You sure write a lot of words trying to find some logic in Jane's selfish actions
Too much words for you my dear? Call someone to read them for you if you're so fucking overwhelmed. I'll type the fuck out of my points of views on her character how much you want. I doubt you'll ever even have the fucking decency to actually read and take them into consideration, but here we fucking go.
please answer a very simple question which Janiacs always fail to answer or just ignore in general:
Why the fuck didn't she just tell Kenny AJ was alive when he started to charge at him? Surely that was enough to show Clem that he was a walking time bomb.Surely that was enough to show Clem that he was a walking time bomb.
Oh! You mean the fucking question that I've been answering for months now? You might want to rethink that statement son.
You know, Jane was probably going to say that AJ was alive right after she sheathed her weapon, but you know what happens next, right? Kenny the-fucking-saint attacked her again. And again. And again. And she fucking retaliated. Wowser. Someone retaliating after being attacked for literally nothing? How motherfucking shocking! The adrenaline and anger of the moment made Jane want to fucking hurt Kenny and rightfully so since he had just been attacking her based on a fucking hunch!
The moment Kenny attacked her after she sheathed her knife it got personal.
What did she expect Clem to think?
"Oh Jane was right, Kenny is a ticking time bomb and will one day kill me and AJ. I mean, it's not like I'm the last living reminder of his family and it's not like he tried to protect me (in S2 and S1 determinantly) all this time. I mean, he tried to kill someone who murdered a baby! Is he crazy?! Good thing I now have Jane to look after me and AJ. The girl who doesn't like liabilities... tried to convince me to leave Sarah and showed great hesitation to the idea of looking after a baby in the ZA, and didn't even wont to hold something as rare and special as a baby. "What are you gonna do with it", ummm... she may see this baby more like an object than a human being. Well good thing Jane forced me to kill the last person who connected me with my past, my family and Lee, just like how she forced me to kill Nick and (determinantly) Sarah.
Ohh, yeah. A baseless witty and sarcastic comment pulled straight out of your ass. Add some fucking base to you claims. But let's go into it, shall we?
Oh Jane was right, Kenny is a ticking time bomb and will one day kill me and AJ.
No. She wanted Clem to know that Kenny was dangerous and broken. Broken beyond repair. He was beating a fucking kid that had just lost everyone he knew about. He broke the whole fucking group by trying to be a demented dictator that didn't listen to everyone else's opinions and wanted to decide the fate of people for themselves. A man that was capable of committing homicide based on a fucking hunch! That's what Jane was trying to prove.
I mean, it's not like I'm the last living reminder of his family
Oh, Booooh Whooo! Poor Keny lost his family and now is trying to use Clem as replacement! It doesn't give him the fucking right to be a psychopath.
he tried to protect me (in S2 and S1 determinantly) all this time.
Yeah, 'all the time'. Unless you don't kill Ben. Because if you don't fucking murder Ben, Clementine's safety becomes worthless to Kenny ; ). But let's omit that right?
I mean, he tried to kill someone who murdered a baby! Is he crazy?!
Honestly I've stopped taking you seriously. Jane claimed that it was a fucking accident! The 'murder' came from Kenny's sick fucking head. You're the type of Kenny fan who can't even admit it. Ridiculous.
Good thing I now have Jane to look after me and AJ. The girl who doesn't like liabilities...
The girl who protected the liabilities*. FTFY. WHo saved Clem and Rebecca from the herd? Who stayed down in the RV until Clem, Sarah and Luke are safe? Who found the place for Rebecca's baby be born? Who was willing to steal to ensure Rebecca a more comfortable labour? Who went down to try and save Sarah in the observation deck? Who saved Kenny from Vitali? Who was trying to fix Kenny at the begining of 'No Going Back'? Who saved Clem from the ice lake? Who was mostly concerned for AJ's and the group's stability when formulating a plan? Ask yourself those questions and then tell me who actually helped the liabilities in this game. Obviously not Kenny who was too worried crying like a fucking baby in a tent and beating kids.
tried to convince me to leave Sarah
She didn't try to make you 'leave Sarah'. She was trying to make Clem not fucking commit suicide. Zombies were breaking in. Realistically, Clem, Sarah and Jane would've all died if not for fucking plot armour and plot convinience.
showed great hesitation to the idea of looking after a baby in the ZA
Yet did more than anyone else to ensure that baby's safety.
and didn't even wont to hold something as rare and special as a baby.
So? I don't feel comfortable holding my baby cousin. Does that make me hate him?
Well good thing Jane forced me to kill the last person who connected me with my past, my family and Lee
Keny forced you into that position. It wasn't Jane who started the fucking fight. It was your lord and savior Kenny. Jane tried to end the fight many times.
just like how she forced me to kill Nick and (determinantly) Sarah.
Wait, what? She told you to put your zombie friend out of his misery and that's a bad thing? The fuck?
And yet again, she did make you kill Sarah. She was trying to make you go up so you wouldn't get fucking killed. Sarah was static there wasn't time for psychological counseling. People have to understand that.
The thing with Jane fans is that, unlike Kenny fans, they can't admit their character has major flaws.
How hypocritical of you. You don't even recognize that what Kenny was doing was murder and I'm the one refusing to see the flaws? Spoiler alert, I think Jane has flaws and you're not in my fucking mind t make such claims about me. And generalizing the whole Jane fanbase isn't also very wise.
Have a good fucking day, I won't respond to youtube-like comments from you anymore.
Extra Kudos? Oh geez thanks BetterToSleep! You can see why now i feel ganged up on with comments like that. But hey i get it, you agree with him naturally so fucks to what i say lol. I know that wasn't your intention but still...
Calm down man! I don't think even i've raged this much and that's saying something lol. But i have to say your true opinions of Kenny really came out of that post and i hated every word you said. At least now i know how you truly feel.
Hi, Daze.
You sure write a lot of words trying to find some logic in Jane's selfish actions
Too much words for you my dear? Ca… morell someone to read them for you if you're so fucking overwhelmed. I'll type the fuck out of my points of views on her character how much you want. I doubt you'll ever even have the fucking decency to actually read and take them into consideration, but here we fucking go.
please answer a very simple question which Janiacs always fail to answer or just ignore in general:
Why the fuck didn't she just tell Kenny AJ was alive when he started to charge at him? Surely that was enough to show Clem that he was a walking time bomb.Surely that was enough to show Clem that he was a walking time bomb.
Oh! You mean the fucking question that I've been answering for months now? You might want to rethink that statement son.
You know, Jane was probably going to say that AJ was alive right after she … [view original content]
Then why did she say that 'it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery' deliberatly to Clem? If she really wanted to look like the saint there she'd never said that.
at least you admitted that she wanted to hurt Kenny after saying that line lol
Did you ever consider that Jane did all that because it was in front of Clementine and didn't want her to think that she wanted to kill him?… more
Then why did she say that 'it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery' deliberatly to Clem? If she really wanted to look like the saint there she'd never said that.
And yet again, if she really thought that Kenny was going to take the fight any further she would never sheathe her knife.
And finally, when she says 'Just go' they both don't even seem aware of Clem's presence.
That part of my original comment was pointing out how you go off tangents and write loads and loads just to scrape a valid arguement for defending Jane.
Oh, I'm the one going off tangents here. I'm really the only one who keeps repeating the same points over and over again. You and the rest of the Kenny fans in this forum never do that!
I'm defending my point of view on her and Kenny characters and their actions. As I've said I've been writting these very same points since January, yet you came here and asked a question that I've answered a milion times and then you complain about me going off tangents?
Well I haven't been that active over the past few months due to my exams and holiday. Maybe I haven't read every comment you've typed?
Then perhaps you shouldn't have said that no Janiac could answer it?
So you're telling me Jane can't fight and say 3 simple words at the same time? Did the whole world have to be silent for her to say "AJ is alive"? What kind of a survivalist cant multitask?
Jane sheathes her knife -> Kenny relaxes -> Jane prepares to say that AJ is alive -> Kenny attacks her once again -> Jane gets angry and irrational and wants to hurt Kenny too, giving up on her plan -> Jane and Kenny both madly fight eachother. Is that simple enough?
'But when he was with the knife above her neck, why didn't she say so?' Because if so, he'd get even more pissed.
If Jane was really the victim here and against this monster Kenny, she would have told him AJ was alive as she was so desparate to stay alive.
I'm not saying that Jane is just a mere 'victim'. She was attacking too and she undirectly caused the fight.
Adrenaline raises your heart rate and awareness. It doesn't make you angry.
Wierd, I don't remember even saying that adrenaline made anyone angry... I said that the adrenaline and anger of the moment made her act. You're capable of having adrenaline and being angry at the same time. Distorcion of words.
Jane just wanted to hurt him mentally (oh lets just make fun of his dead family), then physically (lets just scratch is badly wounded eye) afterwards.
Yet again, you omit Kenny's side on that. Remember when he said that she was 'nothing'? That she didn't care about anyone else? And that no-one else cared about her? Yep, he said it first and Jane retaliated.
And Kenny totally didn't beat Jane before she scratched his eye!
When the majority of the evidence points in a certain direction, it becomes more of a logical guess than a hunch.
What 'evidence', Daze? No more avoiding this question. Tell me what 'evidence' Kenny had.
Even though Clem already knew that?
'Clem, we could leave, right now.'
'What about AJ?'
'Kenny would never let him go...'
The game doesn't give Clem the option to tell Jane that she wanted to go and that she knew that Kenny was broken. Every character though of Clem as Kenny best friend who would never let him go. That's the reason why Mike and Bonnie didn't invite her to come with them. They thought she'd tell Kenny. And I can't blame them. You're forced to bond with Kenny. Force to talk to him many times. And rarely can express distrust or any negative feeling towards him to other characters.
Oh, Arvo lost everyone he cared about? Are we meant to let him off now? I mean, it's fine as long as it's not Kenny, right?
Yes, we are. What good was beating him was gonna do? Take Arvo to the edge? Make another kid watch extreme violence? What if Kenny hadn't beaten Arvo? Would Mike and Bonnie leave? Would Arvo shoot Clem? It was cruel Daze, do you really think it wasn't? Do you think that kid that had already lost so much deserved to be punished even more? Wasn't loosing everything enough?
No. The majority of the group died, most of the time their deaths were only cause indirectly by Kenny all or not by him at all. However, all the deaths in this game were indirectly caused by someone (eg. Duck indirectly caused Carley to die). Mike, Arvo and Bonnie left cause they didn't like Kenny, yes, but that's only 2 people (at the least) compared to the massive group at the start. In fact, Arvo isn't really part of the group. So at most Kenny drove broke apart 2 people from the group. "whole fucking group".
Oh, you know what I meant! He broke No Going Back's group with his insistence on trying to decide everyone's fate. Sorry if that wasn't clear wnough for you.
Pretty sure he asked people what to do, and followed everyone if they decided to stay the night. It's rather sad and humorous you use such terrible imagery for Kenny aha..
What? He asked? 'I got the truck working and I say where we go! And we're heading fucking North!' Refresh my memory. When did Kenny ask for the group's opinion?
Um about everyone knows? One of the main arguements against Jane?
Well, I didn't know that Kenny was capable of such thing until Jane demonstrated it. And what do you mean with the last sentence?
THERE WE HAVE IT! So hypocritical it's funny. Anyway, you have used this arguement before and I beat it, so I can't be bothered to write it all out again. Bottom line is: Jane and Kenny aren't as different as you think. In fact, if you separate Kenny's name with Jane's in the quote above, your sentence would still make sense.
Ok Daze, understand this.
1. One thing is 'I lost my family, so I have the right to beat kids, scream at kids, being useless when the group most needs me, not listening to anyone else's minds and commit murder.'
2. Another thing is 'I lost my sister so I'm going to leave the group in order to not get emotionally hurt without compromising anyone else's wellbeing and safety.'
Like dude, I literally wrote the word determinantly in my comment; not killing Ben is determinant. Are you sure you can read all those words?
Like, dude, I literally quoted 'all the time' which was obviously false since as you said it's determinant ; ). And no defending Kenny's actions on this one? What a shame!
You shouldn't
[sigh] you're right, actually. I shouldn't.
Wow she doesn't just lie with Luke. Kenny didn't believe Jane cos it seemed like she was saying random things to calm him down as she was scared for her life? By stating it was an accident, she's trying to make it seem as if the fault isn't hers and he should leave her alone.
Jane said it was an accident, Kenny didn't believe it because he created a suposed murder in his head and because of the anger issues he has. There's nothing else to it.
Ironic how you say that but you keep on swearing. Like I said before, anyone with common sense thought Jane could have killed him; logical guess in the heat of the moment.
I'll wait patiently for that suposed line of reasoning that makes it so logic that Jane murdered an infant (which she didn't! Lol!). I'm allowed to swear. I was pretty fucking triggered at the moment.
To be fair, I can admit Kenny went full pyscho.
'Good'.
You can't admit Jane hurt a fly.
Again, don't make such claims about me for fuck sake. How would you know that I think that? Tyi, I don't picture Jane as some saint that did nothing wrong. I condemn her in some aspects.
Did Jane have a choice?
Well, yeah!? She had no ties to the group at the moment. No one knew her and she didn't know anybody so she could've just leaf. She didn't because she saw that Rebecca was panicking.
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
That's a great point you make there Daze. Along with 'Denial' you show to excel at argumentation skills.
Seriously, tho. Are you going to deny that Jane risks her life by staying down until Clem and Sarah leave the trailer through the skylight?
I dunno. Jane? Even so, that's just pure coincidence; easily could have been any other character.
That doesn't make it any less good of her. If she didn't care for the baby she wouldn't be doing it!
Who went down? I thought you said Jane waited til everyone was safe?
Uhhh, what? I'm talking about when the deck colapses and Jane goes down to try to free Sarah?
Kenny isn't a liability. This just shows you're stretching so far just to defend Jane that you forgot what you were answering. Dude chillax a bit, it's fine to just admit that Jane isn't as comfortable with liabilities as other characters.
Oh Kenny definitely is a liability to me. He was so helpful during the first part of Amid The Ruins! And his actions in Episode 5 totally did not contribute to the group's downfall and Arvo shooting Clem.
Right place the right time. You can even argue Clem isn't a liability.
Still doesn't make it any less good of her. She deliberately ran and risked falling to the ice lake in order to save Clem. That says something.
I think that one is down to opinion.
Humm, I don't know.
'How much food do we have left?'
'About a week'
'And for the baby?'
'Not much'
(...)
'Bonnie said there's formula (for AJ)'
I think that shows worry.
Kenny.
Oh yeah? How so? By staying in a tent? By beating Arvo? By making a baby travel North instead of taking him to a safe place where they knew there was food?
Don't start a comment formally with "Hi", and then have many short outbursts of child like tantrums throwing bashful insults at a fictitious character. It's paradoxical.
Don't tell me how to write my comments on the internet. And it's a delight to see that you tried to avoid my point by answering with this random statement.
I hope it's not just me you don't take seriously.
Keeping on avoiding my points I see!
No. Never once said that. But if your baby cousin was one of the last babies in the world, and you still refuse to, you must have something wrong mentally.
Uh, no I wouldn't? Just because Jane doesn't want to hold AJ makes her mentally deficient? This should go to the stupid theories thread! Oh and I asume that Mike is also mentally deficient since he was clearly uncomfortable holding the baby.
you fell uncomfortable holding your own cousin, but is fine with calling me son? Whatever..
I fail to see how those two things correlate.
Yeah cos Keny really left that gun in the exact position Clem lay, and shouted out to Clem "shoot Jane". Riiight. It was Jane who forced Clem to choose between herself and Kenny. Denial.
Kenny caused the fight directly, which made Jane and him fight to death. Things only went as far as they did because Kenny attacked Jane in the first place. Had him reacted like a normal person and merely asked what had happened, and no fight would've happened in the first place.
Please don't take yourself too seriously. This quote speaks for itself.
I stand by that statement. Jane created a hypothetical situation. Had anyone else been there, even Rebecca, AJ's real mom, and she wouldn't have reacted like that. There was only a fight because Kenny threw a punch at Jane in the first place.
Jane undirectly started the fight. Kenny directly started the fight. There is a difference.
Don't confuse me for those Youtube Kenny fans who idolise him so much.
It's hard to when you claim that Kenny 'technically wasn't' trying to murder Jane. What was he doing then? Was he justified when he tried to kill her whithout a shred of hard proof of her suposed crime?
Neither is generalising Kenny's
I didn't generalize Kenny's fanbase in any way. I know Kenny fans who can actually admit that he was in the wrong in the fight and I never mentioned that that kind of Kenny fan didn't exist. You don't stike me as one of them for some reason.
What? Dan, I've said the exact same things about Kenny in the past to you. Remember the argument we had in the 'characters you hate' thread? I believe that I said worse things about him!
I never sugarcoated how I felt about Kenny to you or anyone, lol. Just because I added a few 'fucking''s and 'motherfucking's dosen't make my points any different from the past.
I'm on the verge of my patience with this matter and I guess you can understand that being asked the same things over and over and over again and never actually be heard can make anyone a bit... over agressive.
Calm down man! I don't think even i've raged this much and that's saying something lol. But i have to say your true opinions of Kenny really came out of that post and i hated every word you said. At least now i know how you truly feel.
Well that was just it really. It was overly aggressive but I don't blame you because of what Daze said. But the things you said about Kenny, yes you had said the same with me but i guess you went further to rip him apart due to being so angry with Daze's post.
What? Dan, I've said the exact same things about Kenny in the past to you. Remember the argument we had in the 'characters you hate' thread?… more I believe that I said worse things about him!
I never sugarcoated how I felt about Kenny to you or anyone, lol. Just because I added a few 'fucking''s and 'motherfucking's dosen't make my points any different from the past.
I'm on the verge of my patience with this matter and I guess you can understand that being asked the same things over and over and over again and never actually be heard can make anyone a bit... over agressive.
Yes but Jane caused the fight to happen in the first place and she knew he'd get mad. You cannot deny that if she hadn't planned what she did, Kenny would not have tried killing her because he would have had no reason to. I will always be against her in this scene. We both know Kenny was wrong but her actions were just as bad and there's no denying that.
That part of my original comment was pointing out how you go off tangents and write loads and loads just to scrape a valid arguement for def… moreending Jane.
Oh, I'm the one going off tangents here. I'm really the only one who keeps repeating the same points over and over again. You and the rest of the Kenny fans in this forum never do that!
I'm defending my point of view on her and Kenny characters and their actions. As I've said I've been writting these very same points since January, yet you came here and asked a question that I've answered a milion times and then you complain about me going off tangents?
Well I haven't been that active over the past few months due to my exams and holiday. Maybe I haven't read every comment you've typed?
Then perhaps you shouldn't have said that no Janiac could answer it?
So you're telling me Jane can't fight and say 3 simple words at the same time? Did the whole world have to be s… [view original content]
Yes but Jane caused the fight to happen in the first place (...) You cannot deny that if she hadn't planned what she did, Kenny would not have tried killing her because he would have had no reason to.
I know that, Dan! I mentioned quite a few times in my post that she undirectly caused the fight. Please, don't think that I picture Jane as an inocent victim in all this, she obviously also contributed for the fight to happen.
she knew he'd get mad.
Fair enough, but she didn't know he'd get that mad. Mad enough to kill!
Kenny caused the fight directly
Yes but Jane caused the fight to happen in the first place and she knew he'd get mad. You cannot den… morey that if she hadn't planned what she did, Kenny would not have tried killing her because he would have had no reason to. I will always be against her in this scene. We both know Kenny was wrong but her actions were just as bad and there's no denying that.
It's hard to when you claim that Kenny 'technically wasn't' trying to murder Jane. What was he doing then? Was he justified when he tried to kill her whithout a shred of hard proof of her suposed crime?
Technically speaking, Kenny was attempting to kill Jane, or commit manslaughter. Murder is when you have planned to kill somebody else beforehand. It is clear that Kenny's wish to kill Jane only surfaced after she came back without AJ, which makes it manslaughter and negates murder.
That part of my original comment was pointing out how you go off tangents and write loads and loads just to scrape a valid arguement for def… moreending Jane.
Oh, I'm the one going off tangents here. I'm really the only one who keeps repeating the same points over and over again. You and the rest of the Kenny fans in this forum never do that!
I'm defending my point of view on her and Kenny characters and their actions. As I've said I've been writting these very same points since January, yet you came here and asked a question that I've answered a milion times and then you complain about me going off tangents?
Well I haven't been that active over the past few months due to my exams and holiday. Maybe I haven't read every comment you've typed?
Then perhaps you shouldn't have said that no Janiac could answer it?
So you're telling me Jane can't fight and say 3 simple words at the same time? Did the whole world have to be s… [view original content]
Seriously though, I always thought that murder was when someone killed another without a strong reason. I wasn't even aware that 'manslaughter' was a word!
To make this clear, what I meant was killing someone without a strong reason which Kenny (in my prespective of things) did.
The Telltale Community has taught me more than all my english teachers combined!
It's hard to when you claim that Kenny 'technically wasn't' trying to murder Jane. What was he doing then? Was he justified when he tried to… more kill her whithout a shred of hard proof of her suposed crime?
@TWDazehnuu is correct!
Technically speaking, Kenny was attempting to kill Jane, or commit manslaughter. Murder is when you have planned to kill somebody else beforehand. It is clear that Kenny's wish to kill Jane only surfaced after she came back without AJ, which makes it manslaughter and negates murder.
I flagged some comments below this comment that had derailed the thread with a Kenny/Jane argument. Let's please stay on topic and avoid unrelated arguments. Thanks!
(This is not a warning in particular towards you, IronWoodLover. I am responding to your comment because it was this comment that started the arguments that eventually derailed the thread before I flagged those posts.)
Because the game developers probably rewrote it in order to make it seem like Jane wasn't trying to kill Kenny. I actually agree with this r… moreewrite, during the first part of the fight Jane is seen trying to calm Kenny down and end the fight (when she guards her knife and when she tells him to 'Just go'). Having her sudenly wanting to murder him would be wierd and out of nowhere.
If this happened, I don't know if I could shoot her. If I couldn't, I'd definitely leave her, tho.
As a direct sequel to the milestone entry, Mike will be the topic of this memo.
Like with many other players, Mike was kinda the generic guy that I never really gave much thought about. Indeed, in a cast consisting of a Little Miss Badass who's Wise beyond her years , a Wannabe Paragon with a Hero Complex, a No-nonsense Pregnant Widow, an Anxiously Dependent Woman-child, a Broken Hotheaded Widower, a Regretful Former Addict who is Desperate for Approval , and a Rational yet Bitter Loner, Mike comes off as very normal in comparison. However, after looking back on his character, I actually kinda like him for who he was: just some guy who got on Carver's bad side, but whose patient, helpful, and jokey demeanor proves that he merely has the face of a thug. His rough appearance and cranky introduction made his true personality a bit unexpected and he was an enjoyable side addition to the cast who should've gotten more character focus and screentime.
Certain characteristics about Mike are noticeable in the game that arguably make him a likeable and sympathetic character: he is very friendly, protective, and helpful, jokey when the mood is light, very down to earth when it comes his assessment on the intentions of others, though a bit oafish and scattered with his own but he means well. He looks out for everyone when they make risky decisions or end up in vulnerable positions, very sympathetic towards youths that are put in dangerous situations, is willing to talk things out when others are likely let their emotions control them and is forgiving of those who have wronged/attacked him. These traits show themselves when he came to Arvo's defense when the boy lost his sister and was attacked by Kenny while mourning her, told Clementine that she doesn't have to earn anyone's respect when Kenny volunteers her to get the walkietalkie to Luke, tried to tell Kenny to get off of him while pinned against a window despite actually being very strong himself, and desperately pleaded with Buricko and Vitali not to make him kill them. So, with most characters having a slew of personal issues to sort out and flaws that would often cause problems, it was kinda nice to have Mike be a guy who tries to help them get through it so they can get things done. I just wish we got a little more interaction and backstory with him so that his character actually feels like it has a more significant impact on the story.
As I recently confirmed in the unused plots thread, Mike was originally supposed to be Ralph, one of the guys that cornered Christa by the river, which is why their models look so similar. The original result of the gunshot Clementine hears as she runs away from the group had the bullet nick "Ralph" on the left side of his face and damage his ear. When Mike is officially introduced to the players presumably the following morning of arriving in Carver's Camp, Clementine would recognize him and alert Kenny to his identity. "Ralph" reappearing in Episode 3 would mean that the players would have an opportunity to have him explain what has happened with Christa, but since the writers wanted to keep her disappearance a mystery for the indefinite future, not to mention it was similar to what they were already planning to do with Bonnie (a character is part of a group of bad guys, eventually defects over to the player's group, tries to earn player's trust, etc.), they 'recreated' him as a new character instead and, eventually, he and Bonnie would become sidelined but appreciated comic relief in Amid the Ruins before playing major roles in the plot of No Going Back that would end in their betrayal. Leaving the "Ralph" subplot in the game would have helped propagate a theme of gaining trust, make his penultimate betrayal more poignant, and possibly give us a deliberately vague clue to Christa's whereabouts.
While having him be just some former bandit with a shady background kinda shows how harsh and unexpected the world can be for survivors, I've come up with a welding connection for his possible backstory. I recently thought it would be ironic if he turned out to have connections to Michelle. Maybe he was the Lee to Michelle's Clementine, but unlike those two, they didn't see eye to eye about how they do things and so ended up divorcing their apprenticeship. It could tie in with the whole forgiveness arc that I recently confirmed was supposed to be in the game. While it would give them a common ground, it would sorta showcase a more black/gray and grey/white morality between the two: Michelle tried to rob Clementine and accidentally killed Omid, while "Ralph"'s band ganged up on Christa and tried to kill Clementine. And then, for their parts in these events, Michelle was popped by Christa, Christa was presumably sent off to parts unknown, "Ralph"'s band got wiped out by Clementine, Roman, and/or Carver, and Mike himself got his ear scarred and then got himself captured by Carver's group. It would serve to deliver a message about the cycle of revenge and how it may never end unless one person is man enough to admit to their mistakes and put an end to it. Kinda reminiscent to the Walter-Matthew-Nick situation, except on grander scale and, unlike with Nick, they have to look each other in the eye on a daily basis and thus deal with the consequences of their actions; Nick can even be the one to advise Clementine on this path, since he probably feels guilty that he never got to make it up to Walter before Carver killed him. It would also serve to distance Michelle from Clementine and Mike, who both have feelings revolving around friendship and preserving those who have helped you, and distance Mike from Carver and Jane, who both have policies revolving around self-reliance and killing those who have wronged you.
Should Clementine inquire on Mike's backstory when they get a free moment to talk about their differences, he makes reference to mentoring a scavenger girl with a bad attitude at one point before she decided to go her own way after he disagreed with how she wanted to go about getting supplies. If she sourly brings up that she is probably the one who tried to rob her using her own gun, accidentally killed Christa's husband/baby-daddy Omid due to how obviously untrained she was with one, and then got herself killed over it by Christa, Mike freezes in a conflicted manner, shakes his head a few times as if he doesn't believe her, and obviously tries to hold back his regret before deciding to laugh in spite of his grief. He explains that he actually finds it kinda funny that not only did he go and do exactly what he didn't want Michelle to do despite being the elder, but he also attacked her shooter with a loaded gun handy without even realizing it. If Clementine tries to ask how does knowing this information make him feel, he thinks for a moment to really cycle through and contemplate his emotions before answering that he feels angry and desperate to think otherwise and...sad. She can take advantage of this moment to reveal how she felt when she had to run away and lose contact with Christa or when Omid got shot or when she had to deal with the fact that she killed Lee by shooting/leaving him. If she chooses to do so or not, it basically acts as an additional punch for her to throw his way and can use it alongside Michelle's death to either sympathize with him, ask him for his thoughts on whether he could forgive her, demand to know whether that makes them even, or even go as far as to mock him over what happened to him and Michelle.
While his immediate reaction would vary based on the response, Mike eventually calms himself down enough to simply talk through their similar losses with each other. He begins to furrowedly confess that he is starting to get some of the apprehension she had with being around him, not to mention the bitterness she has no doubt been repressing. Knowing that Clementine is directly responsible for Michelle getting herself killed by Christa does make him feel a little salty, but also...content. What he and Michelle did to her was wrong and while she could've easily kept all of this dirty laundry to herself or had him be dealt with and/or taken out anonymously, he's happy that she was [wo]man enough to accept her feelings and personally confronted him over it. He agrees that he'd rather those circumstances back then didn't cause any more confusion and hopes that it won't get in the way of a settlement for peace now. Though it's ultimately up to Clementine whether she wants to forgive Mike for what he was a part of, the general idea is that Mike is fine with your decision either way because he knows that what he did was terrible and he shouldn't expect her to trust him just because he apologized. If she chooses not to forgive him, Clementine will continue to tolerate his presence in favor of just working together out of an alliance of convenience since they're both trapped in a position where there is a bigger threat controlling their lives, to which Mike respectfully accepts her stance and goes about his business. This shows that Mike is indeed a compassionate and understanding person who only did the bad things he does because he genuinely saw no easier way at the time. I also gives him an edge against the other nebulous parties such as Carver, Troy, Bonnie, or Jane: While Mike and Michelle both have this shady thuggishess about them, they also have enough restraint to be trustworthy or, at the very least, predictable. Of course, Clementine would learn later that Michelle is still alive and has been browbeaten into accepting her place among Carver's citizens as a laborer and expansion worker. She could confer Mike to her presence among the populace so that his earlier heartbreak would be mended and he could have the chance to reconcile his feelings of regret.
Another aspect of his character that I thought was a bit unconventional was his relationship with Jane, or rather lackthereof. I understand that two characters who are introduced in the same manner don't need to be linked for the rest of their screentime, but you would think there would be some connection. From what I gather, Mike mentioned that Jane vouching for Kenny's escape plan to walk through a herd was the first thing he ever heard her say--and it was crazy and stupid. I at least got the vibe that they respected each other enough to stay out of each other's way while in the pin and agree with the other's opinion of what the rational course of action would be. So, having them at least acknowledge each other's presence would work fine enough. Depending on how the players interacted with the two women previously, as well as how they react to the situation as it is underway, Mike would be in position to help Jane pull Sarah up the half collapsed deck should she successfully save the latter after the fall is revealed to have crippled her. She and a tearfully happy Bonnie would move her into the garage with Kenny and Rebecca while Mike helps Clementine deal with the walkers that followed Jane's example. Another detail I didn't notice until recently was that after finishing talking with Kenny in time for Clementine to come clean his wound, Jane walks away to join in on a conversation with Mike and Arvo. I would kill to know what these three were discussing at the time, since not only is it one of the few times Mike and Jane interact with each other, but Arvo is also apparently part of the conversation. I think it would have been a great oppurtunity to not only develop Mike's friendship with Arvo and growing fear of Kenny, but it could also try to fix/justify a serious problem with Jane's character....(See the very bottom of the post for elaboration because this isn't about her).
His role from that point on would be roughly the same, with him coming to Arvo's defense with Luke despite having been shot, and finally the beginnings of his growing intolerance of Kenny's behavior, with his beating Arvo into a bloody pulp over the conditions of his house being the last straw. That gloomy night, when Clementine is awakened by the sound of a conveniently loose rope at the window, she finds Mike and Arvo putting his bag of supplies in the truck while looking for the keys and, not wanting a repeat of Vernon and the Cancer survivors, draws her gun on them and the also team-changing (possibly in more ways than one) misandrist Bonnie, who just can’t stay in one group for long. Properly paranoid by this point, Arvo draws a gun of his own and keeps his aim on her (♪MEMORIES! Of the way that we were! ♪) while having enough trust in Mike to allow him the chance to reason with her. Immediately after turning around, Mike moves towards her and tries to keep her calm; when she threatens him to stop, he and Bonnie do so with guilty tones, which seems to indicate that they obviously didn't want her to see them like that. Mike honestly explains that they just need to get away from "that guy" because he didn't give them any choice(with Arvo outright calling him pure evil), despite knowing that Clementine's preexisting history and feelings around him would only complicate things. When she shows signs of potentially getting upset when she realizes they're afraid of Kenny, Mike takes a moment to make the best decision before setting down the bag and, in spite of the possibility that Clementine could easily gun him down or alert the others, starts to ease his way towards Clementine to get her gun so they can talk things out.
While more negative minded players could take this as a sign that he never really changed and run with it, those with a more neutral disposition would be able to see the intention: stealing the supplies really is nothing personal. His past actions and antagonism against Clementine stayed in the past, he just was pressured into stealing again due to his own standards and limitations concerning Kenny and his previously established bottled up regrets as a survivor: Arvo would be his second chance to make things right like he should've done with Michelle. I'm pretty sure Mike and Bonnie(and, to a lesser degree, Arvo) were meant to have genuinely turned over a new leaf or at most given in to their true friendly natures. The fact that all three had been enemies to begin with (Mike was one of the bandits that (possibly, but most likely) killed Christa, Bonnie was initially working as a guard and informant for Carver, and Arvo and his group tried to rob everyone after Jane and Clementine stuck him up) does sort of muddy the waters, admittedly, but their decision was not completely wrong: Jane, Bonnie, and Mike feeling nervous around Kenny after spending so much time around Carver is understandable and Arvo learned this firsthand through very little provocation of his own. The implication that fear is what brought them together and also convinced them that it’s ok to leave a two day old baby and a preteen girl to starve to death would make it apparent that they really just made the decision as soon as the oppurtunity presented itself and didn't have time to consider the consequences. The fact that Clementine may not even bring AJ up doesn't really give her much leeway to convince them that their wrong for wanting to leave and I would like to think that Mike would be conflicted if she did.
As Mike approaches Clementine to hopefully get her to put down the gun so they can talk, you have four options at this point: ask to join Mike, threaten him to give up, warn him that you'll shoot, or call for help. While, on one hand, reinstating his original death scene would give the more vengeful players a chance to take out their frustrations with this development, I personally would rather he live. Because, on the other hand, we get a fitting character moment that really nails home the point of his forgiveness arc: he would be conscious, like in the final game, to witness yet another ally let him down when Arvo shoots Clementine. This would also make Arvo's decision to shoot Clementine regardless of her actions actually have a little more impact, as he seemed to be genuinely concerned about Mike's safety but he had truly crossed the line because he still decided to do so against his wishes so he could get revenge for Natasha. After Clementine drops to the ground and Arvo stumbles to his escape in a panic, Mike and Bonnie express shock that this happened and are concerned for all of their wellbeings now. Deciding that they need to go to avoid Kenny's wrath , he tries to convince Bonnie that if she is the first to go to Clementine's side; On the otherhand, Mike himself also wants to help Clementine since he obviously didn't want anyone else to get hurt but decides to follow Bonnie and leave under the hopes that Clementine is in good hands. Once again, Mike has failed to convince a youth to do things in an orderly fashion and now he has to presumbably live knowing that a little girl may have died because he took pity on someone who was nominally her enemy.
The reason these suggestions are usually so brief in scope are because I'm trying to work within the framework of what the final product implies could've or actually did happen. My eventual entry on Michelle may not be a trend breaker either. I plan on doing some more thorough suggestions in the future, but for right now, I'll just hit on general thoughts.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Omid, Becca3, Michelle5, Nick, Alvin, Sarah1, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph6, and Natasha4. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Becca3, Michelle5, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha4 would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
Sorry, forgot to add this in during the editing process.
As I've stated before, Jane came off as unintentonally unsympathetic in this episode because of the baggage that didn't carry over properly from Amid the Ruins: her absentminded implication that Rebecca could get rid of the baby, trying to repeatedly convince Clementine to give up on the group, being the one who decided to rob and threaten Arvo, making Luke the offer that caused him to shirk his guard duty, her role in both of Sarah's deaths and her abandonment of the group before the final scene, which meant she avoided the brunt of the Russian attack. The fact that most of this is water under the bridge in this episode despite the horrible connotations of some just didn't feel right; the only true exceptions are Jane's apology to Clementine for leaving, Luke and Bonnie's visual skepticism towards her initial reappearance and a complainer is wrong moment with Kenny("Don't try and pin this on me."). Back on topic, having Jane and Mike discuss having Arvo along and their role in it could've help address this by having Jane and Arvo actually interact towards each other's presence. While she didn't necessarily disagree with killing Arvo, Jane seemed to think he was useful enough to use for supplies and got angry with Kenny for beating him so badly; Arvo actually having a chance to be around Jane without Clementine and Kenny would also address whether he still holds a grudge against her, avoids contact out of fear, or if Clementine and Kenny simply overshadowed what little beef he had with her and he is mutually indifferent. Seeing as Arvo wasn't exactly in a speaking mood at the time, I would like to think Clementine popping into the conversation would potentially have Jane officially apologize to both for starting the conflict with the Russians in the first place. As unlikely as it may sound, Jane was consistently softened around Clementine so I would've liked to think she would admit her wrongdoings when she isn't feeling pressured or on trial.
As a direct sequel to the milestone entry, Mike will be the topic of this memo.
Like with many other players, Mike was kinda the generic g… moreuy that I never really gave much thought about. Indeed, in a cast consisting of a Little Miss Badass who's Wise beyond her years , a Wannabe Paragon with a Hero Complex, a No-nonsense Pregnant Widow, an Anxiously Dependent Woman-child, a Broken Hotheaded Widower, a Regretful Former Addict who is Desperate for Approval , and a Rational yet Bitter Loner, Mike comes off as very normal in comparison. However, after looking back on his character, I actually kinda like him for who he was: just some guy who got on Carver's bad side, but whose patient, helpful, and jokey demeanor proves that he merely has the face of a thug. His rough appearance and cranky introduction made his true personality a bit unexpected and he was an enjoyable side addition to the cast who should've gotten more character focus and screent… [view original content]
Sorry, forgot to add this in during the editing process.
As I've stated before, Jane came off as unintentonally unsympathetic in this epi… moresode because of the baggage that didn't carry over properly from Amid the Ruins: her absentminded implication that Rebecca could get rid of the baby, trying to repeatedly convince Clementine to give up on the group, being the one who decided to rob and threaten Arvo, making Luke the offer that caused him to shirk his guard duty, her role in both of Sarah's deaths and her abandonment of the group before the final scene, which meant she avoided the brunt of the Russian attack. The fact that most of this is water under the bridge in this episode despite the horrible connotations of some just didn't feel right; the only true exceptions are Jane's apology to Clementine for leaving, Luke and Bonnie's visual skepticism towards her initial reappearance and a complainer is wrong moment with Kenny("Don't try and pi… [view original content]
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water and eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
Sorry, forgot to add this in during the editing process.
As I've stated before, Jane came off as unintentonally unsympathetic in this epi… moresode because of the baggage that didn't carry over properly from Amid the Ruins: her absentminded implication that Rebecca could get rid of the baby, trying to repeatedly convince Clementine to give up on the group, being the one who decided to rob and threaten Arvo, making Luke the offer that caused him to shirk his guard duty, her role in both of Sarah's deaths and her abandonment of the group before the final scene, which meant she avoided the brunt of the Russian attack. The fact that most of this is water under the bridge in this episode despite the horrible connotations of some just didn't feel right; the only true exceptions are Jane's apology to Clementine for leaving, Luke and Bonnie's visual skepticism towards her initial reappearance and a complainer is wrong moment with Kenny("Don't try and pi… [view original content]
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water and eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
Sorry, forgot to add this in during the editing process.
As I've stated before, Jane came off as unintentonally unsympathetic in this epi… moresode because of the baggage that didn't carry over properly from Amid the Ruins: her absentminded implication that Rebecca could get rid of the baby, trying to repeatedly convince Clementine to give up on the group, being the one who decided to rob and threaten Arvo, making Luke the offer that caused him to shirk his guard duty, her role in both of Sarah's deaths and her abandonment of the group before the final scene, which meant she avoided the brunt of the Russian attack. The fact that most of this is water under the bridge in this episode despite the horrible connotations of some just didn't feel right; the only true exceptions are Jane's apology to Clementine for leaving, Luke and Bonnie's visual skepticism towards her initial reappearance and a complainer is wrong moment with Kenny("Don't try and pi… [view original content]
Not sure what you're suggesting exactly but I'll make my best guess: You're questioning how long "Ralph" would've had to heal from his wound before being captured by Carver and thrown into the pin with Reggie?
If so, it seemed to have been implied that Clementine spent days around the Cabin (Day 1.Clementine is separated from Christa, chased by Winston, and falls into river. Day 2.Clementine spends time with and eventually attacked by Sam, found find Luke and Pete, locked in the shed, helped by Alvin and/or Sarah, and finally welcomed into the group. Day 3.Clementine, Nick, and Pete go on a fishing/hunting trip, Victor is found dehydrated and wounded amongst Roman's gang, Pete is bitten, Clementine spends the day before evening with Nick/Pete in hiding, Nick/Pete sacrifice himself so she can escape. Day 4.Clementine arrives back at the Cabin, is left alone with Soci- I mean Sarah, plays dumb with "George," and finally is brought along with the group on Carlos' advice. Day 5-9. Traveling and implied character development. Day 10.Five days later, the Cabin group arrive outside the bridge, the misunderstanding with Matthew, Kenny is alive, bonding in the Ski resort, Carver's scouting party shows up, and everyone minus Walter, Alvin(determinate), and Luke is taken captive. Day 11-13.Episode 3 happens.)
I'd say that leaves a relatively ample time frame for Mike to be integrated into Carver's camp and save Reggie from his arm.
To be honest, I completely forgot to talk about his connections with Reggie, Bonnie, Victor, Taavia, and Carver. Might be something to keep in mind for the future installments, eh.
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water … moreand eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
Looking back at this, I realized I should've added a little more to make the Rebecca choice mean a little more. Maybe later.
Also, it just occured to me that Sarah would be hobbling on a cobblestone road with a broken leg in a makeshift cast with a gun in her hand-- IN THE FREEZING COLD! If that ain't determination, I don't know what is!
I was saving this for my own personal topic at some point, but the first character that comes to is Sarah.
If I'm being nice by keeping m… moreost of how the story went in tact, the trailer part scene would remain almost exactly the same(sorry Nick fans, but I honestly can't think of what I'd do differently off the top of my head that the game at least tries to imply went down; I plan on doing some 'research' so I can try once again to better understand and appreciate his character some more before I make any big judgement calls around him), maybe a smidge more interaction with her during the baby delivery setup, and then her role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same. Whether she actually participates in the fight or not, when the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless. If we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense, she is buried under the rub… [view original content]
The episode continues with Mike's betrayal. Clem has the choice to shoot him. If she does, Sarah is seen trying to aid Clem while panicking. Shel and Bonnie escape. If she doesn't shoot Mike, Mike grabs Sarah and they both escape with Shel and Bonnie. Clem's shot, dream sequence, Kenny and Jane argue, Christa sides with the Wellington plan, Sarah is scared shitless (if she's there).
Forgive me if this was addressed but what is the purpose of having Mike kidnap Sarah if he isn't shot other than the give a reason why he gets away? Is this meant to be a sequel hook or a downer ending?
Uhhh... honestly, I was just making shit up as I wrote. I figured it would be a nice aditional branch since Sarah can't die in that canon, she could, at least been taken away.
But it can also be a 'sequel hook' for Season 3. Let's say Clem bumps into Mike's group in Season 3.
Sarah's character would be completely different depending on if you shot Mike or not. Like, if she was 'educated' by Bonnie and Shel during the time skip she'd still be slightly cowardly and more dishonest, but if she was 'educated' by Clem during the time skip she'd be more fearless.
Idk, I'm yet again making stuff up.
The episode continues with Mike's betrayal. Clem has the choice to shoot him. If she does, Sarah is seen trying to aid Clem while panicking.… more Shel and Bonnie escape. If she doesn't shoot Mike, Mike grabs Sarah and they both escape with Shel and Bonnie. Clem's shot, dream sequence, Kenny and Jane argue, Christa sides with the Wellington plan, Sarah is scared shitless (if she's there).
Forgive me if this was addressed but what is the purpose of having Mike kidnap Sarah if he isn't shot other than the give a reason why he gets away? Is this meant to be a sequel hook or a downer ending?
Shameless repost, lol
Uhhh... honestly, I was just making shit up as I wrote. I figured it would be a nice aditional branch since Sarah can't die in that canon, s… morehe could, at least been taken away.
But it can also be a 'sequel hook' for Season 3. Let's say Clem bumps into Mike's group in Season 3.
Sarah's character would be completely different depending on if you shot Mike or not. Like, if she was 'educated' by Bonnie and Shel during the time skip she'd still be slightly cowardly and more dishonest, but if she was 'educated' by Clem during the time skip she'd be more fearless.
Idk, I'm yet again making stuff up.
I posted this in the Dead Characters Potential thread. Not really canon to my other entries.
The Russians are a Necessary Weasel example on top of being a rulebreaker.
The slide for Amid the Ruins has Clementine smearing blood on her face as if preparing for war, with numerous silhouettes behind her. I've seen some people theorize that this meant there was supposed to be a dispute between two groups that Clementine would play a role in. Having Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali, with optional assistance from some other characters, act as the opposing side after Jane and Clementine started the conflict by sticking up Arvo would've serve this end and have a legitimate gray vs. grey conflict, with the "heroes" and the antagonists having some people on their side that are more heroic and sympathetic than others. Maybe have Clementine act as a go between since she attempted to convince Jane that this was a bad idea, with another character (possibly an old character like Becca, Tisha, Taavia, etc.) doing the same for the other side.
I posted this in the Dead Characters Potential thread. Not really canon to my other entries.
The Russians are a Necessary Weasel example … moreon top of being a rulebreaker.
The slide for Amid the Ruins has Clementine smearing blood on her face as if preparing for war, with numerous silhouettes behind her. I've seen some people theorize that this meant there was supposed to be a dispute between two groups that Clementine would play a role in. Having Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali, with optional assistance from some other characters, act as the opposing side after Jane and Clementine started the conflict by sticking up Arvo would've serve this end and have a legitimate gray vs. grey conflict, with the "heroes" and the antagonists having some people on their side that are more heroic and sympathetic than others. Maybe have Clementine act as a go between since she attempted to convince Jane that this was a bad idea, with another character (possibl… [view original content]
Frankly, I just wish Ben could've survived the Events of season 1, seeing him mature from a Spineless detriment to a Full-fledged survivor would've been an amazing transformation, not to mention some more background detail regarding his Family and his time in the gym during the 3 months after the initial outbreak. He would've been a good guy to see Clementine develop with, plus maybe let Clementine (If she was brought to Crawford) explain why she saw Ben as a friend.
Not sure what you're suggesting exactly but I'll make my best guess: You're questioning how long "Ralph" would've had to heal from his wound before being captured by Carver and thrown into the pin with Reggie?
If so, it seemed to have been implied that Clementine spent days around the Cabin (Day 1.Clementine is separated from Christa, chased by Winston, and falls into river. Day 2.Clementine spends time with and eventually attacked by Sam, found find Luke and Pete, locked in the shed, helped by Alvin and/or Sarah, and finally welcomed into the group. Day 3.Clementine, Nick, and Pete go on a fishing/hunting trip, Victor is found dehydrated and wounded amongst Roman's gang, Pete is bitten, Clementine spends the day before evening with Nick/Pete in hiding, Nick/Pete sacrifice himself so she can escape. Day 4.Clementine arrives back at the Cabin, is left alone with Soci- I mean Sarah, plays dumb with "George," and finally is brought along with the group on Carlos' advice. Day 5-9. Traveling and implied character development. Day 10.Five days later, the Cabin group arrive outside the bridge, the misunderstanding with Matthew, Kenny is alive, bonding in the Ski resort, Carver's scouting party shows up, and everyone minus Walter, Alvin(determinate), and Luke is taken captive. Day 11-13.Episode 3 happens.)
I'd say that leaves a relatively ample time frame for Mike to be integrated into Carver's camp and save Reggie from his arm.
To be honest, I completely forgot to talk about his connections with Reggie, Bonnie, Victor, Taavia, and Carver. Might be something to keep in mind for the future installments, eh.
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water … moreand eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
Alright, another thought I had. This isn't so much change to deceased,determinant or unknown characters, but rather a change to the story in general.
The change begins after the shootout with the Russians. Kenny grabs Arvo and uses him as a sheild/hostage to protect himself from the crazy Russians trying to kill him. This scene pretty much plays out exactly like how it did in the game, with Jane stepping in to save Kenny from the Russian shooting at him, thereby ending the shootout. Kenny loses it at Arvo and anyone who stands in his way and sticks up for Arvo will be executed by Kenny then and there for disloyalty, including (regretfully) Clementine if she opens her mouth, or if she stuck up for Arvo earlier when Kenny used him as a sheild (so basically everyone except Jane, Arvo and determinantly Clementine).
If Clementine is killed then Jane takes over as playable character. After leaning over Clementines corpse and shedding a tear (I mean this is Jane we're talking about here so she wouldn't exactly be blubbering or anything) she grabs a gun, points it at Kenny and angrily demands to know why he just wiped out the entire team. Kenny then emotionally explains that the group had show him disloyalty for the last time by taking Arvo's side over his and that if they had lived, they would have eventually betrayed both of them (which is actually true of Bonnie and Mike). Kenny then says that it's up to him and Jane now to be strong, protect each other and lead AJ to safety. Jane reluctantly agrees with him for now. Arvo pleads for his life and says he can take them to a food and safety... Jane convinces Kenny that it can't hurt to check the place out and that they should tie him up. Kenny reluctantly agrees. Jane, Kenny, Arvo and AJ then start their journey to wherever Arvo is taking them.
If Clementine lives then it plays out similarly to season 2 that we got. Jane demands to know why Kenneth killed the group, Clementine tells Jane that he was right to kill the group and that they could not be trusted. Arvo takes them to his hideout, Kenny vs Jane eventually happens and the season 2 endings are all more or less how they were in the game.
That is some excellent writing right there! Your post is very well-thought and has a lot of smart ideas and plot twists. I found many of your ideas interesting and I agree that some deaths should have been handled better, like Omid's death, I think this one was just rushed. I admire the way you think, how you closed some plot holes and how you gave everyone a chance for character development. I'm not exaggerating anything here (Although that's questionable), but I believe that Telltale, and probably other companies, need people like you. This was totally worth reading and I can't wait till you come up with some more ideas (If you're planning to).
Alright, another thought I had. This isn't so much change to deceased,determinant or unknown characters, but rather a change to the story in… more general.
The change begins after the shootout with the Russians. Kenny grabs Arvo and uses him as a sheild/hostage to protect himself from the crazy Russians trying to kill him. This scene pretty much plays out exactly like how it did in the game, with Jane stepping in to save Kenny from the Russian shooting at him, thereby ending the shootout. Kenny loses it at Arvo and anyone who stands in his way and sticks up for Arvo will be executed by Kenny then and there for disloyalty, including (regretfully) Clementine if she opens her mouth, or if she stuck up for Arvo earlier when Kenny used him as a sheild (so basically everyone except Jane, Arvo and determinantly Clementine).
If Clementine is killed then Jane takes over as playable character. After leaning over Clementines corpse and shedding a tear (… [view original content]
Not an actual contribution(I am planning it, though just trying to make a
decision) but I thought in celebration of my milestone post(as in fifth), I would do a brief recap of all the suggestions I’ve made to this topic. Feel free to go back to the original posts for the full original experience!
1. Sarah, Being nice edition: Trailer park scene almost exactly the same, minus any future plans for Nick. More interaction with her during the baby delivery setup and role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same (whether she actually participates in the fight or not, I’m fine with—for now…). When the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless and--if we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense--is buried under the rubble and needs Jane to come help her. You have two choices: Save Jane or Help Sarah.
If you save Jane, you actually see Sarah get chewed to rub in the fact that you just gave up on Sarah and "killing one in order to save many is part of survival" and yadda x 3.
If you help Sarah, Jane can successfully pull Sarah free but you later learn she hurt her left leg in the fall. Sarah can still determinately die due to: the board hitting Jane(no reason given, probably random), Sarah hitting Jane in the shin(Mean to Sarah), Jane losing her grip due to clawing Walkers(Mean to Jane), Jane decides to simply kill Sarah(random based on walk back), or Sarah telling Jane to just go(random based on pep talk).
Mike would be in position to help Jane pull Sarah up the half collapsed deck should she successfully save the latter after the fall is revealed to have crippled her. She and a tearfully happy Bonnie would move her into the garage with Kenny and Rebecca while Mike helps Clementine deal with the walkers that followed Jane's example.Sarah is brought alongside Luke for exercise after Jane leaves. After Luke and Kenny argue, she gets talking to from Clementine, who can: go off on her (frustration), reaffirm the walk back talk (patience/acceptance), or show happiness (kindness). Sarah responds out of either guilt, understanding, or resolve that she has somewhat accepted that Carlos is dead and that she is going to literally(ha ha) start pulling her own weight from now on. Especially now that she has to grow up and set an example for the baby.
After fade to black, she is seen limping behind the group in a makeshift caste with a gun. When Arvo shows up, she mostly keeps quiet but could probably ask if he's friendly. She may cautiously grab for her gun when you answer and nervously steps closer to Clementine when the Russians come out. When Rebecca turns, she can be seen going into her panic mode and glancing around; if you do nothing, Sarah glances at Clementine one last time shakily and makes her only walker kill, as Buricko opens fire shortly afterwards.
When No Turning Back begins, Sarah's bleeding body isn't too far away from where Rebecca and the baby are, with her arms/shoulders clearly pointed in its general direction. When the fight is done and over with, Clementine and Jane look over her corpse before joining the other group members around Rebecca.
Purpose: The basic idea is to have her gun training pay off in some way, be a not so similar contrast with Arvo, has a not so different moment with Clementine, a proper bookend made of her positive traits, the avoidance of a character derailment for Jane, gives Clementine a legitimate reason to determinately be angry with Arvo at this point, and also properly reinforcing what Carver and Jane were saying by having her die because that's just the way the people of the world works now.
2. Mr. David Parker: As in the final game, if Lee chops off his leg to get him out of the bear trap, Travis will get devoured by walkers and David will be brought back to the motor inn, where he bleeds to death and becomes the first non-bite victim to turn onscreen; now if Lee doesn't help David, Travis will get angry and try to grab Mark's gun to save him, getting himself shot and forcing everyone to abandon David to be eaten…except he would later be found by Lee at the St. John's dairy if you left Mr. Parker behind in the bear trap, where he would be the one having both legs chopped off by Danny instead of Mark.
Purpose: It would've created a greater sense of continuity where a previously red shirt character would come back into the story just to nail home the twist involving the St. John's.
3. Becca: She seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character is essentially a very classist bully that would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attitude. Shel could either have been handwaved into the story by stating that things with Vince/Shel didn't work out and she eventually abandoned him/her in favor of joining Taavia at Howe's Hardware; alternatively, she would still be around but just wouldn't show up very often outside of a character establishing moment, some inbetween filler, preparing for the walker invasion later on, and maybe being nearby during Becca's determinate death. She could determinately die at the hands of either Clementine, Troy, Carver, the Walkers, or even Sarah. If she survives her encounter, she wasn't strong enough to succeed over these troublemakers and thus would be driven to improve herself so that she can truly survive, which would leave a thread open for Becca to return as a greater enemy/ally in the future.
Purpose: She is the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content. Plus, I freely admit that having her fight Clementine is pure fanservice.
4. Natasha/“Maud”: Natasha is Arvo’s older sister and seemingly the voice of reason of the Russian Group. It goes unmentioned in the game proper, but Natasha suffers from sickle cell anemia, a disease that causes periodic episodes of pain through the blockage of tiny blood vessels in the chest and bones; this matches up with what Arvo mentioned before. However, despite having this sickness, Natasha still accompanies the group to ambush the Howe’s Ski Cabin group, causing some people to doubt the validity of the idea that she was sick and assume Arvo was just lying. I’d argue this is a sign of what type of person Natasha herself is: bold (refusing to just back down despite being almost as unimposing as Arvo), no-nonsense (yells at Kenny and Bonnie to put down their guns), vigilant (prowling around Bonnie like a damn lion), supportive (encouraging of her timid little brother), and sensible (smart enough to realize when things are going to end badly).
Honestly, the fact that I’ve seen several people refer to Arvo and his group as just bandits feels like a bit of a cheap hand wave to me. However, I won’t deny that it isn’t out of the realms of possibility: the exact nature of her connection to Buricko and Vitali(who both just scream obviously evil) is unknown, though I personally believe she is a member of their ‘gang,’ Arvo is just tagging along because of his familial connection to her, and Maud, her original game in the games’ files, could still be used as her street name. This headcanon was inspired by the fact that not only does Vitali claim that Arvo is dead to him when Kenny threatens to kill the boy, but Natasha comes off as a bit intimidating herself, despite barely having five lines. I even retroactively assume that it was Natasha’s idea to get payback in the first place: if Clementine tells Kenny and Luke that Arvo might be mad at them, they calmly tell him that they don’t think he’s alone, which causes Natasha to casually reveal herself first rather than last with her gun pointed at them. It was her medicine at stake in the first place and the fact that it and her little brother were threatened would no doubt anger her. In her only scene, she: confirms with her brother that these are the people that robbed him, recognizes how badly this will turn out and hysterically demands Kenny and Bonnie to lower their guns.
When I said Natasha would still play a relatively minor role in the story, what I meant was that not only is her character not the most charitable when it comes to adding to the story—there really isn’t that much space to give her any spotlight. Her only scene has her die at the end; you can’t really alter that because it’s such a crucial plot development. Developing Natasha would require spending time in flashbacks and cutaways outside of Clementine’s reach and having her spend any substantial amount of time with the non-English speaking Natasha would detract from that tense cliffhanger. So unfortunately, this sounds like more the type of thing that would necessitate an OVA or an episodic DLC in the vein of 400 Days. So, unfortunately, all I can suggest is possibly giving Natasha more dialogue during the ambush to flesh her out a little more.
Purpose: Not gonna lie, I sincerely wanted to highlight her character more but there's just no room. Maybe someday....
Here’s is a table of contents for old times sake!:
I want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Omid, Becca3, Michelle5, Nick, Alvin, Sarah1, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph6, and Natasha4. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Becca3, Michelle5, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha4 would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
Comments
Hi, Daze.
Too much words for you my dear? Call someone to read them for you if you're so fucking overwhelmed. I'll type the fuck out of my points of views on her character how much you want. I doubt you'll ever even have the fucking decency to actually read and take them into consideration, but here we fucking go.
Oh! You mean the fucking question that I've been answering for months now? You might want to rethink that statement son.
You know, Jane was probably going to say that AJ was alive right after she sheathed her weapon, but you know what happens next, right? Kenny the-fucking-saint attacked her again. And again. And again. And she fucking retaliated. Wowser. Someone retaliating after being attacked for literally nothing? How motherfucking shocking! The adrenaline and anger of the moment made Jane want to fucking hurt Kenny and rightfully so since he had just been attacking her based on a fucking hunch!
The moment Kenny attacked her after she sheathed her knife it got personal.
Ohh, yeah. A baseless witty and sarcastic comment pulled straight out of your ass. Add some fucking base to you claims. But let's go into it, shall we?
No. She wanted Clem to know that Kenny was dangerous and broken. Broken beyond repair. He was beating a fucking kid that had just lost everyone he knew about. He broke the whole fucking group by trying to be a demented dictator that didn't listen to everyone else's opinions and wanted to decide the fate of people for themselves. A man that was capable of committing homicide based on a fucking hunch! That's what Jane was trying to prove.
Oh, Booooh Whooo! Poor Keny lost his family and now is trying to use Clem as replacement! It doesn't give him the fucking right to be a psychopath.
Yeah, 'all the time'. Unless you don't kill Ben. Because if you don't fucking murder Ben, Clementine's safety becomes worthless to Kenny ; ). But let's omit that right?
Honestly I've stopped taking you seriously. Jane claimed that it was a fucking accident! The 'murder' came from Kenny's sick fucking head. You're the type of Kenny fan who can't even admit it. Ridiculous.
The girl who protected the liabilities*. FTFY. WHo saved Clem and Rebecca from the herd? Who stayed down in the RV until Clem, Sarah and Luke are safe? Who found the place for Rebecca's baby be born? Who was willing to steal to ensure Rebecca a more comfortable labour? Who went down to try and save Sarah in the observation deck? Who saved Kenny from Vitali? Who was trying to fix Kenny at the begining of 'No Going Back'? Who saved Clem from the ice lake? Who was mostly concerned for AJ's and the group's stability when formulating a plan? Ask yourself those questions and then tell me who actually helped the liabilities in this game. Obviously not Kenny who was too worried crying like a fucking baby in a tent and beating kids.
She didn't try to make you 'leave Sarah'. She was trying to make Clem not fucking commit suicide. Zombies were breaking in. Realistically, Clem, Sarah and Jane would've all died if not for fucking plot armour and plot convinience.
Yet did more than anyone else to ensure that baby's safety.
So? I don't feel comfortable holding my baby cousin. Does that make me hate him?
Keny forced you into that position. It wasn't Jane who started the fucking fight. It was your lord and savior Kenny. Jane tried to end the fight many times.
Wait, what? She told you to put your zombie friend out of his misery and that's a bad thing? The fuck?
And yet again, she did make you kill Sarah. She was trying to make you go up so you wouldn't get fucking killed. Sarah was static there wasn't time for psychological counseling. People have to understand that.
How hypocritical of you. You don't even recognize that what Kenny was doing was murder and I'm the one refusing to see the flaws? Spoiler alert, I think Jane has flaws and you're not in my fucking mind t make such claims about me. And generalizing the whole Jane fanbase isn't also very wise.
Have a good fucking day, I won't respond to youtube-like comments from you anymore.
Here is a place where you can discuss this ontopic.
I can't even, anymore.
I acquired a new perspective with the comment of @IronWoodLover, and I gave him extra Kudos for that. It doesn't go any further.
Calm down man! I don't think even i've raged this much and that's saying something lol. But i have to say your true opinions of Kenny really came out of that post and i hated every word you said. At least now i know how you truly feel.
at least you admitted that she wanted to hurt Kenny after saying that line lol
Oh, I'm the one going off tangents here. I'm really the only one who keeps repeating the same points over and over again. You and the rest of the Kenny fans in this forum never do that!
I'm defending my point of view on her and Kenny characters and their actions. As I've said I've been writting these very same points since January, yet you came here and asked a question that I've answered a milion times and then you complain about me going off tangents?
Then perhaps you shouldn't have said that no Janiac could answer it?
Jane sheathes her knife -> Kenny relaxes -> Jane prepares to say that AJ is alive -> Kenny attacks her once again -> Jane gets angry and irrational and wants to hurt Kenny too, giving up on her plan -> Jane and Kenny both madly fight eachother. Is that simple enough?
'But when he was with the knife above her neck, why didn't she say so?' Because if so, he'd get even more pissed.
I'm not saying that Jane is just a mere 'victim'. She was attacking too and she undirectly caused the fight.
Wierd, I don't remember even saying that adrenaline made anyone angry... I said that the adrenaline and anger of the moment made her act. You're capable of having adrenaline and being angry at the same time. Distorcion of words.
Yet again, you omit Kenny's side on that. Remember when he said that she was 'nothing'? That she didn't care about anyone else? And that no-one else cared about her? Yep, he said it first and Jane retaliated.
And Kenny totally didn't beat Jane before she scratched his eye!
What 'evidence', Daze? No more avoiding this question. Tell me what 'evidence' Kenny had.
'Clem, we could leave, right now.'
'What about AJ?'
'Kenny would never let him go...'
The game doesn't give Clem the option to tell Jane that she wanted to go and that she knew that Kenny was broken. Every character though of Clem as Kenny best friend who would never let him go. That's the reason why Mike and Bonnie didn't invite her to come with them. They thought she'd tell Kenny. And I can't blame them. You're forced to bond with Kenny. Force to talk to him many times. And rarely can express distrust or any negative feeling towards him to other characters.
Yes, we are. What good was beating him was gonna do? Take Arvo to the edge? Make another kid watch extreme violence? What if Kenny hadn't beaten Arvo? Would Mike and Bonnie leave? Would Arvo shoot Clem? It was cruel Daze, do you really think it wasn't? Do you think that kid that had already lost so much deserved to be punished even more? Wasn't loosing everything enough?
Oh, you know what I meant! He broke No Going Back's group with his insistence on trying to decide everyone's fate. Sorry if that wasn't clear wnough for you.
What? He asked? 'I got the truck working and I say where we go! And we're heading fucking North!' Refresh my memory. When did Kenny ask for the group's opinion?
Well, I didn't know that Kenny was capable of such thing until Jane demonstrated it. And what do you mean with the last sentence?
Ok Daze, understand this.
1. One thing is 'I lost my family, so I have the right to beat kids, scream at kids, being useless when the group most needs me, not listening to anyone else's minds and commit murder.'
2. Another thing is 'I lost my sister so I'm going to leave the group in order to not get emotionally hurt without compromising anyone else's wellbeing and safety.'
Like, dude, I literally quoted 'all the time' which was obviously false since as you said it's determinant ; ). And no defending Kenny's actions on this one? What a shame!
[sigh] you're right, actually. I shouldn't.
Jane said it was an accident, Kenny didn't believe it because he created a suposed murder in his head and because of the anger issues he has. There's nothing else to it.
I'll wait patiently for that suposed line of reasoning that makes it so logic that Jane murdered an infant (which she didn't! Lol!). I'm allowed to swear. I was pretty fucking triggered at the moment.
'Good'.
Again, don't make such claims about me for fuck sake. How would you know that I think that? Tyi, I don't picture Jane as some saint that did nothing wrong. I condemn her in some aspects.
Well, yeah!? She had no ties to the group at the moment. No one knew her and she didn't know anybody so she could've just leaf. She didn't because she saw that Rebecca was panicking.
That's a great point you make there Daze. Along with 'Denial' you show to excel at argumentation skills.
Seriously, tho. Are you going to deny that Jane risks her life by staying down until Clem and Sarah leave the trailer through the skylight?
That doesn't make it any less good of her. If she didn't care for the baby she wouldn't be doing it!
Uhhh, what? I'm talking about when the deck colapses and Jane goes down to try to free Sarah?
Oh Kenny definitely is a liability to me. He was so helpful during the first part of Amid The Ruins! And his actions in Episode 5 totally did not contribute to the group's downfall and Arvo shooting Clem.
Still doesn't make it any less good of her. She deliberately ran and risked falling to the ice lake in order to save Clem. That says something.
Humm, I don't know.
'How much food do we have left?'
'About a week'
'And for the baby?'
'Not much'
(...)
'Bonnie said there's formula (for AJ)'
I think that shows worry.
Oh yeah? How so? By staying in a tent? By beating Arvo? By making a baby travel North instead of taking him to a safe place where they knew there was food?
Don't tell me how to write my comments on the internet. And it's a delight to see that you tried to avoid my point by answering with this random statement.
Keeping on avoiding my points I see!
Uh, no I wouldn't? Just because Jane doesn't want to hold AJ makes her mentally deficient? This should go to the stupid theories thread! Oh and I asume that Mike is also mentally deficient since he was clearly uncomfortable holding the baby.
I fail to see how those two things correlate.
Kenny caused the fight directly, which made Jane and him fight to death. Things only went as far as they did because Kenny attacked Jane in the first place. Had him reacted like a normal person and merely asked what had happened, and no fight would've happened in the first place.
I stand by that statement. Jane created a hypothetical situation. Had anyone else been there, even Rebecca, AJ's real mom, and she wouldn't have reacted like that. There was only a fight because Kenny threw a punch at Jane in the first place.
Jane undirectly started the fight. Kenny directly started the fight. There is a difference.
It's hard to when you claim that Kenny 'technically wasn't' trying to murder Jane. What was he doing then? Was he justified when he tried to kill her whithout a shred of hard proof of her suposed crime?
I didn't generalize Kenny's fanbase in any way. I know Kenny fans who can actually admit that he was in the wrong in the fight and I never mentioned that that kind of Kenny fan didn't exist. You don't stike me as one of them for some reason.
No hard feelings
What? Dan, I've said the exact same things about Kenny in the past to you. Remember the argument we had in the 'characters you hate' thread? I believe that I said worse things about him!
I never sugarcoated how I felt about Kenny to you or anyone, lol. Just because I added a few 'fucking''s and 'motherfucking's dosen't make my points any different from the past.
I'm on the verge of my patience with this matter and I guess you can understand that being asked the same things over and over and over again and never actually be heard can make anyone a bit... over agressive.
Well that was just it really. It was overly aggressive but I don't blame you because of what Daze said. But the things you said about Kenny, yes you had said the same with me but i guess you went further to rip him apart due to being so angry with Daze's post.
Anyway I'm staying out of that one
Yes but Jane caused the fight to happen in the first place and she knew he'd get mad. You cannot deny that if she hadn't planned what she did, Kenny would not have tried killing her because he would have had no reason to. I will always be against her in this scene. We both know Kenny was wrong but her actions were just as bad and there's no denying that.
Fair enough. Keeping these arguments up isn't going to take us anywhere. We'll always disagree.
And this shows, yet again, that we desperately need Season 3 to have new topics to talk about!
I know that, Dan! I mentioned quite a few times in my post that she undirectly caused the fight. Please, don't think that I picture Jane as an inocent victim in all this, she obviously also contributed for the fight to happen.
Fair enough, but she didn't know he'd get that mad. Mad enough to kill!
@TWDazehnuu is correct!
Technically speaking, Kenny was attempting to kill Jane, or commit manslaughter. Murder is when you have planned to kill somebody else beforehand. It is clear that Kenny's wish to kill Jane only surfaced after she came back without AJ, which makes it manslaughter and negates murder.
Holy defenitions!
Seriously though, I always thought that murder was when someone killed another without a strong reason. I wasn't even aware that 'manslaughter' was a word!
To make this clear, what I meant was killing someone without a strong reason which Kenny (in my prespective of things) did.
The Telltale Community has taught me more than all my english teachers combined!
(Sorry for the edits. Typos...)
Please stay on topic and do not derail this thread with arguments about other elements of the game's plot, such as the Kenny/Jane choice. Thanks.
I flagged some comments below this comment that had derailed the thread with a Kenny/Jane argument. Let's please stay on topic and avoid unrelated arguments. Thanks!
(This is not a warning in particular towards you, IronWoodLover. I am responding to your comment because it was this comment that started the arguments that eventually derailed the thread before I flagged those posts.)
You are officially awesome, sir.
I especially loved the ending, it's amazing. I would totally choose Kenny and Christa!
I broke the matrix.
All to get that comment through.
As a direct sequel to the milestone entry, Mike will be the topic of this memo.
Like with many other players, Mike was kinda the generic guy that I never really gave much thought about. Indeed, in a cast consisting of a Little Miss Badass who's Wise beyond her years , a Wannabe Paragon with a Hero Complex, a No-nonsense Pregnant Widow, an Anxiously Dependent Woman-child, a Broken Hotheaded Widower, a Regretful Former Addict who is Desperate for Approval , and a Rational yet Bitter Loner, Mike comes off as very normal in comparison. However, after looking back on his character, I actually kinda like him for who he was: just some guy who got on Carver's bad side, but whose patient, helpful, and jokey demeanor proves that he merely has the face of a thug. His rough appearance and cranky introduction made his true personality a bit unexpected and he was an enjoyable side addition to the cast who should've gotten more character focus and screentime.
Certain characteristics about Mike are noticeable in the game that arguably make him a likeable and sympathetic character: he is very friendly, protective, and helpful, jokey when the mood is light, very down to earth when it comes his assessment on the intentions of others, though a bit oafish and scattered with his own but he means well. He looks out for everyone when they make risky decisions or end up in vulnerable positions, very sympathetic towards youths that are put in dangerous situations, is willing to talk things out when others are likely let their emotions control them and is forgiving of those who have wronged/attacked him. These traits show themselves when he came to Arvo's defense when the boy lost his sister and was attacked by Kenny while mourning her, told Clementine that she doesn't have to earn anyone's respect when Kenny volunteers her to get the walkietalkie to Luke, tried to tell Kenny to get off of him while pinned against a window despite actually being very strong himself, and desperately pleaded with Buricko and Vitali not to make him kill them. So, with most characters having a slew of personal issues to sort out and flaws that would often cause problems, it was kinda nice to have Mike be a guy who tries to help them get through it so they can get things done. I just wish we got a little more interaction and backstory with him so that his character actually feels like it has a more significant impact on the story.
As I recently confirmed in the unused plots thread, Mike was originally supposed to be Ralph, one of the guys that cornered Christa by the river, which is why their models look so similar. The original result of the gunshot Clementine hears as she runs away from the group had the bullet nick "Ralph" on the left side of his face and damage his ear. When Mike is officially introduced to the players presumably the following morning of arriving in Carver's Camp, Clementine would recognize him and alert Kenny to his identity. "Ralph" reappearing in Episode 3 would mean that the players would have an opportunity to have him explain what has happened with Christa, but since the writers wanted to keep her disappearance a mystery for the indefinite future, not to mention it was similar to what they were already planning to do with Bonnie (a character is part of a group of bad guys, eventually defects over to the player's group, tries to earn player's trust, etc.), they 'recreated' him as a new character instead and, eventually, he and Bonnie would become sidelined but appreciated comic relief in Amid the Ruins before playing major roles in the plot of No Going Back that would end in their betrayal. Leaving the "Ralph" subplot in the game would have helped propagate a theme of gaining trust, make his penultimate betrayal more poignant, and possibly give us a deliberately vague clue to Christa's whereabouts.
While having him be just some former bandit with a shady background kinda shows how harsh and unexpected the world can be for survivors, I've come up with a welding connection for his possible backstory. I recently thought it would be ironic if he turned out to have connections to Michelle. Maybe he was the Lee to Michelle's Clementine, but unlike those two, they didn't see eye to eye about how they do things and so ended up divorcing their apprenticeship. It could tie in with the whole forgiveness arc that I recently confirmed was supposed to be in the game. While it would give them a common ground, it would sorta showcase a more black/gray and grey/white morality between the two: Michelle tried to rob Clementine and accidentally killed Omid, while "Ralph"'s band ganged up on Christa and tried to kill Clementine. And then, for their parts in these events, Michelle was popped by Christa, Christa was presumably sent off to parts unknown, "Ralph"'s band got wiped out by Clementine, Roman, and/or Carver, and Mike himself got his ear scarred and then got himself captured by Carver's group. It would serve to deliver a message about the cycle of revenge and how it may never end unless one person is man enough to admit to their mistakes and put an end to it. Kinda reminiscent to the Walter-Matthew-Nick situation, except on grander scale and, unlike with Nick, they have to look each other in the eye on a daily basis and thus deal with the consequences of their actions; Nick can even be the one to advise Clementine on this path, since he probably feels guilty that he never got to make it up to Walter before Carver killed him. It would also serve to distance Michelle from Clementine and Mike, who both have feelings revolving around friendship and preserving those who have helped you, and distance Mike from Carver and Jane, who both have policies revolving around self-reliance and killing those who have wronged you.
Should Clementine inquire on Mike's backstory when they get a free moment to talk about their differences, he makes reference to mentoring a scavenger girl with a bad attitude at one point before she decided to go her own way after he disagreed with how she wanted to go about getting supplies. If she sourly brings up that she is probably the one who tried to rob her using her own gun, accidentally killed Christa's husband/baby-daddy Omid due to how obviously untrained she was with one, and then got herself killed over it by Christa, Mike freezes in a conflicted manner, shakes his head a few times as if he doesn't believe her, and obviously tries to hold back his regret before deciding to laugh in spite of his grief. He explains that he actually finds it kinda funny that not only did he go and do exactly what he didn't want Michelle to do despite being the elder, but he also attacked her shooter with a loaded gun handy without even realizing it. If Clementine tries to ask how does knowing this information make him feel, he thinks for a moment to really cycle through and contemplate his emotions before answering that he feels angry and desperate to think otherwise and...sad. She can take advantage of this moment to reveal how she felt when she had to run away and lose contact with Christa or when Omid got shot or when she had to deal with the fact that she killed Lee by shooting/leaving him. If she chooses to do so or not, it basically acts as an additional punch for her to throw his way and can use it alongside Michelle's death to either sympathize with him, ask him for his thoughts on whether he could forgive her, demand to know whether that makes them even, or even go as far as to mock him over what happened to him and Michelle.
While his immediate reaction would vary based on the response, Mike eventually calms himself down enough to simply talk through their similar losses with each other. He begins to furrowedly confess that he is starting to get some of the apprehension she had with being around him, not to mention the bitterness she has no doubt been repressing. Knowing that Clementine is directly responsible for Michelle getting herself killed by Christa does make him feel a little salty, but also...content. What he and Michelle did to her was wrong and while she could've easily kept all of this dirty laundry to herself or had him be dealt with and/or taken out anonymously, he's happy that she was [wo]man enough to accept her feelings and personally confronted him over it. He agrees that he'd rather those circumstances back then didn't cause any more confusion and hopes that it won't get in the way of a settlement for peace now. Though it's ultimately up to Clementine whether she wants to forgive Mike for what he was a part of, the general idea is that Mike is fine with your decision either way because he knows that what he did was terrible and he shouldn't expect her to trust him just because he apologized. If she chooses not to forgive him, Clementine will continue to tolerate his presence in favor of just working together out of an alliance of convenience since they're both trapped in a position where there is a bigger threat controlling their lives, to which Mike respectfully accepts her stance and goes about his business. This shows that Mike is indeed a compassionate and understanding person who only did the bad things he does because he genuinely saw no easier way at the time. I also gives him an edge against the other nebulous parties such as Carver, Troy, Bonnie, or Jane: While Mike and Michelle both have this shady thuggishess about them, they also have enough restraint to be trustworthy or, at the very least, predictable. Of course, Clementine would learn later that Michelle is still alive and has been browbeaten into accepting her place among Carver's citizens as a laborer and expansion worker. She could confer Mike to her presence among the populace so that his earlier heartbreak would be mended and he could have the chance to reconcile his feelings of regret.
Another aspect of his character that I thought was a bit unconventional was his relationship with Jane, or rather lackthereof. I understand that two characters who are introduced in the same manner don't need to be linked for the rest of their screentime, but you would think there would be some connection. From what I gather, Mike mentioned that Jane vouching for Kenny's escape plan to walk through a herd was the first thing he ever heard her say--and it was crazy and stupid. I at least got the vibe that they respected each other enough to stay out of each other's way while in the pin and agree with the other's opinion of what the rational course of action would be. So, having them at least acknowledge each other's presence would work fine enough. Depending on how the players interacted with the two women previously, as well as how they react to the situation as it is underway, Mike would be in position to help Jane pull Sarah up the half collapsed deck should she successfully save the latter after the fall is revealed to have crippled her. She and a tearfully happy Bonnie would move her into the garage with Kenny and Rebecca while Mike helps Clementine deal with the walkers that followed Jane's example. Another detail I didn't notice until recently was that after finishing talking with Kenny in time for Clementine to come clean his wound, Jane walks away to join in on a conversation with Mike and Arvo. I would kill to know what these three were discussing at the time, since not only is it one of the few times Mike and Jane interact with each other, but Arvo is also apparently part of the conversation. I think it would have been a great oppurtunity to not only develop Mike's friendship with Arvo and growing fear of Kenny, but it could also try to fix/justify a serious problem with Jane's character....(See the very bottom of the post for elaboration because this isn't about her).
His role from that point on would be roughly the same, with him coming to Arvo's defense with Luke despite having been shot, and finally the beginnings of his growing intolerance of Kenny's behavior, with his beating Arvo into a bloody pulp over the conditions of his house being the last straw. That gloomy night, when Clementine is awakened by the sound of a conveniently loose rope at the window, she finds Mike and Arvo putting his bag of supplies in the truck while looking for the keys and, not wanting a repeat of Vernon and the Cancer survivors, draws her gun on them and the also team-changing (possibly in more ways than one) misandrist Bonnie, who just can’t stay in one group for long. Properly paranoid by this point, Arvo draws a gun of his own and keeps his aim on her (♪MEMORIES! Of the way that we were! ♪) while having enough trust in Mike to allow him the chance to reason with her. Immediately after turning around, Mike moves towards her and tries to keep her calm; when she threatens him to stop, he and Bonnie do so with guilty tones, which seems to indicate that they obviously didn't want her to see them like that. Mike honestly explains that they just need to get away from "that guy" because he didn't give them any choice(with Arvo outright calling him pure evil), despite knowing that Clementine's preexisting history and feelings around him would only complicate things. When she shows signs of potentially getting upset when she realizes they're afraid of Kenny, Mike takes a moment to make the best decision before setting down the bag and, in spite of the possibility that Clementine could easily gun him down or alert the others, starts to ease his way towards Clementine to get her gun so they can talk things out.
While more negative minded players could take this as a sign that he never really changed and run with it, those with a more neutral disposition would be able to see the intention: stealing the supplies really is nothing personal. His past actions and antagonism against Clementine stayed in the past, he just was pressured into stealing again due to his own standards and limitations concerning Kenny and his previously established bottled up regrets as a survivor: Arvo would be his second chance to make things right like he should've done with Michelle. I'm pretty sure Mike and Bonnie(and, to a lesser degree, Arvo) were meant to have genuinely turned over a new leaf or at most given in to their true friendly natures. The fact that all three had been enemies to begin with (Mike was one of the bandits that (possibly, but most likely) killed Christa, Bonnie was initially working as a guard and informant for Carver, and Arvo and his group tried to rob everyone after Jane and Clementine stuck him up) does sort of muddy the waters, admittedly, but their decision was not completely wrong: Jane, Bonnie, and Mike feeling nervous around Kenny after spending so much time around Carver is understandable and Arvo learned this firsthand through very little provocation of his own. The implication that fear is what brought them together and also convinced them that it’s ok to leave a two day old baby and a preteen girl to starve to death would make it apparent that they really just made the decision as soon as the oppurtunity presented itself and didn't have time to consider the consequences. The fact that Clementine may not even bring AJ up doesn't really give her much leeway to convince them that their wrong for wanting to leave and I would like to think that Mike would be conflicted if she did.
As Mike approaches Clementine to hopefully get her to put down the gun so they can talk, you have four options at this point: ask to join Mike, threaten him to give up, warn him that you'll shoot, or call for help. While, on one hand, reinstating his original death scene would give the more vengeful players a chance to take out their frustrations with this development, I personally would rather he live. Because, on the other hand, we get a fitting character moment that really nails home the point of his forgiveness arc: he would be conscious, like in the final game, to witness yet another ally let him down when Arvo shoots Clementine. This would also make Arvo's decision to shoot Clementine regardless of her actions actually have a little more impact, as he seemed to be genuinely concerned about Mike's safety but he had truly crossed the line because he still decided to do so against his wishes so he could get revenge for Natasha. After Clementine drops to the ground and Arvo stumbles to his escape in a panic, Mike and Bonnie express shock that this happened and are concerned for all of their wellbeings now. Deciding that they need to go to avoid Kenny's wrath , he tries to convince Bonnie that if she is the first to go to Clementine's side; On the otherhand, Mike himself also wants to help Clementine since he obviously didn't want anyone else to get hurt but decides to follow Bonnie and leave under the hopes that Clementine is in good hands. Once again, Mike has failed to convince a youth to do things in an orderly fashion and now he has to presumbably live knowing that a little girl may have died because he took pity on someone who was nominally her enemy.
The reason these suggestions are usually so brief in scope are because I'm trying to work within the framework of what the final product implies could've or actually did happen. My eventual entry on Michelle may not be a trend breaker either. I plan on doing some more thorough suggestions in the future, but for right now, I'll just hit on general thoughts.
EDIT:For future reference/convenience.
I'd also want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Omid, Becca3, Michelle5, Nick, Alvin, Sarah1, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph6, and Natasha4. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Becca3, Michelle5, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha4 would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.
Sorry, forgot to add this in during the editing process.
As I've stated before, Jane came off as unintentonally unsympathetic in this episode because of the baggage that didn't carry over properly from Amid the Ruins: her absentminded implication that Rebecca could get rid of the baby, trying to repeatedly convince Clementine to give up on the group, being the one who decided to rob and threaten Arvo, making Luke the offer that caused him to shirk his guard duty, her role in both of Sarah's deaths and her abandonment of the group before the final scene, which meant she avoided the brunt of the Russian attack. The fact that most of this is water under the bridge in this episode despite the horrible connotations of some just didn't feel right; the only true exceptions are Jane's apology to Clementine for leaving, Luke and Bonnie's visual skepticism towards her initial reappearance and a complainer is wrong moment with Kenny("Don't try and pin this on me."). Back on topic, having Jane and Mike discuss having Arvo along and their role in it could've help address this by having Jane and Arvo actually interact towards each other's presence. While she didn't necessarily disagree with killing Arvo, Jane seemed to think he was useful enough to use for supplies and got angry with Kenny for beating him so badly; Arvo actually having a chance to be around Jane without Clementine and Kenny would also address whether he still holds a grudge against her, avoids contact out of fear, or if Clementine and Kenny simply overshadowed what little beef he had with her and he is mutually indifferent. Seeing as Arvo wasn't exactly in a speaking mood at the time, I would like to think Clementine popping into the conversation would potentially have Jane officially apologize to both for starting the conflict with the Russians in the first place. As unlikely as it may sound, Jane was consistently softened around Clementine so I would've liked to think she would admit her wrongdoings when she isn't feeling pressured or on trial.
Thanks for this DabigRG
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water and eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
I'm just thinking about if he were Ralph, he would have been taken in by Carver but let's say a day has passed since Clem fell in the water and eventually met Luke and Pete. Nevermind I was just wondering how many days passed so Mike can meet Reggie and cut his arm off.
Double Post, lol.
Not sure what you're suggesting exactly but I'll make my best guess: You're questioning how long "Ralph" would've had to heal from his wound before being captured by Carver and thrown into the pin with Reggie?
If so, it seemed to have been implied that Clementine spent days around the Cabin (Day 1.Clementine is separated from Christa, chased by Winston, and falls into river. Day 2.Clementine spends time with and eventually attacked by Sam, found find Luke and Pete, locked in the shed, helped by Alvin and/or Sarah, and finally welcomed into the group. Day 3.Clementine, Nick, and Pete go on a fishing/hunting trip, Victor is found dehydrated and wounded amongst Roman's gang, Pete is bitten, Clementine spends the day before evening with Nick/Pete in hiding, Nick/Pete sacrifice himself so she can escape. Day 4.Clementine arrives back at the Cabin, is left alone with Soci- I mean Sarah, plays dumb with "George," and finally is brought along with the group on Carlos' advice. Day 5-9. Traveling and implied character development. Day 10.Five days later, the Cabin group arrive outside the bridge, the misunderstanding with Matthew, Kenny is alive, bonding in the Ski resort, Carver's scouting party shows up, and everyone minus Walter, Alvin(determinate), and Luke is taken captive. Day 11-13.Episode 3 happens.)
I'd say that leaves a relatively ample time frame for Mike to be integrated into Carver's camp and save Reggie from his arm.
To be honest, I completely forgot to talk about his connections with Reggie, Bonnie, Victor, Taavia, and Carver. Might be something to keep in mind for the future installments, eh.
Looking back at this, I realized I should've added a little more to make the Rebecca choice mean a little more. Maybe later.
Also, it just occured to me that Sarah would be hobbling on a cobblestone road with a broken leg in a makeshift cast with a gun in her hand-- IN THE FREEZING COLD! If that ain't determination, I don't know what is!
Forgive me if this was addressed but what is the purpose of having Mike kidnap Sarah if he isn't shot other than the give a reason why he gets away? Is this meant to be a sequel hook or a downer ending?
Shameless repost, lol
Uhhh... honestly, I was just making shit up as I wrote. I figured it would be a nice aditional branch since Sarah can't die in that canon, she could, at least been taken away.
But it can also be a 'sequel hook' for Season 3. Let's say Clem bumps into Mike's group in Season 3.
Sarah's character would be completely different depending on if you shot Mike or not. Like, if she was 'educated' by Bonnie and Shel during the time skip she'd still be slightly cowardly and more dishonest, but if she was 'educated' by Clem during the time skip she'd be more fearless.
Idk, I'm yet again making stuff up.
Oh, okay. It was just such a wtf moment plotwise that I had to ask. It doesn't help that Sarah is definitely my favorite Season 2 character.
Actually, the Michelle contribution I did kinda had that with the "forward-backstory."
I posted this in the Dead Characters Potential thread. Not really canon to my other entries.
The Russians are a Necessary Weasel example on top of being a rulebreaker.
The slide for Amid the Ruins has Clementine smearing blood on her face as if preparing for war, with numerous silhouettes behind her. I've seen some people theorize that this meant there was supposed to be a dispute between two groups that Clementine would play a role in. Having Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali, with optional assistance from some other characters, act as the opposing side after Jane and Clementine started the conflict by sticking up Arvo would've serve this end and have a legitimate gray vs. grey conflict, with the "heroes" and the antagonists having some people on their side that are more heroic and sympathetic than others. Maybe have Clementine act as a go between since she attempted to convince Jane that this was a bad idea, with another character (possibly an old character like Becca, Tisha, Taavia, etc.) doing the same for the other side.
Interesting
Frankly, I just wish Ben could've survived the Events of season 1, seeing him mature from a Spineless detriment to a Full-fledged survivor would've been an amazing transformation, not to mention some more background detail regarding his Family and his time in the gym during the 3 months after the initial outbreak. He would've been a good guy to see Clementine develop with, plus maybe let Clementine (If she was brought to Crawford) explain why she saw Ben as a friend.
You're very welcome, mate!
Not sure what you're suggesting exactly but I'll make my best guess: You're questioning how long "Ralph" would've had to heal from his wound before being captured by Carver and thrown into the pin with Reggie?
If so, it seemed to have been implied that Clementine spent days around the Cabin (Day 1.Clementine is separated from Christa, chased by Winston, and falls into river. Day 2.Clementine spends time with and eventually attacked by Sam, found find Luke and Pete, locked in the shed, helped by Alvin and/or Sarah, and finally welcomed into the group. Day 3.Clementine, Nick, and Pete go on a fishing/hunting trip, Victor is found dehydrated and wounded amongst Roman's gang, Pete is bitten, Clementine spends the day before evening with Nick/Pete in hiding, Nick/Pete sacrifice himself so she can escape. Day 4.Clementine arrives back at the Cabin, is left alone with Soci- I mean Sarah, plays dumb with "George," and finally is brought along with the group on Carlos' advice. Day 5-9. Traveling and implied character development. Day 10.Five days later, the Cabin group arrive outside the bridge, the misunderstanding with Matthew, Kenny is alive, bonding in the Ski resort, Carver's scouting party shows up, and everyone minus Walter, Alvin(determinate), and Luke is taken captive. Day 11-13.Episode 3 happens.)
I'd say that leaves a relatively ample time frame for Mike to be integrated into Carver's camp and save Reggie from his arm.
To be honest, I completely forgot to talk about his connections with Reggie, Bonnie, Victor, Taavia, and Carver. Might be something to keep in mind for the future installments, eh.
Alright, another thought I had. This isn't so much change to deceased,determinant or unknown characters, but rather a change to the story in general.
The change begins after the shootout with the Russians. Kenny grabs Arvo and uses him as a sheild/hostage to protect himself from the crazy Russians trying to kill him. This scene pretty much plays out exactly like how it did in the game, with Jane stepping in to save Kenny from the Russian shooting at him, thereby ending the shootout. Kenny loses it at Arvo and anyone who stands in his way and sticks up for Arvo will be executed by Kenny then and there for disloyalty, including (regretfully) Clementine if she opens her mouth, or if she stuck up for Arvo earlier when Kenny used him as a sheild (so basically everyone except Jane, Arvo and determinantly Clementine).
If Clementine is killed then Jane takes over as playable character. After leaning over Clementines corpse and shedding a tear (I mean this is Jane we're talking about here so she wouldn't exactly be blubbering or anything) she grabs a gun, points it at Kenny and angrily demands to know why he just wiped out the entire team. Kenny then emotionally explains that the group had show him disloyalty for the last time by taking Arvo's side over his and that if they had lived, they would have eventually betrayed both of them (which is actually true of Bonnie and Mike). Kenny then says that it's up to him and Jane now to be strong, protect each other and lead AJ to safety. Jane reluctantly agrees with him for now. Arvo pleads for his life and says he can take them to a food and safety... Jane convinces Kenny that it can't hurt to check the place out and that they should tie him up. Kenny reluctantly agrees. Jane, Kenny, Arvo and AJ then start their journey to wherever Arvo is taking them.
If Clementine lives then it plays out similarly to season 2 that we got. Jane demands to know why Kenneth killed the group, Clementine tells Jane that he was right to kill the group and that they could not be trusted. Arvo takes them to his hideout, Kenny vs Jane eventually happens and the season 2 endings are all more or less how they were in the game.
Maybe you never told them any joke, or they never had the courage to admit you're funny. Perhaps they don't know you enough
I'm sorry for the double-post, accidentally done.
That is some excellent writing right there! Your post is very well-thought and has a lot of smart ideas and plot twists. I found many of your ideas interesting and I agree that some deaths should have been handled better, like Omid's death, I think this one was just rushed. I admire the way you think, how you closed some plot holes and how you gave everyone a chance for character development. I'm not exaggerating anything here (Although that's questionable), but I believe that Telltale, and probably other companies, need people like you. This was totally worth reading and I can't wait till you come up with some more ideas (If you're planning to).
Great work, thumbs up and kudos to you!
Woooah...going for the Cell Games, don't ya think?
You're welcome! I'm just surprised that nobody ever told you this. You seem like a great guy.
You can always hit me up if you need anything!
Not an actual contribution(I am planning it, though just trying to make a
decision) but I thought in celebration of my milestone post(as in fifth), I would do a brief recap of all the suggestions I’ve made to this topic. Feel free to go back to the original posts for the full original experience!
1. Sarah, Being nice edition: Trailer park scene almost exactly the same, minus any future plans for Nick. More interaction with her during the baby delivery setup and role in the lead up to the observation deck scene should remain the same (whether she actually participates in the fight or not, I’m fine with—for now…). When the deck collapses, she determinately tries to help Clementine/Jane/Luke escape but ends up falling regardless and--if we're still pretending it makes a lick of sense--is buried under the rubble and needs Jane to come help her. You have two choices: Save Jane or Help Sarah.
If you save Jane, you actually see Sarah get chewed to rub in the fact that you just gave up on Sarah and "killing one in order to save many is part of survival" and yadda x 3.
If you help Sarah, Jane can successfully pull Sarah free but you later learn she hurt her left leg in the fall. Sarah can still determinately die due to: the board hitting Jane(no reason given, probably random), Sarah hitting Jane in the shin(Mean to Sarah), Jane losing her grip due to clawing Walkers(Mean to Jane), Jane decides to simply kill Sarah(random based on walk back), or Sarah telling Jane to just go(random based on pep talk).
Mike would be in position to help Jane pull Sarah up the half collapsed deck should she successfully save the latter after the fall is revealed to have crippled her. She and a tearfully happy Bonnie would move her into the garage with Kenny and Rebecca while Mike helps Clementine deal with the walkers that followed Jane's example.Sarah is brought alongside Luke for exercise after Jane leaves. After Luke and Kenny argue, she gets talking to from Clementine, who can: go off on her (frustration), reaffirm the walk back talk (patience/acceptance), or show happiness (kindness). Sarah responds out of either guilt, understanding, or resolve that she has somewhat accepted that Carlos is dead and that she is going to literally(ha ha) start pulling her own weight from now on. Especially now that she has to grow up and set an example for the baby.
After fade to black, she is seen limping behind the group in a makeshift caste with a gun. When Arvo shows up, she mostly keeps quiet but could probably ask if he's friendly. She may cautiously grab for her gun when you answer and nervously steps closer to Clementine when the Russians come out. When Rebecca turns, she can be seen going into her panic mode and glancing around; if you do nothing, Sarah glances at Clementine one last time shakily and makes her only walker kill, as Buricko opens fire shortly afterwards.
When No Turning Back begins, Sarah's bleeding body isn't too far away from where Rebecca and the baby are, with her arms/shoulders clearly pointed in its general direction. When the fight is done and over with, Clementine and Jane look over her corpse before joining the other group members around Rebecca.
Purpose: The basic idea is to have her gun training pay off in some way, be a not so similar contrast with Arvo, has a not so different moment with Clementine, a proper bookend made of her positive traits, the avoidance of a character derailment for Jane, gives Clementine a legitimate reason to determinately be angry with Arvo at this point, and also properly reinforcing what Carver and Jane were saying by having her die because that's just the way the people of the world works now.
2. Mr. David Parker: As in the final game, if Lee chops off his leg to get him out of the bear trap, Travis will get devoured by walkers and David will be brought back to the motor inn, where he bleeds to death and becomes the first non-bite victim to turn onscreen; now if Lee doesn't help David, Travis will get angry and try to grab Mark's gun to save him, getting himself shot and forcing everyone to abandon David to be eaten…except he would later be found by Lee at the St. John's dairy if you left Mr. Parker behind in the bear trap, where he would be the one having both legs chopped off by Danny instead of Mark.
Purpose: It would've created a greater sense of continuity where a previously red shirt character would come back into the story just to nail home the twist involving the St. John's.
3. Becca: She seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character is essentially a very classist bully that would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attitude. Shel could either have been handwaved into the story by stating that things with Vince/Shel didn't work out and she eventually abandoned him/her in favor of joining Taavia at Howe's Hardware; alternatively, she would still be around but just wouldn't show up very often outside of a character establishing moment, some inbetween filler, preparing for the walker invasion later on, and maybe being nearby during Becca's determinate death. She could determinately die at the hands of either Clementine, Troy, Carver, the Walkers, or even Sarah. If she survives her encounter, she wasn't strong enough to succeed over these troublemakers and thus would be driven to improve herself so that she can truly survive, which would leave a thread open for Becca to return as a greater enemy/ally in the future.
Purpose: She is the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content. Plus, I freely admit that having her fight Clementine is pure fanservice.
4. Natasha/“Maud”: Natasha is Arvo’s older sister and seemingly the voice of reason of the Russian Group. It goes unmentioned in the game proper, but Natasha suffers from sickle cell anemia, a disease that causes periodic episodes of pain through the blockage of tiny blood vessels in the chest and bones; this matches up with what Arvo mentioned before. However, despite having this sickness, Natasha still accompanies the group to ambush the Howe’s Ski Cabin group, causing some people to doubt the validity of the idea that she was sick and assume Arvo was just lying. I’d argue this is a sign of what type of person Natasha herself is: bold (refusing to just back down despite being almost as unimposing as Arvo), no-nonsense (yells at Kenny and Bonnie to put down their guns), vigilant (prowling around Bonnie like a damn lion), supportive (encouraging of her timid little brother), and sensible (smart enough to realize when things are going to end badly).
Honestly, the fact that I’ve seen several people refer to Arvo and his group as just bandits feels like a bit of a cheap hand wave to me. However, I won’t deny that it isn’t out of the realms of possibility: the exact nature of her connection to Buricko and Vitali(who both just scream obviously evil) is unknown, though I personally believe she is a member of their ‘gang,’ Arvo is just tagging along because of his familial connection to her, and Maud, her original game in the games’ files, could still be used as her street name. This headcanon was inspired by the fact that not only does Vitali claim that Arvo is dead to him when Kenny threatens to kill the boy, but Natasha comes off as a bit intimidating herself, despite barely having five lines. I even retroactively assume that it was Natasha’s idea to get payback in the first place: if Clementine tells Kenny and Luke that Arvo might be mad at them, they calmly tell him that they don’t think he’s alone, which causes Natasha to casually reveal herself first rather than last with her gun pointed at them. It was her medicine at stake in the first place and the fact that it and her little brother were threatened would no doubt anger her. In her only scene, she: confirms with her brother that these are the people that robbed him, recognizes how badly this will turn out and hysterically demands Kenny and Bonnie to lower their guns.
When I said Natasha would still play a relatively minor role in the story, what I meant was that not only is her character not the most charitable when it comes to adding to the story—there really isn’t that much space to give her any spotlight. Her only scene has her die at the end; you can’t really alter that because it’s such a crucial plot development. Developing Natasha would require spending time in flashbacks and cutaways outside of Clementine’s reach and having her spend any substantial amount of time with the non-English speaking Natasha would detract from that tense cliffhanger. So unfortunately, this sounds like more the type of thing that would necessitate an OVA or an episodic DLC in the vein of 400 Days. So, unfortunately, all I can suggest is possibly giving Natasha more dialogue during the ambush to flesh her out a little more.
Purpose: Not gonna lie, I sincerely wanted to highlight her character more but there's just no room. Maybe someday....
Here’s is a table of contents for old times sake!:
I want to get more mileage out of Mark, Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Omid, Becca3, Michelle5, Nick, Alvin, Sarah1, Sarita, Taavia, Reggie, Mike/Ralph6, and Natasha4. They all felt like there should have been more to them and the story could have benefited from their increased presence.
Though Mr. Parker2, Chuck, Becca3, Michelle5, Alvin, Reggie, and Natasha4 would still play relatively minor roles, just with more spotlight and development than they got.