I liked Kenny during Season 1, but Season 2 is where I turned on him. He treated Clementine like crap and I got sick of it. He just lost what made Kenny Kenny.
I don't think so. Old Kenny never would have taken the situation out on the kids, whether it was Duck or Clem. Season 2 Kenny lost that part of his character and became too aggressive. I didn't think he was Clem's protector throughout any of the situations except when the group turned on them in Episode 5. That's the only time he thought about her well-being. Even in the fight at the end, I don't entirely think he was fighting for Clem and AJ. I think he was fighting because he wanted to genuinely kill Jane. Maybe they were in the back of his head, but it was at that moment that I knew I could never look at him the same way again. It was a major step back in my opinion, but I understand that some people don't view it that way and that's cool.
I thought Jane was better at the end of season two, but I still chose to ditch both of them. Jane was selfish and while that compromised her ability to sympathize with people and really become part of any group, that still made her a survivor. Kenny's character in Season 1 was selfless, but Season 2 Kenny revolved around Sarita and he just became too aggressive with Clem for me.
No offense OP, but anyone who thinks that Jane is better than Kenny creeps me out.
Kenny was always selfless and always right.
Jane is literally the most selfish person in the whole of the Walking Dead game series.
Old Kenny never would have taken the situation out on the kids, whether it was Duck or Clem. Season 2 Kenny lost that part of his character and became too aggressive.
That's kind of an example of what I mean. Most of his screentime and influence on the plot felt like he was Flanderized to bank on the things most people remember about him.
Even in the fight at the end, I don't entirely think he was fighting for Clem and AJ. I think he was fighting because he wanted to genuinely kill Jane.
Well, he was gonna kill Jane because he truly thought she killed AJ, but granted.
I don't think so. Old Kenny never would have taken the situation out on the kids, whether it was Duck or Clem. Season 2 Kenny lost that part… more of his character and became too aggressive. I didn't think he was Clem's protector throughout any of the situations except when the group turned on them in Episode 5. That's the only time he thought about her well-being. Even in the fight at the end, I don't entirely think he was fighting for Clem and AJ. I think he was fighting because he wanted to genuinely kill Jane. Maybe they were in the back of his head, but it was at that moment that I knew I could never look at him the same way again. It was a major step back in my opinion, but I understand that some people don't view it that way and that's cool.
Actually, one thing I noticed about the fight between Jane and Kenny is that Jane escalated it. Before she sliced him and before she gouged Kenny's fucking eyes out(which I think anyone would kill the person who did that to them) all Kenny did was hold her against a fucking wall. I just don't get why people would consider Kenny a psychopath, when she escalated the fight.
Actually, one thing I noticed about the fight between Jane and Kenny is that Jane escalated it. Before she sliced him and before she gouged … moreKenny's fucking eyes out(which I think anyone would kill the person who did that to them) all Kenny did was hold her against a fucking wall. I just don't get why people would consider Kenny a psychopath, when she escalated the fight.
Aside from having what appears to be lipstick, I don't see what you mean. A lot of guys hate short hair on women, and she's shown as dirty looking on several occassions. She's got a nice practical hairstyle, it's not sexy at all.
In the context of a series where most of the characters are flawed but mostly sympathetic, I'd say yes; though admittedly, I should've speci… morefied compared to everyone else. Compare Jane's design to literally any other female character's in the first two seasons and you'll see what I mean.
I like how you completely missed the point of what I meant: basically, aside from the lesbian hair, Jane is easily the most conventionally attractive female character around that point. Every other female character had some sort of shortcoming or deformity in their physical appearance, but Jane is [almost] the full package: her face, huge hooters, and dat ass. Hell, she practically falls into the uncanny valley because of that given the comic-y art-style and expressive faces the other characters have, right down to having a very limited number of pencil "scratches".
Aside from having what appears to be lipstick, I don't see what you mean. A lot of guys hate short hair on women, and she's shown as dirty looking on several occassions. She's got a nice practical hairstyle, it's not sexy at all.
She was designed much later than the others.
Ever notice how much more expressive the Stranger's face is at the end of episode 5 compared to Lee's face?
And huge hooters and ass? I think she's still pretty scrawny. You think Christa, Rebecca, etc are deformed?
But if anything, her design is meant to signal her as being a new caretaker for Clem because she's so pretty? I guess.
I like how you completely missed the point of what I meant: basically, aside from the lesbian hair, Jane is easily the most conventionally a… morettractive female character around that point. Every other female character had some sort of shortcoming or deformity in their physical appearance, but Jane is [almost] the full package: her face, huge hooters, and dat ass. Hell, she practically falls into the uncanny valley because of that given the comic-y art-style and expressive faces the other characters have, right down to having a very limited number of pencil "scratches".
Mmm...probably so; she is a reused model in the Michonne DLC without much of an issue after all. Well, seeing how Arvo has concept art dating back quite a bit but Jane apparently doesn't may be a 2nd/3rd indicator that she really was added in later during the initial rewrites.
Ever notice how much more expressive the Stranger's face is at the end of episode 5 compared to Lee's face?
Not really, though it does seem to move and contort differently despite being based on Lee's model. Granted, his face in general had a lot of detail compared to most characters, but point taken.
And huge hooters and ass? I think she's still pretty scrawny.
And that just makes it even more obvious--she's thick in all the right places!
You think Christa, Rebecca, etc are deformed?
Yes...well, Rebecca at least. Have you seen them? Rebecca has one of the prettier faces, granted, but she's otherwise the most bizarrely unattractive female in the series. And Christa always looked a little off to me.
But if anything, her design is meant to signal her as being a new caretaker for Clem because she's so pretty? I guess.
I had to read this 5 times before I could take it seriously. Boy, I wonder
She was designed much later than the others.
Ever notice how much more expressive the Stranger's face is at the end of episode 5 compared … moreto Lee's face?
And huge hooters and ass? I think she's still pretty scrawny. You think Christa, Rebecca, etc are deformed?
But if anything, her design is meant to signal her as being a new caretaker for Clem because she's so pretty? I guess.
Telltale can't make pregnant women look good. Surely Rebecca is supposed to be attractive, Carver has the hots for her.
Christa. Hah. I thought she was a dude in the season 1 thumbnail. She looked a little better in the 16 months later segment. Too bad she had less.
We didn't see any concept art for the 400 days characters either, aside from the photos in-game. I don't know if "we haven't seen concept art of" is a good argument for anything.
But is it really a problem if she's attractive? I mean it's even pointed out by Bonnie that she's pretty.
I dunno. Maybe it would be cool if someone edited the Jane model to make it look grungier and scrawnier and also remove the lipstick.
She was designed much later than the others.
Mmm...probably so; she is a reused model in the Michonne DLC without much of an issue a… morefter all. Well, seeing how Arvo has concept art dating back quite a bit but Jane apparently doesn't may be a 2nd/3rd indicator that she really was added in later during the initial rewrites.
Ever notice how much more expressive the Stranger's face is at the end of episode 5 compared to Lee's face?
Not really, though it does seem to move and contort differently despite being based on Lee's model. Granted, his face in general had a lot of detail compared to most characters, but point taken.
And huge hooters and ass? I think she's still pretty scrawny.
And that just makes it even more obvious--she's thick in all the right places!
You think Christa, Rebecca, etc are deformed?
Yes...well, Rebecca at least. Have you seen them? Rebecca has one of the prettier faces, gran… [view original content]
Telltale can't make pregnant women look good. Surely Rebecca is supposed to be attractive, Carver has the hots for her.
Yeah, well Carver also had the hots for Clementine and he outright calls Rebecca "a strong woman among weak men," so I guess one positive thing to say about him is that he isn't shallow in that regard.
Christa. Hah. I thought she was a dude in the season 1 thumbnail. She looked a little better in the 16 months later segment. Too bad she had less.
My thoughts exactly.(Less what?)
We didn't see any concept art for the 400 days characters either, aside from the photos in-game. I don't know if "we haven't seen concept art of" is a good argument for anything.
True I guess. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen things of that nature regarding them, just not concept art. And I suppose the lack of concept art on Carver and Troy (though they are pre-production made models, mind you) could just as well indicate that there is none of them or that it just hasn't been released.
But is it really a problem if she's attractive? I mean it's even pointed out by Bonnie that she's pretty.
Not really. It's just that it adds to her overall "self-insert sue-ish" vibe and would just be incidental if she was a more sympathetic and better written character.
Though I will say that I am so happy that Bonnie isn't made out to just be "just jealous," as if I wouldn't've had enough reasons to hate Jane by that point anyway.
I dunno. Maybe it would be cool if someone edited the Jane model to make it look grungier and scrawnier and also remove the lipstick.
I guess it would make her look more appropriately unkempt for her title.
Telltale can't make pregnant women look good. Surely Rebecca is supposed to be attractive, Carver has the hots for her.
Christa. Hah. I th… moreought she was a dude in the season 1 thumbnail. She looked a little better in the 16 months later segment. Too bad she had less.
We didn't see any concept art for the 400 days characters either, aside from the photos in-game. I don't know if "we haven't seen concept art of" is a good argument for anything.
But is it really a problem if she's attractive? I mean it's even pointed out by Bonnie that she's pretty.
I dunno. Maybe it would be cool if someone edited the Jane model to make it look grungier and scrawnier and also remove the lipstick.
Yeah, well Carver also had the hots for Clementine
someone's been reading too much dirty fanfiction
and he outright calls Rebecca "a strong woman among weak men," so I guess one positive thing to say about him is that he isn't shallow in that regard.
oy, let's not get into a debate about Carver's pros and cons. It's all over the place. One scene he's a rough leader who does what he has to for his people, the next he's a mustache twirling bad guy.
Less what?
less screentime. wtf how did my sentence get cut off?
True I guess. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen things of that nature regarding them, just not concept art. And I suppose the lack of concept art on Carver and Troy (though they are pre-production made models, mind you) could just as well indicate that there is none of them or that it just hasn't been released.
Right, the Becca thing you showed me and the Carver one. I don't remember seeing any Troy pre-production models.
Funny thing, for a while I thought Troy and Johnny in the Ep 2 title card were early versions of Luke and Nick.
Not really. It's just that it adds to her overall "self-insert sue-ish" vibe and would just be incidental if she was a more sympathetic and better written character. Though I will say that I am so happy that Bonnie isn't made out to just be "just jealous," as if I wouldn't've had enough reasons to hate Jane by that point anyway.
self insert? I think you're reaching. she's just supposed to contrast Kenny. He's grizzled, bearded and older. So she's daintier and feminine.
Telltale can't make pregnant women look good. Surely Rebecca is supposed to be attractive, Carver has the hots for her.
Yeah, well C… morearver also had the hots for Clementine and he outright calls Rebecca "a strong woman among weak men," so I guess one positive thing to say about him is that he isn't shallow in that regard.
Christa. Hah. I thought she was a dude in the season 1 thumbnail. She looked a little better in the 16 months later segment. Too bad she had less.
My thoughts exactly.(Less what?)
We didn't see any concept art for the 400 days characters either, aside from the photos in-game. I don't know if "we haven't seen concept art of" is a good argument for anything.
True I guess. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen things of that nature regarding them, just not concept art. And I suppose the lack of concept art on Carver and Troy (though they are pre-production made models, mind you) could just as well i… [view original content]
Hey man, I'm just calling it how I see it, hyperbole or not, and Carver is definitely established with the traits that would lend to that idea. Granted, he's not the only character I'd describe that way, but you can definitely get that vibe off him.
oy, let's not get into a debate about Carver's pros and cons. It's all over the place. One scene he's a rough leader who does what he has to for his people, the next he's a mustache twirling bad guy.
Yeah, I'm sure he really was supposed to be a ruthless tyrant who truly believed he was in the right, but I figured him out literally the moment I saw him show at the Cabin: just another smug/egotistical Darwinist psychopath. So of course he'd be attracted to those who deems "strong," hence part of me saying he was flirting with Clementine.
less screentime. wtf how did my sentence get cut off?
No idea; maybe it highlighted the end of the sentence and it got deleted when you started typing the other part? Anyway, I heard she may show up in the future and while I still don't really think I'd call myself a fan of her despite not hating on her(or Lilly) like some apparently did, I do like the concept of what she and Omid were meant to do when they were introduced and agree that she doesn't always get the recognition she deserves.
Right, the Becca thing you showed me and the Carver one. I don't remember seeing any Troy pre-production models.
I meant that Troy was originally gonna be Carver himself after they rejected the Kenny pitch early on but they realized his model wouldn't quite work once they cast Micheal Madness, so they created two more models and used the second one in the game proper. Troy remained in the game as one of Carver's henchmen since he had already been made and showed up in the next segment of All That Remains.
Funny thing, for a while I thought Troy and Johnny in the Ep 2 title card were early versions of Luke and Nick.
That's actually an interesting comparison; good brainstorming there! When I first played the game, I was under the (possibly correct in a meta sense) assumption that Troy was probably meant to be an Evil Counterpart to Luke, seeing how he was mean to Clementine compared to the other Inner Circle Members and Guards, not to mention the fact that he had been seduced by Jane as well.
self insert? I think you're reaching. she's just supposed to contrast Kenny. He's grizzled, bearded and older. So she's daintier and feminine.
I mean that she feels like someone's moderately done OC shoehorned into an actual installment of a award-winning game series.
Her edgy too-cool-for-school antihero shtick,
the sudden huge boost in screentime, focus, and development at the expense of the other more plot relevant characters,
the fact that she's very based around the idea of being better than everyone else at almost everything, which often comes hand in hand with demonizing them or highlighting their flaws in comparison(Sarah is the most obvious about both, bizarrely enough)
the comparatively non-standard character design making her look different from the other female characters,
the tragic backstory that tries to justify her hardcore behavior,
the way she treats and interacts with certain characters(Clementine and Luke; Kenny and Sarah; Nick and Rebecca),
And the fact that she derails what was left of the story in favor of being shilled as Clementine's best friend(instead of Sarah) and Cool Big Sis(which was just one of the things she got from Luke), right down to throwing down with Kenny so she can have Clementine all to herself and have a happy ending.
Granted, it's somewhat humorous when you step back and think about it, but it's still very noticeable.
Yeah, well Carver also had the hots for Clementine
someone's been reading too much dirty fanfiction
and he outright calls Rebe… morecca "a strong woman among weak men," so I guess one positive thing to say about him is that he isn't shallow in that regard.
oy, let's not get into a debate about Carver's pros and cons. It's all over the place. One scene he's a rough leader who does what he has to for his people, the next he's a mustache twirling bad guy.
Less what?
less screentime. wtf how did my sentence get cut off?
True I guess. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen things of that nature regarding them, just not concept art. And I suppose the lack of concept art on Carver and Troy (though they are pre-production made models, mind you) could just as well indicate that there is none of them or that it just hasn't been released.
Right, the Becca thing you showed me and the Carver one. I don't remember seei… [view original content]
Actually, one thing I noticed about the fight between Jane and Kenny is that Jane escalated it. Before she sliced him and before she gouged … moreKenny's fucking eyes out(which I think anyone would kill the person who did that to them) all Kenny did was hold her against a fucking wall. I just don't get why people would consider Kenny a psychopath, when she escalated the fight.
So you missed the part when he had her against the wall his arm was trying to crush her throat? If Someone tried that on me..a knife to the gut is the least they are going to get.
Actually, one thing I noticed about the fight between Jane and Kenny is that Jane escalated it. Before she sliced him and before she gouged … moreKenny's fucking eyes out(which I think anyone would kill the person who did that to them) all Kenny did was hold her against a fucking wall. I just don't get why people would consider Kenny a psychopath, when she escalated the fight.
So you missed the part when he had her against the wall his arm was trying to crush her throat? If Someone tried that on me..a knife to the gut is the least they are going to get.
No...sorry I fixed it...I was just saying that Kenny had his arm on Jane's throat much like Lee did unto Kenny on the train. He deserved the knife to the guts in my opinion.
So you missed the part when he had her against the wall his arm was trying to crush her throat? If Someone tried that on me..a knife to the gut is the least they are going to get.
Sarah's fate was foreshadowed early on by Carlos, that's not fair to use it against Jane.
You're not exactly wrong about everything else, but I still think it's reaching a bit and I don't she's as bad as Molly was in season 1. Let's not pretend that Kenny didn't do a whole lot of plot-derailing as well.
someone's been reading too much dirty fanfiction
Hey man, I'm just calling it how I see it, hyperbole or not, and Carver is definite… morely established with the traits that would lend to that idea. Granted, he's not the only character I'd describe that way, but you can definitely get that vibe off him.
oy, let's not get into a debate about Carver's pros and cons. It's all over the place. One scene he's a rough leader who does what he has to for his people, the next he's a mustache twirling bad guy.
Yeah, I'm sure he really was supposed to be a ruthless tyrant who truly believed he was in the right, but I figured him out literally the moment I saw him show at the Cabin: just another smug/egotistical Darwinist psychopath. So of course he'd be attracted to those who deems "strong," hence part of me saying he was flirting with Clementine.
less screentime. wtf how did my sentence get cut off?
No idea; maybe it highli… [view original content]
Sarah's fate was foreshadowed early on by Carlos, that's not fair to use it against Jane.
Funny you should bring up Carlos considering, unlike Jane, he was right for the wrong reasons: Sarah "ceasing to function" was implied to be temporary as a natural response to trauma and the loss of her parents rather than merely being exposed to a messed up world that, let's be honest here, she'd already been out in for a decent amount of time and was willing to go back into herself. His intent was to prevent her from being potentially triggered or worse hurt by whatever danger is out there, but sheltering her only made more eager and left her a bit unprepared for the conga line of trauma that ensued because of Carver's influence.
And Jane was involved in both instances of Sarah being slaughtered, either pressuring Clementine into leaving her to be massacred or doing it herself after being guilt tripped into unsuccessfully cleaning up a mess she catalyzed--both times having no intention of helping her herself due to her prejudice.
You're not exactly wrong about everything else, but I still think it's reaching a bit and I don't she's as bad as Molly was in season 1.
At least Molly was a one-shot that had her own little arc going on offscreen that you could choose to be interested, was apparently meant to be comic-book-y and tone shifting on purpose, had relatively little effect on the plot aside from exposition and helping on one part of the bigger objective of the episode, and leaves at the end of that episode whether you didn't shoot her by accident or not. You were forced to spend a jarring overabundance of time with Jane despite having relatively little to do with the main plot and she came back to do it again despite the clearly intended sendoff.
Let's not pretend that Kenny didn't do a whole lot of plot-derailing as well.
Oh no, I actually made a post basically saying that in the Unpopular Opinions: Kenny derail the Season; Jane flat out aborted it.
Sarah's fate was foreshadowed early on by Carlos, that's not fair to use it against Jane.
You're not exactly wrong about everything else,… more but I still think it's reaching a bit and I don't she's as bad as Molly was in season 1. Let's not pretend that Kenny didn't do a whole lot of plot-derailing as well.
That's not fair. Zombies were literally nipping at their heels. Yeah, Jane wanted to leave the girl who wouldn't help herself. The girl who was much older than Clem but still acted like a friggin baby. You don't see Clem pullin that shit, even in season 1.
As for Molly, that just makes her feel even more out of place. She's there for some exposition, some stupid out-of-place wisecracks and then she leaves.
Jane has more time to grow on you.
Sarah's fate was foreshadowed early on by Carlos, that's not fair to use it against Jane.
Funny you should bring up Carlos consideri… moreng, unlike Jane, he was right for the wrong reasons: Sarah "ceasing to function" was implied to be temporary as a natural response to trauma and the loss of her parents rather than merely being exposed to a messed up world that, let's be honest here, she'd already been out in for a decent amount of time and was willing to go back into herself. His intent was to prevent her from being potentially triggered or worse hurt by whatever danger is out there, but sheltering her only made more eager and left her a bit unprepared for the conga line of trauma that ensued because of Carver's influence.
And Jane was involved in both instances of Sarah being slaughtered, either pressuring Clementine into leaving her to be massacred or doing it herself after being guilt tripped into unsuccessfully cleaning up a mess … [view original content]
The girl who was much older than Clem but still acted like a friggin baby.You don't see Clem pullin that shit, even in season 1.
She had a perfectly good reason for that, what with seeing her parent/guardian killed in front of her mere hours beforehand. Expecting her to just bounce back from that after days of being in harm's way and possibly having her PTSD caused by the death of her absent mom is a bit unrealistic; what she needed was support, time to deal with her loss, and a push in the right direction, which is what Clementine and Kenny got, with the latter two necessities being the result of slapping her. Hell, if Lee didn't take Chuck's advice and force Clementine to learn how to survive on her own before he was killed in front her, she'd likely end up the same way: scared, confused, traumatized, and alone with her feelings.
That's not fair. Zombies were literally nipping at their heels. Yeah, Jane wanted to leave the girl who wouldn't help herself. The girl who … morewas much older than Clem but still acted like a friggin baby. You don't see Clem pullin that shit, even in season 1.
As for Molly, that just makes her feel even more out of place. She's there for some exposition, some stupid out-of-place wisecracks and then she leaves.
Jane has more time to grow on you.
No one does always act "smart". We all do stupid things from time to time, but it doesn't mean we aren't smart. Kenny is smart, because he knows what to do, how to take responsibility. He is very.. temperamental (?) and strong emotions can push him over the line, but Kenny always calms down again and admits his mistakes. Season 2 shows that perfectly multiple times.
And I like him, thoroughly. Don't know how season 2 would influence that in any way.
Because he vented on Clem after Sarita's death? Who wouldn't do in that situation? The world of TWD is fuqed up and very brutal. Unforgiving. Then you have a passionate man in front of you who lost everything. Literally, >everything<. Sarita gave him new hope but then this hope is ripped apart from him once more. Imagine yourself in that situation.
Of course anger and desperation pull you to the dark side, but the important thing is that Kenny didn't mean what he said. He apologized and tried to help everyone afterwards. Took responsibility. Except for Arvo and Jane who were terrible waste of human DNA anyway.
Anyway, Clem's babysitter got killed and she handled it pretty well.
Did Sarah even see Carlos die really? I mean she was behind him and he got swarmed by zombies. I'm not saying it wasn't horrible. But you know it's not the same as actually seeing her father's face as he dies.
Bleh, these arguments are getting old. Obviously you don't like Jane but I do. That's not gonna change.
The girl who was much older than Clem but still acted like a friggin baby.You don't see Clem pullin that shit, even in season 1.
She… more had a perfectly good reason for that, what with seeing her parent/guardian killed in front of her mere hours beforehand. Expecting her to just bounce back from that after days of being in harm's way and possibly having her PTSD caused by the death of her absent mom is a bit unrealistic; what she needed was support, time to deal with her loss, and a push in the right direction, which is what Clementine and Kenny got, with the latter two necessities being the result of slapping her. Hell, if Lee didn't take Chuck's advice and force Clementine to learn how to survive on her own before he was killed in front her, she'd likely end up the same way: scared, confused, traumatized, and alone with her feelings.
No, I deliberately tried to dance around it a few times before deciding it was the easiest way to sum it up. Thanks, smartass!
Anyway, Clem's babysitter got killed and she handled it pretty well
Now that you mention it, did she realize that walker was Sandra? Cause I remember her saying something may have gotten Sandra a few nights ago and she asks Lee "Is it dead?" after he does some hammering, but I don't she ever openly put two and two together on that.
Anywho, that's a friendly babysitter that she heard cry out from a different location compared to a parent/guardian dying in front of her. Not quite the same.
Did Sarah even see Carlos die really? I mean she was behind him and he got swarmed by zombies.
Considering she was looking dead at him the whole time and only two walkers attacked, causing him and Sarah to scream their heads for a bit, I'd say yes.
Fun fact: According to unused voice clips, Carlos's screaming also startled Mike and caused a panic in addition to Tavia's men apparently trying to kill them; this is what Rebecca and Jane argue about at the beginning of the next episode. Sarah was originally supposed to channel Simba a bit before she took off.
But you know it's not the same as actually seeing her father's face as he dies.
Hence why I specified the possibility of a similar instance in lieu of what we got to help drive the comparison home.
Obviously you don't like Jane but I do. That's not gonna change.
days of being "In Harm's Way™"
you did not just do that
Anyway, Clem's babysitter got killed and she handled it pretty well.
Did… more Sarah even see Carlos die really? I mean she was behind him and he got swarmed by zombies. I'm not saying it wasn't horrible. But you know it's not the same as actually seeing her father's face as he dies.
Bleh, these arguments are getting old. Obviously you don't like Jane but I do. That's not gonna change.
You can disagree all you want but Kenny chooses not to help Lee go find Clementine in Episode 5 based on whether or not you sided with him on everything. "Just thinking about if it was me, what would you do?" A child is still a child right? Regardless of the differences he and lee have, he should be willing to help no matter what and he's not.
I'm almost a 100 percent certain that if you side with him on EVERYTHING except bashing larrys skull and dropping ben to his death, he will still side against you.
I too feel the same way. And I know I'm gonna get hate but I don't care??
I've never really liked Kenny, even after all the different choices ive made multiple times throughout seasons 1 and 2. I played the seasons multiple times, with different choices, and I still didn't end up liking Kenny. I remember all of the rumors that people thought the ending fight would be between Luke and Kenny, and I would've chosen Luke, but it did surprise me that it was Jane instead.
I personally liked Jane, because I see more than other people do. People just think of her as a killer and a "monster" but she was one of the only ones who actually had brains in that season. Since you reconnected with Kenny, he was just trying to get into trouble. (With carver, with Luke, with Jane...etc.) Jane was the smartest, and most experienced member of the group, and I'll admit that some of her choices are not what I would've done in that situation, but she was smart. She knew the best ways to kill walkers, the best weapons to use, and who to be in a group with.
I always thought Jane was like Molly, which is surprising since a lot of people liked Molly, but they were legit almost the same person, Jane is just more harsh, because she knows what is going to happen in the future.
I know she was harsh but she knew the way. I did not agree with the baby plan, or trying to get Kenny to show what he really is, but she came I great handy. Without her, BOTH Luke and Sarah most likely wouldve died (not that anyone would care if Sarah died, since for some stupid reason everyone hated her. Because ignorant people would think growing up in the apocolypse would be easy.) Without her, Clementine wouldn't know some of the best strategies to kill walkers, which you see payed off in A New Frontier.
I also didn't like the scene with Jane and Luke, and I thought that was one of the most stupidest decisions in the season, but her intelligence rose above that. (Even though what she did there wasn't very intelligent, especially the outcome of it)
Personally, Luke and Jane were my favorite characters, and I know A lot of people liked Kenny because he was "sentimental" and you've been with him for years, but I didn't feel that way. Jane made several good points, about how everyone you care about will eventually leave you, and it does seem harsh, and I don't really want to believe it, but she's right. And she taught clementine the importance of survival and being an indepenant person.
I'm not saying I hated Kenny to death, If I had to choose, I wouldn't want either to die.
Honestly, I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but it's kinda sad that everyone is arguing over their opinions, when everyone thinks differently, so what if someone chose Jane over Kenny? Or vice versa?
Just chill. (Even though I just wrote a paragraph about my opinions...opinions.)
No offense OP, but anyone who thinks that Jane is better than Kenny creeps me out.
Kenny was always selfless and always right.
Jane is literally the most selfish person in the whole of the Walking Dead game series.
Fun fact: According to unused voice clips, Carlos's screaming also startled Mike and caused a panic in addition to Tavia's men apparently trying to kill them; this is what Rebecca and Jane argue about at the beginning of the next episode. Sarah was originally supposed to channel Simba a bit before she took off.
Channel Simba? Yeah, that makes sense.
And unused voice clips during the escape from Howe's? Yeah, I've heard some of them. Seems to me like they really neutered the tension and panic of the scene by leaving them out. That's gotta rank up there in the top 5 dumbest decisions TellTale has made with the walking dead games , if you ask me.
you did not just do that
No, I deliberately tried to dance around it a few times before deciding it was the easiest way to sum it up… more. Thanks, smartass!
Anyway, Clem's babysitter got killed and she handled it pretty well
Now that you mention it, did she realize that walker was Sandra? Cause I remember her saying something may have gotten Sandra a few nights ago and she asks Lee "Is it dead?" after he does some hammering, but I don't she ever openly put two and two together on that.
Anywho, that's a friendly babysitter that she heard cry out from a different location compared to a parent/guardian dying in front of her. Not quite the same.
Did Sarah even see Carlos die really? I mean she was behind him and he got swarmed by zombies.
Considering she was looking dead at him the whole time and only two walkers attacked, causing him and Sarah to scream their heads for a bit, I'd say yes.
Fun fact: According to u… [view original content]
I'm almost a 100 percent certain that if you side with him on EVERYTHING except bashing larrys skull and dropping ben to his death, he will still side against you.
Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen and had a playthrough where that wasn't the case.
You can disagree all you want but Kenny chooses not to help Lee go find Clementine in Episode 5 based on whether or not you sided with him o… moren everything. "Just thinking about if it was me, what would you do?" A child is still a child right? Regardless of the differences he and lee have, he should be willing to help no matter what and he's not.
I'm almost a 100 percent certain that if you side with him on EVERYTHING except bashing larrys skull and dropping ben to his death, he will still side against you.
So glad you got that reference cause otherwise, I was gonna look feel old and stupid.
And unused voice clips during the escape from Howe's? Yeah, I've heard some of them. Seems to me like they really neutered the tension and panic of the scene by leaving them out. That's gotta rank up there in the top 5 dumbest decisions TellTale has made with the walking dead games , if you ask me.
If I'm being frank here, I think they did that to make up for the decreased prominence Sarah was originally gonna have by focusing on her reaction to have the achievement picture make sense and to set up the tension in the trailer in the next episode.
did she realize the walker was Sandra?
huh. good question.
Fun fact: According to unused voice clips, Carlos's screaming also … morestartled Mike and caused a panic in addition to Tavia's men apparently trying to kill them; this is what Rebecca and Jane argue about at the beginning of the next episode. Sarah was originally supposed to channel Simba a bit before she took off.
Channel Simba? Yeah, that makes sense.
And unused voice clips during the escape from Howe's? Yeah, I've heard some of them. Seems to me like they really neutered the tension and panic of the scene by leaving them out. That's gotta rank up there in the top 5 dumbest decisions TellTale has made with the walking dead games , if you ask me.
No offense OP, but anyone who thinks that Jane is better than Kenny creeps me out.
Kenny was always selfless and always right.
Jane is literally the most selfish person in the whole of the Walking Dead game series.
Comments
Actually, I'd argue he took the cliffnotes version of what made Kenny Kenny and turned it up to eleven.
I don't think so. Old Kenny never would have taken the situation out on the kids, whether it was Duck or Clem. Season 2 Kenny lost that part of his character and became too aggressive. I didn't think he was Clem's protector throughout any of the situations except when the group turned on them in Episode 5. That's the only time he thought about her well-being. Even in the fight at the end, I don't entirely think he was fighting for Clem and AJ. I think he was fighting because he wanted to genuinely kill Jane. Maybe they were in the back of his head, but it was at that moment that I knew I could never look at him the same way again. It was a major step back in my opinion, but I understand that some people don't view it that way and that's cool.
I thought Jane was better at the end of season two, but I still chose to ditch both of them. Jane was selfish and while that compromised her ability to sympathize with people and really become part of any group, that still made her a survivor. Kenny's character in Season 1 was selfless, but Season 2 Kenny revolved around Sarita and he just became too aggressive with Clem for me.
That's kind of an example of what I mean. Most of his screentime and influence on the plot felt like he was Flanderized to bank on the things most people remember about him.
Well, he was gonna kill Jane because he truly thought she killed AJ, but granted.
Actually, one thing I noticed about the fight between Jane and Kenny is that Jane escalated it. Before she sliced him and before she gouged Kenny's fucking eyes out(which I think anyone would kill the person who did that to them) all Kenny did was hold her against a fucking wall. I just don't get why people would consider Kenny a psychopath, when she escalated the fight.
You're damn right , I noticed that too. If someone sliced me with a knife I don't care if I am right or wrong , I will kill that son of a bitch
Aside from having what appears to be lipstick, I don't see what you mean. A lot of guys hate short hair on women, and she's shown as dirty looking on several occassions. She's got a nice practical hairstyle, it's not sexy at all.
I like how you completely missed the point of what I meant: basically, aside from the lesbian hair, Jane is easily the most conventionally attractive female character around that point. Every other female character had some sort of shortcoming or deformity in their physical appearance, but Jane is [almost] the full package: her face, huge hooters, and dat ass. Hell, she practically falls into the uncanny valley because of that given the comic-y art-style and expressive faces the other characters have, right down to having a very limited number of pencil "scratches".
She was designed much later than the others.
Ever notice how much more expressive the Stranger's face is at the end of episode 5 compared to Lee's face?
And huge hooters and ass? I think she's still pretty scrawny. You think Christa, Rebecca, etc are deformed?
But if anything, her design is meant to signal her as being a new caretaker for Clem because she's so pretty? I guess.
Mmm...probably so; she is a reused model in the Michonne DLC without much of an issue after all. Well, seeing how Arvo has concept art dating back quite a bit but Jane apparently doesn't may be a 2nd/3rd indicator that she really was added in later during the initial rewrites.
Not really, though it does seem to move and contort differently despite being based on Lee's model. Granted, his face in general had a lot of detail compared to most characters, but point taken.
And that just makes it even more obvious--she's thick in all the right places!
Yes...well, Rebecca at least. Have you seen them? Rebecca has one of the prettier faces, granted, but she's otherwise the most bizarrely unattractive female in the series. And Christa always looked a little off to me.
I had to read this 5 times before I could take it seriously.
Boy, I wonder
Telltale can't make pregnant women look good. Surely Rebecca is supposed to be attractive, Carver has the hots for her.
Christa. Hah. I thought she was a dude in the season 1 thumbnail. She looked a little better in the 16 months later segment. Too bad she had less.
We didn't see any concept art for the 400 days characters either, aside from the photos in-game. I don't know if "we haven't seen concept art of" is a good argument for anything.
But is it really a problem if she's attractive? I mean it's even pointed out by Bonnie that she's pretty.
I dunno. Maybe it would be cool if someone edited the Jane model to make it look grungier and scrawnier and also remove the lipstick.
Yeah, well Carver also had the hots for Clementine and he outright calls Rebecca "a strong woman among weak men," so I guess one positive thing to say about him is that he isn't shallow in that regard.
My thoughts exactly.(Less what?)
True I guess. Though I'm pretty sure I've seen things of that nature regarding them, just not concept art. And I suppose the lack of concept art on Carver and Troy (though they are pre-production made models, mind you) could just as well indicate that there is none of them or that it just hasn't been released.
Not really. It's just that it adds to her overall "self-insert sue-ish" vibe and would just be incidental if she was a more sympathetic and better written character.
Though I will say that I am so happy that Bonnie isn't made out to just be "just jealous," as if I wouldn't've had enough reasons to hate Jane by that point anyway.
I guess it would make her look more appropriately unkempt for her title.
someone's been reading too much dirty fanfiction
oy, let's not get into a debate about Carver's pros and cons. It's all over the place. One scene he's a rough leader who does what he has to for his people, the next he's a mustache twirling bad guy.
less screentime. wtf how did my sentence get cut off?
Right, the Becca thing you showed me and the Carver one. I don't remember seeing any Troy pre-production models.
Funny thing, for a while I thought Troy and Johnny in the Ep 2 title card were early versions of Luke and Nick.
self insert? I think you're reaching. she's just supposed to contrast Kenny. He's grizzled, bearded and older. So she's daintier and feminine.
Hey man, I'm just calling it how I see it, hyperbole or not, and Carver is definitely established with the traits that would lend to that idea. Granted, he's not the only character I'd describe that way, but you can definitely get that vibe off him.
Yeah, I'm sure he really was supposed to be a ruthless tyrant who truly believed he was in the right, but I figured him out literally the moment I saw him show at the Cabin: just another smug/egotistical Darwinist psychopath. So of course he'd be attracted to those who deems "strong," hence part of me saying he was flirting with Clementine.
No idea; maybe it highlighted the end of the sentence and it got deleted when you started typing the other part? Anyway, I heard she may show up in the future and while I still don't really think I'd call myself a fan of her despite not hating on her(or Lilly) like some apparently did, I do like the concept of what she and Omid were meant to do when they were introduced and agree that she doesn't always get the recognition she deserves.
I meant that Troy was originally gonna be Carver himself after they rejected the Kenny pitch early on but they realized his model wouldn't quite work once they cast Micheal Madness, so they created two more models and used the second one in the game proper. Troy remained in the game as one of Carver's henchmen since he had already been made and showed up in the next segment of All That Remains.
That's actually an interesting comparison; good brainstorming there! When I first played the game, I was under the (possibly correct in a meta sense) assumption that Troy was probably meant to be an Evil Counterpart to Luke, seeing how he was mean to Clementine compared to the other Inner Circle Members and Guards, not to mention the fact that he had been seduced by Jane as well.
I mean that she feels like someone's moderately done OC shoehorned into an actual installment of a award-winning game series.
Granted, it's somewhat humorous when you step back and think about it, but it's still very noticeable.
Aww the morbidly possessed girl is just paying her affectionate homage to him for not wearing a seatbelt and dying such a well-written death
So you missed the part when he had her against the wall his arm was trying to crush her throat? If Someone tried that on me..a knife to the gut is the least they are going to get.
Someone tried to slit your throat?
No...sorry I fixed it...I was just saying that Kenny had his arm on Jane's throat much like Lee did unto Kenny on the train. He deserved the knife to the guts in my opinion.
Id bet money that if Clem were the one being attacked at hershels farm instead of Shawn, he still would of ran away and not helped Lee.
Oh, is that what he was trying to do? Blame model swap videos, but I always thought he was going for the crowned jewels for reason.
Sarah's fate was foreshadowed early on by Carlos, that's not fair to use it against Jane.
You're not exactly wrong about everything else, but I still think it's reaching a bit and I don't she's as bad as Molly was in season 1. Let's not pretend that Kenny didn't do a whole lot of plot-derailing as well.
Funny you should bring up Carlos considering, unlike Jane, he was right for the wrong reasons: Sarah "ceasing to function" was implied to be temporary as a natural response to trauma and the loss of her parents rather than merely being exposed to a messed up world that, let's be honest here, she'd already been out in for a decent amount of time and was willing to go back into herself. His intent was to prevent her from being potentially triggered or worse hurt by whatever danger is out there, but sheltering her only made more eager and left her a bit unprepared for the conga line of trauma that ensued because of Carver's influence.
And Jane was involved in both instances of Sarah being slaughtered, either pressuring Clementine into leaving her to be massacred or doing it herself after being guilt tripped into unsuccessfully cleaning up a mess she catalyzed--both times having no intention of helping her herself due to her prejudice.
At least Molly was a one-shot that had her own little arc going on offscreen that you could choose to be interested, was apparently meant to be comic-book-y and tone shifting on purpose, had relatively little effect on the plot aside from exposition and helping on one part of the bigger objective of the episode, and leaves at the end of that episode whether you didn't shoot her by accident or not. You were forced to spend a jarring overabundance of time with Jane despite having relatively little to do with the main plot and she came back to do it again despite the clearly intended sendoff.
Oh no, I actually made a post basically saying that in the Unpopular Opinions: Kenny derail the Season; Jane flat out aborted it.
That's not fair. Zombies were literally nipping at their heels. Yeah, Jane wanted to leave the girl who wouldn't help herself. The girl who was much older than Clem but still acted like a friggin baby. You don't see Clem pullin that shit, even in season 1.
As for Molly, that just makes her feel even more out of place. She's there for some exposition, some stupid out-of-place wisecracks and then she leaves.
Jane has more time to grow on you.
She had a perfectly good reason for that, what with seeing her parent/guardian killed in front of her mere hours beforehand. Expecting her to just bounce back from that after days of being in harm's way and possibly having her PTSD caused by the death of her absent mom is a bit unrealistic; what she needed was support, time to deal with her loss, and a push in the right direction, which is what Clementine and Kenny got, with the latter two necessities being the result of slapping her. Hell, if Lee didn't take Chuck's advice and force Clementine to learn how to survive on her own before he was killed in front her, she'd likely end up the same way: scared, confused, traumatized, and alone with her feelings.
That'd be a dick move, but an interesting way of handling that scene nonetheless.
Because Kenny is among the top 3 of Telltale TWD-characters. Next to Lee and Clementine.
Well written, smart, likable and a good-hearted person.
I wouldn't exactly say "smart" per say and Season 2 kinda makes you squint at "likable" a bit, but I agree with the rest.
No one does always act "smart". We all do stupid things from time to time, but it doesn't mean we aren't smart. Kenny is smart, because he knows what to do, how to take responsibility. He is very.. temperamental (?) and strong emotions can push him over the line, but Kenny always calms down again and admits his mistakes. Season 2 shows that perfectly multiple times.
And I like him, thoroughly. Don't know how season 2 would influence that in any way.
Because he vented on Clem after Sarita's death? Who wouldn't do in that situation? The world of TWD is fuqed up and very brutal. Unforgiving. Then you have a passionate man in front of you who lost everything. Literally, >everything<. Sarita gave him new hope but then this hope is ripped apart from him once more. Imagine yourself in that situation.
Of course anger and desperation pull you to the dark side, but the important thing is that Kenny didn't mean what he said. He apologized and tried to help everyone afterwards. Took responsibility. Except for Arvo and Jane who were terrible waste of human DNA anyway.
you did not just do that
Anyway, Clem's babysitter got killed and she handled it pretty well.
Did Sarah even see Carlos die really? I mean she was behind him and he got swarmed by zombies. I'm not saying it wasn't horrible. But you know it's not the same as actually seeing her father's face as he dies.
Bleh, these arguments are getting old. Obviously you don't like Jane but I do. That's not gonna change.
I disagree with that. A child is a child and i think he would have behaved differently but of course that's your opinion which is fine
No, I deliberately tried to dance around it a few times before deciding it was the easiest way to sum it up. Thanks, smartass!
Now that you mention it, did she realize that walker was Sandra? Cause I remember her saying something may have gotten Sandra a few nights ago and she asks Lee "Is it dead?" after he does some hammering, but I don't she ever openly put two and two together on that.
Anywho, that's a friendly babysitter that she heard cry out from a different location compared to a parent/guardian dying in front of her. Not quite the same.
Considering she was looking dead at him the whole time and only two walkers attacked, causing him and Sarah to scream their heads for a bit, I'd say yes.
Fun fact: According to unused voice clips, Carlos's screaming also startled Mike and caused a panic in addition to Tavia's men apparently trying to kill them; this is what Rebecca and Jane argue about at the beginning of the next episode. Sarah was originally supposed to channel Simba a bit before she took off.
Hence why I specified the possibility of a similar instance in lieu of what we got to help drive the comparison home.
I concur.
You can disagree all you want but Kenny chooses not to help Lee go find Clementine in Episode 5 based on whether or not you sided with him on everything. "Just thinking about if it was me, what would you do?" A child is still a child right? Regardless of the differences he and lee have, he should be willing to help no matter what and he's not.
I'm almost a 100 percent certain that if you side with him on EVERYTHING except bashing larrys skull and dropping ben to his death, he will still side against you.
I too feel the same way. And I know I'm gonna get hate but I don't care??
I've never really liked Kenny, even after all the different choices ive made multiple times throughout seasons 1 and 2. I played the seasons multiple times, with different choices, and I still didn't end up liking Kenny. I remember all of the rumors that people thought the ending fight would be between Luke and Kenny, and I would've chosen Luke, but it did surprise me that it was Jane instead.
I personally liked Jane, because I see more than other people do. People just think of her as a killer and a "monster" but she was one of the only ones who actually had brains in that season. Since you reconnected with Kenny, he was just trying to get into trouble. (With carver, with Luke, with Jane...etc.) Jane was the smartest, and most experienced member of the group, and I'll admit that some of her choices are not what I would've done in that situation, but she was smart. She knew the best ways to kill walkers, the best weapons to use, and who to be in a group with.
I always thought Jane was like Molly, which is surprising since a lot of people liked Molly, but they were legit almost the same person, Jane is just more harsh, because she knows what is going to happen in the future.
I know she was harsh but she knew the way. I did not agree with the baby plan, or trying to get Kenny to show what he really is, but she came I great handy. Without her, BOTH Luke and Sarah most likely wouldve died (not that anyone would care if Sarah died, since for some stupid reason everyone hated her. Because ignorant people would think growing up in the apocolypse would be easy.) Without her, Clementine wouldn't know some of the best strategies to kill walkers, which you see payed off in A New Frontier.
I also didn't like the scene with Jane and Luke, and I thought that was one of the most stupidest decisions in the season, but her intelligence rose above that. (Even though what she did there wasn't very intelligent, especially the outcome of it)
Personally, Luke and Jane were my favorite characters, and I know A lot of people liked Kenny because he was "sentimental" and you've been with him for years, but I didn't feel that way. Jane made several good points, about how everyone you care about will eventually leave you, and it does seem harsh, and I don't really want to believe it, but she's right. And she taught clementine the importance of survival and being an indepenant person.
I'm not saying I hated Kenny to death, If I had to choose, I wouldn't want either to die.
Honestly, I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but it's kinda sad that everyone is arguing over their opinions, when everyone thinks differently, so what if someone chose Jane over Kenny? Or vice versa?
Just chill. (Even though I just wrote a paragraph about my opinions...opinions.)
Thank you for making this thread!
Anybody who believes this is on the verge of creeping me out.
The question that introduces these statistics was bugged, so the percentages that follow may very well be bugged as well.
huh. good question.
Channel Simba? Yeah, that makes sense.
And unused voice clips during the escape from Howe's? Yeah, I've heard some of them. Seems to me like they really neutered the tension and panic of the scene by leaving them out. That's gotta rank up there in the top 5 dumbest decisions TellTale has made with the walking dead games , if you ask me.
Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen and had a playthrough where that wasn't the case.
So glad you got that reference cause otherwise, I was gonna look feel old and stupid.
If I'm being frank here, I think they did that to make up for the decreased prominence Sarah was originally gonna have by focusing on her reaction to have the achievement picture make sense and to set up the tension in the trailer in the next episode.
Oh yeah tell me some bullshit that i can believe son