the past. Everything Kenny had done in No Going Back destroyed the group, nothing he did was for anyone's benefit but for himself and possibly Clementine and the baby.
He revelled in his bloodlust with beating Arvo and I'm supposed to side with him for this? Then BAM. I'm shot by Arvo later. I'd be siding with Kenny for this despicable act...except that Arvo's behaviour was directly influenced by Kenny's sheer cruelty towards him throughout their journey to Arvo's house, and Clementine's presence meant that soon Kenny would come out and give him yet another beating, or to kill him.
I'd be hating Mike and Bonnie for their betrayal and the attempted car theft...except that Kenny did nothing but push them away by risking their lives on what appeared to be a pipe dream, and we had no say on whether we should go to Wellington or not. We weren't allowed to disagree with Kenny. We had to go no matter what. So what if Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo died along the way just as Sarita and the cabin group did? At least Kenny, Clementine and the baby will be safe in Wellington that just might exist! Mike and Bonnie were the selfish ones for wanting to setting the arguments like proper grown ups and suggested to go elsewhere in safer locations, before having enough with Kenny's suicidal plan and wanting to take a safer bet by taking the car.
And lets not get into the final confrontation between Kenny and Jane.
I was supposed to just let Kenny be Kenny and see him destroy everything he touches for the sake of his so-called loved ones? I'm supposed to shut my mouth and just accept that what Kenny wants, Kenny gets? Everything goes Kenny's way regardless of how it affects other people?
I don't think so.
So here's how I see it... Kenny was irrational at times.. stubborn beyond belief.. barbaric when the right buttons were pushed... unreasonable when in the heat of the moment.. and down right nasty if he didn't know you well and you rubbed him the wrong way.. but you can't say that everyone else was so damn perfect... Bonnie turned on you in an instant if you decided to trust Lukes word over hers and decide to cover him instead of risking the extra weight on the ice around him.. Mike seemed decent enough until you saw he was ready and willing to leave clem, the baby, and Jane while taking off w Bonney and all the supplies and truck. So both Bonney and mike were perfectly fine w not giving a shit about clem.. fuck them. Jane liked Clem alot.. but already deserted us once not giving a damn.. and then set Kenny up with her little "experiment" even though she was just like Kenny when it came to trusting people. One thing is for certain... Kenny was the only one who was going to be there for Clem no matter what.. He is going to protect her at all cost. This is proven when he is more than willing to make clem stay without him in the end. KENNY IS NOT LEE... Lee was my favorite and I'll be the first to admit that Lee had a better head on his shoulders and was all around a great guy.. (great scene w him btw) but one thing is for sure... In the areas that matter most? Making sure to protect, and love, and take care of Clem at all cost.. he's just like Lee. As unstable as he may be at times... Kenny has a good heart.. He knows what having a family means.. and knows how to love.. and in an apocalyptic world... where all has gone to shit.. and keeping your sanity is a struggle everyday... that he can still love through all this... tells me all I need to know.
Er... you do realize that I'm criticising how Telltale wrote Kenny in Season Two and not the character himself, right? This isn't a Kenny Hate thread or whatever.
This is why a lot of Kenny fans can't be taken seriously. This is your only argument.
I don't know what to tell you. She is literally being thrust into a situation where she has no power, few options, and the duty to be the main paternal figure to a child. She has no weapon, she has no connections to the area, she doesn't know anything about the people there, she has been burdened with the responsibility of raising a new born, and the last person that she's known for a decent amount of time that she knows for a fact is alive, is leaving her. If you can't see how that would cause the character of an 11 year old girl even a strong one like Clem who just had been shot, to break down then we don't see the world the same.
This isn't about YOU, this is about the story, and in that situation Clem reacted believably for her character. At that point even if you are playing Clem as someone who simply isn't strong enough to stand up to people (and thereby let the fight go on to the end where Kenny kills Jane, and who isn't strong enough to kill Kenny after that fact and allowed him to decided what happens to her) then there is nothing odd about her reaction. It's not "forced" in the lest. Your simply wrong about that scenario, and if you stepped back a bit away from your "I hate Kenny" mindset and looked at it the way a writer would I believe you'd see that.
I personally liked Kenny (most of the time) but I agree with you op. Being forced to like him by the game was really unfair to people that didn't like him.
They could have just added that crying animation in depending on your previous interactions with Luke. She could have cried if they had a good relationship or just felt bad if they didn't. That's an easy fix.
oh look another Kenny hater so what just because Clem doesn't like Kenny she has to become heartless???
You can kill him and act against him all the time the others say that you are close only because you already know each other
Kenny and Clem's relationship was the best in S2 Jane was a psycho, Bonnie and Mike were fucking traitors who wanted to leave the baby
and Clem
(maybe Luke would been awesome but thats about it)
Incorrect you asshole
Did you not fucking see how jane shoved clementine too?
Clementine's a little girl. As hardened as she may be, unless she absolutely despises whoever's dying (Carver, for example) I think she'll cry.
What do you think is incorrect?
AMEN.
That didn't happen for me. I watched a playthrough again and same result. Who did you try to stop when they exited the rest stop but were still fighting?
I stopped whoever had the advantage and tried to keep them from doing this. Jane pushed me around very time. And when it came down to the last choice...I chose to let her die. Like I said somewhere here, this screamed set up. I wasn't going to let Kenny take the fall. But i tried right up until the end to stop them both in spite of knowing Jane's game.
Did you even read my posts? I don't even hate Kenny, I actually quite liked his character overall. I was criticising how badly the writers handled his character in Season Two. I guess it's easier for you to write off critics as simple-minded Kenny haters so you don't have to acknowledge their points, huh?
And yet there were no tears for Duck, Katjaa, Omid, Pete, Nick, Sarah, Rebecca, Luke, etc...
Aren't you forgetting that Kenny by that point already hates Jane's guts? Argument in the truck? Jane shitting on him, just pissing him off even more. So it didn't surprise me, that he just up and wanted to kill Jane.
First of all, I don't even hate Kenny, I hate how the writers used him this season.
Second of all, it's clear that Clem is canonically someone who doesn't cry no matter how powerless or scared she is in an unfamiliar situation. Remember after she was separated from Christa? She had no weapons, no food, no connections, no people she knew, the last person she knew was alive had been taken from her, and yet she didn't burst into tears there. Or how about when she was alone in the herd? No food, no friends, she had just potentially killed Sarita, and yet she didn't cry there. She was in a much worse situation there than in the Wellington ending.
You claim that it's in character for Clem to cry in the Wellington ending because she's a person who cried when in powerless and unfamiliar situations, exept the game has shown numerous times that she's been in much worse situations and she didn't burst into tears. Her crying there was not believable based on her previous behavior.
You also claim that Clem not shooting Kenny is the same as playing her as someone who isn't strong. Okay, so Clem couldn't have not shot Kenny simply because she was loyal to him? Or because she didn't trust Jane? Why does that choice have to mean that Clem was weak?
They've been waiting a damn long time to kill the poor man...If Kenny got killed by a walker, they would've probably sided with the walker.
Of course I understand why he lost his shit. That doesn't mean it was justified.
Lilly suspected Ben was the traitor, and she was losing it, but that doesn't mean her trying to kill Ben was justified. Carley was shitting on Lilly and pissing her off, but that doesn't mean Lilly was justified in shooting her.
It wasn't justified for sure, and I don't agree that Kenny should have up and killed Jane, but heck even if you let him, to some agree, you could maybe see some signs of regret in his eyes in the Wellington ending, I don't know, this episode really tried to make each character have good or bad qualities, in my opinion, they're both nuts. and Clem is better off.