Yeah my Dad always yelled at me to never, ever, point a gun near or towards a person even if I was 100% sure the gun was empty (a great lesson to learn young as I would turn around with the practice gun in hand to see how I did). It's a Hell of a lot worse to point a gun at someone with what you believe to be faulty bullets in it.
I told the truth also. For most people it's either their bias towards Clementine or believing that it was indeed justified considering Eli a… morettacks you without warning. Could've gone either way with it myself, but in the end it really was just an accident.
No, when you pull a trigger on a gun, you can't call it an accident when a bullet comes out. Even if you thought they were faulty bullets. T… morehey'd been serving her well up until that point. She KNEW they COULD fire. Yet she had Javi force him into the chair, as she pulled the trigger again and again. That's second degree murder.
Initially I went with the knee-jerk reaction to back up Clementine but the more I thought about it, the more it wouldn't make sense for Javi. He isn't me, he doesn't know this abrasive young woman's backstory.
It just made more sense for me that Javi builds a trusting relationship with Clem over time and an incident like that one isn't the best foot to start on.
If anything I'm more upset at the fact Clem waves a loaded gun in a man's face, allegedly functional bullets or no. Has Lee taught you nothing?
Honestly, Clem shot the gun two times before she killed Eli. All two times the bullets obviously didn't work. The third time was unintentional (especially because she killed him) and I believe Clem didn't purposefully pull the trigger the third time. She made her point once and then Eli pissed her off and she accidentally pulled the trigger, thus killing him. Also, Eli had all the time in the world to tell her some of his bullets do work. It was Eli's fault. He had it coming.
See, I also chose to tell the truth, but I didn't see the other option as "letting her get away with manslaughter". If someone else did this… more, I'd probably lie & cover for them, as that kill, quite clearly, was an accident. Clementine had me at gunpoint before & was going to rob me by taking my van, so since the first moment we met, I was working towards getting rid of her & figured that ditching her could turn out helpful. It barely did, for some reason I wasn't given the option to get the hell out of Prescott without her, but that's what my intention was.
Saying that no one is going to buy their games for a specific reason like their action scenes is not entirely true. I personally don't play them for the action scenes, but I know a few people who do.
Then Telltale should realize the type of people that actually buy their games, if people want actionpacked Michael Bay games, why not buy Do… moreom, or Metal Gear Solid 5, Noone is gonna buy The Walking Dead for the amazing action sequences, its almost like theyre completely ignoring what the heck even made their games popular in the first place
No mr. Jameson. I said I could form my opinion on whether Clementine committed murder or if she didn't. I didn't need other people to do the thinking for me.
So you decide what's a matter up for discussion based solely on your perception and understanding of the situation? Sure. Okay. I'm not discussing then. It was an accident. Murder is intentional. She knowingly pulled the trigger of a gun that previously fired only defective bullets, everyone makes mistakes. This was a small one at that.
The guy tried to kill Javier and probably would've moved on Clementine next had he not been subdued. So yeah, fuck that guy. I'm actually really glad I got the chance to lie and say it was self defense, no one ever does that in shows when it would probably work. My choice really wasn't influenced by Clementine, but lying was pretty smart in a devious way. Cool moves Clem, cool moves.
I wouldn't sell out any of them. It wasn't intentional, and even if it had been it would still be arguably justifiable. He sent her to her death to make some money. Plus we don't know (at the time) how that group treats murder charges; I'm hardly going to send the one person who's helping me to her possible death.
Had it been a different character shooting a dealer in the face without confirming that all of the bullets in their gun is indeed fake, I do… moreubt most would have let them off the hook as easily for being so reckless.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it seems to go most of the time. Could you imagine if Duck, Ben, Becca, Nick, Sarah, Jane, or Gabe had done same thing?
"What does Clementine want?" instead of "What would Javi do?"
I feel like they did a good enough job making Clem her own character that doesn't need the protagonist or player constantly reassuring her and reinforcing her behavior. She's a big girl now, all alone in a world where actions have consequences Lee or the player can't save her from. She's also got plot armor forged by the gods so I highly doubt any of our choices will end her.
So you decide what's a matter up for discussion based solely on your perception and understanding of the situation? Sure. Okay. I'm not disc… moreussing then. It was an accident. Murder is intentional. She knowingly pulled the trigger of a gun that previously fired only defective bullets, everyone makes mistakes. This was a small one at that.
Yeah, in a way, i'm rather proud of Clementine that her first reaction was to lie, opposite to people who are disgusted by that behavior.
I mean, the guy is already dead. You can be sorry all you want, but it won't bring him back. There is really no point in telling everybody that you shot a guy, especially when you don't know those people. They really could do anything to her, so it's good that she lied in that situation.
That proves she is smart. However, pointing a gun exactly at his face and pulling the trigger few times proves she is dumb. So Telltale, can you explain, what the fuck exactly happened? Clem goes from full-retard to full-smartass?
The guy tried to kill Javier and probably would've moved on Clementine next had he not been subdued. So yeah, fuck that guy. I'm actually re… moreally glad I got the chance to lie and say it was self defense, no one ever does that in shows when it would probably work. My choice really wasn't influenced by Clementine, but lying was pretty smart in a devious way. Cool moves Clem, cool moves.
Exactly my thoughts. And Clementine stopped that truck for Javier so I figured I owed her one. I don't know what she was going for with the gun. Right, the bullets don't work, but the more times you pull the trigger the bigger chance you have of shooting someone. I'm thinking it was the heat of the moment, she was mad and wasn't thinking clearly. Though it is odd how she lost her cool so badly and all of the sudden she's scheming. I want to see more of what she's been through now, she's obviously seen some shit.
Yeah, in a way, i'm rather proud of Clementine that her first reaction was to lie, opposite to people who are disgusted by that behavior.
… more I mean, the guy is already dead. You can be sorry all you want, but it won't bring him back. There is really no point in telling everybody that you shot a guy, especially when you don't know those people. They really could do anything to her, so it's good that she lied in that situation.
That proves she is smart. However, pointing a gun exactly at his face and pulling the trigger few times proves she is dumb. So Telltale, can you explain, what the fuck exactly happened? Clem goes from full-retard to full-smartass?
I guess, I don't think you'll be hailed as the next coming of Nostradamus for predicting a lot of fans of the game would siding with the previous main character, especially when she's such a huge fan favorite and a reason some have returned. Not exactly a bold prediction, man.
It's most likely to do with bias towards Clementine.
Had it been a different character shooting a dealer in the face without confirming t… morehat all of the bullets in their gun is indeed fake, I doubt most would have let them off the hook as easily for being so reckless.
Not entirely. At least not with every single decision made by Clementine. Clementine did say and do some things that were objectively wrong. Now whether you stand and fight with Clementine or leave with your family, that is entirely subjective.
How is it biased? It's a simple opinion, I agree with her suggestions.
Staying to cover the family was the smarter thing to do to me inst… moreead of just risking anyone else getting shot. And after seeing the new frontier shoot a ten year old in the head, I agreed with her notion that they probably wouldn't bargain, so I didn't sell her out.
It's entirely subjective.
It's entirely subjective.
Not entirely. At least not with every single decision made by Clementine. Clementine did say and do some t… morehings that were objectively wrong. Now whether you stand and fight with Clementine or leave with your family, that is entirely subjective.
I understand you probably mean that shooting at his face is objectively wrong but I also think that's up for debate considering what the character did.
It's entirely subjective.
Not entirely. At least not with every single decision made by Clementine. Clementine did say and do some t… morehings that were objectively wrong. Now whether you stand and fight with Clementine or leave with your family, that is entirely subjective.
I shot that guy too, my reasoning was that if i let him live, he will tell everybody that i escaped. Which would be bad for me. He also said if it was up to him he would put a bullet in my brain - that's another reason.
By the way, after Eli failed at his assault thing, i chose the option to punch him.
The reason you'd call it murder is because it's one of the textbook definitions of murder. She should go to prison for it. If this were the wild west, in a town that cared about the law, Clementine WOULD hang.
This is the apocalypse. But communities like Prescott still aren't okay with people like Clementine murdering mostly innocent people for the hell of it.
Also, just because Javi CAN do worse, doesn't mean he always does. Clementine, regardless of ALL variables, is totally willing to murder, and then swiftly cover it up.
Eli not being an innocent lamb doesn't excuse his murder. He was kind of a dickhead, sure. But he still didn't deserve to die there. And Clementine murdered him.
To me it matters. The terminology that we use has a huge impact on how we think. And I think it's important to regard Clem as what she is. A stone cold murderer, who got away with her crimes.
The thing is, I don't see a reason to call it murder like she should hang for it or something, when it's the circumstances that matter in th… moreis situation. This is the apocalypse, no one follows rules anymore. People murder each other left and right. I mean, Javier can straight up kill a guy with his hands up at the start. And there were quite a lot of people who did that as well. What kind of a hypocrites would those people be if they would sell out Clementine when they just did worse a few minutes ago? Besides, she genuinely thought the bullets wouldn't work. So it was not like she was thinking "let's play russian roulette with this guy and see if I can kill him this way." The option to tell the truth even says "It was an accident!". Like I said, it was not intentional, plus Eli was not some innocent little lamb. And even though I was disturbed at that moment, I didn't think that telling the truth would help anyone in that scenario.
I get … [view original content]
I have already iterated it to you once before, so I don't find it necessary to go through it all again. However, there are objective moral values, meaning that there's a difference between right and wrong, which also concludes that there is objective rights and objective wrongs. Nevertheless, Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its collaborators probably didn't see what they did as wrong either, but it still doesn't mean that they were right in what they did.
But what's wrong is subjective.
It's easy to prove that it's subjective - just look at this topic. People see some things as wrong while others do not.
It was accidental, but it was still murder. Murder in the second degree has nothing to do with intentional or unintentional. Look at all the other times I've described what second degree murder is. I'm not going to define it again, unless you have some sort of question about it. If so, shoot. But otherwise, Clementine is a murderer.
You're just assuming now. I'm basing my opinion on what we actually see happening. And like I said, you can see by the shock on her face tha… moret she didn't expect that to happen. So it was an accident in my eyes. I'm not excusing what she did, accident or not, she was reckless, but I know she didn't intend to kill him in cold blood.
Yeah my Dad always yelled at me to never, ever, point a gun near or towards a person even if I was 100% sure the gun was empty (a great less… moreon to learn young as I would turn around with the practice gun in hand to see how I did). It's a Hell of a lot worse to point a gun at someone with what you believe to be faulty bullets in it.
Yeah, I never disagreed that what she did was wrong. Pointing a gun at anyone, even if it's not loaded, is dangerous. But I can sort of unde… morerstand why she did it considering the circumstances, even though pushing the trigger was a big risk from her part. But the fact that she didn't actually mean for that to happen (and because she was just trying to get working bullets) was a big factor on how I viewed the situation and how I dealt with it.
Yes, shooting and therefore killing Conrad is objectively wrong, that's what I was trying to say. What Conrad was doing is also wrong, taking a hostage (a child at that) at gunpoint and all.
I politely disagree.
I understand you probably mean that shooting at his face is objectively wrong but I also think that's up for debate considering what the character did.
Seriously? She clearly intended to pull the trigger on the fatal strike.
It was Eli's fault? Yeah, how dare he sit in front of Clementine as she threw her gun pointing tantrum. Eli was incapacitated, unable to do anything but watch in horror.
Honestly, Clem shot the gun two times before she killed Eli. All two times the bullets obviously didn't work. The third time was unintention… moreal (especially because she killed him) and I believe Clem didn't purposefully pull the trigger the third time. She made her point once and then Eli pissed her off and she accidentally pulled the trigger, thus killing him. Also, Eli had all the time in the world to tell her some of his bullets do work. It was Eli's fault. He had it coming.
I politely disagree, too.
Yes, shooting and therefore killing Conrad is objectively wrong, that's what I was trying to say. What Conrad was doing is also wrong, taking a hostage (a child at that) at gunpoint and all.
Comments
Because it's Clem.
Im surprised that you're surprised by the stats, What did you expect? We sell out Clementine?
Yeah my Dad always yelled at me to never, ever, point a gun near or towards a person even if I was 100% sure the gun was empty (a great lesson to learn young as I would turn around with the practice gun in hand to see how I did). It's a Hell of a lot worse to point a gun at someone with what you believe to be faulty bullets in it.
I did it because it was fairly justified.
She did not know it would fire hence why she fired in the first place.
Initially I went with the knee-jerk reaction to back up Clementine but the more I thought about it, the more it wouldn't make sense for Javi. He isn't me, he doesn't know this abrasive young woman's backstory.
It just made more sense for me that Javi builds a trusting relationship with Clem over time and an incident like that one isn't the best foot to start on.
If anything I'm more upset at the fact Clem waves a loaded gun in a man's face, allegedly functional bullets or no. Has Lee taught you nothing?
I really like your bio. I absolutely agree with it!
Honestly, Clem shot the gun two times before she killed Eli. All two times the bullets obviously didn't work. The third time was unintentional (especially because she killed him) and I believe Clem didn't purposefully pull the trigger the third time. She made her point once and then Eli pissed her off and she accidentally pulled the trigger, thus killing him. Also, Eli had all the time in the world to tell her some of his bullets do work. It was Eli's fault. He had it coming.
Clem can slaughter me any day of the week ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I assume you haven't played the previous seasons?
Saying that no one is going to buy their games for a specific reason like their action scenes is not entirely true. I personally don't play them for the action scenes, but I know a few people who do.
No, I have played both of them.
It goes to what I've said before of clementine practically controlling people's choices and gameplay.
If you see that as insults, you insult me. I always insult only in response to insults. Insults.
No mr. Jameson. I said I could form my opinion on whether Clementine committed murder or if she didn't. I didn't need other people to do the thinking for me.
Because
I wanted to
So you decide what's a matter up for discussion based solely on your perception and understanding of the situation? Sure. Okay. I'm not discussing then. It was an accident. Murder is intentional. She knowingly pulled the trigger of a gun that previously fired only defective bullets, everyone makes mistakes. This was a small one at that.
The guy tried to kill Javier and probably would've moved on Clementine next had he not been subdued. So yeah, fuck that guy. I'm actually really glad I got the chance to lie and say it was self defense, no one ever does that in shows when it would probably work. My choice really wasn't influenced by Clementine, but lying was pretty smart in a devious way. Cool moves Clem, cool moves.
I wouldn't sell out any of them. It wasn't intentional, and even if it had been it would still be arguably justifiable. He sent her to her death to make some money. Plus we don't know (at the time) how that group treats murder charges; I'm hardly going to send the one person who's helping me to her possible death.
I prefer loyalty over honesty anyway.
"What does Clementine want?" instead of "What would Javi do?"
I feel like they did a good enough job making Clem her own character that doesn't need the protagonist or player constantly reassuring her and reinforcing her behavior. She's a big girl now, all alone in a world where actions have consequences Lee or the player can't save her from. She's also got plot armor forged by the gods so I highly doubt any of our choices will end her.
My stance has change since I wrote to you.
Yeah, in a way, i'm rather proud of Clementine that her first reaction was to lie, opposite to people who are disgusted by that behavior.
I mean, the guy is already dead. You can be sorry all you want, but it won't bring him back. There is really no point in telling everybody that you shot a guy, especially when you don't know those people. They really could do anything to her, so it's good that she lied in that situation.
That proves she is smart. However, pointing a gun exactly at his face and pulling the trigger few times proves she is dumb. So Telltale, can you explain, what the fuck exactly happened? Clem goes from full-retard to full-smartass?
Exactly my thoughts. And Clementine stopped that truck for Javier so I figured I owed her one. I don't know what she was going for with the gun. Right, the bullets don't work, but the more times you pull the trigger the bigger chance you have of shooting someone. I'm thinking it was the heat of the moment, she was mad and wasn't thinking clearly. Though it is odd how she lost her cool so badly and all of the sudden she's scheming. I want to see more of what she's been through now, she's obviously seen some shit.
I guess, I don't think you'll be hailed as the next coming of Nostradamus for predicting a lot of fans of the game would siding with the previous main character, especially when she's such a huge fan favorite and a reason some have returned. Not exactly a bold prediction, man.
Clementine didn't know that it would fire, but she did know that it could fire. Therefore, Clementine still committed second degree murder.
Basically. thumbs up
Not entirely. At least not with every single decision made by Clementine. Clementine did say and do some things that were objectively wrong. Now whether you stand and fight with Clementine or leave with your family, that is entirely subjective.
But what's wrong is subjective.
It's easy to prove that it's subjective - just look at this topic. People see some things as wrong while others do not.
I politely disagree.
I understand you probably mean that shooting at his face is objectively wrong but I also think that's up for debate considering what the character did.
I shot that guy too, my reasoning was that if i let him live, he will tell everybody that i escaped. Which would be bad for me. He also said if it was up to him he would put a bullet in my brain - that's another reason.
By the way, after Eli failed at his assault thing, i chose the option to punch him.
So yeah, i'm the scumbag Javier as well.
Well, he is gonna be a crawler zombie then
The reason you'd call it murder is because it's one of the textbook definitions of murder. She should go to prison for it. If this were the wild west, in a town that cared about the law, Clementine WOULD hang.
This is the apocalypse. But communities like Prescott still aren't okay with people like Clementine murdering mostly innocent people for the hell of it.
Also, just because Javi CAN do worse, doesn't mean he always does. Clementine, regardless of ALL variables, is totally willing to murder, and then swiftly cover it up.
Eli not being an innocent lamb doesn't excuse his murder. He was kind of a dickhead, sure. But he still didn't deserve to die there. And Clementine murdered him.
To me it matters. The terminology that we use has a huge impact on how we think. And I think it's important to regard Clem as what she is. A stone cold murderer, who got away with her crimes.
I have already iterated it to you once before, so I don't find it necessary to go through it all again. However, there are objective moral values, meaning that there's a difference between right and wrong, which also concludes that there is objective rights and objective wrongs. Nevertheless, Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and its collaborators probably didn't see what they did as wrong either, but it still doesn't mean that they were right in what they did.
It was accidental, but it was still murder. Murder in the second degree has nothing to do with intentional or unintentional. Look at all the other times I've described what second degree murder is. I'm not going to define it again, unless you have some sort of question about it. If so, shoot. But otherwise, Clementine is a murderer.
Clem was told to never point a gun at something unless she wanted to kill it. She should have known.
It's still murder. And that's the distinction I wanted to make. I never said she intended to kill Eli. I said she murdered him. And she did.
I politely disagree, too.
Yes, shooting and therefore killing Conrad is objectively wrong, that's what I was trying to say. What Conrad was doing is also wrong, taking a hostage (a child at that) at gunpoint and all.
What.
Seriously? She clearly intended to pull the trigger on the fatal strike.
It was Eli's fault? Yeah, how dare he sit in front of Clementine as she threw her gun pointing tantrum. Eli was incapacitated, unable to do anything but watch in horror.
Yes, it's a complicated situation but unfortunately a decision needs to be made since silence isn't an option this time around.
Thanks for sharing your view, I understand your point.