Shouldn't Javier, Kate, Gabe and Mariana be just as experienced as Clementine?
Since Javier, Kate, Gabe and Mariana were alive during the start of the zombie apocalypse for 3 years shouldn't they be nearly as experienced as Clementine? Why does the game show them up as if they just came out of the world 3 years ago?
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Maybe because they were always on the run, avoiding zeds and not stumbling across people who know a trick or 2 for zeds?
javier is more capable then clementine. did u see his moves when he takes down walkers?
Physically speaking he is, as expected. But Clem is more skilled in combat than him.
yes, more skilled when he has handcuffs on lmao
Clem can take care of Eli, if Javi doesnt intervene.
I think because as already said, they are more on the run, avoiding walkers and such. Clementine on the other hand lives in the wild, sometimes with people, othertimes by herself, so it's more likely that Clementine needs to defend herself (and AJ) more often, what makes her more experienced in combat.
so can he
Nah.
Javier and Kate were busy scavenging for rolling papers and hemp growing supplies.
Mariana was too occupied listening to her music and praying she finds chocolate.
And Gabe was honing his lil' bitch skills, tirelessly nagging and complaining at every little thing.
She can fight off Eli on her own? How can Javi not intervene? Please show me.
I'm sticking with my suspended animation theory.
I should hope a male, who's former professional athlete, in his mid-late 20s would be more physically capable than a 13 year old girl, I hope he doesn't brag about that lmao
I wouldn't exactly say they should be just as experienced as Clementine. But they shouldn't act like your average family having a road trip together. It just feels out of place. This is why I think introducing new families this far into the apocalypse doesn't work anymore, because at this point, only the strongest survivors should exist. Kids like Gabe especially, should've died a long time ago. And I don't think it's believable that Javier managed to protect them for 4 years somehow, when the only thing he can say about the trailer full of supplies and a bed is "there's something funny about this place" instead of going "someone definitely lives here, let's go now." with attitudes like that, they all would've been killed a long time ago.
The main point that this series always trys to hammer home is that this new world changes people. Clem has undergone a steady but consistent change since finding her in the treehouse, Lee had to change and adapt a lot, Kenny obviously changes when the world starts getting to be too much horror, hell even Becca the unimportant 400 Days character is changing for the worse just by being safe at a diner with her sister.
But then we have this new cast.... oh boy.
Javier is still some goofy, lighthearted guy who can still somehow shoot and kill people without even batting an eye. Gabe acts like a teenager would in like the first month of the apocalypse; realistically he should be much more mature and hardened and should definitely not be moping about his dad every day after like 4 fucking years. Mariana expresses no horror or stress at the world around them, she is more concerned that Gabe acted like a brat and stormed off. Then she is killed off for "da shox". Kate is the most realistic because you can tell she is sort of losing hope, but even then her whole "will they won't they" relationship with Javi and the fact that she still thinks about David's personality issues 4 fucking years into the apocalypse. Plus they spent most of their time in a van moving around. Despite the shitty van somehow remaining operational after 4 years of no society, I refuse to believe that they were sheltered from horror during that time and as a result it seems wholly unrealistic that they don't have significantly more issues and stresses going on.
Seriously, look at how much the season 1 characters change in just the 3 month time skip. Look at how the comic characters cope with being separated from family and having to kill reanimated people/bandits nearly every day. They change, a lot. But no, let's give players a perfectly preserved little family with a cute little girl that will tug at our heartstrings before being blown away for shock value.
You know, we've been conditioned to look at people like Clementine and Rick's group as the end all be all of apocalyptic survival, but I've been toying with the idea that they're really just a bunch of idiots who are only strong enough to fight their way out of danger because their stupid selves are always walking into it. Honestly, if the world ended and I had a to choice to live like a Rick or a Javier, I'd be the Javier. Just avoid all the bullshit until things get better.
But plot demands drama, and the plot goes wherever Clementine goes, so here we are.
You'd be constantly driving around in the same van, somehow finding fuel to keep it fueled and food enough for four people to keep you consistently not dead without running into any trouble? That's not a survival expert, that's someone waiting for his first appearance in the plot lol
Javier is also an adult, Clem is arguably more skilled than most if not all of the characters in A New Frontier so far, but she is still a child
Yep, Clem is definitely one of, if not THE most skilled person out of all the people in A New Frontier so far, she just doesnt have the bodystrength or size to do some of the stuff that the adults do.
Which is also one of the things that I loved about season 2, having to make choices and trusting people based on the fact that you can easily be overpowered or even killed, even if youre more skilled than your opponent
Javier seems to be in an ok state for the ZA, but his family are absolute idiots. Can't say much for Mariana, since all she did was hide and then get killed off, but Gabe and Kate are just plain stupid.
TT hyped Kate up to be the reason why they survived this long in the ZA thanks to that notebook she writes in. However we never see her use it again after the first moment on ep. 1, plus how did it even help idk. Just stay away from the walkers lol, don't need a notebook for that. Then she proceeds to smoke weed and want to fuck around when supplies are running extremely low and times are desperate. This character trait will probably continue as the story goes on. Kate also fucking coughed will hiding, wtf? Which is how all the bullshit began anyway. She gets shot trying to go for a dead body and just turns into a useless character to care for after that. The constant damsel in distress now.
Gabe should not have the whiney teenager mindset after 4 years in the ZA. Unless they've been extremely sheltered for those years, he should have "manned up" ages ago. Death is all around them, that tends to harden people. Instead the kid can't even tell that a room has been lived in recently or what an argument looks like.
For what it's worth, over 50% chose to stay.
Yep, I also find it ridiculous that they have survived for 4 years, but when we see them ingame, they act like headless chickens, Mariana gets killed almost instantly, and Kate and Gabe fucking run through a HELL OF BULLETS to get to a dead body, like.. thats not how you fucking survive a zombie apocalypse, Clem knows that, but these people are obviously incompetent at everything they do, the only reason Javier is even remotely comparable to Clem is because he is an adult, with way more body mass and strength than her, she is WAY more skilled than Javier and his family, and probably than everyone in this game so far
Better that than someone who's constantly chin deep in shit water. My point is, you got your lions (Rick, Clementine) and you got your birds (Javi and co.). Lions go all in and have to fight their way out constantly, birds fly along minding their own business and avoid danger all together. So yes, I'd rather be the bird, or as you put it, the Season 3 character that eventually steals the spotlight.
I suppose it's if you do nothing or fail the options during the QTE
Kate also mentions she just uses the notebook for sketching.
Clementine only takes him down in the QTEs because Javier is taking a beat.
No, I understand you're saying, my post was kinda in jest. I just think its a bit unrealistic to do all of that for 4 years and experience no trouble, everybody is going to be after food and fuel.
Even though I chose to go, I knew that it wouldn't matter and they were going to get caught anyway. That trailer was there for a reason. My point is that Javier sometimes seems as oblivious as the kids. And that whole sequence annoyed me to no end because the whole time Javier was acting like all those supplies just magically got there, waiting for them to arrive and take it. And with him having that attitude, it probably gave some players a false sense of security. I mean, they are survivors, you'd assume they know what they're doing by now.
Honestly, I loved the whole atmosphere of 2, the soundtrack, ending songs, such a helpless feeling with her so young and being in a new group, not being the leader. It felt pretty dark and harrowing to me, much different tone then the first for me.
Yeah, the first 2 episodes was actually really great, the moment when you first arrive at the cabin, and almost everyone is against you, and thinks youre bit by a walker, and you get locked in the shed, never have I felt so helpless.
They should, but the writers do not care.
Eh. The argument could also be made that walkers may have been through and killed the people living there at some point. You find enough around.
That is half true.
While they spend the same time in ZA, Clem dealt with far worse challanges than Javi's group. (S1&2 Clem's hardships vs Javi's pit stops for supplies) Clem's ordeals made her much more skilled than Javi's group, who avoided zeds or shouted/bashed their heads off. They never got caught in the middle of a herd for instance.
Also it seems that it was a really long time since Javi met other survivors. Clem had many people taught her.
Definitely, if Javier had been Clems age, he would probably be fucked, he had a strong body already before the apocalypse started, plus he is an adult, so getting caught or toppled over is harder.
Clem is a kid, she doesnt have the bodystrength to go toe to toe with the walkers in many circumstances, for example, the difference in how Clem and Javier kills walkers, Javier just bashes their brains in, because he has the strength, and the height, Clem kicks them in the knee like Jane taught her, because they fall down, so she can easily kill them with a knife, Javier uses brute force, while Clem uses smarts and experience, Clem is probably one of the most experienced, if not the most experienced person in the entirety of A New Frontier so far, considering she has never really stayed at any specific community for too long, she has almost always been on the road
Exactly. Kate seemed to have some strategy about her and both Mariana and Gabe seemed to have gone through some training in order to know what to do if under attack and how to use a gun efficiently. So really, I think it is more a matter of having little experience with actual conflict, leaving them a bit underleveled.
But lions cant live as birds no matter how hard they try they have no choice but to fight and survive every day or die. Javi and co living in the world they do have no choose but to fight for there life's but the terrible writing say they haven't tell now, your telling be a bunch of lions manged to not have to fight or get into any trouble for 4 year that's just not realistic .
Javier seems just as capable as Clem, though Gabe and Mariana don't. That's because Javi has protected them the entire 4 years. Clem, on the other hand, has been alone for half those years and she's really only had one true protector; that was only for a couple of months. It makes sense that Clem is the most capable when it comes to survival.
There was this great quote by Comics Explained when he was talking about the comics and Rick's group in a video about Volume 20. Just imagine he's talking about Clementine or like Carver or Kenny and Jane.
It's important to note that people like Clementine are not the normal survivors. Javier is pretty tough. Not everyone, especially those who haven't really lost much since the beginning, living their van. Not every child is Carl or Clementine. I mean, Gabe seemed pretty competent. If you lived in a van for years, didn't really try to join a group, and hadn't lost anyone for that long, I think it's reasonable to think that Javier could have given them a chance to live normally.
Well, I think they are just as experienced, but obviously they haven't suffered the same kind of loss. Clementine is alone. She was orphaned very shortly after everything happened. Every care taker and group member she's ever been with is either dead or unknown. Javi and his group still have each other. It's a rarity in TWD-verse for a family unit like Javi's to still be intact. B/c of their different hardships Clementine's worldview, thus the way she interacts with survivors, is going to be a lot different than that of Javi and his family.
It's implied that they've been on the move almost for all 4 years of the outbreak. Anyway Javier seems pretty experienced and a competent survivor to me. Not once has he attempted to shoot and missed. Then there's Gabe, while he's no badass survivor he has a gun and we never saw Javi give him one, so I think it's safe to assume that Gabe and Mari were taught survival skills.
I think you've got the right idea.
Gabes competency went out the window for me when I got back to the junkyard and he was trapped with Kate in a tractor surrounded while the 10 year old had just been telling me how she hid. I don't follow the comics closely so I don't know who Gregory is, but doesn't Ezekiel have a functioning community? With plenty of people for different things, men experienced with weapons and fighting? People who can hunt? Scavenge? If that's the norm, I'm not sure one man in a van with 2 kids and their stepmother is exactly a good comparison. As far as we've been led to believe, he's been on the road in the van for 4 years, always managing to find food and fuel everyone else has missed, avoiding loss? I mean, hiding out has to end once you run out of food and fresh water.
Gabriel hid out, but what would have happened when his food and water ran out? Ricks group was on the road for, what, 6 months between season 2 and 3? He had more people to feed, but even if Javier had been able to find a similar amount of food and water, how long before they start hitting places that have already been cleared by the local survivors?