Is it because you can think of nothing to refute any of the points? Or is it just too over your head, so you need to call bullshit, and say it's not worth it as an attempt to invalidate them, and/or get out of the debate that you started but can't finish? Either way, I'm taking it as you conceding.:)
She put Clem in a situation where she needs to kill a person, she made her kill a living being, and even if some people say it's ok to kill … moreKenny, the endings with Kenny like the one I got prove it otherwise, they do well together and he kept her safe, despite his sanity slowly kissing him goodbye. Jane deserved what she got, mess with the bull and you'll get the horns, especially if you kill its baby and say it to the bull's face to prove a fucking point to another person, which is very fucking dumb, she topped Ben with that shit.
"Anything obtained by killing people can never bring true happiness."
Is it because you can think of nothing to refute any of the points? Or is it just too over your head, so you need to call bullshit, and say … moreit's not worth it as an attempt to invalidate them, and/or get out of the debate that you started but can't finish? Either way, I'm taking it as you conceding.:)
This reasoning describes what some people think is why Kenny acts the way he does. The same people also think it would be better for Kenny to die prematurely based on this reasoning. The reasoning does explain in simple, understandable terms; however, it is incorrect. And in addition, the consensus reached from that reasoning is wrong. Not in the sense that it's incorrect, but unethical.
Ive lived in MN all of my life, and I don't find his argument super-unreasonable from the perspective of shelter = warmth (or at least less wind)
Except for the fact they barely have clothing prepped for a winter like that. A Floridian and a Georgian in Michigan cold like that would pretty much kill them, since they probably aren't prepared to deal with that weather for long periods.
And on top of that, there is a LOT of space between some of the towns, and you probably know that relying on some of the crappy old buildings that some farms have is a surefire way to bite the dust. Even following the Highway, Michigan has a lot of dead space (Truck driver, me know this durr hurr) where there is a high likelihood that they will just fall over and freeze to death.
Overall, he hasn't taken into account ALL of the factors that go into survival in that weather. And god forbid they have to go through Illinois Shudders. Or Wisconsin Cries openly.
For those who don't know, Illinois south of Chicago is fairly vacant. Seriously, hop on a megabus one day and ride through it without falling asleep. Also, Wisconsin is just small towns/medium cities with huge patches of woods on either side of the main highways.
I'd think their best bet is Ohio. Nothing ever happens there anyway.
Well since you are too stubborn to listen to reason, i am not going to continue this debate with you anymore.
Ive been living in cold area for 20 years, you seem to have no idea how to protect yourself from cold.
Let me reiterate what I responded to zykelator with:
"Ive lived in MN all of my life, and I don't find his argument super-unreasonable from the perspective of shelter = warmth (or at least less wind)
Except for the fact they barely have clothing prepped for a winter like that. A Floridian and a Georgian in Michigan cold like that would pretty much kill them, since they probably aren't prepared to deal with that weather for long periods.
And on top of that, there is a LOT of space between some of the towns, and you probably know that relying on some of the crappy old buildings that some farms have is a surefire way to bite the dust. Even following the Highway, Michigan has a lot of dead space (Truck driver, me know this durr hurr) where there is a high likelihood that they will just fall over and freeze to death.
Overall, he hasn't taken into account ALL of the factors that go into survival in that weather. And god forbid they have to go through Illinois Shudders. Or Wisconsin Cries openly.
For those who don't know, Illinois south of Chicago is fairly vacant. Seriously, hop on a megabus one day and ride through it without falling asleep. Also, Wisconsin is just small towns/medium cities with huge patches of woods on either side of the main highways.
I'd think their best bet is Ohio. Nothing ever happens there anyway."
And also i'd like to point out that a lot of buildings that you find in the suburbs/small cities/towns are a lot of cookie cutter houses. The ones that are most likely to be in the least disrepair are also the most likely to be filled with a lot of partially frozen dead people who were seeking refuge there, or even by other people.
The problem with cookie cutter houses is they degrade rapidly, they fall apart, they disintegrate. A lot of them are multi-level, which means your not getting up or down those moldy, decrepit stairs.
Also, there is a lot of wilderness, and a lot of large animals that don't see windows as a great obstacle. Wildlife breaks things, nature breaks things, and other people will break things.
The likliehood of finding a suitable house to even sleep the night in with all of that in-between area that isn't infested, defended, or rotting out is slim to none. Take a road trip on I-39 North up near Chicago, hit I-90 & I-94 westbound through Wisconsin/MN. When you aren't in a large city that is probably too unsafe to inhabit, your in a small town that's likely looted/decrepit or in the middle of nowhere.
And since Michigan is a bankrupt state, basically, it'll be even worse than all the other states mentioned.
Well, like I said before... Most of the houses couldn´t have broken windows or door, because of humans evacuating quickly in the cities and … morebecause most pets, if the owner’s in the house even have one, could leave the house on their own because of various reasons that are on my last post.
That may be true, but one thing you have to know is that atheism is too wide an umbrella term to be classified justly as "this" or "that". There are many types of atheism sects. You are right however, that atheism can be a from of religion like Buddhism, which is more or less described as an atheistic religion depending on the the sect, but not necessarily always. Believing or disbelieving in a deity or anything supernatural is not enough to warrant being called a religion. A person for instance can still believe in a form of higher power whilst being irreligious.
Also, one celebrating a holiday, their birthday, or leaning science, evolution, etc. does not constitute them being religious, or atheism as a whole as being a religion.
Implicit atheism (weak atheist), agnosticism, agnostic atheism, ect. fall under the term of being irreligious, which is the absence of religion or an indifference to it. An implicit atheist is someone who lacks the idea of the existence of a deity without being conscious of it. Some agnostics also describe themselves as atheists (agnostic atheists) in which they don't believe in a deity due to the lack of knowledge and that it is currently unknowable in principle.
Is it because you can think of nothing to refute any of the points? Or is it just too over your head, so you need to call bullshit, and say … moreit's not worth it as an attempt to invalidate them, and/or get out of the debate that you started but can't finish? Either way, I'm taking it as you conceding.:)
That is a good point. I am aware that there are Atheists who are agnostic, or just indifferent to religion in general. I'm mainly addressing the more vocal side of Atheism(which can arguably be considered the majority in a sense), the ones who are adamant about the nonexistence of God and "enlightening" people who think differently, insisting that Theists are wrong/refuse to see reason/ignorant/anti science etc. When these Atheists rail against Theists, they are using the same fervor the religious use when making their claims against a secular society. But you are correct in some aspects, I should have been a bit more clear in what parts of Atheism I was addressing.
@Tinni
That may be true, but one thing you have to know is that atheism is too wide an umbrella term to be classified justly as "this" or… more "that". There are many types of atheism sects. You are right however, that atheism can be a from of religion like Buddhism, which is more or less described as an atheistic religion depending on the the sect, but not necessarily always. Believing or disbelieving in a deity or anything supernatural is not enough to warrant being called a religion. A person for instance can still believe in a form of higher power whilst being irreligious.
Also, one celebrating a holiday, their birthday, or leaning science, evolution, etc. does not constitute them being religious, or atheism as a whole as being a religion.
Implicit atheism (weak atheist), agnosticism, agnostic atheism, ect. fall under the term of being irreligious, which is the absence of religion or an indifference to it. An implicit atheist is someone … [view original content]
That is a good point. I am aware that there are Atheists who are agnostic, or just indifferent to religion in general. I'm mainly addressing… more the more vocal side of Atheism(which can arguably be considered the majority in a sense), the ones who are adamant about the nonexistence of God and "enlightening" people who think differently, insisting that Theists are wrong/refuse to see reason/ignorant/anti science etc. When these Atheists rail against Theists, they are using the same fervor the religious use when making their claims against a secular society. But you are correct in some aspects, I should have been a bit more clear in what parts of Atheism I was addressing.
Try to form proper sentences. It was quite hard to read your message.
God of the gaps huh? That is pretty lame argument.
Every human (… morehealthy in mind) can feel sympathy/empathy towards other humans and even some other animals and thats were we get out moral values from. You could say that you got yours from old dusty book, but i seriously doubt that, because bible is full of crazy, immoral stuff.
I call people whatever fits. I don't see another more fitting term to the amount of irrationality people bring into discussions because there isn't much difference to mental retardation at this stage.
But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on whatsoever, therefore I can't say that he could've been saved, but you can't say that he couldn't have been saved either.
No proof besides the living beings themselves? I really feel insulted that you think it's an impossible occurrence. You would only truly kno… morew if you were in Larry's situation really, because not everyone is fully the same.
That Larry could be brought back with only CPR, not proper medical attention is your opinion, and a big stretch. Also, that other people survived a heart attack with only CPR doesn´t mean anything, because these people may not have a heart attack as intense as Larry´s heart attack.
Arguing with a bite victim when they're running out of time and trying to find a little girl whose with a complete stranger that's hardly being a douchebag to Lee? Lee's time is running out, Clementine is in danger and Kenny starts an argument? That's not being a douchebag?
So his attitude changes? Took him a while to figure out that his friend needed his help to find the one person he cares about.
We don't know if he would've apologized sooner, plus if you take him with you, he doesn't apologize sooner.
You forget that he started drinking in Episode 3, continued in episode 4 and could've drank before Lee showed up if he didn't come with you.
After starting an argument.
He gets carried away, but apologizes. Thats hardly being a douchebang to Lee.
It is completely rel… moreevant. Lee helped Kenny on multiple occasions non-determinantly and Kenny determinantly requires you to convince him into joining him to search for the person you care about after saving his skin and his loved ones skins multiple times? Not to mention in order for him to join you automatically you have to kiss up to him throughout the Season.
It’s irrelevant because this is attitude quickly changes and he helps Lee and the group look for Clem, and that he fells distrust towards Lee for not backing up in grey morality decision, plus is own guilt, is the only reason he can (determinant) not help them search Vernon´s hideout.
A few hours are more than enough time for someone's fate to be sealed, the fact that it took him that long makes it seem like he didn't care that much.
Those few … [view original content]
In Episode 3 we are shown that the medicine is in Lilly's room, when the bandits attack, no one carries the medicine with them to the R.V., therefore they left the medicine behind. We are not shown any use of medicine throughout the rest of episode 3, Omid is injured and if they had medicine don't you think they'd use them instead of talking about how they don't have any medicine in episode 4?
I'm not saying that Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, he had the right to. But wanting someone dead is in no means right or necessary, goes to show how the roles of the living and the dead are swapped.
If you didn't know, in The Walking Dead Universe, a foot is all you need to smash a Walker's head in. It was evident that he also did it for revenge, he even says that he dislikes Larry. Where is the proof that Larry was unsalvageable? You can't go by with opinions on this, we don't know if he could've lived, they could've waited to see, if he was turning they would know and would have enough time to smash his skull in that scenario, but Kenny didn't give Larry a chance.
We weren't shown his good sides, for all we know he was good guy and evidently he was a good man, at least in the perspective of the Howe's Hardware Store Community, Bonnie and everyone else who lived there, even reggie had respect for Carver and they seemed to think of him as a good guy, meaning that he's not a monster, he is a human being.
Well what would you do if your best weapon was knocked down from you and your opponent could've grabbed it to use it against you?
The fact of the matter is, either way is risky, but going against someone who could be telling the truth causes more problems especially with the higher risk.
I never said that Sarita was with Mike and Kenny when you DID cut her arm off, I'm talking about when you DON'T cut her arm off. When you don't cut her arm off, Mike and Kenny escape with Sarita, therefore Mike and Kenny are responsible since they could've chopped her arm off when they got to the woods and were there with Sarita the whole way to Parker's Run. Clementine is not responsible for the infection, Sarita made the decision which lead to her getting bit by a Walker. There was no way Clementine could've stopped this unless Sarita stayed with Clementine.
Jane never meant to kill Kenny, such as Kenny never meant to kill Jane. If you say Jane DID mean to kill Kenny, then Kenny DID mean to kill Jane also. No matter who does it, killing is wrong, it's never the right thing to do, just because it's the only thing to do and the best thing to do doesn't make it right. Kenny IS constantly forgiven. When Larry died most people talk about how Larry was already turning and that Kenny did it to protect people. When he was endangering the group by having false hope for Duck, most people talk about how it's his son and that's to be expected. When he wanted Lee to use the bitten girl as a distraction, most people say that she was already gone and it was beneficial for the group. When Kenny starts the argument with Lee, and was making the group lose time, most people say that Kenny apologizes so that the argument becomes invalid. When Kenny beats Arvo up, people say that Arvo deserved it because he killed lots of people, which wasn't true. When Kenny insults Jane, most people only seem to remember Jane insulting Kenny's family and they say that Jane started the argument. When Kenny finds out about AJ's unknown fate, he automatically comes to conclusions and doesn't let Jane give any sort of explanation, making Jane the bad girl because Kenny is thought to have lost a baby he instantly became attached to a few days ago.
Kenny has done allot of fucked up things, which is my opinion, this doesn't make him a bad character, I like Kenny and you may not believe that but it's the truth, however, he isn't innocent or any better than Jane or Carver.
They practically left the medicine behind... they only used it on the assumptions of what ifs.
They don’t leave the medicine behind.… more
I just going to repeat myself, because you don´t see to understand: They could have needed them, and we are never show the characters doing things like eating or shitting, so I don’t know why you assumed that because we are not show them using the medicine means they don´t use it at all.
I never said it wasn't a good reason to hate him, but I don't see how wanting that person dead is going to solve anything but cause more problems.
You act like Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, it said he had a pretty good reason to hate him. Nothing more.
Oh yeah sure, it's quite coincidental that he smashes Larry's face in when Larry said he'd smash Duck's face in. Kenny only attempted to comfort Lilly once and then he was back to usual self. It seemed to me that Kenny was only saying that to try an… [view original content]
But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on wha… moretsoever, therefore I can't say that he could've been saved, but you can't say that he couldn't have been saved either.
I'm pretty sure after the whole shabang, if Jane actually succeeded in getting Kenny to die or leave, she would of told Clem that the baby is actually still alive. She knows Clem cares about AJ too much to do something like that. I don't think she could of continued on with that on her hands
Well, consider this. What if the baby had not cry after Kenny kills Jane?
Spoiler Alert=Neither Kenny nor Clem knows that Jane leaved the baby in a car, so AJ dies.
Ive lived in MN all of my life, and I don't find his argument super-unreasonable from the perspective of shelter = warmth (or at least less … morewind)
Except for the fact they barely have clothing prepped for a winter like that. A Floridian and a Georgian in Michigan cold like that would pretty much kill them, since they probably aren't prepared to deal with that weather for long periods.
And on top of that, there is a LOT of space between some of the towns, and you probably know that relying on some of the crappy old buildings that some farms have is a surefire way to bite the dust. Even following the Highway, Michigan has a lot of dead space (Truck driver, me know this durr hurr) where there is a high likelihood that they will just fall over and freeze to death.
Overall, he hasn't taken into account ALL of the factors that go into survival in that weather. And god forbid they have to go through Illinois Shudders. Or Wisconsin Cries … [view original content]
I'm pretty sure after the whole shabang, if Jane actually succeeded in getting Kenny to die or leave
She never wanted Kenny to leave, just kill him.
she would of told Clem that the baby is actually still alive. She knows Clem cares about AJ too much to do something like that. I don't think she could of continued on with that on her hands
So you are basically admiting that Jane doesn´t give a fuck about the baby?
I'm pretty sure after the whole shabang, if Jane actually succeeded in getting Kenny to die or leave, she would of told Clem that the baby i… mores actually still alive. She knows Clem cares about AJ too much to do something like that. I don't think she could of continued on with that on her hands
What? When did I say Jane didn't give a fuck about the baby? Jane goes back to Howe's just for the baby -_- Now you're just putting words in my mouth. And btw ... she didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave... Watch the episode again.
I'm pretty sure after the whole shabang, if Jane actually succeeded in getting Kenny to die or leave
She never wanted Kenny to leave… more, just kill him.
she would of told Clem that the baby is actually still alive. She knows Clem cares about AJ too much to do something like that. I don't think she could of continued on with that on her hands
So you are basically admiting that Jane doesn´t give a fuck about the baby?
Case closed.
What? When did I say Jane didn't give a fuck about the baby? Jane goes back to Howe's just for the baby -_- Now you're just putting words in… more my mouth. And btw ... she didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave... Watch the episode again.
In Episode 3 we are shown that the medicine is in Lilly's room, when the bandits attack, no one carries the medicine with them to the R.V., therefore they left the medicine behind. We are not shown any use of medicine throughout the rest of episode 3, Omid is injured and if they had medicine don't you think they'd use them instead of talking about how they don't have any medicine in episode 4?
They are forced to leave the medicine behind.
Note the forced part.
I'm not saying that Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, he had the right to. But wanting someone dead is in no means right or necessary, goes to show how the roles of the living and the dead are swapped.
His family got killed because Ben was a idiot. Its not necessary, of course, but what do you expected? That they be best friends forever?
If you didn't know, in The Walking Dead Universe, a foot is all you need to smash a Walker's head in.
Because everyone is going to risk geting that close.
It was evident that he also did it for revenge, he even says that he dislikes Larry. Where is the proof that Larry was unsalvageable? You can't go by with opinions on this, we don't know if he could've lived, they could've waited to see, if he was turning they would know and would have enough time to smash his skull in that scenario, but Kenny didn't give Larry a chance.
They were trapped in a small room, weapon less with no proper medical attention for Larry. So yes, Larry was unsalvageable.
We weren't shown his good sides, for all we know he was good guy and evidently he was a good man, at least in the perspective of the Howe's Hardware Store Community, Bonnie and everyone else who lived there, even reggie had respect for Carver and they seemed to think of him as a good guy, meaning that he's not a monster, he is a human being.
Bonnie ´his alive because of him´, so she makes excuses for Carver. Reggie doesn´t respect Carver, he fears him.
Well what would you do if your best weapon was knocked down from you and your opponent could've grabbed it to use it against you?
You are ignoring that the knife was it its sheath, not knocked down.
The fact of the matter is, either way is risky, but going against someone who could be telling the truth causes more problems especially with the higher risk.
If Carver had be lying, and Kenny had given himself out, them he could have killed Kenny and the group couldn´t have anybody to defend them.
I never said that Sarita was with Mike and Kenny when you DID cut her arm off, I'm talking about when you DON'T cut her arm off. When you don't cut her arm off, Mike and Kenny escape with Sarita, therefore Mike and Kenny are responsible since they could've chopped her arm off when they got to the woods and were there with Sarita the whole way to Parker's Run.
We don´t know their situation. For all we know, they were slowed down by the walkers at by the time they got to the woods, it was to late.
Clementine is not responsible for the infection, Sarita made the decision which lead to her getting bit by a Walker. There was no way Clementine could've stopped this unless Sarita stayed with Clementine.
Cutting her arm off in the middle of walker herd is a stupid move that´s leads to Sarita´s death, so yes, Clem is at fault.
Jane never meant to kill Kenny
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
When Larry died most people talk about how Larry was already turning and that Kenny did it to protect people.
Without proper medical attention, the second Larry dropped to the ground he was as good as dead, so yes, Larry was going to turn and he did it protect them.
When he was endangering the group by having false hope for Duck, most people talk about how it's his son and that's to be expected.
That´s not forgiving him, that´s understanding him.
When he wanted Lee to use the bitten girl as a distraction, most people say that she was already gone and it was beneficial for the group.
That she was 'already gone and it was beneficial for the group´ is a fact.
When Kenny starts the argument with Lee, and was making the group lose time, most people say that Kenny apologizes so that the argument becomes invalid.
He was not making the group lose time. When he stars the argument, the group is doing nothing.
When Kenny beats Arvo up, people say that Arvo deserved it because he killed lots of people, which wasn't true.
In the only case, he had reasons for doing it. People say Arvo deserved him because he lead´s the group of Russians to Clem´s group even if you don´t steal for him.
When Kenny insults Jane, most people only seem to remember Jane insulting Kenny's family and they say that Jane started the argument.
Jane started the argument.
Jane: "Bet you are having problems seeing a lot of things these days."
She was the first one to make him personal, whatever you like it or not. Also, she even has the nerve to say he is just another asshole tried to save dead people when he is tried to control himself, rubs him his face that he couldn´t even see Sarita being bitten or killed, said that nobody could love him and that AJ is scared to death of him, said that Sarita talked behind his back and was afraid of him and so is Clementine, when he has done nothing but protect her when nobody else did since he first appeared this season, that every time someone around him dies is his fault and that everyone knows it. She was looking for a fight to dead well before she pretended that AJ was dead.
When Kenny finds out about AJ's unknown fate, he automatically comes to conclusions and doesn't let Jane give any sort of explanation, making Jane the bad girl because Kenny is thought to have lost a baby he instantly became attached to a few days ago.
Jane is the´bad girl´ because she was lying, because she hid the baby him a car risking that he be bitten or freeze to death, because she could have stoped the figth by running to the car and didn´t. That Kenny ended up taking the advantange and stabbing her does not make Jane a victim.
Kenny has done allot of fucked up things
Fucked up things, really? Name one thats more fucked up that faking a baby´s death to kill Kenny.
In Episode 3 we are shown that the medicine is in Lilly's room, when the bandits attack, no one carries the medicine with them to the R.V., … moretherefore they left the medicine behind. We are not shown any use of medicine throughout the rest of episode 3, Omid is injured and if they had medicine don't you think they'd use them instead of talking about how they don't have any medicine in episode 4?
I'm not saying that Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, he had the right to. But wanting someone dead is in no means right or necessary, goes to show how the roles of the living and the dead are swapped.
If you didn't know, in The Walking Dead Universe, a foot is all you need to smash a Walker's head in. It was evident that he also did it for revenge, he even says that he dislikes Larry. Where is the proof that Larry was unsalvageable? You can't go by with opinions on this, we don't know if he could've lived, they could've waited to see, if he was turn… [view original content]
What? When did I say Jane didn't give a fuck about the baby? Jane goes back to Howe's just for the baby -_- Now you're just putting words in… more my mouth. And btw ... she didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave... Watch the episode again.
Well not exactly, besides, are you sure about that? Not sure you were there for the big freak-out. Definitely wasn't as strong as with Kenny, because he was a likable guy, but Sarah was deliberately meant to be viewed as strange or somehow not right, and delicate to a fault.
Kenny's adapted aggressively and ruthlessly to a point, while Sarah is on the opposite side of that spectrum. For this reason or other, whether nature or nurture, she has under-adapted to the point where it would take a lot of patience and time to give her a leg-up and catching up to par with the others. Coupled with the immediate, fatal danger of the do-or-die situation they found themselves in hinging upon her ability to cope and follow directions, it's completely understandable why someone might just ditch her rather than risk taking too much time getting her to move. It's an awful situation to be in, so I can't begrudge anybody for making that choice. My sympathy for the people who didn't make that choice lightly.
Instead of "broken", Sarah is viewed as "beyond help" to certain people, which is simply incorrect. It's better than just leaving her for the simple reason that she's been "odd" and otherwise difficult to deal with throughout the time the player had known her.
Arguing with a bite victim when they're running out of time and trying to find a little girl whose with a complete stranger that's hardly being a douchebag to Lee? Lee's time is running out, Clementine is in danger and Kenny starts an argument? That's not being a douchebag?
I already explained this.
So his attitude changes? Took him a while to figure out that his friend needed his help to find the one person he cares about.
He feels guilty and distrust´s Lee if (determinately) he doesn´t back him up on a grey morality choice. How many times do I need to repeat this?
We don't know if he would've apologized sooner, plus if you take him with you, he doesn't apologize sooner.
They were kind of too 'busy' to apologize. You know, Walkers and escaping the roof and surviving the attack am the house.
You forget that he started drinking in Episode 3, continued in episode 4 and could've drank before Lee showed up if he didn't come with you.
You forget that he was not drunk in the argument nor when he apologized.
Arguing with a bite victim when they're running out of time and trying to find a little girl whose with a complete stranger that's hardly be… moreing a douchebag to Lee? Lee's time is running out, Clementine is in danger and Kenny starts an argument? That's not being a douchebag?
So his attitude changes? Took him a while to figure out that his friend needed his help to find the one person he cares about.
We don't know if he would've apologized sooner, plus if you take him with you, he doesn't apologize sooner.
You forget that he started drinking in Episode 3, continued in episode 4 and could've drank before Lee showed up if he didn't come with you.
I call people whatever fits. I don't see another more fitting term to the amount of irrationality people bring into discussions because there isn't much difference to mental retardation at this stage.
As I said, season 1 isn't determinant, even if you are being an "evil" Clementine, some values stick to you and are bold since a young age, there is not true version of Clementine, but some are more rational that others, and according to Season one, it is more logical for her to be a good person, as she said that you just do not leave friends behind in episode 4.
I shoulda known an argument with a Kenny die-hard was gonna go like this... If Jane didn't care about the baby don't you think she would've left already? "She didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave" is true.
Jane: "Just go"
Kenny: "I ain't goin' nowhere"
Once Jane saw that there was nothing to stop Kenny, that's when she proceeded to fight Kenny
What? When did I say Jane didn't give a fuck about the baby?
Because you said that Jane could have told her because of Clementine, n… moreot because Jane actually gives a fuck about the baby.
Jane goes back to Howe's just for the baby -
Just for Clementine, and because Clementine cares about the baby, not because Jane care about the baby.
she didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave...
False.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
Comments
Is it because you can think of nothing to refute any of the points? Or is it just too over your head, so you need to call bullshit, and say it's not worth it as an attempt to invalidate them, and/or get out of the debate that you started but can't finish? Either way, I'm taking it as you conceding.:)
I dont care what you think. When i am sure that the person im talking with is delusional (or just a troll), i just walk away.
Sorry, Guys, I had to say that.
WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS GOING ON IN THIS THREAD?!!
Doesnt matter what i reply, i wouldnt achieve anything anyway so its not worth the time.
The basic point of the post is that Atheism is in fact a religion, are you saying you can't achieve disproving this?
This reasoning describes what some people think is why Kenny acts the way he does. The same people also think it would be better for Kenny to die prematurely based on this reasoning. The reasoning does explain in simple, understandable terms; however, it is incorrect. And in addition, the consensus reached from that reasoning is wrong. Not in the sense that it's incorrect, but unethical.
Ive lived in MN all of my life, and I don't find his argument super-unreasonable from the perspective of shelter = warmth (or at least less wind)
Except for the fact they barely have clothing prepped for a winter like that. A Floridian and a Georgian in Michigan cold like that would pretty much kill them, since they probably aren't prepared to deal with that weather for long periods.
And on top of that, there is a LOT of space between some of the towns, and you probably know that relying on some of the crappy old buildings that some farms have is a surefire way to bite the dust. Even following the Highway, Michigan has a lot of dead space (Truck driver, me know this durr hurr) where there is a high likelihood that they will just fall over and freeze to death.
Overall, he hasn't taken into account ALL of the factors that go into survival in that weather. And god forbid they have to go through Illinois Shudders. Or Wisconsin Cries openly.
For those who don't know, Illinois south of Chicago is fairly vacant. Seriously, hop on a megabus one day and ride through it without falling asleep. Also, Wisconsin is just small towns/medium cities with huge patches of woods on either side of the main highways.
I'd think their best bet is Ohio. Nothing ever happens there anyway.
Dammit Your Right...
Let me reiterate what I responded to zykelator with:
"Ive lived in MN all of my life, and I don't find his argument super-unreasonable from the perspective of shelter = warmth (or at least less wind)
Except for the fact they barely have clothing prepped for a winter like that. A Floridian and a Georgian in Michigan cold like that would pretty much kill them, since they probably aren't prepared to deal with that weather for long periods.
And on top of that, there is a LOT of space between some of the towns, and you probably know that relying on some of the crappy old buildings that some farms have is a surefire way to bite the dust. Even following the Highway, Michigan has a lot of dead space (Truck driver, me know this durr hurr) where there is a high likelihood that they will just fall over and freeze to death.
Overall, he hasn't taken into account ALL of the factors that go into survival in that weather. And god forbid they have to go through Illinois Shudders. Or Wisconsin Cries openly.
For those who don't know, Illinois south of Chicago is fairly vacant. Seriously, hop on a megabus one day and ride through it without falling asleep. Also, Wisconsin is just small towns/medium cities with huge patches of woods on either side of the main highways.
I'd think their best bet is Ohio. Nothing ever happens there anyway."
And also i'd like to point out that a lot of buildings that you find in the suburbs/small cities/towns are a lot of cookie cutter houses. The ones that are most likely to be in the least disrepair are also the most likely to be filled with a lot of partially frozen dead people who were seeking refuge there, or even by other people.
The problem with cookie cutter houses is they degrade rapidly, they fall apart, they disintegrate. A lot of them are multi-level, which means your not getting up or down those moldy, decrepit stairs.
Also, there is a lot of wilderness, and a lot of large animals that don't see windows as a great obstacle. Wildlife breaks things, nature breaks things, and other people will break things.
The likliehood of finding a suitable house to even sleep the night in with all of that in-between area that isn't infested, defended, or rotting out is slim to none. Take a road trip on I-39 North up near Chicago, hit I-90 & I-94 westbound through Wisconsin/MN. When you aren't in a large city that is probably too unsafe to inhabit, your in a small town that's likely looted/decrepit or in the middle of nowhere.
And since Michigan is a bankrupt state, basically, it'll be even worse than all the other states mentioned.
I guess I can't complain.
I only wish that you would accept a more accepting view point on the matter.
@Tinni
That may be true, but one thing you have to know is that atheism is too wide an umbrella term to be classified justly as "this" or "that". There are many types of atheism sects. You are right however, that atheism can be a from of religion like Buddhism, which is more or less described as an atheistic religion depending on the the sect, but not necessarily always. Believing or disbelieving in a deity or anything supernatural is not enough to warrant being called a religion. A person for instance can still believe in a form of higher power whilst being irreligious.
Also, one celebrating a holiday, their birthday, or leaning science, evolution, etc. does not constitute them being religious, or atheism as a whole as being a religion.
Implicit atheism (weak atheist), agnosticism, agnostic atheism, ect. fall under the term of being irreligious, which is the absence of religion or an indifference to it. An implicit atheist is someone who lacks the idea of the existence of a deity without being conscious of it. Some agnostics also describe themselves as atheists (agnostic atheists) in which they don't believe in a deity due to the lack of knowledge and that it is currently unknowable in principle.
If the option is there then it is determinately apart of her personality. There no one single "true" Clem of season 2.
That is a good point. I am aware that there are Atheists who are agnostic, or just indifferent to religion in general. I'm mainly addressing the more vocal side of Atheism(which can arguably be considered the majority in a sense), the ones who are adamant about the nonexistence of God and "enlightening" people who think differently, insisting that Theists are wrong/refuse to see reason/ignorant/anti science etc. When these Atheists rail against Theists, they are using the same fervor the religious use when making their claims against a secular society. But you are correct in some aspects, I should have been a bit more clear in what parts of Atheism I was addressing.
Ah, I see. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Oh, it's no problem at all. I can see how it was perceived I was talking about Atheism as a whole, I didn't exactly clarify on that.:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
I call people whatever fits. I don't see another more fitting term to the amount of irrationality people bring into discussions because there isn't much difference to mental retardation at this stage.
When Clem tells Jane to back off, Jane says "Time to put this crusty old piece of shit out of his misery" when they leave the building.
Hmm, who should I pick? The unstable introlerant dangerous fucker Kenny, or the selfish, also unstable, stupid fucker Jane?
Meh, prefer to be on my own.
It felt good shooting Kenny, he had it coming from season one. And I forgave Jane and told that family to leave. My Clem is Awesome.
Those eyes don't fool me.
But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on whatsoever, therefore I can't say that he could've been saved, but you can't say that he couldn't have been saved either.
Arguing with a bite victim when they're running out of time and trying to find a little girl whose with a complete stranger that's hardly being a douchebag to Lee? Lee's time is running out, Clementine is in danger and Kenny starts an argument? That's not being a douchebag?
So his attitude changes? Took him a while to figure out that his friend needed his help to find the one person he cares about.
We don't know if he would've apologized sooner, plus if you take him with you, he doesn't apologize sooner.
You forget that he started drinking in Episode 3, continued in episode 4 and could've drank before Lee showed up if he didn't come with you.
In Episode 3 we are shown that the medicine is in Lilly's room, when the bandits attack, no one carries the medicine with them to the R.V., therefore they left the medicine behind. We are not shown any use of medicine throughout the rest of episode 3, Omid is injured and if they had medicine don't you think they'd use them instead of talking about how they don't have any medicine in episode 4?
I'm not saying that Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, he had the right to. But wanting someone dead is in no means right or necessary, goes to show how the roles of the living and the dead are swapped.
If you didn't know, in The Walking Dead Universe, a foot is all you need to smash a Walker's head in. It was evident that he also did it for revenge, he even says that he dislikes Larry. Where is the proof that Larry was unsalvageable? You can't go by with opinions on this, we don't know if he could've lived, they could've waited to see, if he was turning they would know and would have enough time to smash his skull in that scenario, but Kenny didn't give Larry a chance.
We weren't shown his good sides, for all we know he was good guy and evidently he was a good man, at least in the perspective of the Howe's Hardware Store Community, Bonnie and everyone else who lived there, even reggie had respect for Carver and they seemed to think of him as a good guy, meaning that he's not a monster, he is a human being.
Well what would you do if your best weapon was knocked down from you and your opponent could've grabbed it to use it against you?
The fact of the matter is, either way is risky, but going against someone who could be telling the truth causes more problems especially with the higher risk.
I never said that Sarita was with Mike and Kenny when you DID cut her arm off, I'm talking about when you DON'T cut her arm off. When you don't cut her arm off, Mike and Kenny escape with Sarita, therefore Mike and Kenny are responsible since they could've chopped her arm off when they got to the woods and were there with Sarita the whole way to Parker's Run. Clementine is not responsible for the infection, Sarita made the decision which lead to her getting bit by a Walker. There was no way Clementine could've stopped this unless Sarita stayed with Clementine.
Jane never meant to kill Kenny, such as Kenny never meant to kill Jane. If you say Jane DID mean to kill Kenny, then Kenny DID mean to kill Jane also. No matter who does it, killing is wrong, it's never the right thing to do, just because it's the only thing to do and the best thing to do doesn't make it right. Kenny IS constantly forgiven. When Larry died most people talk about how Larry was already turning and that Kenny did it to protect people. When he was endangering the group by having false hope for Duck, most people talk about how it's his son and that's to be expected. When he wanted Lee to use the bitten girl as a distraction, most people say that she was already gone and it was beneficial for the group. When Kenny starts the argument with Lee, and was making the group lose time, most people say that Kenny apologizes so that the argument becomes invalid. When Kenny beats Arvo up, people say that Arvo deserved it because he killed lots of people, which wasn't true. When Kenny insults Jane, most people only seem to remember Jane insulting Kenny's family and they say that Jane started the argument. When Kenny finds out about AJ's unknown fate, he automatically comes to conclusions and doesn't let Jane give any sort of explanation, making Jane the bad girl because Kenny is thought to have lost a baby he instantly became attached to a few days ago.
Kenny has done allot of fucked up things, which is my opinion, this doesn't make him a bad character, I like Kenny and you may not believe that but it's the truth, however, he isn't innocent or any better than Jane or Carver.
"Over time." Not 5 minutes
Well, consider this. What if the baby had not cry after Kenny kills Jane?
Spoiler Alert=Neither Kenny nor Clem knows that Jane leaved the baby in a car, so AJ dies.
This here is you basically admitting that Kenny was justified in killing Larry.
Case closed.
I'm pretty sure after the whole shabang, if Jane actually succeeded in getting Kenny to die or leave, she would of told Clem that the baby is actually still alive. She knows Clem cares about AJ too much to do something like that. I don't think she could of continued on with that on her hands
Does all of this means looking for Wellington = death sentence?
Nope.
She never wanted Kenny to leave, just kill him.
So you are basically admiting that Jane doesn´t give a fuck about the baby?
Case closed.
Pretty much the same with me. Only difference is I let the family in just to make things more interesting.
What? When did I say Jane didn't give a fuck about the baby? Jane goes back to Howe's just for the baby -_- Now you're just putting words in my mouth. And btw ... she didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave... Watch the episode again.
Some people are delusional and can't think objectively.
They are forced to leave the medicine behind.
Note the forced part.
His family got killed because Ben was a idiot. Its not necessary, of course, but what do you expected? That they be best friends forever?
Because everyone is going to risk geting that close.
They were trapped in a small room, weapon less with no proper medical attention for Larry. So yes, Larry was unsalvageable.
Bonnie ´his alive because of him´, so she makes excuses for Carver. Reggie doesn´t respect Carver, he fears him.
You are ignoring that the knife was it its sheath, not knocked down.
If Carver had be lying, and Kenny had given himself out, them he could have killed Kenny and the group couldn´t have anybody to defend them.
We don´t know their situation. For all we know, they were slowed down by the walkers at by the time they got to the woods, it was to late.
Cutting her arm off in the middle of walker herd is a stupid move that´s leads to Sarita´s death, so yes, Clem is at fault.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
Without proper medical attention, the second Larry dropped to the ground he was as good as dead, so yes, Larry was going to turn and he did it protect them.
That´s not forgiving him, that´s understanding him.
That she was 'already gone and it was beneficial for the group´ is a fact.
He was not making the group lose time. When he stars the argument, the group is doing nothing.
In the only case, he had reasons for doing it. People say Arvo deserved him because he lead´s the group of Russians to Clem´s group even if you don´t steal for him.
Jane started the argument.
Jane: "Bet you are having problems seeing a lot of things these days."
She was the first one to make him personal, whatever you like it or not. Also, she even has the nerve to say he is just another asshole tried to save dead people when he is tried to control himself, rubs him his face that he couldn´t even see Sarita being bitten or killed, said that nobody could love him and that AJ is scared to death of him, said that Sarita talked behind his back and was afraid of him and so is Clementine, when he has done nothing but protect her when nobody else did since he first appeared this season, that every time someone around him dies is his fault and that everyone knows it. She was looking for a fight to dead well before she pretended that AJ was dead.
Jane is the´bad girl´ because she was lying, because she hid the baby him a car risking that he be bitten or freeze to death, because she could have stoped the figth by running to the car and didn´t. That Kenny ended up taking the advantange and stabbing her does not make Jane a victim.
Fucked up things, really? Name one thats more fucked up that faking a baby´s death to kill Kenny.
And? Nobody is innocent.
Well, thats like, your opinion man.
This makes me laugth.
Because you said that Jane could have told her because of Clementine, not because Jane actually gives a fuck about the baby.
Just for Clementine, and because Clementine cares about the baby, not because Jane care about the baby.
False.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
Well not exactly, besides, are you sure about that? Not sure you were there for the big freak-out. Definitely wasn't as strong as with Kenny, because he was a likable guy, but Sarah was deliberately meant to be viewed as strange or somehow not right, and delicate to a fault.
Kenny's adapted aggressively and ruthlessly to a point, while Sarah is on the opposite side of that spectrum. For this reason or other, whether nature or nurture, she has under-adapted to the point where it would take a lot of patience and time to give her a leg-up and catching up to par with the others. Coupled with the immediate, fatal danger of the do-or-die situation they found themselves in hinging upon her ability to cope and follow directions, it's completely understandable why someone might just ditch her rather than risk taking too much time getting her to move. It's an awful situation to be in, so I can't begrudge anybody for making that choice. My sympathy for the people who didn't make that choice lightly.
Instead of "broken", Sarah is viewed as "beyond help" to certain people, which is simply incorrect. It's better than just leaving her for the simple reason that she's been "odd" and otherwise difficult to deal with throughout the time the player had known her.
I already explained this.
He feels guilty and distrust´s Lee if (determinately) he doesn´t back him up on a grey morality choice. How many times do I need to repeat this?
They were kind of too 'busy' to apologize. You know, Walkers and escaping the roof and surviving the attack am the house.
You forget that he was not drunk in the argument nor when he apologized.
No it is not, retardations is a whole other thing.
I would like to politely ask you to stop calling people retarded, thanks.
As I said, season 1 isn't determinant, even if you are being an "evil" Clementine, some values stick to you and are bold since a young age, there is not true version of Clementine, but some are more rational that others, and according to Season one, it is more logical for her to be a good person, as she said that you just do not leave friends behind in episode 4.
I shoulda known an argument with a Kenny die-hard was gonna go like this... If Jane didn't care about the baby don't you think she would've left already? "She didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave" is true.
Jane: "Just go"
Kenny: "I ain't goin' nowhere"
Once Jane saw that there was nothing to stop Kenny, that's when she proceeded to fight Kenny