I was saving this for my own personal topic at some point, but the first character that comes to is Sarah.
If I'm being nice by keeping most of how the story went in tact, the trailer part scene would remain almost exactly the same(sorry Nick fans, but I honestly can't think of what I'd do differently off the top of my head that the game at least tries to imply went down; I plan on doing some 'research' so I can try once again to better understand and appreciate his character some more before I make any big judgement calls around him), maybe a smidge more interaction with her during the baby delivery setup, and then her role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same. Whether she actually participates in the fight or not, when the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless. If we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense, she is buried under the rubble, just as before, and needs Jane to come help her. Here's where the differences come in:
You have two choices: Save Jane or Help Sarah. If you choose the former choice, the game carries on as it did except instead of glossing over her death scene (as I found out on my second playthrough), you actually see it like you do if you try to in the final game, minus Jane's involvement of course; this is basically to rub in the fact that you just gave up on Sarah and "killing one in order to save many is part of survival" and yadda x 3.
However, if you choose the latter choice, Jane can (determinately, if you want your previous choices to matter even more) successfully pull Sarah free, but when everything is said and done, you learn she hurt her left leg in the fall( you'll learn the symbolic reason why in a bit).
If were going with the determinate aspect, here's various reasons why she can still die: the board can fall and hits Jane square in the face (I know its still stupid, but I'm just keeping the idea it can debatably be no one's fault in tact), Sarah hits Jane in the shin which causes her to abandon Sarah (if your relationship with Sarah was negative/slightly worse compared to Jane), Jane loses her grip and has to move away when the walkers claw at her(if your relationship with Jane was negative/slightly worse compared to Sarah), Jane decides to simply kill Sarah (randomly dependent on how you got on her case earlier), or Sarah panically tells Jane to just go(randomly dependent on what you said to convince her earlier). Just random thoughts honestly.
Anyway, if you saved her again, Sarah is brought alongside Luke for exercise after Jane leaves. When Kenny and Luke get into their argument, Sarah pipes up towards the end (after Kenny sets Luke straight) and the players are given the opportunity to respond to her afterwards. If you were overly frustrated with her failures so far or the fact that Jane left out of guilt because of her, you get the chance to finally have Clementine go off on her. If you are a little more patient or accepting of her flaws, you can either bluntly reaffirm the whole "you have to try or no one is going to help" talk from earlier or kindly show that you're happy she gets the chance to live on. Either way, Sarah (either out of newfound personal resolve, understanding, or borderline tearful guilt, depending on your choices) states that she has somewhat accepted that Carlos is dead and that she is going to literally(ha ha) start pulling her own weight from now on. Especially now that she has to grow up and set an example for the baby.
However long it was later, we see the group walking down the snowy road as usual and we see that Sarah is keeping her promise: she is bringing up the rear due to her limp, with a gun and possibly another weapon visible on her, and her left leg is set in a makeshift caste that was clearly made over the course of an hour, if even that. When Arvo shows up, she mostly keeps quiet as usual, but she could probably ask if Arvo's friendly while you pick your choice. By the way, in case you haven't figured it out yet, her makeshift casted left leg is supposed to invoke a contrast with Arvo's metal braced right leg and make her his good couterpart: a broken left leg suggests a lack of self-sufficiency, while a broken right leg suggests a lack of confidence. When Arvo starts talking, we can see Sarah cautiously grab for her gun in the background depending on what you tell the group about Arvo (most likely with a nervous/uncertain look on her face to match Clementine's; because let's face it, Sarah's no action hero). When the Russians come out, she can be seen stepping closer to Clementine (preferably towards the back, between Luke and Kenny and opposite of Mike) with her gun drawn in Vitali's general direction, still nervous but clearly trying to keep calm for Clementine's sake.
When Rebecca turns and starts looking around, she can be seen near Clementine starting to go into her panic mode and glancing back and forth between Clementine and Rebecca. And then the final choice happens: if you choose shoot Rebecca, Clementine quickly does so; if you call for help, Kenny does the deed; however, if you do nothing, Sarah glances at Clementine one last time(similar to how she did when Clementine slapped her) and, with her hands clearly shaking, makes her only walker kill, as Buricko opens fire shortly afterwards.( By the way, the call for help or do nothing choices could easily be switched because they fulfill the same basic idea in the game proper. Also, sorry Kenny fans, but I did find it a bit odd and lazy that he's most likely the one to put down Rebecca and kill all three of the Russians.)
When No Turning Back begins, it plays out basically the same way, the only difference is that Sarah's bleeding body isn't too far away from where Rebecca and the baby are, with her arms/shoulders clearly pointed in its general direction. When the fight is done and over with, Clementine and Jane look over her corpse and you have a choice of what brief parting words you want to say. They then join the other group members around Rebecca, since neither of them say anything say much during this part. Luke or Bonnie can also have a comment or two lamenting that Sarah died like this. Its at this point when Bonnie promises Rebecca they'll take care of the baby and Kenny (a notoriously overzealous and protective family man) looks over towards Arvo. The basic idea is to have her gun training pay off, give Clementine a legitimate reason to determinately be angry with Arvo at this point, and also properly reinforcing what Carver and Jane were saying by having her die because that's just the way the people of the world works now.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
I was saving this for my own personal topic at some point, but the first character that comes to is Sarah.
If I'm being nice by keeping m… moreost of how the story went in tact, the trailer part scene would remain almost exactly the same(sorry Nick fans, but I honestly can't think of what I'd do differently off the top of my head that the game at least tries to imply went down; I plan on doing some 'research' so I can try once again to better understand and appreciate his character some more before I make any big judgement calls around him), maybe a smidge more interaction with her during the baby delivery setup, and then her role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same. Whether she actually participates in the fight or not, when the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless. If we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense, she is buried under the rub… [view original content]
Its just ideas I decided to share on how i think the games could have been improved on for example with season 2 i felt Christa and Omid were sadly very wasted and wanted to make sure in my vision that they had more of a role
No prob, Bob! Threads like this are what I joined the forums for.
I must say that, from what I skimmed here cuz I'm a lazy foq, you got quite the vision on your sclera. Have you ever considered fanfiction?
I'll share some of my own ideas I've been working on for quite a while now, although I'll just write down my Carley ideas since I might end up writing too much xD
Carley
S1E3 - If Lee had a good relationship with Lilly, he could calm her down and diffuse the situation preventing her from killing Carley. When the group reached the train, Carley would offer to help Lee look around the train and as they search train, Lee could ask Carley about her thoughts on there being a traitor, if she knows anything about trains, about her life pre-apocalypse and her thoughts on Lilly. When Chuck appears, Carley is startled and points her gun at him and asks him who he is. Carley then sits with the group and Lee can ask her about what she thinks of Chuck and more about her past life. If Lee doesn't find the animal crackers when the train starts, Carley will give them to Clementine. When Lee convinces Kenny to stop the train, Carley offers to shoot Duck but Lee instead asks her to look after Clementine. Whilst the train is moving, Lee could ask Carley more about herself and talk about Kenny, Katjaa and Duck and after Lee discovers that Ben is traitor, he can confide in Carley about it. When the group first meets Christa and Omid, Carley is on her guard. Lee can again talk to Carley, this time about her impressions on Christa and Omid, instead of Christa being alone with Clementine, Carley is with them. When Clementine offers to go into the shed with Lee, Carley offers to go in her place and Lee can choose between them. Lee's dialogue with Carley slightly changes depending on whether she was romanced.
S1E4 - On the way to the mansion, Carley shoots walkers surrounding Clementine and saves her, preventing Chuck from having to do so. When the group make it to the mansion, Carley tries to open the garage door, Lee can ask her why she's doing it(to which she responds that there could be something useful in there that isn't inside the house) and if she has any ideas about getting into the house. When Lee has to dig up the grave, Carley will hold Clementine and ask her to look away. When they're in the house, Carley agrees with Christa that they should go to the country side rather than look for a boat, she brings up that there might not be room on the boat for everyone. Lee can talk to Carley whilst looking around in the mansion, he can ask her about Ben's secret, Kenny, the radio and what she thinks the group should do. When Lee and Kenny leave to look for the boat, Lee can ask Carley to look after Clementine instead of Ben. When Lee returns to find that Clementine has gone missing, Carley tells Lee that Clementine found a boat and the group go out to see it, he can then talk to her about her thoughts on Vernon and Molly. When the group gets ready to head to Crawford, Carley will offer to stay to look after Omid and determinantly Clementine. When the group arrive back at the house, Carley has her gun in her hands and determinantly Clementine in her arms, afraid that Omid may have turned - which angers Christa. After, Lee can talk to Carley again about her thoughts on Ben, the boat situation and Vernon's offer. When Lee is bitten - if he doesn't reveal his bite, Carley will offer to help find Clementine - Lee can refuse if Carley isn't romanced, if Lee refuses her help, Carley instead protects the boat. If Lee reveals his bite, Carley will react shocked or very saddened and tears up if romanced, she goes with him to help save Clementine regardless - either because she loves Lee and Clementine(if romanced) or to fulfill her debt to Lee and because she cares about Clementine. Lee's dialogue with Carley somewhat changes depending on whether she was romanced.
S1E5 - If Carley comes along with Lee and discovers that he was bitten, she expresses shock and a bit of anger that he didn't tell her sooner or is more saddened if romanced. When Lee looks around, he can talk to Carley and she'll thank him for all that he's done for her, if she was romanced, she'll give Lee a kiss and says that she doesn't want Lee to leave her. When they're on the roof, Lee can tell Carley that he loves her and can kiss her if romanced, if not romanced Carley will talk about Doug and express that she still thinks about him and thanks Lee for the last time for saving her in the Drug Store back in Macon. When the group make it back to the mansion, Carley will ensure Lee that they'll find Clementine and defends him from Kenny. If no one found out that Lee was bitten before, she'll react shocked and angrily or saddened depending on whether she was romanced or not. If Carley only finds out about the bite at that moment, they will have a special moment together. If Ben was killed, Carley will be the fifth person to use the terrace to reach the building and ends up getting impaled, Lee comes down to try and save her and Kenny offers to put her out of her misery if Lee shot Duck for him, Carley tells Lee she loves him(if romanced) and says goodbye after asking Lee to put her out of her misery, otherwise Carley shoots herself. Kenny will give Lee his condolences and they'll exit to the roof and Christa will drop the radio which results in Kenny's disappearance. If Ben was saved, Carley will be stuck up in the building and she'll tell the group that she'll find another way out and tells them to continue looking for Clementine - this results in her disappearance, Lee can convince Carley to jump and that he'll catch her, if he does so, Christa will still drop the radio which will lead to Kenny's disappearance. Carley will offer to cross the bars before Lee and halfway across, she signals Lee to cross, not long after, the sign begins to fall and both Lee and Carley end up jumping off. Carley helps Lee fight the walker horde and allot of walkers go after her and Carley gets bitten before they make their way to the Marsh House. When they get inside, Carley decides to check the other rooms whilst Lee finds the right room. When Lee ends up fighting the stranger, Carley will come in and shoot him whilst he tries to strangle Lee. Lee can talk to Carley and talk about their predicament. Carley helps Lee rub walker gore on Clementine and herself. Carley helps Clementine drag Lee's body into the garage and Carley tries to calm Lee down when he wakes up, all of them are still too weak to open up the garage door, she helps Lee to walk but he still stumbles. She also helps Clementine deal with the walker by killing it for her. The three then say their final goodbyes. Lee can ask Carley to shoot him instead and she thanks him and kisses him for the final time(if romanced). Clementine exits with a bitten Carley. In the ending, Clementine is seen alone without Carley(hinting that Carley died or turned as she took Clementine to the countryside).
I'll share some of my own ideas I've been working on for quite a while now, although I'll just write down my Carley ideas since I might end … moreup writing too much xD
Carley
* S1E3 - If Lee had a good relationship with Lilly, he could calm her down and diffuse the situation preventing her from killing Carley. When the group reached the train, Carley would offer to help Lee look around the train and as they search train, Lee could ask Carley about her thoughts on there being a traitor, if she knows anything about trains, about her life pre-apocalypse and her thoughts on Lilly. When Chuck appears, Carley is startled and points her gun at him and asks him who he is. Carley then sits with the group and Lee can ask her about what she thinks of Chuck and more about her past life. If Lee doesn't find the animal crackers when the train starts, Carley will give them to Clementine. When Lee convinces Kenny to stop the train, Carley offers to shoot … [view original content]
To follow up on my earlier post, let's talk about Mr.Parker. Introduced escaping their dwindling camp alongside Travis and Ben Paul, Mr. David Parker is heard by Lee, Mark, and Kenny screaming after stepping into one of the St.John's beartraps. Deleted dialogue elaborates on both his original role in the story and his class's repeated encounters with the bandits, in which they witnessed a lot of traumatic events. In the final game, if Lee chops off his leg to get him out of the bear trap, Travis will get devoured by walkers and David will be brought back to the motor inn, where he bleeds to death and becomes the first non-bite victim to turn onscreen; if Lee doesn't help David, Travis will get angry and try to grab Mark's gun to save him, getting himself shot and forcing everyone to abandon David to be eaten.
I would've let him keep his original role and he would be found by Lee at the St. John's dairy if you left Mr. Parker behind in the bear trap, where he would be the one having both legs chopped off by Danny instead of Mark. It would've created a greater sense of continuity where a previously red shirt character would come back into the story just to nail home the twist involving the St. John's.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
To follow up on my earlier post, let's talk about Mr.Parker. Introduced escaping their dwindling camp alongside Travis and Ben Paul, Mr. Dav… moreid Parker is heard by Lee, Mark, and Kenny screaming after stepping into one of the St.John's beartraps. Deleted dialogue elaborates on both his original role in the story and his class's repeated encounters with the bandits, in which they witnessed a lot of traumatic events. In the final game, if Lee chops off his leg to get him out of the bear trap, Travis will get devoured by walkers and David will be brought back to the motor inn, where he bleeds to death and becomes the first non-bite victim to turn onscreen; if Lee doesn't help David, Travis will get angry and try to grab Mark's gun to save him, getting himself shot and forcing everyone to abandon David to be eaten.
I would've let him keep his original role and he would be found by Lee at the St. John's dairy if you left Mr. Parker behind in the … [view original content]
Well I would've had Doug and Ben survive the season. They were both great characters with a lot of potential for development.
Walter would've lived at least a couple episodes longer. His death felt like a waste. He could've had a friendship role with Kenny while slowly becoming at odds, it's at this point that he'd take Mike's role in the story. If he had to die then it'd be in EP5, maybe in Lukes death scene.
Luke just shouldn't have died.
Sarah/Carlos, one of them should've died and the other survived the season.
Ok, for the third time around, I'm gonna "generalize" my thoughts on Becca. For those unfamiliar with/who forgot the 400 Days characters, Becca is a supporting character in Shel's scenario. Shel is a character I tend to forget but her need to make sure her sister grows up right in a world like the Walking Dead's, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists. I mentioned in the 400 Days Longer Topic that I wish her story would have been longer. This would accomplish several things:
Develop her relationship with Stephanie so her "betrayal" means more and show how her dynamic with Becca changed over time.
Develop Roman a little more as well. Perhaps expanding on Dee's theft and ensuing karma while you're at it.
Also, show off the Cancer group a little more so we can get a better idea of who each of them are and why they ended up exchanging one tyrant for another.
Back on topic, Becca is listed on TVTropes as a Shadow Archetype: while Sarah and Jane seem to represent her innocent past and neutral/bitter future, she is Clementine at her brattiest and is quick to judge the mistakes, flaws, and wrong doings of others with overly harsh criticism and punishments. So, while Becca herself is also a character I can't say I particularly cared for, she is probably the 400 Days character who arguably deserved the most emphasis in Season 2. She fits the Evil/Nebulous child/teen archetype(alongside Sarah and maybe Michelle) that would have made her a neat adversary for Clementine to deal with. She(and/or Michelle, but I'll talk about her at a later date) seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attidude. She would most likely be determinately doomed to die at the hands of either Clementine(giving her/player a chance at payback), Troy(I guess because he likes hurting women, children, and women-children? Just throwing out ideas), Carver(To reinforce his villainy by having him kill someone who wholeheartedly supports him for being truly weak-willed), the Walkers(when they overrun Howe's Hardware, with the option of bringing her back later), or even Sarah(to show the breakdown of her character;YMMV on this one, though), but at least the 400 Days DLC would contribute a little more to Season 2's plot. At bare minimum, I feel like that would have been the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spo
When fan ideas might be actually better than the actual game.
This is great. You explained how the choices would affect the game and everything made sense(at least imo). Also you extended the characters stories,instead of killing them off when you need some shock value lol. (Esp Carley) Maybe TTG needs to look at this a learn a bit.
Surprised it took me so long to actually look at this thread, but Jesus, all of that is really top-notch and seriously would have taken some effort, so good on ya, Dan. Though there are some things I would disagree with, such as Lilly's far too early departure, Jane fleeing and Christa/Omid's fates in the game.
I personally believe that how Lilly leaves in the actual game is a fitting end for her. It showed how her father's death had affected her and driven her to a breaking point. Though I wouldn't have had her kill Carley/Doug either and personally, I loved how you handle both of those characters, but instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choice with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on the RV. Naturally if you do let her back on (she still steals the RV), Kenny and Lee's relationship will deteriorate heavily and Lee will be unable to talk Kenny around to stopping the train later, resulting in Duck actually turning and attempting to kill Clem (Lee saves her). Now if you left Lilly, the game remains the way it really is, excluding Katjaa's suicide, with Lee convincing Kenny to stop the train and putting Duck out of his misery.
EDIT: Anyway, I said I'd add more, so yeah...
I'd have kept Jane throughout the season and instead of having her actually be Kenny's rival, I'd have had Luke and Walter, who was never shot, be both Ken and Jane's opposites. Walter and Luke are pretty morally right characters, each of them holding onto hope in humanity and always willing to help, whist Jane/Kenny are more survivalist and to an extent, ruthless, willing to do what needs to be done to survive and removing of any threats. I'd also imagine Walt/Luke would be heavily against needless violence and revenge, unlike Kenny and Jane again, which is where much of their conflict would emerge. Somehow, I'd have had the group, consisting of Kenny, Jane, Luke, Walter, Clem, and Sarah split off from each other, due to conflicting ideas about how to handle Carver, who like in the original post, had been hunting them down. Clem will be forced to choose either going with Kenny/Jane, who want to enact revenge against Carver and his goons by killing them for what they've done, or by going with Luke/Walter, who instead want to find someplace safe for Sarah and stop with what they believe to be unnecessary violence. I know this idea is a little more muddled and may lack detail, but that's pretty much the basics of what I'd have done, instead of the whole Kenny vs Jane thing, as I liked both characters.
instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choice with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on the RV. Naturally if you do let her back on (she still steals the RV), Kenny and Lee's relationship will deteriorate heavily and Lee will be unable to talk Kenny around to stopping the train later, resulting in Duck actually turning and attempting to kill Clem (Lee saves her).
I never knew I wanted this until I read it.
Dan, your thread has illuminated the heads of the forum!
Surprised it took me so long to actually look at this thread, but Jesus, all of that is really top-notch and seriously would have taken some… more effort, so good on ya, Dan. Though there are some things I would disagree with, such as Lilly's far too early departure, Jane fleeing and Christa/Omid's fates in the game.
I personally believe that how Lilly leaves in the actual game is a fitting end for her. It showed how her father's death had affected her and driven her to a breaking point. Though I wouldn't have had her kill Carley/Doug either and personally, I loved how you handle both of those characters, but instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choice with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on th… [view original content]
instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choi… morece with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on the RV. Naturally if you do let her back on (she still steals the RV), Kenny and Lee's relationship will deteriorate heavily and Lee will be unable to talk Kenny around to stopping the train later, resulting in Duck actually turning and attempting to kill Clem (Lee saves her).
I never knew I wanted this until I read it.
Dan, your thread has illuminated the heads of the forum!
instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choi… morece with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on the RV. Naturally if you do let her back on (she still steals the RV), Kenny and Lee's relationship will deteriorate heavily and Lee will be unable to talk Kenny around to stopping the train later, resulting in Duck actually turning and attempting to kill Clem (Lee saves her).
I never knew I wanted this until I read it.
Dan, your thread has illuminated the heads of the forum!
Great post. I was a big fan of Becca and her potential in upcoming games, so I was a bit surprsied to see how much hate she was getting back then. Now obviously her determinant 10 second appearance in season 2 wasn't enough and I was a little angry that she didn't have more time. I agree that Becca might have been supportive of Carver and I think he would have respected her and tried to manipulate her.
Instead of having he killed by Carver or Troy, I would have brought her along with the escape plan and given her a friendship/rivalry to Clementine in the same ilk of what Kenny was to Lee in season 1. It would be great to see how they would influence each other and whether they would be friends or not If she was to die, I would have killed her in the shootout with the Russians, which would really send Clementine into anger or depression if they were close. This would also tell Jane that Clementine also wasn't absolved from falling apart/being broken like she stated about the group. This would add some more spice to the story imo. I was a big fan of Shel as well, so I would find a way to include her into the story.
Ok, for the third time around, I'm gonna "generalize" my thoughts on Becca. For those unfamiliar with/who forgot the 400 Days characters, Be… morecca is a supporting character in Shel's scenario. Shel is a character I tend to forget but her need to make sure her sister grows up right in a world like the Walking Dead's, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists. I mentioned in the 400 Days Longer Topic that I wish her story would have been longer. This would accomplish several things:
* Develop her relationship with Stephanie so her "betrayal" means more and show how her dynamic with Becca changed over time.
* Develop Roman a little more as well. Perhaps expanding on Dee's theft and ensuing karma while you're at it.
* Also, show off the Cancer group a little more so we can get a better idea of who each of them are and why they ended up exchanging one tyrant for another.
Back on topic,… [view original content]
So... One of my biggest disapointments on TellTale was The Walking Dead: Michonne's third episode, and I have this 13 page file on my computer where I wrote what I would change to make it a... not-so-linear episode.
I wanted to know if this thread is the right place to share my thoughts on it, @dan290786?
As you may know, I am not Dan, but I would recommend you to make a separate thread for it, since, you know, thirteen pages is a considerable amount, and the topic of Michonne's "What We Deserve" is different than Season One.
So... One of my biggest disapointments on TellTale was The Walking Dead: Michonne's third episode, and I have this 13 page file on my comput… moreer where I wrote what I would change to make it a... not-so-linear episode.
I wanted to know if this thread is the right place to share my thoughts on it, @dan290786?
Surprised it took me so long to actually look at this thread, but Jesus, all of that is really top-notch and seriously would have taken some… more effort, so good on ya, Dan. Though there are some things I would disagree with, such as Lilly's far too early departure, Jane fleeing and Christa/Omid's fates in the game.
I personally believe that how Lilly leaves in the actual game is a fitting end for her. It showed how her father's death had affected her and driven her to a breaking point. Though I wouldn't have had her kill Carley/Doug either and personally, I loved how you handle both of those characters, but instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choice with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on th… [view original content]
I'm sorry I almost skipped over your comment, mate; I honestly couldn't be bothered to read my own marathon of a post.
I would have brought her along with the escape plan and given her a friendship/rivalry to Clementine in the same ilk of what Kenny was to Lee in season 1
Now you would think this would've been an obvious idea, but I didn't think about it. Probably because I'm not very avid about Kenny or especially Becca.
I would have killed her in the shootout with the Russians, which would really send Clementine into anger or depression if they were close. This would also tell Jane that Clementine also wasn't absolved from falling apart/being broken like she stated about the group
Okay, this kinda ties into several things:
1. The reason these suggestions are usually so brief in scope are because I'm trying to work within the framework of what the final product implies could've or actually did happen. My eventual entry on Michelle may not be a trend breaker either. I plan on doing some more thorough suggestions in the future, but for right now, I'll just hit on general thoughts.
2.I don't wanna give certain characters too much prominence over others: that was one of my problems with Amid the Ruins and many other people's with Season 2 in general. With characters like Becca in particular, my goal is to fill out certain sections of the gametime and elements of the story that could've used more fleshing out, with Episode 3 being the standout example.
3. I teased possibly having her die in Episode 3 because a. having a much more important character do the deed would affect their character development and/or audience reaction(even if two of them die in the same episode), and b.I honestly didn't plan on having her do much else in the story at the point, so Bad!Lazy!Me, I guess. Plus, the idea of Clementine sparing what is essentially a very classist bully would not only reflect well on her moral character but also leave a thread open for Becca to return as a greater enemy/ally in the future.
4. While I'm sure the idea of the two becoming friends/rivals could've worked fine if someone (besides me, for various reasons) wrote it, it also kinda comes with quite a few hangups that I'll try to edit down as neatly as possible later.
5.This is entirely a me-thing but having would kinda make my "being nice" suggestion of how they could/should've killed off Sarah one page or two ago a little redundant, not to mention confusing for various reasons I won't go into because, again, all this text is confusing me at the moment. So, you might just have to request a reply on it.
6. Another me-thing, but nowhere near as biased/selfish/whatever is that I don't particularly care for Becca. Not outta legitimate hatred or pointless spite, its just that its been forever since I played the 400 Days DLC so I barely recall it and, even then, most of what I do didn't exactly leave a very positive impression of her as a person. However, like the Nick example I mentioned along with my Sarah entry, I am more than willing to investigate her character more in-depthly in the future so that I might come to better understand and appreciete her more. Especially since she doesn't have nearly as much screentime as even I would've liked.
I was a big fan of Shel as well, so I would find a way to include her into the story.
Oddly enough, I originally deleted part(see below) of that post that implied she and Becca had some sort of falling out offscreen just to put more focus on Becca herself. She would still be around in my true post's context, she just wouldn't show up very often(character establishing moment, some inbetween filler, preparing for the walker invasion later on, maybe nearby during Becca's death but I'd rather keep her from having to witness that because it would be too sad ).
(Here it is:I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I saw a comment somewhere stating that 400 Days takes place around the general timeframe that Season 1 did, which means it probably fits into the timeskip that Season 2 has in Episode 1. So, she could have been handwaved into the story by stating that things with Vince/Shel didn't work out and she eventually abandoned him/her in favor of joining Taavia at Howe's Hardware.)
Great post. I was a big fan of Becca and her potential in upcoming games, so I was a bit surprsied to see how much hate she was getting back… more then. Now obviously her determinant 10 second appearance in season 2 wasn't enough and I was a little angry that she didn't have more time. I agree that Becca might have been supportive of Carver and I think he would have respected her and tried to manipulate her.
Instead of having he killed by Carver or Troy, I would have brought her along with the escape plan and given her a friendship/rivalry to Clementine in the same ilk of what Kenny was to Lee in season 1. It would be great to see how they would influence each other and whether they would be friends or not If she was to die, I would have killed her in the shootout with the Russians, which would really send Clementine into anger or depression if they were close. This would also tell Jane that Clementine also wasn't absolved from falling apart/bei… [view original content]
2) Mate, I have thought about the issue of Becca having too much importance if things went down like this (especially if Clementine had any kind of strong reaction to her death) and that a lot of players would see it this way, but this is just my personal bias towards Becca and something that I would have liked to see. It could also spice things up/add to the drama if a character mostly loved by the fanbase (Clementine) befriended a character mostly hated by the fanbase (Becca).
3) I don't know if Becca would have pissed any important character off enough in episode 3 to get into a fight to the death with them (assuming she leaves with the group of course). Clementine murdering another human this early on might also be seen as a little extreme by some players.
4) Yeah there probably are some setbacks that I haven't thought about. It would be interesting to hear them.
5) I'm too lazy to read the whole thread back to page 1 right now so i'll just request a reply lol.
6) I too would have liked to see the character explored more. I like the idea of her relationship with Shel getting worse in season 2 and Shel getting more and more worried about Becca's behaviour and decision making. In 400 days she was more of an arrogant, over confident teenager than a bully in my opinion. The 10 second apparance in season 2 where she called Sarah a useless baby or whatever was probably more of an example of her bullying someone than anything in 400 days.
I'm sorry I almost skipped over your comment, mate; I honestly couldn't be bothered to read my own marathon of a post.
I would have br… moreought her along with the escape plan and given her a friendship/rivalry to Clementine in the same ilk of what Kenny was to Lee in season 1
Now you would think this would've been an obvious idea, but I didn't think about it. Probably because I'm not very avid about Kenny or especially Becca.
I would have killed her in the shootout with the Russians, which would really send Clementine into anger or depression if they were close. This would also tell Jane that Clementine also wasn't absolved from falling apart/being broken like she stated about the group
Okay, this kinda ties into several things:
1. The reason these suggestions are usually so brief in scope are because I'm trying to work within the framework of what the final product implies could've or actually did happen. My eventual… [view original content]
Ahh you see, i haven't nor will i ever play the michonne game which is why i did not include it in my post. Sounds interesting though @IronWoodLover. You should make a separate thread
So... One of my biggest disapointments on TellTale was The Walking Dead: Michonne's third episode, and I have this 13 page file on my comput… moreer where I wrote what I would change to make it a... not-so-linear episode.
I wanted to know if this thread is the right place to share my thoughts on it, @dan290786?
2) Mate, I have thought about the issue of Becca having too much importance if things went down like this (especially if Clementine had any kind of strong reaction to her death) and that a lot of players would see it this way, but this is just my personal bias towards Becca and something that I would have liked to see.
Gotcha. Perfectly understandable.
It could also spice things up/add to the drama if a character mostly loved by the fanbase (Clementine) befriended a character mostly hated by the fanbase (Becca).
3) I don't know if Becca would have pissed any important character off enough in episode 3 to get into a fight to the death with them (assuming she leaves with the group of course). Clementine murdering another human this early on might also be seen as a little extreme by some players.
While having Clementine(or maybe Sarah, but preferably the former) fight Becca is kinda the real goal, her death at the hands of Carver(or Troy, but again, preferably the former) would serve to underscore just how ruthless, intolerant, and hypocritical/picky the villain is. Having her preach(well, maybe not preach, but at least think highly of) his philosophy without a hint of irony only to be slaughtered for not living up to his exact expectations would just hammer this in.
...Admittedly, it would mostly serve as shock value with a scattered bonus.
4) Yeah there probably are some setbacks that I haven't thought about. It would be interesting to hear them.
a. One of Amid the Ruins main criticisms was that focused excessively on a handful of specific characters while demoting or killing off the rest. Unfortunately, Becca would most likely catch a bad middle ground
b. Jane is the focus of the episode: it functioned to establish her as an anti-hero who tries to discourage Clementine from become overly attached to the Howe's Ski Cabin Group. Having Becca around would mandate having to tag along with the two for her characterization to matter. While I admit that actually sounds pretty awesome, I don't know how much bullshit I could tolerate from dealing with these two at once. At the very least, Becca's previous bad attitude could make Jane look a smidge better in comparison.
c. Kenny is the tritagonist and, unlike some people, I actually appreciate the way he was implemented in this episode, since he is consistently off to the side until Clementine has an oppurtunity to check on him. Having Becca emulate his dynamic with Lee would make her feel like cheap imitation of him. You would exchange one evil for another poorman's version, especially in the eyes of Kensplainers, as I've seen them called.
d. Sarah is arguably the tertartagonist of the episode and this was the moment where her friendship with Clementine was supposed to payoff. This could provide a [potentially narmy] angel-devil set-up for Clementine: one stressed-out baby who doesn't talk enough and one judgemental brat who won't shut the hell up, with Jane occasionally acting as a more grounded rationale. Not gonna lie, it just brings my other ideas for the woman-child that much closer into being plausible: after all, Clementine is making not one, but two new friends who don't appeal to Sarah; Why shouldn't she just snap completely?
e. Bonnie could be used expand upon the 400 days group's backstory, but it's very unlikely since she and Mike are sidelined but appreciated comic relief in the episode. So, thats not gonna fly given what we've got. Unless you want to dig up old wounds and give people another reason to not like Becca(wow, this girl is just too popular).
f. Having Shel tag along would jack the character number up to 10(Clem+Kenny+Jane+Sarah+Bonnie+Mike+Luke+Arvo+Becca+Shel), not counting bit parts from Sarita, Nick, Buricko, and Vitali. So, if she was included, Shel would receive little to no screentime compared to everyone else, especially if she also ended up dying in the shootout. So, she might have to be left on the cutting room floor, which would piss off a lot of her fans and/or Becca's haters.
g. And now we get to the worst aspect of this limited set-up: the struggle of having Becca tagalong for the entire episode, only to die in the cliffhanger ending, would make her another Reggie: hyped up based on previous "good" will, only die in one episode. At the very least, she would see some character development, so there's that silver lining.
5) I'm too lazy to read the whole thread back to page 1 right now so i'll just request a reply lol.
Basically, I suggested that, in addition to what the game provided(yes, even the stupid loose plank death), Sarah have her left leg broken in the observation deck fall, motivating Jane to leave out of guilt, which (determinately) causes Clementine(and thus, the players) to finally go off on her for her failures or express appreciation that both of her friends get to keep living and trying. Sarah acknowledges that she needs to move on from Carlos's death and resolves to keep herself moving so as set a good example for AJ. Fast forward to the ending, where she is clearly keeping her promise despite her injury, where she keeps watch over Clementine and Rebecca, is anxious when the Russians come out (but is clearly trying to keep herself together for Clementine's sake), and, should Clementine stay silent when she notices Rebecca has turned, expresses facial disbelief before making her only onscreen kill. The next episode would begin the same as usual, with the visual implication that she tried to rush AJ to safety(which is why he's a few steps away from Rebecca's corpse) but didn't get very far at all before Buricko/Vitali riddled her. Clementine and Jane would have a brief moment to comment on her death(should she had passed on rather than dramatically stayed alive for a few final words) after the shootout before joining the others around Rebecca's corpse and the game goes on as usual.
The idea is that her gun training pays off in some way, she doesn't have to hurt anyone besides a walker, a not so similar contrast with Arvo(cracked glasses, set broken leg, protecting her motivator instead of having his motivator come fight for him), she has a not so different moment with Clementine(where she is shocked that Clementine froze up, but returns the previous good favors out of understanding), a bookend made of her positive traits(her loyalty to Clementine), and, as a bonus, the avoidance of a character derailment that makes Jane look like a consequence dodging sociopath.
6) I too would have liked to see the character explored more. I like the idea of her relationship with Becca getting worse in season 2 and Shel getting more and more worried about Becca's behaviour and decision making. In 400 days she was more of an arrogant, over confident teenager than a bully in my opinion. The 10 second apparance in season 2 where she called Sarah a useless baby or whatever was probably more of an example of her bullying someone than anything in 400 days.
I wanted to say more about Shel, but got so wrapped up in deconstructing what I remember about Becca to be able to, so moving on.... That cameo is the basis for the idea: Becca is cold and harsh towards those who go against the rules and can't deal with the pressures of the world(even though that arguably describes her). So, of course, she'd hate Sarah for having feelings and the Cabin Group for not gettin with the program. So, in the Cabin Group kills her scenario, she receives karma for giving the kids a hard time; in the Howe's Hardware kills her scenario, she receives "justice" for not measuring up despite her jingoism. However, in the much more preferable neutral scenario(where she still gets her ass kicked by a little girl and possibly even a woman-child), she wasn't strong enough to succeed over these troublemakers and thus would be driven to improve herself so that she can truly survive.
...I just realized I'm turning her into some Captain America related character.
2) Mate, I have thought about the issue of Becca having too much importance if things went down like this (especially if Clementine had any … morekind of strong reaction to her death) and that a lot of players would see it this way, but this is just my personal bias towards Becca and something that I would have liked to see. It could also spice things up/add to the drama if a character mostly loved by the fanbase (Clementine) befriended a character mostly hated by the fanbase (Becca).
3) I don't know if Becca would have pissed any important character off enough in episode 3 to get into a fight to the death with them (assuming she leaves with the group of course). Clementine murdering another human this early on might also be seen as a little extreme by some players.
4) Yeah there probably are some setbacks that I haven't thought about. It would be interesting to hear them.
5) I'm too lazy to read the whole thread back to page 1 right now … [view original content]
True, although I'd imagine if Lee wanted Lilly back on the RV, he'd probably make sure of it, considering he did pretty much decide everything and the rest of the group would most likely just agree with him. Like with the Ben thing, Kenny would just have to suck it up, I'd imagine. He'd also still be in a state of shock, anyway.
You really haven't played it, Dan? Can I ask for your reasons? I totally recommend you to try the first episode!
The overall story is interesting and compelling, in my own experience, and it handles determinant characters and interactions rather well. There is also a mysterious sub-plot that is central to "In Too Deep" that is partly resolved by the end.
Edit explanation: Missed an exclamation mark; added to last sentence.
Ahh you see, i haven't nor will i ever play the michonne game which is why i did not include it in my post. Sounds interesting though @IronWoodLover. You should make a separate thread
I've never been a huge fan of Michonne in the series or comics. I don't dislike/hate her though but she's just someone I've never took an interest to. The DLC of this annoyed me when i felt they should have made a DLC that would link Season 3 instead of a stand alone game like this. I also waited to hear reviews of the Michonne series and as i expected, people were saying how short each episode was and that the game itself had hardly improved since Season 2 and i'm not willing to pay money for that. This troubles me for the future of Telltale to be honest. I just don't think they will ever make a game as wonderful as Season 1 was.
I mentioned recently that i've just started TFTB for the first time. I am really enjoying the story but sadly not the gameplay. Also lack of hubs, character interactions, areas to explore feel boxed in etc, all are just as poor as Season 2 sadly and the length of the first episode was not too short but not long enough either in my opinion.
So yeah, nothing against Michonne but i much preferred a DLC that would benefit Season 3 rather than something that isn't that important to me. I mean you've heard this before but i think they should have made a DLC of what Clem and Christa got up to in the 16 month time gap, an explanation to how she lost her baby. Even if this DLC wasn't linked to Season 3, i think fans would have liked this more
You really haven't played it, Dan? Can I ask for your reasons? I totally recommend you to try the first episode!
The overall story is int… moreeresting and compelling, in my own experience, and it handles determinant characters and interactions rather well. There is also a mysterious sub-plot that is central to "In Too Deep" that is partly resolved by the end.
Edit explanation: Missed an exclamation mark; added to last sentence.
@BetterToSleep
Sure i'll tell you why.
I've never been a huge fan of Michonne in the series or comics. I don't dislike/hate her though… more but she's just someone I've never took an interest to. The DLC of this annoyed me when i felt they should have made a DLC that would link Season 3 instead of a stand alone game like this. I also waited to hear reviews of the Michonne series and as i expected, people were saying how short each episode was and that the game itself had hardly improved since Season 2 and i'm not willing to pay money for that. This troubles me for the future of Telltale to be honest. I just don't think they will ever make a game as wonderful as Season 1 was.
I mentioned recently that i've just started TFTB for the first time. I am really enjoying the story but sadly not the gameplay. Also lack of hubs, character interactions, areas to explore feel boxed in etc, all are just as poor as Season 2 sadly and the length of the f… [view original content]
I have actually watched the first michonne episode on youtube and it just didn't appeal to me at all i'm afraid. It makes me worry for season 3 but hopefully it will be better than season 2.
I have actually watched the first michonne episode on youtube and it just didn't appeal to me at all i'm afraid. It makes me worry for season 3 but hopefully it will be better than season 2.
Because the game developers probably rewrote it in order to make it seem like Jane wasn't trying to kill Kenny. I actually agree with this rewrite, during the first part of the fight Jane is seen trying to calm Kenny down and end the fight (when she guards her knife and when she tells him to 'Just go'). Having her sudenly wanting to murder him would be wierd and out of nowhere.
If this happened, I don't know if I could shoot her. If I couldn't, I'd definitely leave her, tho.
Okay, so I was skimming through older threads for ideas and/or clarification for my next topic when I found this:
Why. the hell. Wasn't this. In the Game?
Because the game developers probably rewrote it in order to make it seem like Jane wasn't trying to kill Kenny. I actually agree with this r… moreewrite, during the first part of the fight Jane is seen trying to calm Kenny down and end the fight (when she guards her knife and when she tells him to 'Just go'). Having her sudenly wanting to murder him would be wierd and out of nowhere.
If this happened, I don't know if I could shoot her. If I couldn't, I'd definitely leave her, tho.
Which is essentially what happens anyway, so again:Why wasn't that outcome also in the game?
No, it's not. Jane has no intentions of getting Kenny killed in the original game. She only seemed to have them later in the fight after being attacked many times.
why couldn't they also have the option to let Jane kill Kenny and then alternatively kill/leave her?
Because they decided to not follow that path when writting Jane. That would make Jane a sociopath and a murderer which would ruin her whole character (Jane was never presented as someone who would kill without very strong reasons, that's explored even in the begining of the episode) and would also ruin the whole moral conflict in the last choice.
She only seemed to have them later in the fight after being attacked many times.
Admittedly, this is what I should have said.
Because they decided to not follow that path when writing Jane. That would make Jane a sociopath and a murderer which would ruin her whole character (Jane was never presented as someone who would kill without very strong reasons, that's explored even in the beginning of the episode) and would also ruin the whole moral conflict in the last choice.
Well, too damn bad! Some people already think that and, unfortunately for Jane fans, it's one way her character and motivations can be interpreted.
As I stress numerous times despite my personal hatred for the character, Jane operated under the logic that if someone were to wrong her specifically, that justified wanting to kill them; it's part of the reason Jamie, Sarah, and Vitali's deaths actually disturbed her. Her plan basically revolved around ting Kenny and Clementine into thinking she let AJ die so that Kenny would attack her and thus, she could prove her point. When Kenny actually came after her with blood in mind, she started fighting back the first chance she got. She slashed his stomach with her knife when he tried it again, and actually chased after him when he regrouped.
Basically, she lost her cool and her plan to simply show how unstable he is became a mutual attempt to kill him. This fits in with her jaded moral code because, while it wasn't a part of her plan, he legitimately tried to kill her and the fact that they already had vitriolic views about each other didn't help. So, I always thought that scene was supposed to be about how despite their polar differences, they actually have a fair bit in common: both did questionable things as part of their good intentions to help Clementine and/or AJ and ended up wanting to kill each other when things got tough.
Which is essentially what happens anyway, so again:Why wasn't that outcome also in the game?
No, it's not. Jane has no intentions of… more getting Kenny killed in the original game. She only seemed to have them later in the fight after being attacked many times.
why couldn't they also have the option to let Jane kill Kenny and then alternatively kill/leave her?
Because they decided to not follow that path when writting Jane. That would make Jane a sociopath and a murderer which would ruin her whole character (Jane was never presented as someone who would kill without very strong reasons, that's explored even in the begining of the episode) and would also ruin the whole moral conflict in the last choice.
Okay, so I was skimming through older threads for ideas and/or clarification for my next topic when I found this:
Why. the hell. Wasn't this. In the Game?
If you choose to save Carley, Lee runs to the window where Doug is getting pulled through (thinking Carley can protect herself now that she has the ammo) and then Lee pulls Doug to safety away from the window.
Jane operated under the logic that if someone were to wrong her specifically, that justified wanting to kill them
No. She didn't. Saying 'I never killed someone who never wronged me in some way' (or something along those lines) is different than saying 'I murder everyone who wrongs me in some way'.
she started fighting back the first chance she got
Wrong. She first dodged Kenny's first punch and then guarded her knife. That's not attacking the first chance she gets.
She slashed his stomach with her knife when he tried it again, and actually chased after him when he regrouped.
She chased after him and said 'Just go' to which Kenny responds by 'I ain't going nowhere'.
I honestly don't think Jane's intentions were to get Kenny killed. Everything points that way.
My only point is making Jane be the one killing Kenny would lower the game's writting by screwing up her character and making the final conflict less interesting.
She only seemed to have them later in the fight after being attacked many times.
Admittedly, this is what I should have said.
… moreBecause they decided to not follow that path when writing Jane. That would make Jane a sociopath and a murderer which would ruin her whole character (Jane was never presented as someone who would kill without very strong reasons, that's explored even in the beginning of the episode) and would also ruin the whole moral conflict in the last choice.
Well, too damn bad! Some people already think that and, unfortunately for Jane fans, it's one way her character and motivations can be interpreted.
As I stress numerous times despite my personal hatred for the character, Jane operated under the logic that if someone were to wrong her specifically, that justified wanting to kill them; it's part of the reason Jamie, Sarah, and Vitali's deaths actually disturbed her. Her plan basically revolved around tin… [view original content]
Comments
I was saving this for my own personal topic at some point, but the first character that comes to is Sarah.
If I'm being nice by keeping most of how the story went in tact, the trailer part scene would remain almost exactly the same(sorry Nick fans, but I honestly can't think of what I'd do differently off the top of my head that the game at least tries to imply went down; I plan on doing some 'research' so I can try once again to better understand and appreciate his character some more before I make any big judgement calls around him), maybe a smidge more interaction with her during the baby delivery setup, and then her role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same. Whether she actually participates in the fight or not, when the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless. If we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense, she is buried under the rubble, just as before, and needs Jane to come help her. Here's where the differences come in:
You have two choices: Save Jane or Help Sarah. If you choose the former choice, the game carries on as it did except instead of glossing over her death scene (as I found out on my second playthrough), you actually see it like you do if you try to in the final game, minus Jane's involvement of course; this is basically to rub in the fact that you just gave up on Sarah and "killing one in order to save many is part of survival" and yadda x 3.
However, if you choose the latter choice, Jane can (determinately, if you want your previous choices to matter even more) successfully pull Sarah free, but when everything is said and done, you learn she hurt her left leg in the fall( you'll learn the symbolic reason why in a bit).
If were going with the determinate aspect, here's various reasons why she can still die: the board can fall and hits Jane square in the face (I know its still stupid, but I'm just keeping the idea it can debatably be no one's fault in tact), Sarah hits Jane in the shin which causes her to abandon Sarah (if your relationship with Sarah was negative/slightly worse compared to Jane), Jane loses her grip and has to move away when the walkers claw at her(if your relationship with Jane was negative/slightly worse compared to Sarah), Jane decides to simply kill Sarah (randomly dependent on how you got on her case earlier), or Sarah panically tells Jane to just go(randomly dependent on what you said to convince her earlier). Just random thoughts honestly.
Anyway, if you saved her again, Sarah is brought alongside Luke for exercise after Jane leaves. When Kenny and Luke get into their argument, Sarah pipes up towards the end (after Kenny sets Luke straight) and the players are given the opportunity to respond to her afterwards. If you were overly frustrated with her failures so far or the fact that Jane left out of guilt because of her, you get the chance to finally have Clementine go off on her. If you are a little more patient or accepting of her flaws, you can either bluntly reaffirm the whole "you have to try or no one is going to help" talk from earlier or kindly show that you're happy she gets the chance to live on. Either way, Sarah (either out of newfound personal resolve, understanding, or borderline tearful guilt, depending on your choices) states that she has somewhat accepted that Carlos is dead and that she is going to literally(ha ha) start pulling her own weight from now on. Especially now that she has to grow up and set an example for the baby.
However long it was later, we see the group walking down the snowy road as usual and we see that Sarah is keeping her promise: she is bringing up the rear due to her limp, with a gun and possibly another weapon visible on her, and her left leg is set in a makeshift caste that was clearly made over the course of an hour, if even that. When Arvo shows up, she mostly keeps quiet as usual, but she could probably ask if Arvo's friendly while you pick your choice. By the way, in case you haven't figured it out yet, her makeshift casted left leg is supposed to invoke a contrast with Arvo's metal braced right leg and make her his good couterpart: a broken left leg suggests a lack of self-sufficiency, while a broken right leg suggests a lack of confidence. When Arvo starts talking, we can see Sarah cautiously grab for her gun in the background depending on what you tell the group about Arvo (most likely with a nervous/uncertain look on her face to match Clementine's; because let's face it, Sarah's no action hero). When the Russians come out, she can be seen stepping closer to Clementine (preferably towards the back, between Luke and Kenny and opposite of Mike) with her gun drawn in Vitali's general direction, still nervous but clearly trying to keep calm for Clementine's sake.
When Rebecca turns and starts looking around, she can be seen near Clementine starting to go into her panic mode and glancing back and forth between Clementine and Rebecca. And then the final choice happens: if you choose shoot Rebecca, Clementine quickly does so; if you call for help, Kenny does the deed; however, if you do nothing, Sarah glances at Clementine one last time(similar to how she did when Clementine slapped her) and, with her hands clearly shaking, makes her only walker kill, as Buricko opens fire shortly afterwards.( By the way, the call for help or do nothing choices could easily be switched because they fulfill the same basic idea in the game proper. Also, sorry Kenny fans, but I did find it a bit odd and lazy that he's most likely the one to put down Rebecca and kill all three of the Russians.)
When No Turning Back begins, it plays out basically the same way, the only difference is that Sarah's bleeding body isn't too far away from where Rebecca and the baby are, with her arms/shoulders clearly pointed in its general direction. When the fight is done and over with, Clementine and Jane look over her corpse and you have a choice of what brief parting words you want to say. They then join the other group members around Rebecca, since neither of them say anything say much during this part. Luke or Bonnie can also have a comment or two lamenting that Sarah died like this. Its at this point when Bonnie promises Rebecca they'll take care of the baby and Kenny (a notoriously overzealous and protective family man) looks over towards Arvo. The basic idea is to have her gun training pay off, give Clementine a legitimate reason to determinately be angry with Arvo at this point, and also properly reinforcing what Carver and Jane were saying by having her die because that's just the way the people of the world works now.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
Thank you very much for the reply!
No prob, Bob! Threads like this are what I joined the forums for.
I must say that, from what I skimmed here cuz I'm a lazy foq, you got quite the vision on your sclera. Have you ever considered fanfiction?
Its just ideas I decided to share on how i think the games could have been improved on for example with season 2 i felt Christa and Omid were sadly very wasted and wanted to make sure in my vision that they had more of a role
Sorry, I haven't posted anything since the forum change.
eta: I haven't read your post yet. I will try to comment on it this weekend. Ive been kind of obsessively playing 7 Days to Die for weeks.
I'll share some of my own ideas I've been working on for quite a while now, although I'll just write down my Carley ideas since I might end up writing too much xD
Carley
Lee and Luke would be best friend for sure
@prink34320 thanks very much for your post! Loved those ideas
To follow up on my earlier post, let's talk about Mr.Parker. Introduced escaping their dwindling camp alongside Travis and Ben Paul, Mr. David Parker is heard by Lee, Mark, and Kenny screaming after stepping into one of the St.John's beartraps. Deleted dialogue elaborates on both his original role in the story and his class's repeated encounters with the bandits, in which they witnessed a lot of traumatic events. In the final game, if Lee chops off his leg to get him out of the bear trap, Travis will get devoured by walkers and David will be brought back to the motor inn, where he bleeds to death and becomes the first non-bite victim to turn onscreen; if Lee doesn't help David, Travis will get angry and try to grab Mark's gun to save him, getting himself shot and forcing everyone to abandon David to be eaten.
I would've let him keep his original role and he would be found by Lee at the St. John's dairy if you left Mr. Parker behind in the bear trap, where he would be the one having both legs chopped off by Danny instead of Mark. It would've created a greater sense of continuity where a previously red shirt character would come back into the story just to nail home the twist involving the St. John's.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
Thanks for your reply
Well I would've had Doug and Ben survive the season. They were both great characters with a lot of potential for development.
Walter would've lived at least a couple episodes longer. His death felt like a waste. He could've had a friendship role with Kenny while slowly becoming at odds, it's at this point that he'd take Mike's role in the story. If he had to die then it'd be in EP5, maybe in Lukes death scene.
Luke just shouldn't have died.
Sarah/Carlos, one of them should've died and the other survived the season.
Once again, I personally prefer to add new ideas as separate comments to help charitable threads like this blossom. So you're very welcome!
Ok, for the third time around, I'm gonna "generalize" my thoughts on Becca. For those unfamiliar with/who forgot the 400 Days characters, Becca is a supporting character in Shel's scenario. Shel is a character I tend to forget but her need to make sure her sister grows up right in a world like the Walking Dead's, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists. I mentioned in the 400 Days Longer Topic that I wish her story would have been longer. This would accomplish several things:
Develop her relationship with Stephanie so her "betrayal" means more and show how her dynamic with Becca changed over time.
Develop Roman a little more as well. Perhaps expanding on Dee's theft and ensuing karma while you're at it.
Also, show off the Cancer group a little more so we can get a better idea of who each of them are and why they ended up exchanging one tyrant for another.
Back on topic, Becca is listed on TVTropes as a Shadow Archetype: while Sarah and Jane seem to represent her innocent past and neutral/bitter future, she is Clementine at her brattiest and is quick to judge the mistakes, flaws, and wrong doings of others with overly harsh criticism and punishments. So, while Becca herself is also a character I can't say I particularly cared for, she is probably the 400 Days character who arguably deserved the most emphasis in Season 2. She fits the Evil/Nebulous child/teen archetype(alongside Sarah and maybe Michelle) that would have made her a neat adversary for Clementine to deal with. She(and/or Michelle, but I'll talk about her at a later date) seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attidude. She would most likely be determinately doomed to die at the hands of either Clementine(giving her/player a chance at payback), Troy(I guess because he likes hurting women, children, and women-children? Just throwing out ideas), Carver(To reinforce his villainy by having him kill someone who wholeheartedly supports him for being truly weak-willed), the Walkers(when they overrun Howe's Hardware, with the option of bringing her back later), or even Sarah(to show the breakdown of her character;YMMV on this one, though), but at least the 400 Days DLC would contribute a little more to Season 2's plot. At bare minimum, I feel like that would have been the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker, Chuck, Omid, Becca, Michelle, Nick, Alvin, Sarah, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph, and Natasha. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker, Chuck, Becca, Michelle, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spo
When fan ideas might be actually better than the actual game.
This is great. You explained how the choices would affect the game and everything made sense(at least imo). Also you extended the characters stories,instead of killing them off when you need some shock value lol. (Esp Carley) Maybe TTG needs to look at this a learn a bit.
Surprised it took me so long to actually look at this thread, but Jesus, all of that is really top-notch and seriously would have taken some effort, so good on ya, Dan. Though there are some things I would disagree with, such as Lilly's far too early departure, Jane fleeing and Christa/Omid's fates in the game.
I personally believe that how Lilly leaves in the actual game is a fitting end for her. It showed how her father's death had affected her and driven her to a breaking point. Though I wouldn't have had her kill Carley/Doug either and personally, I loved how you handle both of those characters, but instead I'd have her shot Katjaa, who attempted to push Ben away when Lilly was about to kill him. This would create a far more serious choice with regards to Kenny, who'd be shocked, devastated and enraged at what Lilly had done, and whether Lee would bring himself to allow Lilly, who does express genuine guilt for what she did, back on the RV. Naturally if you do let her back on (she still steals the RV), Kenny and Lee's relationship will deteriorate heavily and Lee will be unable to talk Kenny around to stopping the train later, resulting in Duck actually turning and attempting to kill Clem (Lee saves her). Now if you left Lilly, the game remains the way it really is, excluding Katjaa's suicide, with Lee convincing Kenny to stop the train and putting Duck out of his misery.
EDIT: Anyway, I said I'd add more, so yeah...
I'd have kept Jane throughout the season and instead of having her actually be Kenny's rival, I'd have had Luke and Walter, who was never shot, be both Ken and Jane's opposites. Walter and Luke are pretty morally right characters, each of them holding onto hope in humanity and always willing to help, whist Jane/Kenny are more survivalist and to an extent, ruthless, willing to do what needs to be done to survive and removing of any threats. I'd also imagine Walt/Luke would be heavily against needless violence and revenge, unlike Kenny and Jane again, which is where much of their conflict would emerge. Somehow, I'd have had the group, consisting of Kenny, Jane, Luke, Walter, Clem, and Sarah split off from each other, due to conflicting ideas about how to handle Carver, who like in the original post, had been hunting them down. Clem will be forced to choose either going with Kenny/Jane, who want to enact revenge against Carver and his goons by killing them for what they've done, or by going with Luke/Walter, who instead want to find someplace safe for Sarah and stop with what they believe to be unnecessary violence. I know this idea is a little more muddled and may lack detail, but that's pretty much the basics of what I'd have done, instead of the whole Kenny vs Jane thing, as I liked both characters.
I never knew I wanted this until I read it.
Dan, your thread has illuminated the heads of the forum!
Same here. It also makes Kenny's reaction in the schoolhouse even more wrenching in comparison.
Thanks as always for the replies!
Great post. I was a big fan of Becca and her potential in upcoming games, so I was a bit surprsied to see how much hate she was getting back then. Now obviously her determinant 10 second appearance in season 2 wasn't enough and I was a little angry that she didn't have more time. I agree that Becca might have been supportive of Carver and I think he would have respected her and tried to manipulate her.
Instead of having he killed by Carver or Troy, I would have brought her along with the escape plan and given her a friendship/rivalry to Clementine in the same ilk of what Kenny was to Lee in season 1. It would be great to see how they would influence each other and whether they would be friends or not If she was to die, I would have killed her in the shootout with the Russians, which would really send Clementine into anger or depression if they were close. This would also tell Jane that Clementine also wasn't absolved from falling apart/being broken like she stated about the group. This would add some more spice to the story imo. I was a big fan of Shel as well, so I would find a way to include her into the story.
So... One of my biggest disapointments on TellTale was The Walking Dead: Michonne's third episode, and I have this 13 page file on my computer where I wrote what I would change to make it a... not-so-linear episode.
I wanted to know if this thread is the right place to share my thoughts on it, @dan290786?
As you may know, I am not Dan, but I would recommend you to make a separate thread for it, since, you know, thirteen pages is a considerable amount, and the topic of Michonne's "What We Deserve" is different than Season One.
Kenny would have probably made sure that Lilly wasn't breathing if she had killed Katjaa like that, much less allowing her back on his RV.
I'm sorry I almost skipped over your comment, mate; I honestly couldn't be bothered to read my own marathon of a post.
Now you would think this would've been an obvious idea, but I didn't think about it. Probably because I'm not very avid about Kenny or especially Becca.
Okay, this kinda ties into several things:
1. The reason these suggestions are usually so brief in scope are because I'm trying to work within the framework of what the final product implies could've or actually did happen. My eventual entry on Michelle may not be a trend breaker either. I plan on doing some more thorough suggestions in the future, but for right now, I'll just hit on general thoughts.
2.I don't wanna give certain characters too much prominence over others: that was one of my problems with Amid the Ruins and many other people's with Season 2 in general. With characters like Becca in particular, my goal is to fill out certain sections of the gametime and elements of the story that could've used more fleshing out, with Episode 3 being the standout example.
3. I teased possibly having her die in Episode 3 because a. having a much more important character do the deed would affect their character development and/or audience reaction(even if two of them die in the same episode), and b.I honestly didn't plan on having her do much else in the story at the point, so Bad!Lazy!Me, I guess. Plus, the idea of Clementine sparing what is essentially a very classist bully would not only reflect well on her moral character but also leave a thread open for Becca to return as a greater enemy/ally in the future.
4. While I'm sure the idea of the two becoming friends/rivals could've worked fine if someone (besides me, for various reasons) wrote it, it also kinda comes with quite a few hangups that I'll try to edit down as neatly as possible later.
5.This is entirely a me-thing but having would kinda make my "being nice" suggestion of how they could/should've killed off Sarah one page or two ago a little redundant, not to mention confusing for various reasons I won't go into because, again, all this text is confusing me at the moment. So, you might just have to request a reply on it.
6. Another me-thing, but nowhere near as biased/selfish/whatever is that I don't particularly care for Becca. Not outta legitimate hatred or pointless spite, its just that its been forever since I played the 400 Days DLC so I barely recall it and, even then, most of what I do didn't exactly leave a very positive impression of her as a person. However, like the Nick example I mentioned along with my Sarah entry, I am more than willing to investigate her character more in-depthly in the future so that I might come to better understand and appreciete her more. Especially since she doesn't have nearly as much screentime as even I would've liked.
Oddly enough, I originally deleted part(see below) of that post that implied she and Becca had some sort of falling out offscreen just to put more focus on Becca herself. She would still be around in my true post's context, she just wouldn't show up very often(character establishing moment, some inbetween filler, preparing for the walker invasion later on, maybe nearby during Becca's death but I'd rather keep her from having to witness that because it would be too sad
).
(Here it is:I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I saw a comment somewhere stating that 400 Days takes place around the general timeframe that Season 1 did, which means it probably fits into the timeskip that Season 2 has in Episode 1. So, she could have been handwaved into the story by stating that things with Vince/Shel didn't work out and she eventually abandoned him/her in favor of joining Taavia at Howe's Hardware.)
2) Mate, I have thought about the issue of Becca having too much importance if things went down like this (especially if Clementine had any kind of strong reaction to her death) and that a lot of players would see it this way, but this is just my personal bias towards Becca and something that I would have liked to see. It could also spice things up/add to the drama if a character mostly loved by the fanbase (Clementine) befriended a character mostly hated by the fanbase (Becca).
3) I don't know if Becca would have pissed any important character off enough in episode 3 to get into a fight to the death with them (assuming she leaves with the group of course). Clementine murdering another human this early on might also be seen as a little extreme by some players.
4) Yeah there probably are some setbacks that I haven't thought about. It would be interesting to hear them.
5) I'm too lazy to read the whole thread back to page 1 right now so i'll just request a reply lol.
6) I too would have liked to see the character explored more. I like the idea of her relationship with Shel getting worse in season 2 and Shel getting more and more worried about Becca's behaviour and decision making. In 400 days she was more of an arrogant, over confident teenager than a bully in my opinion. The 10 second apparance in season 2 where she called Sarah a useless baby or whatever was probably more of an example of her bullying someone than anything in 400 days.
Ahh you see, i haven't nor will i ever play the michonne game which is why i did not include it in my post. Sounds interesting though @IronWoodLover. You should make a separate thread
Gotcha. Perfectly understandable.
Like they should'a did with Arvo...!
While having Clementine(or maybe Sarah, but preferably the former) fight Becca is kinda the real goal, her death at the hands of Carver(or Troy, but again, preferably the former) would serve to underscore just how ruthless, intolerant, and hypocritical/picky the villain is. Having her preach(well, maybe not preach, but at least think highly of) his philosophy without a hint of irony only to be slaughtered for not living up to his exact expectations would just hammer this in.
...Admittedly, it would mostly serve as shock value with a scattered bonus.
a. One of Amid the Ruins main criticisms was that focused excessively on a handful of specific characters while demoting or killing off the rest. Unfortunately, Becca would most likely catch a bad middle ground
b. Jane is the focus of the episode: it functioned to establish her as an anti-hero who tries to discourage Clementine from become overly attached to the Howe's Ski Cabin Group. Having Becca around would mandate having to tag along with the two for her characterization to matter. While I admit that actually sounds pretty awesome, I don't know how much bullshit I could tolerate from dealing with these two at once. At the very least, Becca's previous bad attitude could make Jane look a smidge better in comparison.
c. Kenny is the tritagonist and, unlike some people, I actually appreciate the way he was implemented in this episode, since he is consistently off to the side until Clementine has an oppurtunity to check on him. Having Becca emulate his dynamic with Lee would make her feel like cheap imitation of him. You would exchange one evil for another poorman's version, especially in the eyes of Kensplainers, as I've seen them called.
d. Sarah is arguably the tertartagonist of the episode and this was the moment where her friendship with Clementine was supposed to payoff. This could provide a [potentially narmy] angel-devil set-up for Clementine: one stressed-out baby who doesn't talk enough and one judgemental brat who won't shut the hell up, with Jane occasionally acting as a more grounded rationale. Not gonna lie, it just brings my other ideas for the woman-child that much closer into being plausible: after all, Clementine is making not one, but two new friends who don't appeal to Sarah; Why shouldn't she just snap completely?
e. Bonnie could be used expand upon the 400 days group's backstory, but it's very unlikely since she and Mike are sidelined but appreciated comic relief in the episode. So, thats not gonna fly given what we've got. Unless you want to dig up old wounds and give people another reason to not like Becca(wow, this girl is just too popular).
f. Having Shel tag along would jack the character number up to 10(Clem+Kenny+Jane+Sarah+Bonnie+Mike+Luke+Arvo+Becca+Shel), not counting bit parts from Sarita, Nick, Buricko, and Vitali. So, if she was included, Shel would receive little to no screentime compared to everyone else, especially if she also ended up dying in the shootout. So, she might have to be left on the cutting room floor, which would piss off a lot of her fans and/or Becca's haters.
g. And now we get to the worst aspect of this limited set-up: the struggle of having Becca tagalong for the entire episode, only to die in the cliffhanger ending, would make her another Reggie: hyped up based on previous "good" will, only die in one episode. At the very least, she would see some character development, so there's that silver lining.
Basically, I suggested that, in addition to what the game provided(yes, even the stupid loose plank death), Sarah have her left leg broken in the observation deck fall, motivating Jane to leave out of guilt, which (determinately) causes Clementine(and thus, the players) to finally go off on her for her failures or express appreciation that both of her friends get to keep living and trying. Sarah acknowledges that she needs to move on from Carlos's death and resolves to keep herself moving so as set a good example for AJ. Fast forward to the ending, where she is clearly keeping her promise despite her injury, where she keeps watch over Clementine and Rebecca, is anxious when the Russians come out (but is clearly trying to keep herself together for Clementine's sake), and, should Clementine stay silent when she notices Rebecca has turned, expresses facial disbelief before making her only onscreen kill. The next episode would begin the same as usual, with the visual implication that she tried to rush AJ to safety(which is why he's a few steps away from Rebecca's corpse) but didn't get very far at all before Buricko/Vitali riddled her. Clementine and Jane would have a brief moment to comment on her death(should she had passed on rather than dramatically stayed alive for a few final words) after the shootout before joining the others around Rebecca's corpse and the game goes on as usual.
The idea is that her gun training pays off in some way, she doesn't have to hurt anyone besides a walker, a not so similar contrast with Arvo(cracked glasses, set broken leg, protecting her motivator instead of having his motivator come fight for him), she has a not so different moment with Clementine(where she is shocked that Clementine froze up, but returns the previous good favors out of understanding), a bookend made of her positive traits(her loyalty to Clementine), and, as a bonus, the avoidance of a character derailment that makes Jane look like a consequence dodging sociopath.
I wanted to say more about Shel, but got so wrapped up in deconstructing what I remember about Becca to be able to, so moving on.... That cameo is the basis for the idea: Becca is cold and harsh towards those who go against the rules and can't deal with the pressures of the world(even though that arguably describes her). So, of course, she'd hate Sarah for having feelings and the Cabin Group for not gettin with the program. So, in the Cabin Group kills her scenario, she receives karma for giving the kids a hard time; in the Howe's Hardware kills her scenario, she receives "justice" for not measuring up despite her jingoism. However, in the much more preferable neutral scenario(where she still gets her ass kicked by a little girl and possibly even a woman-child), she wasn't strong enough to succeed over these troublemakers and thus would be driven to improve herself so that she can truly survive.
...I just realized I'm turning her into some Captain America related character.
True, although I'd imagine if Lee wanted Lilly back on the RV, he'd probably make sure of it, considering he did pretty much decide everything and the rest of the group would most likely just agree with him. Like with the Ben thing, Kenny would just have to suck it up, I'd imagine. He'd also still be in a state of shock, anyway.
EDIT: Tidied it up.
You really haven't played it, Dan? Can I ask for your reasons? I totally recommend you to try the first episode!
The overall story is interesting and compelling, in my own experience, and it handles determinant characters and interactions rather well. There is also a mysterious sub-plot that is central to "In Too Deep" that is partly resolved by the end.
Edit explanation: Missed an exclamation mark; added to last sentence.
@BetterToSleep
Sure i'll tell you why.
I've never been a huge fan of Michonne in the series or comics. I don't dislike/hate her though but she's just someone I've never took an interest to. The DLC of this annoyed me when i felt they should have made a DLC that would link Season 3 instead of a stand alone game like this. I also waited to hear reviews of the Michonne series and as i expected, people were saying how short each episode was and that the game itself had hardly improved since Season 2 and i'm not willing to pay money for that. This troubles me for the future of Telltale to be honest. I just don't think they will ever make a game as wonderful as Season 1 was.
I mentioned recently that i've just started TFTB for the first time. I am really enjoying the story but sadly not the gameplay. Also lack of hubs, character interactions, areas to explore feel boxed in etc, all are just as poor as Season 2 sadly and the length of the first episode was not too short but not long enough either in my opinion.
So yeah, nothing against Michonne but i much preferred a DLC that would benefit Season 3 rather than something that isn't that important to me. I mean you've heard this before but i think they should have made a DLC of what Clem and Christa got up to in the 16 month time gap, an explanation to how she lost her baby. Even if this DLC wasn't linked to Season 3, i think fans would have liked this more
That's a good point.
Wouldn't you be interested in watching a no-commentary playthrough?
I have actually watched the first michonne episode on youtube and it just didn't appeal to me at all i'm afraid. It makes me worry for season 3 but hopefully it will be better than season 2.
Oh, that's a shame.
Okay, so I was skimming through older threads for ideas and/or clarification for my next topic when I found this:
Why. the hell. Wasn't this. In the Game?
Because the game developers probably rewrote it in order to make it seem like Jane wasn't trying to kill Kenny. I actually agree with this rewrite, during the first part of the fight Jane is seen trying to calm Kenny down and end the fight (when she guards her knife and when she tells him to 'Just go'). Having her sudenly wanting to murder him would be wierd and out of nowhere.
If this happened, I don't know if I could shoot her. If I couldn't, I'd definitely leave her, tho.
[removed]
No, it's not. Jane has no intentions of getting Kenny killed in the original game. She only seemed to have them later in the fight after being attacked many times.
Because they decided to not follow that path when writting Jane. That would make Jane a sociopath and a murderer which would ruin her whole character (Jane was never presented as someone who would kill without very strong reasons, that's explored even in the begining of the episode) and would also ruin the whole moral conflict in the last choice.
Admittedly, this is what I should have said.
Well, too damn bad! Some people already think that and, unfortunately for Jane fans, it's one way her character and motivations can be interpreted.
As I stress numerous times despite my personal hatred for the character, Jane operated under the logic that if someone were to wrong her specifically, that justified wanting to kill them; it's part of the reason Jamie, Sarah, and Vitali's deaths actually disturbed her. Her plan basically revolved around ting Kenny and Clementine into thinking she let AJ die so that Kenny would attack her and thus, she could prove her point. When Kenny actually came after her with blood in mind, she started fighting back the first chance she got. She slashed his stomach with her knife when he tried it again, and actually chased after him when he regrouped.
Basically, she lost her cool and her plan to simply show how unstable he is became a mutual attempt to kill him. This fits in with her jaded moral code because, while it wasn't a part of her plan, he legitimately tried to kill her and the fact that they already had vitriolic views about each other didn't help. So, I always thought that scene was supposed to be about how despite their polar differences, they actually have a fair bit in common: both did questionable things as part of their good intentions to help Clementine and/or AJ and ended up wanting to kill each other when things got tough.
It should been like this tbh.
If you choose to save Carley, Lee runs to the window where Doug is getting pulled through (thinking Carley can protect herself now that she has the ammo) and then Lee pulls Doug to safety away from the window.
That way, both Carley and Doug would be saved.
No. She didn't. Saying 'I never killed someone who never wronged me in some way' (or something along those lines) is different than saying 'I murder everyone who wrongs me in some way'.
Wrong. She first dodged Kenny's first punch and then guarded her knife. That's not attacking the first chance she gets.
She chased after him and said 'Just go' to which Kenny responds by 'I ain't going nowhere'.
I honestly don't think Jane's intentions were to get Kenny killed. Everything points that way.
My only point is making Jane be the one killing Kenny would lower the game's writting by screwing up her character and making the final conflict less interesting.