Would you kill/spare David?
Based on what we know so far, I'm wondering what would you do in a fight between Javi and David. If it comes to this decision, would you kill or not David? What would make you change your mind to do the opposite than now?
For me, I don't think I would kill him unless he goes in beast mode and won't even listen to Javi and at least try to have a peaceful conversation before the fight (I know it won't be easy if you romance with Kate, made me think about the similar discussion with Kenny when he had to stop the train). What are your opinions?
P.S.: I think my hand could slip a little bit to hit Gabe with a ricochet if he's around.
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I dunno, honestly I find it hard to care for David, Kate and Gabe, mostly because the game/Telltale tells me I should care because theyre family, having half the cast be predetermined relations with Javi has really soured this season for me
If I would kill David or not would honestly all depend on the situation, I would rather just leave him behind, after what he did
Hell no. Do I look like a kinslayer? David's my brother and nothing will make me put a bullet in him. You may call me foolish, but this is just my principles.
Fuck no, he is my brother. I sided with him all the time so he shouldn't have a good reason to kill me.
I want to save David too but if he tries to get clem and/or AJ killed?
Kill him cause he's an awful character and if I can slowly dwindle the cast of shitty characters, then I'd do it.
Plus, whining man-baby's that abandon their family cause of losing at batting-cages due to their massive superiority-complex and boo-hooing about why they're not man enough to face responsibility like a grown up. All the while guilt tripping their brother into taking the responsibility of raising someone else's child and then showing signs of jealousy cause God-forbid the woman started falling for the real man who was actually there for her and his two kids, who also aren't hers.
David is a big fat sissy bitchass.
If I got in a fight, I don't know I don't think I can he is my brother I can't dare to do that to him the family is red line I can't step on it even in a video game.
Fuck you and Kate.
S
Great and well thought-out retort. Now I need to collect my points and try to re-evaluate my entire stance on the issue cause of that comment.
Fuck off kid.
You already did.
Tell me when I should be laughing...
If Kate is gone I would not like to kill the last bit of family I have left. But Gabe can die for all I care. Bros before hoes.
Oh and with hoe I mean Gabe of course!
if he tries to kill me, mabye.
If they give me the chance, I'm killing David without a second thought.
If you kill him directly, then it would be selfish as fuck but if you kill him in self-defense, then I can understand.
Would most likely kill him, his character is really annoying in so many ways. They don't make characters like they did in season 1 or season 2.
The only thing that would make me kill David is if we found out that he actually got AJ killed.
If he can't accept what developed between Kate and Javi during all these years, while David didn't even try to search for his family.. then sorry. If he really wants to go full confrontation-mode, then I see no other choice than shooting him for good. I don't want to shoot him, but being a danger to literally everyone by behaving like a big baby with absolutely zero insight.. yeah, that is his own fault.
Even if your family member tries to kill you? That's fuqed up, but okay.
I'm glad someone can read between the lines. Kate only gets hatred cause her agency has lead her out of the arms of her unsupportive neglectful husband to someone who is actually taking the responsibly his brother was too pussy to do and into someone else's, essentially squashing her role as a frail subservient spouse who is entirely submissive (look how that character worked out for Sarita... ZZZ).
The funny thing is that though she's obviously toyed with the ideal of being with someone else, still hasn't gone through with it for the reason of still remaining loyal to an infantile man-child rather than a fucking ex-professional athlete who is far more responsible.
Yeah, David is such a garbage person and I really cannot understand how anyone can actually like him. I would understand it if he at least tried to do something good but just failed, like Ben. But no, David is just incompetent and harmful in so many ways.
My favorite solution would be:
Javi tells David to fuq off. David wanted to abandon his family before the world went to shit, while they didn't need him all these years on the road. David accepts that everything changed and that people moved on without him in their lives. Then he and Javi go their separate ways and move on with their respective lives.
But.. knowing Telltale and looking at the trailer, it most likely won't go like this and we probably need to kill him for the sake of the lives of many.
That would be so out of character for him to just ''accept that everything changed and that people moved on without him in their lives''. David is a character build on control and jealousy. He lost control of New fronter, by getting with Kate you all gave him a reason to, once again, enlish is jealousy.
The guy has always been jealous of Javi. Jealous of Javi's success when he was the one who teached him how to play baseball, jealous of his parent's ''preference'' for Javi when he was the one present to support them, and now, probably jealous of Javi's bond with Kate and Gabe...
One of the thing he liked to blame Javi for was his poor role as a family member. If Javi turns out be a better family man than him, he would be left with absolutely nothing in this world, which explains why he was so quick to say it'd be better if Javi left and the family stayed. Feel bad or not for him, but that's pretty much it... Take his family from him ? He would be left with no one to trust... ( Especially if Ava and Lingard are dead... just wow ). At least if Kate breaks up with him by herself, as she wants to, he wouldn't have the sentiment his brother betrayed him and took his family away from him... So he would have someone to hold on to.
I like David because he is an interesting character... He is morally grey , who has both good ( with AJ, I assume ) and bad intentions ( when he wanted to let Javi go...I think there was a bit of selfhisness in that, but that's a theory of mine ). For the latter, I would like to also remind everyone that if you don't betray him, he will say explicitly that he will ''not leave anyone behind'', which was a way for him to say Javi is now officiallly included in the little circle that is the family he has to protect and leave with... no matter what. Something which was not exactly the case before.
I believe he always ''loved'' Javi deep down though. Whether love or jealousy takes the wheel is in the players hands most of the time and I sure hope for the final as well.
At this point I'm not all that invested with David's character, and I don't really feel the brotherly connection he supposedly has with Javier.
If he does by any chance tries to kill Javier or come to harm him in his usual blind rage one more time, then he's no brother of Javier. I shouldn't have to feel sorry for a man who is trying to kill me simply because he can't control his anger.
I'd knock his ass out, leave him behind, and leave Gabe with him if he has a problem with it.
i would try to stop the fight and talk things thought like i did with Kenny in season 1 but if it got as bad as there being no way to stop him in the fight i will fight back but spare him as David is essentially the only character i like in A New frontier besides Conrad and Ava.
Thanks for your detailed reply. Yes, with Javi as a better person, he has nothing left. But isn't that his own damn fault? David did mistake, after mistake, after mistake. All is his own fault. He is a miserable husband, father and brother. It's about time that someone shows him he isn't the "boss" and that he can't bully his "little brother" like he used to.
Being jealous of people who are and do better than him, is not a justification for his destructive behavior.
Javi did grow up to be a good man during the apocalypse, while David did not. To my moral code, it doesn't mean much that he may loved Javi "deep down", if he treated everyone around him like garbage. For example, the AJ situation. I don't really care if he took care of AJ for a while. What he has done to Clem and AJ.. especially the one line where he literally said "We should've left him in the woods a week ago".. that's insane, horrible. Not something you can simply make up for with a few "not-so-bad" actions.
double post.
this is Kenny all over again as David s interactions are mostly Determinant to how you treated him in the episodes as if you dont try to leave with Kate he s alot more reasonable and you can even hug him in the scene where Joan puts them in the quarantine prison.
Yes?
Your last sentence is 100% true. When someone attacks (or even tries to kill) you, the background of this person does not matter at all. Family or not.
Huh. You know, this is an interesting assertion given that Thicker than Water seemingly implies that Gabe might have an inferiority complex.
Yeah, I really hope they make a good effort at subverted that next episode because it is a complaint I have.
I noticed that early on as well. Part of what makes her a complex character in her own right. For what relatively little attention's been given to her, that is.
Well I should be the one to thank you.. Sincerely. The thing is... I am not good at summerazing.
It's his fault, among other people's. I seriously don't think his marriage's failure is solely on him. David's need to be in control in everything including in his marriage might have damaged the relationship... but Kate's irresponsability and reluctance to make concessions as well. Extreme control vs Extreme freedom might, in some cases, help both to grow as a person, but none of them actually seemed to have gotten better. Instead of toning down David felt reassurance by going in a place where he could feel appreciated ( the millitary ) and instead of growing up Kate's just buried herself in selfishness and hypocrisy. I am not quite sure they both have a very good understanding of each other. David is unable to see she doesn't want him anymore when it's been years it's the case...( or maybe he doesn't want to see because of his own insecurities...who knows ? )... and Kate who doesn't seem to understand what's important for him and why...She has an incredible intuition, but when it comes to actual empathy she is either lacking or just thinks about herself first. ( Actively asks Javi and Gabe to leave David )
I don't disagree with you at all, he is not good when it comes to relationships. He went to the millitary for that exact reason. The best relationships he has are ones with subordinates : Ava, and collegue : Lingard. ''Responsabilities'' and everything that comes with it is extremely important to him : When Kate broke his millitary cups or something he got angry... When his own collegues betrayed him, and the people he lead were ready to watch him being executed without a word
, he lost his mind. And here, he hadn't done anything to deserve to be betrayed and executed by his people...did he ? The thing is, even if he probably isn't very good with relationships and emotions ( Ironic given he gives Javi shits for it ), he is quite good at his job. BUT even then at many instances he broke New frontier's rules to protect his family... Which mean that as important his job/place is, his family, including Javi, is more important.
''Fuck the New frontier's rule, my wife needs to get in to get medical help, fuck the New frontier leader's decision of throwing my brother out, I will personnaly make him a bag and join him outside, fuck politics I am going to deal with Badger and Max on my own, fuck the rope around my neck I don't trust Clint and Joan to get my family safe so just kill her Javi and so on. ''
Of course, it might fall under the ''I need to be the one making decisions'' category but what's important is to realise that all these decisions were made for selfless reasons. In each of them he chose family over responsabilities. He cares -deeply- for them; just as much as Javi does and he didn't see them for 4 years. Kate fell out of love and I don't blame her, but He, feels, deeply ( where does all these outburst would come from after all ? )
So he chose what he is not good at : brotherhood and marriage, over what he is actually good at : leading a community.
I wouldn't say he is a bad father though. He treats Gabe as a man who can take care of both he and himself which is exactly what the boy wants... but also, needs in order to grow. He wanted to take a ''break '' by choosing to go to the millitary over staying to raise his children ? It was for himself okay, but also for them ( Gabe, Mariana, Kate ) because he probably truly believed that some time away from each other will remind them of why they love each other. I'd say the 4 years apart from each other in the apocalypse did it for him, but not for Kate.
I understand why if you judge characters by your own moral code you would dislike him. There are valid reasons to dislike David and I am not denying it. Just know that Kate and Clementine as well are morally grey. If you dislike David you may not even realise how selfish, irresponsable and dramatic they both may be at times, but if you do like him... like I do... then it's quite different.
He did exactly what should have been done with Clementine ( in terms of actions at least, not words ). Kicking her out as she stole from the community was the right thing to do. Tripp as well seemed to think Clementine was trouble, for some reasons, and Tripp is someone Clem herself trusts. Clementine cannot just steal from the community that gave her food and probably tried to help AJ the best they could and get away with it. There's a limited amount of supplies, it was a selfish move and they can't afford to keep selfish people like that in their community. So... no.... I don't blame David. He even saved AJ by keeping him here so he wouldn't suffer, and Clem, potentially, who I assume did better on her own than while having to protect a baby.
When it comes to what he said however... that's to be expected from someone of hot temper like him but no, it's not justified at all. It's fine to blame Clementine for what she did, but AJ isn't the one who stole. I agree with you on that.
I admit though that words that are thrown by an angered David is in fact, for me, way less relevant than his actions and intentions. His actions and intentions weren't unjustified, they were understandable ( like when he killed Clint...why would he believe they would let his family leave safely ? ...nothing they've done before...now that's for sure and the smile on Joan's face either )... Even the actions done out of selfishness and anger were understandable. Every time he punched Javi it wasn't just because Javi didn't agree with him on something. David was drunk, jealous and morning his father when Javier showed up late...again. David didn't like the fact Javi, his brother, was ready to straight up leave him to a dangerous community ( basically leave him to die, take his family, and doom other communities )... I don't blame Javi for thinking of Kate and Gabe first but that's still rough for someone like David to be abandoned by his own family. That's also, somewhat an horrible thing to do to your brother. I am surprised he can potentially NOT punch you if you find the right words...
I don't even think David ever bullied anyone, he is hot tempered, he is even violent at times but it was for some serious reasons.
David did some shitty things... but then also did Javi ( determinantly ), Kate, Eleanor, Conrad, and Clementine. Don't you think Clementine shooting Javi because he wanted to help his brother in was insane and horrible ? I sure was surprised when it happened...I just gave her a hug to comfort her and she goes and try to shoot me. Javi has always known David ( even if their relationship wasn't the healthiest ) and, yet, I don't think David ever shot Javi... Clementine met him a few days ago and she already killed a man in front of him and almost shot him for helping his brother.
No one is perfect... Even Tripp is quite weird talking about wanting to date Eleanor while everyone's life is in danger.
I really like all the characters but yeah... I have seen you say a lot of things against David while simultaneously defending Kate at more than one occasion because to you, her intentions were the right ones. But David, Kate and Clem have done pretty alarming things because they thought it was the right thing to do at that moment. I wish you could see that while still having your own opinion about each of these characters.
Where Kenny at? He can salt lick David.
I'd like to just leave him behind the first chance I get, along with Gabe if he has a problem with it.
But if David fights me and ultimately trying to kill me, then no, I wouldn't spare him.
Nah, I'd spare him. David's got a temper and he can be fairly petty (the baseball scene), but so far, much of what he's done has come from a genuine belief in what's right and certainty not anything that warrants being killed.
Getting Kenny vibes from all this talk about just putting him down... he's Javier's brother guys.
I couldn't care less tbh.
Laying down at the side of the road, babe. Or perhaps crawling around somewhere, more like.
True. I choose to kill someone only if they give me no choice but to neutralize them or if they choose to throw me under the bus.
No I would spare him. I think if I gave me the choice to kill or spare him I would not kill David. And if so than this would be the first time I think I didn't kill someone givin the choice to.
Edit: other than the guy that you get to beat down on the farm in episode 2 of season 1.