Is that at all why I'm "bashing" Jane? Because I don't think it is. I can list many reasons why Kenny is flawed, and I still appreciate him as a character. I listed reasons that I do not appreciate Jane, and said that it is fine to like her so long as you recognize that she has made mistakes, to which you reply, "I know, but there are logic behind her so called mistakes". Therefore saying that you don't believe she made any real mistakes.
And who was the one quoting every single part of the other person's comment for the sole purpose of arguing with it/trying to justify it? Because it certainly was not myself. I attempted to be civil, and I am still going to attempt to be civil, even if people keep jumping all over me for it. I stated my opinion. I'm sorry that it's different from yours.
Maybe it's because when we try to give our opinions on Jane, other people antagonize us for not liking her, so we think it's fair game to br… moreing up why we like Kenny? I'm only ever trying to be civil, but when it is the same people over and over and over trying to debunk everything I say, it gets really old, really quickly.
Lol how are you always drawing these weird conclusions. First I'm trying to "antagonize you" and now I'm trying to "debunk" you?
The problem isn't your opinion on Jane, your problem is that you are bashing Jane in order to uphold Kenny, which is bound to lead to an argument. Therefore, you are not at all attempting to be civil.
My point exactly. My 'friends' hate me for talking about this game and other games, because they don't take inerest. You know what I think?
I think, they're not real friends.
Is that at all why I'm "bashing" Jane? Because I don't think it is. I can list many reasons why Kenny is flawed, and I still appreciate him as a character. I listed reasons that I do not appreciate Jane, and said that it is fine to like her so long as you recognize that she has made mistakes, to which you reply, "I know, but there are logic behind her so called mistakes". Therefore saying that you don't believe she made any real mistakes.
I said "mistakes" because the things you guys bring up as mistakes are silly to me. Again you are drawing weird conclusions. Did I state in that post "JANE HAS MADE NO MISTAKES WHATSOEVER"?
And who was the one quoting every single part of the other person's comment for the sole purpose of arguing with it/trying to justify it? Because it certainly was not myself. I attempted to be civil, and I am still going to attempt to be civil, even if people keep jumping all over me for it. I stated my opinion. I'm sorry that it's different from yours.
It's called a damn discussion. If you don't want anyone quoting you boo, well then don't post. You attempt to be civil, yet sub-refer to me and claim I am "antagonizing" you. Nobody is jumping you, stop trying to play the victim card.
Is that at all why I'm "bashing" Jane? Because I don't think it is. I can list many reasons why Kenny is flawed, and I still appreciate him … moreas a character. I listed reasons that I do not appreciate Jane, and said that it is fine to like her so long as you recognize that she has made mistakes, to which you reply, "I know, but there are logic behind her so called mistakes". Therefore saying that you don't believe she made any real mistakes.
And who was the one quoting every single part of the other person's comment for the sole purpose of arguing with it/trying to justify it? Because it certainly was not myself. I attempted to be civil, and I am still going to attempt to be civil, even if people keep jumping all over me for it. I stated my opinion. I'm sorry that it's different from yours.
From the start of this thread, i have been stating that I respect your opinions, no matter who you are or what they are. I have stated my opinion aswell, and if that's different to yours, I'm sorry
She's being civil to me. More respect than any real person has ever shown me.
That's only because you both have the same opinion. If you didn't, believe me, everyone wouldn't seem so "civil".
Did I say "you liking Kenny" was ever wrong? No, but what I am saying is that trying to play the "Jane vs Kenny" argument will lead to nothing good. It just comes up as problematic.
and believe me, it's not.
From the start of this thread, i have been stating that I respect your opinions, no matter who you are or what they are. I have stated my opinion aswell, and if that's different to yours, I'm sorry
Did I say "you liking Kenny" was ever wrong? No, but what I am saying is that trying to play the "Jane vs Kenny" argument will lead to nothing good. It just comes up as problematic.
And let me tell you something, once you start quoting something in the way that you did, it's no longer a discussion. You made it an argument. I'm not playing any card, much less the "victim card". Last time I checked, I hadn't wrote, "Oh mods, come quick, boo hoo. longlivelee hurt my feelings and I'm all butthurt now". Now, I am going to stop commenting, but feel free to quote this one too and say whatever you like. I could talk with you all day, but I have better things to do than get into petty arguments.
Is that at all why I'm "bashing" Jane? Because I don't think it is. I can list many reasons why Kenny is flawed, and I still appreciate him … moreas a character. I listed reasons that I do not appreciate Jane, and said that it is fine to like her so long as you recognize that she has made mistakes, to which you reply, "I know, but there are logic behind her so called mistakes". Therefore saying that you don't believe she made any real mistakes.
I said "mistakes" because the things you guys bring up as mistakes are silly to me. Again you are drawing weird conclusions. Did I state in that post "JANE HAS MADE NO MISTAKES WHATSOEVER"?
And who was the one quoting every single part of the other person's comment for the sole purpose of arguing with it/trying to justify it? Because it certainly was not myself. I attempted to be civil, and I am still going to attempt to be civil, even if people keep jumping all over me for it. I stated my opin… [view original content]
You said "so called" mistakes, after all.
And let me tell you something, once you start quoting something in the way that you did, it's n… moreo longer a discussion. You made it an argument. I'm not playing any card, much less the "victim card". Last time I checked, I hadn't wrote, "Oh mods, come quick, boo hoo. longlivelee hurt my feelings and I'm all butthurt now". Now, I am going to stop commenting, but feel free to quote this one too and say whatever you like. I could talk with you all day, but I have better things to do than get into petty arguments.
Well, to be fair, I don't like her at all. I don't mind whoever likes her but no. I don't hate her as much as Larry, Bonnie, Arvo or Stranger, but sometimes I wish she never appeared in the S2, along with Arvo. When introduced I thought that TT made Molly 2.0, she even shot that disgusting child abuser Troy in the dick. And she also saved Clem from walkers when Sarah ran away from herd. When episode 4 appeared I wanted to learn more about her to see what is her story, and so they made Molly's story with reversed sister role. Molly's sister was taken away, while Jane left her sister to die! And she tried to do the same for Sarah, she even refused to save her at the observation deck at first. She called her a liability even though she started to care about AJ during the finale who is a HUGE liability. Not to mention what she did to Arvo. Instead of waiting for him to leave and take the medicine, she stole his gun and threaten him at the gunpoint, and for what? For Rebecca, Luke and Kenny who are in mess even before she told that being the group is bad? And in the next episode she cared about Arvo? That is what you get for hiring so many writers to write the characters and a story, especially someone like Jane. I wanted her to stay gone since that scene with taking or keeping the nail file is perfect way to go unknown. No matter what choice you chose between leaving tommorow or not, she comes back to save the day and later it is even Luke's birthday???? The reason why I started hating her is because she accused Kenny for turning into Carver for beating up a idiotic crippled teenager who caused the shooting indirectly caused by Jane!!! If she wasn't running her mouth she would have been in Wellington with Kenny, Clem and AJ, maybe she could have convinced Edith to let everybody in, since she is manipulative, but hey... The plot!
To be honest, I like Jane despite what she's done. Just as I like Kenny after God knows everything he's done. In my opinion they both have redeeming qualities. Jane has the smarts and the wits that I just don't think Kenny has — or refuses to use. He seems to handle situations based on his emotions. Buuut this isn't about him, so I'll stop the comparison. But Jane on the other hand is more willing to listen to reason. She does her best to think logically, which I appreciate because I don't have to worry about being in danger. She also has a lot of skill and knowledge to offer Clementine that the young girl needs to survive. And, okay, yes, Jane didn't want to go back for Sarah and she left her sister to die. To me though her reasons are sound. There were walkers pounding at the door when Clementine was trying to convince Sarah to come. Jane had no idea if she could do that without someone getting bit or killed. If I were in that situation, I would've told Clementine to leave her too. Because like Jane said, Clem did not need Sarah to take her down with her. It wasn't worth it if both Clementine and Luke had already tried. Also, the issue with her sister, Jane mentioned that they were on a roof of some sort and that she couldn't force her sister to jump. And she she couldn't; she couldn't physically carry her or verbally convince her. So what was Jane supposed to do? Push her off? Stay and die with her? I mean, she could have but if Jaime didn't want to live that doesn't mean Jane didn't either. I'm sure Jane would've dragged her sister over if she could've, like she'd been doing before, though sadly it couldn't work that way. Moving onto Jane poking at Kenny's family. That was a low blow. No excuses for that, and there could've been other alternatives other than leaving AJ in the car and provoking Ken. She didn't need to go that far. Totally out of line. Clementine is old enough to chose who'd she'd rather follow. Jane or Kenny. Was Jane just afraid Clem wouldn't chose her? Maybe. Or maybe she just saw potential and her sister in the young girl and simply wanted a capable companion. Who knows. I've already talked enough. I'll shut up because no one is going to read this long ass reply. lol.
I definitely agree with everything you've said here. I really thought I was going to like her, and then all of that changed during Amid the Ruins. Again, I don't at all have a problem with people that like her, so long as they at least realize that she did the things that you listed, and don't try to say they were completely justifiable.
Well, to be fair, I don't like her at all. I don't mind whoever likes her but no. I don't hate her as much as Larry, Bonnie, Arvo or Strange… morer, but sometimes I wish she never appeared in the S2, along with Arvo. When introduced I thought that TT made Molly 2.0, she even shot that disgusting child abuser Troy in the dick. And she also saved Clem from walkers when Sarah ran away from herd. When episode 4 appeared I wanted to learn more about her to see what is her story, and so they made Molly's story with reversed sister role. Molly's sister was taken away, while Jane left her sister to die! And she tried to do the same for Sarah, she even refused to save her at the observation deck at first. She called her a liability even though she started to care about AJ during the finale who is a HUGE liability. Not to mention what she did to Arvo. Instead of waiting for him to leave and take the medicine, she stole his gun and threaten him at the gunpoi… [view original content]
People dislike her because of her feud with Kenny, not because she was a shitty lazily written character with no growth or distinguishable qualities outside of her rough slightly cold demeanor.
Honestly, I did see some potential in her and I'll defend her from people who for whatever reason think nutstain beardface is a more morally irreprehensible character than Jane. I stand on the virtue that neither is good enough to show or teach her shit about survival.
Is it because he shot Matthew? Because from my perspective, he's about as justified in doing that as Kenny was in killing Larry. He made the wrong assumption that Matthew was a clear and present threat to his friends, so he killed him before he could harm them. I sometimes have the feeling that some people hold this against him solely because he's Nick, and not someone else. I bet ten bucks if Luke or someone else shot Matthew instead, people would be much more forgiving.
Is it because he's not the best shot? Instead of writing him off because he can't shoot, find something he's actually proficient at and let him take care of business. There's characters in the other media that haven't been the best shots (Tyreese comes to mind), but they make up for it by being proficient in other areas of combat.
Is it because he nearly shot Clementine when they first met? Because that's about the only mistake you can really hold against him. That's probably the one instance where there's not that much in the way of justification other than that he didn't have any trigger discipline. But in all honesty, that's one fuck-up. Most characters have made a lot more mistakes than Nick has. Other people in the S2 group have made more mistakes in total than he has.
The most notable flaw that Nick has is that he's trigger-happy, and that's about it. And in all honesty? That's a pretty easy flaw to control; just don't let him handle the big guns. It's better than other flaws like having a short temper, which aren't as easily contained/controlled in comparison.
I suppose you could hold him being all mopey about losing his uncle against him as well, but practically every other character that has lost a family member in the game has reacted in about the same way as he did. In fact, Nick probably took that better than most characters would have. He didn't just give up and have to be dragged away when Pete got killed in front of him, he actually made sure he and Clementine were safe before he sat down and started to wallow in despair (if you went with him at the end of ATR). He has to be dragged away when they come across Pete's corpse, but in that case it's understandable since they aren't surrounded by anything at the moment.
Also, I'm still very much upset at her for treating Sarah like she was a liability. She can't help the way she is. She can't help that her f… moreather failed to teach her the skills necessary for survival because he wanted to protect her innocence. She can't help that she has anxiety attacks.
That's sad and everything, but when the apocalypse hits, whether it's unfair or not, it's survival of the fittest.
Jane told Clementine to leave her behind. Of course, I didn't. Then she told us it would be useless to try to save her a second time. I don't care if shooting the walkers would have drawn more close. They had the ammo, they could have shot the walkers close to Sarah when she was trapped. (Why couldn't you?)
If someone is obviously going to get you killed when your priority is to survive, hell yeah I'd be afraid if I shot walkers would come close, especially if the person you are going to save is going to do more damage than … [view original content]
the characters Sarah and Nick were liabilities
I don't see how Nick was a liability at all.
Is it because he shot Matthew? Becaus… moree from my perspective, he's about as justified in doing that as Kenny was in killing Larry. He made the wrong assumption that Matthew was a clear and present threat to his friends, so he killed him before he could harm them. I sometimes have the feeling that some people hold this against him solely because he's Nick, and not someone else. I bet ten bucks if Luke or someone else shot Matthew instead, people would be much more forgiving.
Is it because he's not the best shot? Instead of writing him off because he can't shoot, find something he's actually proficient at and let him take care of business. There's characters in the other media that haven't been the best shots (Tyreese comes to mind), but they make up for it by being proficient in other areas of combat.
Is it because he nearly shot Clementi… [view original content]
Because her character was introduced to clash with his. And by the time No Going Back swung around, his character became the central focal point for the remainder of the season, which of course meant every time Jane opened her mouth, it was out of concern for the threat Kenny posed. Constantly being reminded that he still exists, same for his character as well. Always going on and on about Jane, eventually their anemic dull personalities constantly clashing and feuding gave people the message that discussing one without the other is a hopeless endeavor. And don't get me wrong, it absolutely is.
What do you remember about Kenny in No Going Back? Most likely that he and Jane weren't friends. Same for her, their existence isn't complete without the conflict of the other. That's why 'till the end of time, anyone mentions either, the other will be mentioned as well.
I read your reply. And I must say, it's very long, but it's very well thought out and you presented many good points. You presented why it's perfectly okay to like a character despite their mistakes. I applaud you for that.
To be honest, I like Jane despite what she's done. Just as I like Kenny after God knows everything he's done. In my opinion they both have r… moreedeeming qualities. Jane has the smarts and the wits that I just don't think Kenny has — or refuses to use. He seems to handle situations based on his emotions. Buuut this isn't about him, so I'll stop the comparison. But Jane on the other hand is more willing to listen to reason. She does her best to think logically, which I appreciate because I don't have to worry about being in danger. She also has a lot of skill and knowledge to offer Clementine that the young girl needs to survive. And, okay, yes, Jane didn't want to go back for Sarah and she left her sister to die. To me though her reasons are sound. There were walkers pounding at the door when Clementine was trying to convince Sarah to come. Jane had no idea if she could do that without someone getting bit or killed. If I were in that situation, I … [view original content]
I could rely on Carver more than Jane. I feel like Jane lost too much for her to be reliable. I don't really like her, but we would survive together, but it'd be worse then the Christa-Clem relationship post-abortion
This is my personal opinion on Jane. If you disagree with me that is fine.
I never liked her. You can't force two people to be together, and expect a friendship to just happen, it just doesn't work that way. I didn't like her personality, where she was always trying to be the lone survivor. If you wanted to be the lone survivor, why stay in the group Jane. She complains about practically everyone in the group, she can leave whenever she wants, but she stays to complain..
I never trusted a word that came out of her mouth. Especially after hearing the story of alcohol. Anyone that would try to spin a yarn like that, is a psychopathic liar. I just don't believe it, some do, and that is fine.
I also believe she has some serious mental problems, where she is attaching onto Clementine, i'm sure people will think i'm over reacting. Personally i wouldn't leave a baby in a broken down car, alone. Just me because I know how fragile a newborn is.
I read your reply. And I must say, it's very long, but it's very well thought out and you presented many good points. You presented why it's perfectly okay to like a character despite their mistakes. I applaud you for that.
Nice comment.
These are the reasons why I hate Jane so much. Jane makes Clem put Nick down, she didn't care if she was sad or to do that herself. She convinces me to leave my best friend behind. She made Luke an offer just to forget about Rebecca's baby and make Luke ditch his job and that got Sarah killed. Leaving a baby in a car to manipulate someone to kill his/her friend is the most pathetic move she had ever done. It was stupid and pointless.
Luke was stupid, he should've been doing his job. I never understood why he needed to go up on the deck anyway. I blame BOTH Luke and Jane. A lot of people are quick to criticize Jane for trying to convince you to leave Sarah, but I would love to see what they would do in that situation. Plus, when you are prompted to pull Jane up or tell her to help Sarah, if you choose the silent option, Jane risks her own life to go and help Sarah.
These are the reasons why I hate Jane so much. Jane makes Clem put Nick down, she didn't care if she was sad or to do that herself. She conv… moreinces me to leave my best friend behind. She made Luke an offer just to forget about Rebecca's baby and make Luke ditch his job and that got Sarah killed. Leaving a baby in a car to manipulate someone to kill his/her friend is the most pathetic move she had ever done. It was stupid and pointless.
Luke was stupid, he should've been doing his job. I never understood why he needed to go up on the deck anyway. I blame BOTH Luke and Jane. … moreA lot of people are quick to criticize Jane for trying to convince you to leave Sarah, but I would love to see what they would do in that situation. Plus, when you are prompted to pull Jane up or tell her to help Sarah, if you choose the silent option, Jane risks her own life to go and help Sarah.
The reason I hated Jane from the start was because she shot Troy in the dick. I don't care what's going on, (just like cartman said, you don't just shoot someone in the dick!) that was when I knew I couldn't trust her.
The Sarah thing was understandable when you got dozens of walkers coming through the doors, I don't have time to give you a pep talk.
The Luke thing, well, it's the apocalypse I'll give him a pass.
The final showdown: after reading the comments here, mainly longlivelee, I never thought about the fact that if she brought a baby into the blizzard it would've been just as bad if not worse then leaving AJ in the car. I don't really hate her for toying with Kennys emotions to start the fight, but if you have a knife and he has one good eye, you can't lose. Jane is the one about survival of the fittest, and she lost so that was it for her. I kinda wish neither of them had to die, and you coulda just left them there in the snow, and you run off and hear AJ.
But maybe if she didn't shoot Troy in the dick I wouldn'tve helped kenny while they fought.
The reason I hated Jane from the start was because she shot Troy in the dick. I don't care what's going on, (just like cartman said, you don… more't just shoot someone in the dick!) that was when I knew I couldn't trust her.
The Sarah thing was understandable when you got dozens of walkers coming through the doors, I don't have time to give you a pep talk.
The Luke thing, well, it's the apocalypse I'll give him a pass.
The final showdown: after reading the comments here, mainly longlivelee, I never thought about the fact that if she brought a baby into the blizzard it would've been just as bad if not worse then leaving AJ in the car. I don't really hate her for toying with Kennys emotions to start the fight, but if you have a knife and he has one good eye, you can't lose. Jane is the one about survival of the fittest, and she lost so that was it for her. I kinda wish neither of them had to die, and you coulda just left them there in the sno… [view original content]
Well just so you know, Troy's VA Owen Thomas, (the same guy who also voiced Omid), believed Troy deserved what he got.
You can find the comments from his official youtube channel here.
In a response to a comment saying, "I wanted to kill you [Troy] after you hit Clem " his reply was, "Oh he deserved it..." In addition, he says, "There were some scenes they didn't use that made him WAY worse." So it looks like Troy's VA even believes that Troy deserved to die in such a manner. This is Mr. Thomas' opinion. However as the VA, he knows more about Troy's character than we do, and personally I take Mr. Thomas' opinion into account when judging characters such as Troy and Jane.
The reason I hated Jane from the start was because she shot Troy in the dick. I don't care what's going on, (just like cartman said, you don… more't just shoot someone in the dick!) that was when I knew I couldn't trust her.
The Sarah thing was understandable when you got dozens of walkers coming through the doors, I don't have time to give you a pep talk.
The Luke thing, well, it's the apocalypse I'll give him a pass.
The final showdown: after reading the comments here, mainly longlivelee, I never thought about the fact that if she brought a baby into the blizzard it would've been just as bad if not worse then leaving AJ in the car. I don't really hate her for toying with Kennys emotions to start the fight, but if you have a knife and he has one good eye, you can't lose. Jane is the one about survival of the fittest, and she lost so that was it for her. I kinda wish neither of them had to die, and you coulda just left them there in the sno… [view original content]
Jane was my favorite part of season 2 she can get things done and is calm under pressure. Her trick at the end did not bother me I had been trying to get away from Kenny since season 1.
Well just so you know, Troy's VA Owen Thomas, (the same guy who also voiced Omid), believed Troy deserved what he got.
You can find the … morecomments from his official youtube channel here.
In a response to a comment saying, "I wanted to kill you [Troy] after you hit Clem " his reply was, "Oh he deserved it..." In addition, he says, "There were some scenes they didn't use that made him WAY worse." So it looks like Troy's VA even believes that Troy deserved to die in such a manner. This is Mr. Thomas' opinion. However as the VA, he knows more about Troy's character than we do, and personally I take Mr. Thomas' opinion into account when judging characters such as Troy and Jane.
These are the reasons why I hate Jane so much. Jane makes Clem put Nick down, she didn't care if she was sad or to do that herself. She conv… moreinces me to leave my best friend behind. She made Luke an offer just to forget about Rebecca's baby and make Luke ditch his job and that got Sarah killed. Leaving a baby in a car to manipulate someone to kill his/her friend is the most pathetic move she had ever done. It was stupid and pointless.
Well just so you know, Troy's VA Owen Thomas, (the same guy who also voiced Omid), believed Troy deserved what he got.
You can find the … morecomments from his official youtube channel here.
In a response to a comment saying, "I wanted to kill you [Troy] after you hit Clem " his reply was, "Oh he deserved it..." In addition, he says, "There were some scenes they didn't use that made him WAY worse." So it looks like Troy's VA even believes that Troy deserved to die in such a manner. This is Mr. Thomas' opinion. However as the VA, he knows more about Troy's character than we do, and personally I take Mr. Thomas' opinion into account when judging characters such as Troy and Jane.
Jane was my favorite part of season 2 she can get things done and is calm under pressure. Her trick at the end did not bother me I had been trying to get away from Kenny since season 1.
I'm curious; what do you think was the nature of Troy's and Jane's relationship? I try to write fics myself, and imagining exactly what went on between Jane and Troy for said fics has always been a bit tricky I feel.
Comments
What I meant to put was real people I have met.
Sorry
Is that at all why I'm "bashing" Jane? Because I don't think it is. I can list many reasons why Kenny is flawed, and I still appreciate him as a character. I listed reasons that I do not appreciate Jane, and said that it is fine to like her so long as you recognize that she has made mistakes, to which you reply, "I know, but there are logic behind her so called mistakes". Therefore saying that you don't believe she made any real mistakes.
And who was the one quoting every single part of the other person's comment for the sole purpose of arguing with it/trying to justify it? Because it certainly was not myself. I attempted to be civil, and I am still going to attempt to be civil, even if people keep jumping all over me for it. I stated my opinion. I'm sorry that it's different from yours.
I think you're right on that one.
I said "mistakes" because the things you guys bring up as mistakes are silly to me. Again you are drawing weird conclusions. Did I state in that post "JANE HAS MADE NO MISTAKES WHATSOEVER"?
It's called a damn discussion. If you don't want anyone quoting you boo, well then don't post. You attempt to be civil, yet sub-refer to me and claim I am "antagonizing" you. Nobody is jumping you, stop trying to play the victim card.
and believe me, it's not.
From the start of this thread, i have been stating that I respect your opinions, no matter who you are or what they are. I have stated my opinion aswell, and if that's different to yours, I'm sorry
Did I say "you liking Kenny" was ever wrong? No, but what I am saying is that trying to play the "Jane vs Kenny" argument will lead to nothing good. It just comes up as problematic.
I know and I am sorry for overeacting
You said "so called" mistakes, after all.
And let me tell you something, once you start quoting something in the way that you did, it's no longer a discussion. You made it an argument. I'm not playing any card, much less the "victim card". Last time I checked, I hadn't wrote, "Oh mods, come quick, boo hoo. longlivelee hurt my feelings and I'm all butthurt now". Now, I am going to stop commenting, but feel free to quote this one too and say whatever you like. I could talk with you all day, but I have better things to do than get into petty arguments.
Awww, sorry I offended you, goodnight dearie.
Well, to be fair, I don't like her at all. I don't mind whoever likes her but no. I don't hate her as much as Larry, Bonnie, Arvo or Stranger, but sometimes I wish she never appeared in the S2, along with Arvo. When introduced I thought that TT made Molly 2.0, she even shot that disgusting child abuser Troy in the dick. And she also saved Clem from walkers when Sarah ran away from herd. When episode 4 appeared I wanted to learn more about her to see what is her story, and so they made Molly's story with reversed sister role. Molly's sister was taken away, while Jane left her sister to die! And she tried to do the same for Sarah, she even refused to save her at the observation deck at first. She called her a liability even though she started to care about AJ during the finale who is a HUGE liability. Not to mention what she did to Arvo. Instead of waiting for him to leave and take the medicine, she stole his gun and threaten him at the gunpoint, and for what? For Rebecca, Luke and Kenny who are in mess even before she told that being the group is bad? And in the next episode she cared about Arvo? That is what you get for hiring so many writers to write the characters and a story, especially someone like Jane. I wanted her to stay gone since that scene with taking or keeping the nail file is perfect way to go unknown. No matter what choice you chose between leaving tommorow or not, she comes back to save the day and later it is even Luke's birthday???? The reason why I started hating her is because she accused Kenny for turning into Carver for beating up a idiotic crippled teenager who caused the shooting indirectly caused by Jane!!! If she wasn't running her mouth she would have been in Wellington with Kenny, Clem and AJ, maybe she could have convinced Edith to let everybody in, since she is manipulative, but hey... The plot!
To be honest, I like Jane despite what she's done. Just as I like Kenny after God knows everything he's done. In my opinion they both have redeeming qualities. Jane has the smarts and the wits that I just don't think Kenny has — or refuses to use. He seems to handle situations based on his emotions. Buuut this isn't about him, so I'll stop the comparison. But Jane on the other hand is more willing to listen to reason. She does her best to think logically, which I appreciate because I don't have to worry about being in danger. She also has a lot of skill and knowledge to offer Clementine that the young girl needs to survive. And, okay, yes, Jane didn't want to go back for Sarah and she left her sister to die. To me though her reasons are sound. There were walkers pounding at the door when Clementine was trying to convince Sarah to come. Jane had no idea if she could do that without someone getting bit or killed. If I were in that situation, I would've told Clementine to leave her too. Because like Jane said, Clem did not need Sarah to take her down with her. It wasn't worth it if both Clementine and Luke had already tried. Also, the issue with her sister, Jane mentioned that they were on a roof of some sort and that she couldn't force her sister to jump. And she she couldn't; she couldn't physically carry her or verbally convince her. So what was Jane supposed to do? Push her off? Stay and die with her? I mean, she could have but if Jaime didn't want to live that doesn't mean Jane didn't either. I'm sure Jane would've dragged her sister over if she could've, like she'd been doing before, though sadly it couldn't work that way. Moving onto Jane poking at Kenny's family. That was a low blow. No excuses for that, and there could've been other alternatives other than leaving AJ in the car and provoking Ken. She didn't need to go that far. Totally out of line. Clementine is old enough to chose who'd she'd rather follow. Jane or Kenny. Was Jane just afraid Clem wouldn't chose her? Maybe. Or maybe she just saw potential and her sister in the young girl and simply wanted a capable companion. Who knows. I've already talked enough. I'll shut up because no one is going to read this long ass reply. lol.
I definitely agree with everything you've said here. I really thought I was going to like her, and then all of that changed during Amid the Ruins. Again, I don't at all have a problem with people that like her, so long as they at least realize that she did the things that you listed, and don't try to say they were completely justifiable.
People dislike her because of her feud with Kenny, not because she was a shitty lazily written character with no growth or distinguishable qualities outside of her rough slightly cold demeanor.
Honestly, I did see some potential in her and I'll defend her from people who for whatever reason think nutstain beardface is a more morally irreprehensible character than Jane. I stand on the virtue that neither is good enough to show or teach her shit about survival.
Why is Kenny being brought up on a Jane thread?
I don't see how Nick was a liability at all.
Is it because he shot Matthew? Because from my perspective, he's about as justified in doing that as Kenny was in killing Larry. He made the wrong assumption that Matthew was a clear and present threat to his friends, so he killed him before he could harm them. I sometimes have the feeling that some people hold this against him solely because he's Nick, and not someone else. I bet ten bucks if Luke or someone else shot Matthew instead, people would be much more forgiving.
Is it because he's not the best shot? Instead of writing him off because he can't shoot, find something he's actually proficient at and let him take care of business. There's characters in the other media that haven't been the best shots (Tyreese comes to mind), but they make up for it by being proficient in other areas of combat.
Is it because he nearly shot Clementine when they first met? Because that's about the only mistake you can really hold against him. That's probably the one instance where there's not that much in the way of justification other than that he didn't have any trigger discipline. But in all honesty, that's one fuck-up. Most characters have made a lot more mistakes than Nick has. Other people in the S2 group have made more mistakes in total than he has.
The most notable flaw that Nick has is that he's trigger-happy, and that's about it. And in all honesty? That's a pretty easy flaw to control; just don't let him handle the big guns. It's better than other flaws like having a short temper, which aren't as easily contained/controlled in comparison.
I suppose you could hold him being all mopey about losing his uncle against him as well, but practically every other character that has lost a family member in the game has reacted in about the same way as he did. In fact, Nick probably took that better than most characters would have. He didn't just give up and have to be dragged away when Pete got killed in front of him, he actually made sure he and Clementine were safe before he sat down and started to wallow in despair (if you went with him at the end of ATR). He has to be dragged away when they come across Pete's corpse, but in that case it's understandable since they aren't surrounded by anything at the moment.
Ikr Nick is probably one of my favourite characters.
And like Rebecca and other characters he apologizes to Clem.
Because her character was introduced to clash with his. And by the time No Going Back swung around, his character became the central focal point for the remainder of the season, which of course meant every time Jane opened her mouth, it was out of concern for the threat Kenny posed. Constantly being reminded that he still exists, same for his character as well. Always going on and on about Jane, eventually their anemic dull personalities constantly clashing and feuding gave people the message that discussing one without the other is a hopeless endeavor. And don't get me wrong, it absolutely is.
What do you remember about Kenny in No Going Back? Most likely that he and Jane weren't friends. Same for her, their existence isn't complete without the conflict of the other. That's why 'till the end of time, anyone mentions either, the other will be mentioned as well.
I read your reply. And I must say, it's very long, but it's very well thought out and you presented many good points. You presented why it's perfectly okay to like a character despite their mistakes. I applaud you for that.
Nice comment.
I could rely on Carver more than Jane. I feel like Jane lost too much for her to be reliable. I don't really like her, but we would survive together, but it'd be worse then the Christa-Clem relationship post-abortion
This is my personal opinion on Jane. If you disagree with me that is fine.
I never liked her. You can't force two people to be together, and expect a friendship to just happen, it just doesn't work that way. I didn't like her personality, where she was always trying to be the lone survivor. If you wanted to be the lone survivor, why stay in the group Jane. She complains about practically everyone in the group, she can leave whenever she wants, but she stays to complain..
I never trusted a word that came out of her mouth. Especially after hearing the story of alcohol. Anyone that would try to spin a yarn like that, is a psychopathic liar. I just don't believe it, some do, and that is fine.
I also believe she has some serious mental problems, where she is attaching onto Clementine, i'm sure people will think i'm over reacting. Personally i wouldn't leave a baby in a broken down car, alone. Just me because I know how fragile a newborn is.
These are the reasons why I hate Jane so much. Jane makes Clem put Nick down, she didn't care if she was sad or to do that herself. She convinces me to leave my best friend behind. She made Luke an offer just to forget about Rebecca's baby and make Luke ditch his job and that got Sarah killed. Leaving a baby in a car to manipulate someone to kill his/her friend is the most pathetic move she had ever done. It was stupid and pointless.
At least Lilly cared for her own group.
Luke was stupid, he should've been doing his job. I never understood why he needed to go up on the deck anyway. I blame BOTH Luke and Jane. A lot of people are quick to criticize Jane for trying to convince you to leave Sarah, but I would love to see what they would do in that situation. Plus, when you are prompted to pull Jane up or tell her to help Sarah, if you choose the silent option, Jane risks her own life to go and help Sarah.
I was surprised about that. But it's still her fault for her death.
The reason I hated Jane from the start was because she shot Troy in the dick. I don't care what's going on, (just like cartman said, you don't just shoot someone in the dick!) that was when I knew I couldn't trust her.
The Sarah thing was understandable when you got dozens of walkers coming through the doors, I don't have time to give you a pep talk.
The Luke thing, well, it's the apocalypse I'll give him a pass.
The final showdown: after reading the comments here, mainly longlivelee, I never thought about the fact that if she brought a baby into the blizzard it would've been just as bad if not worse then leaving AJ in the car. I don't really hate her for toying with Kennys emotions to start the fight, but if you have a knife and he has one good eye, you can't lose. Jane is the one about survival of the fittest, and she lost so that was it for her. I kinda wish neither of them had to die, and you coulda just left them there in the snow, and you run off and hear AJ.
But maybe if she didn't shoot Troy in the dick I wouldn'tve helped kenny while they fought.
Sure her and Luke were being stupid, but other than that I don't think it's her fault Sarah died. I blame Carlos the most for being an idiot.
I actually liked when she shot him in the dick, asshole deserved it.
Well just so you know, Troy's VA Owen Thomas, (the same guy who also voiced Omid), believed Troy deserved what he got.
In a response to a comment saying, "I wanted to kill you [Troy] after you hit Clem
" his reply was, "Oh he deserved it..." In addition, he says, "There were some scenes they didn't use that made him WAY worse." So it looks like Troy's VA even believes that Troy deserved to die in such a manner. This is Mr. Thomas' opinion. However as the VA, he knows more about Troy's character than we do, and personally I take Mr. Thomas' opinion into account when judging characters such as Troy and Jane.
Jane was my favorite part of season 2 she can get things done and is calm under pressure. Her trick at the end did not bother me I had been trying to get away from Kenny since season 1.
I wonder what those scenes were that made him seem "worse".
I think there was a post from here that mentioned that Troy was originally sexually abusing Jane, hence why she shot him down there.
Jane derped at the end of Episode 5.
I slightly hate her, but she is someone with survival tactics, so I'll pick her as my companion.
Kenny's existence in Season 2 plot.
I do agree that Kenny shouldn't have been in season 2. Even if I love him, Kenny and Jane destroyed everything.
I can tell
Maybe, agree to disagree.
I have a fanfic that I'm making that would beg to differ when it comes to Troys humanity
Jane all the way man!
"..versatility is not overrated!"
I'm curious; what do you think was the nature of Troy's and Jane's relationship? I try to write fics myself, and imagining exactly what went on between Jane and Troy for said fics has always been a bit tricky I feel.