Hey great topic.
I don't know if I would really draw parallels between Kenny/Rick Grimes apart from their need to protect their kin. Kenn… morey throughout the series has shown to be somewhat biast based on what he thinks is the correct choice, where as Rick (who also has his moments of selfishness), has shown the majority of his decisions are based on what would be the most positive outcome for the greater group. Lee would arguably be more aligned to Rick than Kenny is.
FYI - Assuming this is Graphic Novel Rick? I haven't seen the TV version of Walking dead, are they potrayed the same? is the TV show any good?
Joel is a closer match to Kenny, but even more of a reflection of Jane. They are both loners, self-serving and pretty much broken until they find their placebo's to fill the voids in their life e.g. Sarah/Ellie, Jamie/Clem. They both even end up lying in the end to get what they want (I'm actually quite shocked that everyone was dis… [view original content]
Well, I certainly wouldn't have killed the last brain surgeons in the US possibly. But this showed us that the game wasn't about what we wanted, it was about Joel's story and his redemption through coming to love Ellie like a daughter, and redeeming himself.
And that's exactly why Joel had to save her, saving Ellie then was a way of him actually being able to save his 'daughter'.
While it's not 100% justifiable what he did, I can understand where he's coming from.
And if I was in Joel's shoes, and went through everything I did, I still can't say what I would do exactly.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have tried to find a cure here but, Joel saw his daughter in Ellie, and wouldn't be able to deal with her loss. If you had a daughter, would you sacrifice her to save humanity?
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have tried to find a cure here but, Joel saw his daughter in Ellie, and wouldn't be able to deal with her loss. If you had a daughter, would you sacrifice her to save humanity?
I agree. Jane was ****ing stupid in that situation. Kenny had strived so hard to keep that baby alive. Jane has been known for her survivalist attitude, and not liking dead weights, and also hating Kenny's guts.
She has the baby for 10 minutes and comes back all like "lel i lost the baby it was an accident but im not going to say the specifics, im really sorry it was an accident, friends now teehee lel."
Joel possibly killed the last hope of humanity because he couldn't let go of Ellie. And yet I never, ever see anyone criticizing him for cho… moreosing family above all, and killing anyone that gets in-between them.
If it was Joel or Rick in the same situation, where someone told them they killed their kid, they WOULD have tried to kill them too.
Would you have the guts to come up to Joel or Rick and tell them you killed their kids? It's clear to me what they'd try to do to you.
I think that some players got upset because the protaginist they played with for the last 10+ hours wasn't the sterotypical redeeming hero build that is so common in gaming stories these days. Joel was human and flawed just like in RL, they dropped these hints through out the entire game, so yeah, that ending was perfect in my opinion.
Don't even think of comparing Kenny to the awesome Rick.
Rick would never have killed Jane, he would have maybe hit her or yelled but he … moredoesn't kill for fun or to satisfy anger management issues.
If anything Rick would have killed Kenny the moment he started going insane as he's a threat to everyone and causes the group to go to heck.
Also, Jane didn't say she killed the baby. She said it was an accident and the baby was gone. Stop trying to twist things, Kenny lover.
i bet you think we are talking about tv rick lol comic rick is very much like kenny in terms of when he gets mad tv rick is nothing compared to comic rick
It's not like Rick had a choice in the matter, Shane wasn't going to let the issue drop. Even if Rick managed to talk him down the issue was going to boil over at some point. Rick had to deal with the threat while he still had the chance.
After shooting Kenny and asking him "Why did you make me do this?" I remembered Rick telling Shane "Damn you for making me do this!"
Kenny is acutally more like Shane. Shane did brutal things to protect the group and it was his way or else.
Thats why rick put him down.
Rick in someways was wrong for killing shane to.
Well, I certainly wouldn't have killed the last brain surgeons in the US possibly. But this showed us that the game wasn't about what we wan… moreted, it was about Joel's story and his redemption through coming to love Ellie like a daughter, and redeeming himself.
And that's exactly why Joel had to save her, saving Ellie then was a way of him actually being able to save his 'daughter'.
While it's not 100% justifiable what he did, I can understand where he's coming from.
And if I was in Joel's shoes, and went through everything I did, I still can't say what I would do exactly.
To be honest, I'm tired of the angry alpha-male, anti-hero, working-class white daddy figure. Even Lee, a black man, fits into that as the tough father figure.
It's no surprise that Telltale recycled Kenny so that they could make him more appealing to audiences who are used to the likes of Booker DeWitt and Daryl Dixon. I wish Clem didn't have to deal with him, but he's run his course now. Maybe Clem in Season 3 will be able to move on from a man's shadow and come into her own.
TBH I don't think Ellie agreed with it, but the fact that she acted like she believed what he told her is very intriguing. And yeah, I remember people debating about that ending, a lot of people didn't like it, it definitely left me more uneasy than the Season 2 Ending.
It's up to you whether he did something purely selfish or heroic, and whether his adoptive daughter agreed with his decision or not.
Just as it's up to Clem whether to stick with Kenny or be free of him.
It's not like Rick had a choice in the matter, Shane wasn't going to let the issue drop. Even if Rick managed to talk him down the issue was… more going to boil over at some point. Rick had to deal with the threat while he still had the chance.
After shooting Kenny and asking him "Why did you make me do this?" I remembered Rick telling Shane "Damn you for making me do this!"
Jane: "I didn't kill him, it was an accident." (putting away knife.)
Kenny just implies she killed the baby.
Someone shoots Rick's son by Accident nearly killing his son putting him on a death bed just before Hershal's farm. Rick doesn't kill the man that shot his son.
Joel possibly killed the last hope of humanity because he couldn't let go of Ellie. And yet I never, ever see anyone criticizing him for cho… moreosing family above all, and killing anyone that gets in-between them.
If it was Joel or Rick in the same situation, where someone told them they killed their kid, they WOULD have tried to kill them too.
Would you have the guts to come up to Joel or Rick and tell them you killed their kids? It's clear to me what they'd try to do to you.
@Pride
Jane never said she killed the baby.
Jane: "I didn't kill him, it was an accident." (putting away knife.)
Kenny just implies s… morehe killed the baby.
Someone shoots Rick's son by Accident nearly killing his son putting him on a death bed just before Hershal's farm. Rick doesn't kill the man that shot his son.
Rick's not like Kenny
There really aren't any parallels between Lori and Jane.
Lori basically made Shane what he was.
Lori was getting back at Shane for lying about Rick being dead.
Lori spent months taking everything Shane thought he had: his relationship with her, his relationship with Carl, his friendship with Rick, and finally a baby that was most likely his. She systematically destroyed who he was.
The hell? Are you suggesting people would try to hit you for it? If I told my family I killed a baby by accident, they'd be shocked, distraught, would probably try to find the body. They wouldn't turn on me. I imagine recrimination, asking what I was doing to lose the baby and why I was careless. Not physical violence.
I mean, they'd kick my ass when I revealed it was a lie, because what the hell, that's a fucked up thing to do. But not when I first told them I lost the baby.
I think an experiment is a best thing.
All the Jane people, go with your family member who has a baby near a river. Ask to carry a baby ju… morest for a little while.
Get out of sight and hide the baby.
Come back and say It was an accident when they ask you where the baby is
Then tell us how your relatives reacted.
I liked the ending of Last of Us. I actually thought the Fireflies were just as messed up as the "goverment" they were fighting. The world of "the last of us" didn't need a cure, the zombies there were the least of the world's problem. It was people killing each other that was the problem.
Back to the game, I don't think Jane was seeing Jamie in Clem. Yes, leaving Jamie behind weighed on her, but Clem was nothing like Jamie. Jamie was a constant drag, Clem could hold her own. Jane even taught Clem a few tricks, which is something she could have never shared with Jamie. Jane genuinely liked Clem for who she was, not as a stand in for Jamie. Jane left Jamie behind. She didn't lose her like Kenny lost Duck or Katja. She was forced by circumstance, yes, but I imagine Kenny would have stayed and died before leaving Duck.
In contrast, Clem and AJ are straight up stand ins for Kenny. It's most obvious when he calls her Duck, but its evident in their relationship. Kenny sees himself as the protective figure. He acknowledges that Clem is capable, but he still imagines himself as her guardian. However, it's only in his mind. Kenny doesn't do anything to make Clem safer, aside from the obvious. He doesn't teach her survival skills (in contrast with Lee and Jane), he doesn't try to prepare her for when he might not be around, etc. He is living a fantasy where he didn't fail his family, if only he can keep them safe.
I think Kenny's relationship with Clem is a closer match to Joel's relationship with Ellie, but their personalities are very different. Joel is careful, deliberate. He uses violence as a tool. Kenny is wild and impulsive, and resorts to violence whenever he can't cope.
Hey great topic.
I don't know if I would really draw parallels between Kenny/Rick Grimes apart from their need to protect their kin. Kenn… morey throughout the series has shown to be somewhat biast based on what he thinks is the correct choice, where as Rick (who also has his moments of selfishness), has shown the majority of his decisions are based on what would be the most positive outcome for the greater group. Lee would arguably be more aligned to Rick than Kenny is.
FYI - Assuming this is Graphic Novel Rick? I haven't seen the TV version of Walking dead, are they potrayed the same? is the TV show any good?
Joel is a closer match to Kenny, but even more of a reflection of Jane. They are both loners, self-serving and pretty much broken until they find their placebo's to fill the voids in their life e.g. Sarah/Ellie, Jamie/Clem. They both even end up lying in the end to get what they want (I'm actually quite shocked that everyone was dis… [view original content]
Rick at that point hadn't been that long into the apocalypse yet.
Give him the same time Kenny has been in the apocalypse for, about 2-3ish years, and that would be about the time Rick bites a man's throat out and guts another like a fish after he'd surrendered for threatening his boy.
@Pride
Jane never said she killed the baby.
Jane: "I didn't kill him, it was an accident." (putting away knife.)
Kenny just implies s… morehe killed the baby.
Someone shoots Rick's son by Accident nearly killing his son putting him on a death bed just before Hershal's farm. Rick doesn't kill the man that shot his son.
Rick's not like Kenny
That scenario you listed is way off and you know it. Those men tried to deliberately kill Rick and Rape his son. Theres no accident in that. Of course he would bite their adam's apple out.
And Later in the apocalypse Rick actually becomes gradually more and more forgiving. Negan nearly killed Rick and everyone in his group in ways more horrible than they ever encountered yet Rick spares him in the end. Kenny would of beat Negan's face in with a crow bar.
Rick at that point hadn't been that long into the apocalypse yet.
Give him the same time Kenny has been in the apocalypse for, about 2-3i… moresh years, and that would be about the time Rick bites a man's throat out and guts another like a fish after he'd surrendered for threatening his boy.
It's not way off. Killing the last bandit and making him suffer slowly with the knife after he surrendered is a sane thing to do right?That particular bandit hadn't actually harmed anyone yet by the time Rick got to him. The point is, each person has a different trigger. Threatening Carl was Rick's, killing the baby was Kenny's. Hell, if Christa were in that situation and Jane told her another baby died, I can see that being her breaking point too.
Also if you wanna take the future into consideration, if Kenny stays with Clem he gets her to Wellington and sacrifices his safety to keep her and AJ alive. Jane said he was becoming like Carver... Carver would NEVER have done something like that.
If you pick "you were right about Jane" option Clem and Kenny point out how they thought she could have done it on purpose because Jane seemed like she was never comfortable with the baby to begin with, and her fame with leaving loved ones behind, which you know is true.
That scenario you listed is way off and you know it. Those men tried to deliberately kill Rick and Rape his son. Theres no accident in that.… more Of course he would bite their adam's apple out.
And Later in the apocalypse Rick actually becomes gradually more and more forgiving. Negan nearly killed Rick and everyone in his group in ways more horrible than they ever encountered yet Rick spares him in the end. Kenny would of beat Negan's face in with a crow bar.
I saw men beat shit out of each other for a cheating woman, whom they know isnt worth it. And you think that anyone would just shrug off the death of a baby like it doesnt matter, and just say its OK, we'll bang again and make another one?
I also saw people lose their child. They sent their child for a swim with their friends (parents friends) and child drowned.
When that happens you see red.
And if you believe that your family would simply be just stern with you, you are fooling yourself.
The best thing you can hope for is that they refuse any further contact with you.
The hell? Are you suggesting people would try to hit you for it? If I told my family I killed a baby by accident, they'd be shocked, distrau… moreght, would probably try to find the body. They wouldn't turn on me. I imagine recrimination, asking what I was doing to lose the baby and why I was careless. Not physical violence.
I mean, they'd kick my ass when I revealed it was a lie, because what the hell, that's a fucked up thing to do. But not when I first told them I lost the baby.
There really aren't any parallels between Lori and Jane.
* Lori basically made Shane what he was.
* Lori was getting back at Shane for… more lying about Rick being dead.
* Lori spent months taking everything Shane thought he had: his relationship with her, his relationship with Carl, his friendship with Rick, and finally a baby that was most likely his. She systematically destroyed who he was.
Jane isn't remotely like Lori.
we are talking about the comic versions and kenny is like rick in the comics shane just went bat shit crazy out of no where so he is not like kenny in anyway
Shane didn't lie about Rick being dead. He went to the hospital to save Rick and saw Rick's ventilators cut off with him not breathing. Rick… more did die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BKBYGgs5ZU
Rick came back due to a rare phenomenon know as the lazarus effect. He technically did die and appeared to be dead.
Do you remember why Rick kills Shane? Lori tells Rick that Shane is losing it trying to get Rick to see Shane for who he really was and not his best friend any more. People dont Like Kenny because like Shane he would go to extremes protecting a family that wasnt even his to begin with.
Its the same as Jane showing Clem who Kenny really was.
Do you remember why Rick kills Shane? Lori tells Rick that Shane is losing it trying to get Rick to see Shane for who he really was and not … morehis best friend any more. People dont Like Kenny because like Shane he would go to extremes protecting a family that wasnt even his to begin with.
Its the same as Jane showing Clem who Kenny really was.
Comments
The ending of The Last of Us was amazing IMO. Just sayin.
Well, I certainly wouldn't have killed the last brain surgeons in the US possibly. But this showed us that the game wasn't about what we wanted, it was about Joel's story and his redemption through coming to love Ellie like a daughter, and redeeming himself.
And that's exactly why Joel had to save her, saving Ellie then was a way of him actually being able to save his 'daughter'.
While it's not 100% justifiable what he did, I can understand where he's coming from.
And if I was in Joel's shoes, and went through everything I did, I still can't say what I would do exactly.
Sorry FACKING double post.
I agree. Jane was ****ing stupid in that situation. Kenny had strived so hard to keep that baby alive. Jane has been known for her survivalist attitude, and not liking dead weights, and also hating Kenny's guts.
She has the baby for 10 minutes and comes back all like "lel i lost the baby it was an accident but im not going to say the specifics, im really sorry it was an accident, friends now teehee lel."
Rick would probably kill kenny if the met
Yep. We need strong men like Carver to get us through this.
Because that what Kenny was turning into.
If you think otherwise you're lying to yourself.
Then stop talking how Kenny over-reacted. Your own relatives without Zombie Appocalipse would beat the shit out of you.
Could not agree more!
I think that some players got upset because the protaginist they played with for the last 10+ hours wasn't the sterotypical redeeming hero build that is so common in gaming stories these days. Joel was human and flawed just like in RL, they dropped these hints through out the entire game, so yeah, that ending was perfect in my opinion.
Are you serious?
Rick would go full walker on the persom that kills/hurts/touches/looks at Carl in a wrong way.
Eh he's getting more like comics Rick tbh
Kenny and Rick Grimes would get along well.
For about ten issues and try to kill each other
that is what I'm trying to say...... hahahahaha
Anti hero
No, they wouldn't. This makes no sense. Kenny did overreact because he's been overreacting the entire episode.
Kenny is acutally more like Shane. Shane did brutal things to protect the group and it was his way or else.
Thats why rick put him down.
Rick in someways was wrong for killing shane to.
But she could of stopped the fight at any time by simply saying the baby was fine, she wanted a fight, and she knew one of them could end up dead.
It's not like Rick had a choice in the matter, Shane wasn't going to let the issue drop. Even if Rick managed to talk him down the issue was going to boil over at some point. Rick had to deal with the threat while he still had the chance.
After shooting Kenny and asking him "Why did you make me do this?" I remembered Rick telling Shane "Damn you for making me do this!"
It's up to you whether he did something purely selfish or heroic, and whether his adoptive daughter agreed with his decision or not.
Just as it's up to Clem whether to stick with Kenny or be free of him.
To be honest, I'm tired of the angry alpha-male, anti-hero, working-class white daddy figure. Even Lee, a black man, fits into that as the tough father figure.
It's no surprise that Telltale recycled Kenny so that they could make him more appealing to audiences who are used to the likes of Booker DeWitt and Daryl Dixon. I wish Clem didn't have to deal with him, but he's run his course now. Maybe Clem in Season 3 will be able to move on from a man's shadow and come into her own.
TBH I don't think Ellie agreed with it, but the fact that she acted like she believed what he told her is very intriguing. And yeah, I remember people debating about that ending, a lot of people didn't like it, it definitely left me more uneasy than the Season 2 Ending.
And if anything Jane would be Lori. Lori pushed Rick into killing Shane like how Jane pushed Clem into killing Kenny. It was emotional manipulation.
@Pride
Jane never said she killed the baby.
Jane: "I didn't kill him, it was an accident." (putting away knife.)
Kenny just implies she killed the baby.
Someone shoots Rick's son by Accident nearly killing his son putting him on a death bed just before Hershal's farm. Rick doesn't kill the man that shot his son.
Rick's not like Kenny
If I remember correctly Rick was fully prepared to attack the man and had to be restrained by Tyreese or someone else.
I prefer even the St. John's than Kenny, he's just an intolerant fuck.
Shane actually is the one to rough Otis up in the TV show. Rick run's holding Carl to the farm that Otis says to go to.
I'm not referring to the TV show which alters a lot of characterization.
There really aren't any parallels between Lori and Jane.
Jane isn't remotely like Lori.
The hell? Are you suggesting people would try to hit you for it? If I told my family I killed a baby by accident, they'd be shocked, distraught, would probably try to find the body. They wouldn't turn on me. I imagine recrimination, asking what I was doing to lose the baby and why I was careless. Not physical violence.
I mean, they'd kick my ass when I revealed it was a lie, because what the hell, that's a fucked up thing to do. But not when I first told them I lost the baby.
The comic is actually more limited on character. Thats why the show is more popular and the comic is ignored by most.
I liked the ending of Last of Us. I actually thought the Fireflies were just as messed up as the "goverment" they were fighting. The world of "the last of us" didn't need a cure, the zombies there were the least of the world's problem. It was people killing each other that was the problem.
Back to the game, I don't think Jane was seeing Jamie in Clem. Yes, leaving Jamie behind weighed on her, but Clem was nothing like Jamie. Jamie was a constant drag, Clem could hold her own. Jane even taught Clem a few tricks, which is something she could have never shared with Jamie. Jane genuinely liked Clem for who she was, not as a stand in for Jamie. Jane left Jamie behind. She didn't lose her like Kenny lost Duck or Katja. She was forced by circumstance, yes, but I imagine Kenny would have stayed and died before leaving Duck.
In contrast, Clem and AJ are straight up stand ins for Kenny. It's most obvious when he calls her Duck, but its evident in their relationship. Kenny sees himself as the protective figure. He acknowledges that Clem is capable, but he still imagines himself as her guardian. However, it's only in his mind. Kenny doesn't do anything to make Clem safer, aside from the obvious. He doesn't teach her survival skills (in contrast with Lee and Jane), he doesn't try to prepare her for when he might not be around, etc. He is living a fantasy where he didn't fail his family, if only he can keep them safe.
I think Kenny's relationship with Clem is a closer match to Joel's relationship with Ellie, but their personalities are very different. Joel is careful, deliberate. He uses violence as a tool. Kenny is wild and impulsive, and resorts to violence whenever he can't cope.
Rick at that point hadn't been that long into the apocalypse yet.
Give him the same time Kenny has been in the apocalypse for, about 2-3ish years, and that would be about the time Rick bites a man's throat out and guts another like a fish after he'd surrendered for threatening his boy.
That scenario you listed is way off and you know it. Those men tried to deliberately kill Rick and Rape his son. Theres no accident in that. Of course he would bite their adam's apple out.
And Later in the apocalypse Rick actually becomes gradually more and more forgiving. Negan nearly killed Rick and everyone in his group in ways more horrible than they ever encountered yet Rick spares him in the end. Kenny would of beat Negan's face in with a crow bar.
It's not way off. Killing the last bandit and making him suffer slowly with the knife after he surrendered is a sane thing to do right?That particular bandit hadn't actually harmed anyone yet by the time Rick got to him. The point is, each person has a different trigger. Threatening Carl was Rick's, killing the baby was Kenny's. Hell, if Christa were in that situation and Jane told her another baby died, I can see that being her breaking point too.
Also if you wanna take the future into consideration, if Kenny stays with Clem he gets her to Wellington and sacrifices his safety to keep her and AJ alive. Jane said he was becoming like Carver... Carver would NEVER have done something like that.
If you pick "you were right about Jane" option Clem and Kenny point out how they thought she could have done it on purpose because Jane seemed like she was never comfortable with the baby to begin with, and her fame with leaving loved ones behind, which you know is true.
I saw men beat shit out of each other for a cheating woman, whom they know isnt worth it. And you think that anyone would just shrug off the death of a baby like it doesnt matter, and just say its OK, we'll bang again and make another one?
I also saw people lose their child. They sent their child for a swim with their friends (parents friends) and child drowned.
When that happens you see red.
And if you believe that your family would simply be just stern with you, you are fooling yourself.
The best thing you can hope for is that they refuse any further contact with you.
Well, some seasons anyway.
Shane didn't lie about Rick being dead. He went to the hospital to save Rick and saw Rick's ventilators cut off with him not breathing. Rick did die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BKBYGgs5ZU
Rick came back due to a rare phenomenon know as the lazarus effect. He technically did die and appeared to be dead.
we are talking about the comic versions and kenny is like rick in the comics shane just went bat shit crazy out of no where so he is not like kenny in anyway
The point is the perception of what he did, not what he actually did. That was primarily about Lori, not Shane.
Do you remember why Rick kills Shane? Lori tells Rick that Shane is losing it trying to get Rick to see Shane for who he really was and not his best friend any more. People dont Like Kenny because like Shane he would go to extremes protecting a family that wasnt even his to begin with.
Its the same as Jane showing Clem who Kenny really was.
Rick killed Shane because Shane brought him to a secluded location to kill him. Shane had already tried to kill him once before.