So you say it is smart to not befriend Sarah? Maybe, maybe not...I think that with time Jane and Clementine could have helped Sarah become … morebetter able to survive. At first and I admit that for long time I have been anti Sarah, but @DabigRG has changed my view on her.
To be perfectly fair, Jane had been in that same situation before and knew how it ended. PTSD and Depression fucks people up, man. And one of the most common things I've had that combination do for me is associate new situations with past situations, meaning despite the fact that a similar situation could end differently from the last time it happened, you find it hard to believe it would. In all honesty, if I were in Jane's position with her awful fucked up head? I'd do the exact same because I wouldn't be thinking. All I'd be thinking about is "This is exactly like what happened to Jamie, I can't save her, she doesn't want to be saved, if I try then the entire group dies too and I don't want that."
It's entirely likely if Jane had picked up Sarah and moved on then it would have been completely different from what happened with Jamie, but when you're fucked up as bad as Jane is? You don't think about that. All you think about is what happened, and you associate that with what will happen. Honestly I'm completely fine with you shitting on Jane for hiding the baby, inciting violence with Kenny, abandoning the group in E4 and being overall bitchy, but to criticize her for something she can't control is really low. When I was younger my "friend" took me into the woods to meet with his other friends, and then he tried to kill me. And now every single time I go out with friends I'm terrified they'll do the same.
It's not something I can control, and despite my many attempts to do so I still get genuinely scared when I have to go meet up with people. Some people are so fucked up they associate the present with the past, and there are plenty of clues that Jane is doing the same thing. Her mental disorders should not excuse her actions, but god fucking dammit I expect people to have the tiniest shred of sympathy and understanding of where she's coming from. You don't have to forgive her for shit, but don't berate her for her mental disorders clouding her judgement. After all, Sarah and Jane aren't too unlike each other. They both have severe PTSD and Depression, they both just handle it differently. Come on man, I know you, you're above shitting on people for things they can't control. Shit on Jane for the actually fucking stupid shit she's done with no excuses.
sarahh was retarded. its a simple truth. nothing good can come out of being friend with retard in zombie apocalypse. she couldnt survive.. she couldnt even cut the flowers in episode 3.
Honestly I'm completely fine with you shitting on Jane for hiding the baby, inciting violence with Kenny, abandoning the group in E4 and being overall bitchy, but to criticize her for something she can't control is really low. After all, Sarah and Jane aren't too unlike each other. They both have severe PTSD and Depression, they both just handle it differently.
To be perfectly fair, Jane had been in that same situation before and knew how it ended. PTSD and Depression fucks people up, man. And one o… moref the most common things I've had that combination do for me is associate new situations with past situations, meaning despite the fact that a similar situation could end differently from the last time it happened, you find it hard to believe it would. In all honesty, if I were in Jane's position with her awful fucked up head? I'd do the exact same because I wouldn't be thinking. All I'd be thinking about is "This is exactly like what happened to Jamie, I can't save her, she doesn't want to be saved, if I try then the entire group dies too and I don't want that."
It's entirely likely if Jane had picked up Sarah and moved on then it would have been completely different from what happened with Jamie, but when you're fucked up as bad as Jane is? You don't think about that. All you think about is what happ… [view original content]
You don't know that for sure, though. Even if she was/is, Sarah still shows signs of having decent common sense (most of the time :P), some awareness of how the world works despite Carlos's insistence that she doesn't, is implied to have some extra skill, and even demonstrates the ability to improvise under stress a few times. And you have to remember that Sarah went through the things she did in such a relatively short span of time that expecting her to immediately bounce back from something she has little to no experience is being unrealistic. It doesn't help that what happened at the observation deck was such a blatant unnecessary copout.
Honestly I'm completely fine with you shitting on Jane for hiding the baby, inciting violence with Kenny, abandoning the group in E4 and bei… moreng overall bitchy, but to criticize her for something she can't control is really low. After all, Sarah and Jane aren't too unlike each other. They both have severe PTSD and Depression, they both just handle it differently.
Cloo knows her shit, son!.
To be perfectly fair, Jane had been in that same situation before and knew how it ended. PTSD and Depression fucks people up, man. And one o… moref the most common things I've had that combination do for me is associate new situations with past situations, meaning despite the fact that a similar situation could end differently from the last time it happened, you find it hard to believe it would. In all honesty, if I were in Jane's position with her awful fucked up head? I'd do the exact same because I wouldn't be thinking. All I'd be thinking about is "This is exactly like what happened to Jamie, I can't save her, she doesn't want to be saved, if I try then the entire group dies too and I don't want that."
It's entirely likely if Jane had picked up Sarah and moved on then it would have been completely different from what happened with Jamie, but when you're fucked up as bad as Jane is? You don't think about that. All you think about is what happ… [view original content]
If Carlos didn't treat Sarah like she was weak and trained her to be dependent on him and not teach her to defend herself, if a person can teach a 8yr old little girl like clem (season one) to shoot a gun they could've showed Sarah to do so too.
sarahh was retarded. its a simple truth. nothing good can come out of being friend with retard in zombie apocalypse. she couldnt survive.. she couldnt even cut the flowers in episode 3.
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Uh...I think I get what you're referencing, but care to explain anyway?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideals that could put her fragile autism at risk.
Given what she's told after being slapped into getting to safety and what she does when trouble strikes again, I think it's safe to say that Sarah knows not to drag her feet anymore--especially when Jane is around.
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideas that could put her fragile autism at risk.
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Uh...I think I get what you… more're referencing, but care to explain anyway?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideals that could put her fragile autism at risk.
Given what she's told after being slapped into getting to safety and what she does when trouble strikes again, I think it's safe to say that Sarah knows not to drag her feet anymore--especially when Jane is around.
You don't mean the fact that she's an older chick who has trouble in social situations, can come off as creepy at first, has a tendency to ignore the feelings of others, shows symptoms of a personality disorder, suffers from PTSD due to the death of a family member, insists on having Clementine even if it cause her to go against her usual standards, and might even be unhealthily obsessed with her, do you?
I think I get what you're referencing, but care to explain anyway?
You know what I'm referencing. Believe me.
I think it's saf… moree to say that Sarah knows not to drag her feet anymore--especially when Jane is around.
That shouldn't be a problem for her.
If Sarah lives i believe that she would run away back to the cabin believing that her father is still there, Giving her a unknown status.Her being in the later plots would ruining the story.
Sarah couldn't survive period.
You don't know that for sure, though. Even if she was/is, Sarah still shows signs of having decent co… moremmon sense (most of the time :P), some awareness of how the world works despite Carlos's insistence that she doesn't, is implied to have some extra skill, and even demonstrates the ability to improvise under stress a few times. And you have to remember that Sarah went through the things she did in such a relatively short span of time that expecting her to immediately bounce back from something she has little to no experience is being unrealistic. It doesn't help that what happened at the observation deck was such a blatant unnecessary copout.
If Sarah lives i believe that she would run away back to the cabin believing that her father is still there, Giving her a unknown status.
I don't know, I doubt she'd just up and leave the group or Clementine in particular. Especially to pursue something she almost certainly knows can't be real.
Her being in the later plots would ruining the story.
I sorta had a similar thought not too long ago, but I'm gonna keep those thoughts out of the conversation for the moment.
Now as for the "ruin" part, how so?
If Sarah lives i believe that she would run away back to the cabin believing that her father is still there, Giving her a unknown status.Her being in the later plots would ruining the story.
If Sarah lives i believe that she would run away back to the cabin believing that her father is still there, Giving her a unknown status.
… more
I don't know, I doubt she'd just up and leave the group or Clementine in particular. Especially to pursue something she almost certainly knows can't be real.
Her being in the later plots would ruining the story.
I sorta had a similar thought not too long ago, but I'm gonna keep those thoughts out of the conversation for the moment.
Now as for the "ruin" part, how so?
I know. Clementine can tell her straight up that she saw him die and that she needs to face that. Given Sarah's previously established hidden depths, her broken explanation back in trailer, the brief conversation during the walk back and something about the way she says this gives off the vibe that she's intentionally trying to delude herself so she doesn't have to think about it.
No, but seriously though, how do you think having her present would ruin the last episode?
I know. Clementine can tell her straight up that she saw him die and that she needs to face that. Given Sarah's previously established hidde… moren depths, her broken explanation back in trailer, the brief conversation during the walk back and something about the way she says this gives off the vibe that she's intentionally trying to delude herself so she doesn't have to think about it.
No, but seriously though, how do you think having her present would ruin the last episode?
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideas that could put her fragile autism at risk.
I think this is probably my favorite comment on this thread. Because you aren't biased towards one side or the other and it's somewhat accurate in almost every way. +1 for that one.
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideas that could put her fragile autism at risk.
I think this is probably my favorite comment on this thread. Because you aren't biased towards one side or the other and it's somewhat accurate in almost every way. +1 for that one.
I take that back. She would make the splinting of the group interesting.
Huh. You're right, though I thought you were actually referring to an in-universe variation of this:
Would Mike and Bonnie leave still? Would Sarah defend Arvo from Kenny, seeing that she just lost her family,too?
That is a number one example of how much of a waste/copout Sarah's canon death was.:
What would be her take on Arvo and his situation? Would she be willing to forgive him or even welcome him into the group?
Would she side with everyone else (and by technical extension Jane) in defending him or would she suddenly default to Kenny's side for similar reasons?
Is her chosen side based on which side Clementine is on or are there other reasons for her choice?
Is it really a good idea for Kenny to treat Arvo the way he did in front of her, someone who outright states that she hates the thought of people hurting each other? How long would she tolerate Kenny's treatment of Arvo before it became too much? And, worst case scenario, what if she felt had to stop Kenny from hurting Arvo or keep everyone else off of his back?
If Arvo is really even a quarter as the conniver that some people seem to think he is, is it truly safe to have Sarah be near him in such a battered and volatile state? Or alternatively, is it safe for Arvo to be around Sarah in such an emotionally broken and psychologically defeated state?
Would she try to stop Mike from turning Arvo loose and/or taking all of the food or would she be willing to look the other way?
This situation, much like her Aggressive Categorism from Jane, would've been an interesting test of her moral character after losing Carlos, but apparently she would've been too much a game breaker or some bullshit. It will forever baffle as to how the same episode where Sarah is recovering from her breakdown and knowingly facing the possibility to being left/purged by Clementine/Jane is also the same episode to introduce Arvo(who can be seen as an evil counterpart or shadow archetype to her, with a similar appearance, demeanor, and motivation) as an antagonist--and they do NOTHING with this despite the obvious parallels and the subtle setup for something involving Sarah later.
Would the Alone ending result in them going back to the Cabin where you have to decide on whether to let Sarah commit suicide or convince her to live.
That's heavy man. But I feel like that would've been a much more understandable choice given Clementine and Sarah's characters.
No, but seriously though, how do you think having her present would ruin the last episode?
I take that back. She would make the spli… morenting of the group interesting.
Would Mike and Bonnie leave still? Would Sarah defend Arvo from Kenny, seeing that she just lost her family,too?
Would Sarah be the one that discovers that Mike and Bonnie leaving, telling Clem, Then Clem get shot?
Would the Alone ending result in them going back to the Cabin where you have to decide on whether to let Sarah commit suicide or convince her to live.
Actually, it's not as cut and dry as that: Jane had kept Jaime going across mutiple states and she only left her because they got stuck in a situation where they were trapped on a rooftop with walkers on the way up and no way to escape besides hopping across to some nearby buildings. Jane couldn't convince Jaime to jump and obviously couldn't throw her, so she simply got very cold with her out of frustration and left her to get herself to safety. She then assumed the worst when Jaime didn't rendevouz with her after the fact and didn't have the guts to go back and try to find her, so she doesn't even know if Jaime actually died or not.
This is what makes her treatment of Sarah (and by extension, Clementine) seem all the more cruel: Sarah just had her breakdown hours ago, Clementine knew her longer than either of them knew Jane herself, and the way to safety was a few steps to the left, but Jane simply refused to think that they could actually save her and pressured Clementine into potentially leaving her. She was ironically just like Sarah at that point in that she putting her own feelings and psychological issues before the situation before her without truly taking Clementine's feelings into account. The fact that she insists that this is still true when Clementine saves Sarah, claims that Sarah is gonna destroy the group along with herself, and constantly compares her as being just like Jaime even posthumously shows that she simply couldn't comprehend that what she went through wasn't the only way that situation would play out, when the truth of the matter is that not all people react the same to trauma and she herself could've mutually helped Sarah recover if she just gave her a chance.
No...... Jane gave up on her own sister who couldn't pull her own weight anymore, what makes you think she wants to relive that with Sarah?
… more
Jane likes Clem as a friend/sister because Clem is capable and survival minded. Sarah is the opposite of that.
Comments
Really now?
Not sure what did it, but nice to hear that!
Okay, I thought you were specifically responding to my "talk to the hand" comment.
To be perfectly fair, Jane had been in that same situation before and knew how it ended. PTSD and Depression fucks people up, man. And one of the most common things I've had that combination do for me is associate new situations with past situations, meaning despite the fact that a similar situation could end differently from the last time it happened, you find it hard to believe it would. In all honesty, if I were in Jane's position with her awful fucked up head? I'd do the exact same because I wouldn't be thinking. All I'd be thinking about is "This is exactly like what happened to Jamie, I can't save her, she doesn't want to be saved, if I try then the entire group dies too and I don't want that."
It's entirely likely if Jane had picked up Sarah and moved on then it would have been completely different from what happened with Jamie, but when you're fucked up as bad as Jane is? You don't think about that. All you think about is what happened, and you associate that with what will happen. Honestly I'm completely fine with you shitting on Jane for hiding the baby, inciting violence with Kenny, abandoning the group in E4 and being overall bitchy, but to criticize her for something she can't control is really low. When I was younger my "friend" took me into the woods to meet with his other friends, and then he tried to kill me. And now every single time I go out with friends I'm terrified they'll do the same.
It's not something I can control, and despite my many attempts to do so I still get genuinely scared when I have to go meet up with people. Some people are so fucked up they associate the present with the past, and there are plenty of clues that Jane is doing the same thing. Her mental disorders should not excuse her actions, but god fucking dammit I expect people to have the tiniest shred of sympathy and understanding of where she's coming from. You don't have to forgive her for shit, but don't berate her for her mental disorders clouding her judgement. After all, Sarah and Jane aren't too unlike each other. They both have severe PTSD and Depression, they both just handle it differently. Come on man, I know you, you're above shitting on people for things they can't control. Shit on Jane for the actually fucking stupid shit she's done with no excuses.
*Sarah.
Sarah had autism and PTSD, actually. I think somebody needs to learn what "retarded" means.
Except for maybe a reason to keep fighting even though you have none???
I don't see how those two things are related at all.
Vague.
Nope. Sarah couldn't survive period. Jane would better be off with Clementine.
Cloo knows her shit, son!.
You don't know that for sure, though. Even if she was/is, Sarah still shows signs of having decent common sense (most of the time :P), some awareness of how the world works despite Carlos's insistence that she doesn't, is implied to have some extra skill, and even demonstrates the ability to improvise under stress a few times. And you have to remember that Sarah went through the things she did in such a relatively short span of time that expecting her to immediately bounce back from something she has little to no experience is being unrealistic. It doesn't help that what happened at the observation deck was such a blatant unnecessary copout.
I'm a he actually, but thank you, I appreciate that!
I'm sorry but Jane been through something one time or another , you name it she's been through it.
If Carlos didn't treat Sarah like she was weak and trained her to be dependent on him and not teach her to defend herself, if a person can teach a 8yr old little girl like clem (season one) to shoot a gun they could've showed Sarah to do so too.
Do I think a severely mentally deficient child and a severely mentally deficient woman could be friends?
Sure, but Sarah should watch out that Jane doesn't get any other "genius" ideas that could put her fragile autism at risk.
No Jane is not stupid, maybe dumb,cowardly, and guilt riddled but not stupid
Uh...I think I get what you're referencing, but care to explain anyway?
Given what she's told after being slapped into getting to safety and what she does when trouble strikes again, I think it's safe to say that Sarah knows not to drag her feet anymore--especially when Jane is around.
You know what I'm referencing. Believe me.
That shouldn't be a problem for her.
Oh, my bad!
You don't mean the fact that she's an older chick who has trouble in social situations, can come off as creepy at first, has a tendency to ignore the feelings of others, shows symptoms of a personality disorder, suffers from PTSD due to the death of a family member, insists on having Clementine even if it cause her to go against her usual standards, and might even be unhealthily obsessed with her, do you?
...Also, dat ass.
says doesn't like sarah because shes retarded
cant spell sarah
No...... Jane gave up on her own sister who couldn't pull her own weight anymore, what makes you think she wants to relive that with Sarah?
Jane likes Clem as a friend/sister because Clem is capable and survival minded. Sarah is the opposite of that.
If Sarah lives i believe that she would run away back to the cabin believing that her father is still there, Giving her a unknown status.Her being in the later plots would ruining the story.
I don't know, I doubt she'd just up and leave the group or Clementine in particular. Especially to pursue something she almost certainly knows can't be real.
I sorta had a similar thought not too long ago, but I'm gonna keep those thoughts out of the conversation for the moment.
Now as for the "ruin" part, how so?
There's dialogue that she says that she wants to go back to the cabin because her father is there. Something like that.
I know. Clementine can tell her straight up that she saw him die and that she needs to face that. Given Sarah's previously established hidden depths, her broken explanation back in trailer, the brief conversation during the walk back and something about the way she says this gives off the vibe that she's intentionally trying to delude herself so she doesn't have to think about it.
No, but seriously though, how do you think having her present would ruin the last episode?
I take that back. She would make the splinting of the group interesting.
Would Mike and Bonnie leave still? Would Sarah defend Arvo from Kenny, seeing that she just lost her family,too?
Would Sarah be the one that discovers that Mike and Bonnie leaving, telling Clem, Then Clem get shot?
Would the Alone ending result in them going back to the Cabin where you have to decide on whether to let Sarah commit suicide or convince her to live.
Absolutely not. Jane was a loner that didn't want friends.
[reads comment]
“Some days I envy the dead.”
I think this is probably my favorite comment on this thread. Because you aren't biased towards one side or the other and it's somewhat accurate in almost every way. +1 for that one.
I don't know, for a loner who didn't want friends she sure warmed up to Luke real damn fast. It's a shame Luke didn't warm up to her though.
I don't discriminate.
I hate everyone equally...
Well, maybe some characters are more fun to hate.
Jane was a sociopath. If you didn't show her your worth, then you were dead weight to her.
Willing to bet eventually Clementine would get tired of Sarah...take her out somewhere..."Look at the flowers Sarah"
Fixed.
And then Sarah turns around with a gun pointed at Clementine and says.
"Not today."
no, Jane is survival of the fittest, Crawford type.
Sarah would drag her down with her.
Considering how Crawford had turned out for everyone associated with it in S1:EP4, well...
Huh. You're right, though I thought you were actually referring to an in-universe variation of this:
That is a number one example of how much of a waste/copout Sarah's canon death was.:
This situation, much like her Aggressive Categorism from Jane, would've been an interesting test of her moral character after losing Carlos, but apparently she would've been too much a game breaker or some bullshit. It will forever baffle as to how the same episode where Sarah is recovering from her breakdown and knowingly facing the possibility to being left/purged by Clementine/Jane is also the same episode to introduce Arvo(who can be seen as an evil counterpart or shadow archetype to her, with a similar appearance, demeanor, and motivation) as an antagonist--and they do NOTHING with this despite the obvious parallels and the subtle setup for something involving Sarah later.
That's heavy man. But I feel like that would've been a much more understandable choice given Clementine and Sarah's characters.
At first Clementine would want to stop it...but the options would be
Clementine chooses to look away.
Actually, it's not as cut and dry as that: Jane had kept Jaime going across mutiple states and she only left her because they got stuck in a situation where they were trapped on a rooftop with walkers on the way up and no way to escape besides hopping across to some nearby buildings. Jane couldn't convince Jaime to jump and obviously couldn't throw her, so she simply got very cold with her out of frustration and left her to get herself to safety. She then assumed the worst when Jaime didn't rendevouz with her after the fact and didn't have the guts to go back and try to find her, so she doesn't even know if Jaime actually died or not.
This is what makes her treatment of Sarah (and by extension, Clementine) seem all the more cruel: Sarah just had her breakdown hours ago, Clementine knew her longer than either of them knew Jane herself, and the way to safety was a few steps to the left, but Jane simply refused to think that they could actually save her and pressured Clementine into potentially leaving her. She was ironically just like Sarah at that point in that she putting her own feelings and psychological issues before the situation before her without truly taking Clementine's feelings into account. The fact that she insists that this is still true when Clementine saves Sarah, claims that Sarah is gonna destroy the group along with herself, and constantly compares her as being just like Jaime even posthumously shows that she simply couldn't comprehend that what she went through wasn't the only way that situation would play out, when the truth of the matter is that not all people react the same to trauma and she herself could've mutually helped Sarah recover if she just gave her a chance.