Who do you think had Clementine's best interest at heart: Kenny, or Jane?
I think Kenny did.
Cause even when things were difficult, like after he lost Sarita, he still protected Clementine.
And, unlike Jane, he didn't run off on Clementine, or the group.
And at Wellington, he wanted Clementine and Aj to be safe, and encouraged her to enter Wellington, even if that meant he would probably never see either one of them again.
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Neither, they were both more after themselves to be honest.
Kenny. Say what you will about him, but he's one to always put his family and the people he cares about first. He's willing to protect Clementine from Carver and can convince the people of Wellington to let her and AJ in, even if it means losing the only two people he has left. Jane, yeah she did care about Clementine and I did like the sort of sisterly bond that was developing between the two, but Jane is just to selfish to truly trust, and I feel at the first sign of danger she would completely abandon Clementine.
She was willing to do that with Sarah, at the trailer park.
Kenny on the other hand, wouldn't have left until he had gotten Clementine out of there.
Kenny FTW.
I feel that he could certainly have exercised some more self-control, but all in all he just wanted Clementine and AJ to be safe. They're literally all that he has left.
Jane, while she may mean well has a history of abandoning others and has spent much time on her own. There's nothing stopping her from reverting back to that, she does care for Clementine but if something ever happened to Clem she'd probably get over it fast (she'd probably still dwell on it though) and go back to what she was doing before. Whereas Kenny would be devastated that he has now truly lost everything.
They both cared just as much as the other there is no right or wrong choice. I swear it's the same discussions here everyday.
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NEITHER OF THEM. If any of them had Clementine's best interests at heart, they would've listened to her and stopped. Neither of them stopped, at that moment where they fight each other, neither one cared about Clementine, they only cared about getting each other hurt.
Kenny still cares about Clementine, he tries to protect her, even when he knows he shouldn't be the one to do it, he tries hard to keep Clementine safe but there are times Kenny's anger clouds his actions, Kenny still puts Clementine in danger regardless of his intentions.
Jane develops care for Clementine, she tries to teach Clementine that she can survive on her own, she develops as a character due to Clementine's interactions with her, Jane learns from Clementine and she evidently finds it difficult to harm people that haven't done anything bad to her, she's shown signs of humanity left - she still gets phased by killing others. Regardless of how many times Jane has saved Clementine, she has also endangered Clementine.
In the end though, they're both only humans, each one will always try to justify what they did because in their perspective it's usually for good intentions, but they are just humans, they make mistakes and let their emotions and ideas get the better of them.
Both are primarily selfish, but Jane is more personally effective at protecting Clem's best interests, and is much more capable of change.
Yeah I agree, Kenny might not have been entirely sane but he is the only character that's really there for Clem in Season 2. When's the last time Jane got the shit beat out of her for Clem's sake? Jane was great, I liked her, but people are letting their hatred of Kenny blind them towards the fact that Kenny has sacrificed a lot. Sure he was sometimes an ass in Season 1 but everything he did was in the group's best interest.
In Season 1 he suspected the St John's were hiding something and Bam, they were cannibals, he wanted to leave the Motor Inn because he thought it wasn't safe and Boom, bandits raided it, he suggested they leave Savannah ASAP and didn't trust Vernon's group and waddaya know, boat got stolen, by Vernon's group nontheless that's double strike right there. Then Lee got bitten and Clementine got kidnaped. Even though Kenny was losing himself and Wellington might have been fake and if it wasn't it would be near impossible to find, the man represents something Clem needs in those times...hope.
Yeah, and Mike dragged him away as he was mourning. Look, Kenny getting angry at Clementine here, yeah I didn't like it, but that is totally in his character. He does the same thing with Lee on the train concerning Duck, he gets pissed and, even if you have supported him the whole time, says "Fuck you Lee" and stuff like we aren't friends and you don't know what's best for them. He gets angry, it's the heat of the moment, but he does apologize for it later, in both scenarios for Lee and Clem, and realizes that he shouldn't have acted that way. He got angry with them, but that doesn't mean he stopped caring about them.
Jane definitely has one thing at heart--
brace yourselves for this absolute killer of a joke
a KNIFE
Neither. They can both get bullets in their hearts
This is true, i don't think either one is better than the other because Jane is a known liar, and kenny is stubborn, his way or the highway. That just won't work.
I can't seem to remember exactly when he apologized to Lee. Was it when they were trapped in the closet? I mean attic. and No R.Kelly puns intended.
PUNNY, Jane fell over and kenny tried to give her CPR with a knife.
It didn't work so well.
Yeah it was the attic scene. I haven't played Season 1 in a while my memory may not be that good, but I'm pretty confident that he apologized there. And even if he didn't, it's not like he completely held it over Lee's head and made him feel guilty about it. Something I do remember from my game (since I fought Kenny on the train), is that they were even joking about it, Kenny saying how Lee couldn't fight for shit and saying how he had to knock some sense into him, showing that he did agree with what Lee did in order for him to realize what was happening and is thankful that Lee was there to help him see it when he couldn't.
Honestly? I think Kenny. Jane has shown that she would leave her sister behind, leave a baby behind, and set up someone she didn't like. She's probably better at surviving alone, but Kenny is more likely to back you up when the chips are down. Kenny is likely to explode in anger, and say bad things but will still back you up. Jane on the other hand will say nice things, and the blow your balls off, or convince you that your group is unsafe so you should go with her.
What's with the debate that either Kenny or Jane have to have a say so in Clementine's wellbeing? They both suck pretty hard at keeping people they love safe. Hell, how many people related to Kenny died? Seesh, forget about it.
It doesn't matter how many people died under his care at least he tried, he isn't Superman, he's a flawed Human being. All that matters is that he's putting every fiber of his being into protecting Clementine and AJ. Hell, how many people died under Joel's care? Sarah, Tess, Sam, Henry? Yet the only thing that maters is that both still have the will go on for their girls. If a ZA did happen you would probably commit suicide if your pet died. I admire these men, they go on when there's no hope in sight and that at least deserves some respect.
Truly? Neither of them.
As soon as the baby was born, that is the Only thing that Kenny was remotely interested in protecting. His demeanor towards Clem changes markedly after the baby comes into the picture, and he becomes so singularly focused on AJ's survival that he proceeds to put the entire group (including Clem) into increasingly dangerous situations, irregardless of the objections and alternate suggestions of the rest of the group.
Jane is no better, she put three lives (plus her own) on the line to prove a point to an 11 yr old. She also was very antagonistic before the physical fight with Kenny which did nothing to help their situation. I personally like jane a shitload more than Kenny, but that is neither here nor there. She only cared about Clem in that she saw Clem as a substitute for her sister that was less likely to get herself killed, and to lessen her own loneliness. Everything she did, she did for herself.
IMO, Clem is better off by herself, if the two of them are the only other options.
Joel was every bit the psycho Kenny was, so comparing the two only further proves my point. Kenny sucks jagged balls at keeping loved ones alive.
Both, and neither. Both had some of Clementine's interest, however neither had all of it. Unlike characters like Christa, Omid and Lee, the characters who were great caretakers for Clementine. Jane and Kenny had to endure a bitter world where they could only account for some of Clementine's interest, not all of it. We saw this with Christa. How in Season 1, she's so caring and so trusting of Clementine and that bitterly changes after Omid's death where she seems harsher, more or less about herself than Clementine.
Well, I mean, Jane has lied once (who hasn't), is that enough to cast suspicion on every single thing she does?
I wasn't basing the 'selfish' part on the lie, she lied in a misguided attempt to help Clementine.
Clearly Kenny. Hardly any use debating it at this point. Kenny tried to do what was best for the kids, whether it ended up being the right decision or not he always tried. Jane was manipulative and it seemed like she needed to rationalize leaving behind her own sister. Like if she could make Clementine cold and hard then she could rationalize that her own sister wasn't cut out for the world now. All Kenny did was help eliminate threats to the physically weaker members of the group, and each one took some sort of emotional toll on him. And yet, he always tried his best.
Yeah they might both be a little batty but the truth is Clem and Ellie need men like that. They can't have some wuss that can't get shit done, they'd be dead if it weren't for the things they've done. Joel and Kenny are practically normal compared to the likes of people like David and Carver.
Jane.
Jane was freaking carrying her sister around when there were walkers behind them, she only left her sister behind because iirc at one point there was no choice. And Jane didn't compromise the safety of the baby at all, she carried it all the way in the blizzard with the walkers behind her. Also she only came back to our group because she cares about Clem, and even if she didn't care about the others in the group she still saved them a number of times.
"Say nice things, and then blow your balls off" It's so wrong that you're using this against Jane that I don't even feel like arguing. Troy wasn't a friend, and didn't she do that right after Kenny smashed Carver's face beyond death ?
"Every fiber of his being" Like when he asked Clem to help him take on Carver's whole gang unarmed who had AKs ?
"Kenny, the man represents something that Clementine needs in these times....hope."
AMEN!
That's one thing that I loved about Kenny, is that he never truly lost hope.
He had his ups and downs, but he never lost all hope.
When Lilly said that Kenny wasn't the right person to lead the group, I had Lee respond: "Kenny believes there's still hope! Maybe that's what we need right now."
And I had him respond that way, because in a survival situation, hope is absolutely vital, and Kenny's upbeat attitude in that respect was, admirable.
Neither.
Both characters may have reasons to care about Clementine, but it's mostly out of their own selfish interests than Clementine's own wellbeing, and their actions ends up often puts Clementine into danger that could have easily been avoided in several occasions.
Kenny endangers Clementine as well as others in a few occasions, such as forcing Clementine to take the radio in Episode 3 in order to smuggle it to Luke where she could have been caught red handed, and only takes the blame for the theft due to putting Clementine into the position where she cannot refuse to take the radio to Luke. He also shows a lack of self restraint in situations where being calm would have been a better outcome, such as picking a fight with Mike in Episode 3 with Clementine in the same room, which ends up causing walkers to break in and almost gets her killed in two occasions. And then there's Episode 5 where, if it wasn't for sheer dumb luck that Wellington actually does exist without concrete proof, he forces to take her along to a dangerously risky journey to an unknown destination in the middle of a blizzard with no supplies, where in any other story would have spelled death for everyone involved, including Clementine.
And then there's Jane who, for all of her bravado and survivalist knowledge, caused a lot of illogical and reckless problems for everyone in the future due to her actions. She provokes Arvo into causing the ambush thanks to mugging him and encouraging Clementine to steal from him, which ends up nearly getting Clementine's entire group killed as Arvo brings his group to attack everyone. Her sex offer to Luke distracts him from his watch guard job that allows walkers to sneak up on the group, and could have very likely got everyone eaten, and also undoes your effort in saving a child from certain death also indirectly caused by Jane by her attempt in persuading Clementine in leaving behind a grieving child to be eaten by walkers. And her 'baby death' plan provokes a mentally unstable man into killing her, just to prove to Clementine that he's unstable, which Clementine could have very well figured out on her own and Jane would have not needed to formulate the plan had she asked Clementine in the first place if she felt safe around Kenny.
And finally, both of them are directly responsible for the Cabin Group's downfall due to advocating the 'walk past the walker heard' plan in Episode 3 that risks many people's lives, including Clementine, especially if Clementine wants no part in the plan and agrees to the idea to wait until the walker heard disappears, then escape. Also, Kenny's abuse towards Arvo, and Jane's mugging Arvo and provoking his group into ambushing us, all ends up causing the chain of events where Arvo shoot Clementine in the shoulder, which would have killed her.
In the end, Clementine is better off without Kenny or Jane.
They both did. Jane just did in her own awkward way. And Kenny's a family man so it was more obvious from him.
Outside of Luke, Nick, and potentially Clementine, the rest of the group (including Bonnie) were all in agreement to that plan, though
If you're going to blame Kenny and Jane for pushing the plan, then Mike, Sarita, Rebecca, Bonnie, and Carlos deserve blame as well for agreeing to it
Of course, the majority of the group were responsible for their own downfall with the 'walk into the walker herd' plan, but this topic is about whether Clementine was in Kenny or Jane's best interest.
Since both of them agreed with the plan whether Clementine wanted it or not, both of them are responsible for just as much as the majority of the group.
I feel like neither is any good for clementine. One ate glass, and one is a nutjob.
Here is my deal, neither one could compromise with the other, their stubbornness was so infuriating. i was annoyed that Clementine was the adult by the end of the game, and she was babysitting Kenny/Jane. The ending proved to me, no matter how much they say they "respect" Clementine, they don't. If they did, they would try to get along with each other, act like a normal human being, instead of two middle school kids fighting over the same girl.
I don't know why anyone likes Kenny or Jane. I can get the Kenny, sorta because he has a few funny lines, but other than that.
Kenny hands down. We've seen Wellington and the outcome of that. If Kenny wasn't looking out for her he would've turned them both around. He's insistent on them going there so they'll be safe. Even when you abandon him at the rest stop he gives up the baby to Clem.
I take it you don't like Joel either? Lol
Wow naik, actually defending Jane!
Jane would never do what Kenny did for Clem before getting his eye bashed in. Jane never cared about anyone but herself. Yes, Kenny had very selfish moments that got worse as time went on after everything he went through. As far as im concerned, i agree with Kennyftw on his/her comment.
Jane did in her own awkward, rob the Russians and let Clem's group take the fall way.
Great post RichWalk23!
This is pretty much my take on things as well (as i said a couple posts up thread).
Clementine is way better off on her own if those 2 are the only other options.
But the fact that - against all odds and common sense, Wellington actually does exist - does not mean that it was in anyones best interest to doggedly search for it against their will. Especially since there was no Proof whatsoever that it did exist until they got there.
In the real world they'd all be dead from exposure, or at the very least be missing fingers, ears and noses. Such a foolish idea to go north at the beginning of winter, especially when none of them have any idea how to survive in those conditions.
In fact the better idea, (once they had a truck) for the group and especially for the baby, would have been to go back to Howe's and collect baby formula, food, supplies and rest up for a couple days. Then make a fucking plan - that everyone could either agree upon or go their own way from.
Common Sense, People! Guess it's not so common anymore.