I think kenny had a reason he did not want to kill jane if jane was not a ahole and would of told the truth it would not have got that far she try to prove a point she did not care for clem alvain or kenny
Honestly? I love both characters. But, I'll give a reasonable answer.
Lily killed Carley over insulting her, Kenny killed Jane because he believed her to have killed the baby.
Lilly got her own demons, you don't kill a innocent out of anger, then go on with her life, she isn't a sociopath
Lilly I am sure would have genuine remorse
As for Kenny, I always hated Jane's character tbh, it felt fake like silicone. Given the option, I would of shot her when she starts rattling on about her dead sister, then proceeds to talk shit about Sarah, a special needs girl. Seriously I hate Jane.
Like Lee didn't have to kill a man who hadn't done no serious wrong, and like how Kenny didn't have to straight out murder Jane because he presumed the baby was dead. And what if the baby was dead and the man Lee's wife had an affair with was a scumbag, is this supposed to make it okay? Sometimes things just happen and people have liiiiive with the consequences.
Pay attention to Lilly and her angry just burns out the second Carley or Doug are dead; if she'd kept acting like a raging mad lady like she was a few seconds before I'd of said fuck it, leave her, she's lost it.
They are different situations, however, I think that Lilly deserves a second chance. Kenny has had plenty of second chances and everyone still follows him like a dog with a bone, so why don't we throw Lilly a bone for once?
I like Kenny and Lily, I think Kenny was just given a lot more screen time with his 9 episode line up so he has a lot more people who understand him as opposed to Lily.... the most we learned about her at first was "Her mom died, her dad cared about her, she was in the airforce (I believe?) and she knows how to lead well." But I don't know, I like both of them. Also, about how people aren't okay with Lily killing /Carley/ because it was over a petty insult.... well, she technically in the Doug storyline was trying to shoot Ben, and Doug stepped in the way. Either way, it was a burst of emotion on her part either way, and so was Kenny's killing of Jane even though he thought she had killed a baby/family member to him. His outburst might've had slightly more reason to it, but at the same time, Lily was having a hard time trying to keep the group trustworthy. Point and case, I don't have a problem with either of them. Jane on the other hand, I didn't really care for too much, mostly because she reminded me a lot of Molly and if I had been the writers I would've just freaking brought Molly back somehow so the choice was tougher based on the fact that Clementine knew both Kenny and Molly. Jane seemed sort of sudden in the storyline for me. But oh well, boat has sailed xD
Kenny is not a psycho. He's a bit unhinged due to all the shit he has been through and all the losses, kinda like Rick. If you mess with what little he has left in this world, he will snap at you. Of course he snapped when Jane made it seem like she murdered AJ, imagine if Rick found out someone murdered Judith.. He'd slaughter em.
Like Lee didn't have to kill a man who hadn't done no serious wrong
The senator may not have deserved to die for having an affair with a married woman, but he wasn't exactly innocent--he was having an affair with a married woman. Also, Lee can say that what happened was an accident, which leads me to think that it was a fight that escalated into murder. If the senator was a scumbag, that's irrelevant...the murder took place b/c of the affair, not b/c Lee thought the guy was simply a dick...Lee wouldn't be the first person to murder their spouse or significant other's lover. Now, the justification for said murder isn't very strong, but again, the senator wasn't innocent...Lee killed him for having an affair with his wife, which the senator was guilty of...
Kenny didn't have to straight out murder Jane because he presumed the baby was dead
Kenny didn't simply presume the baby was dead...Jane intentionally lead him to believe the baby was dead. She walks in and says 'it was an accident'...that gives the impression that Jane wanted Kenny to think Aj was dead...and why would she want him to think that? Because she wanted Kenny to attack her so she could kill him with a clean conscience while showing Clementine 'just how dangerous Kenny really was'...so Jane, too, is not innocent...now did she deserve to die? that's not so clear cut...prior to the knowledge that Aj is actually alive, most people don't have any sympathy for baby killers...and then post knowledge of Aj, no, she didn't deserve to die, but Jane never attempts to tell Kenny she lied...and why not? because she wants Kenny gone. Even once she realizes that she's going to lose the fight she caused, instead of trying to come clean, she begs Clementine to help her. Jane may not have deserved to die, but her death can be justified.
Now, after Carley's murder, yes, she does make the plea that she forgave Lee and that she'll forgive Kenny, which may be true...but she's not showing remorse for having killed Carley, an innocent person (and then if the group does keep her around, how does she forgive them? by stealing the RV.)
Carley was completely innocent of the accusations being made against her. Carley wasn't even threatening Lilly...Carley's last words are, "...why don't you try taking a page out of Lee's book and try helping somebody for once.." and she gets shot in the face....and nothing Carley said prior to those words was threatening either. Also, Lilly tells Ben that he has X amount of time to tell her that it was Carley and not him....before they stop the RV Lilly initially thinks it's Ben, but when Carley stands up to him she starts accusing Carley...Lilly didn't never really liked Carley b/c Carley stood up to her when she felt Lilly was in the wrong...that's why Carley (and I think Glenn) save the gang outside the pharmacy when Lilly and Larry are against doing so. and this is pretty obvious when after the murder Lilly tries to justify by saying that Carley couldn't be trusted....but Carley was one of the most trust worthy people in their group...so Lilly trying to justify her actions by saying she did what needed to be done and that Carley couldn't be trusted is a fallacy b/c it goes against everything about Carley that we've been shown.
Sometimes things just happen and people have liiiiive with the consequences
this would've been some great advice for Lilly to have taken on the RV...the bandit attack...even though no one in their group was killed (Duck was bitten, but only Katja and maybe Kenny know at this point) Lilly couldn't let it go, at least for the time being....or when Lilly steals the RV b/c the group restrains her hands...which is completely understandable given what happened with Carley(or Doug)
Like Lee didn't have to kill a man who hadn't done no serious wrong, and like how Kenny didn't have to straight out murder Jane because he p… moreresumed the baby was dead. And what if the baby was dead and the man Lee's wife had an affair with was a scumbag, is this supposed to make it okay? Sometimes things just happen and people have liiiiive with the consequences.
Pay attention to Lilly and her angry just burns out the second Carley or Doug are dead; if she'd kept acting like a raging mad lady like she was a few seconds before I'd of said fuck it, leave her, she's lost it.
They along with lee and clem seemed like the only realistic characters who would do what it takes to survive in a world like this.
Don't get me started on s2 cookie cutter group of idiot puss, 'lets all be nice to our hostage and not our own group, he runs... who cares. He and his friends ambushed us then shot at us... who cares, alright cya clem hope you don't die'
They along with lee and clem seemed like the only realistic characters who would do what it takes to survive in a world like this.
Don't g… moreet me started on s2 cookie cutter group of idiot puss, 'lets all be nice to our hostage and not our own group, he runs... who cares. He and his friends ambushed us then shot at us... who cares, alright cya clem hope you don't die'
Why are you sobbing over a thread?
It seems like a perfectly legitimate question to me. And I, for one, want to get to the bottom of this mystery.
Any ideals?
I'm asking you a question, If you don't want to answer it maturely than so be it. I had also tried multiple times apologizing to you for any friction my responses caused, you had never responded so I assumed you didn't care for my attempt to amicably build a bridge. From where I am, it seems you don't wish to do anything other than complain because I happen to hate a fictional character or two that you like.
So, what is it? Is it the fact I don't like AJ and want him out of the story to reduce further harm to Clementine's progression as a character? Is it that I hate Kenny as a character? Or something else? I apologized, no response. I extend a hand, nothing. I jokingly ask a light-hearted question to someone who is becoming more and more synonymous on these forums as a ball breaker, another overly aggressive response. I think you enjoy the attention and you feign for it secretly.
Talk to me as an adult and I promise I'll do the same.
Funny that you mention Judith. Lilly in the game was originally supposed to be Lilly Caul from the comics. Person who murdered Judith and Lori. And Rick didn't kill her. She is still alive.
Kenny is not a psycho. He's a bit unhinged due to all the shit he has been through and all the losses, kinda like Rick. If you mess with wha… moret little he has left in this world, he will snap at you. Of course he snapped when Jane made it seem like she murdered AJ, imagine if Rick found out someone murdered Judith.. He'd slaughter em.
I guess Jane forgot that she sweet talked Troy before she shot him in the dick and left him to be eaten alive (not to say that Troy was a nice guy or anything)
The moment Jane started to compare Kenny to Carver I wanted a option to say...
'And that's while he'll survive and you won't. In this wo… morerld there are no good guys and bad guys.'
I doubt Rick stays up all night crying about the countless people he has killed.
Man Jane was an idiot.
Like Lee didn't have to kill a man who hadn't done no serious wrong
The senator may not have deserved to die for having an affair wi… moreth a married woman, but he wasn't exactly innocent--he was having an affair with a married woman. Also, Lee can say that what happened was an accident, which leads me to think that it was a fight that escalated into murder. If the senator was a scumbag, that's irrelevant...the murder took place b/c of the affair, not b/c Lee thought the guy was simply a dick...Lee wouldn't be the first person to murder their spouse or significant other's lover. Now, the justification for said murder isn't very strong, but again, the senator wasn't innocent...Lee killed him for having an affair with his wife, which the senator was guilty of...
Kenny didn't have to straight out murder Jane because he presumed the baby was dead
Kenny didn't simply presume the baby was dead...Jane intentionally lead him to belie… [view original content]
Yeah like Rick had a chance.
He would've if it was just her there, and he wasn't trying to survive and save his injured son. you'd be an idiot to think otherwise
Yes, there were circumstances. All I'm saying that while there are plenty of examples where Rick has dealt swift justice, Judith is a bad example, because it's one of those occasions when Rick and others didn't punish the murderer.
Yeah like Rick had a chance.
He would've if it was just her there, and he wasn't trying to survive and save his injured son. you'd be an idiot to think otherwise
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead, and a very, very imminent danger to everyone in the group. Even if you personally prefer to try and save Larry, you can't really say doing otherwise is psychotic. There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead,
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, not a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable.
There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. But where was he after he ran out of the barn? Cause I didn't see him in the house.)
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead, and a very, very imminent danger to everyone in the group. Even if you … morepersonally prefer to try and save Larry, you can't really say doing otherwise is psychotic. There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, not a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable
Are.. you.. serious? You're going to hang onto my word choice that much? We're talking about a video game character here, not a real person. Please don't take this so ridiculously serious.
Anyway, there was really no other good way to say what I said. Kenny and I finished Larry off. This isn't an offensive sort of phrase, it's just what we did, point blank and simple.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. But where was he after he ran out of the barn? Cause I didn't see him in the house.)
Are you intentionally being obstinate? I know you understand the opposing argument here as you've been beaten over the head with it, and yet every time you discuss this particular situation it's like it's your first time having the conversation. I know you hate Kenny with a passion, but please try and be a little less biased. You're completely ignoring the general thought process here. The group was trapped in a small room with a 6-4, 250+lb man who was lying dead on the floor. He wasn't breathing, he had no heart beat. There was a small window of opportunity to try and resuscitate the man before he would awake as a walker, but the chance of bringing him back from the state he was in without any medical equipment at all was unlikely. And even in the case of somehow bringing him back, the chances of him surviving the trauma without medical equipment let alone any medication at all was also unlikely. On top of all of that, Larry could have reanimated as a walker within a matter of mere minutes. If he were to turn on them, the group would certainly not be able to handle that situation with any amount of certainty as they were completely unarmed, and Larry would be a freshly turned walker who is not only much bigger, but also stronger than any of them. So given all of these undeniable facts, Kenny (and myself) found it necessary to make sure Larry didn't come back and kill everyone. It made no sense to risk everything over a ridiculous long shot. And it's not even as if Kenny wanted to do it, he just knew that it had to be done to ensure everyone's safety. That isn't psychotic, that isn't irrational.
Also, the debate over whether or not Larry took a breath after doing compressions opposed to turning into a walker is completely irrelevant to whether or not Kenny's decision making was rational or not. Even if that was Larry taking an actual breath, that doesn't change the fact that bringing him back was unlikely to happen in the first place, and it doesn't change the fact that there were a ton of risks surrounding trying to bring him back.
I find it very ironic that you're the same guy who has straight up said that you would kill/abandon a newborn baby if it meant saving yourself or your other group members... and yet you're acting like "finishing off" a dead man is some sort heinous, psychotic sort of thing to do. What's up with the contradicting logic there?
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead,
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, no… moret a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable.
There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. But where was he after he ran out of the barn? Cause I didn't see him in the house.)
Maybe peace and happiness in this forum would thrive if the discussers wouldn’t lump together an unspecific number of supporters of a certain video game character and also try to leave out the word psychotic (or maybe substitute it with special or oddly amusing) if you refer to them. Seriously, nobody is psychotic for making a certain decision in this game. You can use it to describe Kenny without hesitation though.
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead,
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, no… moret a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable.
There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. But where was he after he ran out of the barn? Cause I didn't see him in the house.)
Let me explain something to you. Killing is justifiable if put into a situation that calls for something so extreme, a measure of great desperation. That I do understand, but it seems a lot of people fail to remember the subsequent actions, or a lack there of, that Kenny took. Lee can be held up at gunpoint in front of Kenny, he wasn't doing anything other than nodding and looking scarred shitless. This ties into his violent repercussions he took to kill off a man who, although a potential threat, showed literally no signs of reanimation. He squashed in a head without warning anyone, just imagine if he tripped and it crushed Lilly's spinal cord or God forbid hit Lee. It was incredibly stupid, and instead of trying to console or comfort Lilly over the span of the weeks transitioned around episode 2 and 3, he continued being an ass to her. This ties into what I'm saying in terms of Kenny being a douche and a terrible friend. Because literally going against him once to try to save the life of someone else who, given the circumstance, was very much innocent he believes to be a mutiny.
And here's the thing, what's bad is bad. No matter how you spin the circumstance, Kenny had no pre-existing knowledge of some flimsy statistic pulled from whatever to reference his own insecurities. He acted on a biases that Larry wasn't worth saving, he was "expendable" in his eyes. He even goes as far as boastfully responding to Lee, if asked "Happy?", he says "You're goddamn right I am."
People need to understand a chain of events and that killing Larry alone doesn't make me hate the action, it's everything after that shows his true colors.
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, not a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about… more, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable
Are.. you.. serious? You're going to hang onto my word choice that much? We're talking about a video game character here, not a real person. Please don't take this so ridiculously serious.
Anyway, there was really no other good way to say what I said. Kenny and I finished Larry off. This isn't an offensive sort of phrase, it's just what we did, point blank and simple.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. Bu… [view original content]
I was more referring to if the murderer of AMC Rick's baby showed up in front of him, like how Jane showed up. It was more of a prediction of what Rick would do if the circumstances were the same. I know comic book Rick couldn't kill the murderer because it was during the prison war while trying to escape, I don't even think he could even tell which one shot her. It was at the spur of the moment and there were too much gunfire. I think AMC's Rick will slaughter the killer of Judith, during war(Against The Wolves i'm guessing) or after.
Yes, there were circumstances. All I'm saying that while there are plenty of examples where Rick has dealt swift justice, Judith is a bad example, because it's one of those occasions when Rick and others didn't punish the murderer.
discussers wouldn’t lump together an unspecific number of supporters of a certain video game character and also try to leave out the word psychotic
Ugh.
full psychotic explanations
I don't see what you're talking about... I said "explanations." I never said Belan was psychotic, just that his explanation of the action Kenny took was veering that direction.
Maybe peace and happiness in this forum would thrive if the discussers wouldn’t lump together an unspecific number of supporters of a certai… moren video game character and also try to leave out the word psychotic (or maybe substitute it with special or oddly amusing) if you refer to them. Seriously, nobody is psychotic for making a certain decision in this game. You can use it to describe Kenny without hesitation though.
You know, maybe this just factors in to personal interpretation, but I always felt like Kenny was just full of self-loathing after killing L… morearry and just wasn't capable of dealing with his emotions properly. I never really saw all of the shit he flung at Lilly and the group truly being directed towards them. I think he definitely realizes that he's the bad guy/monster in the story, and he doesn't know how to deal with it, or rather, doesn't know how to face it. It's already been proven that Kenny deals with anger/grief/etc in a very outward and explosive manner, usually blowing up at the people around him and projecting his feelings onto other people.
That annoyed grumbling, for example. I never saw that as some "how dare you be angry that I killed your dad", I saw that in a completely different light. I saw that as something as an attempt to shrug off the fact that he fucked up. Trying to deny what happened, a desperate attempt absolve to… [view original content]
Let me explain something to you. Killing is justifiable if put into a situation that calls for something so extreme, a measure of great desperation.
Which the meat locker situation absolutely was. Kenny certainly thought so, and there is a lot of reasoning to back him up, as described above. It's not even all that debatable, they were undeniably in a potential life or death situation. If they failed to resuscitate Larry in a small window of time, he would have reanimated and very well could have killed members of the group given the situation.
Going back to you being totally okay with killing a living, defenseless baby in order to save yourself, how can you actually say that is justifiable but then be completely against finishing off a dead man who has the group in the middle of a potential life or death situation? You're essentially saying that you're all for sacrificing someone else (a baby at that..) if it means getting yourself out of a bad situation... but then you're 100% against the idea of doing a lesser evil in the meat locker (because Larry is actually a very dangerous direct threat, where as the baby isn't). It doesn't make any sense. Even if you don't want to acknowledge the meat locker situation as a terribly dangerous situation, that doesn't change the fact that you're seemingly okay with killing totally innocent individuals if that means saving yourself from what you personally perceive to be a life or death situation. It's still contradictive.
That I do understand, but it seems a lot of people fail to remember the subsequent actions, or a lack there of, that Kenny took. Lee can be held up at gunpoint in front of Kenny, he wasn't doing anything other than nodding and looking scarred shitless.
This has nothing to do with whether or not his actions were rational in the meat locker. And what was he supposed to do anyway? The group had no leverage in that situation. No one did anything. Kenny wasn't the only who didn't take action at that moment.
This ties into his violent repercussions he took to kill off a man who, although a potential threat, showed literally no signs of reanimation.
How does it tie into it at all? They're two totally different things. It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the known facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational.
He squashed in a head without warning anyone, just imagine if he tripped and it crushed Lilly's spinal cord or God forbid hit Lee.
Of course he did it without warning anyone. Obviously if everyone else is against his plan of action, then what else is he to do? He was still trying to save their lives. Tripping and dropping a salt lick isn't going to seriously hurt anyone... let alone break someone's spinal cord. Seriously, how much do you actually think that thing weighs..? It doesn't weigh nearly enough to hurt someone to that extent simply by stumbling and rolling into onto them.
instead of trying to console or comfort Lilly over the span of the weeks transitioned around episode 2 and 3, he continued being an ass to her. This ties into what I'm saying in terms of Kenny being a douche and a terrible friend.
I'm not even going to debate that, as it has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
And here's the thing, what's bad is bad. No matter how you spin the circumstance, Kenny had no pre-existing knowledge of some flimsy statistic pulled from whatever to reference his own insecurities.
First of all, that's nothing more than complete assumption on your part. Second of all, it's not as if we're talking about some sort of largely unknown fact here. Third of all, even if Kenny had no understanding about the effects of a heart attack (we don't know this to be true at all), that doesn't change the fact that bringing Larry back was a long shot.
He acted on a biases that Larry wasn't worth saving, he was "expendable" in his eyes.
He only believes Larry isn't worth saving in the sense of the context of the situation. Kenny didn't think there was any reasonable way that they could save him, and wanted to save the group from a potential life or death situation.
He even goes as far as boastfully responding to Lee, if asked "Happy?", he says "You're goddamn right I am."
How is that boastful at all? All that shows is that he was content with his decision making.
People need to understand a chain of events and that killing Larry alone doesn't make me hate the action, it's everything after that shows his true colors.
So why are you even debating the issue then? I've really only been debating the meat locker situation, as you originally made it clear that you thought he was stupid/psychotic for what he did there.
I'll also add that I'm not even necessarily against you trying to save Larry. I'm only asking you to recognize the thought process of not only Kenny, but also the people who agreed with his actions in the meat locker.
Let me explain something to you. Killing is justifiable if put into a situation that calls for something so extreme, a measure of great desp… moreeration. That I do understand, but it seems a lot of people fail to remember the subsequent actions, or a lack there of, that Kenny took. Lee can be held up at gunpoint in front of Kenny, he wasn't doing anything other than nodding and looking scarred shitless. This ties into his violent repercussions he took to kill off a man who, although a potential threat, showed literally no signs of reanimation. He squashed in a head without warning anyone, just imagine if he tripped and it crushed Lilly's spinal cord or God forbid hit Lee. It was incredibly stupid, and instead of trying to console or comfort Lilly over the span of the weeks transitioned around episode 2 and 3, he continued being an ass to her. This ties into what I'm saying in terms of Kenny being a douche and a terrible friend. Because literally g… [view original content]
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, which means nothing.
This has nothing to do with whether or not his actions were rational in the meat locker. And what was he supposed to do anyway? The group had no leverage in that situation. No one did anything. Kenny wasn't the only who didn't take action at that moment.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now? (rhetorical question)
Of course he did it without warning anyone. Obviously if everyone else is against his plan of action, then what else is he to do? He was still trying to save their lives. Tripping and dropping a salt lick isn't going to seriously hurt anyone... let alone break someone's spinal cord. Seriously, how much do you actually think that thing weighs..? It doesn't weigh nearly enough to hurt someone to that extent simply by stumbling and rolling into onto them.
Your arguments are getting worse. How heavy? Heavy enough to smash someone's head in just by dropping it, so it stands to reason it'd be more than heavy to fracture a spinal cord. What?
I'm not even going to debate that, as it has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Of course you're not going to debate that. It was wrong of him, you know it yet you've run out of excuses for his general lack of compassion. Would you like to try that one again?
First of all, that's nothing more than complete assumption on your part. Second of all, it's not as if we're talking about some sort of largely unknown fact here. Third of all, even if Kenny had no understanding about the effects of a heart attack (we don't know this to be true at all), that doesn't change the fact that bringing Larry back was a long shot.
Long enough that he exhaled a breath after four simple chest compressions. I know what you're going to say as well but save it. He wasn't twitching, moaning, or showed any pale discoloration. He was alive and it's pretty clear.
How does it tie into it at all? They're two totally different things. It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the know facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational.
The pale skin is a crucial argument. How are you not getting this? Have you seen any walker throughout any episode of the game that didn't have some skin discoloration? Any at all? (again, rhetorical)
... how is that boastful at all? All that shows is that he was content with his decision making. And again, this doesn't really have to do with anything
It ties in with it, yes it does.
Fact: A man killed a person in front of the persons daughter and a little girl, he never made amends with the daughter and went so far as to nag and argue with her. He stayed hidden while another group member lie helpless to a degraded cannibal and yet continued bickering with him and telling him "I saved the group."
You can add as many variable as you like, but it still isn't right. In fact, I'd say it's pretty fucking fucked up.
Let me explain something to you. Killing is justifiable if put into a situation that calls for something so extreme, a measure of great desp… moreeration.
Which the meat locker situation absolutely was. Kenny certainly thought so, and there is a lot of reasoning to back him up, as described above. It's not even all that debatable, they were undeniably in a potential life or death situation. If they failed to resuscitate Larry in a small window of time, he would have reanimated and very well could have killed members of the group given the situation.
Going back to you being totally okay with killing a living, defenseless baby in order to save yourself, how can you actually say that is justifiable but then be completely against finishing off a dead man who has the group in the middle of a potential life or death situation? You're essentially saying that you're all for sacrificing someone else (a baby at that..) if it means getting yourself… [view original content]
Sorry, meant to get back to you quicker, but got a little distracted.
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, which means nothing.
Like I said, he thought so with good reason. I've already described this in detail. Either debate my points or don't bother telling me I'm wrong. If it supposedly means nothing, then please explain why that is. You're not really bringing anything to the table.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now?
Oh, you're talking about when they were hiding in the stall when attempting to sneak up on Danny?? My bad on that, definitely wasn't on the same page, as this detail is completely determinant and not one that I have actually ever had happen. This is a totally different issue anyway, and has nothing to do with his actions in the meat locker. You can argue that it would have been smarter to not be vengeful against Lee in that moment so as to have a greater chance at saving his family, but that is a completely separate argument to have, and I'm not going to go into it as it's irrelevant.
Your arguments are getting worse. How heavy? Heavy enough to smash someone's head in just by dropping it, so it stands to reason it'd be more than heavy to fracture a spinal cord. What?
Are you kidding me? That's like saying dropping a hammer on someone's head should be a devastating injury just because when you hit someone in the head with a hammer as hard as you can, you can potentially kill them, at the very worst severely injure them. But yeah man, my arguments are the ones going downhill here..
Seriously, how much do you think a salt lick weighs? From a quick search online, most apparently weigh up to 50lbs. We're not talking about an incredibly heavy object here. Larry's skull didn't break just from the sheer weight of the salt lick... Kenny brought the thing down with all his strength. Could Kenny potentially have hurt someone a little if he stumbled with the thing? Yes. Could he have killed them or given them sort of devastating injury? No. Rolling a 50lb weight onto someone's back because of stumbling isn't going to break their spinal cord.
I carry around multiple cases of 40lb, solid boxes in my arms all at once while at work. It's a wonder I haven't killed anyone yet.. that's some pretty dangerous shit that I'm walking around with...
Of course you're not going to debate that. It was wrong of him, you know it yet you've run out of excuses for his general lack of compassion. Would you like to try that one again?
No thanks. Can discussions on here not stay a straight course? I'm not gong to debate about Kenny being a little insensitive to Lilly, as that's not what we're talking about.
Long enough that he exhaled a breath after four simple chest compressions. I know what you're going to say as well but save it. He wasn't twitching, moaning, or showed any pale discoloration. He was alive and it's pretty clear.
... like I said before, Larry responding to chest compressions doesn't change the fact that reviving Larry was a long shot. Just because he happened to debatably beat the odds and respond to the compressions does not mean the situation was not a long shot.
Lets say you have a jar of 50 red jellybeans and buried within are 5 blue jellybeans. I insist that blindly pulling a blue jellybean out of that jar is a long shot, but you decide to try anyway. In doing so, you somehow manage to actually succeed in pulling out a blue jelly bean. You then go on to claim that pulling a blue jellybean out the jar wasn't a long shot, just because you happened to beat the odds. That's your logic here...
Also, why did you ignore like 90% of the part of my post you were responding to there? Should I just assume you're in agreement?
The pale skin is a crucial argument. How are you not getting this? Have you seen any walker throughout any episode of the game that didn't have some skin discoloration? Any at all?
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to you last time, as you did nothing to refute what I said:
It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the know facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational.
Fact: A man killed a person in front of the persons daughter and a little girl, he never made amends with the daughter and went so far as to nag and argue with her. He stayed hidden while another group member lie helpless to a degraded cannibal and yet continued bickering with him and telling him "I saved the group." You can add as many variable as you like, but it still isn't right. In fact, I'd say it's pretty fucking fucked up.
Not going to argue over this. I love how conversations constantly get warped. Not sure if you remember, but all I have really been debating with you is the meat locker situation. That's all I brought up from the very start. Like I said earlier in this comment, Kenny being insensitive to Lilly has nothing to do with Kenny's actions in the meat locker being psychotic or irrational (which is again all that I was questioning).
Kenny certainly thought so
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, which means nothing.
This has nothing … moreto do with whether or not his actions were rational in the meat locker. And what was he supposed to do anyway? The group had no leverage in that situation. No one did anything. Kenny wasn't the only who didn't take action at that moment.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now? (rhetorical question)
Of course he did it without warning anyone. Obviously if everyone else is against his plan of action, then what else is he to do? He was still trying to save their lives. Tripping and dropping a salt lick… [view original content]
Kenny certainly thought so
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, which means nothing.
This has nothing … moreto do with whether or not his actions were rational in the meat locker. And what was he supposed to do anyway? The group had no leverage in that situation. No one did anything. Kenny wasn't the only who didn't take action at that moment.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now? (rhetorical question)
Of course he did it without warning anyone. Obviously if everyone else is against his plan of action, then what else is he to do? He was still trying to save their lives. Tripping and dropping a salt lick… [view original content]
Have you seen any walker throughout any episode of the game that didn't have some skin discoloration? Any at all?
In all fairness, a… morelmost everyone we've seen turn has suffered some kind of extreme or quick blood loss, which can explain the skin discoloration
David/Travis: leg chopped off
Mark: legs chopped off
Brie: Disemboweled
Natasha: Shot through the chest/heart
Nick: Bitten on the neck/jugular
Brenda: Bitten on the neck/jugular
Larry is the only individual who has died in such a way that doesn't involve blood loss
I like Lily, even though she killed Carley and stole the RV. I can forgive her for that, but I really wanted to go with her instead of staying in that clusterfuck of a group.
At this point I'm not certain if AMC is going to kill her at all. They had plenty of opportunities to get her killed, but they decided to keep her alive.
I was more referring to if the murderer of AMC Rick's baby showed up in front of him, like how Jane showed up. It was more of a prediction o… moref what Rick would do if the circumstances were the same. I know comic book Rick couldn't kill the murderer because it was during the prison war while trying to escape, I don't even think he could even tell which one shot her. It was at the spur of the moment and there were too much gunfire. I think AMC's Rick will slaughter the killer of Judith, during war(Against The Wolves i'm guessing) or after.
They are different situations, however, I think that Lilly deserves a second chance. Kenny has had plenty of second chances and everyone still follows him like a dog with a bone, so why don't we throw Lilly a bone for once?
Oh fuck, we need to get in contact some other way. Typing out an entire novel every post is not too fun.
Like I said, he thought so with good reason. I've already described this in detail. Either debate my points or don't bother telling me I'm wrong. If it supposedly means nothing, then please explain why that is. You're not really bringing anything to the table.
Oh, you're talking about when they were hiding in the stall when attempting to sneak up on Danny?? My bad on that, definitely wasn't on the same page, as this detail is completely determinant and not one that I have actually ever had happen. This is a totally different issue anyway, and has nothing to do with his actions in the meat locker. You can argue that it would have been smarter to not be vengeful against Lee in that moment so as to have a greater chance at saving his family, but that is a completely separate argument to have, and I'm not going to go into it as it's irrelevant
Are you kidding me? That's like saying dropping a hammer on someone's head should be a devastating injury just because when you hit someone in the head with a hammer as hard as you can, you can potentially kill them, at the very worst severely injure them. But yeah man, my arguments are the ones going downhill here..
Seriously, how much do you think a salt lick weighs? From a quick search online, most apparently weigh up to 50lbs. We're not talking about an incredibly heavy object here. Larry's skull didn't break just from the sheer weight of the salt lick... Kenny brought the thing down with all his strength. Could Kenny potentially have hurt someone a little if he stumbled with the thing? Yes. Could he have killed them or given them sort of devastating injury? No. Rolling a 50lb weight onto someone's back because of stumbling isn't going to break their spinal cord.
I carry around multiple cases of 40lb, solid boxes in my arms all at once while at work. It's a wonder I haven't killed anyone yet.. that's some pretty dangerous shit that I'm walking around with...
No thanks. Can discussions on here not stay a straight course? I'm not gong to debate about Kenny being a little insensitive to Lilly, as that's not what we're talking about.
... like I said before, Larry responding to chest compressions doesn't change the fact that reviving Larry was a long shot. Just because he happened to debatably beat the odds and respond to the compressions does not mean the situation was not a long shot.
Lets say you have a jar of 50 red jellybeans and buried within are 5 blue jellybeans. I insist that blindly pulling a blue jellybean out of that jar is a long shot, but you decide to try anyway. In doing so, you somehow manage to actually succeed in pulling out a blue jelly bean. You then go on to claim that pulling a blue jellybean out the jar wasn't a long shot, just because you happened to beat the odds. That's your logic here...
Also, why did you ignore like 90% of the part of my post you were responding to there? Should I just assume you're in agreement?
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to you last time, as you did nothing to refute what I said:
It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the know facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational
Not going to argue over this. I love how conversations constantly get warped. Not sure if you remember, but all I have really been debating with you is the meat locker situation. That's all I brought up from the very start. Like I said earlier in this comment, Kenny being insensitive to Lilly has nothing to do with Kenny's actions in the meat locker being psychotic or irrational (which is again all that I was questioning).
I mean, look at all that. Oh my god, I don't even rightly know how to start cause I feel we're just going to move in circles. Please, for my sake from now on give me the short version cause I'm literally overwhelmed. That's why I skim over some of your points sometimes cause there's just too much to be addressed for practical purposes.
Other than that, you know what I'm going to say as I know what you're going to say so I guess I'm cashing my chips in for now, if for no other reason than I was at work all night thinking of how I was going to go about doing this with you again and I can't, I just can't. It's too much, and I'm real tired now.
Sorry, meant to get back to you quicker, but got a little distracted.
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, whi… morech means nothing.
Like I said, he thought so with good reason. I've already described this in detail. Either debate my points or don't bother telling me I'm wrong. If it supposedly means nothing, then please explain why that is. You're not really bringing anything to the table.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now?
Oh, you're talking about when they were hiding in the stall when attempting to sneak up on Danny?? My bad on that, definitely wasn't on the same page, as this detail is complete… [view original content]
Comments
Can't I support both? Because I like both.
I think kenny had a reason he did not want to kill jane if jane was not a ahole and would of told the truth it would not have got that far she try to prove a point she did not care for clem alvain or kenny
Honestly? I love both characters. But, I'll give a reasonable answer.
Lily killed Carley over insulting her, Kenny killed Jane because he believed her to have killed the baby.
Who says it's not ok?
Lilly got her own demons, you don't kill a innocent out of anger, then go on with her life, she isn't a sociopath
Lilly I am sure would have genuine remorse
As for Kenny, I always hated Jane's character tbh, it felt fake like silicone. Given the option, I would of shot her when she starts rattling on about her dead sister, then proceeds to talk shit about Sarah, a special needs girl. Seriously I hate Jane.
Like Lee didn't have to kill a man who hadn't done no serious wrong, and like how Kenny didn't have to straight out murder Jane because he presumed the baby was dead. And what if the baby was dead and the man Lee's wife had an affair with was a scumbag, is this supposed to make it okay? Sometimes things just happen and people have liiiiive with the consequences.
Pay attention to Lilly and her angry just burns out the second Carley or Doug are dead; if she'd kept acting like a raging mad lady like she was a few seconds before I'd of said fuck it, leave her, she's lost it.
They are different situations, however, I think that Lilly deserves a second chance. Kenny has had plenty of second chances and everyone still follows him like a dog with a bone, so why don't we throw Lilly a bone for once?
I like Kenny and Lily, I think Kenny was just given a lot more screen time with his 9 episode line up so he has a lot more people who understand him as opposed to Lily.... the most we learned about her at first was "Her mom died, her dad cared about her, she was in the airforce (I believe?) and she knows how to lead well." But I don't know, I like both of them. Also, about how people aren't okay with Lily killing /Carley/ because it was over a petty insult.... well, she technically in the Doug storyline was trying to shoot Ben, and Doug stepped in the way. Either way, it was a burst of emotion on her part either way, and so was Kenny's killing of Jane even though he thought she had killed a baby/family member to him. His outburst might've had slightly more reason to it, but at the same time, Lily was having a hard time trying to keep the group trustworthy. Point and case, I don't have a problem with either of them. Jane on the other hand, I didn't really care for too much, mostly because she reminded me a lot of Molly and if I had been the writers I would've just freaking brought Molly back somehow so the choice was tougher based on the fact that Clementine knew both Kenny and Molly. Jane seemed sort of sudden in the storyline for me. But oh well, boat has sailed xD
Kenny is not a psycho. He's a bit unhinged due to all the shit he has been through and all the losses, kinda like Rick. If you mess with what little he has left in this world, he will snap at you. Of course he snapped when Jane made it seem like she murdered AJ, imagine if Rick found out someone murdered Judith.. He'd slaughter em.
The senator may not have deserved to die for having an affair with a married woman, but he wasn't exactly innocent--he was having an affair with a married woman. Also, Lee can say that what happened was an accident, which leads me to think that it was a fight that escalated into murder. If the senator was a scumbag, that's irrelevant...the murder took place b/c of the affair, not b/c Lee thought the guy was simply a dick...Lee wouldn't be the first person to murder their spouse or significant other's lover. Now, the justification for said murder isn't very strong, but again, the senator wasn't innocent...Lee killed him for having an affair with his wife, which the senator was guilty of...
Kenny didn't simply presume the baby was dead...Jane intentionally lead him to believe the baby was dead. She walks in and says 'it was an accident'...that gives the impression that Jane wanted Kenny to think Aj was dead...and why would she want him to think that? Because she wanted Kenny to attack her so she could kill him with a clean conscience while showing Clementine 'just how dangerous Kenny really was'...so Jane, too, is not innocent...now did she deserve to die? that's not so clear cut...prior to the knowledge that Aj is actually alive, most people don't have any sympathy for baby killers...and then post knowledge of Aj, no, she didn't deserve to die, but Jane never attempts to tell Kenny she lied...and why not? because she wants Kenny gone. Even once she realizes that she's going to lose the fight she caused, instead of trying to come clean, she begs Clementine to help her. Jane may not have deserved to die, but her death can be justified.
Now, after Carley's murder, yes, she does make the plea that she forgave Lee and that she'll forgive Kenny, which may be true...but she's not showing remorse for having killed Carley, an innocent person (and then if the group does keep her around, how does she forgive them? by stealing the RV.)
Carley was completely innocent of the accusations being made against her. Carley wasn't even threatening Lilly...Carley's last words are, "...why don't you try taking a page out of Lee's book and try helping somebody for once.." and she gets shot in the face....and nothing Carley said prior to those words was threatening either. Also, Lilly tells Ben that he has X amount of time to tell her that it was Carley and not him....before they stop the RV Lilly initially thinks it's Ben, but when Carley stands up to him she starts accusing Carley...Lilly didn't never really liked Carley b/c Carley stood up to her when she felt Lilly was in the wrong...that's why Carley (and I think Glenn) save the gang outside the pharmacy when Lilly and Larry are against doing so. and this is pretty obvious when after the murder Lilly tries to justify by saying that Carley couldn't be trusted....but Carley was one of the most trust worthy people in their group...so Lilly trying to justify her actions by saying she did what needed to be done and that Carley couldn't be trusted is a fallacy b/c it goes against everything about Carley that we've been shown.
this would've been some great advice for Lilly to have taken on the RV...the bandit attack...even though no one in their group was killed (Duck was bitten, but only Katja and maybe Kenny know at this point) Lilly couldn't let it go, at least for the time being....or when Lilly steals the RV b/c the group restrains her hands...which is completely understandable given what happened with Carley(or Doug)
They along with lee and clem seemed like the only realistic characters who would do what it takes to survive in a world like this.
Don't get me started on s2 cookie cutter group of idiot puss, 'lets all be nice to our hostage and not our own group, he runs... who cares. He and his friends ambushed us then shot at us... who cares, alright cya clem hope you don't die'
The moment Jane started to compare Kenny to Carver I wanted a option to say...
'And that's while he'll survive and you won't. In this world there are no good guys and bad guys.'
I doubt Rick stays up all night crying about the countless people he has killed.
Man Jane was an idiot.
Here's your answer in a nutshell:
Just imagine having that shoved down your throat every time you visit this forum. Every. Time.
I'm asking you a question, If you don't want to answer it maturely than so be it. I had also tried multiple times apologizing to you for any friction my responses caused, you had never responded so I assumed you didn't care for my attempt to amicably build a bridge. From where I am, it seems you don't wish to do anything other than complain because I happen to hate a fictional character or two that you like.
So, what is it? Is it the fact I don't like AJ and want him out of the story to reduce further harm to Clementine's progression as a character? Is it that I hate Kenny as a character? Or something else? I apologized, no response. I extend a hand, nothing. I jokingly ask a light-hearted question to someone who is becoming more and more synonymous on these forums as a ball breaker, another overly aggressive response. I think you enjoy the attention and you feign for it secretly.
Talk to me as an adult and I promise I'll do the same.
Funny that you mention Judith. Lilly in the game was originally supposed to be Lilly Caul from the comics. Person who murdered Judith and Lori. And Rick didn't kill her. She is still alive.
I guess Jane forgot that she sweet talked Troy before she shot him in the dick and left him to be eaten alive (not to say that Troy was a nice guy or anything)
Well I still stand by the points I've made
I don't really have anything else to add.
LOL Grow up. Jesus.
Yeah like Rick had a chance.
He would've if it was just her there, and he wasn't trying to survive and save his injured son. you'd be an idiot to think otherwise
Yes, there were circumstances. All I'm saying that while there are plenty of examples where Rick has dealt swift justice, Judith is a bad example, because it's one of those occasions when Rick and others didn't punish the murderer.
Yeah I'm serious. This is a game with fictional people while you are a real person. I shouldn't be rude to a real person over fake ones.
It's not psychotic to finish off a guy who is arguably already dead, and a very, very imminent danger to everyone in the group. Even if you personally prefer to try and save Larry, you can't really say doing otherwise is psychotic. There was good/ rational reasoning for doing what Kenny did, whether you agree with the course of action or not.
Finish off? What is Larry to you? You finish off a cocktail, not a human life. I find that the more and more stuff like this is talked about, the more slowly some of the Kenny supporters inch their way to full psychotic explanations for why it was justifiable.
"Rational?" What is rational about crushing someone's head in without telling anyone who took a breath if Lee does so much as four compressions? There's nothing at all rational about his actions, in or out of the locker (like waiting for Lee to die even though Ken was so "hell-bent" on saving his family. But where was he after he ran out of the barn? Cause I didn't see him in the house.)
Ok then, I accept your apology. And I'll give you one too, I do apologize for any unneeded aggression I've caused to you as well.
Are.. you.. serious? You're going to hang onto my word choice that much? We're talking about a video game character here, not a real person. Please don't take this so ridiculously serious.
Anyway, there was really no other good way to say what I said. Kenny and I finished Larry off. This isn't an offensive sort of phrase, it's just what we did, point blank and simple.
Are you intentionally being obstinate? I know you understand the opposing argument here as you've been beaten over the head with it, and yet every time you discuss this particular situation it's like it's your first time having the conversation. I know you hate Kenny with a passion, but please try and be a little less biased. You're completely ignoring the general thought process here. The group was trapped in a small room with a 6-4, 250+lb man who was lying dead on the floor. He wasn't breathing, he had no heart beat. There was a small window of opportunity to try and resuscitate the man before he would awake as a walker, but the chance of bringing him back from the state he was in without any medical equipment at all was unlikely. And even in the case of somehow bringing him back, the chances of him surviving the trauma without medical equipment let alone any medication at all was also unlikely. On top of all of that, Larry could have reanimated as a walker within a matter of mere minutes. If he were to turn on them, the group would certainly not be able to handle that situation with any amount of certainty as they were completely unarmed, and Larry would be a freshly turned walker who is not only much bigger, but also stronger than any of them. So given all of these undeniable facts, Kenny (and myself) found it necessary to make sure Larry didn't come back and kill everyone. It made no sense to risk everything over a ridiculous long shot. And it's not even as if Kenny wanted to do it, he just knew that it had to be done to ensure everyone's safety. That isn't psychotic, that isn't irrational.
Also, the debate over whether or not Larry took a breath after doing compressions opposed to turning into a walker is completely irrelevant to whether or not Kenny's decision making was rational or not. Even if that was Larry taking an actual breath, that doesn't change the fact that bringing him back was unlikely to happen in the first place, and it doesn't change the fact that there were a ton of risks surrounding trying to bring him back.
I find it very ironic that you're the same guy who has straight up said that you would kill/abandon a newborn baby if it meant saving yourself or your other group members... and yet you're acting like "finishing off" a dead man is some sort heinous, psychotic sort of thing to do. What's up with the contradicting logic there?
Maybe peace and happiness in this forum would thrive if the discussers wouldn’t lump together an unspecific number of supporters of a certain video game character and also try to leave out the word psychotic (or maybe substitute it with special or oddly amusing) if you refer to them. Seriously, nobody is psychotic for making a certain decision in this game. You can use it to describe Kenny without hesitation though.
Let me explain something to you. Killing is justifiable if put into a situation that calls for something so extreme, a measure of great desperation. That I do understand, but it seems a lot of people fail to remember the subsequent actions, or a lack there of, that Kenny took. Lee can be held up at gunpoint in front of Kenny, he wasn't doing anything other than nodding and looking scarred shitless. This ties into his violent repercussions he took to kill off a man who, although a potential threat, showed literally no signs of reanimation. He squashed in a head without warning anyone, just imagine if he tripped and it crushed Lilly's spinal cord or God forbid hit Lee. It was incredibly stupid, and instead of trying to console or comfort Lilly over the span of the weeks transitioned around episode 2 and 3, he continued being an ass to her. This ties into what I'm saying in terms of Kenny being a douche and a terrible friend. Because literally going against him once to try to save the life of someone else who, given the circumstance, was very much innocent he believes to be a mutiny.
And here's the thing, what's bad is bad. No matter how you spin the circumstance, Kenny had no pre-existing knowledge of some flimsy statistic pulled from whatever to reference his own insecurities. He acted on a biases that Larry wasn't worth saving, he was "expendable" in his eyes. He even goes as far as boastfully responding to Lee, if asked "Happy?", he says "You're goddamn right I am."
People need to understand a chain of events and that killing Larry alone doesn't make me hate the action, it's everything after that shows his true colors.
I was more referring to if the murderer of AMC Rick's baby showed up in front of him, like how Jane showed up. It was more of a prediction of what Rick would do if the circumstances were the same. I know comic book Rick couldn't kill the murderer because it was during the prison war while trying to escape, I don't even think he could even tell which one shot her. It was at the spur of the moment and there were too much gunfire. I think AMC's Rick will slaughter the killer of Judith, during war(Against The Wolves i'm guessing) or after.
Ugh.
I don't see what you're talking about... I said "explanations." I never said Belan was psychotic, just that his explanation of the action Kenny took was veering that direction.
I third that, people need to read this ^
Which the meat locker situation absolutely was. Kenny certainly thought so, and there is a lot of reasoning to back him up, as described above. It's not even all that debatable, they were undeniably in a potential life or death situation. If they failed to resuscitate Larry in a small window of time, he would have reanimated and very well could have killed members of the group given the situation.
Going back to you being totally okay with killing a living, defenseless baby in order to save yourself, how can you actually say that is justifiable but then be completely against finishing off a dead man who has the group in the middle of a potential life or death situation? You're essentially saying that you're all for sacrificing someone else (a baby at that..) if it means getting yourself out of a bad situation... but then you're 100% against the idea of doing a lesser evil in the meat locker (because Larry is actually a very dangerous direct threat, where as the baby isn't). It doesn't make any sense. Even if you don't want to acknowledge the meat locker situation as a terribly dangerous situation, that doesn't change the fact that you're seemingly okay with killing totally innocent individuals if that means saving yourself from what you personally perceive to be a life or death situation. It's still contradictive.
This has nothing to do with whether or not his actions were rational in the meat locker. And what was he supposed to do anyway? The group had no leverage in that situation. No one did anything. Kenny wasn't the only who didn't take action at that moment.
How does it tie into it at all? They're two totally different things. It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the known facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational.
Of course he did it without warning anyone. Obviously if everyone else is against his plan of action, then what else is he to do? He was still trying to save their lives. Tripping and dropping a salt lick isn't going to seriously hurt anyone... let alone break someone's spinal cord. Seriously, how much do you actually think that thing weighs..? It doesn't weigh nearly enough to hurt someone to that extent simply by stumbling and rolling into onto them.
I'm not even going to debate that, as it has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
First of all, that's nothing more than complete assumption on your part. Second of all, it's not as if we're talking about some sort of largely unknown fact here. Third of all, even if Kenny had no understanding about the effects of a heart attack (we don't know this to be true at all), that doesn't change the fact that bringing Larry back was a long shot.
He only believes Larry isn't worth saving in the sense of the context of the situation. Kenny didn't think there was any reasonable way that they could save him, and wanted to save the group from a potential life or death situation.
How is that boastful at all? All that shows is that he was content with his decision making.
So why are you even debating the issue then? I've really only been debating the meat locker situation, as you originally made it clear that you thought he was stupid/psychotic for what he did there.
I'll also add that I'm not even necessarily against you trying to save Larry. I'm only asking you to recognize the thought process of not only Kenny, but also the people who agreed with his actions in the meat locker.
Of course he did, that's why he killed Larry. He thought so, which means nothing.
That's a laughably bad argument. Just admit when Kenny does something shitty man, It wasn't ok that he refused to try and hit a guy four feet away with his back completely turned away in an attempt to save him as to have a greater chance to rescue your family. Just moments before, he was able to kill an unconscious man, so why not now? (rhetorical question)
Your arguments are getting worse. How heavy? Heavy enough to smash someone's head in just by dropping it, so it stands to reason it'd be more than heavy to fracture a spinal cord. What?
Of course you're not going to debate that. It was wrong of him, you know it yet you've run out of excuses for his general lack of compassion. Would you like to try that one again?
Long enough that he exhaled a breath after four simple chest compressions. I know what you're going to say as well but save it. He wasn't twitching, moaning, or showed any pale discoloration. He was alive and it's pretty clear.
The pale skin is a crucial argument. How are you not getting this? Have you seen any walker throughout any episode of the game that didn't have some skin discoloration? Any at all? (again, rhetorical)
It ties in with it, yes it does.
Fact: A man killed a person in front of the persons daughter and a little girl, he never made amends with the daughter and went so far as to nag and argue with her. He stayed hidden while another group member lie helpless to a degraded cannibal and yet continued bickering with him and telling him "I saved the group."
You can add as many variable as you like, but it still isn't right. In fact, I'd say it's pretty fucking fucked up.
Anyone else find the Title of "psycho" funny? WE NEED MEME STAT.
Sorry, meant to get back to you quicker, but got a little distracted.
Like I said, he thought so with good reason. I've already described this in detail. Either debate my points or don't bother telling me I'm wrong. If it supposedly means nothing, then please explain why that is. You're not really bringing anything to the table.
Oh, you're talking about when they were hiding in the stall when attempting to sneak up on Danny?? My bad on that, definitely wasn't on the same page, as this detail is completely determinant and not one that I have actually ever had happen. This is a totally different issue anyway, and has nothing to do with his actions in the meat locker. You can argue that it would have been smarter to not be vengeful against Lee in that moment so as to have a greater chance at saving his family, but that is a completely separate argument to have, and I'm not going to go into it as it's irrelevant.
Are you kidding me? That's like saying dropping a hammer on someone's head should be a devastating injury just because when you hit someone in the head with a hammer as hard as you can, you can potentially kill them, at the very worst severely injure them. But yeah man, my arguments are the ones going downhill here..
Seriously, how much do you think a salt lick weighs? From a quick search online, most apparently weigh up to 50lbs. We're not talking about an incredibly heavy object here. Larry's skull didn't break just from the sheer weight of the salt lick... Kenny brought the thing down with all his strength. Could Kenny potentially have hurt someone a little if he stumbled with the thing? Yes. Could he have killed them or given them sort of devastating injury? No. Rolling a 50lb weight onto someone's back because of stumbling isn't going to break their spinal cord.
I carry around multiple cases of 40lb, solid boxes in my arms all at once while at work. It's a wonder I haven't killed anyone yet.. that's some pretty dangerous shit that I'm walking around with...
No thanks. Can discussions on here not stay a straight course? I'm not gong to debate about Kenny being a little insensitive to Lilly, as that's not what we're talking about.
... like I said before, Larry responding to chest compressions doesn't change the fact that reviving Larry was a long shot. Just because he happened to debatably beat the odds and respond to the compressions does not mean the situation was not a long shot.
Lets say you have a jar of 50 red jellybeans and buried within are 5 blue jellybeans. I insist that blindly pulling a blue jellybean out of that jar is a long shot, but you decide to try anyway. In doing so, you somehow manage to actually succeed in pulling out a blue jelly bean. You then go on to claim that pulling a blue jellybean out the jar wasn't a long shot, just because you happened to beat the odds. That's your logic here...
Also, why did you ignore like 90% of the part of my post you were responding to there? Should I just assume you're in agreement?
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to you last time, as you did nothing to refute what I said:
It doesn't matter if Larry didn't show signs of reanimation. The scene was intentionally meant to be ambiguous. And regardless, the group has only had one individual reanimate on them at this point, and no one present in the meat locker was observing him before reanimation. So how could they possibly look for signs of reanimation without even knowing what these signs would look like? All Kenny was doing was going off of the know facts. If you die, you come back as a walker, no matter what. From Kenny's one exposure to reanimation at this point, he knows a dead individual can come back in a matter of mere minutes. So given those known facts, he acted accordingly, as did I. The game debatably failing to make Larry look pale enough to be a walker isn't a very strong argument for saying that Kenny's actions were irrational.
Not going to argue over this. I love how conversations constantly get warped. Not sure if you remember, but all I have really been debating with you is the meat locker situation. That's all I brought up from the very start. Like I said earlier in this comment, Kenny being insensitive to Lilly has nothing to do with Kenny's actions in the meat locker being psychotic or irrational (which is again all that I was questioning).
In all fairness, almost everyone we've seen turn has suffered some kind of extreme or quick blood loss, which can explain the skin discoloration
David/Travis: leg chopped off
Mark: legs chopped off
Brie: Disemboweled
Natasha: Shot through the chest/heart
Nick: Bitten on the neck/jugular
Brenda: Bitten on the neck/jugular
Larry is the only individual who has died in such a way that doesn't involve blood loss
Bodies typically become pale due to blood flow decrease causing abnormal skin pigmentation and discoloration.
Larry having his normal skin tone = blood flowing regularly = heart still pumping blood. (That's the gist anyway, I'm a little tired right now)
I like Lily, even though she killed Carley and stole the RV. I can forgive her for that, but I really wanted to go with her instead of staying in that clusterfuck of a group.
At this point I'm not certain if AMC is going to kill her at all. They had plenty of opportunities to get her killed, but they decided to keep her alive.
Just stop it Robert, you're making too much sense.
We did but she stole the RV and left us for dead.
Oh fuck, we need to get in contact some other way. Typing out an entire novel every post is not too fun.
I mean, look at all that. Oh my god, I don't even rightly know how to start cause I feel we're just going to move in circles. Please, for my sake from now on give me the short version cause I'm literally overwhelmed. That's why I skim over some of your points sometimes cause there's just too much to be addressed for practical purposes.
Other than that, you know what I'm going to say as I know what you're going to say so I guess I'm cashing my chips in for now, if for no other reason than I was at work all night thinking of how I was going to go about doing this with you again and I can't, I just can't. It's too much, and I'm real tired now.