Kenny is the only one that he cares about Clementine and AJ.
Saying something over and over dosnt make it true and I have to admit your very very biased, others cared about clementine and there were times Kenny didnt Also how biased are your luke and jane sections?
And AGAIN this isnt even a disucssion about whether hes a good person or not or if you like him or if you went with him its about how his character was used this season. Also people like you are a good hint to the problems you only think only Kenny cares as the writers herofied him at the end while removing all the other characters or discrediting them often at random while removing pretty much all Kenny's negative attributes
What?
Kenny doesn't overshadow the rest of the cast!
Look here:
* Nick: Nick was a good man. He had once protected Clementine. I… more think, he would be a good protector for Clementine, but not for long. Clementine had to bring back Nick, because Nick was drunk. I wish he hadn't died. Nick was better than Luke.
* Uncle Pete: Uncle Pete was a good uncle. Maybe he would have opportunities for Clementine and AJ, but unfortunately he died early.
* Luke: Luke would never stand close to Clementine, because Luke has no idea how to protect a child. In addition, Luke chose Jane. Luke fell in love with Jane.
* Jane: Jane and her sneaky way. You can't trust her. She left the group and came back. Jane would run away again and let Clementine alone with AJ. Especially AJ. Jane has left alone in the car AJ. What if AJ would die from the cold or a walker would find AJ in the car and bite. And Jane says nothing what happened to the baby. Jane'… [view original content]
Round 1 -
Most of your points are just saying how the characters have reacted. How do they disprove what I said? I just listed off some characters that have reacted less than Kenny. You telling me how they reacted didn't really tell me anything - because I know how they reacted. You really had to tell me how they exaggerated more than Kenny, not, how did they feel after there loss.
The only viable one was Nick's and Nick didn't even lost the will to live, he survived for a reason. And that still isn't as bad as what Kenny does when he loses someone. For example, if you cut Sarita's hand - Kenny will make a speech about Clementine and cause her to cry. If you do not help Pete - Nick will just you could've helped him and nothing more. He drinks a few cups and starts going crazy. Nick become crazy because of the drink, whereas Kenny had nothing to drink.
Also, what does Matthew's death have to do with Nick losing Pete?
Lee wasn't as upset when he lost his brother,
Lee did not know is brother was going to die for hours, he did not watch his brother g… moreet worse and worse, he did not desperately think that it could be different, that it could not happen to him too. But Kenny knew that Duck was going to die, he had to watch Duck get worse and worse, desperately thinking that it could not happen to him too and, most of all, Katjaa killed herself right in front of him and Duck. Kenny can even be forced to shoot Duck himself.
And that´s only in season 1.
Bonnie wasn't as upset when she "lost" Luke,
She does a complete personality turn and/or leaves a child for death.
Rebecca wasn't as upset when she lost Alvin,
Rebecca: Kill him!
And she stayed to watch Kenny kill Carver, regardless of what you do, without even flinching.
Luke wasn't even SLIGHTLY upset when he lost Nick,
Luke: How did we get here? Sittin' in t… [view original content]
Woodbury also causes us to lose immerse within the comic books or the TV series, but much less so than Wellington - as Woodbury were literally a community built up by the remains of infrastructure and whatnot unlike Wellington, where they built community made up of iron crates and seemingly impenetrable walls. Also, I never wanted the existence of Woodbury either.
Uh, okay.
Woodbury did not make me lose any immersion at all, but this is a matter of opinion, so let’s drop this.
So are you saying that the sun would not make it cold?
Typo, sorry. I mean to put 'warm' not 'sunny'
Because when the scene with Jane and Kenny fought began, it wasn't at night - it was sunny, and it certainly was cold. Also there's a whole load of other permanent factors that would support my case such as the altitude and the latitude of Wellington, but we have no idea why they are in a geographical sense - so really, I have no idea why it's not cold near Wellington. It could be a number of reasons. I do not know.
The same reason the Russian´s did not kill anybody-writing hax.
Unless, of course, if the writers elaborate of this in the next season. And, well, I have enough faith in Telltale to believe that could be possible.
But there were none at the time, and I'm suppose to take that as a big fat coincidence?
Why could Wellington not take care of the walkers around them?
I never said he should not despair, that is the whole point. He didn't say "Clementine, you would be better off without me.." which, if he wanted Clem be better off without him, he would have done or "Clementine, come with meee.." when you accept his apology, which, if he wanted Clem be better off without him, he would have done. In both those scenarios, Kenny has no opinion, he just goes along with Clementine's choices. You may say..
If Clem wants to come with him, he accepts that because he needs Clem. If Clem doesn´t want to go with him, even feeling scared of him, he just lets her go because of feeling betrayed, useless, worthless.
If Kenny wanted Clementine and AJ to have the best chance - than why didn't he care whether or not Clementine and the baby stay with him or not? Did he not care back then - did he think Clementine leaving and Clementine staying with him would have the same chance - Was he awe struck with amazement that he killed Jane? Kenny certainly didn't care back then.
He cares. Is just that, like I said, he is feeling betrayed, useless, and worthless. He lets Clementine go "impulsively" He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Really? There's a zombie horde in front of Clementine, and she's holding a baby that could become a siren in about 1 second.
And I supposed to think they did not find any walkers in those nine days? Even with the danger of the baby, Clem survived until that point.
OK, I'll give you that. But she still had an opinion on something, she still cared for someone.
I not denying she cares about Clem-thought I think is less love and more like Gollum and the Ring- but Jesus, this response doesn´t have anything to do with your original statement.
But he barely had a relationship with her! I mean my god, he started acting like he was his father at Episode 3. They barely talked in Season 1 (unless they had a secret meeting or something.) Suddenly, Kenny acts as if they were best buds. When they had little to no interaction with each in Season 1, it was all Lee and Kenny.
What? You serious? Nobody really talks with Clem except Lee, but some characters still obviously cared about her all the same. That we are not show their interactions in season 1 doesn´t mean they never talked. Besides, Kenny says t in Season 1 that he cares about Clem as much as he does for his own family. Also, he says that Lee and Clem are welcome to come with him and his family when he is planning of leaving the motor inn. You can say that is more for his friendship with Lee, okay, but its still important.
Besides, you are ignoring how their relapthionship grows in season 2.
Also, a little side note, remember Episode 2's teaser? Seems as if Kenny was going to act stern with her if she didn't try to find him in Episode 2, wonder why that went.
Don´t know, don´t care. The fact is that, if we have to consider all previous version of the script in a argument, we never get anything do. Kenny doesn´t act like this to her in the game, so he doesn´t. Its cannon he doesn´t fell that way.
"You don’t just give up. You stick it out and help the folks you care about." I think Kenny believes suicide is not an option, only death by the hands of another.
Yes. I am not denying that. I am not even saying that he going to kill himself when Clem leaves him, just that is a possibility.
I personally think that Kenny may go an turn on his Savannah state - and become a mindless drone like Sarita said. He lost all of his friends and family in Savannah, and he lost all his friends and family in Wellington - and lost an eye too. Practically the same scenario, right?
Except for the fact that he lost everything once in Season 1, and lost everything again in Season 2. There may be some changes.
But yes, that he could live on, wasting away withouth a care like in Savannah, is a possibility.
Once again - my options may appear a little biased, but I tried to be unbiased. So yeah. Also, I know this is going to start turning into a flame war, so to end this.. I'll just agree with what you said - so we can stop this. Ok? Or no?
Well, we are both being polite here. I see no harm in continuing. But if you really want to stop, then we will stop.
If Woodbury can exist, why not Wellington?
Woodbury also causes us to lose immerse within the comic books or the TV series, but much… more less so than Wellington - as Woodbury were literally a community built up by the remains of infrastructure and whatnot unlike Wellington, where they built community made up of iron crates and seemingly impenetrable walls.
Also, I never wanted the existence of Woodbury either.
Yes.
Yes. To this.
Because it was sunny, not cold.
So are you saying that the sun would not make it cold? Because when the scene with Jane and Kenny fought began, it wasn't at night - it was sunny, and it certainly was cold.
Also there's a whole load of other permanent factors that would support my case such as the altitude and the latitude of Wellington, but we have no idea why they are in a geographical sense - so really, I have no idea why it's not cold near Wellington. It could be a number of reas… [view original content]
Round 1 - Most of your points are just saying how the characters have reacted. How do they disprove what I said? I just listed off some characters that have reacted less than Kenny. You telling me how they reacted didn't really tell me anything - because I know how they reacted. You really had to tell me how they exaggerated more than Kenny, not, how did they feel after there loss.
Well, first of all, I was explained that Lee could not have reacted like Kenny because Kenny´s situation was much worse.
I am saying that Bonnie leaving Clementine to die is much worse than anything Kenny has done.
I am saying that Rebecca enjoys watching Kenny smash Carver´s head with the crowbar, and that is really reacting worse that Kenny.
I am saying that Luke not being upset at all for Nick´s death is wrong-nothing more.
I am saying that Nick loss the will to live, at first, at then kills Matthew.
The only viable one was Nick's and Nick didn't even lost the will to live,
Yes, he did.
At first.
For example, if you cut Sarita's hand - Kenny will make a speech about Clementine and cause her to cry.
Is her arm, not her hand.
Also, I don´t remember Clementine crying.
Also, Kenny making a speech about it is peachy keen in my opinion, because by cutting off her arm Clem killed Sarita.
If you do not help Pete - Nick will just you could've helped him and nothing more.
And?
He drinks a few cups and starts going crazy.
He acts strange and suicidal well before he drinks anything.
Nick become crazy because of the drink, whereas Kenny had nothing to drink.
The things you have to read...
**sigh*
First of all, Nick goes 'crazy' because of Pete´s death.
Second, Kenny doesn´t go 'crazy' when he is talking to Clem about Sarita. He is blaming her, because it was her fault.
Also, what does Matthew's death have to do with Nick losing Pete?
ANOTHER FIGHT?
Round 1 -
Most of your points are just saying how the characters have reacted. How do they disprove what I said? I just … morelisted off some characters that have reacted less than Kenny. You telling me how they reacted didn't really tell me anything - because I know how they reacted. You really had to tell me how they exaggerated more than Kenny, not, how did they feel after there loss.
The only viable one was Nick's and Nick didn't even lost the will to live, he survived for a reason. And that still isn't as bad as what Kenny does when he loses someone. For example, if you cut Sarita's hand - Kenny will make a speech about Clementine and cause her to cry. If you do not help Pete - Nick will just you could've helped him and nothing more. He drinks a few cups and starts going crazy. Nick become crazy because of the drink, whereas Kenny had nothing to drink.
Also, what does Matthew's death have to do with Nick losing Pete?
And AGAIN this isnt even a disucssion about whether hes a good person or not or if you like him or if you went with him its about how his character was used this season.
Are you kidding me? You judge also about the game characters especially about Kenny, that "Kenny's negative attributes" or "Kenny shouldn't have come back".
Also people like you are a good hint to the problems you only think only Kenny cares as the writers herofied him at the end while removing all the other characters or discrediting them often at random while removing pretty much all Kenny's negative attributes.
What negative characteristics has Kenny?
He lost an eye to protect Clementine.
He sacrifices himself for Clementine and AJ to stay in Wellington.
You want to tell me he was bad?
And AGAIN! Of course, Kenny was sometimes aggressive, but for good reason!:
Carlos was beaten by Carver and Carlos had to beat Sarah, because Carver wanted to. Kenny has beaten Carver, yes. That was a good thing, because Carver has damaged Kenny's Eye. I mean, Carver deserves to die.
Kenny wanted to Wellington with the whole group, but none of the group didn't want to Kenny's perspective (Clementine is determinative). And we must not forget Christa wanted to Wellington with Clementine. That is the reason why Kenny was angry and couldn't communicate so well with the group.
Kenny was the only one who could fix the car. What do Mike, Bonnie and Arvo? Try to run away with the car.
Arvo shoots Clementine. Kenny was worried about Clementine.
So
I ask you:
Why is it bad if you let a man alive. He is the only one who cares about you and you know him since Season 1. You can trust him more, because all the others have left Clementine. Honestly, if Kenny dies it sucks because everyone dies, and when Kenny dies like all other then the game is boring. Kenny should stay alive. We have already lost many people, now Kenny also? No!
I honestly don't see Kenny getting out of this alive. He's just one of those characters who will be with you, almost to the end.
Kenny is the only one that he cares about Clementine and AJ.
Saying something over and over dosnt make it true and I have to admit y… moreour very very biased, others cared about clementine and there were times Kenny didnt Also how biased are your luke and jane sections?
And AGAIN this isnt even a disucssion about whether hes a good person or not or if you like him or if you went with him its about how his character was used this season. Also people like you are a good hint to the problems you only think only Kenny cares as the writers herofied him at the end while removing all the other characters or discrediting them often at random while removing pretty much all Kenny's negative attributes
Oh. Ok - I'll continue. This is one of the first times I actually smiled at having an argument.
Why could Wellington not take care of the walkers around them?
Ok - you're right. They probably would take care of the walkers around them.
If Clem wants to come with him, he accepts that because he needs Clem. If Clem doesn´t want to go with him, even feeling scared of him, he just lets her go because of feeling betrayed, useless, worthless.
That doesn't really contradict my point or anything - but that really wasn't my whole point, I was just stating as to what Kenny did, and what I thought someone else might do.
He cares. Is just that, like I said, he is feeling betrayed, useless, and worthless. He lets Clementine go "impulsively" He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Maybe I should have worded it better - I was just asking a bunch of rhetorical questions as to why Kenny didn't try and stop Clementine from doing whatever he didn't want her to do.
And I supposed to think they did not find any walkers in those nine days? Even with the danger of the baby, Clem survived until that point.
But it's only nine days, and by then - without food or anything, the newborn baby would be everything but alive, and that still doesn't negate the fact that the baby and Clementine are in possible danger for going towards the horde.
I not denying she cares about Clem-thought I think is less love and more like Gollum and the Ring- but Jesus, this response doesn´t have anything to do with your original statement.
That someone when I said "she still cared for someone," wasn't Clementine - if that's what you mean by "this response doesn´t have anything to do with your original statement" - it was Jane herself. She cares for herself. Kenny really didn't care about anyone - even himself, and that is what I was referring to.
What? You serious? Nobody really talks with Clem except Lee, but some characters still obviously cared about her all the same. That we are not show their interactions in season 1 doesn´t mean they never talked. Besides, Kenny says t in Season 1 that he cares about Clem as much as he does for his own family. Also, he says that Lee and Clem are welcome to come with him and his family when he is planning of leaving the motor inn. You can say that is more for his friendship with Lee, okay, but its still important.
Besides, you are ignoring how their relapthionship grows in season 2.
There are a few people that Clementine seems to have an interaction with - for example, the two most hated people within the Walking Dead Games, Ben and Duck. Clementine has given Ben stickers and tried to pull him away from arguments (also voting that he stayed in the group when he confessed about the supplies,) - and she put a bug on Duck's pillow, showing childish humor.
Also - I never said Kenny and Clementine never talked, that's why I said, "(unless they had a secret meeting or something.)" Also there relationship in Season 2 just sprouts out of nowhere. They never had a bonding time like Luke or Jane, where they were all alone for a good few minutes. Unless you count the fire place scene, but in my opinion, I don't really consider it as much - which may seem ignorant, and it really is - but it just seemed really awkward in comparison to Luke's or Jane's, Luke's conversations were the only one that was truly good. Jane's and Kenny's were just ok. But back to topic - there relationship extends dramatically starting when Kenny is protective of Clementine at the lodge when Carver holds her at gun point, and when people mistreat her at Carver's camp. Seems a little bit iffy to me, I would have liked Telltale to give Kenny and Clementine a true bonding moment. Instead of Kenny acting like superman for no reason.
Don´t know, don´t care. The fact is that, if we have to consider all previous version of the script in a argument, we never get anything do. Kenny doesn´t act like this to her in the game, so he doesn´t. Its cannon he doesn´t fell that way.
Meh, just something I thought was interesting.
Yes. I am not denying that. I am not even saying that he going to kill himself when Clem leaves him, just that is a possibility.
Can't say anything about that.
Except for the fact that he lost everything once in Season 1, and lost everything again in Season 2. There may be some changes.
But yes, that he could live on, wasting away withouth a care like in Savannah, is a possibility.
Can't say anything either.
Well, we are both being polite here. I see no harm in continuing. But if you really want to stop, then we will stop.
Please don't stop - this is my only form of mental exercise. Without this, I'll go stupid.
Woodbury also causes us to lose immerse within the comic books or the TV series, but much less so than Wellington - as Woodbury were literal… morely a community built up by the remains of infrastructure and whatnot unlike Wellington, where they built community made up of iron crates and seemingly impenetrable walls. Also, I never wanted the existence of Woodbury either.
Uh, okay.
Woodbury did not make me lose any immersion at all, but this is a matter of opinion, so let’s drop this.
So are you saying that the sun would not make it cold?
Typo, sorry. I mean to put 'warm' not 'sunny'
Because when the scene with Jane and Kenny fought began, it wasn't at night - it was sunny, and it certainly was cold. Also there's a whole load of other permanent factors that would support my case such as the altitude and the latitude of Wellington, but we have no idea why they are in a geographical sense - so really, I have no idea why i… [view original content]
No matter what you say, it was bad that instead of trying to get Clementine (and possibly Bonnie) warm, he thought the better plan was to be… moreat on Arvo (which again, I don't mind if the scenario were different).
The priority at that point should've been helping the eleven year old girl from freezing to death.
I am saying that Bonnie leaving Clementine to die is much worse than anything Kenny has done.
Well, first of all, that is purely optional - second of all - leaving Clementine to die is because she didn't help, not strictly because of the death. It was because of our options, and what she did. You may say, "But you talked about Clementine cutting Sarita's arm off, which is optional." Yes, however - I needed to talk about similar situations where the protagonist quietly caused the death of someone in her side. Therefore, I made both of my points - "Nick and Pete" and 'Kenny and Sarita" - an optional choice.
I am saying that Rebecca enjoys watching Kenny smash Carver´s head with the crowbar, and that is really reacting worse that Kenny.
Almost all of Kenny's losses were caused by walkers - and in other cases, he could not smash this specific person's face e.g. a girl who's on your side (optional.) Also, isn't Kenny finding different ways to relieve his stress, such as destroying a zombie's face - or otherwise shouting at a young girl. In addition, Rebecca had the culprit right in Kenny's arms - who's to say Kenny didn't kill a ton of zombie's while they were within the horde, after Sarita's death?
Also, I don´t remember Clementine crying.
Also, Kenny making a speech about it is peachy keen in my opinion, because by cutting off her arm Clem killed Sarita.
She made a frown.
Anyway, by your logic we could say Sarah killed her - since she screamed and let everyone get stressed out. Not cutting her arm off would still cause her death, no matter what. Kenny should not have ranted at her, as she did what the majority of the people in The Walking Dead community thought was right - he should have known from the start that Clementine wanted to help by giving Sarita the Reggie treatment, instead of saying a load of BS.
He acts strange and suicidal well before he drinks anything.
However, the majority of the talk about suicide started AFTER the drinking, whereas with Kenny - he starts talking about feeling in peace when Carver hit him - to me, that certainly seems like suicidal thoughts.
The things you have to read...
sign
First of all, Nick goes 'crazy' because of Pete´s death.
Second, Kenny doesn´t go 'crazy' when he is talking to Clem about Sarita. He is blaming her, because it was her fault.
Yep - The things you must read. I would "sign" too, but I don't know how to act upon a noun.
Anyway - I never said Kenny goes crazy because he blamed it on her; I'm talking about how Kenny walloped and walker and goes straight towards a herd of them - that's insane. Now Nick did that too, to escape the shed (optional, but Nick still leaves the shed nonetheless,) - but he was under the influence of alcohol. Which one seems crazier?
Ask Luke.
He certaintly seems to think so.
Just because Luke believes in something - doesn't make it right.
Also - You better be writing a goddamn essay, because I don't want to type in a long time.
Round 1 - Most of your points are just saying how the characters have reacted. How do they disprove what I said? I just listed off some char… moreacters that have reacted less than Kenny. You telling me how they reacted didn't really tell me anything - because I know how they reacted. You really had to tell me how they exaggerated more than Kenny, not, how did they feel after there loss.
Well, first of all, I was explained that Lee could not have reacted like Kenny because Kenny´s situation was much worse.
I am saying that Bonnie leaving Clementine to die is much worse than anything Kenny has done.
I am saying that Rebecca enjoys watching Kenny smash Carver´s head with the crowbar, and that is really reacting worse that Kenny.
I am saying that Luke not being upset at all for Nick´s death is wrong-nothing more.
I am saying that Nick loss the will to live, at first, at then kills Matthew.
The only viable one was Nick's and N… [view original content]
And AGAIN this isnt even a disucssion about whether hes a good person or not or if you like him or if you went with him its about how his ch… morearacter was used this season.
Are you kidding me? You judge also about the game characters especially about Kenny, that "Kenny's negative attributes" or "Kenny shouldn't have come back".
Also people like you are a good hint to the problems you only think only Kenny cares as the writers herofied him at the end while removing all the other characters or discrediting them often at random while removing pretty much all Kenny's negative attributes.
What negative characteristics has Kenny?
* He lost an eye to protect Clementine.
* He sacrifices himself for Clementine and AJ to stay in Wellington.
You want to tell me he was bad?
And AGAIN! Of course, Kenny was sometimes aggressive, but for good reason!:
* Carlos was beaten by Carver and Carlos had to beat Sarah, because Ca… [view original content]
I didn't expect Kenny to spill the beans when you first meet him, but at least maybe some kind of explanation in future episodes would've helped, but that never happens.
Still would have been really hard to do. Clementine didn't even personally know anything about the alley scene/ radio drop scene... so obviously she wasn't ever going to question Kenny about that. Outside of a flashback scene (which telltale doesn't do), I don't know what could have been done to effectively shed light on his improbable escape.
Compared to Luke, Ben is HEAVILY developed, there's more interesting stuff going on with Ben then there is with Luke by a longshot,
Could you please elaborate? I don't think that is true what so ever. Ben was more or less a screw up who had good intentions but seemingly couldn't ever do anything right. His only development was his building guilt which led to his confession which led to his short outburst at Kenny. That's seriously it. He was fairly static as a character. I would say Luke was as well, but like Ben, we knew enough about him to get a good handle on who he was as a character. There isn't really any measurable difference.
Doug also seemed to have a character arc if you save him by becoming more of a tough survivor rather than the geek we saw in episode 1
I have never saved Doug so I can't really speak to this.
Carely gets more of a backstory
Not really. Outside of learning that she was a news reporter who saw her boss get eaten we knew basically nothing about her past.
A good argument for Carely having better development would be the fact that she had a clear developing relationship with Lee. I would say this may give her a bit of an advantage.
Lily gets more of a backstory
Only thing we knew about her was that she served in the Air Force.
Larry gets some kind of backstory if you talk to Lily.
Barely anything.
I honestly don't know why you're bringing up backstories. Almost no one had great/complex backstories. Luke is in the norm in regards to this.
The thing with Luke, the stuff going on with him in episode 5 was way too late
What stuff went on in episode 5 that didn't go on in the other episodes in regards to his character development?
would've tried to give him more character stuff to do rather than just be the generic nice person
You know who else was a generic nice person? Omid (more or less). Omid was a fan favorite, and he was as static a character as there is in either season.
and If I don't get invested in his character at all, that's a problem.
Subjectivity. A lot of people clearly cared about Luke. I honestly didn't even realize how much I cared about Luke until he fell through the ice and died. It was seriously shocking (and I don't mean in the sense of: "Wait... what? Telltale just killed him off like that?").
Why is it that it's harder to swallow? Because there was nothing there, that's really just personal interpretation for Kenny fans
It's the most logical interpretation. It's the only one that makes sense. I guess its up to the players to blindly deny it if they want to.
Kenny did care about Clem, but never really had much emotional attachment to her, she's a kid, and she needed protecting, but he wasn't looking at her as his daughter as episode 5 implies
I'm not saying that Kenny looked at her as his daughter at all..
He had some level of emotional attachment to her. I don't care if he can determinetly make the one time mistake of letting his vendetta with Lee get in-between that. Kenny is otherwise nothing but enthusiastic in wanting to rescue her.
Remember how much Kenny cared about the boat that Vernon stole? Is it not worth mentioning that he expresses no desire to rather chase after Vernon to get the boat back instead of trying to rescue Clementine?
there's no build up to it and it's forced.
No. It isn't forced at all, with the exception of Clementine getting emotional after shooting him (God forbid she would get emotional after shooting a man to death). The fact that you actually have the freaking option to put a bullet in the man is telling of the fact that the relationship is not forced. You can act genuinely indifferent towards Kenny if that really floats your boat. You can openly act out against him a number of times.
What build up were you looking for exactly? The relationship wasn't overbearing what so ever. It wasn't a "Omg clem, friends 4lyfe" type of thing.
Kenny never seemed like Clem's pal in season 1 at all, that's just your perspective talking.
I never once said Kenny actively acted like Clem's pal in season one.
I didn't expect Kenny to spill the beans when you first meet him, but at least maybe some kind of explanation in future episodes would've he… morelped, but that never happens. Compared to Luke, Ben is HEAVILY developed, there's more interesting stuff going on with Ben then there is with Luke by a longshot, Doug also seemed to have a character arc if you save him by becoming more of a tough survivor rather than the geek we saw in episode 1, Carely gets more of a backstory, Lily gets more of a backstory, Larry gets some kind of backstory if you talk to Lily. The thing with Luke, the stuff going on with him in episode 5 was way too late and I would've liked if TT would've tried to give him more character stuff to do rather than just be the generic nice person, He's supposed to be one of the main characters, and If I don't get invested in his character at all, that's a problem. Why is it that it's harder to swallow? Because there was nothing there, th… [view original content]
Either you're playing a different game or I'm being stupid, but all the stuff you're saying about the Kenny and Clem relationship in Season 1 is really nowhere to be found unfortunately, Kenny cared about Clem, but not in the same way Season 2 handles it or the way you or Kenny fans describe, I simply just don't see it. I don't hate Luke, but there's really not enough to him at all, the only kind of backstory he gets is in Episode 5, which is the final episode, and until then he's really just been the bland nice guy that's built up to oppose Kenny, and the flaws that Telltale put into him later just feel contrived and kind of forced, he had good potential, but I'm not invested in his character at all in the same way I was with Ben, who is a bit more interesting than "nice guy Luke." Yes, I agree that Omid is a static character, but that didn't bother me nearly as much considering he and Christa played well off of each other and I was interested to see where that relationship could develop with Clem, but no, we have to go along with Kenny/Clem because Kenny is a fan favorite and Telltale love him instead of focusing on something that had build up and good potential. The way the writing goes, it treats it like Clem must be attached to Kenny and despite maybe going against him, you're still having to forcefully bond with him instead of other characters which doesn't work for me, Kenny doesn't even belong in this story anyway thanks to the sloppy execution. I know you love Kenny and love this relationship and think highly of this season, but I'm simply very disappointed in what Telltale did to this promising franchise and I can only hope they get to a point where they can at least please everyone, which won't always work, and improve on their mistakes.
I didn't expect Kenny to spill the beans when you first meet him, but at least maybe some kind of explanation in future episodes would've he… morelped, but that never happens.
Still would have been really hard to do. Clementine didn't even personally know anything about the alley scene/ radio drop scene... so obviously she wasn't ever going to question Kenny about that. Outside of a flashback scene (which telltale doesn't do), I don't know what could have been done to effectively shed light on his improbable escape.
Compared to Luke, Ben is HEAVILY developed, there's more interesting stuff going on with Ben then there is with Luke by a longshot,
Could you please elaborate? I don't think that is true what so ever. Ben was more or less a screw up who had good intentions but seemingly couldn't ever do anything right. His only development was his building guilt which led to his confession which led to his short outburst at Kenny. … [view original content]
at the time when he noticed what was goin on bonnie was already there what was kenny supposed to do ? SUPERKENNY TO THE RESCUE? When everyone was already there?
Its very easy to blame kenny for everything isn't it?
Its all janes fault for robbing arvo so he stumbled away like a bitch and snitched them out(even though arvo was stealing from his own group) ans his sister didn't look sick at all
That would've actually be interesting to see and I got that vibe as well in episode 2 but I agree they made Carver way too villainy and over the top. I kept cringing at the "they are weak and we are strong" dialogue. I think it would've been sort of cool to keep the cabin members/Carver conflict a more grey/grey area.
Probably another case of set-ups that the writers of episodes 3 & 4 either discarded or simply weren't clued in on. I think Carver was o… moreriginally suppose to less of a villain and the cabin crew were suppose to be more morally questionable. Rebecca's a straight up asshole in episode one, Luke foreshadows Carlos being dangerous in EP2, Alvin supposedly killed someone George and Carver warns Clem that she doesn't actually know the people she's staying with.
If the original plan was the cabin crew weren't very good people themselves (which might explain why they stick an eleven year girl in a shed to bleed to death) than it's possible Rebecca was actually having an affair with Carver, or vice versa. Maybe she was suppose to have been Carver's wife and she fell in love with Alvin and ran off or something. Who knows. Whatever the original plan was is all up in the air now.
"How the fuck did that shit happen?!" Kenny asks this once Jane makes her way into the house after she carries Clementine from the lake. So it's safe to assume Kenny saw Luke and Bonnie go under. And, if you chose to cover Luke, Kenny yells for Clementine to stop (from breaking the ice to free Luke). He knew, he may be stupid, but not that stupid.
He has no reason to excuse his needlessly violent outburst, he should've helped get Clementine (and possibly Bonnie) warm. But instead beats someone else. Hell, some people chose to [Help Arvo] and Kenny is lashing out so hard he hits her. Then says (to a dying girl) "What, lost your taste for this sort of thing?" There's no excuse for that kind of shit, and I have no tolerance for it.
at the time when he noticed what was goin on bonnie was already there what was kenny supposed to do ? SUPERKENNY TO THE RESCUE? When everyon… moree was already there?
Its very easy to blame kenny for everything isn't it?
Its all janes fault for robbing arvo so he stumbled away like a bitch and snitched them out(even though arvo was stealing from his own group) ans his sister didn't look sick at all
Maybe I should have worded it better - I was just asking a bunch of rhetorical questions as to why Kenny didn't try and stop Clementine from doing whatever he didn't want her to do.
You mean leave him at the Rest Stop, and go alone with AJ? Well, I think I have already explained that. He really has no reason beyond feeling that he has lost everything, again.He lets Clementine go "impulsively". He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
But it's only nine days
Nine days are a lot of days in the ZA.
and by then - without food or anything,
Scavenging.
the newborn baby would be everything but alive,
Yes. Is so unrealistic that Clem finds baby formula so easily.
and that still doesn't negate the fact that the baby and Clementine are in possible danger for going towards the horde.
Yes.
Kenny really didn't care about anyone - even himself, and that is what I was referring to.
Why do you think that?
There are a few people that Clementine seems to have an interaction with
I am not saying that she doesn´t interact with anybody. Just that her interactions with Lee are the only ones were shown, and other people obviously cared about her.
Also - I never said Kenny and Clementine never talked, that's why I said, "(unless they had a secret meeting or something.)"
Yeah, I know.
Also there relationship in Season 2 just sprouts out of nowhere. there relationship extends dramatically starting when Kenny is protective of Clementine at the lodge when Carver holds her at gun point, and when people mistreat her at Carver's camp. Seems a little bit iffy to me, I would have liked Telltale to give Kenny and Clementine a true bonding moment. Instead of Kenny acting like superman for no reason.
Well, I think the scenes in the Moonstar Lodge are a good starting point. The Hug Kenny shows that she misses him deeply, like she misses all her old group and all the other dialogues show that cares too. And, if you don´t pick the Hug Kenny option, Kenny cries of happiness for seeing Clem again. When they enter the Lodge, led by Walter-you know, that conversation we never heard- they seem to talk easily, and laugh together, probably about old times. In the scene where they sit next to each other, if you pick 'Christa said you were dead’, Kenny responds 'I am. This is all a dream.' and Clementine looks devastated. The simple fact of having a safe place again-after the death of Lee, Omid and disappearance of Christa- probably contributed much to that. There is also the scene at dinner, when the people switch. Picking Kenny´s side when he is arguing with Nick and Luke, shows what she thinks rather well. Also, when Kenny says ‘Pass me that can of beans, Duck’ and he looks all shocked, and Luke asks who is Duck, you get the option to say ‘Leave him alone, Luke’
Also, you know, Clementine keeps the drawing she made of Kenny´s family for more that sixteen months, and even more than that if you don´t burn it.
So no, I don´t think there is any “escalation”.
Meh, just something I thought was interesting.
Well, yes, is interesting but is also a bit off topic, in my opinion.
Please don't stop - this is my only form of mental exercise. Without this, I'll go stupid.
Oh. Ok - I'll continue. This is one of the first times I actually smiled at having an argument.
Why could Wellington not take care of … morethe walkers around them?
Ok - you're right. They probably would take care of the walkers around them.
If Clem wants to come with him, he accepts that because he needs Clem. If Clem doesn´t want to go with him, even feeling scared of him, he just lets her go because of feeling betrayed, useless, worthless.
That doesn't really contradict my point or anything - but that really wasn't my whole point, I was just stating as to what Kenny did, and what I thought someone else might do.
He cares. Is just that, like I said, he is feeling betrayed, useless, and worthless. He lets Clementine go "impulsively" He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Maybe I should have worded it better - I was just asking a bunch of rhetorical questions as to why Kenny didn't try and s… [view original content]
Kenny wasn't brought back because the fans demanded it. Kenny had death sounds in Season 1 but were removed at the last second, meaning they had plans of bringing him back at some point. The original writers of Season 1 are long gone so don't expect TWDG to make sense until at least Season 5 when they fire Shorette, get rid of the 90 minute bullshit and ACTUALLY hire people with REAL writing experience. Just compare these for a real good laugh.
This right here is the moment the series went downhill
Also, OP just said that it would have been completely different and OK if they brought back Lilly instead and that Arvo has redeeming capabilities... I think i lose more braincells by visiting this place than by overdosing on cocaine.
Ya, I hated how everyone in the group assumed Clem cared about Kenny.
Clem knew better than anyone that Kenny was a danger to them and should have been abandoned even before they were captured by Carver. But everyone assumes she cares about him and none of the dialogue choices make sense, so half of season 2 is just Clem being silent, made for an uninteresting game and boring dialogue.
Ya, I hated how everyone in the group assumed Clem cared about Kenny.
Clem knew better than anyone that Kenny was a danger to them and sh… moreould have been abandoned even before they were captured by Carver. But everyone assumes she cares about him and none of the dialogue choices make sense, so half of season 2 is just Clem being silent, made for an uninteresting game and boring dialogue.
And yeah, the Kenny endings were terrible.
Clem knew better than anyone that Kenny was a danger to them and should have been abandoned even before they were captured by Carver.
… more You're projecting super hard right now.
Clem cared about Kenny, this is FACT, otherwise she wouldn't have kept the drawing.
Season 2 needs to be retconned though.
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him, also she probably kept the drawing for memories or because of Duck, Kenny and Clem barely had any connections in what we saw from season 1.
Clem knew better than anyone that Kenny was a danger to them and should have been abandoned even before they were captured by Carver.
… more You're projecting super hard right now.
Clem cared about Kenny, this is FACT, otherwise she wouldn't have kept the drawing.
Season 2 needs to be retconned though.
Unfortunately it is a fact. No matter what the player says Clem still likes Kenny. So it's technically canon that Clem cares about him, which annoyed me.
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him, also she probably kept t… morehe drawing for memories or because of Duck, Kenny and Clem barely had any connections in what we saw from season 1.
I agree, the only reason i considered not burning the drawing was because of Katjaa and Duck, I would have ripped out Kennys face if could have instead
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him, also she probably kept t… morehe drawing for memories or because of Duck, Kenny and Clem barely had any connections in what we saw from season 1.
You mean leave him at the Rest Stop, and go alone with AJ? Well, I think I have already explained that. He really has no reason beyond feeling that he has lost everything, again.He lets Clementine go "impulsively". He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Yeah, he probably will regret it.
Nine days are a lot of days in the ZA.
Yes.
Scavenging.
Yes.
Yes. Is so unrealistic that Clem finds baby formula so easily.
Yes, to be honest. But that's strictly opinion - whether or not it's easy to find baby formula.
Why do you think that?
He let go of everything that he had - he literally stab a woman deep in the heart, and he let the only people left go. If I were in his shoes, I would've at least tried to persuade Clementine to stay. He didn't care about Clementine at the moment, he didn't really think of the consequences to his actions.
I am not saying that she doesn´t interact with anybody. Just that her interactions with Lee are the only ones were shown, and other people obviously cared about her.
Yeah.
Well, I think the scenes in the Moonstar Lodge are a good starting point. The Hug Kenny shows that she misses him deeply, like she misses all her old group and all the other dialogues show that cares too. And, if you don´t pick the Hug Kenny option, Kenny cries of happiness for seeing Clem again. When they enter the Lodge, led by Walter-you know, that conversation we never heard- they seem to talk easily, and laugh together, probably about old times. In the scene where they sit next to each other, if you pick 'Christa said you were dead’, Kenny responds 'I am. This is all a dream.' and Clementine looks devastated. The simple fact of having a safe place again-after the death of Lee, Omid and disappearance of Christa- probably contributed much to that. There is also the scene at dinner, when the people switch. Picking Kenny´s side when he is arguing with Nick and Luke, shows what she thinks rather well. Also, when Kenny says ‘Pass me that can of beans, Duck’ and he looks all shocked, and Luke asks who is Duck, you get the option to say ‘Leave him alone, Luke’ Also, you know, Clementine keeps the drawing she made of Kenny´s family for more that sixteen months, and even more than that if you don´t burn it.
This whole paragraph is a big fat opinion, and I'm almost certain that if I write an opinion, it will be an opinion too. So let's just agree to disagree.
So no, I don´t think there is any “escalation”.
I personally believe it escalates - or "speeds up" - when Kenny calls Clementine "Duck," his dead son. But that's once again opinion.. so I'll stop right there.
Maybe I should have worded it better - I was just asking a bunch of rhetorical questions as to why Kenny didn't try and stop Clementine from… more doing whatever he didn't want her to do.
You mean leave him at the Rest Stop, and go alone with AJ? Well, I think I have already explained that. He really has no reason beyond feeling that he has lost everything, again.He lets Clementine go "impulsively". He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
But it's only nine days
Nine days are a lot of days in the ZA.
and by then - without food or anything,
Scavenging.
the newborn baby would be everything but alive,
Yes. Is so unrealistic that Clem finds baby formula so easily.
and that still doesn't negate the fact that the baby and Clementine are in possible danger for going towards the horde.
Yes.
Kenny really didn't care about anyone - even himself, and that is what I was referr… [view original content]
Carver could still be a villain just make him a smart villain. Someone with actual cunning and charisma, instead of someone who runs a crew of people looking for excuses to beat small girls and see's an eleven year old as his equal.
How bout instead of forcing parents to beat their kids Carver has a kind of "school" at Howe's where the kids are kept during the day. Maybe one of the Howe's crew is like a former middle school teacher or something and instead of using an eleven-year for whatever little labor you could get out of her, Clem and Sarah spend their days away from adults actually doing something both familiar and, at least in this context, fun. Becca and another kid could be there. The teacher could be an affable person. Teaches them some basic schoolbook stuff, then to keep things interesting some useful survival lessons.
At first it can all seem very innocent on the surface but Clem & the player could eventually discover the school is subtly indoctrinating young minds into serving Howes in the future. Kind of like a lesser Hitler Youth or what post WWII Soviet Union did. Where kids are taught loyalty to the system over all else, even their own friends and family. Little bits of Carver's survivalist philosophy are snuck into to lessons, some kind of altered pledge of allegiance could start every day. The lessons gradually get more specific to things that benefit Howe's and Carver. And while the kids are being slowly being feed propaganda about Howe's being a good community the adults of the cabin group are toiling away with the reality that Carver just uses people for his own ends.
This can play into Carver's motives for Rebecca's baby. Bit by bit you see he's not interested raising kids, but training child soldiers to serve him. Rebecca's relationship with Carver was one of convenience. She didn't really care about him, but he liked her and there were benefits in being with him. Then Alvin came along and she fell in love with him, became pregnant, and not wanting to see her child raised as just a tool for Carver she ran off with the others.
And the audience can see the reality of Carver's "child-rearing" techniques when he takes a personal interest in Sarah. He teaches her how to shoot, let's her do the things Carlos would never let her do, all the while talking up himself and Howe's. And Sarah actually feels empowered for once and goes from cooperating with Carver to wanting to please him, and he responds by feeding her ego. Telling Sarah how she's becoming a model citizen and that just makes her more eager to please Carver maybe to the point where she outs her own father when she finds out he was planning to escape again.
And that leads to this breaking point where Carver's true self comes out when he brutalizes Carlos. Which he then tries to cover by spin-doctoring how bad a man he is to Sarah. Revealing some actual truths about bad things Carlos has done, but only in a way to paint Carlos as monstrously as possible. Then from there he starts rattling off examples for everyone in the cabin group, all the things they did when they lived at Howe's and chastising them for their hypocrisy.
And the player would be left with this murky dilemma where the cabin group is pressuring Clem to complete their escape plans but with the caveat they want to leave Sarah and you gotta decide if you can trust her anymore. Seeing Carver brutalize her dad obviously shakes her faith in Howe's, but between the realization she's effectively betrayed the cabin group and the possibility they themselves aren't particularly good people themselves means any sense of loyalty to them might be gone at this point.
Carver could still be the bad guy, but it just needed to be less obvious and his villainy needed to be smarter and more complex than just killing people because he wanted to.
That would've actually be interesting to see and I got that vibe as well in episode 2 but I agree they made Carver way too villainy and over… more the top. I kept cringing at the "they are weak and we are strong" dialogue. I think it would've been sort of cool to keep the cabin members/Carver conflict a more grey/grey area.
Also, OP just said that it would have been completely different and OK if they brought back Lilly instead and that Arvo has redeeming capabilities... I think i lose more braincells by visiting this place than by overdosing on cocaine.
You clearly missed the point.... again. Yes they were gonna bring Kenny back eventually or maybe just leave the route open if they wanted too. Just not on this huge level that they did it, especially as his entire appearance amounted to nothing more than fanservice with his repetative storyline.
Also this isnt about liking Lilly or Arvo its that them coming back would present a more diverse reaction, as the player has reason to distrust and dislike said characters unlike with the Kenny situation. Also both having redemptive storylines would be a new development for their charcaters but instead it was given to Kenny AGAIN.
Kenny wasn't brought back because the fans demanded it. Kenny had death sounds in Season 1 but were removed at the last second, meaning they… more had plans of bringing him back at some point. The original writers of Season 1 are long gone so don't expect TWDG to make sense until at least Season 5 when they fire Shorette, get rid of the 90 minute bullshit and ACTUALLY hire people with REAL writing experience. Just compare these for a real good laugh.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierre-shorette/76/494/943
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/nick-breckon/a/685/9a6
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sean-vanaman/6/a86/117
This right here is the moment the series went downhill
Also, OP just said that it would have been completely different and OK if they brought back Lilly instead and that Arvo has redeeming capabilities... I think i lose more braincells by visiting this place than by overdosing on cocaine.
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him,
Unfortunately unlike season 1 players were not allowed this choice, every person can repeatedly tell clem how dangerous Kenny is and clem cannot disagre, or if she half does the next scene has her praising Kenny again
i considered not burning the drawing was because of Katjaa and Duck,
This is actually another good point, perhaps clem kept the drawing not just for nostalgia but due to Kat and Duck who clem actually had a good onscreen relationship with in season 1
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him, also she probably kept t… morehe drawing for memories or because of Duck, Kenny and Clem barely had any connections in what we saw from season 1.
Carver could still be a villain just make him a smart villain. Someone with actual cunning and charisma, instead of someone who runs a crew … moreof people looking for excuses to beat small girls and see's an eleven year old as his equal.
How bout instead of forcing parents to beat their kids Carver has a kind of "school" at Howe's where the kids are kept during the day. Maybe one of the Howe's crew is like a former middle school teacher or something and instead of using an eleven-year for whatever little labor you could get out of her, Clem and Sarah spend their days away from adults actually doing something both familiar and, at least in this context, fun. Becca and another kid could be there. The teacher could be an affable person. Teaches them some basic schoolbook stuff, then to keep things interesting some useful survival lessons.
At first it can all seem very innocent on the surface but Clem & the player could eventually discover t… [view original content]
He let go of everything that he had - he literally stab a woman deep in the heart, and he let the only people left go. If I were in his shoes, I would've at least tried to persuade Clementine to stay. He didn't care about Clementine at the moment, he didn't really think of the consequences to his actions.
"Clem, please-- Take AJ with you... he deserves a chance. I don't trust myself with him anymore. He'll... he'll have a better shot with you. Go on... take him. Look at me, Clem. You made it this long. Think about all the folks that didn't. That makes you special. Don't waste this... okay? You live a good life. You hear me? You protect him. You raise him right. You tell him about his mommy and his daddy and how they were good people. You tell him about everyone who worked so hard to keep him safe... just like they did you. This is the right decision, Clem. You're right... like you usually are. I ain't fit to care for y'all anymore. I'm real glad to have met you, Clementine. Now... now go. (...) Shh, shh... don't you fret, little guy. Big sister's gonna take care of you."
I think he was only thinking about Clem and AJ, even if he was a bit impulsive.
This whole paragraph is a big fat opinion, and I'm almost certain that if I write an opinion, it will be an opinion too. So let's just agree to disagree.
Actually, nope. Is just what happens in the game.
I personally believe it escalates - or "speeds up" - when Kenny calls Clementine "Duck," his dead son. But that's once again opinion.. so I'll stop right there.
You mean leave him at the Rest Stop, and go alone with AJ? Well, I think I have already explained that. He really has no reason beyond feeli… moreng that he has lost everything, again.He lets Clementine go "impulsively". He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Yeah, he probably will regret it.
Nine days are a lot of days in the ZA.
Yes.
Scavenging.
Yes.
Yes. Is so unrealistic that Clem finds baby formula so easily.
Yes, to be honest. But that's strictly opinion - whether or not it's easy to find baby formula.
Why do you think that?
He let go of everything that he had - he literally stab a woman deep in the heart, and he let the only people left go. If I were in his shoes, I would've at least tried to persuade Clementine to stay. He didn't care about Clementine at the moment, he didn't really think of the consequences to his actions.
I am not saying that she doesn´t… [view original content]
Carver could still be a villain just make him a smart villain. Someone with actual cunning and charisma, instead of someone who runs a crew … moreof people looking for excuses to beat small girls and see's an eleven year old as his equal.
How bout instead of forcing parents to beat their kids Carver has a kind of "school" at Howe's where the kids are kept during the day. Maybe one of the Howe's crew is like a former middle school teacher or something and instead of using an eleven-year for whatever little labor you could get out of her, Clem and Sarah spend their days away from adults actually doing something both familiar and, at least in this context, fun. Becca and another kid could be there. The teacher could be an affable person. Teaches them some basic schoolbook stuff, then to keep things interesting some useful survival lessons.
At first it can all seem very innocent on the surface but Clem & the player could eventually discover t… [view original content]
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him,
Unfortunately un… morelike season 1 players were not allowed this choice, every person can repeatedly tell clem how dangerous Kenny is and clem cannot disagre, or if she half does the next scene has her praising Kenny again
i considered not burning the drawing was because of Katjaa and Duck,
This is actually another good point, perhaps clem kept the drawing not just for nostalgia but due to Kat and Duck who clem actually had a good onscreen relationship with in season 1
I get that you dislike Season 2's writing and you are welcome to voice your dissatisfaction (as long as you obey the rules - which isn't a problem as you are already doing that), but still... going out of your way to focus in on a few of the writers still seems a bit rude and spiteful.
Don't mistake this as a warning as you aren't breaking any rules, but maybe for the sake of better discussion, you could instead choose to focus in on what they did with Walking Dead Season 2/Wolf/etc that you don't like as opposed to blaming their lack of esteemed recognition on Vanaman's level. I agree that some design choices such as 90 minute episodes could stand to be fixed, but going off of various posts from Puzzlebox and other Telltale staff members, the 90 minute play length seems to be something the company as a whole wants. I don't get it either, but hopefully they refine their "one sitting play through" in future titles. (Disclaimer; volunteer moderators are not staff members and our posts do not represent Telltale, etc) As for hiring more experienced writers, I've read various online interviews with Telltale that seem to indicate they are doing just that.
Regarding Season 1, I think a part of what made that game's story so well esteemed in comparison to Season 2 was that Season 1 was more bittersweet and sentimental, whereas I'm inclined to agree with another user's post I saw in that Season 2's story was borderline Nihilistic. Alongside this, it seems Season 2 also relied a lot more on shock value in comparison to Season 1, whereas Season 1 allowed characters to become more fleshed out in my opinion. Season 2 in my opinion had stronger set ups for particular events, but Season 1 was better at weaving them together and presenting more fleshed out character motivations. For Season 3, I hope to see Telltale focus more on character development again as opposed to shock value.
Kenny wasn't brought back because the fans demanded it. Kenny had death sounds in Season 1 but were removed at the last second, meaning they… more had plans of bringing him back at some point. The original writers of Season 1 are long gone so don't expect TWDG to make sense until at least Season 5 when they fire Shorette, get rid of the 90 minute bullshit and ACTUALLY hire people with REAL writing experience. Just compare these for a real good laugh.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierre-shorette/76/494/943
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/nick-breckon/a/685/9a6
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sean-vanaman/6/a86/117
This right here is the moment the series went downhill
Also, OP just said that it would have been completely different and OK if they brought back Lilly instead and that Arvo has redeeming capabilities... I think i lose more braincells by visiting this place than by overdosing on cocaine.
That's a really good idea and I would've like it if Carver was a more intelligent villain. The writers really missed an opportunity with him and instead relied on violence and shock value rather than emotional and clever storytelling.
Carver could still be a villain just make him a smart villain. Someone with actual cunning and charisma, instead of someone who runs a crew … moreof people looking for excuses to beat small girls and see's an eleven year old as his equal.
How bout instead of forcing parents to beat their kids Carver has a kind of "school" at Howe's where the kids are kept during the day. Maybe one of the Howe's crew is like a former middle school teacher or something and instead of using an eleven-year for whatever little labor you could get out of her, Clem and Sarah spend their days away from adults actually doing something both familiar and, at least in this context, fun. Becca and another kid could be there. The teacher could be an affable person. Teaches them some basic schoolbook stuff, then to keep things interesting some useful survival lessons.
At first it can all seem very innocent on the surface but Clem & the player could eventually discover t… [view original content]
Comments
Saying something over and over dosnt make it true and I have to admit your very very biased, others cared about clementine and there were times Kenny didnt Also how biased are your luke and jane sections?
And AGAIN this isnt even a disucssion about whether hes a good person or not or if you like him or if you went with him its about how his character was used this season. Also people like you are a good hint to the problems you only think only Kenny cares as the writers herofied him at the end while removing all the other characters or discrediting them often at random while removing pretty much all Kenny's negative attributes
ANOTHER FIGHT?
Round 1 -
Most of your points are just saying how the characters have reacted. How do they disprove what I said? I just listed off some characters that have reacted less than Kenny. You telling me how they reacted didn't really tell me anything - because I know how they reacted. You really had to tell me how they exaggerated more than Kenny, not, how did they feel after there loss.
The only viable one was Nick's and Nick didn't even lost the will to live, he survived for a reason. And that still isn't as bad as what Kenny does when he loses someone. For example, if you cut Sarita's hand - Kenny will make a speech about Clementine and cause her to cry. If you do not help Pete - Nick will just you could've helped him and nothing more. He drinks a few cups and starts going crazy. Nick become crazy because of the drink, whereas Kenny had nothing to drink.
Also, what does Matthew's death have to do with Nick losing Pete?
Uh, okay.
Woodbury did not make me lose any immersion at all, but this is a matter of opinion, so let’s drop this.
Typo, sorry. I mean to put 'warm' not 'sunny'
The same reason the Russian´s did not kill anybody-writing hax.
Unless, of course, if the writers elaborate of this in the next season. And, well, I have enough faith in Telltale to believe that could be possible.
Why could Wellington not take care of the walkers around them?
If Clem wants to come with him, he accepts that because he needs Clem. If Clem doesn´t want to go with him, even feeling scared of him, he just lets her go because of feeling betrayed, useless, worthless.
He cares. Is just that, like I said, he is feeling betrayed, useless, and worthless. He lets Clementine go "impulsively" He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
And I supposed to think they did not find any walkers in those nine days? Even with the danger of the baby, Clem survived until that point.
I not denying she cares about Clem-thought I think is less love and more like Gollum and the Ring- but Jesus, this response doesn´t have anything to do with your original statement.
What? You serious? Nobody really talks with Clem except Lee, but some characters still obviously cared about her all the same. That we are not show their interactions in season 1 doesn´t mean they never talked. Besides, Kenny says t in Season 1 that he cares about Clem as much as he does for his own family. Also, he says that Lee and Clem are welcome to come with him and his family when he is planning of leaving the motor inn. You can say that is more for his friendship with Lee, okay, but its still important.
Besides, you are ignoring how their relapthionship grows in season 2.
Don´t know, don´t care. The fact is that, if we have to consider all previous version of the script in a argument, we never get anything do. Kenny doesn´t act like this to her in the game, so he doesn´t. Its cannon he doesn´t fell that way.
Yes. I am not denying that. I am not even saying that he going to kill himself when Clem leaves him, just that is a possibility.
Except for the fact that he lost everything once in Season 1, and lost everything again in Season 2. There may be some changes.
But yes, that he could live on, wasting away withouth a care like in Savannah, is a possibility.
Well, we are both being polite here. I see no harm in continuing. But if you really want to stop, then we will stop.
Carlos you beautiful soul. You ceased functioning too soon. At least he is coming back, according to Sarah.
Well, first of all, I was explained that Lee could not have reacted like Kenny because Kenny´s situation was much worse.
I am saying that Bonnie leaving Clementine to die is much worse than anything Kenny has done.
I am saying that Rebecca enjoys watching Kenny smash Carver´s head with the crowbar, and that is really reacting worse that Kenny.
I am saying that Luke not being upset at all for Nick´s death is wrong-nothing more.
I am saying that Nick loss the will to live, at first, at then kills Matthew.
Yes, he did.
At first.
Is her arm, not her hand.
Also, I don´t remember Clementine crying.
Also, Kenny making a speech about it is peachy keen in my opinion, because by cutting off her arm Clem killed Sarita.
And?
He acts strange and suicidal well before he drinks anything.
The things you have to read...
**sigh*
First of all, Nick goes 'crazy' because of Pete´s death.
Second, Kenny doesn´t go 'crazy' when he is talking to Clem about Sarita. He is blaming her, because it was her fault.
Ask Luke.
He certaintly seems to think so.
Are you kidding me? You judge also about the game characters especially about Kenny, that "Kenny's negative attributes" or "Kenny shouldn't have come back".
What negative characteristics has Kenny?
You want to tell me he was bad?
And AGAIN! Of course, Kenny was sometimes aggressive, but for good reason!:
Carlos was beaten by Carver and Carlos had to beat Sarah, because Carver wanted to. Kenny has beaten Carver, yes. That was a good thing, because Carver has damaged Kenny's Eye. I mean, Carver deserves to die.
Kenny wanted to Wellington with the whole group, but none of the group didn't want to Kenny's perspective (Clementine is determinative). And we must not forget Christa wanted to Wellington with Clementine. That is the reason why Kenny was angry and couldn't communicate so well with the group.
Kenny was the only one who could fix the car. What do Mike, Bonnie and Arvo? Try to run away with the car.
Arvo shoots Clementine. Kenny was worried about Clementine.
So
I ask you:
Why is it bad if you let a man alive. He is the only one who cares about you and you know him since Season 1. You can trust him more, because all the others have left Clementine. Honestly, if Kenny dies it sucks because everyone dies, and when Kenny dies like all other then the game is boring. Kenny should stay alive. We have already lost many people, now Kenny also? No!
I honestly don't see Kenny getting out of this alive. He's just one of those characters who will be with you, almost to the end.
Kenny should stay alive!
Oh. Ok - I'll continue. This is one of the first times I actually smiled at having an argument.
Ok - you're right. They probably would take care of the walkers around them.
That doesn't really contradict my point or anything - but that really wasn't my whole point, I was just stating as to what Kenny did, and what I thought someone else might do.
Maybe I should have worded it better - I was just asking a bunch of rhetorical questions as to why Kenny didn't try and stop Clementine from doing whatever he didn't want her to do.
But it's only nine days, and by then - without food or anything, the newborn baby would be everything but alive, and that still doesn't negate the fact that the baby and Clementine are in possible danger for going towards the horde.
That someone when I said "she still cared for someone," wasn't Clementine - if that's what you mean by "this response doesn´t have anything to do with your original statement" - it was Jane herself. She cares for herself. Kenny really didn't care about anyone - even himself, and that is what I was referring to.
Besides, you are ignoring how their relapthionship grows in season 2.
There are a few people that Clementine seems to have an interaction with - for example, the two most hated people within the Walking Dead Games, Ben and Duck. Clementine has given Ben stickers and tried to pull him away from arguments (also voting that he stayed in the group when he confessed about the supplies,) - and she put a bug on Duck's pillow, showing childish humor.
Also - I never said Kenny and Clementine never talked, that's why I said, "(unless they had a secret meeting or something.)" Also there relationship in Season 2 just sprouts out of nowhere. They never had a bonding time like Luke or Jane, where they were all alone for a good few minutes. Unless you count the fire place scene, but in my opinion, I don't really consider it as much - which may seem ignorant, and it really is - but it just seemed really awkward in comparison to Luke's or Jane's, Luke's conversations were the only one that was truly good. Jane's and Kenny's were just ok. But back to topic - there relationship extends dramatically starting when Kenny is protective of Clementine at the lodge when Carver holds her at gun point, and when people mistreat her at Carver's camp. Seems a little bit iffy to me, I would have liked Telltale to give Kenny and Clementine a true bonding moment. Instead of Kenny acting like superman for no reason.
Meh, just something I thought was interesting.
Can't say anything about that.
But yes, that he could live on, wasting away withouth a care like in Savannah, is a possibility.
Can't say anything either.
Please don't stop - this is my only form of mental exercise. Without this, I'll go stupid.
he was already chasing arvo and wasn't really aware of the luke situation
Well, first of all, that is purely optional - second of all - leaving Clementine to die is because she didn't help, not strictly because of the death. It was because of our options, and what she did. You may say, "But you talked about Clementine cutting Sarita's arm off, which is optional." Yes, however - I needed to talk about similar situations where the protagonist quietly caused the death of someone in her side. Therefore, I made both of my points - "Nick and Pete" and 'Kenny and Sarita" - an optional choice.
Almost all of Kenny's losses were caused by walkers - and in other cases, he could not smash this specific person's face e.g. a girl who's on your side (optional.) Also, isn't Kenny finding different ways to relieve his stress, such as destroying a zombie's face - or otherwise shouting at a young girl. In addition, Rebecca had the culprit right in Kenny's arms - who's to say Kenny didn't kill a ton of zombie's while they were within the horde, after Sarita's death?
Also, Kenny making a speech about it is peachy keen in my opinion, because by cutting off her arm Clem killed Sarita.
She made a frown.
Anyway, by your logic we could say Sarah killed her - since she screamed and let everyone get stressed out. Not cutting her arm off would still cause her death, no matter what. Kenny should not have ranted at her, as she did what the majority of the people in The Walking Dead community thought was right - he should have known from the start that Clementine wanted to help by giving Sarita the Reggie treatment, instead of saying a load of BS.
However, the majority of the talk about suicide started AFTER the drinking, whereas with Kenny - he starts talking about feeling in peace when Carver hit him - to me, that certainly seems like suicidal thoughts.
sign
First of all, Nick goes 'crazy' because of Pete´s death.
Second, Kenny doesn´t go 'crazy' when he is talking to Clem about Sarita. He is blaming her, because it was her fault.
Yep - The things you must read. I would "sign" too, but I don't know how to act upon a noun.
Anyway - I never said Kenny goes crazy because he blamed it on her; I'm talking about how Kenny walloped and walker and goes straight towards a herd of them - that's insane. Now Nick did that too, to escape the shed (optional, but Nick still leaves the shed nonetheless,) - but he was under the influence of alcohol. Which one seems crazier?
He certaintly seems to think so.
Just because Luke believes in something - doesn't make it right.
Also - You better be writing a goddamn essay, because I don't want to type in a long time.
Still not getting it, I see.
C'mon, I know you're better than grasping for straws that aren't there...
Think about the situation, he knew Luke died.
We'll all go to the cabin... we're safe there.
Meme Material
That's a good plan.
Either way, I agreez with ya' too.
Still would have been really hard to do. Clementine didn't even personally know anything about the alley scene/ radio drop scene... so obviously she wasn't ever going to question Kenny about that. Outside of a flashback scene (which telltale doesn't do), I don't know what could have been done to effectively shed light on his improbable escape.
Could you please elaborate? I don't think that is true what so ever. Ben was more or less a screw up who had good intentions but seemingly couldn't ever do anything right. His only development was his building guilt which led to his confession which led to his short outburst at Kenny. That's seriously it. He was fairly static as a character. I would say Luke was as well, but like Ben, we knew enough about him to get a good handle on who he was as a character. There isn't really any measurable difference.
I have never saved Doug so I can't really speak to this.
Not really. Outside of learning that she was a news reporter who saw her boss get eaten we knew basically nothing about her past.
A good argument for Carely having better development would be the fact that she had a clear developing relationship with Lee. I would say this may give her a bit of an advantage.
Only thing we knew about her was that she served in the Air Force.
Barely anything.
I honestly don't know why you're bringing up backstories. Almost no one had great/complex backstories. Luke is in the norm in regards to this.
What stuff went on in episode 5 that didn't go on in the other episodes in regards to his character development?
You know who else was a generic nice person? Omid (more or less). Omid was a fan favorite, and he was as static a character as there is in either season.
Subjectivity. A lot of people clearly cared about Luke. I honestly didn't even realize how much I cared about Luke until he fell through the ice and died. It was seriously shocking (and I don't mean in the sense of: "Wait... what? Telltale just killed him off like that?").
It's the most logical interpretation. It's the only one that makes sense. I guess its up to the players to blindly deny it if they want to.
I'm not saying that Kenny looked at her as his daughter at all..
He had some level of emotional attachment to her. I don't care if he can determinetly make the one time mistake of letting his vendetta with Lee get in-between that. Kenny is otherwise nothing but enthusiastic in wanting to rescue her.
Remember how much Kenny cared about the boat that Vernon stole? Is it not worth mentioning that he expresses no desire to rather chase after Vernon to get the boat back instead of trying to rescue Clementine?
No. It isn't forced at all, with the exception of Clementine getting emotional after shooting him (God forbid she would get emotional after shooting a man to death). The fact that you actually have the freaking option to put a bullet in the man is telling of the fact that the relationship is not forced. You can act genuinely indifferent towards Kenny if that really floats your boat. You can openly act out against him a number of times.
What build up were you looking for exactly? The relationship wasn't overbearing what so ever. It wasn't a "Omg clem, friends 4lyfe" type of thing.
I never once said Kenny actively acted like Clem's pal in season one.
Belan,
Either you're playing a different game or I'm being stupid, but all the stuff you're saying about the Kenny and Clem relationship in Season 1 is really nowhere to be found unfortunately, Kenny cared about Clem, but not in the same way Season 2 handles it or the way you or Kenny fans describe, I simply just don't see it. I don't hate Luke, but there's really not enough to him at all, the only kind of backstory he gets is in Episode 5, which is the final episode, and until then he's really just been the bland nice guy that's built up to oppose Kenny, and the flaws that Telltale put into him later just feel contrived and kind of forced, he had good potential, but I'm not invested in his character at all in the same way I was with Ben, who is a bit more interesting than "nice guy Luke." Yes, I agree that Omid is a static character, but that didn't bother me nearly as much considering he and Christa played well off of each other and I was interested to see where that relationship could develop with Clem, but no, we have to go along with Kenny/Clem because Kenny is a fan favorite and Telltale love him instead of focusing on something that had build up and good potential. The way the writing goes, it treats it like Clem must be attached to Kenny and despite maybe going against him, you're still having to forcefully bond with him instead of other characters which doesn't work for me, Kenny doesn't even belong in this story anyway thanks to the sloppy execution. I know you love Kenny and love this relationship and think highly of this season, but I'm simply very disappointed in what Telltale did to this promising franchise and I can only hope they get to a point where they can at least please everyone, which won't always work, and improve on their mistakes.
I just gave up, the points are there anyway
at the time when he noticed what was goin on bonnie was already there what was kenny supposed to do ? SUPERKENNY TO THE RESCUE? When everyone was already there?
Its very easy to blame kenny for everything isn't it?
Its all janes fault for robbing arvo so he stumbled away like a bitch and snitched them out(even though arvo was stealing from his own group) ans his sister didn't look sick at all
That would've actually be interesting to see and I got that vibe as well in episode 2 but I agree they made Carver way too villainy and over the top. I kept cringing at the "they are weak and we are strong" dialogue. I think it would've been sort of cool to keep the cabin members/Carver conflict a more grey/grey area.
You're still grasping though.
"How the fuck did that shit happen?!" Kenny asks this once Jane makes her way into the house after she carries Clementine from the lake. So it's safe to assume Kenny saw Luke and Bonnie go under. And, if you chose to cover Luke, Kenny yells for Clementine to stop (from breaking the ice to free Luke). He knew, he may be stupid, but not that stupid.
He has no reason to excuse his needlessly violent outburst, he should've helped get Clementine (and possibly Bonnie) warm. But instead beats someone else. Hell, some people chose to [Help Arvo] and Kenny is lashing out so hard he hits her. Then says (to a dying girl) "What, lost your taste for this sort of thing?" There's no excuse for that kind of shit, and I have no tolerance for it.
You mean leave him at the Rest Stop, and go alone with AJ? Well, I think I have already explained that. He really has no reason beyond feeling that he has lost everything, again.He lets Clementine go "impulsively". He probably will regret it later, if he is even alive.
Nine days are a lot of days in the ZA.
Scavenging.
Yes. Is so unrealistic that Clem finds baby formula so easily.
Yes.
Why do you think that?
I am not saying that she doesn´t interact with anybody. Just that her interactions with Lee are the only ones were shown, and other people obviously cared about her.
Yeah, I know.
Well, I think the scenes in the Moonstar Lodge are a good starting point. The Hug Kenny shows that she misses him deeply, like she misses all her old group and all the other dialogues show that cares too. And, if you don´t pick the Hug Kenny option, Kenny cries of happiness for seeing Clem again. When they enter the Lodge, led by Walter-you know, that conversation we never heard- they seem to talk easily, and laugh together, probably about old times. In the scene where they sit next to each other, if you pick 'Christa said you were dead’, Kenny responds 'I am. This is all a dream.' and Clementine looks devastated. The simple fact of having a safe place again-after the death of Lee, Omid and disappearance of Christa- probably contributed much to that. There is also the scene at dinner, when the people switch. Picking Kenny´s side when he is arguing with Nick and Luke, shows what she thinks rather well. Also, when Kenny says ‘Pass me that can of beans, Duck’ and he looks all shocked, and Luke asks who is Duck, you get the option to say ‘Leave him alone, Luke’
Also, you know, Clementine keeps the drawing she made of Kenny´s family for more that sixteen months, and even more than that if you don´t burn it.
So no, I don´t think there is any “escalation”.
Well, yes, is interesting but is also a bit off topic, in my opinion.
Okay.
Kenny wasn't brought back because the fans demanded it. Kenny had death sounds in Season 1 but were removed at the last second, meaning they had plans of bringing him back at some point. The original writers of Season 1 are long gone so don't expect TWDG to make sense until at least Season 5 when they fire Shorette, get rid of the 90 minute bullshit and ACTUALLY hire people with REAL writing experience. Just compare these for a real good laugh.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierre-shorette/76/494/943
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/nick-breckon/a/685/9a6
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sean-vanaman/6/a86/117
This right here is the moment the series went downhill
Also, OP just said that it would have been completely different and OK if they brought back Lilly instead and that Arvo has redeeming capabilities... I think i lose more braincells by visiting this place than by overdosing on cocaine.
Ya, I hated how everyone in the group assumed Clem cared about Kenny.
Clem knew better than anyone that Kenny was a danger to them and should have been abandoned even before they were captured by Carver. But everyone assumes she cares about him and none of the dialogue choices make sense, so half of season 2 is just Clem being silent, made for an uninteresting game and boring dialogue.
And yeah, the Kenny endings were terrible.
You're projecting super hard right now.
Clem cared about Kenny, this is FACT, otherwise she wouldn't have kept the drawing.
Season 2 needs to be retconned though.
yeah, and if you burn the drawing that means...?
It means it's time to let go.
Clem caring about Kenny is not fact. In some playthrough's people couldn't give less of a fuck what happens to him, also she probably kept the drawing for memories or because of Duck, Kenny and Clem barely had any connections in what we saw from season 1.
Unfortunately it is a fact. No matter what the player says Clem still likes Kenny. So it's technically canon that Clem cares about him, which annoyed me.
I agree, the only reason i considered not burning the drawing was because of Katjaa and Duck, I would have ripped out Kennys face if could have instead
Yeah, he probably will regret it.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, to be honest. But that's strictly opinion - whether or not it's easy to find baby formula.
He let go of everything that he had - he literally stab a woman deep in the heart, and he let the only people left go. If I were in his shoes, I would've at least tried to persuade Clementine to stay. He didn't care about Clementine at the moment, he didn't really think of the consequences to his actions.
Yeah.
This whole paragraph is a big fat opinion, and I'm almost certain that if I write an opinion, it will be an opinion too. So let's just agree to disagree.
I personally believe it escalates - or "speeds up" - when Kenny calls Clementine "Duck," his dead son. But that's once again opinion.. so I'll stop right there.
Carver could still be a villain just make him a smart villain. Someone with actual cunning and charisma, instead of someone who runs a crew of people looking for excuses to beat small girls and see's an eleven year old as his equal.
How bout instead of forcing parents to beat their kids Carver has a kind of "school" at Howe's where the kids are kept during the day. Maybe one of the Howe's crew is like a former middle school teacher or something and instead of using an eleven-year for whatever little labor you could get out of her, Clem and Sarah spend their days away from adults actually doing something both familiar and, at least in this context, fun. Becca and another kid could be there. The teacher could be an affable person. Teaches them some basic schoolbook stuff, then to keep things interesting some useful survival lessons.
At first it can all seem very innocent on the surface but Clem & the player could eventually discover the school is subtly indoctrinating young minds into serving Howes in the future. Kind of like a lesser Hitler Youth or what post WWII Soviet Union did. Where kids are taught loyalty to the system over all else, even their own friends and family. Little bits of Carver's survivalist philosophy are snuck into to lessons, some kind of altered pledge of allegiance could start every day. The lessons gradually get more specific to things that benefit Howe's and Carver. And while the kids are being slowly being feed propaganda about Howe's being a good community the adults of the cabin group are toiling away with the reality that Carver just uses people for his own ends.
This can play into Carver's motives for Rebecca's baby. Bit by bit you see he's not interested raising kids, but training child soldiers to serve him. Rebecca's relationship with Carver was one of convenience. She didn't really care about him, but he liked her and there were benefits in being with him. Then Alvin came along and she fell in love with him, became pregnant, and not wanting to see her child raised as just a tool for Carver she ran off with the others.
And the audience can see the reality of Carver's "child-rearing" techniques when he takes a personal interest in Sarah. He teaches her how to shoot, let's her do the things Carlos would never let her do, all the while talking up himself and Howe's. And Sarah actually feels empowered for once and goes from cooperating with Carver to wanting to please him, and he responds by feeding her ego. Telling Sarah how she's becoming a model citizen and that just makes her more eager to please Carver maybe to the point where she outs her own father when she finds out he was planning to escape again.
And that leads to this breaking point where Carver's true self comes out when he brutalizes Carlos. Which he then tries to cover by spin-doctoring how bad a man he is to Sarah. Revealing some actual truths about bad things Carlos has done, but only in a way to paint Carlos as monstrously as possible. Then from there he starts rattling off examples for everyone in the cabin group, all the things they did when they lived at Howe's and chastising them for their hypocrisy.
And the player would be left with this murky dilemma where the cabin group is pressuring Clem to complete their escape plans but with the caveat they want to leave Sarah and you gotta decide if you can trust her anymore. Seeing Carver brutalize her dad obviously shakes her faith in Howe's, but between the realization she's effectively betrayed the cabin group and the possibility they themselves aren't particularly good people themselves means any sense of loyalty to them might be gone at this point.
Carver could still be the bad guy, but it just needed to be less obvious and his villainy needed to be smarter and more complex than just killing people because he wanted to.
so what
he just came back
You clearly missed the point.... again. Yes they were gonna bring Kenny back eventually or maybe just leave the route open if they wanted too. Just not on this huge level that they did it, especially as his entire appearance amounted to nothing more than fanservice with his repetative storyline.
Also this isnt about liking Lilly or Arvo its that them coming back would present a more diverse reaction, as the player has reason to distrust and dislike said characters unlike with the Kenny situation. Also both having redemptive storylines would be a new development for their charcaters but instead it was given to Kenny AGAIN.
Unfortunately unlike season 1 players were not allowed this choice, every person can repeatedly tell clem how dangerous Kenny is and clem cannot disagre, or if she half does the next scene has her praising Kenny again
This is actually another good point, perhaps clem kept the drawing not just for nostalgia but due to Kat and Duck who clem actually had a good onscreen relationship with in season 1
Komsomol
"Clem, please-- Take AJ with you... he deserves a chance. I don't trust myself with him anymore. He'll... he'll have a better shot with you. Go on... take him. Look at me, Clem. You made it this long. Think about all the folks that didn't. That makes you special. Don't waste this... okay? You live a good life. You hear me? You protect him. You raise him right. You tell him about his mommy and his daddy and how they were good people. You tell him about everyone who worked so hard to keep him safe... just like they did you. This is the right decision, Clem. You're right... like you usually are. I ain't fit to care for y'all anymore. I'm real glad to have met you, Clementine. Now... now go. (...) Shh, shh... don't you fret, little guy. Big sister's gonna take care of you."
I think he was only thinking about Clem and AJ, even if he was a bit impulsive.
Actually, nope. Is just what happens in the game.
I don´t see why.
Damn, this sounds much better than what Episode 3 had given us. Good job.
When I was talking about Clem caring about Ken not being fact I was talking about before she met up with him in season 2 :P
I get that you dislike Season 2's writing and you are welcome to voice your dissatisfaction (as long as you obey the rules - which isn't a problem as you are already doing that), but still... going out of your way to focus in on a few of the writers still seems a bit rude and spiteful.
Don't mistake this as a warning as you aren't breaking any rules, but maybe for the sake of better discussion, you could instead choose to focus in on what they did with Walking Dead Season 2/Wolf/etc that you don't like as opposed to blaming their lack of esteemed recognition on Vanaman's level. I agree that some design choices such as 90 minute episodes could stand to be fixed, but going off of various posts from Puzzlebox and other Telltale staff members, the 90 minute play length seems to be something the company as a whole wants. I don't get it either, but hopefully they refine their "one sitting play through" in future titles. (Disclaimer; volunteer moderators are not staff members and our posts do not represent Telltale, etc) As for hiring more experienced writers, I've read various online interviews with Telltale that seem to indicate they are doing just that.
Regarding Season 1, I think a part of what made that game's story so well esteemed in comparison to Season 2 was that Season 1 was more bittersweet and sentimental, whereas I'm inclined to agree with another user's post I saw in that Season 2's story was borderline Nihilistic. Alongside this, it seems Season 2 also relied a lot more on shock value in comparison to Season 1, whereas Season 1 allowed characters to become more fleshed out in my opinion. Season 2 in my opinion had stronger set ups for particular events, but Season 1 was better at weaving them together and presenting more fleshed out character motivations. For Season 3, I hope to see Telltale focus more on character development again as opposed to shock value.
That's a really good idea and I would've like it if Carver was a more intelligent villain. The writers really missed an opportunity with him and instead relied on violence and shock value rather than emotional and clever storytelling.