Where is this AJ hatred coming from?

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  • It would've been nice to be able to give AJ a different name, I mean it's a cool name - Alvin Junior - and a good tribute to the father Alvin. I just didn't like how it felt as though Kenny chose the name for him out of guilt for leaving Alvin behind or not giving himself up to keep him alive. I recall lots of people hoping for it to be a choice.

    Probably because she was basically burdened with a kid that wasn't her responsibility and because he's everyone's biggest suspect for Clem l

  • Even badass characters sometimes require hand-holding and development. Although allot of people seem to only care about completely independent characters with good action scenes but at least that's only some people.

    KCohere posted: »

    A lot of fans seem to have an outsized hatred for characters that are dependent. They seem to want everyone to be a badass.

  • I agree, especially about 'thinking outside the narrative'. Just using logic to attempt to explain or undermine aspects of a fictional reality seems like a pointless thing to do.

    Chilled posted: »

    Isn't everything a plot device in a story? Thinking outside the narrative ruins the experience imo, AJ wasn't there to be a plot device, AJ was there because Rebecca had a baby.

  • Like Marijaa pointed out, he is a baby. But if you're looking for the usefulness of having a baby, you'd be surprised at the kindness strangers could show towards you if you have an infant, the world's future, in your arms.

    Because he is useless and probably some people will die because of him in Season 3.

  • edited June 2016

    What baby did Lee have a choice in looking after? I don't remember this in Season One...

    If you meant Clementine, yeah, he did make the choice to care for Clementine as Clementine makes the choice to care for AJ.

    Anthorn posted: »

    Exactly. LEE had a choice in looking after the baby. Clem didn't. During my playthrough as Clem she didn't like babies. Come Episode 5 she

  • Jesus, what is your problem, guys? I don't want AJ with me, this is my opinion. Everyone has to respect each other's opinion.

    prink34320 posted: »

    Like Marijaa pointed out, he is a baby. But if you're looking for the usefulness of having a baby, you'd be surprised at the kindness strangers could show towards you if you have an infant, the world's future, in your arms.

  • Everyone has to respect each other's opinion.

    Yeah, but we do have the right to agree or disagree with it. :P

    Jesus, what is your problem, guys? I don't want AJ with me, this is my opinion. Everyone has to respect each other's opinion.

  • Then why the hell is he even in the game?

    Because people get pregnant in real life as well and the only 'supernatural' we have in game is walkers. Humans stay humans. And humans get pregnant. It had to do with Rebecca's story with Carver too.

    Newborns have no personalities so of course he isn't as popular as Lee or Kenny. Not everything/everybody has to have some divine purpose. N

  • I agree, she's not a completely blank slate character controlled by fans. She still has values imparted in her by her parents, Lee, Christa, Omid, and everyone else who has influenced her. Ive seen nothing to indicate her being capable of abandoning a newborn baby to death even if some fans would wish that.

    prink34320 posted: »

    I'm surprised by what seems like the general attitude towards AJ as well. I don't think it's in Clementine's character to let AJ die, even if we have the choice of dialogue and action over her, she's still very much an individual character.

  • edited June 2016

    But symbolism is important for something like TWD, where up until that point, many innocence were killed and lives were ruined by the events from the past four episodes.

    You can find symbols (not smart ones necessarily) if you want to. AJ can symbolize hope. Or helplessness. Or innocence. So yeah, I just made up his purpose.

    It was pushed to the way-side in favor of Kenny and Luke's, Kenny and Carvers, or Kenny and Jane's feuds.

    They all had their own interpretations of the baby, what he meant to them in the apocalypse. Jane does start the talk abour raising a baby with Rebecca but later on all characters focus on their own, "selfish" goals and ambitions. We've seen children coping with the apocalypse but the baby is something new in this game.

    And then loss is pushed to the wayside to a "touching" scene, except a slaughtered child lay less than fifteen feet away and I'm supposed to take what away from it?

    Sarah's death was horrible, I believe we all can agree on that. It was nice seeing baby alive and well, with the flaw of everyone ignoring poor teenager just being eaten alive. Every day some people die and some are just born. An intense contrast, isn't it?

    Well, she was

    She did have her own personality already shaped and her motives pretty clear. We obviously disagree on this one.

    Newborns have no personalities so of course he isn't as popular as Lee or Kenny Yes, neither did the baby from the video I showed. B

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    Killah posted: »

    Right? I'm sure that is the most powerful-anti-cold blanket.

  • There's a difference between respecting and disagreeing with someone's opinion. This is a forum where we all are allowed to discuss.

    Jesus, what is your problem, guys? I don't want AJ with me, this is my opinion. Everyone has to respect each other's opinion.

  • People don't just magically get pregnant in real life, it's a thing that happens and is planned, which AJ definitely was, how insane must you be to willingly birth a baby in a world this fucked up, a world with no hope, a world where he has no chance of living a normal life? It doesn't hold up with your "this is real life" argument, because in real life if you put people into this situation they would obviously never even wish for a baby. He is obviously a plot device, a plot device used in Rebecca's and Carver's story as well as Kenny and Jane's feud.

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    Then why the hell is he even in the game? Because people get pregnant in real life as well and the only 'supernatural' we have in game is walkers. Humans stay humans. And humans get pregnant. It had to do with Rebecca's story with Carver too.

  • edited June 2016

    Sometimes that we overlook the fact that, even when we are making decisions, those decisions are there because Clementine thought about them in the first place.

    For example, when Carver is beating Kenny with the walkie-talkie, Clementine has the chance to either go help him herself, because he is somebody who she knew in the past, and pretending to do Pete knows what, or to help Carlos restrain Sarita, since Carlos is asking Clem directly for help, and she might feel obliged to comply given that he is an adult.

    That is two choices, but there are other choices that we weren't given—comfort Sarah, ask Mike for help, shout for Tavia to intervene, break one of the background vases to call attention, or even curl into a ball on the ground.

    KCohere posted: »

    I agree, she's not a completely blank slate character controlled by fans. She still has values imparted in her by her parents, Lee, Christa,

  • If we can see Sarah and Nick as liabilities

    We can see everyone as liabilites but we shouldn't because that's a primitive way of thinking.

    and we want to keep it alive for what reason? Because it's a baby and it deserves a chance?

    Why did people keep kids and babies alive during the wars? Because they are, guess what, HUMAN BEINGS! They deserve a chance as much as everybody else.

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    If we can see Sarah and Nick as liabilities, then why would we treat a baby any differently? And can we also remember that AJ might have

  • So talking about killing a baby is just as bad as talking about killing any human being in my opinion.

    That's why nobody talks about killing any other human beings.

    It's a quick and painless death.

    So these are the magical words that justify murder nowadays?

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    I don't see babies as any special form of life yet. I see all life as precious (loopholes, am I right) So talking about killing a baby is

  • That, that actually makes a lot of sense, at least in the alone and go with Kenny endings, where you are presumably out in the open with no direction. Going by ethics, I believe that it would be ambiguous more than it'd be wrong. However, I don't think that there is a reason to do so in the Howe's and Wellington endings.

    Oh wait, but they're going to merge the five routes at some point. Yeah, that brings some trouble onto the table.

    Anyway, I do understand and partly share your point. It would have to be something quick though.

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    Yeah I know the feeling Also @BetterToSleep I completely agree that it would be ethically wrong to leave AJ. And I think they were confus

  • it's a thing that happens and is planned

    Since we have no idea whose child is AJ we can't be sure whether Rebecca planned actually having a child or it all happened because of Carver and their meetings.

    He is obviously a plot device, a plot device used in Rebecca's and Carver's story as well as Kenny and Jane's feud.

    He exists for plot, of course, so does every fiction character ever. Lee was a plot device for Clementine's story. The boat was a plot deivce. Chuck was a plot device.

    People don't just magically get pregnant in real life, it's a thing that happens and is planned, which AJ definitely was, how insane must yo

  • He asked why we hate AJ and i answered. That's it. There is no need to explain me he is baby.

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    There's a difference between respecting and disagreeing with someone's opinion. This is a forum where we all are allowed to discuss.

  • There was need to explain. He's a baby and he can't be "useful" to anyone. A stupid reason to hate anyone, even a character.

    He asked why we hate AJ and i answered. That's it. There is no need to explain me he is baby.

  • Yes, i know baby can't be "useful". That's not i mean. My english is not good and i couldn't explain what i mean. Sorry for that.

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    There was need to explain. He's a baby and he can't be "useful" to anyone. A stupid reason to hate anyone, even a character.

  • HueHue? HueHueHue!

    Green613 posted: »

    bcuz hurr durr plot device lululel im a master plot writer huehue

  • edited June 2016

    Although we have choices, the choices we can make are the choices Clementine presents for herself as BetterToSleep said, if she was a blank slate we would have the ability to say anything and do anything, dialogue and actions would not be restricted by her own perspective of the situation.

    Plus, we only play as her for about a week in Season 2, hardly enough time to mold her into someone who dislikes babies in my opinion, especially when there's no options available for Clementine to show she dislikes babies(even if she doesn't hold AJ the first time, she does it anyway later on).

    Basically, like all characters from games that pertain choices, the characters already have some established personality, otherwise how would the narrative work?

    KCohere posted: »

    I agree, she's not a completely blank slate character controlled by fans. She still has values imparted in her by her parents, Lee, Christa,

  • I don't have a problem, I just disagree with your perspective and as you have every right to have an opinion, I have every right to have one as well. I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it.

    Jesus, what is your problem, guys? I don't want AJ with me, this is my opinion. Everyone has to respect each other's opinion.

  • Since we have no idea whose child is AJ we can't be sure whether Rebecca planned actually having a child or it all happened because of Carver and their meetings.

    She was obviously happy at the thought of having a child, I think it would be a safe assumption he was planned. In the case he wasn't planned it would make even less sense, it'd be stupid as hell to even risk having a child in the apocalypse.

    He exists for plot, of course, so does every fiction character ever. Lee was a plot device for Clementine's story. The boat was a plot deivce. Chuck was a plot device.

    Lee was an actual character, not a bunch of pixels that sometimes lets out something similar to baby sounds.

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    it's a thing that happens and is planned Since we have no idea whose child is AJ we can't be sure whether Rebecca planned actually h

  • She was obviously happy at the thought of having a child, I think it would be a safe assumption he was planned. In the case he wasn't planned it would make even less sense, it'd be stupid as hell to even risk having a child in the apocalypse.

    It had to do with Carver and I don't recall very well why did they have the relationship they had. We can't know for sure.

    Lee was an actual character, not a bunch of pixels that sometimes lets out something similar to baby sounds.

    Babies are still characters, with no real formed personality, of course. We are not playing as them (lmao) so there isn't a real reason why AJ shouldn't be in the game. It wasn't a stranger's baby that they made like ten minutes before Jane vs Kenny so it's all fine.

    Since we have no idea whose child is AJ we can't be sure whether Rebecca planned actually having a child or it all happened because of Carve

  • MFW I click the thread and read this...

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    Deltino posted: »

    Who said I didn't like being fucked

  • Very good points.

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    She was obviously happy at the thought of having a child, I think it would be a safe assumption he was planned. In the case he wasn't planne

  • edited June 2016

    If that's what you're advocating, i don't see how pointing it out is calling names. It's pointing out your position.

    I thought you were done talking to me...

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    Or a baby murder advocate or a sadist... Don't forget those ones.

  • No one was worked up. Gosh the Internet so wants to be treated like innocent little flowers.

    I talked to him and he has decided to read through some of this thread and will then decide how to proceed. He asked me what I wanted too, a

  • I want to get rid of AJ asap. He is a liability and think about it, he's gotta grow atleast 7 years or so to become atleast a little bit usefull.

  • I cant.

    Hypnosis posted: »

    I want to get rid of AJ asap. He is a liability and think about it, he's gotta grow atleast 7 years or so to become atleast a little bit usefull.

  • This

    MarijaaNo7 posted: »

    If we can see Sarah and Nick as liabilities We can see everyone as liabilites but we shouldn't because that's a primitive way of thi

  • You said connections to babies would change. Not true of everyone. Only the weak would abandon them

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    Hate babies? What? Am I the only one who thinks that the Zombie Apocalpyse is hell and living in it is torture?

  • you can't?

    KCohere posted: »

    I cant.

  • I can't deal with this whole attitude that if you're not "useful", you're garbage. Thank goodness the show doesn't think that of Judith.

    Hypnosis posted: »

    you can't?

  • I was saying if I feel right not caring about Nick or Sarah's deaths.

    So what I meant by that was I should feel the same about all of their lives. So when I was heartless leaving them behind, it should be the same here

    Kryik posted: »

    But you did say "If I feel right not caring" Just looking for debate though, not arguing, it's interesting

  • edited June 2016

    Oh well thats your opinion. In the comics she died thankfully. I hope she will die in the show at some point too. I mean it gotta be annoying to film scenes with a baby all the time from a production standpoint aswell.

    KCohere posted: »

    I can't deal with this whole attitude that if you're not "useful", you're garbage. Thank goodness the show doesn't think that of Judith.

  • Hi all! Firstly I'd like to say thank you TTG for continueing this story at all. And Clem rocks! Now then, Aj's plotline....how to explain it..one word...Drama! I feel like haters hate him because its a pretty bad time already! Walker,walkers everywhere. Now here's a baby for you to care, Let us sleep now if you dare, the brains,the brains they're everywhere! Poetry(such as it is) aside, TWD is drama! AJ creates that,ppl love to complain but its true. The game is'nt called Javier/Clems guide to an easy life! And I'm one who loves to complain about the Aj plot. My reason is Christa's Baby. But I wouldn't abandon Aj ethier so......

  • edited June 2016

    You hope she dies. Why do you want her to die when there is no reason for it? Theyre in a community where they can settle down and raise kids. Or do you just want people to stop procreating all together?

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