Well, Clementine witnessed Kenny kill Carver with 16 (or even 17) hits with a crowbar which rendered Carver's face into a bloody pulp. Now, Kenny is beating the shit out of Arvo who went after them with his own group, and accused them of stealing, even though (determinant, of course) you didn't steal anything from him (except for Jane, who still takes his gun even then), and Clementine tries to stop him from doing it. In Kenny's eyes, Arvo's a villain, just like Carver. Even though he isn't and Kenny's behaviour is inexcusable in that situation, it is Clem being hypocritical, not just Kenny being psychotic.
Kenny was still a good guy. He was just too far broken by his past experiences. Jane didn't do what she did to start a fight to the death. She did it to help Clem start to see how volatile Kenny was.
Jane only started ever fighting back in self defence. That's when it turned into a fight for survival.
She tried to convince Clementine to leave Kenny behind earlier, but she realized that Clem still thinks Kenny is a good guy.
And of course Kenny said everything about protecting Clementine and all that shit after he murdered Jane.
I love both characters. I just think in the end, Kenny lost it too bad and therefore he was in the wrong.
Jane brought it on herself but even she didn't think that Kenny would try to actually murder her.
I'm fascinated how people always manage to ignore that key scene in which Luke died and Clem almost with him if it weren't for Mrs-selfish-Jane. It was by far the most dangerous situation for Clem in the whole season while Kenny was miles away drilling Arvo a new butt hole. Too many people seem to have a screwed judgment about moral behavior.
Jane saved Clementine from the ice and when they got inside, Kenny only wanted to beat Arvo, even if Clementine asks for help. Kenny can ge… moret so angry that he just doesnt care about Clementines safety. Kennys judgment isnt that great and this is exactly what Jane proved to be right (even before fight escalated or even started).
Kind of... Whatever you do, Kenny says you were right and says the other option was wrong. It's like depending on your choice, one of the endings doesn't even exist.
No matter what you do, Kenny says that Clem is right. Obviously Kenny doesnt trust his judgement anymore and even he knows that he is too dangerous & unstable.
It's just that some people just treat Kenny as if he was god, as if he never made mistakes. That's why I choose to defend Jane in arguments instead of Kenny.
I can be a fan of Kenny and not have to throw the list of bad things he's done out of the window.
I'm a Kenny fan and I'm more than … moreaware of bad things he did and what flaws he exhibits. This, however, doesn't convince me that he is worse than Jane.
Well, people who are (or, at least, claim to be) simultaneously both Kenny and Jane fans don't argue with one side or the other, being biased towards just one.
If that's the case, I can see where you're coming from with this point. I disagree with those people, I like Kenny, one of my favourite characters from both seasons, but he isn't flawless, and that's what makes him such an interesting character.
It's just that some people just treat Kenny as if he was god, as if he never made mistakes. That's why I choose to defend Jane in arguments instead of Kenny.
Jane specifically states that even she didn't expect him to go as far as to murder her, she stated that she didn't want anyone to die, she just wanted to show Clem how dangerous Kenny can be and how out of control he can be, he even shoved Clementine over just cause he was angry, she wanted Clementine to realize this so that Clem is safe, how is that selfish?
I'm speaking in general. I don't know your story. For the most part, people have a tendency to take sides and hate characters that go against the ones they love. Luke and Kenny were pitted against each other, so yes, I do think that is part of it.
Okay, to the dude who said 'I don’t know why people hate Jane so much', you reply this:
Because she went against Kenny.
How is that speaking in general?
For the most part, people have a tendency to take sides and hate characters that go against the ones they love. Luke and Kenny were pitted against each other, so yes, I do think that is part of it.
And I said that this is a stupid generalization that clearly shows your bias, and is not something exhibited in any Pro-Kenny arguments I have read.
I'm speaking in general. I don't know your story. For the most part, people have a tendency to take sides and hate characters that go against the ones they love. Luke and Kenny were pitted against each other, so yes, I do think that is part of it.
* Im fine with her killing Troy. Only thing she could have done to save herself and the group
* Im fine with her leaving her sister behin… mored. Jamie wanted to die for so long time and forcing her to stay alive was brutal.
* Im fine with her leaving Sarah behind, because she wasnt going to survive with that mental state.
* im fine with her leaving the baby in the car, since it was safe enough (didnt care much about the baby anyway).
* Im fine with her tricking Kenny to show how unstable and dangerous he really is, so Clem would realize that its best to leave him behind
Is there something else she did which people think was wrong? Because pretty much everything she did sounds reasonable and logical thing to do for me (not maybe morally right).
Yes but her hidden agenda was to show Clementine Kenny's true colours due to Clementine being so blinded by her extended history to Kenny. H… moreer hidden agenda was just as noble as Kenny wanting to get AJ and Clem to safety. The flaw in her plan was the execution.
Honestly though, if that car barricade wasn't there. I think Kenny would have started something then and there.
In general terms, people who love Kenny tend to hate Jane because she goes against him. It was the same thing with Luke. Not everyone feels this way, naturally. I don't know how clearer I can be. If you're looking for a fight, I'm not interested.
I'm speaking in general.
Okay, to the dude who said 'I don’t know why people hate Jane so much', you reply this:
Because she w… moreent against Kenny.
How is that speaking in general?
For the most part, people have a tendency to take sides and hate characters that go against the ones they love. Luke and Kenny were pitted against each other, so yes, I do think that is part of it.
And I said that this is a stupid generalization that clearly shows your bias, and is not something exhibited in any Pro-Kenny arguments I have read.
Well, Clementine witnessed Kenny kill Carver with 16 (or even 17) hits with a crowbar which rendered Carver's face into a bloody pulp. Now, … moreKenny is beating the shit out of Arvo who went after them with his own group, and accused them of stealing, even though (determinant, of course) you didn't steal anything from him (except for Jane, who still takes his gun even then), and Clementine tries to stop him from doing it. In Kenny's eyes, Arvo's a villain, just like Carver. Even though he isn't and Kenny's behaviour is inexcusable in that situation, it is Clem being hypocritical, not just Kenny being psychotic.
In general terms, people who love Kenny tend to hate Jane because she goes against him. Not everyone feels this way, naturally. I don't know how clearer I can be.
And I said:
Okay, to the dude who said 'I don’t know why people hate Jane so much', you reply this:
Because she went against Kenny.
How is that speaking in general?
I understand what are you trying to say, but you worded your post so vaguely that it seemed like you were talking about every Kenny fan, and I took issue with that. Nothing more.
If you're looking for a fight, I'm not interested.
In general terms, people who love Kenny tend to hate Jane because she goes against him. It was the same thing with Luke. Not everyone feels this way, naturally. I don't know how clearer I can be. If you're looking for a fight, I'm not interested.
In general terms, people who love Kenny tend to hate Jane because she goes against him. Not everyone feels this way, naturally. I don't know… more how clearer I can be.
And I said:
Okay, to the dude who said 'I don’t know why people hate Jane so much', you reply this:
Because she went against Kenny.
How is that speaking in general?
I understand what are you trying to say, but you worded your post so vaguely that it seemed like you were talking about every Kenny fan, and I took issue with that. Nothing more.
If you're looking for a fight, I'm not interested.
Me neither.
It's pretty much the same situation. Kenny's beating up/smashing someone's head in while his "victim" is pretty much in the same state. Carver was shot in the kneecaps, rendering him unable to move aside from dragging himself. Arvo was tied down and had a leg brace. They both could not retaliate, so this man/still a teenager difference plays no role in this situation.
Kenny was still a good guy. He was just too far broken by his past experiences. Jane didn't do what she did to start a fight to the death. S… morehe did it to help Clem start to see how volatile Kenny was.
Jane only started ever fighting back in self defence. That's when it turned into a fight for survival.
Well obviously to Clem there is a difference. The differences in the person's size, strength and attitude totally makes the optics of each situation feel different. Clem does not feel empathy or sympathy for Carver but does for Arvo. What other reason would she feel so other than the attributes I said earlier?
It's pretty much the same situation. Kenny's beating up/smashing someone's head in while his "victim" is pretty much in the same state. Carv… moreer was shot in the kneecaps, rendering him unable to move aside from dragging himself. Arvo was tied down and had a leg brace. They both could not retaliate, so this man/still a teenager difference plays no role in this situation.
Clem does not feel empathy or sympathy for Carver but does for Arvo.
It's determinant. It's not mandatory for her to have any sympathy for Arvo, so... For those who didn't show sympathy to him as Clementine, it remains the same. My point may not apply to every situation, but certainly can be applied in some.
Well obviously to Clem there is a difference. The differences in the person's size, strength and attitude totally makes the optics of each … moresituation feel different. Clem does not feel empathy or sympathy for Carver but does for Arvo. What other reason would she feel so other than the attributes I said earlier?
Comments
Well, Clementine witnessed Kenny kill Carver with 16 (or even 17) hits with a crowbar which rendered Carver's face into a bloody pulp. Now, Kenny is beating the shit out of Arvo who went after them with his own group, and accused them of stealing, even though (determinant, of course) you didn't steal anything from him (except for Jane, who still takes his gun even then), and Clementine tries to stop him from doing it. In Kenny's eyes, Arvo's a villain, just like Carver. Even though he isn't and Kenny's behaviour is inexcusable in that situation, it is Clem being hypocritical, not just Kenny being psychotic.
i can't believe this
so true
Kenny was still a good guy. He was just too far broken by his past experiences. Jane didn't do what she did to start a fight to the death. She did it to help Clem start to see how volatile Kenny was.
Jane only started ever fighting back in self defence. That's when it turned into a fight for survival.
that's really the same way i was thinking about it
I'm fascinated how people always manage to ignore that key scene in which Luke died and Clem almost with him if it weren't for Mrs-selfish-Jane. It was by far the most dangerous situation for Clem in the whole season while Kenny was miles away drilling Arvo a new butt hole. Too many people seem to have a screwed judgment about moral behavior.
Kind of... Whatever you do, Kenny says you were right and says the other option was wrong. It's like depending on your choice, one of the endings doesn't even exist.
It's just that some people just treat Kenny as if he was god, as if he never made mistakes. That's why I choose to defend Jane in arguments instead of Kenny.
If that's the case, I can see where you're coming from with this point. I disagree with those people, I like Kenny, one of my favourite characters from both seasons, but he isn't flawless, and that's what makes him such an interesting character.
Jane specifically states that even she didn't expect him to go as far as to murder her, she stated that she didn't want anyone to die, she just wanted to show Clem how dangerous Kenny can be and how out of control he can be, he even shoved Clementine over just cause he was angry, she wanted Clementine to realize this so that Clem is safe, how is that selfish?
You only think that other people have double standards because you are the one with double standards.
/thread
No.
So I hate her for going agaist Kenny, not because she is manipulative and her whole plan was fucked up?
Uh.
Okay.
Good to know.
I'm speaking in general. I don't know your story. For the most part, people have a tendency to take sides and hate characters that go against the ones they love. Luke and Kenny were pitted against each other, so yes, I do think that is part of it.
Kenny's her family
(If what you said was irony i'm sorry for not noticing)
"If you love something set it free"
This reminds me of a famous and beautiful Basque song about freedom, "Hegoak" (Wings)
Hegoak ebaki banizkio
Neria izango zen
Ez zuen aldegingo.
Bainan horrela
Ez zen gehiago txoria izango.
Eta nik,
Txoria nuen maite.
If I had cut off its wings, it would have been mine and would not have flown away
But if I had done that, it wouldn't have been a bird anymore
And it is the bird that I loved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc-F-CzsAVI
Okay, to the dude who said 'I don’t know why people hate Jane so much', you reply this:
How is that speaking in general?
And I said that this is a stupid generalization that clearly shows your bias, and is not something exhibited in any Pro-Kenny arguments I have read.
And this is why we disagree.
I think he would to, I sure as hell would. Not kill but fight, which is also what K would do.
But then again I'm a bit nicer than Kenny and would probably not be in that position
In general terms, people who love Kenny tend to hate Jane because she goes against him. It was the same thing with Luke. Not everyone feels this way, naturally. I don't know how clearer I can be. If you're looking for a fight, I'm not interested.
You can say that but Carver is a grown man. Arvo is a puny wisp of a man, if not still a teenager. Its a little different circumstance.
And I said:
I understand what are you trying to say, but you worded your post so vaguely that it seemed like you were talking about every Kenny fan, and I took issue with that. Nothing more.
Me neither.
Well, I tend to just comment off the cuff. Sorry if I wasn't more clear. We can leave it at that.
It's pretty much the same situation. Kenny's beating up/smashing someone's head in while his "victim" is pretty much in the same state. Carver was shot in the kneecaps, rendering him unable to move aside from dragging himself. Arvo was tied down and had a leg brace. They both could not retaliate, so this man/still a teenager difference plays no role in this situation.
You had a good point and a good criticism to the mainstream user behavior. However, The Thread got ruined by fanboys.
No Asari Kenny is a good guy. You don't just throw people away when they're broken.
Leo where did it get ruined? This is one of the calmer threads.
[removed]
Anyone will double their standards for their favorite characters.
Haha Ling I agree with you but other threads are way worse.
Oh, I know. I've read some of them, and this one pales in comparison.
You do throw things away when they're broken though. Otherwise, you're just hoarding.
Well obviously to Clem there is a difference. The differences in the person's size, strength and attitude totally makes the optics of each situation feel different. Clem does not feel empathy or sympathy for Carver but does for Arvo. What other reason would she feel so other than the attributes I said earlier?
It's determinant. It's not mandatory for her to have any sympathy for Arvo, so... For those who didn't show sympathy to him as Clementine, it remains the same. My point may not apply to every situation, but certainly can be applied in some.
Finally something we can agree on.
You should make Joker meme about this Double Standard
LOL Good one.