Going with Jane is the best/moral choice, no matter what you say.
The moment Jane joins the group, she was analyzing the state of the group and who could become a problem. She didn't plan to get attached to Clementine. but she did because she reminded her of her little sister that she couldn't save. Her reasoning for leaving the group the first time was because she knew that Kenny was a ticking time bomb, she knew there was no way that Clementine would leave him, so she left. She didn't want to be there when he snaps, and gets everyone killed, she didn't want to see Clementine die, so she just avoided the who scenario by leaving. Only reason why she came back was because she felt compelled that it was her duty to save Clementine from Kenny, to show her what he's really becoming. That's why she always trying to point out every little detail to Clementine about his stability, but never once did she make false accusations about him, without realizing his state, unlike Kenny where he just throws accusations after another without even knowing a thing about her. She never gave him a chance to know anything about her, she's a closed book, but Kenny is an open book and everyone knows what he is.
Jane was willing to risk her own life to save Clementine from him. Which pretty much negates Kenny's claim after the ending where you do let Kenny kill her where he said that she only cares about herself and when he said that "once AJ dies, what's the point of living after that?" "That's something Jane will never understand." Which she did, otherwise she wouldn't had came back in the group knowing what was going to happen. Also when Kenny said that she could have stopped the fight anytime by telling him that AJ is fine and it was all a hoax. NO WAY in hell he was going to believe a thing she says, Jane knows that, that's why even at the very end if you so let her die, she kept her dignity.
Kenny is a good guy, he's still is, he shows it at the ending at Wellington where he chooses to stay behind and let the kids in. He know's that he's unstable and unfit to protect them, that's why he tells you in the ending "I don't trust myself to protect you guys, not anymore", and at the ending where you shoot him and he tells you that "you made the right choice." He knows becoming a monster, but his pride refuses to let him admit it.
Jane is a good person, she has a difficult time trusting people, which is something you can't blame her for. In an zombie apocalyptic world like this, where people survived for this long, they couldn't had survived without killing at least one person. She's a realism and she knows how to adapt to that world, and doesn't let her emotions dictate her decisions.
People may argue that going to Wellington and leaving Kenny behind was the best choice, but people have to realize if Wellington is the goal to Clementine's destination, the story line in season 3 has to intertwine to sink the story sooner or later, so no matter where you choose, the verdict in season 3 will always be the same.
Literally impossible for you to prove me wrong otherwise, unless you can't interrupt story dialogue at all.
*****Edit*****
Just for those who don't know. I made the exact same post 1 hour prior to this one, called "Jane's Intentions", but it go no views and comments. So I changed the title to something people will feel compelled to comment and give their side of the argument. I also added the bit at the bottom, for those who don't like to read and scroll all the way down, just to get them to say their side to their opinion. So far I'm just getting Kenny fan boys, saying their points without even, referring back to the points I've covered, as if they didn't even read a thing and just wrote their irrelevant conclusions that I've already proven were incorrect. Which most of the times was completely illogical. I'm not saying that this is the "only" ending that you should pick, but in my opinion is the best.
Comments
And having a fight with kenny was gonna solve it? Nope.
I'm sorry, but if Clem murdering Kenny after an event designed by Jane to push Kenny beyond his boundary is morally the better choice, I'm going to disagree with that, and say that you're wrong.
Can people stop with this shit, like seriously.
No choice is definitely morally right. The Jane choice isn't, @LumpyBread, and the Kenny choice isn't, @CaeserMartinez and @Itchy_Tasty.
No choice is 'best' either. It depends how you play #yourclem.
For me, I agree with the OP that for MY clem it's the best option. But others are perfectly free to disagree with me, and I'm not going to tell you that believing differently to me is wrong.
you're way off with jane.... Jane wants clem as replacement of her dead sister. It was NEVER about SAVING clem from kenny.
You do know jane and kenny are EXACT opposite..like yin/yang...type.
If she wanted to leave kenny, why the hell did she go on the truck with kenny when she could have taken clem and left..like bonnie and mike and that stupid kid, ARVO?
When you said about jane not trusting anyone for survival...well...that's what kenny was doing to... beating ARVO up (even though it was harsh)..it was survival...
She never intended on Clementine to kill Kenny herself, but she just ended up in a position where she's going to get killed by Kenny because of Clementine trying to break up the fight. The game purposely did that for the feels, when you ultimately have to kill Kenny yourself, if you so choose the decision.
Kenny had a good run, he was a good guy, but he can't cope with trauma as well as other people. Which makes him dangerous, and detrimental to everyone.
killed them both.
He isn't 'wrong', it's just his opinion. He isn't specifically 'right', either.
However, at that specific time we don't know for absolute certain the event is designed by Jane. So we can't really take that into consideration about whether it's moral.
And then we get to the discussion about whether it's morally better to stop someone else from murdering, even if that means murdering them yourself.
Which never really has an answer. It's morally grey.
I agree with you in the sense that Kenny should have probably died (after all he went through, it would have probably been a blessing for him) and Clem should have ended up with Jane. Jane seriously needed someone, and I legitimately liked her. My problem was I didn't care for the way her and Clem ended up. If they had gone to Wellington together, I would have been fine. But the two options given for their ending don't appease me. I don't like the father of the new family, and I don't want Clem to end up in another defective group. But at the same time, I don't want to turn the family away because I don't want Clem to isolate herself. Lee wouldn't want her to stop caring about people. I wanted Clem to get through to Jane, not the other way around. I chose the Wellington ending because even though I didn't feel like Jane's death fit without Kenny also dying (kind of a "they doomed themselves" type of thing), I wanted Clem to end up in a safe place after all she went through. I wanted closure for her. And while I could have killed both Kenny and Jane, or have left Jane behind, I didn't like Clem going completely on her own either. I don't feel like she would be the type to isolate herself.
In turn arguably Kenny wants Clem as a replacement of his dead son.
Thinking about that kind of stuff will get us nowhere and is a silly avenue of thought to go down.
Beating Arvo up wasn't survival though, I disagree with you there. I think beating Arvo up accomplished nothing good.
Remember, it's the reason why Mike and Arvo left. If Kenny hadn't abused Arvo...well, let's just say a certain gunshot probably wouldn't have occurred.
There are lots of awesome things to say about Kenny in episode 5, such as his apologies and stuff. Beating up and abusing Arvo is NOT one of them. That is really, really bad.
not really...it was the baby that he saw as a replacement.
The right choice is the choice you made for YOUR Clementine, there is never a right or wrong, because in some peoples' eyes you make the right choices while in others' you make the wrong ones.
Only thing that made sense in what you wrote is that she wanted Clementine as your replacement sister, yes that's true. How can you say it was never about saving Clementine from Kenny, she wants her away FROM him, from the very start. She didn't leave with Mike, and Bonny because she still had to save Clementine. She can't take Clementine away from Kenny, that would make absolutely no sense, Clementine would just think she was kidnapped, without knowing the true nature of Kenny. Beating up Arvo was not about survival, it was his blood lust and unstable mind set. Jesus are we even playing the same game...
Umm...you don't think the fact that Kenny accidentally calls Clem 'Duck' in episode 2 gives evidence for that?
Like seriously, that's really as clear as it gets.
Very well said. I find either of those endings fine. There is neither a right or wrong choice in this situation.
About the argument "It's right to shoot Kenny because in his last breath he tells Clementine it was the right choice".
He says that because he doesn't want Clem to feel worse than she already does. That's how much he loves her.
When you ACTUALLY do what he wanted = go to Wellington, he's crying in gratitude and tells you over and over that you're doing the right thing.
Plus, in games where he dies, the part many people conveniently forget is that even after saying those words in the first place, he immediately adds that he thought that was what he wanted but now that it happens he's scared, confessing he is not ready to die now.
Clem will ALWAYS end up in a defective group. You don't get a group as big as Wellington without any disagreements inside.
It's the nature of humanity.
Personally, I like the fact that, if you let Jane decide whether to let in the family, she let's them in which is nice character development.
I particularly like the fact that Clem has someone her own age in Jane's ending, without losing someone she knows from before as she does if she goes into Wellington.
This.
true, even the creators of the game said that
"You don't just end it 'cause it's hard. You stick it out, and you help the folks you care about." ~ Kenny
Think of this way...Jane would of have to tell Clem to leave now with others and leave kenny..
Another thing...Jane has no right to tell clem to leave him....Clem already knew who kenny was...she was still cool with him regardless.
Beating arvo was about survival...he couldn't trust this kid after what they have gone through....the others were emotional people who thinks with emotions rather than using their brain.
If I was ARVO..and put you in the same situation...i'm sure you would probably do what bonnie and mike did...take the truck and run off.
the question is...are you even playing the same game..?
I already explain why he said you made the right choice. It's because he knows he's broken. He hints it very clearly at the ending where u end up at Wellington. He says "I don't trust myself to protect you guys, not anymore".
Well Honestly in my ending I left Wellington with Kenny and I just don't think Jane would risk her life for Clem like Lee, Or Kenny would....
I was gonna actually have a debate here, but I'm getting tired of these threads, so I'm just gonna pretend Kenny is God here....like usual.
Defiler! Deceiver and...defiler! You have returned Kenny's love and warmth with a bullet to our Holy Father! There is no place inside the gates of Wellington for you! I can only pray you see the error of your ways, and use the mystical "Rewind" button Kenny so graciously gave us on the 7th day to fix your sins. Allow Kenny's light to enter you, and fill your butt with love.
Is anyone truly 'ready to die'? Most people are always a little scared. When I reminded him of the fact that he'll see Katjaa and Duck again, he seemed to be quite content, which was nice
Also: if you want people to take your counterargument seriously, I would recommend replying to all their arguments and not just cherry picking the ones you have a response for.
Just a suggestion though, do as you will.
Jane vs Kenny is irrelevant. Whether you stay with them or not is whats important. Kill Kenny, leave Jane/ Let Jane die, leave Kenny. Saves Kenny/Jane's life but makes sure the baby isn't around someone like either of them.
I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS.what she did was wrong.end of story.you cant risk a life just to ruin another for no good reason.
That quote is irrelevant here really, unless you'[re tying to argue that both sides are justifiable, which is true.
Clem caring about Kenny is determinant. Clem caring about Jane is also determinant.
Jane has risked her life for Clementine, she stayed knowing what Kenny is, just to convince her to go with her. She left, because it was the easiest choice at episode 4. She came back, and even planned out a stupidly dangerous plan just to prove to Clementine what Kenny is, even if it meant that there's a very strong chance that one of them were going to die.
I like how people claim their opinion as fact.
Omg another Kenny vs Jane thread and only one of them is expressed as 100% right. wow how original and un-opinionated!
I wish they would merge these so I could toss them into the corner of where I couldnt give 2 fucks
Another Kenny v Jane thread
Well, picking her up from the water and running over a frozen lake that's already breaking up with her in her arms was basically risking her life for her, wasn't it?
The combined weight of them could have led to the ice cracking beneath her feet, but she did it anyway.
And besides, she ran TOWARDS a gunfight because she cares about Clem.
I know what you're saying it's just...the evidence to back it up isn't there. It feels more like what you want to believe than the truth,.
Both Kenny AND Jane put their lives on the line for Clem.
I only address the points that I see relevant.
i would probably leave jane in the house just like how jane wanted to leave sarah in the house so the walkers can get their meals on....
How contradicting of jane....first she says...leave sarah because we gotta be able to survive on our own...and now...she says...clem, let's leave him and together we can survival crap.
I like Patricia and her son, but the father seems off to me. I don't like how he treats his wife either. I guess I also thought the ending was anti-climactic. I didn't feel like Clem came a long way in her journey, and I don't understand her attitude with the kid in the end either. Maybe she's just afraid of getting close to him like with Sarah? It all seems somewhat hollow.
I was talking to Virgil, not you
The plan was stupid (I didn't shoot Kenny) I knew Jane was up to something , and I prefer a guy like him who is predictable (When it comes to lashing out) than Jane (To Me a person who would kill you while you sleep) I liked Jane but I felt Kenny would go the extra mile to protect Clem...
Dude, Jane runs over a frozen lake that's breaking up while carrying Clem, screaming that everyone needs to look after her.
I'd say that's pretty extra miley.
They do it everywhere on this damned forum.
It wasn't 'wrong end of story', as that is just your opinion. Lots of people think it was completely understandable.