Doug once had his own subquest in early development, in which Lee had to knock the pole onto his brother while Doug attracted the walkers away with Kenny’s truck. Lee had to cut the electricity before cutting the pole with a fire axe.
how could i condemn her actions? i can not blame her, when i could not have come up with anything better myself in her place in that moment. could you?
why does everyone always assume choosing jane means hating kenny?
kenny is one of my all time favorite fictional characters.
and was even more shocked when almost 100 % of the players chose her.
I'm sorry, what? "chose" her? r you insane my man? Kenny had a… more fucking knife pointing at her chest, ready to penetrate, did you saw that as a "lets pick..." choice? it was a matter of saving someone's life or letting that person die.
Now most people that killed Kenny would agree with this.
While Kenny fans be just like: "Fuck Jane. In Kenny we trust. 'it was a fight to the death' and Clementine decided the outcome."
I dislike both characters.
I have absolutely no idea why would anyone like Jane. She, Carter (and his crew) and the Russian guy are the worst guys in Season 2 IMO
And i have to add, i am not even bothering to learn why they like her. People have their own opinions.
I don't think too many Jane fans love her blindly. We know that she's made mistakes, but what person hasn't? Jane clearly regrets leaving Jaime behind, and has to live with it every day. I've never done anything like leave my sister behind to die (and in fact, I would die for my sisters if I had to) but I've done other things that I regret, and I can relate to that regret of Jane's. Honestly I think some of the mistakes she made in episode 5 were so foolish they were out of character for Jane, and I blame the writers for those inconsistencies rather than Jane herself. I would've been fine if she had never come back in episode 5 and had instead made a comeback in season 3, but I didn't mind some of the extra screen time she did get early on in episode 5. I wouldn't say she overshadowed other characters, though the OP's accusation that Jane took over Luke's role for the final conflict is valid I feel. Again, that's the writers' fault though for creating a cheap twist in the finale's plot and having Jane replace Luke.
Jane is incredibly misunderstood. There are a lot more subtle little details to her personality that I feel a lot of people don't notice, choose to ignore, or just flat out refuse to see. She is a very very real character to me, and it boggles my mind how the writers started out with such a good premise with her and then forced her into situations that just plain don't make sense. I believe that since she was one of the newer additions to TWDG cast, they felt they could do some crazy shit with her (i.e. the plan in hiding the baby and prompting Kenny) and still sell it, claiming it was part of her character all along, when really, it wasn't. It didn't work for me, and I'm just kinda heartbroken at the stupid crap they've made Jane do.
I've noticed no one on this thread has really answered the OP's question on why people like Jane. People say, "Opinions. That's it." But no one's really expressed that opinion. Further, people say, "Who cares what those opinions are; just let them have it," but it's not fair to just dismiss people's perspectives like that either. These abbreviated quotes encourage tolerance, which is good, but they don't encourage understanding.
I'll tell you why I like Jane. She reminds me a lot of myself, in that she's logical, a bit socially awkward but can be more finessed when she wants to be, and sometimes she can be so cold she doesn't realize she's hurting others with her practicality, when she doesn't mean to. She had a bond with her sister, and I fiercely love my own sisters, though we didn't get along that well when we were younger, and I suspect it was the same for Jane and Jaime. I think Jane and Jaime's relationship wasn't perfect, but I think Jane did her best to try to make up for not being as good to Jaime as she could've been, though she still got frustrated and scared when leaving Jaime behind. Jane's made mistakes that she really regrets and she's trying to keep going, and I can relate to that too. She cuts herself off from others because she doesn't want to get hurt if they leave her; it's a natural defense mechanism that a lot of people have (though maybe not to the extent that Jane's portraying). Jane's been hurt in the past, and her walls are up so high now to protect herself that she'll barely let anyone in.
Also, I thought some of her lines were pretty funny. XD Even if the writing may have been a bit dashed and they were trying to force the sister-dynamic with Clem, there were a few places that I laughed out loud at what Jane said, or just had a genuine smile on my face.
I've seen people stand up for some of the less-liked characters, and then give not even a passing glance for Jane. Honestly it's quite hypocritical for people to say, "But look at it from Carver's/Troy's/Nate's perspective! He's got good and bad in him; he's not all good but he's not all bad either!" (I agree with this btw) and then say, "Well, Jane's shit though" (this I don't agree with.) All characters have black and white, just like all real people do too. To deny this is a foolish thing to do, and is the same thing as saying, "Some people are purely perfect" and "Some people are purely evil." No. It doesn't work like that. This isn't a Disney movie, and you shouldn't see yourself or anyone as a knight in shining armor with no flaws, or see some people as evil dark villains with nothing but malice in their heart when everyone indeed has flaws and makes mistakes.
Well said! I've been trying to see why people hate her so much too.
Even with the weird writing in S2, Jane was the most the most helpful, and the most reasonable of the main cast. Her coming back to save everyone was contrived, but, as it is now canon, proves she's not the heartless bitch many try to paint her as (even though she already showed that when she saved Rebecca and Clem from the Howe horde).
I don't think too many Jane fans love her blindly. We know that she's made mistakes, but what person hasn't? Jane clearly regrets leaving Ja… moreime behind, and has to live with it every day. I've never done anything like leave my sister behind to die (and in fact, I would die for my sisters if I had to) but I've done other things that I regret, and I can relate to that regret of Jane's. Honestly I think some of the mistakes she made in episode 5 were so foolish they were out of character for Jane, and I blame the writers for those inconsistencies rather than Jane herself. I would've been fine if she had never come back in episode 5 and had instead made a comeback in season 3, but I didn't mind some of the extra screen time she did get early on in episode 5. I wouldn't say she overshadowed other characters, though the OP's accusation that Jane took over Luke's role for the final conflict is valid I feel. Again, that's the writers' fault though for… [view original content]
I find her sociopathic behavior grating, and I don't have any patience for people who moan and whine about how hard it is to have empathy for others. It bothers me that the writers try to present her and Kenny as the only adults capable of surviving, when they both choose to do moronic things and the so-called "liabilities" like Sarah die due to accidents beyond their control.
There's that nonsense with her conflating her suicidal sister to a complete stranger, which she later justifies by saying "Oh a bunch of my friends died trying to save this guy I called an asshole." She attacks Arvo and her unnecessary brutality towards him starts his grudge, yet she never apologizes to him later on. She fucks Luke out of the blue, despite showing zero sexual tension and having shot another man's balls off hours earlier - I guess castration arouses Luke? Despite leaving Troy to die horribly, she somehow feels really bad about killing a Russian who was shooting at Clem. (???) And there's the whole moronic mess with leaving a baby behind just to provoke an unstable man into a murderous rampage - there was no outcome that wouldn't have made her look like an idiot, a monster, or both.
Despite this, I do agree with you about the double-standards that a lot of fans seem to have about evil male characters. Carver and Troy have zero humanity in their behavior, and Nate blatantly murders a couple who are implied to have been victimized by him before. Jane's crimes boil down to her being a lot more incompetent and stupid than the writers intended her to come across as, and at the very least her ending allows her to actually be redeemed without acting out of character. Jane remains hesitant and awkward even if you let in the starving family, while Kenny - the man who spent the entire episode alternating between violence and ineffectual apologizing ad nauseum - suddenly becomes a submissive softie who uncharacteristically grovels to the Wellington guard to spare Clem.
I don't think too many Jane fans love her blindly. We know that she's made mistakes, but what person hasn't? Jane clearly regrets leaving Ja… moreime behind, and has to live with it every day. I've never done anything like leave my sister behind to die (and in fact, I would die for my sisters if I had to) but I've done other things that I regret, and I can relate to that regret of Jane's. Honestly I think some of the mistakes she made in episode 5 were so foolish they were out of character for Jane, and I blame the writers for those inconsistencies rather than Jane herself. I would've been fine if she had never come back in episode 5 and had instead made a comeback in season 3, but I didn't mind some of the extra screen time she did get early on in episode 5. I wouldn't say she overshadowed other characters, though the OP's accusation that Jane took over Luke's role for the final conflict is valid I feel. Again, that's the writers' fault though for… [view original content]
for me Jane was the best new character that we meet. She and Kenny saved the season, i mean, she, kenny and clementine did everything. she had better development that all the cabin group, and did more for us in 2 episodes then some guys we spend almost the entire season ( Sarah, Luke, Rebeca.... etc. Jane had more impact on history in only two episodes than some characters had in 5.
Well said! I've been trying to see why people hate her so much too.
Even with the weird writing in S2, Jane was the most the most helpful… more, and the most reasonable of the main cast. Her coming back to save everyone was contrived, but, as it is now canon, proves she's not the heartless bitch many try to paint her as (even though she already showed that when she saved Rebecca and Clem from the Howe horde).
for me Jane was the best new character that we meet. She and Kenny saved the season, i mean, she, kenny and clementine did everything. she h… moread better development that all the cabin group, and did more for us in 2 episodes then some guys we spend almost the entire season ( Sarah, Luke, Rebeca.... etc. Jane had more impact on history in only two episodes than some characters had in 5.
I personally like Jane because she was so interested in Clem. When they introduced Jane she was staring a hole through Clementine. She was only with the group, because of her. She only cared, for her. If it weren't for Clem, Jane would've left the group immediately after getting out of Howe's. She's broken, but shows symptoms of wanting to be fixed. I feel that, for Jane, this is her last shot at the most important thing in the WD universe. A shot, I don't think she thought she'd get. Obviously after Jaime died, she has set rules for herself. Don't get too close, people are liabilities, everyone can't be saved, etc. I feel that Jane still has a lot to learn, in terms of family and love. And I think MyClem can help her "come back". ("We all get to come back."-Hershel[TV]) At the end of "No Going Back" she wanted to leave, with Clem. No one else. She says that she and Clem could just leave, w/o Kenny, w/o AJ. I think that she realized that Clem wasn't going to leave AJ. So she hatched a (awful) plan, hoping Kenny would give up, or go into a funk like when Sarita died/got bit. Hoping to show Clem that, there's no saving Kenny.
"Just go!"-Jane "I ain't goin' nowhere."-Kenny
In the end, Jane wanted Clem. And Kenny wanted AJ. I think Jane's got MyClem's back, and MyClem's got AJ's.
I personally like Jane because she was so interested in Clem. When they introduced Jane she was staring a hole through Clementine. She was o… morenly with the group, because of her. She only cared, for her. If it weren't for Clem, Jane would've left the group immediately after getting out of Howe's. She's broken, but shows symptoms of wanting to be fixed. I feel that, for Jane, this is her last shot at the most important thing in the WD universe. A shot, I don't think she thought she'd get. Obviously after Jaime died, she has set rules for herself. Don't get too close, people are liabilities, everyone can't be saved, etc. I feel that Jane still has a lot to learn, in terms of family and love. And I think MyClem can help her "come back". ("We all get to come back."-Hershel[TV]) At the end of "No Going Back" she wanted to leave, with Clem. No one else. She says that she and Clem could just leave, w/o Kenny, w/o AJ. I think that she realized that Clem… [view original content]
I understand if you didn't want to kill anybody (even though you would be preventing murder) and you did not want to be alone (understandable) I cannot fathom why in the world you would want to stay with Kenny over Wellington (presumably the safest out of all endings) considering you mentioned you hated him implying you have no emotional attachment to him whatsoever. You said you stayed with him for this reason:
At Wellington, I knew if I went in then Kenny would probably go into the forest and commit suicide. So I left with him.
So? Who fucking cares. I am overjoyed when someone in a video game I especially hate dies. Your problem is that you always try to save everyone without even thinking straight first. Kenny wanted to die anyway. He says it himself . I don't blame him either, a guy like himself with everything he's gone through. You would be doing him a favor leaving him and fulfilling his last wish and him finally at peace.
Yes I did.
I left with Kenny.
The reasons are quite clear. Through the entire game I wanted to be with Luke or Bonnie or Mike or anybo… moredy but Kenny or Jane. In the end I was stuck with two emotional idiots, one of which is unstable and dead set on a goal I agree with and the other is a heartless unreliable survivalist who won't stop crying about her dead sister. During the fight I didn't give a shit, I didn't help either. In the final choice I didn't look away nor shoot...I sat there, watching. After that I didn't want to be alone, I left with Kenny to Wellington. At Wellington, I knew if I went in then Kenny would probably go into the forest and commit suicide. So I left with him.
Sorry for the late reply BTW
I understand if you didn't want to kill anybody (even though you would be preventing murder) and you did not… more want to be alone (understandable) I cannot fathom why in the world you would want to stay with Kenny over Wellington (presumably the safest out of all endings) considering you mentioned you hated him implying you have no emotional attachment to him whatsoever. You said you stayed with him for this reason:
At Wellington, I knew if I went in then Kenny would probably go into the forest and commit suicide. So I left with him.
So? Who fucking cares. I am overjoyed when someone in a video game I especially hate dies. Your problem is that you always try to save everyone without even thinking straight first. Kenny wanted to die anyway. He says it himself . I don't blame him either, a guy like himself with everything he's gone through. You would be doing him a favor leaving him and fulfilling his last wish and him finally at peace.
I wouldn't say she's "sociopathic." Perhaps she exhibits some characteristics of the condition, but clearly not all of them. That's a bit of a stretch. Everyone has some sociopathic characteristics in varying degrees. The stress of the ZA doesn't help matters either. And I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of the symptoms and technicalities of this because the discussion's just not worth it.
I think it makes more sense to just say she wasn't written consistently.
I don't have any patience for people who moan and whine about how hard it is to have empathy for others.
Really? So do you have no patience for yourself? Because you clearly don't have empathy for Jane. Or for some other characters as well.
Not to mention Jane never actually complained about how hard it is to empathize, or to identify with people like you accuse her of doing. Though I'm just nitpicking here lol; I do know what you're saying.
Though I do have to say, if you really do think Jane has sociopathic behavior, it's not quite fair to blame her for that. The causes are genetic, environmental, etc. If someone realizes they're a sociopath, do they not deserve to get help to change? It's a condition, not a way of life they've chosen.
It bothers me that the writers try to present her and Kenny as the only adults capable of surviving, when they both choose to do moronic things and the so-called "liabilities" like Sarah die due to accidents beyond their control.
Yup. Agreed. The writing sucked. E.g. they could've done a lot more great stuff with Sarah and Nick. Etcetera, etcetera....
There's that nonsense with her conflating her suicidal sister to a complete stranger, which she later justifies by saying "Oh a bunch of my friends died trying to save this guy I called an asshole."
What do you mean? She's "conflating" i.e. "combining" Jaime and the "asshole" who called her "Mary Jane" into one being? Do you mean Jane's comparing the two? I'm not sure what you're saying here exactly but if you mean Jane's comparing the two in that Jane's saying both of them needed to be left behind, then I didn't see her doing that at all. It's somewhat similar, but...not really in my opinion. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, if that's what you mean.
She attacks Arvo and her unnecessary brutality towards him starts his grudge, yet she never apologizes to him later on. She fucks Luke out of the blue, despite showing zero sexual tension and having shot another man's balls off hours earlier - I guess castration arouses Luke? Despite leaving Troy to die horribly, she somehow feels really bad about killing a Russian who was shooting at Clem.
I could defend her here on these three points but it's just the same old arguments that I'm sure you've seen before. Though I am curious as to what you'd say in response to them. Oh well; I'll just save my breath here.
Despite this, I do agree with you about the double-standards that a lot of fans seem to have about evil male characters.
Glad we agree on that.
Carver and Troy have zero humanity in their behavior
Disagreed, but you knew this already. I think for Carver/Troy/Nate and Jane, and for any character that a person tends to like actually, the fan tends to fill in aspects of the fictional characters' personalities that aren't quite defined by the game to make them more likable, or to explain their actions in a good light. I think I'm definitely guilty of doing this with Jane, and with some other characters as well. But I don't think doing this is necessarily a bad thing either. What's wrong with putting the character into a "what if" situation that puts said character into the best, most positive light? If it's a frankly possible situation, what's wrong with thinking the best of characters rather than the worst?
Jane's crimes boil down to her being a lot more incompetent and stupid than the writers intended her to come across as, and at the very least her ending allows her to actually be redeemed without acting out of character.
Yup. Honestly I'd like to see her redeem herself a bit more, but that's just me. I think she still has a lot to make up for. But I also think that she does have the ability to make up for things.
Kenny...suddenly becomes a submissive softie who uncharacteristically grovels to the Wellington guard to spare Clem.
Yup agreed again. Sorry for those who liked the Kenny endings, but they made me almost want to gag from his "ad nauseam" behavior lol just like you said, with how corny they were. If it was a character different from Kenny it could've worked better. Perhaps from some players' perspectives and looking from some players' playthroughs Kenny's actions did make sense in these endings, and I'll be honest, I can see how it would make sense to people. But...it didn't work for me. Honestly this is why the writing for a game like this is so difficult to get right. There can be a lot to a character (any character), and I feel if players don't go through all playthroughs, then sometimes said character seems to contradict their own actions or characteristics. Kenny had a lot of backstory from season 1, and I'm guilty of thinking of him as kind of an asshole all the way from that time, because that's the original side of his character that was presented to me. If Duck was saved instead of Shawn way back in that season 1 decision (and whatever other decisions are relevant), and Kenny was sweet to me from there, then perhaps I could've loved Kenny that much as well. But sadly, it didn't work out for me that way. So...his endings fell flat for me.
I find her sociopathic behavior grating, and I don't have any patience for people who moan and whine about how hard it is to have empathy fo… morer others. It bothers me that the writers try to present her and Kenny as the only adults capable of surviving, when they both choose to do moronic things and the so-called "liabilities" like Sarah die due to accidents beyond their control.
There's that nonsense with her conflating her suicidal sister to a complete stranger, which she later justifies by saying "Oh a bunch of my friends died trying to save this guy I called an asshole." She attacks Arvo and her unnecessary brutality towards him starts his grudge, yet she never apologizes to him later on. She fucks Luke out of the blue, despite showing zero sexual tension and having shot another man's balls off hours earlier - I guess castration arouses Luke? Despite leaving Troy to die horribly, she somehow feels really bad about killing a Russian wh… [view original content]
This is pretty much how I see it. Being alone to long will break you. It broke Kenny and it will break Jane. That is the flaw in the Lone Wolf mentality.
I personally like Jane because she was so interested in Clem. When they introduced Jane she was staring a hole through Clementine. She was o… morenly with the group, because of her. She only cared, for her. If it weren't for Clem, Jane would've left the group immediately after getting out of Howe's. She's broken, but shows symptoms of wanting to be fixed. I feel that, for Jane, this is her last shot at the most important thing in the WD universe. A shot, I don't think she thought she'd get. Obviously after Jaime died, she has set rules for herself. Don't get too close, people are liabilities, everyone can't be saved, etc. I feel that Jane still has a lot to learn, in terms of family and love. And I think MyClem can help her "come back". ("We all get to come back."-Hershel[TV]) At the end of "No Going Back" she wanted to leave, with Clem. No one else. She says that she and Clem could just leave, w/o Kenny, w/o AJ. I think that she realized that Clem… [view original content]
This is pretty much how I see it. Being alone to long will break you. It broke Kenny and it will break Jane. That is the flaw in the Lone Wolf mentality.
Because she taught her more technique on how to survive,and also because she's well prepared for anything like chuck,while Kenny only care about his own goal and doesn't seems like someone who would listen to other idea,and at the end we see a situation similar to season 1 where Clem's guardian is fighting some maniac that obsessed with family,it's the same situation in season 2,I confused on why some people wanted to leave with someone like the latter.
You know...Except...Enraging a madman into trying to kill her...
Clem's guardian
Neither of them were Clem's guardian...
some maniac that obsessed with family
First of all, Jane brought up dead family members of Kenny in a negative way. Second, That shows that Clem is like family to Kenny and he would do anything. Third, Jane wouldn't shut up about her dead sister and was obsessed about how Clem is so much like her and how she misses her sister...Honestly Jane is the maniac obsessed with dead family and trying to replace them...Wait...They both are maniacs obsessed with dead family and trying to replace them and neither are proper guardians of Clem.
Because she taught her more technique on how to survive,and also because she's well prepared for anything like chuck,while Kenny only care a… morebout his own goal and doesn't seems like someone who would listen to other idea,and at the end we see a situation similar to season 1 where Clem's guardian is fighting some maniac that obsessed with family,it's the same situation in season 2,I confused on why some people wanted to leave with someone like the latter.
I like Jane because it is obvious that she takes the most care of Clementine. Jane teached her important things. Jane also returned to the group after she left them. She saved Clem's Life once. And in my opinion she never planned to kill Kenny. Remember she put her her knife down. . . . And she never asked Clem for shooting at Kenny or at least help within the fight. She just wanted to show how unstable Kenny is. It was the idea to demonstrate that Kenny have not changed not even a little bit.
By the way I think Jane is a beautiful woman. I am guilty. But hey how much people hate Jane only because they prefer Kenny?
I like Jane because it is obvious that she takes the most care of Clementine. Jane teached her important things. Jane also returned to the … moregroup after she left them. She saved Clem's Life once. And in my opinion she never planned to kill Kenny. Remember she put her her knife down. . . . And she never asked Clem for shooting at Kenny or at least help within the fight. She just wanted to show how unstable Kenny is. It was the idea to demonstrate that Kenny have not changed not even a little bit.
By the way I think Jane is a beautiful woman. I am guilty. But hey how much people hate Jane only because they prefer Kenny?
Comments
Doug once had his own subquest in early development, in which Lee had to knock the pole onto his brother while Doug attracted the walkers away with Kenny’s truck. Lee had to cut the electricity before cutting the pole with a fire axe.
how could i condemn her actions? i can not blame her, when i could not have come up with anything better myself in her place in that moment. could you?
why does everyone always assume choosing jane means hating kenny?
kenny is one of my all time favorite fictional characters.
yes, i did. and?
but was it not clem who decided the outcome?
I have absolutely no idea why would anyone like Jane. She, Carter (and his crew) and the Russian guy are the worst guys in Season 2 IMO
And i have to add, i am not even bothering to learn why they like her. People have their own opinions.
What? No speaka da english?
What does that have to do with you trying to not let people have an opinion...?
I don't think too many Jane fans love her blindly. We know that she's made mistakes, but what person hasn't? Jane clearly regrets leaving Jaime behind, and has to live with it every day. I've never done anything like leave my sister behind to die (and in fact, I would die for my sisters if I had to) but I've done other things that I regret, and I can relate to that regret of Jane's. Honestly I think some of the mistakes she made in episode 5 were so foolish they were out of character for Jane, and I blame the writers for those inconsistencies rather than Jane herself. I would've been fine if she had never come back in episode 5 and had instead made a comeback in season 3, but I didn't mind some of the extra screen time she did get early on in episode 5. I wouldn't say she overshadowed other characters, though the OP's accusation that Jane took over Luke's role for the final conflict is valid I feel. Again, that's the writers' fault though for creating a cheap twist in the finale's plot and having Jane replace Luke.
Jane is incredibly misunderstood. There are a lot more subtle little details to her personality that I feel a lot of people don't notice, choose to ignore, or just flat out refuse to see. She is a very very real character to me, and it boggles my mind how the writers started out with such a good premise with her and then forced her into situations that just plain don't make sense. I believe that since she was one of the newer additions to TWDG cast, they felt they could do some crazy shit with her (i.e. the plan in hiding the baby and prompting Kenny) and still sell it, claiming it was part of her character all along, when really, it wasn't. It didn't work for me, and I'm just kinda heartbroken at the stupid crap they've made Jane do.
I've noticed no one on this thread has really answered the OP's question on why people like Jane. People say, "Opinions. That's it." But no one's really expressed that opinion. Further, people say, "Who cares what those opinions are; just let them have it," but it's not fair to just dismiss people's perspectives like that either. These abbreviated quotes encourage tolerance, which is good, but they don't encourage understanding.
I'll tell you why I like Jane. She reminds me a lot of myself, in that she's logical, a bit socially awkward but can be more finessed when she wants to be, and sometimes she can be so cold she doesn't realize she's hurting others with her practicality, when she doesn't mean to. She had a bond with her sister, and I fiercely love my own sisters, though we didn't get along that well when we were younger, and I suspect it was the same for Jane and Jaime. I think Jane and Jaime's relationship wasn't perfect, but I think Jane did her best to try to make up for not being as good to Jaime as she could've been, though she still got frustrated and scared when leaving Jaime behind. Jane's made mistakes that she really regrets and she's trying to keep going, and I can relate to that too. She cuts herself off from others because she doesn't want to get hurt if they leave her; it's a natural defense mechanism that a lot of people have (though maybe not to the extent that Jane's portraying). Jane's been hurt in the past, and her walls are up so high now to protect herself that she'll barely let anyone in.
Also, I thought some of her lines were pretty funny. XD Even if the writing may have been a bit dashed and they were trying to force the sister-dynamic with Clem, there were a few places that I laughed out loud at what Jane said, or just had a genuine smile on my face.
I've seen people stand up for some of the less-liked characters, and then give not even a passing glance for Jane. Honestly it's quite hypocritical for people to say, "But look at it from Carver's/Troy's/Nate's perspective! He's got good and bad in him; he's not all good but he's not all bad either!" (I agree with this btw) and then say, "Well, Jane's shit though" (this I don't agree with.) All characters have black and white, just like all real people do too. To deny this is a foolish thing to do, and is the same thing as saying, "Some people are purely perfect" and "Some people are purely evil." No. It doesn't work like that. This isn't a Disney movie, and you shouldn't see yourself or anyone as a knight in shining armor with no flaws, or see some people as evil dark villains with nothing but malice in their heart when everyone indeed has flaws and makes mistakes.
All right, I'll get off my soap box now.
Well said! I've been trying to see why people hate her so much too.
Even with the weird writing in S2, Jane was the most the most helpful, and the most reasonable of the main cast. Her coming back to save everyone was contrived, but, as it is now canon, proves she's not the heartless bitch many try to paint her as (even though she already showed that when she saved Rebecca and Clem from the Howe horde).
I find her sociopathic behavior grating, and I don't have any patience for people who moan and whine about how hard it is to have empathy for others. It bothers me that the writers try to present her and Kenny as the only adults capable of surviving, when they both choose to do moronic things and the so-called "liabilities" like Sarah die due to accidents beyond their control.
There's that nonsense with her conflating her suicidal sister to a complete stranger, which she later justifies by saying "Oh a bunch of my friends died trying to save this guy I called an asshole." She attacks Arvo and her unnecessary brutality towards him starts his grudge, yet she never apologizes to him later on. She fucks Luke out of the blue, despite showing zero sexual tension and having shot another man's balls off hours earlier - I guess castration arouses Luke? Despite leaving Troy to die horribly, she somehow feels really bad about killing a Russian who was shooting at Clem. (???) And there's the whole moronic mess with leaving a baby behind just to provoke an unstable man into a murderous rampage - there was no outcome that wouldn't have made her look like an idiot, a monster, or both.
Despite this, I do agree with you about the double-standards that a lot of fans seem to have about evil male characters. Carver and Troy have zero humanity in their behavior, and Nate blatantly murders a couple who are implied to have been victimized by him before. Jane's crimes boil down to her being a lot more incompetent and stupid than the writers intended her to come across as, and at the very least her ending allows her to actually be redeemed without acting out of character. Jane remains hesitant and awkward even if you let in the starving family, while Kenny - the man who spent the entire episode alternating between violence and ineffectual apologizing ad nauseum - suddenly becomes a submissive softie who uncharacteristically grovels to the Wellington guard to spare Clem.
And only i stand on the side lines and laugh cause both kenny and Jane are crazy and need to fuckin leave
Why do people like Jane?..... because ... Fandoms
Why do people hate Jane?..... because.... Fandoms
for me Jane was the best new character that we meet. She and Kenny saved the season, i mean, she, kenny and clementine did everything. she had better development that all the cabin group, and did more for us in 2 episodes then some guys we spend almost the entire season ( Sarah, Luke, Rebeca.... etc. Jane had more impact on history in only two episodes than some characters had in 5.
Because of bad writing , duh XD
People like Jane?
I know right? I can't believe it either.
Because people can have their own opinions.
Coming from me, who doesn't like Jane all that much. 203-204, she was okay.
I personally like Jane because she was so interested in Clem. When they introduced Jane she was staring a hole through Clementine. She was only with the group, because of her. She only cared, for her. If it weren't for Clem, Jane would've left the group immediately after getting out of Howe's. She's broken, but shows symptoms of wanting to be fixed. I feel that, for Jane, this is her last shot at the most important thing in the WD universe. A shot, I don't think she thought she'd get. Obviously after Jaime died, she has set rules for herself. Don't get too close, people are liabilities, everyone can't be saved, etc. I feel that Jane still has a lot to learn, in terms of family and love. And I think MyClem can help her "come back". ("We all get to come back."-Hershel[TV]) At the end of "No Going Back" she wanted to leave, with Clem. No one else. She says that she and Clem could just leave, w/o Kenny, w/o AJ. I think that she realized that Clem wasn't going to leave AJ. So she hatched a (awful) plan, hoping Kenny would give up, or go into a funk like when Sarita died/got bit. Hoping to show Clem that, there's no saving Kenny.
"Just go!"-Jane "I ain't goin' nowhere."-Kenny
In the end, Jane wanted Clem. And Kenny wanted AJ. I think Jane's got MyClem's back, and MyClem's got AJ's.
Well said, I chose the same path.
Sorry for the late reply BTW
I understand if you didn't want to kill anybody (even though you would be preventing murder) and you did not want to be alone (understandable) I cannot fathom why in the world you would want to stay with Kenny over Wellington (presumably the safest out of all endings) considering you mentioned you hated him implying you have no emotional attachment to him whatsoever. You said you stayed with him for this reason:
So? Who fucking cares. I am overjoyed when someone in a video game I especially hate dies. Your problem is that you always try to save everyone without even thinking straight first. Kenny wanted to die anyway. He says it himself . I don't blame him either, a guy like himself with everything he's gone through. You would be doing him a favor leaving him and fulfilling his last wish and him finally at peace.
At this point I don't care about this...But...I'll do this one comment before going to sleep.
Jane told me to stay out of it. :P
In a world where the dead walk, one more living is a job well done for me. It isn't a problem, it's a moral decision.
My final revenge, keeping him alive. :P
I wouldn't say she's "sociopathic." Perhaps she exhibits some characteristics of the condition, but clearly not all of them. That's a bit of a stretch. Everyone has some sociopathic characteristics in varying degrees. The stress of the ZA doesn't help matters either. And I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of the symptoms and technicalities of this because the discussion's just not worth it.
I think it makes more sense to just say she wasn't written consistently.
Really? So do you have no patience for yourself? Because you clearly don't have empathy for Jane. Or for some other characters as well.
Not to mention Jane never actually complained about how hard it is to empathize, or to identify with people like you accuse her of doing. Though I'm just nitpicking here lol; I do know what you're saying.
Though I do have to say, if you really do think Jane has sociopathic behavior, it's not quite fair to blame her for that. The causes are genetic, environmental, etc. If someone realizes they're a sociopath, do they not deserve to get help to change? It's a condition, not a way of life they've chosen.
Yup. Agreed. The writing sucked. E.g. they could've done a lot more great stuff with Sarah and Nick. Etcetera, etcetera....
What do you mean? She's "conflating" i.e. "combining" Jaime and the "asshole" who called her "Mary Jane" into one being? Do you mean Jane's comparing the two? I'm not sure what you're saying here exactly but if you mean Jane's comparing the two in that Jane's saying both of them needed to be left behind, then I didn't see her doing that at all. It's somewhat similar, but...not really in my opinion. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, if that's what you mean.
I could defend her here on these three points but it's just the same old arguments that I'm sure you've seen before. Though I am curious as to what you'd say in response to them. Oh well; I'll just save my breath here.
Glad we agree on that.
Disagreed, but you knew this already. I think for Carver/Troy/Nate and Jane, and for any character that a person tends to like actually, the fan tends to fill in aspects of the fictional characters' personalities that aren't quite defined by the game to make them more likable, or to explain their actions in a good light. I think I'm definitely guilty of doing this with Jane, and with some other characters as well. But I don't think doing this is necessarily a bad thing either. What's wrong with putting the character into a "what if" situation that puts said character into the best, most positive light? If it's a frankly possible situation, what's wrong with thinking the best of characters rather than the worst?
Yup. Honestly I'd like to see her redeem herself a bit more, but that's just me. I think she still has a lot to make up for. But I also think that she does have the ability to make up for things.
Yup agreed again. Sorry for those who liked the Kenny endings, but they made me almost want to gag from his "ad nauseam" behavior lol just like you said, with how corny they were. If it was a character different from Kenny it could've worked better. Perhaps from some players' perspectives and looking from some players' playthroughs Kenny's actions did make sense in these endings, and I'll be honest, I can see how it would make sense to people. But...it didn't work for me. Honestly this is why the writing for a game like this is so difficult to get right. There can be a lot to a character (any character), and I feel if players don't go through all playthroughs, then sometimes said character seems to contradict their own actions or characteristics. Kenny had a lot of backstory from season 1, and I'm guilty of thinking of him as kind of an asshole all the way from that time, because that's the original side of his character that was presented to me. If Duck was saved instead of Shawn way back in that season 1 decision (and whatever other decisions are relevant), and Kenny was sweet to me from there, then perhaps I could've loved Kenny that much as well. But sadly, it didn't work out for me that way. So...his endings fell flat for me.
This is pretty much how I see it. Being alone to long will break you. It broke Kenny and it will break Jane. That is the flaw in the Lone Wolf mentality.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/resources/avatar/DEAD_avatar_0023.png
Season 1
Kenny is missing
Season 2
Kenny is dead. determinant
Season 3
Kenny is dead.
Because she taught her more technique on how to survive,and also because she's well prepared for anything like chuck,while Kenny only care about his own goal and doesn't seems like someone who would listen to other idea,and at the end we see a situation similar to season 1 where Clem's guardian is fighting some maniac that obsessed with family,it's the same situation in season 2,I confused on why some people wanted to leave with someone like the latter.
You know...Except...Enraging a madman into trying to kill her...
Neither of them were Clem's guardian...
First of all, Jane brought up dead family members of Kenny in a negative way. Second, That shows that Clem is like family to Kenny and he would do anything. Third, Jane wouldn't shut up about her dead sister and was obsessed about how Clem is so much like her and how she misses her sister...Honestly Jane is the maniac obsessed with dead family and trying to replace them...Wait...They both are maniacs obsessed with dead family and trying to replace them and neither are proper guardians of Clem.
I like Jane because it is obvious that she takes the most care of Clementine. Jane teached her important things. Jane also returned to the group after she left them. She saved Clem's Life once. And in my opinion she never planned to kill Kenny. Remember she put her her knife down. . . . And she never asked Clem for shooting at Kenny or at least help within the fight. She just wanted to show how unstable Kenny is. It was the idea to demonstrate that Kenny have not changed not even a little bit.
By the way I think Jane is a beautiful woman. I am guilty. But hey how much people hate Jane only because they prefer Kenny?
Leaving her is taking care of her?
In episode 1 and 2 can use the things that Jane "teached" her
Then why she left in the first place?
If you grabed the gun when Kenny is about to stab her she ask her help
There are a lot more of ways to do it
Less than the ones you imagine
this shit wont end i guess...