Lilly was too. Her paranoia was because she was tried to protect the group because someone was giving their supplies away. Jane came back, didn't she? I think it's cool how she trusts people because Clem was showing her how to be trustful.
I'm not convinced Kenny cares about Clementine. Well, maybe he does. Just in a really FUNNY way. Can you imagine if Kenny had gone to hotel to save Clem from the stranger? Just straight to violence. No talking it over like Lee did. No trying to see why the stranger would even kidnap Clem in the first place.
After all, if Jane does care! She came back, didn't she?
Carley didn't push Lilly, since Lilly wasn't on edge, she as just pissed off and weak minded.
And I'm not saying it isn't, it's pretty mu… morech the same thing, doesn't justify her murdering Carley though since it was just paranoia, Kenny only wanted to protect Clem from someone who would clearly abandon anyone to save her own sorry ass
All Carley did was stand up for herself when Lilly was throwing accusations and she wasn't right as she accused Carley of being the traitor. Jane on the other hand shows up with no baby and pulls out a knife ready for a fight.
But she didn't base any of her accusations of Carley, she just snapped at the first person she disliked, in fact, she was probably jealous of her. And sadly Jane would most likely abandon Clem all the same if the both are pushed to a corner, like she did to her sister.
Yeah, it would probably be violence and done with it, but the ends justify the means.
Lilly was too. Her paranoia was because she was tried to protect the group because someone was giving their supplies away. Jane came back, d… moreidn't she? I think it's cool how she trusts people because Clem was showing her how to be trustful.
I'm not convinced Kenny cares about Clementine. Well, maybe he does. Just in a really FUNNY way. Can you imagine if Kenny had gone to hotel to save Clem from the stranger? Just straight to violence. No talking it over like Lee did. No trying to see why the stranger would even kidnap Clem in the first place.
After all, if Jane does care! She came back, didn't she?
All Lilly did was throw accusations, nothing more. If her bullshit detector was so powerful, why didn't she detect any bullshit from Ben went she was hassling Carley?
Jane's sister wanted to die. Jane tried and tried to save her, but she pushed her through hell. Clementine, wants to live. So, Jane would not leave Clem behind.
But she didn't base any of her accusations of Carley, she just snapped at the first person she disliked, in fact, she was probably jealous o… moref her. And sadly Jane would most likely abandon Clem all the same if the both are pushed to a corner, like she did to her sister.
Yeah, it would probably be violence and done with it, but the ends justify the means.
All Lilly did was throw accusations, nothing more. If her bullshit detector was so powerful, why didn't she detect any bullshit from Ben went she was hassling Carley?
You know that's not true, Jane would leave anyone behind for her survival.
And yes, she did push her through hell, but she also gave up and stopped halfway through, to save her own skin, if she really wanted her sister to live that much she should've helped her no matter what she thinks.
Jane's sister wanted to die. Jane tried and tried to save her, but she pushed her through hell. Clementine, wants to live. So, Jane would not leave Clem behind.
The worst part is when you leave her Jane says:"I did this for you Clem!"
Yeah, okay...thanks for pissing off an old man and lying about how you had to kill a baby...
I didn't get the impression that she pretended to kill the baby. She walked in empty handed, and I don't think she said she killed him, or maybe I'm deaf. She was in a car accident and in a blizzard full of walkers, so I figured he just didn't make it. I basically sided with Kenny throughout the entire series, but at the point of him attempting to murder a friend over something she couldn't control, that was basically it for me. I ended up shooting Kenny. Once it was confirmed that the baby was still alive I still didn't regret my decision.
I don't think she had evil intentions, but her plan was stupid to the point of me thinking she was actually Ben using a mask. Really? You ca… moreuse all this shit just to prove a point?
Psycho or not, how would you react to someone killing a baby? Plus, even if Kenny was crazy, how is it smart to piss him off like that? I thought Jane was smarter than this. It ended up costing her life in my playthrough.
It was reckless, but she proved her point. Kenny trying to kill her over what she said was an accident is going too far, and he is the type of person that always has to have his way. Jane sees Clem as a younger sister I think, and that's why she is so protective.
I think Clem will be safer with Jane than with Kenny
What she said about Kenny was right. What she did - using a baby as a tool to deliberately provoke Kenny into a murderous rage - was wrong.… more I can't trust someone who'd exploit children that way. It seems that she was being very possessive towards Clem and perhaps even wanted an excuse to kill Kenny off.
Not that Clem would be safer with Kenny. Clementine needs to get away from creeps.
EXACTLY. Thought. No evidence. Jane kept saying it was an accident. He had NO right to attack her. Jane did what she hoped for, to show Clem what a monster Kenny is when he gets into a rage. If there's no one else around, it will be Clementine he attacks next time.
I take the logical paths with Clem, insomuch as Telltale 'allows' you to do so (which isn't much). That said, initially I DID shoot Kenny because his spiral of instability had become dangerous, but when Jane revealed her plan to show Kenny was a psychopath that needed to be put down it simply lacked sound, REASONED logic to the point of being a sociopathic decision. She absolutely DID intend to fight Kenny to the death, regardless of what any of you apologizers say. She refused repeated attempts to diffuse the situation, run away, or in any way reveal her ruse right up to the end, hoping all the while that Clementine would leap to her support and kill him. This is unbalanced and dangerous thinking -- and worse than that -- she would gladly make a killer of Clementine to prove a point, something Kenny has never done. Meanwhile, for Kenny this was simply the last straw in a long line of fuck-ups and he snapped. His behavior wasn't right, but in THIS instance his behavior was more sensible than Jane's given his history. She knew what he would do and CREATED a narrative to push him to the point of proving it, all so Clementine would turn against him.
In my case, it failed. I reloaded my save and refused to pick up the gun. She killed herself, in all honesty.
Whats not to excuse again? She didn't exploit a child, she was most likely sheltering it in the car (in a violent snow storm, probably obscured and relatively safe from walkers). She then heard Clem call out to her and probably made up her mind about what she had to do to convince Clem (who she has been trying to convince all episode, but we're never given the chance to actually believe her). The baby was as safe and warm as it was going to get at that point. No more harm to the child. This Kenny situation needs to be dealt with. He throws fits and is unproductive, but Clem keeps making excuses for his actions, and can't be expected to keep reeling him in, especially as young as she still is. Keeping up with Kenny's madness is exhausting.
I know you're not excusing either character, but Jane's actions aren't as monstrous as Kenny's. She wasn't really so much lying to them as testing them. You know, like the still skeptical loner she is in this dire situation. Kenny flew off the handle, as she knew he would, and violently attacked her, even though she tried to appease Clem and offer not to fight Kenny but rather talk with him. He opted to, once again, not listen to what anybody is saying and get lost in his emotions and misplaced blame.
She's not a monster for keeping the baby out of the storm as much as possible while she dealt with a difficult situation between a someone she's starting to grow attached to, and a violent, unreasonable insane person. She's not a lying whore because she needed to test, as much for herself as for Clem, that people could be trustworthy. But she knew how Kenny was going to react, and she knew she was going to have to eventually defend herself. Things escalated, Kenny keeps attacking and refuses to listen to reason, even from a pleading Clementine, until he gets the upper hand is content with killing the only person he can blame other than himself. Because he is an irrational asshole. Have I mentioned that in this post?
Yeah, Jane was lucky Clem was there, but in her defense, she wouldn't even be in that position if Clem wasn't.
I think my pronouns are starting to get wonky now, and this piece is running a bit long, so I think I'll stop here. My point is, While both characters wanted to change the situation in their favor, who wouldn't have? This situation was set to explode anyway. And Jane's actions, while not completely irrefutable, or maybe a little irrational, do not compare to Kenny's ongoing, destructive behavior. And she apparently needed to convince the loyalty railroaded Clementine.
What she said about Kenny was right. What she did - using a baby as a tool to deliberately provoke Kenny into a murderous rage - was wrong.… more I can't trust someone who'd exploit children that way. It seems that she was being very possessive towards Clem and perhaps even wanted an excuse to kill Kenny off.
Not that Clem would be safer with Kenny. Clementine needs to get away from creeps.
Well both had lost their minds at this point and you could see the fight coming from all the squabbling in the car. For me it pretty much boiled down to saving the person you were closest to. That was Kenny for me.
I take the logical paths with Clem, insomuch as Telltale 'allows' you to do so (which isn't much). That said, initially I DID shoot Kenny b… moreecause his spiral of instability had become dangerous, but when Jane revealed her plan to show Kenny was a psychopath that needed to be put down it simply lacked sound, REASONED logic to the point of being a sociopathic decision. She absolutely DID intend to fight Kenny to the death, regardless of what any of you apologizers say. She refused repeated attempts to diffuse the situation, run away, or in any way reveal her ruse right up to the end, hoping all the while that Clementine would leap to her support and kill him. This is unbalanced and dangerous thinking -- and worse than that -- she would gladly make a killer of Clementine to prove a point, something Kenny has never done. Meanwhile, for Kenny this was simply the last straw in a long line of fuck-ups and he snapped. His behavior wasn't right, … [view original content]
In the car for a second i actually believed that Jane and Kenny could get along but then she started to insult Kenny so hard like for no reason.. It was a pretty ugly arguement.
"why would anyone love you?" - she said.. Wow.. just wow.. the same goes for her..
Kenny was all self-defense...so don't give me that crap....jane clearly tried pushing his buttons...talking shit about his dead family and girlfriend...jane had no class and deserved what she got.
Really, I do not understand all the Jane hate? The baby was in a car, safe and she felt confident she could handle Kenny. Keep in mind that Jane was trying to prove something to Clementine. Kenny was turning into another Carver, he even admitted he lost himself if you shoot him. There is no way that I can trust someone who beats on an innocent man (Arvo) and feels justified.
Remember why Bonnie and Mike were leaving, they feared for their lives with Kenny. The man was broken and I would have been afraid for Clementine if she stayed with him.
Thank you someone understands. The fact that Kenny himself admits he was getting out of control even proves Jane's point further. Mike and Bonnie's betrayal was due because of him. I don't see why people can't understand this.
Really, I do not understand all the Jane hate? The baby was in a car, safe and she felt confident she could handle Kenny. Keep in mind tha… moret Jane was trying to prove something to Clementine. Kenny was turning into another Carver, he even admitted he lost himself if you shoot him. There is no way that I can trust someone who beats on an innocent man (Arvo) and feels justified.
Remember why Bonnie and Mike were leaving, they feared for their lives with Kenny. The man was broken and I would have been afraid for Clementine if she stayed with him.
I personally really like Jane. She saw from the beginning how dysfunctional the group was and warned Clem. In the end, it turned out she was right. Look at what Mike and Bonnie ended up doing. She also saw that Kenny was too far gone and was liable to snap at any moment. She put herself at risk to prove that to Clem - although in a really dumb way, I think her intentions were good. Kenny as he was dying, even says that Clem did the right thing and that he was asking for it.
Kenny told Jane that nobody cared about her, that's pretty fucking cold in my book. Yes Jane insulting his family and eye was cold as well b… moreut Kenny did just as bad.
Jane gave Clem a fuck ton of survival tips as well as saved her ass a few times, she killed Vitali to save the group and she risks her life to save Clem if she falls through the ice, Jane also came back for Clem which shows she cares. Meanwhile Kenny went all Carver and started to beat Arvo when he was already tied up and in bad shape and he through him to the ground multiple times just because he was mad, not to mention all of the racist comments he had. Fuck Kenny.
Yeah, keeping a politically correct language at all times is very important in a zombie apocalypse.
Kenny was best friends with a black guy and racially ambiguous Clementine, and cared for a black baby like he was his own, but somehow he is still suspicious because sometimes he let slip "offensive" words. Wow
Kenny told Jane that nobody cared about her, that's pretty fucking cold in my book. Yes Jane insulting his family and eye was cold as well b… moreut Kenny did just as bad.
Jane gave Clem a fuck ton of survival tips as well as saved her ass a few times, she killed Vitali to save the group and she risks her life to save Clem if she falls through the ice, Jane also came back for Clem which shows she cares. Meanwhile Kenny went all Carver and started to beat Arvo when he was already tied up and in bad shape and he through him to the ground multiple times just because he was mad, not to mention all of the racist comments he had. Fuck Kenny.
no, kenny didn't know that. he's just a violent psycho who refused to listen. even if he was lying, kenny is was too angry and is too stupid to listen to anything anyone says.
self defense? do you know what that means? because throwing the first punch doesn't mean self defense. you act like jane is the only one who insulted the other. kenny told her no one liked her and such, kenny deserved to be shot. he's too dangerous.
Kenny was all self-defense...so don't give me that crap....jane clearly tried pushing his buttons...talking shit about his dead family and girlfriend...jane had no class and deserved what she got.
Really, I do not understand all the Jane hate? The baby was in a car, safe and she felt confident she could handle Kenny. Keep in mind tha… moret Jane was trying to prove something to Clementine. Kenny was turning into another Carver, he even admitted he lost himself if you shoot him. There is no way that I can trust someone who beats on an innocent man (Arvo) and feels justified.
Remember why Bonnie and Mike were leaving, they feared for their lives with Kenny. The man was broken and I would have been afraid for Clementine if she stayed with him.
Jane was right about Kenny. I tried not to lose the message in the method. He was starting to break, and he was running everyone off that came across him. It's sad that it came to what it came to, but I felt right because I knew he would be at peace. Jane is an...interesting choice as Clem's guardian. I only brought her along because I felt Clem being completely alone would not bode well. Going with Kenny probably brought about the best outcome, but my gut feeling was that Jane was a more suitable person for Clem to go with.
Really, I do not understand all the Jane hate? The baby was in a car, safe and she felt confident she could handle Kenny. Keep in mind tha… moret Jane was trying to prove something to Clementine. Kenny was turning into another Carver, he even admitted he lost himself if you shoot him. There is no way that I can trust someone who beats on an innocent man (Arvo) and feels justified.
Remember why Bonnie and Mike were leaving, they feared for their lives with Kenny. The man was broken and I would have been afraid for Clementine if she stayed with him.
Comments
Look guys, Shaundi is back after months of lurking in a cave.
Lilly was too. Her paranoia was because she was tried to protect the group because someone was giving their supplies away. Jane came back, didn't she? I think it's cool how she trusts people because Clem was showing her how to be trustful.
I'm not convinced Kenny cares about Clementine. Well, maybe he does. Just in a really FUNNY way. Can you imagine if Kenny had gone to hotel to save Clem from the stranger? Just straight to violence. No talking it over like Lee did. No trying to see why the stranger would even kidnap Clem in the first place.
After all, if Jane does care! She came back, didn't she?
But Lilly was right about Ben..
She had a very powerful bullshit detector.
But she didn't base any of her accusations of Carley, she just snapped at the first person she disliked, in fact, she was probably jealous of her. And sadly Jane would most likely abandon Clem all the same if the both are pushed to a corner, like she did to her sister.
Yeah, it would probably be violence and done with it, but the ends justify the means.
All Lilly did was throw accusations, nothing more. If her bullshit detector was so powerful, why didn't she detect any bullshit from Ben went she was hassling Carley?
Jane's sister wanted to die. Jane tried and tried to save her, but she pushed her through hell. Clementine, wants to live. So, Jane would not leave Clem behind.
She was hassling Carley because Carley was defending Ben..
I felt pretty abandoned in the truck.
Kenny was right.
Kenny is always right.
You know that's not true, Jane would leave anyone behind for her survival.
And yes, she did push her through hell, but she also gave up and stopped halfway through, to save her own skin, if she really wanted her sister to live that much she should've helped her no matter what she thinks.
Then model swap it.
Oh wait...there's more...
I can't do this alone...okay? Is that what YOU wanted to hear!
(?) Clementine makes a disgusting face while walking away from Jane
I didn't get the impression that she pretended to kill the baby. She walked in empty handed, and I don't think she said she killed him, or maybe I'm deaf. She was in a car accident and in a blizzard full of walkers, so I figured he just didn't make it. I basically sided with Kenny throughout the entire series, but at the point of him attempting to murder a friend over something she couldn't control, that was basically it for me. I ended up shooting Kenny. Once it was confirmed that the baby was still alive I still didn't regret my decision.
No she was accusing Carley, why don't you play the game again.
Making an entire group of people a punchline is never good comedy.
It was reckless, but she proved her point. Kenny trying to kill her over what she said was an accident is going too far, and he is the type of person that always has to have his way. Jane sees Clem as a younger sister I think, and that's why she is so protective.
I think Clem will be safer with Jane than with Kenny
EXACTLY. Thought. No evidence. Jane kept saying it was an accident. He had NO right to attack her. Jane did what she hoped for, to show Clem what a monster Kenny is when he gets into a rage. If there's no one else around, it will be Clementine he attacks next time.
Indeed she didn't, Jane is at fault too. But that doesn't make her the only one who did wrong.
I take the logical paths with Clem, insomuch as Telltale 'allows' you to do so (which isn't much). That said, initially I DID shoot Kenny because his spiral of instability had become dangerous, but when Jane revealed her plan to show Kenny was a psychopath that needed to be put down it simply lacked sound, REASONED logic to the point of being a sociopathic decision. She absolutely DID intend to fight Kenny to the death, regardless of what any of you apologizers say. She refused repeated attempts to diffuse the situation, run away, or in any way reveal her ruse right up to the end, hoping all the while that Clementine would leap to her support and kill him. This is unbalanced and dangerous thinking -- and worse than that -- she would gladly make a killer of Clementine to prove a point, something Kenny has never done. Meanwhile, for Kenny this was simply the last straw in a long line of fuck-ups and he snapped. His behavior wasn't right, but in THIS instance his behavior was more sensible than Jane's given his history. She knew what he would do and CREATED a narrative to push him to the point of proving it, all so Clementine would turn against him.
In my case, it failed. I reloaded my save and refused to pick up the gun. She killed herself, in all honesty.
Whats not to excuse again? She didn't exploit a child, she was most likely sheltering it in the car (in a violent snow storm, probably obscured and relatively safe from walkers). She then heard Clem call out to her and probably made up her mind about what she had to do to convince Clem (who she has been trying to convince all episode, but we're never given the chance to actually believe her). The baby was as safe and warm as it was going to get at that point. No more harm to the child. This Kenny situation needs to be dealt with. He throws fits and is unproductive, but Clem keeps making excuses for his actions, and can't be expected to keep reeling him in, especially as young as she still is. Keeping up with Kenny's madness is exhausting.
I know you're not excusing either character, but Jane's actions aren't as monstrous as Kenny's. She wasn't really so much lying to them as testing them. You know, like the still skeptical loner she is in this dire situation. Kenny flew off the handle, as she knew he would, and violently attacked her, even though she tried to appease Clem and offer not to fight Kenny but rather talk with him. He opted to, once again, not listen to what anybody is saying and get lost in his emotions and misplaced blame.
She's not a monster for keeping the baby out of the storm as much as possible while she dealt with a difficult situation between a someone she's starting to grow attached to, and a violent, unreasonable insane person. She's not a lying whore because she needed to test, as much for herself as for Clem, that people could be trustworthy. But she knew how Kenny was going to react, and she knew she was going to have to eventually defend herself. Things escalated, Kenny keeps attacking and refuses to listen to reason, even from a pleading Clementine, until he gets the upper hand is content with killing the only person he can blame other than himself. Because he is an irrational asshole. Have I mentioned that in this post?
Yeah, Jane was lucky Clem was there, but in her defense, she wouldn't even be in that position if Clem wasn't.
I think my pronouns are starting to get wonky now, and this piece is running a bit long, so I think I'll stop here. My point is, While both characters wanted to change the situation in their favor, who wouldn't have? This situation was set to explode anyway. And Jane's actions, while not completely irrefutable, or maybe a little irrational, do not compare to Kenny's ongoing, destructive behavior. And she apparently needed to convince the loyalty railroaded Clementine.
Well both had lost their minds at this point and you could see the fight coming from all the squabbling in the car. For me it pretty much boiled down to saving the person you were closest to. That was Kenny for me.
In the car for a second i actually believed that Jane and Kenny could get along but then she started to insult Kenny so hard like for no reason.. It was a pretty ugly arguement.
"why would anyone love you?" - she said.. Wow.. just wow.. the same goes for her..
she said it was an accident, Kenny didn't listen. he never does
Kenny was all self-defense...so don't give me that crap....jane clearly tried pushing his buttons...talking shit about his dead family and girlfriend...jane had no class and deserved what she got.
[removed]
it was a funny joke
She was lying. Just proves Kenny knew she was full of shit and was right.
Really, I do not understand all the Jane hate? The baby was in a car, safe and she felt confident she could handle Kenny. Keep in mind that Jane was trying to prove something to Clementine. Kenny was turning into another Carver, he even admitted he lost himself if you shoot him. There is no way that I can trust someone who beats on an innocent man (Arvo) and feels justified.
Remember why Bonnie and Mike were leaving, they feared for their lives with Kenny. The man was broken and I would have been afraid for Clementine if she stayed with him.
oh yes the good guy that smashed an eleven year old girl in the face with an ak47
Thank you someone understands. The fact that Kenny himself admits he was getting out of control even proves Jane's point further. Mike and Bonnie's betrayal was due because of him. I don't see why people can't understand this.
I personally really like Jane. She saw from the beginning how dysfunctional the group was and warned Clem. In the end, it turned out she was right. Look at what Mike and Bonnie ended up doing. She also saw that Kenny was too far gone and was liable to snap at any moment. She put herself at risk to prove that to Clem - although in a really dumb way, I think her intentions were good. Kenny as he was dying, even says that Clem did the right thing and that he was asking for it.
[O.G.] Martin: i just read this
[O.G.] Martin: Please, Kenny's the kind of guy that would beat the fuck out of the water and not save his drowning child.
awat: lmao
awat: i think he'd save the child while drowning and trying to stab the water at the same time
[O.G.] Martin: no he would be too busy calling it a shitbird and punching it while his child is drowning
[O.G.] Martin: then he'd find his child dead
[O.G.] Martin: and beat the shit out of the water more
awat: then he'd find out his child was in a car all along and he didn't have to kill the water
Myeah, saying nobody cares about you is just as bad as insulting someones dead family and girlfriend...
/sarcasm
Yeah, keeping a politically correct language at all times is very important in a zombie apocalypse.
Kenny was best friends with a black guy and racially ambiguous Clementine, and cared for a black baby like he was his own, but somehow he is still suspicious because sometimes he let slip "offensive" words. Wow
no, kenny didn't know that. he's just a violent psycho who refused to listen. even if he was lying, kenny is was too angry and is too stupid to listen to anything anyone says.
self defense? do you know what that means? because throwing the first punch doesn't mean self defense. you act like jane is the only one who insulted the other. kenny told her no one liked her and such, kenny deserved to be shot. he's too dangerous.
The window of the car was open. There were walkers nearby. The baby could as easily have died.
Jane was right about Kenny. I tried not to lose the message in the method. He was starting to break, and he was running everyone off that came across him. It's sad that it came to what it came to, but I felt right because I knew he would be at peace. Jane is an...interesting choice as Clem's guardian. I only brought her along because I felt Clem being completely alone would not bode well. Going with Kenny probably brought about the best outcome, but my gut feeling was that Jane was a more suitable person for Clem to go with.
Arvo was hardly innocent.
Fuck Jane why the hell did she hide the baby.... I'm glad Kenny killed her.