Yeah the thing with Nick made me realize the serious weaknesses in creating a game piecemeal like this. If this game had been created all at once to be released all at once, the writers would have been able to realize that Nick's character couldn't go anywhere and just write him out altogether. Even that would have been preferable to what happened. The problem with working on each episode seperately is that if a plot point ends up going nowhere or a character arc ends up having nowhere to go (which happens in all writing sometimes even if you have a whole thing in mind for a character. Sometimes what you think works at first doesn't and it needs scrapping) you don't have the luxury of just writing it out. We already met Nick, so they had to keep him around even though they clearly decided they could do nothing with him.
They really should have the arcs of characters, determinant or not, entirely planned out before creating and releasing episode one. I hope they do better with this in the future.
The writing in episode 3 and 4 are my only real complaints. I think it hindered episode 5 in some aspects.
Jane developed into a great ch… morearacter still struggling to come to terms with her past experiences with a group and if she should really try it again, Kenny was well written as we saw him go into a much darker place and mirror scenes we saw earlier from Carver, but that's about it. I get what they were trying to do with Sarah not coping just like Jamie, but the execution at the deck was horrible. It would of been better if we had just not been able to get her out of the caravan instead of giving us a silly scene with the deck. Nick's death felt like they didn't know what to do with that character anymore so they just brushed him aside.
This was infuriating. Especially because, IMO, he had the most interesting character arc of this season and it's just dropped in the middle of it! I wish they had never made him determinant, just so his character arc could go on with everyone, and actually have a conclusion.
I don't actually have a problem with a character we know just dying or disappearing. It's the nature of the universe this game is set in. I just didn't like the execution of it. Maybe it would of been better for Nick to just get lost after the escape scene and leave it open to what happened to him. Maybe even find him again in the Jane ending back at Howe's or something.
Yeah the thing with Nick made me realize the serious weaknesses in creating a game piecemeal like this. If this game had been created all at… more once to be released all at once, the writers would have been able to realize that Nick's character couldn't go anywhere and just write him out altogether. Even that would have been preferable to what happened. The problem with working on each episode seperately is that if a plot point ends up going nowhere or a character arc ends up having nowhere to go (which happens in all writing sometimes even if you have a whole thing in mind for a character. Sometimes what you think works at first doesn't and it needs scrapping) you don't have the luxury of just writing it out. We already met Nick, so they had to keep him around even though they clearly decided they could do nothing with him.
They really should have the arcs of characters, determinant or not, entirely planned out before creating and releasing episode one. I hope they do better with this in the future.
Luke's death and that they killed off every member of the cabin group. They seemed like they were building Luke's character up into a 'Lee' (no one can replace Lee) but they made him a big brother figure to Clementine and they were building up this conflict between Kenny and Luke only to have them get along (not that I don't like this) in episode 5. Luke's death really felt out of place to me and I can get that maybe it was needed to help the story progress (he dies and the group falls apart) but Telltale could have done so much more with him...
Here's my list of why Season 2 wasn't as impressive as it could have been:
Clementine being treat as an adult all too often when everyone forgets she's barely a teenager. Everyone relies on her too much, and she's asked to accomplish tasks when any other adult can do it in her place. There's making Clementine just as reliable as adults, and then there's sitting around and just letting an eleven year old girl do all the work.
New characters either being under-developed, wasted potential, or having little to no backstory, leaving little to no impact when they are killed off. Most egregious example is Sarita, Sarah, and Nick.
Kenny's writing since his reintroduction. His rehashed storylines, his plot armour which lasts yet another full season, lack of explanation of his return, and his overblown anger issues causing needless drama. There's more, but it'll fill up the entire page.
Character's writing tends to be inconsistent at times. For example, Carlos and Rebecca goes from hating Clementine to liking her overnight.
Some choices that never matters or have little difference between each other. Examples are the dying man in the river, and stealing from Arvo.
The fate of Christa never being revealed or brought up again. A caretaker of two years, and Clementine almost forgets her just as quickly as the audience does.
Determinant characters having little to no impact in the story, making saving them pointless.
400 Days Characters, besides Bonnie, having no role in Season 2.
I hate that this season was better than season 1. I hate it! (Not really a hate comment)
Nah, i loved this season so much better than i did with season 1. I've played season 1 through maybe 3 times, and season 2 3 times. Will play it again soon
Well, I'll readily admit that TTG sort of wrote themselves into a tight spot when they killed Lee in Season 1. If Season 2 had Lee, I probably wouldn't be on here complaining about it.
Also, Season 2 needed more hugs, yes.
That the ending makes your choices through out not really matter. I mean it comes down to you, Kenny, and Jane. Those final choices are all that really matter. Nothing prior really effects much.
I'd argue that season two worked even better by having Clem as the protagonist. As she was just a kid and we had seen what she went through in season one, I was a lot more emotionally involved with her journey. I was constantly on edge and wishing things would get better for her
Lee's absence is one of the things that made Season 2 so bittersweet and made his presence in Season 1 so valuable.
I wish they kept it that way and didn't have Kenny return to continually remind us about Season 1.
This might be a funny thing to ask about the ice thing but like...
Wasn't season 2 taking place around 2013? 400 Days mentions Wallstreet and Occupy started up in 2011.
Anyways the winter of 2013 was one of the coldest and harshest. My dad told me some of the ice on the lake got to be about 2 feet thick. Then again this could have been the start of winter. Anyways just thinking depending on the time and place that ice could have been nearly unbreakable. Now that I think of it the Walkers probably got buried too! :O
(If it was the winter of 2012 though that one was super warm and there might not have been ice at all).
Anyways I feel like the biggest problem I had with season 2 was Carver in Episode 3. He felt like a straw villain here to teach us that murdering people and child abuse is WRONG.
I want to add something to the criticism. I really like season 2, episode 5 but it didn't feel like the way they advertised for it was very accurate, or I don't know, I feel like something was kind of off in it. I mean they made a hashtag for Clementine for Pete's sake and they were telling us this: Your choices will decide Clem's fate. Who will YOU become? '#MyClementine.
What were these choices? Well they were pretty much 1-2 sets of choices that were pretty obvious and binary. I guess in a way it was just too easy to influence what ending you got, making the rest of the game really not matter.
I feel like part of this could be avoided if your prior games choices actually aggregated into what choices you got in the end. Maybe you don't get the choice between Jane, Kenny, or going alone, but instead you get like 4 different dialog boxes of what you can do/say during their fight in the climax. There could be like ~8 dialog options but you only get presented four based on what you did with your character. Though I could see that frustrating players it could leave some of them curious enough to think what do you have to do to get the ending you want? What kind of person do you have to be? If you were dying to see the other endings but didn't want to replay there's always youtube.
In the end of Season 1 if you don't give Clementine the order to shoot you or leave you she makes one for yourself based on what choices you made throughout the season. It's small and subtle, but it lets you experiment and figure out maybe why that happened the way it did. Morality systems in games will always have their limitation but I felt the choices you make versus the consequences you got in season 2, episode 5 were too obvious, and not based on the actions leading up to it. :0
For me it was everything you've already stated, and the length of the episodes. They were a lot shorter than season 1 episodes, meaning that by the time I was really getting into the episode, it would suddenly end. I understand that it's a good way of keeping people interested and on-edge for the next episode but they just felt too short:( This season has been phenomenal imo though, No Going Back made me really question what I was doing; despite replaying it about 10 times I'm still not happy with my choices. SO pumped for season 3, praying that we continue on as Clementine!
I don't think they ever mentioned the occupy movement, Wallstreet existed before 2013. I think season 1 takes place in 2003? That would make season 2 2005 or 2006.
This might be a funny thing to ask about the ice thing but like...
Wasn't season 2 taking place around 2013? 400 Days mentions Wallstreet… more and Occupy started up in 2011.
Anyways the winter of 2013 was one of the coldest and harshest. My dad told me some of the ice on the lake got to be about 2 feet thick. Then again this could have been the start of winter. Anyways just thinking depending on the time and place that ice could have been nearly unbreakable. Now that I think of it the Walkers probably got buried too! :O
(If it was the winter of 2012 though that one was super warm and there might not have been ice at all).
Anyways I feel like the biggest problem I had with season 2 was Carver in Episode 3. He felt like a straw villain here to teach us that murdering people and child abuse is WRONG.
Our criticisms are pretty much the same. Some that I would add is:
Being forced to befriend Kenny and be really close to him, I would have preferred to have been able to keep a distance from him.
Lackluster and unnecessary deaths, especially with a lack of mourning after. This being particularly the case for Sarah, Nick & Luke. I feel everyone just forgot about Sarah after her death, considering it was such a horrible way to go, also mentioning of Luke was very short apart from a small exchange with Jane and Bonnie. Luke was basically the person who held the group together and held the group together and after the fire at the power station everyone seemed to really like him, even Kenny was warming slightly. I think Clem's reaction was very poor, she seems almost immediately over it.
I would have preferred decisions to have more an impact instead of a choice for the sake of having one with the same result either way.
LESS DETERMINANT CHARACTERS. I would have preferred a small group of maybe Clem, AJ, Luke, Kenny/Jane, Sarah/Bonnie to actually lived. I was slightly pissed how they seem to want Clem to be an isolated Jane 2.0
Here's my list of why Season 2 wasn't as impressive as it could have been:
* Clementine being treat as an adult all too often when ever… moreyone forgets she's barely a teenager. Everyone relies on her too much, and she's asked to accomplish tasks when any other adult can do it in her place. There's making Clementine just as reliable as adults, and then there's sitting around and just letting an eleven year old girl do all the work.
* New characters either being under-developed, wasted potential, or having little to no backstory, leaving little to no impact when they are killed off. Most egregious example is Sarita, Sarah, and Nick.
* Kenny's writing since his reintroduction. His rehashed storylines, his plot armour which lasts yet another full season, lack of explanation of his return, and his overblown anger issues causing needless drama. There's more, but it'll fill up the entire page.
* Character's writing tends to be inconsistent at ti… [view original content]
In the scenario where you try to save Luke, Clem falls into the ice and a walker tries to grab you, but Luke grabs it away from Clementine and then he suddenly gets dragged down to the abyss, I can understand complaints on Luke's death if you cover him, it's not that great, but I think people are starting to forget how awful and stupid Nick and Sarah's deaths were when they start complaining about Luke's 'savior" second death.
* The Cabin Group ending up being absolutely pointless and having an insanely small amount of development. This was, to me, the biggest flaw… more of this entire season. The Walking Dead is as popular as it is because they made us care about the characters and made it hit hard when we lost them. Even my favorite character of the season, Luke, didn't evoke even a quarter of the emotions that Lee or even Duck did with their deaths in season one. Half the characters were just plot devices and half-arsed portraits of "likeable" characters that were supposed to make us sad when they died. Was Alvin's death sad? Yes, but barely knowing and barely caring about the character made his whole dramatic "take care of my family" scene fall flat.
* This factors into the above: bringing Kenny back and having him take over the entire season and severely hindering all of the other characters' development. It got to the point where he was more important than Cleme… [view original content]
In the scenario where you try to save Luke, Clem falls into the ice and a walker tries to grab you, but Luke grabs it away from Clementine a… morend then he suddenly gets dragged down to the abyss, I can understand complaints on Luke's death if you cover him, it's not that great, but I think people are starting to forget how awful and stupid Nick and Sarah's deaths were when they start complaining about Luke's 'savior" second death.
There's like two references to like the economy going to shambles and Wallstreet. In season 1 episode 1, and 400 days you can discuss these events that took place from 2008 and beyond.
(I am just saying that I don't think you'd have a reason to rant about Wallstreet as much pre-crash? Especially a few years before it.)
I don't think they ever mentioned the occupy movement, Wallstreet existed before 2013. I think season 1 takes place in 2003? That would make season 2 2005 or 2006.
The deaths in Amid the Ruins are probably still the lowest point for me. As long as characters were alive, they still had the potential to surprise people and develop in satisfying ways. But then my favorites were abruptly killed off as an afterthought. Potential wasted, and previous development forgotten.
For a story that's so character driven, planning these arcs to conclude in a meaningful way has to be a priority.
I'm really confused about Nick. They gave him so much attention in the first two episodes only to drop him on the third and then kill him off completely in the fourth. I feel like Telltale should have at least given him more attention in episode three, especially considering the Matthew and Walt problem. They made it seem as if Nick just shrugged it off and then stayed as a mute for the rest of the episode. This is also confusing considering how he and Kenny fought pretty much all the time in ep. 2. He should've been more active. The way he died was also very disappointing. He ended up seeming like a throwaway character instead of the real, complex character he was shaping up to be in the beginning.
I was also bothered by the whole "if you can't keep up, we should let you die" discourse that happens in ep. 4 with Jane telling you over and over again that you should leave Sarah behind. I would have liked someone else to convince me otherwise to pull me out of that frame of mind, or at the very least to balance both sides of the argument. I think Sarah deserved a better treatment than what she got as well. She was made to seem a liability from start to finish, and all possible strengths to her character were ignored .Her death would have gone easier for me if I didn't feel like she was intended to be a throwaway character.
I thought ep. 5 was pretty good, all things considered. Maybe I'll change my mind once I start thinking about it more, but I'm at least satisfied with it for the moment.
I think that all choices players accumulated throughout the entire season really does make everyone's Clementine unique. Yes, the final 2 or 3 decisions are the ones which make the big impact on the story, but her developments are different for everyone. I mean look on this forum, virtually everyone seems to understand her in a different way.
I want to add something to the criticism. I really like season 2, episode 5 but it didn't feel like the way they advertised for it was very … moreaccurate, or I don't know, I feel like something was kind of off in it. I mean they made a hashtag for Clementine for Pete's sake and they were telling us this: Your choices will decide Clem's fate. Who will YOU become? '#MyClementine.
What were these choices? Well they were pretty much 1-2 sets of choices that were pretty obvious and binary. I guess in a way it was just too easy to influence what ending you got, making the rest of the game really not matter.
I feel like part of this could be avoided if your prior games choices actually aggregated into what choices you got in the end. Maybe you don't get the choice between Jane, Kenny, or going alone, but instead you get like 4 different dialog boxes of what you can do/say during their fight in the climax. There could be like ~8 dialog options but … [view original content]
The shorter episodes was due to the removal of much of the exploration, which worked in its own way I think. I wouldn't say it made it better or worse than season one, just different. With that said however, some optional dialogue scenes would have been great to add even more depth to these great characters.
I too would love to play as Clementine for the next season, but recently I thought of something which the fans might like even more. Imagine next season we play as Christa after she gets separated from Clementine. The player's like "WTF?? WHERE'S CLEM???" but right at the end BAM reunited with Clementine as a young teenager. Then in season 4 we get to play as Clem again and she'll explain everything that happened to her after season 2 (maybe some flashback scenes too?)
I dunno maybe that's a stupid idea. I really wish Telltale the best of luck with the next season; they haven't made it easy for themselves after season 2!!
For me it was everything you've already stated, and the length of the episodes. They were a lot shorter than season 1 episodes, meaning that… more by the time I was really getting into the episode, it would suddenly end. I understand that it's a good way of keeping people interested and on-edge for the next episode but they just felt too short:( This season has been phenomenal imo though, No Going Back made me really question what I was doing; despite replaying it about 10 times I'm still not happy with my choices. SO pumped for season 3, praying that we continue on as Clementine!
I respectfully disagree. You don't feel that the way you helped her develop throughout the season mattered at all? I mean you could say nothing you did in season one mattered either, in fact even less so since Clem ended up in the same place. It is the character development, not the plot, which is the focus of TWD.
That the ending makes your choices through out not really matter. I mean it comes down to you, Kenny, and Jane. Those final choices are all that really matter. Nothing prior really effects much.
I never really felt like there was anywhere near as much tension between Kenny and Luke as there was between Kenny and Jane. I mean, Kenny and Jane were completely the oppoiste ends of the spectrum in many ways. Kenny and Luke would have always cooperated with each other. Sure, they'd argue, but they wouldn't end up getting into a fight. Luke would refuse to fight him.
While it was disappointing to see 400 days not having much impact, I think the DLC was strong enough to stand on its own. I can see why it's a popular criticism though.
-They could of done so much with Omid and Christa and they decided to kill off Omid and have Christa disappear for the rest of the season.
… more -Nick and Sarah's determinant fates were bullshit.
-The whole Kenny Vs Luke plot was erased the moment Luke died and it was replaced with Kenny Vs Jane.
-The 400 Days choices din't have an impact on season 2, Vince, Wyatt, Russell, Shel and Becca get shitty cameos and don't appear again.
Here's my list of why Season 2 wasn't as impressive as it could have been:
* Clementine being treat as an adult all too often when ever… moreyone forgets she's barely a teenager. Everyone relies on her too much, and she's asked to accomplish tasks when any other adult can do it in her place. There's making Clementine just as reliable as adults, and then there's sitting around and just letting an eleven year old girl do all the work.
* New characters either being under-developed, wasted potential, or having little to no backstory, leaving little to no impact when they are killed off. Most egregious example is Sarita, Sarah, and Nick.
* Kenny's writing since his reintroduction. His rehashed storylines, his plot armour which lasts yet another full season, lack of explanation of his return, and his overblown anger issues causing needless drama. There's more, but it'll fill up the entire page.
* Character's writing tends to be inconsistent at ti… [view original content]
Most of you are justifying your criticisms pretty well, though ironically I find myself disagreeing with a lot of them. I respect everyone's opinions but I'm quite surprised by the amount of people who sound like they didn't even like the season! Maybe I'm wrong on that one. I loved it from beginning to end and I felt like I was being too picky when I wrote my criticisms!
In Harm's Way was such a wasted episode, it had so much potential for good character development, instead it's just either Carver being evil because reasons, Kenny being same old Kenny, and the fact that the episode seemed more focused on putting Clem in tense situations rather than have her actually interact and get to know people, episode 3 KILLED the season.
Most of you are justifying your criticisms pretty well, though ironically I find myself disagreeing with a lot of them. I respect everyone's… more opinions but I'm quite surprised by the amount of people who sound like they didn't even like the season! Maybe I'm wrong on that one. I loved it from beginning to end and I felt like I was being too picky when I wrote my criticisms!
Maybe that episode could have benefitted from the hub style gameplay from season one. But hey I liked that episode all the same, what can I say. Don't you at least think the final scene from episode 3 was really good?
In Harm's Way was such a wasted episode, it had so much potential for good character development, instead it's just either Carver being evil… more because reasons, Kenny being same old Kenny, and the fact that the episode seemed more focused on putting Clem in tense situations rather than have her actually interact and get to know people, episode 3 KILLED the season.
Maybe that episode could have benefitted from the hub style gameplay from season one. But hey I liked that episode all the same, what can I say. Don't you at least think the final scene from episode 3 was really good?
Fair enough. I played the entire season in a week so I guess I might have felt differently had I waited a couple of months for each episode. I think waiting for the final episode to come out before playing is the right way to play. I'd rather they did away with the episodic format and release a complete season at once.
The misuse of Nick and Sarah is my main criticism. Other than that, the Kenny favoritism (despite the fact that he's my personal favorite, I understand that many don't like him, and wished to express that in game, but they never got the option to), and the lack of character development in the first few episodes.
Other than those things, I loved the season. There are other things that could've been improved, but these were the major flaws IMO.
A large majority of deaths were poorly written. Let's go over them.
Rebecca - Nicely done imo, it makes sense that she died after the pregnancy.
Luke - Sad, but felt like a rushed and a cheap death, although it was necessary as he was the only reason Mike and Bonnie were staying.
Nick - If he dies in E2, then that's fine, because you can try to save him. His final death, (the one in E4) was rushed and poorly written. I mean, he just randomly fell over and died? Was it from loss of blood from the gunshot wound he took? Rebecca cries more than Luke does over his death.
Carlos - Felt very rushed, but since I hate Sarah, I was ok with it.
Sarah - Just bad. She had a Ben death, "Well the structures support seems to be giving out, and the only person who tries to help me can't do anything". I hated it.
Alvin - I'm indifferent to this one. I think that fact he can get shot in E2 is dumb, but his death in E3 is very emotional.
So there, all Cabin Survivors and my opinion on their deaths. Tell me what you guys think.
Comments
Yeah the thing with Nick made me realize the serious weaknesses in creating a game piecemeal like this. If this game had been created all at once to be released all at once, the writers would have been able to realize that Nick's character couldn't go anywhere and just write him out altogether. Even that would have been preferable to what happened. The problem with working on each episode seperately is that if a plot point ends up going nowhere or a character arc ends up having nowhere to go (which happens in all writing sometimes even if you have a whole thing in mind for a character. Sometimes what you think works at first doesn't and it needs scrapping) you don't have the luxury of just writing it out. We already met Nick, so they had to keep him around even though they clearly decided they could do nothing with him.
They really should have the arcs of characters, determinant or not, entirely planned out before creating and releasing episode one. I hope they do better with this in the future.
This was infuriating. Especially because, IMO, he had the most interesting character arc of this season and it's just dropped in the middle of it! I wish they had never made him determinant, just so his character arc could go on with everyone, and actually have a conclusion.
I don't actually have a problem with a character we know just dying or disappearing. It's the nature of the universe this game is set in. I just didn't like the execution of it. Maybe it would of been better for Nick to just get lost after the escape scene and leave it open to what happened to him. Maybe even find him again in the Jane ending back at Howe's or something.
Nick's death
Luke's death and that they killed off every member of the cabin group. They seemed like they were building Luke's character up into a 'Lee' (no one can replace Lee) but they made him a big brother figure to Clementine and they were building up this conflict between Kenny and Luke only to have them get along (not that I don't like this) in episode 5. Luke's death really felt out of place to me and I can get that maybe it was needed to help the story progress (he dies and the group falls apart) but Telltale could have done so much more with him...
Rant over C:
Here's my list of why Season 2 wasn't as impressive as it could have been:
I hate that this season was better than season 1. I hate it! (Not really a hate comment)
Nah, i loved this season so much better than i did with season 1. I've played season 1 through maybe 3 times, and season 2 3 times. Will play it again soon
-They could of done so much with Omid and Christa and they decided to kill off Omid and have Christa disappear for the rest of the season.
-Nick and Sarah's determinant fates were bullshit.
-The whole Kenny Vs Luke plot was erased the moment Luke died and it was replaced with Kenny Vs Jane.
-The 400 Days choices din't have an impact on season 2, Vince, Wyatt, Russell, Shel and Becca get shitty cameos and don't appear again.
Lee's absence is one of the things that made Season 2 so bittersweet and made his presence in Season 1 so valuable.
I wish they kept it that way and didn't have Kenny return to continually remind us about Season 1.
That the ending makes your choices through out not really matter. I mean it comes down to you, Kenny, and Jane. Those final choices are all that really matter. Nothing prior really effects much.
I'd argue that season two worked even better by having Clem as the protagonist. As she was just a kid and we had seen what she went through in season one, I was a lot more emotionally involved with her journey. I was constantly on edge and wishing things would get better for her
This might be a funny thing to ask about the ice thing but like...
Wasn't season 2 taking place around 2013? 400 Days mentions Wallstreet and Occupy started up in 2011.
Anyways the winter of 2013 was one of the coldest and harshest. My dad told me some of the ice on the lake got to be about 2 feet thick. Then again this could have been the start of winter. Anyways just thinking depending on the time and place that ice could have been nearly unbreakable. Now that I think of it the Walkers probably got buried too! :O
(If it was the winter of 2012 though that one was super warm and there might not have been ice at all).
Anyways I feel like the biggest problem I had with season 2 was Carver in Episode 3. He felt like a straw villain here to teach us that murdering people and child abuse is WRONG.
I want to add something to the criticism. I really like season 2, episode 5 but it didn't feel like the way they advertised for it was very accurate, or I don't know, I feel like something was kind of off in it. I mean they made a hashtag for Clementine for Pete's sake and they were telling us this: Your choices will decide Clem's fate. Who will YOU become? '#MyClementine.
What were these choices? Well they were pretty much 1-2 sets of choices that were pretty obvious and binary. I guess in a way it was just too easy to influence what ending you got, making the rest of the game really not matter.
I feel like part of this could be avoided if your prior games choices actually aggregated into what choices you got in the end. Maybe you don't get the choice between Jane, Kenny, or going alone, but instead you get like 4 different dialog boxes of what you can do/say during their fight in the climax. There could be like ~8 dialog options but you only get presented four based on what you did with your character. Though I could see that frustrating players it could leave some of them curious enough to think what do you have to do to get the ending you want? What kind of person do you have to be? If you were dying to see the other endings but didn't want to replay there's always youtube.
In the end of Season 1 if you don't give Clementine the order to shoot you or leave you she makes one for yourself based on what choices you made throughout the season. It's small and subtle, but it lets you experiment and figure out maybe why that happened the way it did. Morality systems in games will always have their limitation but I felt the choices you make versus the consequences you got in season 2, episode 5 were too obvious, and not based on the actions leading up to it. :0
For me it was everything you've already stated, and the length of the episodes. They were a lot shorter than season 1 episodes, meaning that by the time I was really getting into the episode, it would suddenly end. I understand that it's a good way of keeping people interested and on-edge for the next episode but they just felt too short:( This season has been phenomenal imo though, No Going Back made me really question what I was doing; despite replaying it about 10 times I'm still not happy with my choices. SO pumped for season 3, praying that we continue on as Clementine!
Carlos' death.
Carver being killed off too quickly.
Everything focusing on Kenny.
I don't think they ever mentioned the occupy movement, Wallstreet existed before 2013. I think season 1 takes place in 2003? That would make season 2 2005 or 2006.
some choices feel meaningless
400 days crew
Carver's death
Our criticisms are pretty much the same. Some that I would add is:
In the scenario where you try to save Luke, Clem falls into the ice and a walker tries to grab you, but Luke grabs it away from Clementine and then he suddenly gets dragged down to the abyss, I can understand complaints on Luke's death if you cover him, it's not that great, but I think people are starting to forget how awful and stupid Nick and Sarah's deaths were when they start complaining about Luke's 'savior" second death.
No Nate
Nick and Sarah's deaths being worse doesn't make Luke's death less bad and ridiculous.
Well, I didn't think it was that bad, I thought it was fine.
There's like two references to like the economy going to shambles and Wallstreet. In season 1 episode 1, and 400 days you can discuss these events that took place from 2008 and beyond.
(I am just saying that I don't think you'd have a reason to rant about Wallstreet as much pre-crash? Especially a few years before it.)
The deaths in Amid the Ruins are probably still the lowest point for me. As long as characters were alive, they still had the potential to surprise people and develop in satisfying ways. But then my favorites were abruptly killed off as an afterthought. Potential wasted, and previous development forgotten.
For a story that's so character driven, planning these arcs to conclude in a meaningful way has to be a priority.
No boobs, i mean seriously telltale? 1/10
Aw... Beat me to this statement - totally agree! Ep. 1 was good, 2 & 5 were awesome! 3 & 4 disappointing.
I'm really confused about Nick. They gave him so much attention in the first two episodes only to drop him on the third and then kill him off completely in the fourth. I feel like Telltale should have at least given him more attention in episode three, especially considering the Matthew and Walt problem. They made it seem as if Nick just shrugged it off and then stayed as a mute for the rest of the episode. This is also confusing considering how he and Kenny fought pretty much all the time in ep. 2. He should've been more active. The way he died was also very disappointing. He ended up seeming like a throwaway character instead of the real, complex character he was shaping up to be in the beginning.
I was also bothered by the whole "if you can't keep up, we should let you die" discourse that happens in ep. 4 with Jane telling you over and over again that you should leave Sarah behind. I would have liked someone else to convince me otherwise to pull me out of that frame of mind, or at the very least to balance both sides of the argument. I think Sarah deserved a better treatment than what she got as well. She was made to seem a liability from start to finish, and all possible strengths to her character were ignored .Her death would have gone easier for me if I didn't feel like she was intended to be a throwaway character.
I thought ep. 5 was pretty good, all things considered. Maybe I'll change my mind once I start thinking about it more, but I'm at least satisfied with it for the moment.
I think that all choices players accumulated throughout the entire season really does make everyone's Clementine unique. Yes, the final 2 or 3 decisions are the ones which make the big impact on the story, but her developments are different for everyone. I mean look on this forum, virtually everyone seems to understand her in a different way.
Yeah, a damn shame. It's fortunate that The Wolf Among Us wasn't lacking in the boobs department, though.
The shorter episodes was due to the removal of much of the exploration, which worked in its own way I think. I wouldn't say it made it better or worse than season one, just different. With that said however, some optional dialogue scenes would have been great to add even more depth to these great characters.
I too would love to play as Clementine for the next season, but recently I thought of something which the fans might like even more. Imagine next season we play as Christa after she gets separated from Clementine. The player's like "WTF?? WHERE'S CLEM???" but right at the end BAM reunited with Clementine as a young teenager. Then in season 4 we get to play as Clem again and she'll explain everything that happened to her after season 2 (maybe some flashback scenes too?)
I dunno maybe that's a stupid idea. I really wish Telltale the best of luck with the next season; they haven't made it easy for themselves after season 2!!
I respectfully disagree. You don't feel that the way you helped her develop throughout the season mattered at all? I mean you could say nothing you did in season one mattered either, in fact even less so since Clem ended up in the same place. It is the character development, not the plot, which is the focus of TWD.
I never really felt like there was anywhere near as much tension between Kenny and Luke as there was between Kenny and Jane. I mean, Kenny and Jane were completely the oppoiste ends of the spectrum in many ways. Kenny and Luke would have always cooperated with each other. Sure, they'd argue, but they wouldn't end up getting into a fight. Luke would refuse to fight him.
While it was disappointing to see 400 days not having much impact, I think the DLC was strong enough to stand on its own. I can see why it's a popular criticism though.
I would say that your point about Clementine being treated as an adult was addressed appropriately many times during the season.
Most of you are justifying your criticisms pretty well, though ironically I find myself disagreeing with a lot of them. I respect everyone's opinions but I'm quite surprised by the amount of people who sound like they didn't even like the season! Maybe I'm wrong on that one. I loved it from beginning to end and I felt like I was being too picky when I wrote my criticisms!
In Harm's Way was such a wasted episode, it had so much potential for good character development, instead it's just either Carver being evil because reasons, Kenny being same old Kenny, and the fact that the episode seemed more focused on putting Clem in tense situations rather than have her actually interact and get to know people, episode 3 KILLED the season.
Maybe that episode could have benefitted from the hub style gameplay from season one. But hey I liked that episode all the same, what can I say. Don't you at least think the final scene from episode 3 was really good?
I guess it was good, but it didn't change how i felt about the episode.
Fair enough. I played the entire season in a week so I guess I might have felt differently had I waited a couple of months for each episode. I think waiting for the final episode to come out before playing is the right way to play. I'd rather they did away with the episodic format and release a complete season at once.
The misuse of Nick and Sarah is my main criticism. Other than that, the Kenny favoritism (despite the fact that he's my personal favorite, I understand that many don't like him, and wished to express that in game, but they never got the option to), and the lack of character development in the first few episodes.
Other than those things, I loved the season. There are other things that could've been improved, but these were the major flaws IMO.
A large majority of deaths were poorly written. Let's go over them.
Rebecca - Nicely done imo, it makes sense that she died after the pregnancy.
Luke - Sad, but felt like a rushed and a cheap death, although it was necessary as he was the only reason Mike and Bonnie were staying.
Nick - If he dies in E2, then that's fine, because you can try to save him. His final death, (the one in E4) was rushed and poorly written. I mean, he just randomly fell over and died? Was it from loss of blood from the gunshot wound he took?
Rebecca cries more than Luke does over his death.
Carlos - Felt very rushed, but since I hate Sarah, I was ok with it.
Sarah - Just bad. She had a Ben death, "Well the structures support seems to be giving out, and the only person who tries to help me can't do anything". I hated it.
Alvin - I'm indifferent to this one. I think that fact he can get shot in E2 is dumb, but his death in E3 is very emotional.
So there, all Cabin Survivors and my opinion on their deaths. Tell me what you guys think.