That scares the hell out of me. Last time I heard artistic integrity and game writer in the same sentence, it was Casey Hudson and his dopey lead writer defending the Mass Effect 3 endings after locking themselves in a room to come up with it.
I wonder if it's extreme enough false advertising to make a complaint to regulation boards. Probably not - but I expect you could fairly easily get a refund. I might try to do so.
It'd be one thing to just say "hey guys, I understand your concern but honestly the game is tailored in your head and you only lose the illu… moresion when you replay or go online. Sorry but it just takes a lot of resources and we do the best we can" except for the one tiny fact that they literally advertised wildly different Clementines and starting points.
It is false advertising and they are covering their asses for the fact that the game they market and the game they actually sell are completely different.
If if anybody wants it translated here you go:
Telltale Games has just released the third season of this video game series The Walking De… moread. As in the two parts before, the players' decisions have little impact on the story - although one will always feel that it is so. Telltale-Kreativchef Job Stauffer has explained to us why many of his games misunderstand.
The games of Telltale are considered as the general overhauls of classic adventure games from the 90s. Probably because the studio was founded in 2004 by former employees of Lucas Arts, the legendary forge of many such titles. But in talks with Telltales Kreativchef Jobstauffer quickly realizes that his colleagues and he is not looking for their inspiration in Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle, but in Hollywood.
Instead of riddles, the characters are at the center in Telltale games. It is about their development and about telling a story with them, without the players constan… [view original content]
I am really confused by everyone's anger. People are acting like Job said "Our fans are stupid" but that's not it. Yes, he said that most do… moren't understand that the game isn't about the major impacts of choices, ("most" not all of them) but honestly he isn't even that wrong.
I don't know, it just feels like everyone's actively searching for things to be mad about.
MY head and heart says the game and statement is in the garbage all TTs social media is saying the same, next response will be '' it was taken out of context,i was misquoted,'' they deserve all this backlash
Yeah I just google translated the whole thing and I see what your talking about. Sorry about that. I just wanted people to read it in English if they couldn't read it in German.
This is mistranslation. It translated "Handlung" as "action", which is wrong in this context. It meant to be "story" instead of that. Otherw… moreise, it doesn't make any sense. You can google translate that word and you'll see different ways you can translate that word and for some reason "action" is first.
that what @mistergamer 11 posted is just a copy paste of google translate or something like that. I wouldn't trust that as real translation of what Job said.
EDIT: so I'm not 100% sure if that translate is correct so all of what's down below could change. Just saying this in case the tanslation i… moresn't correct.
My stomach hurts from all the bullshit that was fed to me and shoved down my throat.
My stomach genuinely hurts. Can't believe what I just read. I mean, did I really just read that? Is that real? They know about the problems, they know about the backlash, they know about the fan's anger, and instead of fixing them, "THE STORY IS ABOUT YOUR HEART, blah blah, "find it in your heart to love the game" or whatever the hell it was. Don't care enough to scroll back up and quote it properly.
Seriously can't believe this. These pathetic excuses. Just like that tweet by staff a little while ago, saying they're not going to change the story because they're getting good reviews and that's all they care about. So Episode 3 isn't going to be better. Ugh, I love this damn game so much, I lo… [view original content]
EDIT: so I'm not 100% sure if that translate is correct so all of what's down below could change. Just saying this in case the tanslation i… moresn't correct.
My stomach hurts from all the bullshit that was fed to me and shoved down my throat.
My stomach genuinely hurts. Can't believe what I just read. I mean, did I really just read that? Is that real? They know about the problems, they know about the backlash, they know about the fan's anger, and instead of fixing them, "THE STORY IS ABOUT YOUR HEART, blah blah, "find it in your heart to love the game" or whatever the hell it was. Don't care enough to scroll back up and quote it properly.
Seriously can't believe this. These pathetic excuses. Just like that tweet by staff a little while ago, saying they're not going to change the story because they're getting good reviews and that's all they care about. So Episode 3 isn't going to be better. Ugh, I love this damn game so much, I lo… [view original content]
MY head and heart says the game and statement is in the garbage all TTs social media is saying the same, next response will be '' it was taken out of context,i was misquoted,'' they deserve all this backlash
I'm not going to post it because of the whole "don't call out specific staff members" and my post will get deleted. Just look up the Twitter of the lead writer for S3.
As @CarlGotKennyd explained, what Job told the interviewer is that players dive into the games for the story. The translation, which was courtesy of Google Translate, mistranslated that.
I'm not the best translator since none of those language are not my native languages, but I gave it a try since the first translation that was posted could be confusing at some points.
Wired: What will be most important for telling stories in video games in the future?
Job: That games should be categorized in genres like Comedy, Horror and etc. Video game industry has categorised games by their mechanics like Shooter, RPG, Racing, Platformer, RTS. That only defines how players interact in terms of mechanics. When you look at movies, tv, comics and books you'll see that they're categorising them by the way the story is being told. That's what is most important for them. It's important for me that video game industry will take it so seriously, that they will start to define genres the same way. We should stop taking stories as if they're secondary in the importance.
Wired: So, Games should be categorised differently, not just adventures?
Job: Not all games. Not all games need a story. This is big power and magic of interactive entertainment. Video game industry still has a lot of room to grow, mature, discover themselves and create new ways. We (Telltale) love Games and Storys, as we love Movies and comics. We overlap with all of it. Conventions must be redefined and rediscovered. And we are happy to be here during that.
Wired: In classic adventures you have to solve a lot of puzzles. You're distancing yourself from that. Why?
Job: We have grown up with Adventure games. Half of the studio has spent time for the majority of their life with them. A lot of people have previously worked at Lucas Arts and they created a pair of best adventure games of all time, like our co-founder Kevin Bruner who worked on Grim Fandango. The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue.
Wired: and what's the problem?
Job: People who grew up with this kind of games enjoy that, but best adventures are relationships between characters and storytelling. That's why we want to lower entry level for players, so that they can focus on the story. We focus ourselves on making choices instead of puzzles and logic riddles. And we want interactive experience to be more similar to movies and TV.
Wired: In Telltale adventure players must press same buttons rapidly during dangerous moments. However they can't have any influence on the result. So, interaction is an illusion. Why do you do that?
Job: At the beginning of the game we show a message. It says that it's an interactive story and it's tailored by your choices. Word tailored is very specific here. If 2 people buy the same suit, they still have different sizes. When we write interactive story, we know where it starts and where it should end. All in all we all have the same suit, but it's adjusted for each one.
Wired: If it's not about decision in your game, what about is it?
Job: Our games are more than an adventure, you get a lot out of roleplay. When players are in control of a protagonist and they interact with different characters, they have a possibility to define the character themselves. We allow them to play as an asshole or as a nice guy, but only to the limits that we allow them. It's a little bit like Dungeons & dragons. Someone tells you that you're a dwar from the nord and you have an axe. And in this conditions you can play the way you want.
**WIRED: ** How that shows in your games?
Job: In the Walking Dead you play as an afro-american history teacher in his mid-thirties who has to take care of a girl called Clementine. It's your decision what you want to teach her. Be it the value of a community, survival or being independant, it's your ideals that you give to non-playable character. And in 2nd season you play as this 9 year old girl in zombie apocalypse. And based on what you taught her in season 1st, you can play as her in 2nd season. That allows players to define a character the way you would play them.
Wired: So, the story doesn't really change. Only characterisation of the protagonists
Job: Yes, in season 3 of Walking Dead you play as a completely new character. And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 seasons, we will look at the choices that you made in previous episodes and we'll see how you defined Clementine. So, you meet character who you formed yourself through a roleplay. Each decisions had an impact how that person is after all these years. In that relationship each decision was important that you took.
WIRED: If fans are complaining that the decision they took and it didn't change the story, is that a false expectation?
Job: Sure, a lot of fans don't understand that games are not about what's on the monitor, but it's what is hapenning in their heads and hearts. In our games it's often about empathy. Not only in heroic stories, but in comedies you need empathy as well, so that you can identify what makes you laugh or feel. What drives us is games that makes you want games about relationships, empathy and hard decisions.
As @CarlGotKennyd explained, what Job told the interviewer is that players dive into the games for the story. The translation, which was courtesy of Google Translate, mistranslated that.
I know often people can read too much into developer statements and that can be frustrating—but that shouldn't mean we give a free pass to EVERY thing he says. This was a pretty direct, unambiguous statement by him that in his opinion fans who have an issue with a part of the game "don't understand it."
I didn't know you knew German, Flog!
Or are you judging what Job said based off the Google translation?
The quote comes as a response to people who aren't fully satisfied with the amount of choice and consequence in the games. It's not a genera… morel gnomic statement - it comes at the end of his specific explanation as to why the fans are not satisfied with the game.
The meaning is: 'Fans are not happy with this aspect of the game because they don't understand it'. That's a direct comment on the character of the fans.
I know often people can read too much into developer statements and that can be frustrating - but that shouldn't mean we give a free pass to EVERY thing he says. This was a pretty direct, unambiguous statement by him that in his opinion fans who have an issue with a part of the game 'don't understand it'.
Especially when his explanation basically comes down to 'they don't understand that they should be doing the work in characterisation and consequence not us'. Which is a pretty damn lazy thing for a developer to say to people who paid hard-earned money for their game.
What's the proper translation? Not trying to be a smart ass, but I genuinely want to know what the proper translation is, word by word.
… moreI would love for me to be proven wrong and for me to be mad for no reason. I'd be happy for this to happen. Prove me wrong!!
They basically asked him the same question in different ways throughout the interview lmao. "Choices not mattering" has always been a bit overblown by fans. Stauffer is right when he says that a lot of people don't get what Telltale is about imo. We can't all be playing competely different games. Anyway the problem with season 3 is the lack of interaction and lack of meaningful choices to be made.
Sure, there's been a bit of negativity a lot as of late (and rightly so), but to describe the forums as a disaster, is certainty a bit over the top. People are just coming to terms with some shitty news. It'll balance out soon.
The sentence should say: "That is why we want to lower the entry barriers for players and focus on the story."
I translated it wrong and @CarlGotKennyd said that action was the wrong translation and it should be story instead. I'm really sorry for this mistranslated part and I hope you guys can forgive me.
What's the proper translation? Not trying to be a smart ass, but I genuinely want to know what the proper translation is, word by word.
… moreI would love for me to be proven wrong and for me to be mad for no reason. I'd be happy for this to happen. Prove me wrong!!
It is not only people coming to terms with shitty news.
I used to come here to discuss the content of the episodes—and it was awesome; there would be some arguments over the characters, but there were plenty of discussions that allowed me to learn something. The fourth wall is non-existent at this point, because everybody is speaking about Telltale, either positively or negatively.
Nobody is acknowledging that the narrative exists and it's driving me nuts. Those who are discontent with the season are not the only ones with something on their mind.
Sure, there's been a bit of negativity a lot as of late (and rightly so), but to describe the forums as a disaster, is certainty a bit over the top. People are just coming to terms with some shitty news. It'll balance out soon.
The interview was just Job's typical talking points - "we make our games play like interactive movies to have a low barrier to entry", "story tailoring means changing small details like you would by tailoring a suit to fit you," etc, etc. As others said, I think some people are just looking for things to be mad at, at this point. I totally understand the completely valid and legit criticisms (1 hour episodes, low playtime as Clem, the flashbacks, etc), but I feel that people are just being nit picky over stuff like this interview, complaining about the menus, etc.
In regards to what he and Kevin said, they seem to be implying that the Season 1/2 choices will only result in super subtle tailoring that is technically there, but not on the level of altering the story or different dialogue. Instead, I think they are implying the tailoring will be there, but just through smaller things like different character animations or voicing as opposed to the usual amount of different voice lines or changed cut scenes. An example is how Clem has different scars depending on which flashback she had. Basically, I think they are implying that other previous choices will result in other minor variations of that scale.
The sentence should say: "That is why we want to lower the entry barriers for players and focus on the story."
I translated it wrong and… more @CarlGotKennyd said that action was the wrong translation and it should be story instead. I'm really sorry for this mistranslated part and I hope you guys can forgive me.
I think that's just the typical PR talk about emotions and not literal "every last choice matters", in the context of your single line you are referencing.
Well people on Steam did manage to get refunds because they finished some games earlier than "2-3 hour promised experience" from some story-based games.
But with this game's case is more than just that...
I wonder if it's extreme enough false advertising to make a complaint to regulation boards. Probably not - but I expect you could fairly easily get a refund. I might try to do so.
I've seen a lot of people getting mad about this mistranslation and it's all my fault. I mistranslated the word handlung to action instead of story and it makes the sentence sound like Telltale doesn't care about the story even though they really do. I really messed up.
Comments
It's a German interview. Why would there be an English version?
Does Job originally speak German?
That scares the hell out of me. Last time I heard artistic integrity and game writer in the same sentence, it was Casey Hudson and his dopey lead writer defending the Mass Effect 3 endings after locking themselves in a room to come up with it.
I wonder if it's extreme enough false advertising to make a complaint to regulation boards. Probably not - but I expect you could fairly easily get a refund. I might try to do so.
Season 3 isn't canon.
I can agree with that, unless they somehow turn it around, which by the sounds of this interview sound very slim.
Do you have some kind of deathwish, Telltale?
You have been among my favorite users this year.
You are truly a breath of fresh air.
MY head and heart says the game and statement is in the garbage all TTs social media is saying the same, next response will be '' it was taken out of context,i was misquoted,'' they deserve all this backlash
No, but I doubt they'd publish that. Interviews are usually translated.
Yeah I just google translated the whole thing and I see what your talking about. Sorry about that. I just wanted people to read it in English if they couldn't read it in German.
This community is going down-hill.
Everything is being blown out of proportion.
Any link for the tweet?
offers comforting hug
NOBODY plays TTgames for action...... UNREAL COMMENT
Job is being misinterpreted; they do not deserve this backlash.
I'm not going to post it because of the whole "don't call out specific staff members" and my post will get deleted. Just look up the Twitter of the lead writer for S3.
yes they always blame foreign translation don't they...
It's really not. If anything, it's Telltale that are going "down-hill".
Telltale literally has some kind of deathwish.
Kidding! Thanks for the offer, I'll take it. I appreciate it.
As @CarlGotKennyd explained, what Job told the interviewer is that players dive into the games for the story. The translation, which was courtesy of Google Translate, mistranslated that.
[removed]
It really is. It is a disaster.
Telltale is going down-hill as well, but we do not need to follow them.
There's probably a translation error in there somewhere.
I'm not the best translator since none of those language are not my native languages, but I gave it a try since the first translation that was posted could be confusing at some points.
Wired: What will be most important for telling stories in video games in the future?
Job: That games should be categorized in genres like Comedy, Horror and etc. Video game industry has categorised games by their mechanics like Shooter, RPG, Racing, Platformer, RTS. That only defines how players interact in terms of mechanics. When you look at movies, tv, comics and books you'll see that they're categorising them by the way the story is being told. That's what is most important for them. It's important for me that video game industry will take it so seriously, that they will start to define genres the same way. We should stop taking stories as if they're secondary in the importance.
Wired: So, Games should be categorised differently, not just adventures?
Job: Not all games. Not all games need a story. This is big power and magic of interactive entertainment. Video game industry still has a lot of room to grow, mature, discover themselves and create new ways. We (Telltale) love Games and Storys, as we love Movies and comics. We overlap with all of it. Conventions must be redefined and rediscovered. And we are happy to be here during that.
Wired: In classic adventures you have to solve a lot of puzzles. You're distancing yourself from that. Why?
Job: We have grown up with Adventure games. Half of the studio has spent time for the majority of their life with them. A lot of people have previously worked at Lucas Arts and they created a pair of best adventure games of all time, like our co-founder Kevin Bruner who worked on Grim Fandango. The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue.
Wired: and what's the problem?
Job: People who grew up with this kind of games enjoy that, but best adventures are relationships between characters and storytelling. That's why we want to lower entry level for players, so that they can focus on the story. We focus ourselves on making choices instead of puzzles and logic riddles. And we want interactive experience to be more similar to movies and TV.
Wired: In Telltale adventure players must press same buttons rapidly during dangerous moments. However they can't have any influence on the result. So, interaction is an illusion. Why do you do that?
Job: At the beginning of the game we show a message. It says that it's an interactive story and it's tailored by your choices. Word tailored is very specific here. If 2 people buy the same suit, they still have different sizes. When we write interactive story, we know where it starts and where it should end. All in all we all have the same suit, but it's adjusted for each one.
Wired: If it's not about decision in your game, what about is it?
Job: Our games are more than an adventure, you get a lot out of roleplay. When players are in control of a protagonist and they interact with different characters, they have a possibility to define the character themselves. We allow them to play as an asshole or as a nice guy, but only to the limits that we allow them. It's a little bit like Dungeons & dragons. Someone tells you that you're a dwar from the nord and you have an axe. And in this conditions you can play the way you want.
**WIRED: ** How that shows in your games?
Job: In the Walking Dead you play as an afro-american history teacher in his mid-thirties who has to take care of a girl called Clementine. It's your decision what you want to teach her. Be it the value of a community, survival or being independant, it's your ideals that you give to non-playable character. And in 2nd season you play as this 9 year old girl in zombie apocalypse. And based on what you taught her in season 1st, you can play as her in 2nd season. That allows players to define a character the way you would play them.
Wired: So, the story doesn't really change. Only characterisation of the protagonists
Job: Yes, in season 3 of Walking Dead you play as a completely new character. And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 seasons, we will look at the choices that you made in previous episodes and we'll see how you defined Clementine. So, you meet character who you formed yourself through a roleplay. Each decisions had an impact how that person is after all these years. In that relationship each decision was important that you took.
WIRED: If fans are complaining that the decision they took and it didn't change the story, is that a false expectation?
Job: Sure, a lot of fans don't understand that games are not about what's on the monitor, but it's what is hapenning in their heads and hearts. In our games it's often about empathy. Not only in heroic stories, but in comedies you need empathy as well, so that you can identify what makes you laugh or feel. What drives us is games that makes you want games about relationships, empathy and hard decisions.
What's the proper translation? Not trying to be a smart ass, but I genuinely want to know what the proper translation is, word by word.
I would love for me to be proven wrong and for me to be mad for no reason. I'd be happy for this to happen. Prove me wrong!!
I didn't know you knew German, Flog!
Or are you judging what Job said based off the Google translation?
Ask @CarlGotKennyd or @EpicMustacheGuy!
I do not know German.
They basically asked him the same question in different ways throughout the interview lmao. "Choices not mattering" has always been a bit overblown by fans. Stauffer is right when he says that a lot of people don't get what Telltale is about imo. We can't all be playing competely different games. Anyway the problem with season 3 is the lack of interaction and lack of meaningful choices to be made.
Sure, there's been a bit of negativity a lot as of late (and rightly so), but to describe the forums as a disaster, is certainty a bit over the top. People are just coming to terms with some shitty news. It'll balance out soon.
If it makes you feel better, they've been worse. This will sort out eventually.
The sentence should say: "That is why we want to lower the entry barriers for players and focus on the story."
I translated it wrong and @CarlGotKennyd said that action was the wrong translation and it should be story instead. I'm really sorry for this mistranslated part and I hope you guys can forgive me.
It is not only people coming to terms with shitty news.
I used to come here to discuss the content of the episodes—and it was awesome; there would be some arguments over the characters, but there were plenty of discussions that allowed me to learn something. The fourth wall is non-existent at this point, because everybody is speaking about Telltale, either positively or negatively.
Nobody is acknowledging that the narrative exists and it's driving me nuts. Those who are discontent with the season are not the only ones with something on their mind.
The interview was just Job's typical talking points - "we make our games play like interactive movies to have a low barrier to entry", "story tailoring means changing small details like you would by tailoring a suit to fit you," etc, etc. As others said, I think some people are just looking for things to be mad at, at this point. I totally understand the completely valid and legit criticisms (1 hour episodes, low playtime as Clem, the flashbacks, etc), but I feel that people are just being nit picky over stuff like this interview, complaining about the menus, etc.
In regards to what he and Kevin said, they seem to be implying that the Season 1/2 choices will only result in super subtle tailoring that is technically there, but not on the level of altering the story or different dialogue. Instead, I think they are implying the tailoring will be there, but just through smaller things like different character animations or voicing as opposed to the usual amount of different voice lines or changed cut scenes. An example is how Clem has different scars depending on which flashback she had. Basically, I think they are implying that other previous choices will result in other minor variations of that scale.
I do believe that history can serve as consolation.
Could you provide me with some links? I would love to become aware about previous disastrous periods of the forum.
You took the time to translate the whole interview! How could anybody become upset with you?
I think that's just the typical PR talk about emotions and not literal "every last choice matters", in the context of your single line you are referencing.
Well people on Steam did manage to get refunds because they finished some games earlier than "2-3 hour promised experience" from some story-based games.
But with this game's case is more than just that...
I've seen a lot of people getting mad about this mistranslation and it's all my fault. I mistranslated the word handlung to action instead of story and it makes the sentence sound like Telltale doesn't care about the story even though they really do. I really messed up.