Guys, as much as I liked him and pitied him in the end, Luke is dead, very dead.. He didn't deserve to die, and no way in hell did he deserve to die like that. A quick, painful death was the least that Luke deserved.
That last sentence was ambiguous: I'm not complaining about how the writers decided to kill him, I'm just saying that a person as kind and good-willed as Luke shouldn't suffer so much (yes, the sensation of drowning is awful).
He had to die so the plot could go on: If he'd lived, most of the shit that happened wouldn't have, he would've somehow prevented the group from falling apart, and if the shit that happened still happened, it would feel very out of context and out of character for Luke not to try and stop it, so TellTale decided to kill him off, and I don't blame them one bit.
This is not a rant: I hate that he is dead, but I loved the impact his death had in the story. It felt kind of random, yes, but definitely not Nick's death level of randomness. THIS time we can safely assume the death was indeed supposed to make us feel guilty (especially if you didn't help him) and, most important, powerless: in either case, you put so much effort into trying to save him but in the end you just can't impede his death, there's nothing that you, as a human being, can do to help poor Luke, who's either being dragged to his death, completely desperate and hopeless or a frozen, lifeless body slowly sinking; you get to witness one of these gruesome scenes no matter what. We all knew as soon as Clem is pulled out of the lake that we would never get to see Luke again, he who had done so much for everyone and who had been so kind toward Clementine and been the pillar of strength of the cabin group, was now either dead or undead in the bottom of a cold lake. He, who we had finally got to know better as a person, not just a survivor. And without him being able to say goodbye.
Well, I don't hold out much hope either really. And don't take this seriously, but if you really want to know, this study says, "Conversely,… more protecting the brain from hypoxic injury (and thus a favorable neurologic recovery) following cold-water submersion can be favorably modified by the co-existence of hypothermia. The protective effects of safe usage of hypothermic without neurologic damage is multifaceted and influenced by age, time, temperature and intracellular pH, metabolic rate, biochemical changes, high-energy storage depots, as well as institution of rewarming techniques....A child who appears asystolic, apneic, and with absence of central nervous system activity after cold-water submersion, requiring intensive resuscitative efforts, may have a favorable outcome."
Basically it's saying, "Having hypothermia can help protect the brain from losing oxygen following cold-water drowning, and thus this can help the person's brain to rec… [view original content]
He doesn't. They're all the exact same models from Season One. As a matter of fact, there's a little error on Katjaa's model since she doesn't have that wound on her head.
Ben definitely does, you have to look carefully, but you can see brown on his face where the blood would have dried. Unless it only shows up if Kenny shoots him, since I don't think he always does in Episode 5.
Hold the phone. Okay you're entitled to your opinions, but don't say "...for someone like me who is a writer and for long as she can remember has always been hooked on series or games for their stories and analysing things to the extreme, it really does feels like was rewritten".
I don't care if you're a writer, builder, game developer, coffee shop worker (Luke), etc. Don't try and use you being a writer as a way to make your opinion or thought that the episode was re-written more valid.
I loved this episode, and I found the Pizza and Ice Cream decision to be very hard, since I was trying to do the "moral"/"good" thing. I think the only episodes that can compete with this one are "No Time Left" and "A House Divided".
I think Jane was the only one that could have brought that out in Kenny. She was cold and calculating; ultimately an irrational manipulator. Kenny and Luke had the standard leader/followee dynamic. I don't see anything there that would have brought out recklessness in Kenny. What would they have fought to the death over?
Who gives a s**t if you gonna buy Season 3 or not ? The game concept is to make tough choices. If you didn't know that when you started to play the game , then it's your fault. The game is pretty awsome and Telltale are the BEST of making such games and people love them. Stop crying rivers alredy, it's just a game.
There's actually an audio file of Luke gasping after being pulled out of the ice, not sure why Telltale changed it, most likely because lots of fans predicted the Kenny/Luke decision already.
I don't think I'll get the season pass right away for Season 3. This season was hit and miss for me, and the games just work a lot better for me when I can play through them all the way right away. I'm doing another playthrough right now, and I'm only now realizing how interesting a character Nick was, and I like Luke a lot more. Having months between episodes really messed with my emotional attachments.
That said, there are a few things that would make me not want to play Season 3. I'll sit back and see if they choose to do those things.
I felt that some of the deaths in Season Two didn't have a huge impact as they were intended to be (especially Nick), but other than that I really enjoyed Season Two.
Also, you need predictability (Kenny vs. Luke) for unpredictability (Kenny vs. Jane) to work.
Isnt it better to not know what will happen? I didnt read the comics but somebody told me they are different because everything getting worse and a lot of people die. Makes it i little different. What i liked more about S1 was the sad ending. It was to much a "happy end" in S2. But i really liked Jane and i thought she is the choice.
an absolute masterpiece of a finale of a fantastic season 2. this game series is such an emotional rollercoaster of a ride, it has everything. a well written story thanks to some very intelligent and imaginative minds. these same minds created characters that we feel for. characters that we like, do not like or simply don't care about. this tell tale game has moved me like no other game before. I actually dislike some characters who have come and/or gone. I find my self caring for the wellbeing of other characters. I wonder about those who have parted ways and hoping that they are safe. these are human feelings for people who don't even exist!!! maybe I should get out more lol. seriously though, its been superb so far
-People were complaining that the pizza vs ice-cream choice was too obvious to be Luke vs. Kenny and they would be disappointed with the predictable writing if it was
-There is a plot-twist meaning the pizza vs ice-cream choice isn't Luke vs Kenny
-People complain the pizza vs ice-cream choice wasn't as expected.
lolk.
Also it is the walking dead, and anyone can die, you can't be annoyed if your favorite character dies and call it horrible writing when they do, I get that luke had potential, but this game is based around the zombie apocalypse, it is highly likely that everyone will die at some point regardless of whether their character "has potential" or not. If you want every character to get the best character development they possibly can get then you are playing the wrong game in my opinion.
Is it even possible? Does Luke have dialogue that would have fit that situation. Because I honestly don't see him doing what Jane did. If Luke wanted Clem to realize how dangerous Kenny has become, he would only try to talk to her about it. I can't picture him stooping so low as to make Kenny believe that AJ died in order to provoke him into a fight. It would be so out of character. If you can make it work with Luke still being in character, then I will commend you.
BTW, I really did love your "Nick Survives Episode 4" video.
I just knew this would happen the moment i finished the game and went on the forums,people would complain and talk about the bad stuff...Episode 5 is now my favourite,everything about it broke my heart...i didn't cry at the end.
[SPOILER ALERT]
I went with Kenny and AJ,i didn't enter Wellington...i couldn't
Having to choose Between Kenny and Jane Broke my heart.
[SPOILER ENDING]
Overall this Episode was amazing,with all the shit that went down.
I am excited for Season 3 and i think Telltale is doing a good Job =')
....
I feel empty inside now ;_;
Ok hang on. That's really not fair, and you're being somewhat acerbic.
First off, Lilacsbloom never once said that her opinion was "more valid" than anybody's; she stated this quite a few times.
Second, may I ask, what do you do as a profession? Even if you're still in school, don't you think you have the right to comment on and critique your fellow students' work? The same goes for any hobbies you're really passionate about. If you're a professional, of course it's definitely helpful (though maybe not integral) to constructively criticize those who aren't doing the best job. If you're a student or not a pro yet, you should be commenting, discussing, and analyzing the professionals'/professors' work, as that's how you can learn yourself. TT's writing isn't perfect, and we all have the right to point that out. But some of us may have more background in that than others. E.g. Don't you think professional food critics or movie critics have a more thought-out opinion than others because they spend so much more time doing it and are more passionate about it? Similarly, young aspiring chefs and directors also can have a more defined opinion about food and movies than people who are say, accountants. But this still doesn't mean the professionals are any more right than you though. Again, Lilacsbloom has already indicated that she does NOT think she's more "right" than you or anyone.
All of you, please don't be so limited. You seem very mean-spirited when you are.
Hold the phone. Okay you're entitled to your opinions, but don't say "...for someone like me who is a writer and for long as she can remembe… morer has always been hooked on series or games for their stories and analysing things to the extreme, it really does feels like was rewritten".
I don't care if you're a writer, builder, game developer, coffee shop worker (Luke), etc. Don't try and use you being a writer as a way to make your opinion or thought that the episode was re-written more valid.
But these aren't "little details" that were changed or are being picked at. These are vast arcs that were built through the whole season that have completely been wiped or edited. This was the entire season's climax that seemed to be changed.
No it wasnt poor writing. They wanted to get away from Kenny since they didnt get along with him. Mike also shows empathy towards Arvo. It was a very good plot twist.
Luke's death stunk, and Bonnie and Mike's betrayal just felt like poor writing on Telltale's part to be honest. The episode was still enjoyable though, but not a fan of how some things turned out.
Fortunately there aren't too many negative posts about this episode in the forums, lots of Jane vs Kenny discussions which are getting a bit annoying. I enjoyed this episode I think it was their best one yet. In comparison to episode 5 episode 4 seems mediocre. I think this episode did the characters more justice. Although Luke died he was portrayed properly and depending on your choice went down like a champ. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion but even by the standards of a nitpicky reviewer this was great. A lot of people just wanted to dislike S2 and they still loved no going back. Season 1 had lots of problems too and even though S2 didn't have a very unified vision I still think it was great overall.
And there's so many rehashed games out there that we are definitely going to purchase a 25$ purchase of TWD S3 is a steal. I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy it but I along with the majority were truly moved by the episode and are excited for S3. Cheers!
You know its probably good they you don't feel like buying Season 3 because it sounds like you're saying this episode broke you. Which means the writers did their job.
Thank you for your comment; I agree with some of it. Please remember I wrote, "Well, I don't hold out much hope either really. And don't take this seriously...." This is a discussion forum; I'm just speculating and presenting all the scenarios because that's the whole reason we come here, even if some of the scenarios are highly unlikely.
I don't agree that Luke had to die for the story to move on. There could have been any number of things that could've been done to move the plot forward with Luke still there; they didn't have to stick with the plot we had after the ice broke at all.
And to everything you said in your last paragraph, I pretty much agree on everything TT was trying to get us to feel. Luke's death was very tragic.
Guys, as much as I liked him and pitied him in the end, Luke is dead, very dead.. He didn't deserve to die, and no way in hell did he deserv… moree to die like that. A quick, painful death was the least that Luke deserved.
That last sentence was ambiguous: I'm not complaining about how the writers decided to kill him, I'm just saying that a person as kind and good-willed as Luke shouldn't suffer so much (yes, the sensation of drowning is awful).
He had to die so the plot could go on: If he'd lived, most of the shit that happened wouldn't have, he would've somehow prevented the group from falling apart, and if the shit that happened still happened, it would feel very out of context and out of character for Luke not to try and stop it, so TellTale decided to kill him off, and I don't blame them one bit.
This is not a rant: I hate that he is dead, but I loved the impact his death had in the story. It felt kind of random, yes, but definitely n… [view original content]
Okay, I 100000% respect you and your opinion and decision. I salute you on being brave enough to even voice something so far left on what has turned into a man eat man forums.
I was a huge Luke fan. Huge. So I was obviously in bits when he died. But I will keep playing as long as this game includes Clementine. The should rename it The Walking Clementine, because if she aint in it, neither is my heart (or money).
I just want to say some things that may change your mind or at least give you some food for thought.
This world, the world of the walkers, is CRAZY. No one is safe, Lee wasn't safe. This is the only most realistic view of this world. Say what you will. This world had to be depicted this way. People had to die. Yes, some people may die by drowning, but that's just it, this is a world full of risks and as a player we have GOT to accept that to enjoy the game.
Also, I learned being on these forums, theorising, it just creates expectations. And when the episode comes out and those expectations aren't met, people get upset. I wasn't on here a lot between 204 and 205 and this episode has turned out to be my most favourite one yet.
I ain't here to try and tell you what to do with your life, just wanted to create some discussion!
Is it even possible? Does Luke have dialogue that would have fit that situation. Because I honestly don't see him doing what Jane did. If Lu… moreke wanted Clem to realize how dangerous Kenny has become, he would only try to talk to her about it. I can't picture him stooping so low as to make Kenny believe that AJ died in order to provoke him into a fight. It would be so out of character. If you can make it work with Luke still being in character, then I will commend you.
BTW, I really did love your "Nick Survives Episode 4" video.
I didn't love episode 5, but I enjoyed it and thought it was a step in the right direction in some places, seriously though, season 2 apologists need to get a grip and be more open to criticism.
Fortunately there aren't too many negative posts about this episode in the forums, lots of Jane vs Kenny discussions which are getting a bit… more annoying. I enjoyed this episode I think it was their best one yet. In comparison to episode 5 episode 4 seems mediocre. I think this episode did the characters more justice. Although Luke died he was portrayed properly and depending on your choice went down like a champ. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion but even by the standards of a nitpicky reviewer this was great. A lot of people just wanted to dislike S2 and they still loved no going back. Season 1 had lots of problems too and even though S2 didn't have a very unified vision I still think it was great overall.
And there's so many rehashed games out there that we are definitely going to purchase a 25$ purchase of TWD S3 is a steal. I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy it but I along with the majority were truly moved by the episode and are excited for S3. Cheers!
Comments
that's why it's so hard to get so much attached to the fictional character you love ;____; me too i'm not gonna play season 3 .... huhuhu ;___;
Okay. I'm definitely getting season 3 though.
TEAM JANE
If you think this episode sucks then you have impossible standards.
Guys, as much as I liked him and pitied him in the end, Luke is dead, very dead.. He didn't deserve to die, and no way in hell did he deserve to die like that. A quick, painful death was the least that Luke deserved.
That last sentence was ambiguous: I'm not complaining about how the writers decided to kill him, I'm just saying that a person as kind and good-willed as Luke shouldn't suffer so much (yes, the sensation of drowning is awful).
He had to die so the plot could go on: If he'd lived, most of the shit that happened wouldn't have, he would've somehow prevented the group from falling apart, and if the shit that happened still happened, it would feel very out of context and out of character for Luke not to try and stop it, so TellTale decided to kill him off, and I don't blame them one bit.
This is not a rant: I hate that he is dead, but I loved the impact his death had in the story. It felt kind of random, yes, but definitely not Nick's death level of randomness. THIS time we can safely assume the death was indeed supposed to make us feel guilty (especially if you didn't help him) and, most important, powerless: in either case, you put so much effort into trying to save him but in the end you just can't impede his death, there's nothing that you, as a human being, can do to help poor Luke, who's either being dragged to his death, completely desperate and hopeless or a frozen, lifeless body slowly sinking; you get to witness one of these gruesome scenes no matter what. We all knew as soon as Clem is pulled out of the lake that we would never get to see Luke again, he who had done so much for everyone and who had been so kind toward Clementine and been the pillar of strength of the cabin group, was now either dead or undead in the bottom of a cold lake. He, who we had finally got to know better as a person, not just a survivor. And without him being able to say goodbye.
He doesn't. They're all the exact same models from Season One. As a matter of fact, there's a little error on Katjaa's model since she doesn't have that wound on her head.
Either way, I don't see any bullet holes on Ben.
nitpicking at the dumbest things is LAME
Hold the phone. Okay you're entitled to your opinions, but don't say "...for someone like me who is a writer and for long as she can remember has always been hooked on series or games for their stories and analysing things to the extreme, it really does feels like was rewritten".
I don't care if you're a writer, builder, game developer, coffee shop worker (Luke), etc. Don't try and use you being a writer as a way to make your opinion or thought that the episode was re-written more valid.
I loved this episode, and I found the Pizza and Ice Cream decision to be very hard, since I was trying to do the "moral"/"good" thing. I think the only episodes that can compete with this one are "No Time Left" and "A House Divided".
I think Jane was the only one that could have brought that out in Kenny. She was cold and calculating; ultimately an irrational manipulator. Kenny and Luke had the standard leader/followee dynamic. I don't see anything there that would have brought out recklessness in Kenny. What would they have fought to the death over?
[removed]
Who gives a s**t if you gonna buy Season 3 or not ? The game concept is to make tough choices. If you didn't know that when you started to play the game , then it's your fault. The game is pretty awsome and Telltale are the BEST of making such games and people love them. Stop crying rivers alredy, it's just a game.
There's actually an audio file of Luke gasping after being pulled out of the ice, not sure why Telltale changed it, most likely because lots of fans predicted the Kenny/Luke decision already.
Really wish Jane/Bonnie died instead of Luke :c
http://buricko.tumblr.com/post/95871272944/so-theres-an-audio-file-of-luke-being-pulled
Ok have fun
Wrong thread,lol.
I wont buy season 3... 1 year later..... buys it
I don't think I'll get the season pass right away for Season 3. This season was hit and miss for me, and the games just work a lot better for me when I can play through them all the way right away. I'm doing another playthrough right now, and I'm only now realizing how interesting a character Nick was, and I like Luke a lot more. Having months between episodes really messed with my emotional attachments.
That said, there are a few things that would make me not want to play Season 3. I'll sit back and see if they choose to do those things.
I felt that some of the deaths in Season Two didn't have a huge impact as they were intended to be (especially Nick), but other than that I really enjoyed Season Two.
Also, you need predictability (Kenny vs. Luke) for unpredictability (Kenny vs. Jane) to work.
Isnt it better to not know what will happen? I didnt read the comics but somebody told me they are different because everything getting worse and a lot of people die. Makes it i little different. What i liked more about S1 was the sad ending. It was to much a "happy end" in S2. But i really liked Jane and i thought she is the choice.
We both know that you're not literally talking about shit here.
an absolute masterpiece of a finale of a fantastic season 2. this game series is such an emotional rollercoaster of a ride, it has everything. a well written story thanks to some very intelligent and imaginative minds. these same minds created characters that we feel for. characters that we like, do not like or simply don't care about. this tell tale game has moved me like no other game before. I actually dislike some characters who have come and/or gone. I find my self caring for the wellbeing of other characters. I wonder about those who have parted ways and hoping that they are safe. these are human feelings for people who don't even exist!!! maybe I should get out more lol. seriously though, its been superb so far
I completely disagree with mostly everything you said.
erm...disagree with who? me?
-People were complaining that the pizza vs ice-cream choice was too obvious to be Luke vs. Kenny and they would be disappointed with the predictable writing if it was
-There is a plot-twist meaning the pizza vs ice-cream choice isn't Luke vs Kenny
-People complain the pizza vs ice-cream choice wasn't as expected.
lolk.
Also it is the walking dead, and anyone can die, you can't be annoyed if your favorite character dies and call it horrible writing when they do, I get that luke had potential, but this game is based around the zombie apocalypse, it is highly likely that everyone will die at some point regardless of whether their character "has potential" or not. If you want every character to get the best character development they possibly can get then you are playing the wrong game in my opinion.
As the guy who made "Nick Survives Episode 4", I'm gonna fix TTG's mistakes (again) with the Jane/Kenny thing.
Is it even possible? Does Luke have dialogue that would have fit that situation. Because I honestly don't see him doing what Jane did. If Luke wanted Clem to realize how dangerous Kenny has become, he would only try to talk to her about it. I can't picture him stooping so low as to make Kenny believe that AJ died in order to provoke him into a fight. It would be so out of character. If you can make it work with Luke still being in character, then I will commend you.
BTW, I really did love your "Nick Survives Episode 4" video.
I just knew this would happen the moment i finished the game and went on the forums,people would complain and talk about the bad stuff...Episode 5 is now my favourite,everything about it broke my heart...i didn't cry at the end.
[SPOILER ALERT]
I went with Kenny and AJ,i didn't enter Wellington...i couldn't
Having to choose Between Kenny and Jane Broke my heart.
[SPOILER ENDING]
Overall this Episode was amazing,with all the shit that went down.
I am excited for Season 3 and i think Telltale is doing a good Job =')
....
I feel empty inside now ;_;
Ok hang on. That's really not fair, and you're being somewhat acerbic.
First off, Lilacsbloom never once said that her opinion was "more valid" than anybody's; she stated this quite a few times.
Second, may I ask, what do you do as a profession? Even if you're still in school, don't you think you have the right to comment on and critique your fellow students' work? The same goes for any hobbies you're really passionate about. If you're a professional, of course it's definitely helpful (though maybe not integral) to constructively criticize those who aren't doing the best job. If you're a student or not a pro yet, you should be commenting, discussing, and analyzing the professionals'/professors' work, as that's how you can learn yourself. TT's writing isn't perfect, and we all have the right to point that out. But some of us may have more background in that than others. E.g. Don't you think professional food critics or movie critics have a more thought-out opinion than others because they spend so much more time doing it and are more passionate about it? Similarly, young aspiring chefs and directors also can have a more defined opinion about food and movies than people who are say, accountants. But this still doesn't mean the professionals are any more right than you though. Again, Lilacsbloom has already indicated that she does NOT think she's more "right" than you or anyone.
All of you, please don't be so limited. You seem very mean-spirited when you are.
But these aren't "little details" that were changed or are being picked at. These are vast arcs that were built through the whole season that have completely been wiped or edited. This was the entire season's climax that seemed to be changed.
No it wasnt poor writing. They wanted to get away from Kenny since they didnt get along with him. Mike also shows empathy towards Arvo. It was a very good plot twist.
Fortunately there aren't too many negative posts about this episode in the forums, lots of Jane vs Kenny discussions which are getting a bit annoying. I enjoyed this episode I think it was their best one yet. In comparison to episode 5 episode 4 seems mediocre. I think this episode did the characters more justice. Although Luke died he was portrayed properly and depending on your choice went down like a champ. Now everyone is entitled to their opinion but even by the standards of a nitpicky reviewer this was great. A lot of people just wanted to dislike S2 and they still loved no going back. Season 1 had lots of problems too and even though S2 didn't have a very unified vision I still think it was great overall.
And there's so many rehashed games out there that we are definitely going to purchase a 25$ purchase of TWD S3 is a steal. I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy it but I along with the majority were truly moved by the episode and are excited for S3. Cheers!
i think this is gonna happen if kenny survives s2 he dies in s3 if jane surives s2 she dies in s3
But Season 1 ending was waay sadder to me MUCH MUCH MUCH More sadder
You know its probably good they you don't feel like buying Season 3 because it sounds like you're saying this episode broke you. Which means the writers did their job.
Jane and Bonnie, my least favorite characters in anything ever.
Thank you for your comment; I agree with some of it. Please remember I wrote, "Well, I don't hold out much hope either really. And don't take this seriously...." This is a discussion forum; I'm just speculating and presenting all the scenarios because that's the whole reason we come here, even if some of the scenarios are highly unlikely.
I don't agree that Luke had to die for the story to move on. There could have been any number of things that could've been done to move the plot forward with Luke still there; they didn't have to stick with the plot we had after the ice broke at all.
And to everything you said in your last paragraph, I pretty much agree on everything TT was trying to get us to feel. Luke's death was very tragic.
Okay, I 100000% respect you and your opinion and decision. I salute you on being brave enough to even voice something so far left on what has turned into a man eat man forums.
I was a huge Luke fan. Huge. So I was obviously in bits when he died. But I will keep playing as long as this game includes Clementine. The should rename it The Walking Clementine, because if she aint in it, neither is my heart (or money).
I just want to say some things that may change your mind or at least give you some food for thought.
This world, the world of the walkers, is CRAZY. No one is safe, Lee wasn't safe. This is the only most realistic view of this world. Say what you will. This world had to be depicted this way. People had to die. Yes, some people may die by drowning, but that's just it, this is a world full of risks and as a player we have GOT to accept that to enjoy the game.
Also, I learned being on these forums, theorising, it just creates expectations. And when the episode comes out and those expectations aren't met, people get upset. I wasn't on here a lot between 204 and 205 and this episode has turned out to be my most favourite one yet.
I ain't here to try and tell you what to do with your life, just wanted to create some discussion!
I'm not sure, but I'll try my best to get something that works, even if it is barely.
I didn't love episode 5, but I enjoyed it and thought it was a step in the right direction in some places, seriously though, season 2 apologists need to get a grip and be more open to criticism.