While I agree that it was Luke's fault for accepting the offer and shirking off his duties, Jane did cause the events to happen by making the offer to Luke in the first place. For someone who is meant to be an experienced and pragmatic survivalist, she inexplicably decides to ask a random guy, who's job is to watch out for walkers in the distance, to stop what he is doing and have sex with her and risk the lives of his friends because of the distraction. Not only does this action goes against the ideals of survival, it is completely idiotic and makes no sense for someone like Jane to do this.
And the most infuriating part is, Luke is called out on it by his group for allowing himself to be distracted by the offer, but Jane is never called out on making the offer in the first place when there's no logical reason to do so in their current situation.
Had Jane not made the offer to Luke, chances are Luke would have continued his duties, not get distracted, and warn his group from incoming walkers just as he was supposed to do.
Copy/paste.
Ok really, I love both Jane and Luke but I can't understand how people keep thinking this is without a doubt Jane's fault. Fi… morerst off, we don't know exactly what Luke and Jane said to each other as it was never explicitly stated what they said to each other in that observation deck. In addition, Luke clearly knew what his job was. In the scene before everyone split up to do their jobs, Jane walked away immediately, saying, "I'll check the building by the river" and is not seen again the rest of that scene. And Jane left before Luke ever announced his duty to check the perimeter for walkers (a duty which he assigned to himself!) to everyone, minus possibly Jane. The rest of the group had guns; when Jane and Luke were together, Jane could've assumed some of the rest of the group was on duty if Luke never mentioned what his specific job was to Jane. If it was anyone's fault that the group was caught off guard by walkers that we can… [view original content]
While I agree that it was Luke's fault for accepting the offer and shirking off his duties, Jane did cause the events to happen by making th… moree offer to Luke in the first place. For someone who is meant to be an experienced and pragmatic survivalist, she inexplicably decides to ask a random guy, who's job is to watch out for walkers in the distance, to stop what he is doing and have sex with her and risk the lives of his friends because of the distraction. Not only does this action goes against the ideals of survival, it is completely idiotic and makes no sense for someone like Jane to do this.
And the most infuriating part is, Luke is called out on it by his group for allowing himself to be distracted by the offer, but Jane is never called out on making the offer in the first place when there's no logical reason to do so in their current situation.
Had Jane not made the offer to Luke, chances are Luke would have continued his duties, not… [view original content]
Ahh, okay. I forgot, so i see why people treat her like some foul seductress. I still don't think making an offer of closeness out of loneliness makes her a horrible person. He could have easily said no. Theyre both victims of exceedingly bad timing.
I agree that Jane did not intentionally seduce Luke for the purpose of distracting him and getting his friends eaten by walkers sneaking up on them.
But I can't really understand why she made the offer in the first place at the worst possible time, since she never explains to anyone why she wanted to offer Luke some 'fun time' during the middle of his work where he's meant to be watch out for incoming danger.
Both aren't really victims of bad timing, not when they're fully aware that Luke has an important job to do and distracting him from his job meant that the walkers in the area were able to sneak up on the group.
Ahh, okay. I forgot, so i see why people treat her like some foul seductress. I still don't think making an offer of closeness out of loneliness makes her a horrible person. He could have easily said no. Theyre both victims of exceedingly bad timing.
Yeah you're right; they're both at fault. True, Jane was not being pragmatic. She should have realized that since Rebecca's water just broke, the baby would be coming very soon, and everyone should be on the alert. Again, I'm mostly annoyed some people will blame it solely on Jane while saying Luke didn't do anything wrong and he was just seduced etc. when they have no proof of that; that was mostly the point of my argument before.
they're fully aware that Luke has an important job to do and distracting him from his job meant that the walkers in the area were able to sneak up on the group
As I said before, we don't know if Jane actually knew that Luke was on guard duty. Bonnie/Mike also had a gun, Rebecca had a gun, Clem had a gun, and Kenny had his crowbar. Jane left before hearing what duties were assigned to anyone, before she knew only one person was on guard duty. For all Jane knew, everyone except for Luke could've been on guard duty. So she might not have known that Luke was in the "middle of his work where he's meant to be watching out for incoming danger," as you say, unless he explicitly told her.
It still doesn't excuse what they did though.
But I can't really understand why she made the offer in the first place at the worst possible time, since she never explains to anyone why she wanted to offer Luke some 'fun time' during the middle of his work where he's meant to be watch out for incoming danger.
The reason she wanted to offer Luke some "fun time" as you say lol is not for some random sex. Imo she was upset after the Sarah experience as it reminded Jane of Jaime, and she was upset after she had robbed Arvo as well, that she had been reduced to robbing a kid to protect this new group she wasn't even sure she wanted to be a part of. She was visibly upset when Clem left her, and Clem met up with Luke. Hence I think Luke found Jane upset, or on the brink of being upset. Mentally Luke wasn't doing too great either, as his best friend could determinately just have died, and Luke was incredibly unhappy with himself with how he had been the first one on the trailer's roof when with Sarah in that trailer. Hence they were both in a vulnerable place and wanted human comfort.
...And especially when it comes to sex, sometimes people aren't incredibly pragmatic.
I agree that Jane did not intentionally seduce Luke for the purpose of distracting him and getting his friends eaten by walkers sneaking up … moreon them.
But I can't really understand why she made the offer in the first place at the worst possible time, since she never explains to anyone why she wanted to offer Luke some 'fun time' during the middle of his work where he's meant to be watch out for incoming danger.
Both aren't really victims of bad timing, not when they're fully aware that Luke has an important job to do and distracting him from his job meant that the walkers in the area were able to sneak up on the group.
Human comfort is nice and all, but there is a time and a place. The two just so happened to make the wrong call in both timing and places, when they could have just got 'busy' at another time instead.
Nevertheless, I didn't really care much for the scene between the two. It just came out of nowhere, had no believable build up or foreshadowing to the event, and was used to fuel the highly unbalanced Kenny vs Luke conflict later on.
Yeah you're right; they're both at fault. True, Jane was not being pragmatic. She should have realized that since Rebecca's water just broke… more, the baby would be coming very soon, and everyone should be on the alert. Again, I'm mostly annoyed some people will blame it solely on Jane while saying Luke didn't do anything wrong and he was just seduced etc. when they have no proof of that; that was mostly the point of my argument before.
they're fully aware that Luke has an important job to do and distracting him from his job meant that the walkers in the area were able to sneak up on the group
As I said before, we don't know if Jane actually knew that Luke was on guard duty. Bonnie/Mike also had a gun, Rebecca had a gun, Clem had a gun, and Kenny had his crowbar. Jane left before hearing what duties were assigned to anyone, before she knew only one person was on guard duty. For all Jane knew, everyone except for Luke could've been on… [view original content]
You know, I'm getting real tired of these Kenny vs. Jane things. Look, either way, For that whole Mess, Kenny was to Blame, and Jane was to … moreBlame, Neither one of them did more than the other, It just happened. Jane and Kenny are both Great people in their own rights, They Both have a Good story, they Both Fight for what they Believe is right, they both Do what they think the smart thing is, (Even though what Jane does is smarter.), and They both Care so much about Clementine. and I've been hearing Shit from a certain someone on the Forum that Jane never said that Jamie wanted to die, and I've been hearing shit from Another certain somebody that Kenny didn't care or remember anything that happened with Lee.
EH HEM.
I have a Few Images straight from the TWD Wikia that might make you rethink those things.
Because it was the right thing to do. Jesus.
I'm not going to kill someone to save someone's life that started a fight in the first place. I don't need that on my soul.
I agree they have both done horrible things, but I disagree they can never get their humanity back. Kenny as well; I may not like him at all… more but that doesn't mean he can't become a better person. When it comes to Jane, you're right; she has helped a lot. She helps Rebecca and Clem through the herd, she helps bring Luke and determinately Sarah back, she shows Clem skills she has indeed never seen before--like checking "fresh" walkers rather than old ones and searching them and using a nail file in different ways such as picking a lock and making a fire, she opens up the observation deck gift shop and finds a safe place for Rebecca to have the baby and for everyone to spend the night, she stabbed that Russian dude Vitali ending the gunfight, she broke up an off-screen argument between Kenny and Mike, she got Clem out of the river, she even looked after AJ for a bit in the house.
In getting her humanity back, Jane proves she can get better. I… [view original content]
With Kenny I felt had a little more leeway to at least disagree with him and side with others because I didn't like him. But with Jane.... it's like nothing thwarts her, she just keeps coming back for more.
Either way, at least with Jane you have a clear option to dislike her, there's zero to barely any dialogue options that can show a clear dislike towards Kenny.
With Kenny I felt had a little more leeway to at least disagree with him and side with others because I didn't like him. But with Jane.... it's like nothing thwarts her, she just keeps coming back for more.
Clem shooting Kenny wasn't murder; it was self-defense on behalf of another: Jane. (Look it up.) Alternately if Jane was the one with the knife about to plunge into Kenny's chest, then Clem shooting Jane would be self-defense on behalf of Kenny.
Are you the Aron Dracula on Youtube that has been having a fight with me about whether Jane left Jamie to die because she saw her as dead we… moreight or not? Dude, You don't just call girls a Bitch, Fictional or not, that's rude and Unacceptable. I bet you've made mistakes in your life, I bet you hurt someone, So what If I just walked up to you and said all these bad things about you, and then went to go Be the Lap dog of a Stupid Redneck with a Mustache? Wouldn't feel to good if the roles were reversed, Now would it?
I saved her I mean kenny was being a dick to Clementine when you tell him reasonable things like how would you know if Wellington did exsist I mean you can hear a lot going around in an apocalypse some could be true some Couldnt plus you had a child with you and Howes was just a short distance so they could have gone and gotten food THEN head up to Wellington but no one wants to hear wat a little girl says
Plus didn't jane say to clem whatever happens stay out of it? I mean to most people it's like crap she did do something bad to AJ but even I knew it was to test Kenny to see how he'd react I mean Kenny could have camly asked what had appened before he attacked Jane he just went by how she acted towords him and he didn't give her a chance and she didn't do anything bad to him at all I mean he was a dick to Lee in the 1st season just cause Lee didn't help duck and then you try and be on his good side and even then he's still a dick
People will get mad when you don't agree with them when you have different opinions I mean he even threatens to hit Clementine when she said she wished Lee hadnt looked for her and I'll tell you even I wished that because clem blames herself everyday for people dying and she's just a little kid so when you give a child a big disission to make its ganna be hard would you want someone who was mean to you got pissed at you when you tried to help out their girlfriend and treat you like you're nothing?
Or would you be with someone who would help you and teach you new things? Jane was like another Lee to me Kenny didn't teach Clementine anything he just got pissed at her for trying to help out and keep someone alive
That's why I picked Jane because Kenny was worthless he treated you like crap after you tried to help Sarita even if you had to shoot Lee and you tell him that he still acted like a dick to you telling you "he doesn't need to hear this shit" you can't do that to a child even if it is a game
Kenny wasn't worth it to me even if I didn't help sarita he still would have treated clem like crap
But Jane she teaches you she came back for you she showed you how Kenny would act if one mistake was made (do you really think a baby would make it in a real apocalypse?) I'll still choose Jane no matter what jane is another Lee to me
We're talking about Clementine here, not Jane. Jane killing Kenny is murder. Kenny killing Jane is murder. But Clementine, a little girl who was trying to stop one adult from killing another adult, and who did not know for sure at that moment that any situation had been forced, did not commit murder; it was defense of another.
Clem shooting Kenny wasn't murder; it was self-defense on behalf of another: Jane.
Even when she forced the situation upon her? She dug herself into that hole, really.
I didn't save her. Not because I wanted to stay out of it, no, I was actively trying to stop the fight. But when it came down to it, I couldn't bring myself to shoot Kenny. I just couldn't. So I let her die. Do I regret it? No, I never really liked Jane and what she did made me hate her even more.
I was saying if it was really Clementine issuing self-defense Jane even though Jane deliberately put herself in harm's way, and even asked Clementine not to intervene.
Generally speaking, Clementine DID commit murder. She still killed a human being, even if it was "in defense for another" as you say.
We're talking about Clementine here, not Jane. Jane killing Kenny is murder. Kenny killing Jane is murder. But Clementine, a little girl who… more was trying to stop one adult from killing another adult, and who did not know for sure at that moment that any situation had been forced, did not commit murder; it was defense of another.
Yup! I wonder what other characters make their own decisions.
If you wanted to see, here's one playthrough where Clem is silent, and where they let the timer run out for all decisions:
However in this particular playthrough, when the timer runs out, Clem doesn't save Sarah in Sarah's first optional death scene in the trailer park. Thus, this playthrough doesn't show Jane trying to save Sarah from her second death, since Sarah wasn't saved from her first death to begin with. Also, here is the part where Jane doesn't take Arvo's meds:
though she's not particularly nice to Clem about it afterwards, saying, "That's relief to Rebecca's suffering walking out the door. That's on you." But at least she let Arvo keep his meds.
Jane is no Lee. Jane never cared for her own sister, she left her to die while Lee tried his best to find his family and put his brother out of his misery. Lee never abandoned Clem and Jane left Clem twice. If you let Nick's walker kill you, you'll see that Jane just leaves and let you get eaten. Jane even teached you to leave your own friends behind, for example Sarah, she didn't even try to help, she never wanted to learn from her mistakes. Jane even never cared for baby as she made an offer with Luke that indirectly caused Sarah to die. Jane is 100% no Lee.
I saved her I mean kenny was being a dick to Clementine when you tell him reasonable things like how would you know if Wellington did exsist… more I mean you can hear a lot going around in an apocalypse some could be true some Couldnt plus you had a child with you and Howes was just a short distance so they could have gone and gotten food THEN head up to Wellington but no one wants to hear wat a little girl says
Plus didn't jane say to clem whatever happens stay out of it? I mean to most people it's like crap she did do something bad to AJ but even I knew it was to test Kenny to see how he'd react I mean Kenny could have camly asked what had appened before he attacked Jane he just went by how she acted towords him and he didn't give her a chance and she didn't do anything bad to him at all I mean he was a dick to Lee in the 1st season just cause Lee didn't help duck and then you try and be on his good side and even then he's still a dick
Peo… [view original content]
Yup! I wonder what other characters make their own decisions.
If you wanted to see, here's one playthrough where Clem is silent, and wher… moree they let the timer run out for all decisions:
However in this particular playthrough, when the timer runs out, Clem doesn't save Sarah in Sarah's first optional death scene in the trailer park. Thus, this playthrough doesn't show Jane trying to save Sarah from her second death, since Sarah wasn't saved from her first death to begin with. Also, here is the part where Jane doesn't take Arvo's meds:
though she's not particularly nice to Clem about it afterwards, saying, "That's relief to Rebecca's suffering walking out the door. That's on you." But at least she let Arvo keep his meds.
As far as the Arvo thing goes, if you let the timer run out, Jane gets mad and is all "blah blah blah... people have to suffer because you couldn't make a decision" or something like that. I wouldn't write that one down as a good deed.
In addition to Jane trying to save Sarah on her own if the timer runs out, I think it's cool to note that if you let the timer run out, Jane… more will let Arvo keep his meds, and if you let the timer run out, Jane will let the family at Howe's in. The fact that she would make those decisions on her own shows she can grow as a character, and not be so cold and "selfish" as some think.
Jane never cared for her own sister? So I guess she showed that by keeping her alive, dragging her through multiple states, whenever she didn't bother to move Jane would even carry her if she had to? Also, Jaime's death isn't actually confirmed, considering Jane doesn't look back or says she hears any screams, and it seemed like Jane didn't have much choice but to let her die which is what she wanted since the beginning and that action may have prompted Jaime to actually try to survive, meaning she could be alive but may not have found Jane. When was the second time Jane left Clementine? As for the first time, why should she stay? There was no reason she had to stay, the group owed her more than she owed the group after all. Since when does Nick's Walker kill you? That's new for me. If you're talking about the Walker after going through the fence determinantly after killing zombified Nick, then why would Jane stand around to watch Clementine being continuously devoured? Jane knows that once someone is bitten in a vital place, they can't be saved. So she has no reason whatsoever to stick around just to watch Clementine get eaten or turn. Jane doesn't teach Clementine how to leave friends behind, that's an option you can make your Clementine do, Jane just tells Clementine her perspective on survival, that it's easier to survive alone, something other characters like Christa had similar ideas on. Clementine is the one who makes the choice between saving Sarah or not the first time, if you let the timer run out or choose not to save Sarah, then she gets killed, if you choose to save Sarah, Jane rescues everyone and risks her own life, heck she waits until Clementine and determinantly Sarah to get moving. The second time you can attempt to save Sarah, the only way Jane doesn't save Sarah is if you don't ask her to, if you let the timer run out or ask Jane to save Sarah, she does it, risking her life again for Sarah. She tried to help and she did help. She may not want to learn from her mistakes but it's evident she does. Letting the family come in on her own, letting Arvo keep the medicine on her own and attempting to save Sarah again on her own, of course only if you let her. Jane did care about AJ otherwise he wouldn't be alive. Jane is the reason Rebecca had a safe place to give birth to AJ, Jane made the offer but Luke took it knowing he had a responsibility and I fail to see how Jane's offer caused Sarah's death.
Jane is no Lee. Jane never cared for her own sister, she left her to die while Lee tried his best to find his family and put his brother out… more of his misery. Lee never abandoned Clem and Jane left Clem twice. If you let Nick's walker kill you, you'll see that Jane just leaves and let you get eaten. Jane even teached you to leave your own friends behind, for example Sarah, she didn't even try to help, she never wanted to learn from her mistakes. Jane even never cared for baby as she made an offer with Luke that indirectly caused Sarah to die. Jane is 100% no Lee.
Lol I know she says that; I took that into account in a different comment on this thread. And I still count it as a good deed. She let Arvo keep his meds, and no dialogue she says changes that action. What's that saying? "Actions speak louder than words"?
As far as the Arvo thing goes, if you let the timer run out, Jane gets mad and is all "blah blah blah... people have to suffer because you couldn't make a decision" or something like that. I wouldn't write that one down as a good deed.
I meant the walker in green clothes at the trailer, he was the one who killed Nick if saved. Yes, I know people can't be saved if they get bitten, but letting them suffer is a big sin. Clem would have become a walker if she was killed by Nick's walker. And I assume that Sarah is now a walker, and I hate that.
Jane never cared for her own sister? So I guess she showed that by keeping her alive, dragging her through multiple states, whenever she did… moren't bother to move Jane would even carry her if she had to? Also, Jaime's death isn't actually confirmed, considering Jane doesn't look back or says she hears any screams, and it seemed like Jane didn't have much choice but to let her die which is what she wanted since the beginning and that action may have prompted Jaime to actually try to survive, meaning she could be alive but may not have found Jane. When was the second time Jane left Clementine? As for the first time, why should she stay? There was no reason she had to stay, the group owed her more than she owed the group after all. Since when does Nick's Walker kill you? That's new for me. If you're talking about the Walker after going through the fence determinantly after killing zombified Nick, then why would Jane stand around to watch Clementine … [view original content]
Who said Jane was letting Clem suffer? She could've been moving so fast to put Clem out of her misery. It's just a big assumption she's running away and leaving Clem for dead. You don't know where Jane goes, and you have no idea of knowing where she goes, because the scene only lasts like 3 seconds.
I meant the walker in green clothes at the trailer, he was the one who killed Nick if saved. Yes, I know people can't be saved if they get b… moreitten, but letting them suffer is a big sin. Clem would have become a walker if she was killed by Nick's walker. And I assume that Sarah is now a walker, and I hate that.
If you ask people who shot Kenny (their very first play through), who then found out what Jane did, and who then rewound to be with Kenny, I think they'll say they never "murdered" Kenny.
And now some definitions. "Murder" is a type of "killing," but not all "killings" are "murder." Murder is an unlawful killing of a human being with malice afterthought. E.g. you could kill Lee by shooting him, but that wasn't "murder" since there was no malice there. You could put Duck out of his misery but that's not "murder" since there was no malice there. Shooting Kenny was not "murder" (unless the player absolutely positively wanted Kenny dead, and malice was their intent when shooting him.) In addition, Defense of others is a real thing, fyi.
I was saying if it was really Clementine issuing self-defense Jane even though Jane deliberately put herself in harm's way, and even asked C… morelementine not to intervene.
Generally speaking, Clementine DID commit murder. She still killed a human being, even if it was "in defense for another" as you say.
Wait, so when Kenny makes bad mistakes it's because he's bad, and when Jane makes bad mistakes it's bad writting for the sake of a plotline's climax? What type of convenient cop out excuses is that?
So a plan that sounds bad and might lead to death(even though the result is the complete opposite) warrants Jane to kill Kenny but killing your adopted baby(even though that didn't happen) doesn't warrant Kenny to kill Jane?
You say this in a way as if Kenny knew exactly what she was doing. That he killed her because she lied and not because he thought she wasn't… more lying.
No, that's how you read it. When I say, "The worst thing she ever did is tell that lie," I encompass everything that goes with that "lie"--which was baiting Kenny and the fight, basically.
On the contrary, as Kenny himself said, if at any point Jane revealed her lie and said that Alvin was fine Kenny would've stopped.
Ok, let me ask you something. Why did Jane not say anything about AJ? What's your reasoning for that? Why did she let Kenny kill her without saying anything, leaving Kenny alone with Clem, when Jane so clearly wanted Clem to not be with Kenny? The one thing people who don't like Jane can say is she's "selfish" right? So why is she not thinking of herself here? Why does she not take some action to keep herself alive?
She was written badly, for a poorly writte… [view original content]
Kenny's character is developed extremely well and is developed even more so than this season's protagonist--Clementine. Jane's character however is not and there is still a lot of mystery surrounding her. I maintain that it didn't make sense for her to do what she did, given what we know about her, and especially given the fact that she was stabbed once superficially before Kenny stabbed her all the way through like I mentioned before. (I also notice you didn't answer whyJane didn't say anything about AJ when clearly the selfish, survivor thing to do would be for her to say something and save her own skin.) Kenny's actions were completely predictable however, and it made complete sense he would react in that way in that fight.
Please inform me where I ever said the murder of anyone was warranted or justified. I'm trying to explain what Jane was doing, not what I personally would have done. Jane was an idiot for instigating Kenny and trying to eventually kill him, and she should've solved the problem through non violent means. To answer your question, no, neither Jane trying to kill Kenny nor Kenny trying to kill Jane was warranted.
And this
a plan that sounds bad and might lead to death(even though the result is the complete opposite)
which--I assume you mean, is Kenny's plan to go to Wellington but didn't end up dying during, miraculously--was a result of the writers' desire to create an ending for Kenny that ended a-ok. If it had been more realistic, e.g. if it had taken more time for them to find it, or if they ended up starving when they had found Wellington, I would've been better with it, as all of this would lend to more realism. But what we got instead was Kenny and them being completely fine, essentially suggesting that Jane was an idiot for even suggesting not looking for Wellington, or even suggesting that Kenny was wrong, when in reality Jane was right, and it should've been a lot more dangerous of a trip to find Wellington.
Wait, so when Kenny makes bad mistakes it's because he's bad, and when Jane makes bad mistakes it's bad writting for the sake of a plotline'… mores climax? What type of convenient cop out excuses is that?
So a plan that sounds bad and might lead to death(even though the result is the complete opposite) warrants Jane to kill Kenny but killing your adopted baby(even though that didn't happen) doesn't warrant Kenny to kill Jane?
Lol I know she says that; I took that into account in a different comment on this thread. And I still count it as a good deed. She let Arvo … morekeep his meds, and no dialogue she says changes that action. What's that saying? "Actions speak louder than words"?
Comments
While I agree that it was Luke's fault for accepting the offer and shirking off his duties, Jane did cause the events to happen by making the offer to Luke in the first place. For someone who is meant to be an experienced and pragmatic survivalist, she inexplicably decides to ask a random guy, who's job is to watch out for walkers in the distance, to stop what he is doing and have sex with her and risk the lives of his friends because of the distraction. Not only does this action goes against the ideals of survival, it is completely idiotic and makes no sense for someone like Jane to do this.
And the most infuriating part is, Luke is called out on it by his group for allowing himself to be distracted by the offer, but Jane is never called out on making the offer in the first place when there's no logical reason to do so in their current situation.
Had Jane not made the offer to Luke, chances are Luke would have continued his duties, not get distracted, and warn his group from incoming walkers just as he was supposed to do.
I'm not going to kill someone to save someone's life that started a fight in the first place. I don't need that on my soul.
Maybe he made the offer and she accepted. Do we specifically know otherwise?
Luke states to Kenny in their argument that "she made the offer, and I accepted".
Ahh, okay. I forgot, so i see why people treat her like some foul seductress. I still don't think making an offer of closeness out of loneliness makes her a horrible person. He could have easily said no. Theyre both victims of exceedingly bad timing.
I agree that Jane did not intentionally seduce Luke for the purpose of distracting him and getting his friends eaten by walkers sneaking up on them.
But I can't really understand why she made the offer in the first place at the worst possible time, since she never explains to anyone why she wanted to offer Luke some 'fun time' during the middle of his work where he's meant to be watch out for incoming danger.
Both aren't really victims of bad timing, not when they're fully aware that Luke has an important job to do and distracting him from his job meant that the walkers in the area were able to sneak up on the group.
Yeah you're right; they're both at fault. True, Jane was not being pragmatic. She should have realized that since Rebecca's water just broke, the baby would be coming very soon, and everyone should be on the alert. Again, I'm mostly annoyed some people will blame it solely on Jane while saying Luke didn't do anything wrong and he was just seduced etc. when they have no proof of that; that was mostly the point of my argument before.
As I said before, we don't know if Jane actually knew that Luke was on guard duty. Bonnie/Mike also had a gun, Rebecca had a gun, Clem had a gun, and Kenny had his crowbar. Jane left before hearing what duties were assigned to anyone, before she knew only one person was on guard duty. For all Jane knew, everyone except for Luke could've been on guard duty. So she might not have known that Luke was in the "middle of his work where he's meant to be watching out for incoming danger," as you say, unless he explicitly told her.
It still doesn't excuse what they did though.
The reason she wanted to offer Luke some "fun time" as you say lol is not for some random sex. Imo she was upset after the Sarah experience as it reminded Jane of Jaime, and she was upset after she had robbed Arvo as well, that she had been reduced to robbing a kid to protect this new group she wasn't even sure she wanted to be a part of. She was visibly upset when Clem left her, and Clem met up with Luke. Hence I think Luke found Jane upset, or on the brink of being upset. Mentally Luke wasn't doing too great either, as his best friend could determinately just have died, and Luke was incredibly unhappy with himself with how he had been the first one on the trailer's roof when with Sarah in that trailer. Hence they were both in a vulnerable place and wanted human comfort.
...And especially when it comes to sex, sometimes people aren't incredibly pragmatic.
Human comfort is nice and all, but there is a time and a place. The two just so happened to make the wrong call in both timing and places, when they could have just got 'busy' at another time instead.
Nevertheless, I didn't really care much for the scene between the two. It just came out of nowhere, had no believable build up or foreshadowing to the event, and was used to fuel the highly unbalanced Kenny vs Luke conflict later on.
For someone who tried to play neutral, this kind of ruined that.
Well i guess that's where your soul and mine diverge on their paths, you have to deal with your own concience and i with mine.
I do the exact opposite of anything Jane says or thinks xD
Wow I never knew characters made their own decisions, excuse me while I make a new save where I let the timer run out.
I saved her because just watching someome being stabbed to death and just turning my head away seemed awful. I cant even believe that was a choice.
It's been almost a year and people are still arguing about this?
With Kenny I felt had a little more leeway to at least disagree with him and side with others because I didn't like him. But with Jane.... it's like nothing thwarts her, she just keeps coming back for more.
She also said she wasn't letting Kenny anywhere near her despite the fact that she was the one antagonizing him.
to Kenny's credit, he was a decent survivor as well...he lasted just as long
So really in conclusion, characters don't give a crap how Clementine treats them, the plot just forces relationships upon her.
My Clementine's opinion on the whole Kenny/Jane quarrel
The plot forces relationships that are needed to drive the story forward...it's not Fable where every choice actually changes the story
Even when she forced the situation upon her? She dug herself into that hole, really.
Both Kenny and Jane are shitheads.
I went alone.
I saved her I mean kenny was being a dick to Clementine when you tell him reasonable things like how would you know if Wellington did exsist I mean you can hear a lot going around in an apocalypse some could be true some Couldnt plus you had a child with you and Howes was just a short distance so they could have gone and gotten food THEN head up to Wellington but no one wants to hear wat a little girl says
Plus didn't jane say to clem whatever happens stay out of it? I mean to most people it's like crap she did do something bad to AJ but even I knew it was to test Kenny to see how he'd react I mean Kenny could have camly asked what had appened before he attacked Jane he just went by how she acted towords him and he didn't give her a chance and she didn't do anything bad to him at all I mean he was a dick to Lee in the 1st season just cause Lee didn't help duck and then you try and be on his good side and even then he's still a dick
People will get mad when you don't agree with them when you have different opinions I mean he even threatens to hit Clementine when she said she wished Lee hadnt looked for her and I'll tell you even I wished that because clem blames herself everyday for people dying and she's just a little kid so when you give a child a big disission to make its ganna be hard would you want someone who was mean to you got pissed at you when you tried to help out their girlfriend and treat you like you're nothing?
Or would you be with someone who would help you and teach you new things? Jane was like another Lee to me Kenny didn't teach Clementine anything he just got pissed at her for trying to help out and keep someone alive
That's why I picked Jane because Kenny was worthless he treated you like crap after you tried to help Sarita even if you had to shoot Lee and you tell him that he still acted like a dick to you telling you "he doesn't need to hear this shit" you can't do that to a child even if it is a game
Kenny wasn't worth it to me even if I didn't help sarita he still would have treated clem like crap
But Jane she teaches you she came back for you she showed you how Kenny would act if one mistake was made (do you really think a baby would make it in a real apocalypse?) I'll still choose Jane no matter what jane is another Lee to me
We're talking about Clementine here, not Jane. Jane killing Kenny is murder. Kenny killing Jane is murder. But Clementine, a little girl who was trying to stop one adult from killing another adult, and who did not know for sure at that moment that any situation had been forced, did not commit murder; it was defense of another.
I didn't save her. Not because I wanted to stay out of it, no, I was actively trying to stop the fight. But when it came down to it, I couldn't bring myself to shoot Kenny. I just couldn't. So I let her die. Do I regret it? No, I never really liked Jane and what she did made me hate her even more.
I was saying if it was really Clementine issuing self-defense Jane even though Jane deliberately put herself in harm's way, and even asked Clementine not to intervene.
Generally speaking, Clementine DID commit murder. She still killed a human being, even if it was "in defense for another" as you say.
If you wanted to see, here's one playthrough where Clem is silent, and where they let the timer run out for all decisions:
However in this particular playthrough, when the timer runs out, Clem doesn't save Sarah in Sarah's first optional death scene in the trailer park.
Thus, this playthrough doesn't show Jane trying to save Sarah from her second death, since Sarah wasn't saved from her first death to begin with. Also, here is the part where Jane doesn't take Arvo's meds: 
though she's not particularly nice to Clem about it afterwards, saying, "That's relief to Rebecca's suffering walking out the door. That's on you." But at least she let Arvo keep his meds.
Jane is no Lee. Jane never cared for her own sister, she left her to die while Lee tried his best to find his family and put his brother out of his misery. Lee never abandoned Clem and Jane left Clem twice. If you let Nick's walker kill you, you'll see that Jane just leaves and let you get eaten. Jane even teached you to leave your own friends behind, for example Sarah, she didn't even try to help, she never wanted to learn from her mistakes. Jane even never cared for baby as she made an offer with Luke that indirectly caused Sarah to die. Jane is 100% no Lee.
Thanks!
As far as the Arvo thing goes, if you let the timer run out, Jane gets mad and is all "blah blah blah... people have to suffer because you couldn't make a decision" or something like that. I wouldn't write that one down as a good deed.
Jane never cared for her own sister? So I guess she showed that by keeping her alive, dragging her through multiple states, whenever she didn't bother to move Jane would even carry her if she had to? Also, Jaime's death isn't actually confirmed, considering Jane doesn't look back or says she hears any screams, and it seemed like Jane didn't have much choice but to let her die which is what she wanted since the beginning and that action may have prompted Jaime to actually try to survive, meaning she could be alive but may not have found Jane. When was the second time Jane left Clementine? As for the first time, why should she stay? There was no reason she had to stay, the group owed her more than she owed the group after all. Since when does Nick's Walker kill you? That's new for me. If you're talking about the Walker after going through the fence determinantly after killing zombified Nick, then why would Jane stand around to watch Clementine being continuously devoured? Jane knows that once someone is bitten in a vital place, they can't be saved. So she has no reason whatsoever to stick around just to watch Clementine get eaten or turn. Jane doesn't teach Clementine how to leave friends behind, that's an option you can make your Clementine do, Jane just tells Clementine her perspective on survival, that it's easier to survive alone, something other characters like Christa had similar ideas on. Clementine is the one who makes the choice between saving Sarah or not the first time, if you let the timer run out or choose not to save Sarah, then she gets killed, if you choose to save Sarah, Jane rescues everyone and risks her own life, heck she waits until Clementine and determinantly Sarah to get moving. The second time you can attempt to save Sarah, the only way Jane doesn't save Sarah is if you don't ask her to, if you let the timer run out or ask Jane to save Sarah, she does it, risking her life again for Sarah. She tried to help and she did help. She may not want to learn from her mistakes but it's evident she does. Letting the family come in on her own, letting Arvo keep the medicine on her own and attempting to save Sarah again on her own, of course only if you let her. Jane did care about AJ otherwise he wouldn't be alive. Jane is the reason Rebecca had a safe place to give birth to AJ, Jane made the offer but Luke took it knowing he had a responsibility and I fail to see how Jane's offer caused Sarah's death.
Hehehehehehehe
Lol I know she says that; I took that into account in a different comment on this thread. And I still count it as a good deed. She let Arvo keep his meds, and no dialogue she says changes that action. What's that saying? "Actions speak louder than words"?
I meant the walker in green clothes at the trailer, he was the one who killed Nick if saved. Yes, I know people can't be saved if they get bitten, but letting them suffer is a big sin. Clem would have become a walker if she was killed by Nick's walker. And I assume that Sarah is now a walker, and I hate that.
Who said Jane was letting Clem suffer? She could've been moving so fast to put Clem out of her misery. It's just a big assumption she's running away and leaving Clem for dead. You don't know where Jane goes, and you have no idea of knowing where she goes, because the scene only lasts like 3 seconds.
If you ask people who shot Kenny (their very first play through), who then found out what Jane did, and who then rewound to be with Kenny, I think they'll say they never "murdered" Kenny.
And now some definitions. "Murder" is a type of "killing," but not all "killings" are "murder." Murder is an unlawful killing of a human being with malice afterthought. E.g. you could kill Lee by shooting him, but that wasn't "murder" since there was no malice there. You could put Duck out of his misery but that's not "murder" since there was no malice there. Shooting Kenny was not "murder" (unless the player absolutely positively wanted Kenny dead, and malice was their intent when shooting him.) In addition, Defense of others is a real thing, fyi.
Wait, so when Kenny makes bad mistakes it's because he's bad, and when Jane makes bad mistakes it's bad writting for the sake of a plotline's climax? What type of convenient cop out excuses is that?
So a plan that sounds bad and might lead to death(even though the result is the complete opposite) warrants Jane to kill Kenny but killing your adopted baby(even though that didn't happen) doesn't warrant Kenny to kill Jane?
Kenny's character is developed extremely well and is developed even more so than this season's protagonist--Clementine. Jane's character however is not and there is still a lot of mystery surrounding her. I maintain that it didn't make sense for her to do what she did, given what we know about her, and especially given the fact that she was stabbed once superficially before Kenny stabbed her all the way through like I mentioned before. (I also notice you didn't answer whyJane didn't say anything about AJ when clearly the selfish, survivor thing to do would be for her to say something and save her own skin.) Kenny's actions were completely predictable however, and it made complete sense he would react in that way in that fight.
Please inform me where I ever said the murder of anyone was warranted or justified. I'm trying to explain what Jane was doing, not what I personally would have done. Jane was an idiot for instigating Kenny and trying to eventually kill him, and she should've solved the problem through non violent means. To answer your question, no, neither Jane trying to kill Kenny nor Kenny trying to kill Jane was warranted.
And this
which--I assume you mean, is Kenny's plan to go to Wellington but didn't end up dying during, miraculously--was a result of the writers' desire to create an ending for Kenny that ended a-ok. If it had been more realistic, e.g. if it had taken more time for them to find it, or if they ended up starving when they had found Wellington, I would've been better with it, as all of this would lend to more realism. But what we got instead was Kenny and them being completely fine, essentially suggesting that Jane was an idiot for even suggesting not looking for Wellington, or even suggesting that Kenny was wrong, when in reality Jane was right, and it should've been a lot more dangerous of a trip to find Wellington.
Oh... well. What's that saying? "To each his own."